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You can see from this story that the blame will be placed on the failure of France's policy of integration, as well as on a firm response to the riots. In other words, France will be called upon to play the dhimmi. I suggest, on the contrary, that this has come about in part because of the failure of France's policy of non-integration. In Eurabia, Bat Ye'or details how, decades ago, European governments agreed not to press Muslim immigrants to assimilate. And now they're surprised that they have a huge class of people who are disaffected and don't feel as if they are truly French? Riot update from AFP, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
PARIS (AFP) - The French government was reeling after nearly a week of suburban rioting outside Paris spread to other areas around the capital, laying bare what observers said was the country's failure to address deep problems of poverty and immigration.Gangs of stone-throwing youths clashed with police and torched 180 cars overnight in several towns north and west of Paris in an escalation of dusk-to-dawn violence that has raged since last Thursday following the death of two teenagers in the northeast suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois.
Thirty-four people were arrested in the rampages, which have so shaken authorities that President Jacques Chirac came forward Wednesday to call for calm and vow to investigate the teens' deaths....
"A lack of dialogue and an escalation of disrespectful behaviour would lead to a dangerous situation," he said, adding that "there can be no area existing outside the law" in France....
They were triggered by the accidental electrocution of two youths, aged 15 and 17, who had scaled an electrical relay station's walls to escape a police identity check in the street.
Since then, tensions -- punctuated by the nighttime confrontations -- have increased in the low-rent, high-immigrant suburbs that surround Paris.
The firing of a police teargas grenade against a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois during clashes late Sunday also sparked rage in the suburb's large Muslim community.
The grievances have been further fuelled by hardline law-and-order policies implemented by Sarkozy, who is also leader of France's ruling UMP party....
Just one week before the riots exploded, he promised a "war without mercy" on violence and petty crime in the suburbs.
The opposition Socialist Party criticised Sarkozy's rhetoric, and accused the government of "creating an explosive situation" in the suburbs.
Observers saw the riots as a sign of the growing divisions in French society -- Muslim immigration, poverty, declining education standards in downtrodden areas and joblessness.
The left-leaning newspaper Liberation said successive governments had "broken their noses on the reality of the ghettos, often minimised and often forgotten in their priorities."
But in an interview with Le Parisien newspaper Wednesday, Sarkozy defended his tough policies by saying that some poor suburbs had come under "the rule of gangs, of drugs, of traffickers" and that his measures had brought down crime by eight per cent a year.
"The feeling of exclusion, illegal immigration and the high level of unemployment creates considerable problems," he said, asserting that "firmness, but also justice" was needed.
Suburbs such as Clichy-sous-Bois suffer from unemployment rates over twice the national average, which is already relatively high at around 10 percent....
A French sociologist, Michel Wieviorka, told AFP that such rampages were "the expression of desperation, of anger and a feeling of injustice."
They came about, he said, because "France doesn't know how to cope with the faltering of its republican model of integration."
Very well. But it is questionable whether putting the Socialists in power and granting Muslims in France some kind of economic benefit package will really solve the problem. It is, ultimately, one of identity, not of economics. But neither the French nor much of anyone else has the conceptual apparatus to be able to deal with such a thing.
Posted by Robert at November 2, 2005 3:24 PM
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It will be very interesting to see how this affects the French public discourse on Islam, if at all.
I for one will be keen to see if any politician dares to raise the spectre of mass expulsion.
PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH
Given that it has been amply demonstrated that Islam & Moslems are inherently incompatible with, and inimicable to, free and civilized society, Expulsion is the only course of action a free nation can take to preserve its culture and save its liberty.
Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 2, 2005 3:38 PM
...laying bare what observers said was the country's failure to address deep problems of poverty and immigration.
It is the muhammadan ideology that causes the "deep problems of poverty and immigration". There is more than 13 centuries of accumulated evidence to prove it. So how is the French government, any Western government, responsible for that?
...a sign of the growing divisions in French society -- Muslim immigration, poverty, declining education standards in downtrodden areas and joblessness.
Muhammadanism virtually defines poverty. It is an ideology of war, domination, slavery, misogyny, oppression, destruction of the arts and human heritage. It is poverty of mind, body, heart and soul. Downtrodden? By whom? By the muhammadans themselves. Joblessness? These people don't want jobs. They want power. They want death, the death of all who eschew their bankrupt ideology.
Perhaps Monsieur de Paris may be brought out of retirement.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at November 2, 2005 3:40 PM
"... deep problems of poverty ..."
-- AP article on Moslem riots
I was getting ahead of myself with the Expulsion thing.
Before that subject can even be broached, the French populace must first be made aware of the gravity of the situation.
And *that* cannot be done until erroneous Marxist analysis is cast aside for the gibberish that it is.
But to do *that* the French must get some independent thinkers on TF1 and the other stations.
PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH
France used to be the world capital of free thought.
Can the French drop their pride and socialist delusions long enough to reassert themselves?
Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at November 2, 2005 3:46 PM
come on libs, we all know whose fault this is...
It's The Jews fault!! Right? I mean these muslims feel unassimilated because of the brutal way Israel treats the peaceful people of Palestine....Oh, wait no. Hmmm, I guess its hard to blame the jews for this one. But, you know the libs will find a way.
Seriously though, when I hear this I think that those French capitualting cowards are finally beginning to taste what we have been predicting for a while. That, massive muslim immigration threatens to destroy civilized Europe.
Perhaps these riots are the result of a tough response to riots???!!! SO, the citizens of France should allow a largely foreign and alien group to take over large sections of their country, and should be allowed to riot with no police response. Yes, yes, thats the solution.
Can we ethnically cleanse our lands of liberals who conspire to protect the forces of darkness??Please??
at November 2, 2005 3:46 PM
OT: but too good to be true?
2 million ethnic Muslims adopted baptism in Russia
The number of ethnic Muslims in Russia who adopted Christianity is 2 million, while the number of the Orthodox who have been converted to Islam is only 2,5 thousand, stated Roman Silantyev, executive secretary of the Inter-religious Council in Russia.or instance, he says, as a result of what happened in Beslan, the proportion of Muslims in North Ossetia has decreased at least by 30%, while in Beslan itself, where Muslims had comprised from 30 to 40% of the population, their number has decreased at least by half.
‘As even Muslim sources confirm, after each terrorist action, thousands and may be even dozens of thousands of ethnic Muslims adopt baptism’, Silantyev stated.
at November 2, 2005 3:53 PM
"The number of ethnic Muslims in Russia who adopted Christianity is 2 million, while the number of the Orthodox who have been converted to Islam is only 2,500."
