Oh wow, yeah. Let's accept this pathetic "sophisticated-bomb-factory" explanation from French politicians trying to excuse their failures in containing these riots.

Peace.

Posted by: Shukri at November 6, 2005 2:06 PM

This proves that it has been organised and is not as spontaneous. All they were waiting for was the spark to set it off and two kids provided that spar, literally. many pundits have been suggesting that something bigger than bored youths are behind the trouble and this proves it. I would not be at all surprised to hear of an Al Qaeda affiliate being named as being behind the French trouble.

Posted by: IceDragon at November 6, 2005 2:09 PM

This proves that it has been organised...

On the word of a French politician?! LOL...

Posted by: Shukri at November 6, 2005 2:15 PM

Time for "Marshall Law". Lock it down after dark. Let these "troubled youths" know if you are on the street after dark you go to jail ... period!

Posted by: Jack at November 6, 2005 2:16 PM

Are these the immigrants that Europe needs to fill her labour force?? I think the Europeans should check to see if they have any warranty left. Canada is talking about bringing in 700,000 more immigrants over the next few years, I hope they we look very closely at this. Why would we want these people in our midst? Their worldview is not compatible with an advanced, civilized culture like the one we find in the West.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at November 6, 2005 2:24 PM

The French to steeply entrenched in the left wing liberal ideology of being politically correct,and multiculteralist sensitive at the risk of undermining their own unique culture is shear insanity.

The real definition of multiculturalism has been perverted everywhere. It originally asked that everybody respects each others cultural differences. Instead we see the opposite, we see people afraid to express their cultural differences so as not to offend other cultures--- I.E. muslims that is-- who quite frankly, as we all know, respect no ones culture but their own--

WAKE UP FRANCE AND START KICKING SOME BUTT---- instead of showing the idiotic concern that they are only blowing off steam because they are in poverty or being suppressed.-Well tough--that is pure and total nonsence.

Posted by: Mackie at November 6, 2005 2:30 PM

Shukri writes:
"Peace."

Been working overtime lately I see. It gets harder and harder to convince the ignorant that
mohammadans mean the same thing by that word as
others. Keep trying! Gotta stop because we over
here at JW are as bad as the terrorists in Iraq.
Enough, gotta run and murder some Shiite kids or
behead someone.

Posted by: American at November 6, 2005 2:35 PM

The French cannot respond because they are still captive to the Fictive Reality Zone that got them into this mess in the first place.

I have friends in France. My heart goes out to them. Please, override your Fake Media chains and come back to reality.

Then deal with them. Completely.

Posted by: Chaz MarteL 732 at November 6, 2005 3:18 PM

Hmmm, whom should I trust the word of French politicians, or the people burning crippled old women alive? Tough one.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 6, 2005 3:52 PM

Now I get it. Muslim youths are upset that all they can get for work is employment in factories. The C.V. says "Factory worker w/ experience in automobiles." Too sad.

And then they find themselves at a disadvantage competing with Korean children. What a world. What a world. Help, I'm melting.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 6, 2005 3:54 PM

In Shukri's mind, the Mossad is to blame for the riots. Not the Muslims.

Posted by: igor at November 6, 2005 3:56 PM

" On the word of a French politician?! LOL... "

WOW, first hide/twist the reality and when exposed, deny the reality. Poor dear rioters. How dare the people's representatives accuse them of organized crime. Who are they ? Is it their country ?

Ordinarily when someone makes a mistake, if they accept responsibility for it, ask for forgiveness and not repeat the same crime again, we forgive them. But no, Islamic terrorits, under one pretext or the other, will commit heinous crimes, again and again and again, shamelessly, with impunity. And when their reality is exposed, laugh at others (they are actually laughing at us for having kept quite and being tolerant till now) and doubt their credibility (example: " On the word of a French politician?! LOL... ").....even shamelessness has its limits ! Yuck.

Posted by: lazysusan at November 6, 2005 4:21 PM

Hello all,

Let me pick up my telephone: "Errrr may I speak to Charles Martel please ?"

At that time when he kicked the Arabs out of France, this brave Charles was not complexed. The West was decided to kill to get its way.

