When they kill someone, we will speak.

Posted by: Franze at November 6, 2005 5:51 PM

Let them use guns. It will just legitimise our right to use guns in self defence.

Posted by: Voltaire at November 6, 2005 6:03 PM

It is sad but not unexpected to have the French cave into the muslims. The muslim leadership is not doing anthing to stop the violence. This should be an indication to everyone what their real intent is, shira law. How about this muslim leaders quote about how the French should handle things.From Myway News 11/6/05

Government officials have held a series of meetings with Muslim religious leaders, local officials and youths from poor suburbs to try to calm the violence.

The director of the Great Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, one of the country's leading Muslim figures, met Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin on Saturday and urged the government to choose its words carefully and send a message of peace.

"In such difficult circumstances, every word counts," Boubakeur said.

No apologies, no words of reconciliation from the muslims, no actions on his part to help stem the violence, just a warning to choose his words carefully. Like the rioters have done nothing wrong!

The French government has mislead its people into thinking it can assimilate the muslims into their culture and by trying to be their friends, has given the country what they deserve, violence. Chirac has curtsied to them like a little school girl. Now they have been fooled. The muslims are assimilating them!

Posted by: webo at November 6, 2005 6:10 PM

Many or most of the TV journalists are trying to "explain" the barbarism of the insurgents in France. One yo yo reporting from France on Fox, a Britisher, claimed that when he was in France 15 years ago the North African immigrants must have resented it very much when school principals even back then told the Muslim girls not to wear headscarves. And now, he complained, the ban on headscarves is "enshrined in law." So all the violence is due to the ban on headscarves. The French don't have the right to set rules for pupils in their public schools. Of course, in the USA parents who wanted a religious education for their kids founded religious schools, the Catholic parochial school system being the most notable example, and many of the parents were poor. There are private schools in France too. Of course, it might be better in some ways that they not operate their own schools. One can imagine what they might teach.

I don't buy the argument that the French have an obligation to bend over backwards for the Arabs. Any moral comparison between the Arabs in France and Blacks is false. After all, the Blacks were forced to come to America, forced to work as slaves and, after the Civil War in the USA, they were subject to jimcrow laws in the South, discrimination in the north, etc. The Arabs on the other hand, were raiding the French, Italian, and Spanish coasts for centuries, stealing goods, taking the population captive, selling them as slaves [prince charley seems to be unaware that this happened in Merry Olde Albion too]. The Arabs who came to France in the 1970s came of their own free will. What does France owe them?

To upset readers even more, I heard a report the other day from a French Jew living in Israel, his family too originally from North Africa. He is from Marseilles and there he said, the Arab presence had killed the city's night life years ago. Then he moved to Paris. Plenty of nightlife there, but then things changed there too and for the same reasons as in Marseilles. He said that the Champs Elysees, once full of joyful, celebrating people at night, was now quiet and deserted.

Posted by: Eliyahu at November 6, 2005 6:12 PM

I am waiting for Israel to advise France, Denmark and other European countries that it URGES RESTRAINT in dealing with their present situation.

chsw

Posted by: chsw at November 6, 2005 6:29 PM

first the bombs, now the guns, riots and inflammatory anti western rhetoric.

Thankfully the next volley will be from us, the silent majority, the hard working indigenous european tax payer, average joe bloggs from lands end England to the czech republic will answer with the ballot and the democratic vote and the hard right nationalist parties will sweep to power in every european nation and this jihadist menace will be over.

what an incredibly dumb enemy, thats our only saving grace.

Posted by: leom at November 6, 2005 6:30 PM

Eliyahu,

About two weeks ago, before these riots started, I read that the once thriving jazz clubs in Paris are now a ghost of their former self, that many have closed and those that have remained open now have few patrons. The picture accompanying the article showed a near desolate street with the shuttered clubs. Sorry, but I can't remember the source of the article. As a jaz and blues afficiando myself, I found that news quite distressing as I know the overwheling reception the jazz and blues greats once received in Paris.

Dante, in the Divine Comedy, placed Mohammed in the lowest level of hell. Adel Smith, an Italiam Islamofacist has called for Dante to be banned. A fresco inside the Duomo of Bologna also depicts a fresco showing Mohammed in hell. Muslims have made threats to the Vatican over this fresco. At the time that the Divine Comedy and the fresco originated, Muslims were actively invading the coasts of Italy. On Muslim invader used a church, I believe around Napoli, as a horse stable.