-- Roman Silantyev, Executive Secretary of the Inter-Religious Council in Russia.
According to God and the Sunnah, that's 2 million executions left to be carried out.
Who will be the Good Active Moslem to do this task? Must he use a thermonuclear device to clean up this unholy mess?
Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at November 2, 2005 4:05 PM
Thirty-four people were arrested in the rampages...
Um, we have a riot here in Toledo that lasts a few hours and we arrest 114 people. The French have riots for six days and have only arrested 34?????
Posted by: Terrahawk at November 2, 2005 4:05 PM
The very best economic benefit package the French could ever assemble would be plane tickets and storage shipping to destinations that do not include France.
Simple, direct and the French can continue to do what they do best - buy their way out of trouble without firing a shot.
Posted by: Quantum Infidel at November 2, 2005 4:09 PM
Um, we have a riot here in Toledo that lasts a few hours and we arrest 114 people. The French have riots for six days and have only arrested 34?????
yes, but the 34 rioters were given a very stern talking-to. And they were treated with gentle compassion so as not to make them feel disenfranchised by the French legal system!
see? it's all good.
Posted by: stevezilla at November 2, 2005 4:23 PM
And in this BBC story, like the BBC stories on the recent riots in Birmingham, one is hard pressed to figure out what is going on.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399510.stm
The Muslim identity of the rioters is hardly acknowledged. And the impetus for the riots is vaguely described. But, it is clear that something to do with a mosque really got things going. And, as I recall, an incident involving a mosque was a part of the Birmingham story as well.
Can't European readers, or any reader, see the obvious relationship between mosques and violence in the streets? From Pakistan, to India, to Afganistan, to Iraq, to London, to Paris, to Palestine: why are mosques, (what happens in them, what people imagines happen to them, or whatever) so closely associated with horrible violence? Isn't the relationship between ideas, namely, how Muslims think of mosques and Islam, and violence, utterly obvious to anyone of even mild intelligence?
Posted by: JTF at November 2, 2005 4:34 PM
"I suggest, on the contrary, that this has come about in part because of the failure of France's policy of non-integration."
-- posted by Robert
It's a bit surprising to see Robert Spencer write this, because Moslems -- by order of God and the Holy Prophet (pbuh) -- do not integrate whatever the plan.
As I sit in my office tower on this sunny day, located in one of America's wealthier suburbs (I'd guess top 100 in avg income nationally), I look down upon Section 8 housing, good looking buildings right next to condo complexes. As mandated by our socialist federal gov't in the form of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and as administered by my socialist state government.
Up and down the sidewalk stomp the Moslem Men, --apparently unhappy with the the free healthcare and free housing and free money the infidel gives him every month -- scowling as his women walk in their burkas several steps behind. Peace and blessings be upon them.
The only difference with America's Moslem integration strategy is that they spread 'em out, thereby making it harder for them to whip themselves into a anger-frenzy hot enough to fuel a religious riot.
PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH
America's "disperse the Moslems" plan may be the death of us as a free nation, cuz we will not have experienced the large religious riots needed to awake us from our infidel slumber.
PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH
Oh, I forgot that OBM has published plans to kill 4 million American infidels, half of them children if feasible, via nuclear blasts in a yet-to-be disclosed set of American cities.
That'll awaken the slumbering infidel, alright. If it doesn't vaporize or irradiate him.
Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at November 2, 2005 4:35 PM
This latest Islamoganza started because 4 boys trespassed into a power substation and 3 were electrocuted. For this, the infidels must pay.
Actually, maybe there is a pattern here. The infidels are controlling electric power against the will of Allah. In Iraq and Afghanistan the power grid is constantly down because the jihadists keep tearing it down. For some reason, they seem to want everyone to live as if it is the 7th Century A.D.
Posted by: special_guest at November 2, 2005 4:56 PM
Hi geekpunk, you seem like a pretty brainy fellow. Zieg Heil, M*****F***er!
Posted by: special_guest at November 2, 2005 4:58 PM
On an NPR station I heard a very smooth-talking Muslim from Holland, like Hirsi Ali only in that she is, apparently, also a member of the Dutch Parliament, speak about how there is "fear on both sides" -- Dutch and Muslim -- and that Muslims who feel problems of "identity" embrace "Islamism" because, she said, they simply cannot go back to Turkey or Morocco (why not?) because they are now "Dutch." In what sense, exactly, are they Dutch? What is it about the Dutch laws, customs, manners, history, do they comprehend, and fully identify with? Anything? Or is their "Dutchness" merely a matter of where they are, geographic happenstance and then also a matter of knowing Dutch, or possibly a bastardized form of it, which will not do as a definition of "Dutchness" that should satisfy any of the Dutch themselves, even if at one time it seemed to?
She did not, this plausible sounding lady, who spoke excellent English, think that anything need be done about Islam, or Muslims, other than to better "integrate" him into society, and not force them to choose between being "Dutch" and being "Muslim." If that requires some changes, those changes obviously cannot be made in Islam, that most rigid of religions, with its immutable texts not subject to interpretation for at least a thousand years, and therefore, of course, there will have to be changes on the Dutch side, on what it means to be Dutch, and how pliantly willing those "other" Dutch, the non-Muslim Dutch, will be to change what, after all, unlike Islam, can be changed -- Western laws, Western ways.
And no doubt that smooth-talking lady with her false analogies has herself benefited from a Dutch education that was intended to make her, not a cleverer apologist for Islam, but a more thoroughly integrated member of Dutch, i.e. Western, Infidel, society. It hasn't worked out that way. And if it did not for her, no doubt she welcomes attempts to "integrate" Muslims that will merely make them more expert at using the local language (the better to deceive you with, my dear) and learning all sorts of other things (how to pick up Infidel women, how to exploit the Dutch welfare state, as elsewhere in Europe the local Muslims have learned so well to support their hideously large families on the English, the Italian, the French, the Spanish welfare states). Becoming better adept at maniupulating the local languages and entitlement programs (created by those Infidel voters who had in mind only needier versions of themselves, not those who wished them and their kind nothing but humiliation, degradation, and insecurity, and funded entirely by Infidels and not by any conceivable Muslimancestors of the current Muslim beneficiaries). Vain attempts at "integration" will only allow Muslims, in whatever Infidel country they happen to have settled in, and enough about the way the locals think to better appeal to them, better conduct propaganda and apologetics, either to deflect any criticism of Islam and Muslims, or to actively conduct Da'wa among the Infidels.