From a very upset / scared / desperate Parisian, good evening to all of you. This site cheers me up every day. I can see I am not totally alone in this world. I can see some people still know who they are (Western people) and are not afraid of claiming that they are attached to our Western values.
According to me, the French (and the other European people) have 4 problems:

1) Muslims wanting to detroy the Western civilisation and burning old women in the street.
2) Coward (and also, machiavelian !) politicians.
3) Stupid, ignorant, submitted and lazy journalists.
4) Communists, socialists and US haters.

The first problem being the less serious one ! As I have previously written on this site, I believe the most serious problem is not that we have enemies. The contrary would be surprising... Jealousy ! Envy ! The real problem is that we are rotten inside, that we dont believe in anything anymore, that we dont love ourselves anymore, that we are not proud of what we are, which is all the more sad as the Western civilisation is the most advanced civilisation.

The whole thing, beyond all the complexities of politics, politicians negotiations, money issues, diplomatic issues etc. The whole thing is PSYCHOLOGICAL. We are so fucked up in our heads we are not even able to NAME our enemies, the ones who openly, officially want to destroy us. We prefer to blame it on, let us say, the USA, Mister Bush and other abstractions...
It is like our homosexuals in France: they merrily invade Notre-Dame de Paris to marry two lesbians and then make a fuss about the fact that the Catholics are sooooo mean to them... but they dare not enter a mosquee. No, they would be beaten up and they know it.
The Catholics, Bush and maybe the pinguins of the North Pole are our enemies. Everybody is our enemy but the very ones who set fire to an old handicapped woman a few days ago.
Stockholm Syndrome. Big time.
In the meantime, our politicians, business people, diplomats, Muslim leaders, anti terrorist police, and God knows whom, are dealing and negociating in the dark. The evening news are just a pathetic show which does not even start giving the beginning of a complete, clever analysis. The average citizens dont have a clue of what is really going on.

But at the end of the day, the situation still remains the same: the Western democracies have lost their toughness and are now UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

I believe that that is included in the very principle of freedom. Freedom contains, in itself, the roots for its own destruction, in the average run. The French thinker Alexis de Tocqueville had understood that 200 years ago, in his book about Democracy in America. Good old Alexis commented: the democracies end up putting the most mediocre people, the most ignorant, into power. Everybody has to be leveled down. There is too much comfort, too much freedom, hence people lose their vigilance.

Without violence, no free system will survive. If we do not fight, we die. The barbarians will force us to behave like barbarians, or we will die.

The French people are SICK inside. They suffer from years of socialist brainwashing. A young man (Catholic and well educated) recently told me: "What is being French ? What does this mean ? France is not ours... we dont have values... what are you talking about ? " The mere idea that there is a "France" seemed shocking to him. "Value" was obscene and I admit I blushed.

Will we survive ? The current French government will of course find a way of appeasing the rioters. I even suspect that they let the rioters come into Paris last night in order to scare the honest people even more, and get more votes for the 2007 Elections.

They will find a way of calming those young barbarians down. But it will not solve our problem. Riots will resume, even more violent. People will be educated in the hatred of their own roots, heritage, like spoilt kids demanding even more, not realising how precious what they received is. In that, not different from those immigrants living off the State money but hating the country which invited them and offered them a better life.

And I ask myself: is it really worth it ? Am I going to fight for people who are ungrateful (I am talking about the Western people) ? Am I going to fight for people who want to commit suicide ?

Posted by: joiesauvage at November 6, 2005 4:40 PM

Why hasn't the military been sent in to put down the riot? In the US the national guard would have been sent in by now and a curfew imposed.Looters and arsonists would be arrested or shot.

Posted by: Roxane at November 6, 2005 5:00 PM

I apologize if this has been discussed already (so many comments to read!): the mysterious family background of the poor woman who was torched.

According to France Echoes, Channel 3 interviewed her 2 daughters, Yael and Anastasia, both white and dressed like Westerners.

Half-an-hour later TF1 interviewed her daughter called Fadella who wore a hijab.

Then FR2 interviewed the same girl, in the same setting but from a slightly different angle.