Posted by: Lisa at November 6, 2005 6:36 PM

At this point, I believe the Rioting has gone on too long. With all infrastructure disrupted for these ten days, food supplies have no doubt run dry to the point that these rioters MUST continue rioting and looting in order to obtain food. Of course, this is nothing new. The Janjaweed in Darfur are doing the exact same thing. Killing everything in their path because they destroyed their own means of sustanence.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 6:45 PM

My family in France has been waiting for the rioters to start using guns. This is the "breaking point", at which the French political class will either get its act together, or face the wrath of the electorate at the 2007 presidential polls.

It is obvious that Sarkozy has been held back by his political enemies (Chirac and company) as a means of discrediting him. Chirac assumed that the problem would die out by itself, and he guessed wrong.

The one problem France may have is that it may not be able to count on the Army. With 10+% of the troops Moslem, there are some who doubt the loyalty of the troops, or their willingness to put down rioters of their own faith.

What scares the politicians most is that the extreme right (Le Pen) is going to have a field day, and will use these problems to attack the current government.

No matter what happens, Chirac looses. Somehow, I can't feel sorry for his problems; they're all of his own making.

Posted by: kenprice at November 6, 2005 6:49 PM

I remember the caption on one of the Night Beach photos when I forwarded it to my sister from the LGF site, it was "There is no Hell, There is Only France"

Hell Indeed.

how aprobo!

Posted by: tsweeney at November 6, 2005 6:58 PM

Islamonline has it all figured out. It's a ZIONIST CONSPIRACY

http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2005-11/06/article05.shtml

Foul Play

Residents look at the burnt out commercial centre Evreux, 96km (60 miles) west of Paris. (Reuters).

UOIF's chairman Lhaj Thami Breze cast doubt over the parties behind the accelerating violence.

He accused several parties, including far-rightists and Zionist lobby, of fishing in the troubled water to "smear the image of Muslims and Arabs".

The Muslim leader said many of the incidents involving the burning of public properties remain ambiguous.

"The rioting, which started as a spontaneous reaction, is not like that anymore. Some parties are feeding these incidents," Breze charged.

"The perpetrators of such actions can never be Muslims," he averred.

The Muslim leaders argued that some parties, including right extremists, did not like what Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy has done in favor of Muslims.

Sarkozy was one of the staunch supporters for establishing the CFCM and supervised its first election in April 2003.

Posted by: Silvester at November 6, 2005 6:58 PM

Nobody has the slightest clue what is going on here at all. First, riots are unconditionally banned in the Quran. Second, most of these kids are 2nd and 3rd generation French and most do not even attend a mosque.

This is social trouble and is not motivated from islamic fundamentalism. In fact, there are Non-Muslims rioting also. This is the same thing that would have happened in Watts or Detroit (Bapist Christians) if the National Guard was not called in immediately. These are gangs of criminals and people frustrated with French society in general. Blaming Islam for this is the equivalent of blaming Christianity for the student riots in 1968 in France.

When the military is sent in, this is going to calm down immediately and these kids are going to go back to their neighborhoods.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:05 PM

Well, no need to worry, Chirac has just announced that establishing order is now a priority. Ten days after the riots start, and he suddenly comes to this conclusion? He deserves one of Catherine's gold stars, you ask me.

Also, here is an article outlining a possible path to peace. I found it here:

http://www.arutzsheva.com/article.php3?id=5720

Got That "Ooo La La, Intifada" Feeling?
by Steven Plaut
Nov 06, '05 / 4 Cheshvan 5766



Well, there are very few things as amusing these days as watching the French grapple with their backyard intifada. The suburbs of Paris are now more dangerous than Jenin, and the French are getting their comeuppance for decades of snootiness, for anti-American and anti-Israel agitprop, for decades of cowardice, and especially for the repulsive French love of old Jerry Lewis movies.

Paris is now being targeted by violent rioting hordes. For years, the French accused American racism of having produced the race riots in the US in the 1960s and 1970s, as well as the Los Angeles riots after the Rodney King business. And the French are sure that only Jewish cussedness and just plain Israeli evil lie behind the behavior of the Palestinian pogromchiki. The Gall of dem Galls!