And the height of absurdity was reached -- though apparently the interviewer, on a program called "The World," did not find it absurd -- was to say that the poor Muslims were being asked to choose between their Dutch identity and their Muslim identity which, she insisted, was like asking someone to choose between his mother and his father. But the analogy is false. In this case, Islam is not the loyal wedded spouse of Holland and the Dutch. Islam, rather, is a creed not merely alien (plenty of Believers in exotic creeds alien or new to the West have managed to fit in perfectly well, and be friendly neighbors, and loyal citizens, even if they came from Vietnam or India or China. Only one group distinguishes itself, only one belief-system. And that is Muslims, and Islam. For their belief-system does not envision a Holland, an Italy, an England, a France. Islam does not distinguish between the various components of one single unit, the Dar al-Harb, the regions of the world were Islam does not yet reign, and Muslims not yet dominate. The analogy, while it may have fooled some, and won sympathy for local Muslims in Holland "forced to choose between their mother and their father," was ridiculous.
Now there is a problem in France. Above Robert suggests that the problem is that these Muslims were not integrated. I am not sure that is exactly what he meant, but I would question whether "integration" -- government-funded moniotred mosques, teaching of language, affirmative-action programs for Muslims (but not for all those non-troublemaking Vietnamese, and Chinese, and non-Muslim blacks from sub-Saharan Africa or the Caribeean, Hindus and Sikhs -- no, since these people can integrate, no need to do special favors for them.
"Integration" will only lead to a loss of precious time. It will continue to hold out hope, when there is no hope for real integration, becuase what is in the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the Sira, though it may not always be fully comprehended or distributed, remains, cannot be changed, can always be appealed to by any Muslim who wishes, and there is no way that those so-called, very slippery "moderate" Muslims can suggest that no, it is the "extremists" who are untrue to Islam. They aren't untrue. They are perfectly loyal Muslims, good and righteous followres of that exemplar Muhammad, and no Muslim can contend otherwise, although of course that is what many Muslims are doing -- attempting to make Infidels believe that there is no problem, or that the problem can somehow be fixed, but they never tell us exactly how they are going to change those texts, those passages in the Qur'an, the Hadith, the Sira. And they cannot explain, and will not discuss, the real history of Muslim conquest, and mistreatment of non-Muslims. For that matter, they will not explain, nor discuss, the treatment of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians (yes, about 150,000 remain in Iran), and all other non-Muslims. Why won't they? Because they can't.
If integration can't work, except to benefit Muslims and keep the day of Infidel comprehension from arriving in time, and if non-integration can't work, what then?
At this point some will say -- well, since therre is no solution that we find "thinkable" is not to think about anything, and to go back to the previous state of denial. Just pretend that somehow things will work out. Pretend that Islam is not what it is. Pretend that the spicy lamb with cumin you were served at a Mosque Outreach Iftar is all ye know about Islam, and all ye need to know. Umm, the food. Umm, Muslims can be so nice, so soft-spoken, so hospitable. And that chicken with pita! No, there will have be be something a bit more substantive, about the tenets of Islam, and acknowledging those tenets (but if one really knew what Islam contained, as not all Muslims born or raised in the West may quite realize, then how could any decent person remain a Muslim? Hard to explain the hold of this belief-system on so many who cannot, out of some kind of diseased loyalty, insist on standing up for it. They needn't.)
The solution is to stop all Muslim migration to the Lands of the Infidels, and wherever possible, to reverse it. This can be done by taking care to ruthlessly enforcing the immigration laws when it comes to those who, by virtue of their beliefs, are not unreasonably deemed to constitute a group that supports, actively or passively, those who do not wish this or any Infidel country well, in its laws, customs, manners, understandings, and will work, are required as a duty to work, for the triumph of Islam and hence for changing those laws, those customs, those manners, those understandings.
And along with it, in ways little and big, the country can be Islam-proofed the way a house is child-proofed. Instead of letting the Saudis buy land, and build mosques, and paying for the upkeep, and the staffing of those mosques, monitoring so that no foreign money, or any money judged tainted, can be used to pay for mosques or madrasas. Monitor what is said in khutbas, and at the first sign of hate-preaching, do not merely be satisfied if a congregation removes the current imam. Close the mosque. Put everyone on notice that this kind of thiing cannot go on. Nor can it be allowed in any of the textbooks used in madrasas. Close any madrasa that makes allusion to smiting the Unbelievers. Since the division between Believer and Infidel is so central to Islam, and since the Jihad is a virtual "sixth pillar" of Islam, it should not be hard to find ways to limit the spread or practice of Islam. And if in addition to whatever local, state and federal government officials do, private parties simply conduct their own boycott of goods and services offered by Muslims, in the same way that they would once have refused to buy, in 1938, a German Voigtlander camera, or in 1953, to buy Baltic amber from the Soviet government's official trading-with-the-West ministry, Vneshtorg or something like it, why should one buy an oriental rug, or dates, or curry powder, from people whose presence, in merely swelling Muslim ranks, will inevitablly swell Muslim political power which, in turn, makes the lives of Infidels, in the end, more insecure.
If people born into Islam are at long last free to investigate fully what Islam is all about, and having done so, they still insist on remaining loyal to Islam, there is no reason for Infidels to support or indulge them, on some specious theory that Islam cannot really teach what it teaches, that adherents of Islam cannot possibly want what they are taught, according to Islam, to want -- the spread of Islam, the submission of all non-Muslims to, at best, the status assigned them in Islam of dhimmi.
Why should we tolerate this? On what theory? On what grounds?
Posted by: Hugh at November 2, 2005 5:01 PM
Division and exclusion? Did I miss something there? Is this not right in with the teachings of the Quran, and the hadiths when it comes to interacting with non-muslims,infidels,Jews, Christians, Etc?
Is this not the practice of muslims who represent the majority in other countries? Exclusion may be the kind choice of words when we see how Jews, and Christians are treated in predominate Islamic countries.
Even "tough on crime sarkozy" may see poverty,he may see exclusion, he may see division,as the perceived ills of these muslims, but the ideology of Islam brings with it a self inflicted division, and exclusion from the norm of western societies that can't help but lead to a polarization within French and western society.
It is not the French who cannot cope with this Islamic infusion, but it is the culture of Islam that is unable to cope, or integrate into a society that is not suppose to befriend in any way.
Posted by: Mackie at November 2, 2005 5:05 PM
How about legalizing drugs to stop the rioting of Muslims in France?
The majority of voters in Denver, Colorado, seems to think that legalising marijuan use would reduce crime and violence and so they have just voted to legalise it.