France Echoes also says that being public service television, France 2 often shares images with France 3, but in this case interviewed different daughters. Half-sisters perhaps? Or is there more to it? Hmmm. C'est bizarre, non?

Pictures and article at
http://trans.voila.fr/voila?systran_lp=fr_en&systran_id=Voila-fr&systran_f=100000000000&systran_url=http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=7532

Update from http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/ :

29 cops injured by gunfire.

Article it links to unfortunately in French and I have not found an English one.

Posted by: Silvester at November 6, 2005 5:04 PM

Are there other Europeans on this web site?
I'm trying to learn more on Islam and i found this web site.

I guess i'm just the average Joe. Until very recently I had nothing against muslims. it started 6 months ago. My mother had to take the undeground here in Brussels. She is 60 years old. she likes to take care of herself, nothing sexy, simply elegant clothes for her age.

A couple of young muslims insulted her during all her trip. She was called "Bitch", right here, in the middle of Europe because she had no veil.
A friend of her told her that in some parts of Brussels she wear a veil to avoid any problem...can you believe that? A christian wearing veil in the middle of a christian continent to please these fucking losers.

And now my girlfriend had to endure the same insults from young muslims because she had a mini-jupe. She was coming back home after her work. she has to pass through a muslim neighboorhood.

I see more and more of their women wearing from head to toes their own traditionnal religious clothes...Some even with a veil on their face. Just like if they were in the middle of Afghanistan or something.

Then I see these Muslim riots in France. And this murder of a man also in France. He was simply taking pictures of public furnitures for his work. He was with his wife and his daughter. Young muslims beat him to death to take his camera...Right in front of his daughter.

I'm just wondering about the cultural background of these young muslims.

Where does their attitude come from?

I'm not racist, I life peacefully in a building with muslim families. I have great respect for this moderate muslims. They are hardworkers and well educated. But...My God these lazy young muslims, they look like they are not from the same people.

I simply can't stand anymore those young muslims who live all day long on the street and who are humiliating our women.

Somebody has to remind them that they live on western soil.

Is there anykind of association (not far right extremists, simply concerned citizens)?

olivier

Posted by: olivier laurent at November 6, 2005 5:10 PM

Hello Olivier,
I am a French woman, and what you say PISSES me OFF ! How dare they ? They despise Woman.
It is my hope that more and more people, like you, become aware of the danger Islam represents for the future. But we already have more than 6 million Muslims in France. And many others awaiting at our borders.
Just had a chat with a liberal friend of mine. She is a journalist in Paris... typical, so typical... lefty... she repeats what the media say, what they say in their own little bubble. Those people just dont get it... they are still accusing the Catholic Church ! They have barbarians at their door and are blaming poor peaceful Catholics ! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !

Posted by: joiesauvage at November 6, 2005 5:18 PM

olivier said "Is there anykind of association (not far right extremists, simply concerned citizens)?"

Dear Olivier

I think Europe's problems require more than just "concerned citizens". If I were you I would at the very least be complaining to the police and city hall about this harrasement of your mother and girlfriend. I would consider forming a group to ride along on public transportation. In the end you have to make them afraid to bother us. Yes I am sure your neighbours are very nice muslims, but they won't stay that way, trust me.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at November 6, 2005 5:23 PM

Too much Racine, not enough Euripides. If the French think Ephigenia is going to walk off the stage and live happily ever after, they live in a phantasy world I don't care to share with them. Hark! I think I see Le Pen entering stage right.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 6, 2005 5:24 PM

olivier,

You can start by clicking on "Articles" at the top of this page. It has a collection of articles by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald dealing with an assorted amount of topics relating to Islam, Muslims, and their relation to non-Muslims.

If you want to delve a little deeper, you can read the following books to start:

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer

The Legacy of Jihad by Andrew Bostom

Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis by Bat Ye'or

and the quintessential

Why I am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq

As for associations, if you mean political parties, I don't know of any. I would just suggest to vote for independents that are anti-immigration because of the cost to Europe and not because of xenophobia.

Posted by: igor at November 6, 2005 5:26 PM

this is merely the beginning, this is just a small scale civil unrest.