Well, now that the French are experiencing their own intifada, we suggest that they resolve the problem using the very same plan that they have been trying for decades to impose upon Israel. Yes, comrades, it is time to implement the Land for Peace Plan, Paris-style. Here it is:

The French Solution: Land for Peace

So after leading the Solidarity-with-the-Baathists movement in Europe during the recent Gulf War, France is now enjoying its own intifada by urban Muslim resistance fighters, in suburban Paris. Of course, this is all on top of France's long history of supporting Islamist fascism and Palestinian terrorism.

Now, a few years back, during a trip to Israel, French Prime Minister Lionel Jospin urged Israel to make concessions for peace. More interesting yet, in documents relating to his visit, Jerusalem was called the ''capital of the Palestinian Authority.'' And what do the French consider to be the capital of Israel? Tel Aviv, of course. This trip followed by a few years a visit made by President Jacques Chirac, who used the occasion of his visit in 1996 to announce that ''Syria has a moral right to demand return of the Golan Heights.''

These French politicians may be on to something important. Never one to back down from a challenge, I have prepared a set of proposals for consideration by the French people, so that not only can they preserve peace in Parisian suburbia, but they too can achieve a full, lasting and just peace with their urban resistance opponents.

First, until this plan is implemented in full, we must insist that the French government acknowledge that there is no military or police solution to the problems of violence in its suburbs, and only through recognizing the legitimacy of the demands of the murderers and rioters outside Paris can the problems be resolved.

Second, we all agree that territory must not be annexed by force. Therefore, we can also agree that Germany has a moral right to demand the return of Alsace-Lorraine, for the French aggression in 1945 and its consequent occupation must not be rewarded. ''A full withdrawal for full peace'' should operate here. Further, France must agree to the return and rehabilitation of all ethnic Germans expelled from Alsace-Lorraine after World Wars I and II, as well as all those they define as their descendents.

But this, of course, is just the first step toward a solution, as no aggression can be rewarded, and France has much other stolen territory to return. It took Corsica from Genoa, Nice and Savoy from Piedmont. As the successor state, Italy must get back all these lands. By similar token, territories grabbed from the Hapsburgs go back to Austria, including Franche-Comte, Artois and historic Burgundy. The Roussillon area (along the Pyrenees) must be returned to Spain, its rightful owner. And Normandy, Anjou, Aquitaine and Gascony must be returned to their rightful owners - the British royal family.

Not even this is enough for the sake of peace. Brittany and Languedoc must be granted autonomy at once, recognizing the Breton and Occitan liberation organizations as their legal rulers. This leaves the French government in control over the Ile de France (the area around Paris).

That, however, still does not solve the problem of the Holy City of Paris, sacred to artists, gourmets and adulterers. The Corsicans obviously have a historic claim to the Tomb of the Emperor Napoleon, their famed son, as well as the Invalides complex and beyond. For the sake of peace, is it too much to ask that Paris be the capital for two peoples? The French authorities must agree to prevent French Parisians from even entering the sacred tomb area, lest this upset the Corsicans.

The Saint Chapelle and the Church of Notre Dame, of course, will be internationalized, under joint Vatican-art-historical auspices. Indeed, the French should consider it a compliment of the highest order that so many people see Paris as an international city.

The French have nothing to complain about. They will enjoy the benefits of peace and retain control of the Champs Elysees.

Actually, come to think of it, even the Champs Elysees may be too much. Recalling the French position that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel, perhaps the true French capital is not Paris at all, but Vichy.

I think this is a reasonable proposal, don't you?

Cindy

Posted by: libbysmom at November 6, 2005 7:10 PM

Ryan "riots are unconditionally banned in the Quran"

This article might give you food for thought:
Jihad and Religious Riot

http://www.bharatvani.org/books/jihad/ch10.htm

Posted by: Silvester at November 6, 2005 7:15 PM

Only 5% of French "Muslims" attend a mosque regularly
Only 20% attend a mosque at all

80% of French Muslims have never seen the inside of a mosque.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:18 PM

"First, riots are unconditionally banned in the Quran."
Actually, it is sanctioned even to kill another muslim, let alone an infidel, if it is for the greater good of Islam.

"In fact, there are non-muslims rioting also."
Muslims claim members of other sects/kinds of muslims to not be muslims, and have killed each other as such accordingly. (See Darfur, Iraq, Iran, ect...)