Power, I mean "Pot to the People" and they will be too stoned to riot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
election 2005
Denver pot issue passes by thin margin
By Christopher N. Osher
Denver Post Staff Writer
http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_3173687
Denver residents Tuesday voted to legalize possession of small amounts of marijuana, but the state attorney general said the vote was irrelevant because state law will still be enforced.
The measure passed 54 percent to 46 percent.
"It just goes to show the voters of Denver are fed up with a law that prohibits adults from making a rational, safer choice to use marijuana instead of alcohol," said Mason Tvert, executive director of Safer Alternative for Enjoyable Recreation, or SAFER.
Denver City Councilman Charlie Brown blasted as deceptive their campaign signs, which declared: "Make Denver SAFER, Vote Yes on I-100." Brown said he feared voters would believe the initiative would put more police on Denver streets.
Under fire from domestic-violence groups, SAFER also pulled a controversial billboard that showed a battered woman and her abuser with the slogan "Reduce family and community violence in Denver. Vote Yes on I-100."
Proponents of the initiative tried to draw Mayor John Hickenlooper into the fray by labeling him a hypocrite for selling alcohol in his brewpubs when he opposed their efforts to legalize marijuana.
During one rally, they unveiled a banner that read: "What is the difference between Mayor Hickenlooper and a marijuana dealer? The mayor has made his fortune selling a more harmful drug: alcohol."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Denver voters nix city pot laws
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051102-012927-7358r
DENVER, Nov. 2 (UPI)
One campaign strategy was to pit marijuana against alcohol, blaming the drink for things like domestic violence and deadly car accidents, The Rocky Mountain News reports.
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Alcohol is banned in Islam but there is still plenty of general and domestic violence among muslims. So those were lame excuses given by the pro marijuana camp. There are also studies indicationg marijuana might cause psychosis and other problems. The roads won't be any safer too. They will actually be more dangerous because the drivers will now be not only drunk but stoned as well.
How are we going to fight Jihad-Terror if the peopel on our side are stoned or flying high on drugs?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IC
at November 2, 2005 5:08 PM
Well gee, can't we all just get along? Where is that healer Rodney King when we need him? There must be some police brutality here. Rioting for six days and no police arrested yet!!!
Come on French people - show your sensitivity. You must feel their pain. You must beg forgiveness. You can start by apologizing for all those terrible Frankish Crusaders who wrecked havoc on the Muslim psyche.
Posted by: GFB at November 2, 2005 5:18 PM
HUGH: "In what sense, exactly, are they Dutch? What is it about the Dutch laws, customs, manners, history, do they comprehend, and fully identify with? Anything? Or is their "Dutchness" merely a matter of where they are, geographic happenstance and then also a matter of knowing Dutch, or possibly a bastardized form of it, which will not do as a definition of "Dutchness" that should satisfy any of the Dutch themselves, even if at one time it seemed to?"
Great question. As you point out, there is nothing intrinsic about their "Dutchness." It is a thin veneer of an identity...one that could be shed overnight...at the first real or perceived slight by a native.
The answer is simple. It is the material comforts offered by life in Holland...even or perhaps especially for those on the dole...that makes it so "impossible" for Muslims to return to Morocco or Turkey.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 2, 2005 5:26 PM
Not to fear; the BBC has rushed to the rescue to enlighten those of us who simply do not understand that the root cause of Muslim anger and violence in France is actually... wait for it... job discrimination.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4399748.stm
Sadek recently quit his job delivering groceries near Saint-Denis, just north of Paris. He was tired of climbing stairs with heavy bags. Unemployment is high in estates which are home to many Muslims Sadek, 31, has a secondary school education and aspires to something better. But he knows his options are limited: "With a name like mine, I can't have a sales job."
Of course poor Sadek's underemployability has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he has only a secondary school education. No, that would be too obvious for the BBC.
Posted by: Charles Martel at November 2, 2005 5:33 PM
Make no mistake about it this coming to every place on earth .This is how Islam is spread , France will make concessions proving their laws dont apply to muslims.
Posted by: KAOSKTRL at November 2, 2005 5:58 PM
Some more dhimmitude from the "Washington Post"- in the opening line of the story:
Adel Benna tried to put himself in the shoes of his shy 17-year-old brother, Ziad, and two teenage friends who scaled a wall and leapt into the cables of a power substation last Thursday evening -- willing to face electrocution rather than the French police officers they were trying to evade in this impoverished Paris suburb.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101761_pf.html
Poverty, police brutality, discrimination. They'll turn to metaphysics to explain why Muslims can't peacefully co-exist in Western societies before admitting the problem is I-S-L-A-M.
Posted by: emperor_diocletian at November 2, 2005 6:16 PM
"Young people don't just throw themselves into an electrical current," Benna said Tuesday, his voice trembling in anger. "They looked behind them and saw something that made them so terrified, so desperate, they did it out of absolute fear. I hate the police. They are responsible for my brother's death."
I would bet even money that those boys didn't realize the danger of jumping into the enclosed power substation. It had nothing to do with making a life or death decision and choosing death. It was just youthful ignorance and being "bulletproof".
at November 2, 2005 6:22 PM
I don't feel sorry for the f***ing french. They wanted labor on the cheap; now they can reap its blessings. Wake up America -- you're next.
Posted by: witness at November 2, 2005 6:51 PM
Repeat post for Sebastien (thanks for your insite, it IS appreciated!)
Sebastien,
Take heart, we all feel the same as you do!
I just watched the BBC and they finally mentioned the rioting-blaming it on Sarkozy and his tough on crime policy. The immigrants suffering from his policies, blah, blah, blah. No mention of them being muslims at all. No mention of the constant crime that needs to be stopped.
Unless something happens most people are unaware. I knew nothing about islam before 9/11. Only that the middle east lived on revenge and had been fighting for over a thousand years. I didn't know why they fought. I only knew this because of a relative ranting at the TV ( he was called a racist, too and listened to talk radio). And I paid attention in school! I liked history. It just isn't taught. I even knew someone who worked in Saudi Arabia but the only thing said was about what a horrible country it is, nothing else.
People are trained to be tolerant and are afraid to be anything else for fear of being called racist or Hitler. To that I say ** yawn** It's getting old, n'est pas?
Everything I needed to know about islam I learned on 9/11. Everything since then has only confirmed things. I listened to the news every night, but until 9/11 I never listened to talk radio for the "other side". I only started to listen to talk radio because I had the time. Others don't. I heard so many things that never make the news. I was hooked! Talk radio led me to Mr. Spencer's books and this site.
Most people are busy and don't like to worry about things they can't control. Don't give up!!!