Within this year, heavily financed and armed battle hardened jihadists will launch a major offensive in europe. the bombs in spain, london and now these riots over in france, birmingham and denmark are just the opening salvos. we will face major bombings, street battles and costly civilian massacres soon. but luckily we are dealing with an incredibly stupid enemy that has underestimated the european mentality and the ballot box. Come next elections in all the respective european nations we will vote for the hard right parties and the muslim menance will be extinguished within a few months. unless of course you want to believe in the marxist media that the riots and bombings are caused by poverty and white racism and police brutality.

Posted by: leom at November 6, 2005 5:36 PM

Olivier just for your knoledge some facts about being a muslim ,and a muslim woman in the muslim society.
1. A girl belongs to her parents and brothers!
2.She cant walk out on the street alone!!Never ever!!
3.She will marry the choosen one by her parents,love and such nonsence are not a factor in her life!!
4.She can be killed and would be killed by her ,father or brothers if they decide that the family honor was breeched.
5.Shes not a human being in the muslim comunity,shes a mere peace of property to negociate with.
6.Ask any older muslim with a family of 5 kids,2 girls and 3 boys,how many children you have?The answer will be 3!!The girls dosent count!!!
7. She marry and her husband has the life and death autority over her,so does her father and brother.Cruel hard life!!!

A muslim will never integrate with the society his living in,he will create for ever a ghetto for himself to keep tradition,and his fucking Allah and Mohammad.
He will always complain of racism and negligence from the autorieties,.
Now to be more blunt,can you ever have a date with a muslim girl without being murdered?
Can you critisize Islam without being murdered?
Can you enter a muslim neigborhod with a cross on your neck without being attacked?
The answer is no,never,but a muslim has the rigth to do whatever he wants,and behave like he was the rigthfull resident of Europe ,and you the Christian,Jew,or any other religion are only visitors there!!

Thats the Muslim problem and peril!!They should be shipped back to their beloved countries long ago!!Yes TRANSFER back to morroco,algier,tunisia, etc.

Posted by: Thomas at November 6, 2005 6:04 PM

This story has been confirmed by a release from the associated press, both on MSN (Liberal) and Foxnews (Conservative).

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 6:49 PM

Hi French people,
I don't think you'll eliminate the threat
at the ballot box. If recent history is any indication, you'll continue to engage in a
great big collective pants wetting, and then finally ask America (which, you know, has a military that can actually fight) to sacrifice blood and treasure to clean up the mess, all the time spitting on American culture and values.

I hope you prove me wrong, and fix this problem. Really. But I think there is something
in the modern French character that will not permit the problem to be solved. Also, I read that 15% of the French military is mohammadan.

Posted by: American at November 6, 2005 6:55 PM

joiesauvage:

Might I suggest you get off your ideological high horse and spread,evenly, around some of your anguish and angst.

It is not only the Commies,Socialists and left that are the problem, but the capitalists, financiers, bankers, industrialists those who increase their profitability (and the price of their stock) by employing cheap Muslim labor, and selling goods (including nuclear reactors and centrifuges to Muslim countries) and then there are the French contractors, architects and engineers who sell their souls for petrodollars and petroEuro's.

As regards the hostility of some secularists towards the Catholic Church (and other Christian communities) well, they may be peaceful but they are antagonistic towards atheists, queers and "feminists".

Knowing quite a few of same, I would say the problem lies in propaganda and policies of the Church itself, given their hostility towards, demonization and marginalization of homosexuals and women (via those women who seek control over their own bodies).

You see these people, whom the right chastizes, views the social landscape and see marginalizing, demonizing hostility coming at them from within their own culture and neighbors (the immediate threat) some of them indeed realize that Islam is no better and in fact worse, but they see that as a distant threat..

And when faced with the devils choice of the frying pan, in which one is sitting, and a fire which is not immediate.. which one do you think they will choose.

You are aware of course, that it is the ideology of many a Christian that gays and pro choicers should be stoned, imprisoned or executed. And in that regard I would suspect that those whom you lament and lambast see no difference between you and the Muslim.

It is not sufficient to exclaim, as is often done, "Well at least we don't stone and behead queers and feminists", you (or the Church and it's minions) don't, but perhaps would if you or they could.