"Blaming Islam for this is the equivalent of blaming Christianity for the student riots in 1968 in France."
Except for the fact that these non-muslims were quoted as saying "This is war", and also the fact that when their Imams came out to tell them to stop, they actually accepted the authority of the Imams rather than the authority of the police or the government (for about an hour before Rioting started again)

Liberal brainwashing doesn't work here. Try CNN.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 7:19 PM

Ryan,

Do the Muslims really think they are rioting or "resisting oppression"?

Qu'ran 2:191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Qu'ran 2:193
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

Also, ff there are non-Muslims rioting (and I don't doubt it), what do you think the ratio is between non-Muslims to Muslims rioting? And would that be significant in any way?

Posted by: igor at November 6, 2005 7:20 PM

Arabs and Muslims must be enjoying every minute. They know that if Christians were rioting in Muslim lands due to their perceptions of persecution and injustice -- they'd be slaughtered on the spot - no questions asked. Subsitute Jew for Christian, and the slaughter would go beyond the rioters, it would include every Jewish man woman and child.
Muslim culture is BARBARIC. Their religion is BARBARIC. The West is simply too tolerant and fairminded to endure the ravages of their swamp culture, and their sewer religion...

Posted by: jsla at November 6, 2005 7:20 PM

OKay, What about the fact that these people are muslim in name alone don't people understand?? Only 5% of French Muslims attend a Mosque regularly. Those are generally the most recent immigrants and older people. These kid DO NOT attend mosques.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:25 PM

Yes, if they attended mosques, they would know that suicide bombing was much more effective.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 7:29 PM

What does not attending mosque have to do with anything? Al Qaeda sleeper terrorists are encouraged not to attend mosque so as not to appear too religious and to avoid suspicion.What is important is that the perps identify themselves as Muslim. There must be some reason why these "youths" were chanting "god is great" as they rioted and burned property in France. I know of no group other then Muslims who chant "god is great" during violent attacks.

Posted by: Roxane at November 6, 2005 7:31 PM

Please find me a link where anybody was chanting "God is Great" while burning something in France.

Al Qaeda sleeper cells are people who used to attend a mosque regularly and fanatically and then decided to go undercover by not attending one.

Most of these kids have NEVER even seen the inside of a mosque.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:33 PM

Wow man, where'd ya get the acid?

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 6, 2005 7:35 PM

sonofwalker:

I'm just upset that this site is starting to get very dangerous and is encouraging violence. This is no different than Osama Bin Laden saying that all Christians and Jews are bad or Hitler saying that all Jews are bad.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:37 PM

"Never attend mosque regularly"
The problem with your logic is that Islam, as a religious movement, formed as a reaction against middle-man organized religion. The idea of needing an intermediary, such as a priest or a statue, in order to access heaven was considered vile and idolotrous.
You forgot to take the very essense of Islam into account in your defense of Islam. Unless, of course, you would deny the very tenets of Islam in your defense of it. Be my guest.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 7:40 PM

I'm not dismissing the role of the rioters in this. The cause of this riot is the failure of French citizens of North African and Subsaharan African origin to properly integrate into French society. This is a result of a combination of prejudice towards them and their own lack of will to do so. But this is not a testament to the evil nature of islam!

If that was so, American muslims would live in the same squalor and be rioting also. American muslims are middle class and are contributing to their society.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:41 PM

Two words.
Critical Mass.

Phase One. USA. Small percentage of muslims.
Phase Two. France. Medium percentage of muslims.
Phase Three. Darfur. All Muslim, except for those in Darfur. They aren't REAL Muslims because they are black.
Phase Four. Iran. Ethnically cleansed Islamofascist paradise.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 7:45 PM

A poster above keeps making what he thinks is an important point; to wit, that "most of these rioters" do not attend mosques. So what? Mosques can be centers of whipping people up, but so pervasive is Islam, so omnipresent in the thinking, and the attitudes, and the atmospherics, in which Muslims live, the very atmosphere of inculcated hostility toward all Infidels, and the simultaneous keen awareness of the right, and the duty, to spread Islam through Jihad until it conquers everywhere, and everywhere Muslims obtain their rightful position of dominance.

