How perfectly quaint and idiotic. Enforcment of Ramadan on a starving nation - what's next - headless marathon runs to Mecca?

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at October 12, 2005 6:04 PM

The United States Marine Corps has been "training" in the Horn of Africa for several years now. Yeah right. Entire Marine brigades don't "train" for years in an armpit like Djibouti. It's a full-on combat operation. Let them build a jihadist state in Somalia then see if Bush cuts and runs like Clinton did. Semper Fi.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at October 12, 2005 6:32 PM

Death threats have forced daily newspaper Jyllands-Posten to hire security guards to protect its employees, after printing twelve cartoons featuring the prophet Mohammed.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/91408.html

Thanks to Fjordman.

Posted by: DP111 at October 12, 2005 6:43 PM

Fjordman and DP111,

Your link is up at Dhimmi Watch.

Thanks!

Posted by: Eschwapp at October 12, 2005 7:04 PM

He said he and his followers, who include armed militiamen, would not rest until they had established an Islamic government in Somalia. He said he opposed efforts to install a Western-style democracy and called for the international community to leave Somalis alone to choose their own future.
***

Mark Bowden writes in Blackhawk Down, Penguin: 2000, that America had a responsibility to try to save Somalia. Of the local warlord, he writes:

Aidid's hardline forced the Clinton administration to take sides in what was nothing more than a civil war. We should have said no. Once a peacekeeping force starts shooting, it becomes part of the problem. Arresting Adid would most likely have given the Habr Gidr leader a more fervently motivated following, and would have elevated a two-bit Somali warlord to the status of an anti-imperialist hero in many parts of the world.

If the U.S. and the UN had tried to simply phase out their involvement in Somalia, critics all over the world would have accused Americans of leaving an important humanitarian task undone, and they would have been right.

That said, once we had committed ourselves to the effort, I believe the US should have seen the mission through even after the battle on Oct. 3--especially after the battle.

It was important to see the mission through once Task Force Ranger was committed. The lesson our retreat taught the world's terrorists and despots is that killing a few American soldiers, even at the cost of more than five hundred of your own fighters, is enough to spook Uncle Sam. Perhaps more important, however, is the lesson it sent to Americans, and in particular the men and women who serve. It's hard enough convincing Americans that events in some distant part of the world are worth jeopardizing American lives without being half-hearted about the intervention. Try rallying troops with the battle cry "We'll fight them on the beaches, we'll fight them on the cliffs...but we'll give up if they fight back." Military credibility is not just a mater of national pride. It lessens the chances of of war because enemies are less inclined to challenge America. [America's] only weakness is its will. Routing Adid would have, in the long run, saved American lives. (pp.355-56.)

Most of us understand that. However, most of our fellow citizens in the West do not. For those who do not, we direct them to Thucydides' "Melian Dialogue" for a clear perspective on the nature of power in the world:

http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com/2005/05/thucydides-melian-dialogue.html

But to return to Bowden and after all these years:

The victory was even more hollow for Somalia, although it is not clear even five years later how many people there understand that. The fight was a terrible mismatch. the Somali death toll was catastrophic.... Aidid died in 1996 without uniting Somalia under his rule, a victim of the factional fighting the UN had tried to resolve. His clan still struggles with rivals in Mogadishu, trapped in the same bloody, anarchic standoff. Clan leaders I spoke with in that destroyed city in the summer of 1997 seemed to think that the world was still watching their progress anxiously.... I told the Habr Gidr leaders who were hostile to our project that this would likely be their only chance to tell their side of the story, because there weren't journalists and scholars lined up at the border. The larger world has forgotten Somalia. The great ship of international goodwill has sailed. The bloody twists and turns of Somali clan politics no longer concern us.... Rightly or wrongly, they stand as an enduring symbol of Third World ingratitude and intractability, of the futility of trying to resolve local animosity with international muscle. They've effectively written themselves off the map. (pp. 333-34.)

But here they are again. Instead of being only a genocidal menace to each other, now Somalis are trying to involve themselves in a genocidal campaign against the modern world at large. due to a lack of resolve in the past, we now face an emboldened enemy we had beaten badly before we ran away from them. Can we ignore the threat?

Bowden continues:

The idea used to be that terrible countries were terrible because good, decent, innocent people were being oppressed by evil, thuggish leaders. Somalia has changed all that. Here you have a country where just about everybody is caught up in hatred and fighting. You stop and old lady on the street and ask her if she wants peace, and she'll say, yes, of course, I pray for it daily. All the things you'd expect her to say. Then ask if she'd be willing for her clan to share power with another in order to have that peace, and she'll say, "With those murderers and thieves? I'd die first." People in these countries...don't want peace. They want victory. They want power. Men, women, old and young. Somalia was the experience that taught us that people in these places bear much of the responsibility for things being the way they are. The hatred and killing continues because they want it to. Or because they don't want peace enough to stop it. (pp. 334-35.)

As the Modernist revolutionaries struggle toward greater accomplishments of equality and prosperity, we are dragging along the Third World primitive clinging to one foot, and on the other the Left dhimmi fascists who hope to pull everyone back into the dismal life of feudalism and barbarism. We must shake them loose, stomp them silly, and continue our course. Or join them. There is no possible compromise. Reason and Irrationality cannot co-exist any longer. We have to face reality as it is in the physical world of Humans. Anything less is suicidal.

Posted by: sonofwalker at October 12, 2005 8:18 PM

Everytime I watch Black Hawke Down I feel for the US servicemen who died for a bunch of Jihadi Muslims.

Somalia staves not because of drought, but because of the mis-management of Islam.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at October 12, 2005 8:51 PM

It's one of the most dangerous countries on the planet according to the Home Office in the UK. Where there's poverty and anarchy, you can be sure Al Qaida is around to fill the void.

Posted by: londongirl at October 13, 2005 1:51 AM

A cautionary example of what happens to all states into which Islam is insinuated by either the slow (non-violent) or fast (violent) jihad.

This isn't brain surgery. It is easy to spot the areas where Jihad is being done with guns, knives, and bombs. More difficult is ascertaining where and how the slow jihad is being done. Europeans and Australians are feeling the weight and discomfort of Islamization. Look around for examples of how Islam is moving in on us, here in the U.S. The movement is slow and almost imperceptible...

Posted by: epg at October 13, 2005 6:13 AM

No comment on that stupid comment about starving nation and reinforcing of Ramadan and few other childish comments that don’t challenge ones cognative ablities..!

some of you wrote an intellectually challenging view points and would like to add that US troops died there because American miss-management of the situation and the US general of taking sides, not that sadly painful chapter for lots ordinary Somali’s and American family is behind us.. the greatest threat is to wake up one morning and receiving a letter of video from OBL while he walking around the rough terrine of Somalia...!

If Bush and his mad fellows in the white house are really serous about facing OBL Movement instead of scaring everyone shitless for alternative political gains....they should have the courage and the sensibility to boost the current elected -powerless government and should have at least few thousand marines. Instead of keeping them to train in Djabouti.. what is the point for stationing them there..?

Are we waiting an other Taliban in Somali, I'm sure it's gonna happen unless some actions are taken...!

Anyone of you who believe OBL claims that he was part of the Black Hawk Down fiasco.. is misleading and has no two cents worth of common sense neither is totally not conversant about Somali in the early 90's, if OBL says to day that his evil followers are waging Jihad from there. I would be the first to believe him...!

Let's act before it's too late and I mean constructively like what Afghanistan..!

Londongirl, is 100% get it right…! So why wait….?

Posted by: Kahenn at October 14, 2005 2:31 PM