There is a point to this, if it isn't removed, if conservatives are truly interested in fighting to preserve western civilization, then stop alienating those who should be allies. don't make enemies out of natural allies. Stop doing what you are doing, stop the rhetoric and realign priorities, otherwise we are going to lose.. period.

Not only are the socialists handholding the Muslims, but the Capitalists are protecting, importing, hiring, enriching and encouraging them, and then comes the self righteous right, with policies and verbal darts that alienate those on the left who would or should join those on the right.

I don't want my descendants to grow up dhimmi's, but if they do I can ONLY blame those on the right, for their stupid, short sighted, intransigent and MORALISTIC (just like the Muslims) policies,attitudes and rants

Now jump on and beat me up for speaking some truth, denial and righteousness are the best of pyschological defenses..ask the Muslims, they too employ to great effect these same defenses.

The attitude of the right,from the perspective of the left, is intransigent, self righteous, intolerant which is just a few ways to define Conservative these days.

So these morons on the left are faced with two intransigent, self righteous, intolerant groups.
The distant Muslim and the not so distant, but in your face, home grown conservatives.

I had, on another forum, a heated debate with a gay, who called me a bigot for posting the truth about Islam, Muhammad and quotes from the Qur'an, and when I pointed out that Iran has executed hundreds of gays.. his response was more or less "so what, the society I live in is not Islamic, and it isn't Muslims who deny me rights, like the right to enjoy the same privileges and responsibilities as Christian heterosexuals, and if Islam prevails then the Christians have it coming to them."

Way to go Catholic Church, way to go Christian conservatives, you might as well set up recruiting stands in front of Mosques and solicit support from "liberals", "leftists", "gays" and "feminists" for the Jihad against the west.

Somehow I think that this simple message flies over the head like a lead balloon.

Posted by: Nariz at November 6, 2005 8:04 PM

'You are aware of course, that it is the ideology of many a Christian that gays and pro choicers should be stoned, imprisoned or executed. '~ nariz/giaour

Show us the numbers, nose. Prove It. While you are at it, please demonstrate how those of here who profess to be Christian, are all subconsciously prepared to carry these things out, at the word of the reconstructionist/illuminati/(zionist?) cabal you are so afraid of:

http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz200505020944.asp

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17957

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17927

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17958

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jonahgoldberg/jg20050513.shtml

Posted by: Gary at November 6, 2005 8:41 PM

Wow. Insightful yet misdirected.

It is impossible to justify any kind of action unless there is some kind of underlying moralistic attitude. Hrm... Should I value the life of this ebola virus pathogen or the life of a human being. I must now make a choice on moral grounds. Otherwise, I really can't justify acting unless I place some higher moral value on human life than on a virus.

Similarly, all life decisions must be made by some kind of value. This moralistic attitude you profess to hate is the very fabric of our society. Our common moralistic value allows us to all agree that MURDERING children for family honor is a very bad thing.

At the same time, it is those on the left who lack these moralistic attitudes that make such bizarre choices. Examples:

Women. Many women are pro-women rights because it directly affects them but are also pro-Islam, which restricts women's rights, because it does not directly affect them.

I have made the moralistic decision that women's well being in a place far far away concerns me and weights heavily on my conscience.

Gays. Many LGBT-IIQA are pro-gay rights but are also pro Islam. They are driven more by their hated of American moralistic values than by the suffering of their brothers/sisters/genderneutralsibling across the sea.

I have made the moralistic decision that although I do not believe the state shoudl dictate marriage, LGBTIIQA should have the right to LIFE.

You could say, I am a moralistic arrogant Jerk because I am PRO-LIFE in all these situations. I have made the moral choice that life is valued over Islamofascism. Yes, I am an A$$.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 8:44 PM

Yes, poor starving Muslim "youth" have nothing better to do with their money than purchase petrol at $7.00 per gallon to feed their "rage," by using it for Molotov bombs.

They do have their priorities, afterall.

Posted by: yonason at November 6, 2005 11:18 PM

joiesauvage wrote:
“And I ask myself: is it really worth it ? Am I going to fight for people who are ungrateful (I am talking about the Western people) ? Am I going to fight for people who want to commit suicide ?”