It is true that many Muslims do not attend mosques. The existence of mosques no doubt makes the problem worse, but it is not a question of their presence being necessary. Even a lone Muslim or two, living far from any conceivable mosque, can drink deep of the well of hatred that Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira provide, or can exhibit the reflexive hatred that need not even come from his own reading of the Qur'an, but what he hears through, say, a satellite television program, or plucks out of the atmosphere -- knowing, authomatically, that he must take the side of fellow Muslims always and everywhere against the Infidels, always to be detested because -- well, because they are Infidels. And that's all he needs to know.

A very few Muslims, the most morally and intellectually advanced, can ignore or jettison all of this. But most cannot. And that is the problem for Infidels -- that most cannot, and will not, and cannot be made to. So they must be contained, constrained, and their every act monitored, their numbers limited and attempts made constantly to limit the effect both of Da'wa on vulnerable Infidels, and of any overbreeding that contributes to demographic conquest. There are a thousand ways to deal with this, but until there are is greater understanding of what is contained in Qur'an and Hadith, and what the Life of Muhammad teaches, and what attitudes naturally arise from those canonical texts, the right measures will not be conceived, much less put into effect.

Posted by: Hugh at November 6, 2005 7:46 PM

Okay Ryan here's an excerpt and a link to the article that reports that "god is great" was chanted by the rioters.
____________________________________________

But how did it all start? The accepted account is that sometime last week a group of young boys in Clichy engaged in one of their favorite sports: Stealing parts of parked cars. Normally, nothing dramatic would have happened as the police have not been present in that suburb for years. The problem came when one of the inhabitants, a female busybody, telephoned the police and reported the thieving spree taking place just opposite her building. The police were thus obliged to do something that meant entering a city that, as noted, had been a no-go area for them. Once the police arrived on the scene the youth, who had been reigning over Clichy pretty unmolested for years, got really angry. A brief chase took place in the street and two of the youths, who were not actually chased by the police, sought refuge in a cordoned off area housing a power pylon. Both were electrocuted. Once news of their death was out, Clichy was all up in arms. With cries of “God is Great”, bands of youths armed with whatever they could get hold of went on a rampage and forced the police to flee. The French authorities, however, could not allow a band of youths to expel the police from part of the French territory. So, they hit back by sending in Special Forces, known as the CRS, with armored cars and tough rules of engagement.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=72731

Posted by: Roxane at November 6, 2005 7:51 PM

Encouraging Violence? This site does not condone nor encourage violence. However, the vast majority of the people here condone and encourage:

The toppling of Saddam's murderous reign.
The prevention of Iran acquiring Nuclear Weapons.
The toppling of Sudan's Islamofascist government that condones and encourages the genocide in Darfur.
Containing the spread of Islamofascism.
The ending of the practice of female circumcision.
The ending of terrorist activities carried out by Islamofascists bend on establishing Islamofascism all over the world.

Funny how those liberals who are so pro-women's rights are also so pro-Islam, as the two are ADAMANTLY opposed to one another.

Posted by: Nqamah Ben Mavet at November 6, 2005 7:51 PM

NBM, a very good point.

Ryan, how do you know they don't attend a mosque? Earlier you were saying that the authorities can't be trusted and now you say they can be trusted for the survey. You like to ignore the quotes of rioters about how this is their territory.

For a long period of time, Muslims immigrating to the U.S. were fairly secular. However, for the past 25 years, with the help of Saudi money, they are becoming more radicalized. Notice though, that there is no serious U.S. Muslim opposition to this return to Koranic values. Why? Because the Koran is true to the Muslim and as they learn more they become more dangerous.

Posted by: Terrahawk at November 6, 2005 7:55 PM

arabnews.com, now there's a great source for news

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 7:59 PM

Ryan oh Ryan:
Assuming that we all here a bunch of blood thirsty infidel monsters in the West that you think we are…. Why do not you pick up and move to the land of peace and bliss, Arabia? You are really a worthless excuse for a human being… Your God d----d folks are burning down the whole world, mass raping, and murdering, destroying, persecuting, threatening the end of civilization and mankind descending into oblivion or utter barbarism and slavery, and you dare to come lecture us. Ryan my a-s: you are the son of a Khadija or a Fatima and not a Mary or an Elisabeth… Go tell you cousins to calm the hick down and wait a short while to out breed the infidels.

Posted by: have_mercy at November 6, 2005 8:02 PM

Ryan said:

Nobody has the slightest clue what is going on here at all. First, riots are unconditionally banned in the Quran. Second, most of these kids are 2nd and 3rd generation French and most do not even attend a mosque.