Keep the talk radio on. Encourage people to read Mr. Spencer's books. His latest one especially since it's easier. E-mail articles to people that are outrageous. (Yeah, I know people don't always read them.) Point out that the mainstream media just doesn't want to mention muslim stories. This story is a perfect example. All over the internet but not on the news! PLANT A SEED OF DOUBT IN THEIR MINDS.
Even time a muslim story does manage to break the news now, family are saying they think of me and sometimes will ask me what I think! Or just avoid me because they know it's on my mind. I refer them to this site and LGF! I tell them if they don't know who Robert Spencer is or Hugh Fitzgerald is they don't know what I think about it!
SOMEBODY will be converted even if not right away!!!
The news media controls what most people think and they don't even know it. You know how people in Germany said they didn't know about the ovens? I believe that's why. Most people probably didn't know what was going on because most people just try to get through each day. Even the French papers don't have this story on their front page! The news media MUST be converted.
And in the meantime, with Mr. Spencer's grace to leave comments on, we can boost each other!
Take Heart!!!! We are with you!!
Posted by: Borg at November 2, 2005 6:55 PM
What really bugs me is that I hadn't even heard of this until now. One of the great cities of the world is a war zone for a week, and it's not even mentioned in my regular paper, and there's just a few blurbs on the scroller on CNN. What the hell? What are the media's priorities? Dammit, they're supposed to be biased TOWARDS the West (i.e, one snipered American=700 massacred Congolese), but here's a week-long crisis going unreported.
This is eerily similar to what happened in Holland after the Van Gogh murders. Europe's Muslim community appears to be a dream for terrorist recruiters: angry, underprivileged, numerous, isolated, living in the target land. Once insurgent veterans start coming home from Iraq, things like this could get more common.
Posted by: JesseMacLean at November 2, 2005 7:38 PM
How long has this crap been going on in France for? Decades?
Dalrymple/CityJournal/Autumn/2002;
An article about the muslim populated cement-block projects "Les Cites" around Paris. Muslim drug-gang controlled ghettos where no police will venture.
And the demographic clock ticks on.
Some new riots, ridiculous remarks about teenaged criminals looking back over their shoulders in "terror". In terror, of French Police, Muslims? Please, threaten me if it makes you happy, just don't insult me.
Tick tock tick tock
Now there will be commissions. Delegations will delegate, studies will be compiled and dutifully studied, throats will be cleared and harrumphs will be offered. Esteemed collegues will debate respected representatives.
The demographic clock ticks on.
New policies will be enacted, new policies will be rejected. "Too little" grudgingly offered to those who demand more but offer nothing in return. A "superior" group oppressed by their "inferiors", humiliating, an affront to religious sensibilities, a shameless heresey imposed upon the rightful rulers of the world.
But the clock ticks. Time is on their side. One day none of it will matter, the ascendancy will have come.
Posted by: t-ham at November 2, 2005 8:15 PM
Riots in France are wonderful. The more the better. And the less the French do to stop them, the more emboldened the rioters become due to hesitant and nervous half-measures, the better it will be in the long run for France and for all of Europe, perhaps even for the Muslim world itself. The riots will encourage Muslim insanity and that will in time turn the tide. There's no point in turfing one politician in favor of another, nor in changing a policy or creating a new social agency or dancing the multi-culti-fandango donning a Rita Moreno hat.
Riots on the streets, burning and looting, rape and pillage, all these things are for the good. The problem isn't this guy or that programme: the problem is structural, and it'll take a whole revolution to turn things to whatever better positon the French can live with. Who knows? Maybe it'll take a few more years of Muslim madness to melt the beams of French society. It's too long since the French had a good revolution, and they must be anxious about it by now. Let them simmer a while yet. In the meantime, it probably makes for great television.
Posted by: sonofwalker at November 2, 2005 8:22 PM
I didn't read all the comments, so if someone made this basic point, I apologize. How come Asians and other groups have so much less trouble 'integrating'? Culture obviously has a lot to do with it, and this includes religion. Islam predisposes people not to cooperate and integrate. And would you want to hire someone who seems hostile or potentially dangerous?
at November 2, 2005 8:46 PM
Who wants to lay odds the surrender monkeys become the next Islamic state long before Iraq?
Posted by: The Ugly American at November 2, 2005 9:12 PM
Its clear what should happen now. Condoleeza Rice should hint and possibly float the idea of Genocide. Pinko's everywhere should protest that enough isnt being done to stop this genocide and accuse the Bush administration of Cowardice and selling out the Muslims. "If these were Christian rioters the world wouldnt be standing by and letting them be killed.." Will go the chants. Bush of course will have to say that because he is embarassed that the US did nothing to stop the Rawanda Genocides he feels compelled to stop this genocide in the heart of Europe. France must be given an ulimatum let NATO in and a referendum will be held on the seperation of this Muslim entity or they will be bombed.
Sound familiar. yes this is exactly what happened in 1999. Replace France with Serbia and Kosovo with Muslim scum rioters in Paris suburbs.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 2, 2005 9:23 PM
I have been reading media reports on this for days and was thining that it is really NON INTEGRATION is the real problem.
And if you have ever been in these areas the police and ambulances are not welcome even when there is no riots going on.
These suburbs are like mini islamic countries, and they don't hide the fact that you are not welcome, you will probably not make it out, and a woman will probably get raped.
Because they know the police will not respond in a timely manner.
Posted by: alaskan1000 at November 2, 2005 9:25 PM
I was watching CNN this evening.....They had a feature story on these riots, and did not even mention the word "muslim". Way to go, Red Ted.
Posted by: templar at November 2, 2005 9:45 PM
Sweden is a good candidate to beat France in the 'Islamic Republic' department.
I purposefully seek out Europeans in an international chat-room I frequent in order to gain perceptions about their thinking vis-a-vis Islam.
I often come across Left-wing apologists who are incorrigible, but just as often, find Left-wingers whose hatred of Islam is exceeded only by their hatred of America. Alot of English, Spaniards and Italians fit in the latter catagory.
In fairness to the English and the Dutch, there are many among them who are implaccable foes of Islam and support America generally (though not necessarily on Iraq).
The Germans seem to a person to be clueless. One was so pathetically obsequious I wanted to vomit as he rambled on about how Muslim laborers were needed to insure the viability of his future social security. It was the psychology of utter helplessness and dependence.
The Swedes are the strangest of the lot. Their initial comments of nuetrality towards Islam shouldn't be taken at face value. It's as if they are living in a totalitarian society (perhaps they are). Only after having won their trust in the exposition of my own views do they open up about their true feelings. They despise what Muslim immigration is doing to their country and their culture, but they are absolutely resigned to it.