After 911: I swear by all that is scared to me, I was ready to sacrifice my life in a heart beat for the country that saved me from the clutches of Islam and gave me my human dignity. I tried desperately to join the effort… Agencies were hiring Muslims left and right: near illiterates, underemployed riffraff with deep seated hatred of the US. I was not discouraged and I took my first chance to join the war on terror with a private military contractor: instead of fighting the global menace, I participated in the biggest American fiasco since Vietnam nay the Civil war. I saw the incredible levels of Dhimmitude and stupidity and it sickened me. However, what sickened me to the core was my sorrow for the optimistic idealist soldiers who sought that they were doing something descent for both America and the Iraqis, and expected that they will turn a corner, change the world for the better, and protect their way of life… I came back heart broken for their tragic fate, dying more by the stupidity of the politicians who send them, the Generals who consider Aljazera in designing their rules of engagement rather than the life of their own.

I lived every failure in conception, planning, and command… I have seen the Muslim citizens of America acting with treason, arrogance, and malice and being rewarded for it, and dedicated infidels from the M.E. punished for their zeal. It got to the point of me saying what a waste? What is the point? Is Iraq worth dying for so the Shiites would have their theocratic state? The answer being no, I left that Hell whole.

Somebody jumps in freezing water to kill themselves and you jump after them… The person is heavy and he is fighting you trying to prevent you from rescuing him, you can not hold on any longer, do you let this person go now, and may be, just many be you have enough strength to swim to shore before hypothermia claims you or he pulls you down with him, you can not bear the guilt though, at this second you have to make the most difficult choice, what do you choose?

The common sense of this microcosmic scenario does not translate well to overall suicidal tendency of the West… I do not want to die for those not welling to save themselves and in the same time are fighting me, pulling me down with them… I do not see the sense or the morality of it… I just can not.

Posted by: have_mercy at November 7, 2005 1:06 AM

Hello Joiesauvage,

Yes, my mum took care of my brother and I alone. Working all the day and helping us with our homework in the evening. Who are they to call her "Bitch"? What do they know about the women they keep insulting?

I fed up by this and the socialist "motto": this is our fault if they are so revolted (no future, no work, etc.)...Doesn't work anymore with me.

I had to fight to get my job, i had to study and working for low paid job before getting my current one. This is simply what all Europeans/ western people do, there isn't anything "marvelous" about that. Why can't they do the same too? Why do they need special treatments?

They have no education, they act like pigs. They want all women dress like mommies. I think it is really the time to ask clearly if they want the western style of life or...To go back to a Muslim country where their "manners" will be more appropriate.

But I don't like far right extremist. because we all know that young muslims is only a part of their agenda. They will use our concern to bring back ideas pre world war II. I can't stand people like Lepen who deny the reality of the gaz chambers and all his cousins. I hope Europe won't make the same mistake twice. Sure the muslim problem will be solved but a bigger one will be on the table (end of the democracy, free speech, etc.).

This is a real problem. If we are against their manner, our only choice right now is people like Lepen and he will never get my vote. The other parties keep talking about the wonderful multicultural society, it looks like they all live in another dimension.

Thanks for all your comments and interesting links I've received. I will check them all.

Please do not think that All Europeans are against the USA. A lot of us still value the western culture and the neccessary solidarity between us.

Olivier

Posted by: olivier laurent at November 7, 2005 5:30 AM

We know, Olivier. Unfortunately, many of those who Do like are not in power in Europe.

Posted by: Gary at November 7, 2005 7:29 AM

"so what, the society I live in is not Islamic, and it isn't Muslims who deny me rights, like the right to enjoy the same privileges and responsibilities as Christian heterosexuals, and if Islam prevails then the Christians have it coming to them."

Yeah but Nariz, this idiot clearly isn't thinking with his round, spongy-type brain. You can't make a generalization from that. The persecution of gays has been going on for millenia in islamic countries, and far worse than here, and if people can't figure that out then there's really nothing that can be done to educate them.

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 7, 2005 9:29 AM