It is a Continent and a culture that has absolutely lost its bearings, its self-confidence, its very identity...and the American Left want us to emulate it.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 2, 2005 10:05 PM
I think the UN should step in and solve the problem in Paris, after all the French are VERY fond of the UN. Maybe Paris should have a "two state" solution. A Muslim French State living side by side, “in peace”, of course, with the French Infidel State.
The Infidel State should also be forced to pay a "Muslim Tax" that will be used to help bring the living standards of these Muslims (er parasites) up to the same standard as the French.
I'm sure all good Frenchmen will support the UN if such a proposal was passed.
Oh the irony of it all! The French insist Israel give up "land for peace", they attack the USA over the "War on Terror", they label Australia’s immigration detention centres (a front line defence system against predominantly Muslim illegal invasion) ‘criminal’ - and now look at their priceless Capital! HA HA HA HA HA !!!!! When Europe erupts I will be telling EVERY young man I come into contact with (and that number is in the hundreds) NOT TO SPILL any Aussie blood for Europe’s latest mess. I will be telling them to let the European Peace Activists to apply their rhetoric and solve the looming civil war in Europe. No need for USA, Australian troops for the THIRD time!
No -its hard to feel sorry for the French.
As for those posters above saying the French should be more "stern" these Muslims, I think there is a reason succinctly put in Mel Gibson’s “We Were Soldiers” movie as to why this can’t happen. There are two big wigs in the US Pentagon talking about a Vietnamese battleground, one says something like
“The French Army was massacred ……..”
The other General interjects and replies…
“French Army! What’s that!!!????”
A few good French jokes are needed here to lift the spirits of our dhimmi French infidels. So here goes….
Q/ Why are all the roads in France lined with beautiful trees?
A/ To give the German Army shade as they march towards Paris!
Q/ How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
A/ No one knows – they’ve never tried!!!!!
at November 2, 2005 10:11 PM
Well I guess it must be because Charlie is here to see Dubya and plead for Islamic tolerance that the press here is going balls out with the P.C. treatment on this issue. I too was watching some cable news this afternoon and an item on the crawler about the riots referred to the rioters as "North African immigrants".... Go figure.
Posted by: krkrjak at November 2, 2005 10:53 PM
Hugh asks:
"Why should we tolerate this? On what theory? On what grounds?"
Liberalism requires it.
Robert observes:
"But neither the French nor much of anyone else has the conceptual apparatus to be able to deal with such a thing."
Mad Liberal Disease has made a spongiform ruin of the Western mind. Or perhaps autoimmune disorder is the more apt analogy -- a disease wherein the body misidentifies itself as the enemy, and so destroys itself... or perhaps AIDS, where the body's ability to defend itself is slowly destroyed, and thus becomes prey to opportunistic infections, like Islam. Could be simple senility and old age too, I suppose. Whatever the cause, we need a cure.
Posted by: Zeno at November 2, 2005 11:01 PM
Thankfully, Europe had experience in how to deal with this kind of scum if only they have the balls and un-PC foresight to do it..
Yet another group of Semitic desert people infesting our streets.
Posted by: geekpunk at November 2, 2005 04:53 PM
_______________________________
"Yet another group of Semitic desert people infesting our streets..."
Not sure what you are referring to.....
Would you mind explaining?
Posted by: docgary at November 2, 2005 11:20 PM
geekpunk is proposing, to use an analogy, that we employ the Crips to take care of the Bloods. Obviously, that's silly and reprehensible, though geekpunk seems to be serious and sincere about it.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 3, 2005 12:06 AM
This is par for the course with islam..
You cannot be part of the same culture Islam demands you DESTROY..
If you become or even ASSOCIATE with anything Unislamic you are considered part of the disease...
Muslims CANNOT be truly muslim and be loyal to another country...
It is Impossible.. So i am not at all surprised.
Because of the sheer hatred of Islam twards anyone else no matter what you do it will not help
They dont CARE how nice you are..
They dont CARE how multi cultural you are..
You are Infidels ... , Apostates or worse Polytheists and therefore..
Ripe for the SLaughter...
This is Islam..
This is the Nature of the BEAST...
You cannot change it no more than stopping a crocodile from being what it is ..
A Killing Machine...
at November 3, 2005 12:06 AM
Zeno, I agree wholeheartedly with you about the Mad Liberal Disease (I prefer to call it "Leftist", not Liberal). Too bad that there is no consensus here at jihadwatch about such a screamingly obvious fact.
Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 3, 2005 12:07 AM
We must not give up hope... desire... or will to fight!
Our greatest weapon is the spread of knowledge about Islam, I talk to to as many people as I can and I make one or two converts a week.
I give away as my means permit Eurabia to my European freinds and PIG to all the rest.
The main barrier is lack of knowledge, which the excellent work of Mr Spencer and Hugh and the writings of the anti-Jihadist vanguard can easily fill.
No American should take any joy of what is going on in France, our greatest of all weapon is our the solidarity of the non Muslim cultures.
On a recent family trip to Poland I talked nonstop to my wife's Polish relatives and found much hope in their love of their European civilisation and religious faith.
Ditto my family in Spain and friends in Bavaria.
I f Paris is burning and the Islamists are on the streets, then I stand in solidarity with the French.
Only together and with solidarity can we will defeat this scourge of civilisation and freedom.
Posted by: El Cid at November 3, 2005 12:24 AM
The firing of a police tear gas grenade against a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois during clashes late Sunday also sparked rage in the suburb’s large Muslim community.
Gee, for some reason it doesn't take much to spark Muslim RAGE does it.
Increasingly observers are pointing to France’s failure to address deep problems of poverty and immigration.
Just as Robert predicted, it's all because of the "policies."
Observers see the riots as a sign of the growing divisions in French society — Muslim immigration, poverty, declining education standards in downtrodden areas and joblessness.
More like:
Observers see the riots as a sign of the growing divisions in French society — Muslim immigration, poverty, Muslim immigration, declining education standards in downtrodden areas Muslim immigration, and joblessness and Muslim immigration.
Sarkozy visited the Seine-Saint-Denis riot area early Thursday, without the usual media scrum in attendance.
Did he say media scum ??? Oh.
"Police said that children as young as 10 and 12 were involved in the rioting."
Read it all:
at November 3, 2005 12:34 AM
Those who can still remember hugh''s monumeta, post "la Douce France" must now realise that the prophesy is beginning to come true.
The French have been betrayed by their own governments.
How could the French culture admired and envied by the whole world (especially they tell us , the Americains) have failed to produce responsible french Muslim young citizens after already two or three generations?
How come the white russians, the poles, the maronite refugees, the vietnamese and the Jews all integrated and became french over one generation and yet all failed with the Muslims?
How would Villepain answer that question?
Would he indulge in some self flagelltion, perhaps claiming the Muslims had not been treated as fairly as the other refugee communities who have enriched french culture.
Or perhaps one should blame the Americains for all this?
Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo , plenty of material to spin there non?
at November 3, 2005 12:47 AM
I would agree with all of you but I've been to France. France is a VERY racist nation. White French people treat their population like crap and often refuse to hire them for any job. The French Algerians are extremely frustrated. When you see them walk down the street, they never have a smile on their face. The case in other European countries is not as bad and that is probably why there hasn't been widespread rioting in other European nations. First France has to send in the military to restore order immediately. Second, France has to review hiring policies, etc. that are discriminatory towards minorities. Third, France should go for a more balanced immigration approach instead of mainly letting in Algerians and Moroccans.
Posted by: Ryan at November 3, 2005 1:14 AM
I tend to agree with a whole and varied range of ideas here above: that we all want to stand in solidarity with the French; that we truly need some unifying ideal to draw us together in this desperate time; and --dare I write it-- that letting loose the Bloods of War is a fine idea.
I don't agree that the French elites have betrayed their own people: I feel, as I've argued here before, that it is the people who betray themselves by voting for scum people to lead them.
But what to make of Cornelius's comments? Yeah, what if we've turned into suicides and cannibals? What if this is the Black Death of the mind? If that's the case, then my hope of a politics of confrontation is pretty worthless. I'll ponder it overnight, and I'll return to this in the hope of finding some insights from you, cause I don't think it's going to dawn on me in a matter of a few short hours. If the West is suicidal, then what legitimate intervention would people find acceptable?
Posted by: sonofwalker at November 3, 2005 1:14 AM
As I've posted on my blog just now,
I think the Paris Riots can turn out to be a major strategic moment for France and Europe.
But will Europe see the errors in its past policies? Or will it weaken in what we see is the raise of the Muslim Street?
I believe that in the short them, this is the more pessimistic scenerio. It will take much more for Europe to "wake up".
Posted by: strategyunit.blogsome.com at November 3, 2005 3:35 AM
Thanks Borg for your post. If I have any more 'insights' I'll be sure to pass them on. :)Meanwhile, the relentless zombie army grows exponentially just like rabbits introduced to Australia without natural predators.
The only natural predator for the virus of islam is truth, and truth is in very short supply these days.
Meanwhile, if anyone would like to financially help a webmaster who has a massive legal problem because of this site http://www.musulmanesonline.com/index2.php
I'm sure he will be more than grateful. Examples of this satirical site are 'Helping Nibila to purchase a Burka' http://www.musulmanesonline.com/editos/index.php
And the Instant conversion kit http://www.musulmanesonline.com/islam/conversion/index.php
This guy owes about 4000 euros in legal costs and is in fear of his life. The crazy thing is, is that it wasn't the usual anti racist organisations that prosecuted him, but the French Interior ministry. His defence that 'islam is not a race' was thrown out of court and he has in effect been fined 15 000 € for blasphemy.
Any donations can be made through paypal via occidentalis here: http://www.occidentalis.com/article.php?sid=240
After you go through the usual payment options, there is a little message window which appears. There you must specify that the money is for 'musulmanesonline'
Even 3 $ would be of help. Also for the chap to receive money, however little, would greatly encourage him.
More details on the rest of the case (in French) can be found here http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=6839
Posted by: Sebastien at November 3, 2005 4:17 AM
Q: When in France where is the best place to keep valuables?
A: Under a Frenchman's soap.
Posted by: 1666 at November 3, 2005 4:26 AM
1666, I am a Brit married to a Frenchwomen, really that comment sucks.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 3, 2005 4:46 AM
Ryan. Ever asked yourself why your non smiling Algerian doesn't have a job? We have plenty of non white people working here, non of whom carry a huge chip on their shoulder.
WOuld you call an American employer a racist because he refuses to hire a gehtto boy who speaks pure ebonics with a smattering of English?
at November 3, 2005 4:51 AM
Terrorist attacks like the london bombings are not "crimes" in the same vein as murder or rape.
They are acts of War against the nation and should be tried as such in courts outside the civil courts.
islam has declared war on the west and we must acknowledge this declaration. it is time to stop treating these outrages as civil disobedience and accept them for what they are.
If a german saboteur had been caught in London during WW2 , would he have been tried next to shoplifters or burglars?
at November 3, 2005 4:56 AM
I apologise and withdraw the joke.
Would the webmaster please delete my earlier post. I was out of order.
at November 3, 2005 5:08 AM
I was going to post on here a comment similar to Sebastian's, I know someone who works with Arabs, he is a hard worker and started low and built himself up. He despises Arabas working at his company as they are lazy and arrogant. Of course a sweeping generalisation, but he has had plenty of experience.
In my experience French people are hard workers (certainly those working for the private sector are) so given the choice would one take a risk to employ an Arab, I would not, unless he was known to me.
And finally the French economy is weak so jobs are scarce even for hard workers. It took my wife 3 years to get a full time job...
Posted by: Daffersd at November 3, 2005 5:10 AM
1666 thanks for that, apology well and truely accepted.
Posted by: Daffersd at November 3, 2005 5:22 AM
Thank you.
Posted by: 1666 at November 3, 2005 5:27 AM
These riots appear to be a major victory for Islam, for they have learned something new - they can riot for days on end, set fire to cars and buildings, take over whole areas of major cities, and Europe will exonerate Islam entirely. Furthermore, they have learned that even when there are simultaneous Muslim riots in two European cities, we will diligently fail to connect the dots. This could even be a surprise to them; certainly it will embolden them to take the next step, whatever that might be.
Posted by: Doctor Phibes at November 3, 2005 5:42 AM
Ryan,
Other visible minorities in France, Vietnamese, Armenians, West Indians, Maronites, North African Jews and a host of others have pulled themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps, magrebíes should do the same. Moreover, I don't believe France is any more racist than any other European country with a large immigrant population, but the French are different and demand that newcomers assimilate and become French; there is no multiculti nonsense that plagues Anglo countries. More privatization of the French economy would be a good start in alleviating some unemployment, but would it stop terrorism. I doubt it. It certainly didn’t stop the London bombers.
at November 3, 2005 5:55 AM
Hello Ryan,
About your last comment:
"I've been to France. France is a VERY racist nation. White French people treat their population like crap and often refuse to hire them for any job".
I am French and have been living in France for 30 years. Your comment is inaccurate: the French are not racist. I would say, on the contrary, that they are very open minded people (traditionally) and very interested in other cultures. Hence the naive way they handle our muslim problem here. They would prefer to disappear and die rather than say "we have a muslim / immigration problem". The French are so naive ! It seems every country in the world is wonderful, according to them (except the US which they hate, unfortunately).
Personally I have never met a racist person in France. But I have met people who are angry with disorder, violence, cars being burnt and sometimes, unfair "positive discrimination".
Ex: The modest woman who works all day in a supermarket and travels 3 hours a day to her work and back, and comes back on evening in a suburb where a mafia reigns, that is people who are drug dealers, rapists etc. That woman has become racist yes, because after her hard working day she cannot go out of her home for fear of being raped, annoyed, aggressed. She has no social recognition and the journalists do not interview her to know how she feels. And she sees 18 year old people who are richer than her because they deal drugs etc. and who are the kings of the street. She sees that the police is scared of patrolling where she lives. How unfair ! Such a crap life, in such a crap place ! Whilst our socialists live in beautiful flats in the beautiful areas of Paris, where "the youth" dont come yet.
So yes, that woman might have become racist after a while ! And 20 % of the French people with her, who voted for the extreme right party in April 2002. By the way those people are not necessarily "white".
Speaking about racism, there is a strong anti white, anti Jewish racism is our Muslim suburbs.
at November 3, 2005 6:03 AM
Cornelius, November 2 – ”Sweden is a good candidate to beat France in the 'Islamic Republic' department.”
Wait and see. The volcano is about to erupt. I would prefer that the government started to act but as they probably would not the real racists will take the matter into their own hands and drag the rest of the people into a civil war. Unfortunally that will go out over innocent people as well.
The Swedes are really discontent with the situation but are at the moment gagged by legal threats if they go public.
Sorry to say, but Swedes are inclined to bend to avoid confrontation but when the breaking point is reached and when life is at stake there will be a very violent reaction.
at November 3, 2005 7:29 AM
Geekpunk. How do you confine people to ghettos? I have a black neighbour, was he left out in the latest roundup?
Is it possible, that maybe they chose to live in a ghetto? Does the phrase "Birds of a feather, flock together" mean anything to you?
Good jobs is as much a question of education as anything else. Some people chose not to go to school. Whose fault is that? The racist French?
Anyway the All Saints holiday period is now over. I guess the kids that torched the 300 cars in the Paris region last night will have much to write when the teacher sets the homework essay : "What I did during the holidays?"
at November 3, 2005 8:15 AM
dem poor ol blacks and arabs condemed to da ghetto. doze mean ol whiteys. dow wit amerika and franze. geekpunk u is a genus.
Posted by: KingTesticle at November 3, 2005 8:38 AM
Ripley's believe it or not alert -- from post above:
"Thirty-four people were arrested in the rampages...
Um, we have a riot here in Toledo that lasts a few hours and we arrest 114 people. The French have riots for six days and have only arrested 34?????"
Canada tougher than France ! ? ! ? ! Yes...
It's a great point -- so much for Sarkozy's "tough" language -- The French think everything is opera and drama -- they think that how something appears is more important than what something is... If the interior minister talks "tough" then that is sufficient in operaland --- the audience claps -- and then the show is supposed to be over --
The problem is, Just like with the tough talk prior to WW2 from the French, or their vainglorious misplaced hopes in their much vaunted "Maginot Line" -- that imaginary "impenetrable wall of defense..." the French concealed their fecklessness, laziness, and cowardice by playing 'let's pretend...' Here is a fantastic excerpt from a site called "Interwar France." The conflation of aggression and French folly and cowardice resulted in stoking the flames of the catastrophe which followed:
"The Abrupt Failure of the French in World War II
...
Germany's march into the Rhineland on March 7, 1936 was the first sign of weakness from the French. A notable consequence to the quick surrender of the Rhineland was the apathy displayed by the French. This was knowledge that would later prove to be very valuable to Hitler.
A major division between the French Left and Right was also a great consequence of the invasion in the Rhineland. The French Left was in approval of a peace-pact and trusted Hitler's peace promise. The French Right, however, was in favor of, if not war, at least the threat of war and agreed with Hitler's suppression of the liberals and radicals. This split of the common Frenchman and the apathy of the entire country were key factors to the failure of the war to come."
Just so, today we have the hollow men -- the straw men -- the tough talkers promising much and delivering nothing -- On the left we see the most debased offers of appeasement and encouragement for the attackers -- The players are different, the faultlines are different, the nature of the threat is different -- But again France displays an utter inability to contend with existential threats -- and only helps to fan the flames higher, brighter, hotter....
It is possible to imagine that France and Germany are actually the nexus of this battle with Islam -- These are the portals (and to a lesser extent the UK) into which pour the aggrieved and aggressive seracen -- He sees opportunity in these decadent lands -- these supposed first world Western bastions -- They see native populations so filled with contempt for the legacies of the West -- they see citizens unwilling to spend tax dollars for their own defense -- they see media predisposed to push the Islamist party line if it means they can insult and denigrate America and the forces of capitalism....
In short, the Muslim sees in France and Germany the tired out husks of former world powers, unwilling to fight, except where it affords them an opportunity to betray the nation that salvaged them from annihilation... The Muslim sees a haven in these weak, foolish, self loathing nations...
In perfect order -- Satan's handmaiden, D. DeVillepain has pronounced the rioters "scum" and promised a heavy response -- France will either turn into the Nazi, and provide the Muslims with true acts of outrage (I doubt they have the stamina, but ther are this foolish) or revert to type and play the appeasing leftist and reward the Muslim community with treasure and concessions if they promise not to do this again.... This latter scenario is the most likely -- And thus we will see played out for the world -- the Palestinization of France --
Remember these days in decades hence... This is the opening scene of the opera entitled "The Doom of France." Hush -- let's watch in rapt horror -- the stage has been set -- the opera begins -- I hear it is a fantastic show --and a horrific show...
Posted by: jsla at November 3, 2005 11:35 AM
I'm showing my age here, but back at the height of his stardom I recall Omar Shariff having something to say about the general attitude the French had toward anyone who wasn't French as being more than a tad stand-offish and put this down to a high degree of self-absorbtion.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 3, 2005 12:13 PM
I f Paris is burning and the Islamists are on the streets, then I stand in solidarity with the French.
Only together and with solidarity can we will defeat this scourge of civilisation and freedom.
Posted by: El Cid
Yea, and amen.
at November 3, 2005 1:03 PM
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