Actually, Ryan we do know what is going on. Did you hear video tapes of people shouting allah akbar when they were throwing incendiary devices? I suppose the Mossad tampered with these video images in real time. Ryan, people from Sub Sahara Africa can be Moslems too. Surely you know that. Surely you know the murders and rapes and pillaging take place in many parts of Sub Sahara Africa are being done by Black Moslems too.

If the Immams want this to stop they need to go outside and start slapping the kids around like they do their wives. Gently, but firmly. When I see Immams and other bearded muktatas beating rioters, I will consider what you say. But fatwas days later from insincere clerics that sound like double speak or pronoucements from the Oracle of Delphi are not persuasive.

The real issue here is that the neighborhoods where these riots started are already policed by the Mosques. That is part of the problem France faces, the intifada has started in parts of Paristine and Francostine that already live under European sharia law of the Caliphate.

Posted by: David England at November 6, 2005 8:02 PM

from post above:

"I'm just upset that this site is starting to get very dangerous" - ryan

Now this is RICH -- so this site, dedicated to informing and warning about the mortal threats we face from the Jihadis -- this site that's been warning about the seditious and restive Muslim population in Europe for years -- this site which has accurately predicted this turn of events, and which is dedicated to preserving our hard won and precious freedoms against the barbaric onslaught from Islam and Islamic fascism --

THIS SITE IT STARTING TO GET VERY DANGEROUS???

What are you some kind of NUT?

Posted by: jsla at November 6, 2005 8:02 PM

from post above:

"I'm just upset that this site is starting to get very dangerous" - ryan

Now this is RICH -- so this site, dedicated to informing and warning about the mortal threats we face from the Jihadis -- this site that's been warning about the seditious and restive Muslim population in Europe for years -- this site which has accurately predicted this turn of events, and which is dedicated to preserving our hard won and precious freedoms against the barbaric onslaught from Islam and Islamic fascism --

THIS SITE IT STARTING TO GET VERY DANGEROUS???

What are you some kind of NUT?

Posted by: jsla at November 6, 2005 8:02 PM

No, I'm Catholic have_mercy. Please don't tell me what my religion is. I do not want to move to Arabia because my life is here. But I know Christians who have moved to Arabia and they liked it.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 8:03 PM

Ryan you are a very confused individual. islam isnt just a religion,it is an ideology. Actually it goes beyond that too it is a culture. People dont necessary have to be practicing their faith or even believe to be affected by the morality or values of the the culture they are immersed in. For example there are a lot of secular non practicing people in the west but most of their values of what is good or evil are based on the cultural influences of Christianity or Judaism. Or in other cultures Hinduism, buddhism etc. I know a lot of people deny this. They are either wrong or they are right but morally confused. Anyways. Islam is a culture that lacks individuality. So yes there are individual muslims that are good. But when whipped up by a mob they lose their individualism and are capable of quite some heinous acts. Also it is a culture that instills victomhood into its members. There is no self criticism or inward searching in Islam. Mohomed has all the answers and all the blame for all ills rests with the infidels.

Also I might add the 5% attending moque stat is bogus. I hope this helped clarify your confusion.

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 6, 2005 8:12 PM

pissedoffcanadian:

5% attend on a regular basis
15% attend sporadically
80% never attend

That is of French muslims, not muslims overall.

Posted by: Ryan at November 6, 2005 8:21 PM

Ryan, do your Christian friends attend the beheadings and hand slicings every Friday. I know your Christian friends do not attend church because there are none. Most Western people I know who have observed sharia Friday think it sickening, a war crime and perhaps a crime against humanity.

Posted by: David England at November 6, 2005 8:24 PM

"I know Christians who have moved to Arabia and they liked it."

Tis to laugh. Ryan ... what are you smoking?

Posted by: Mentat at November 6, 2005 8:29 PM

Ryan,
If you are really a catholic, you are a great credit to your faith! I know about these non-Christian Catholics who think Christ was just a good man, abortion is “A” ok, lets bring all the Muslims that we can here and help them get established. But oh boy: you just reek of Islam and not of a liberal douche-bag Kennedy-type Catholic. I could be wrong, but that is beside the point.

Well, having seen Islamic mobs with my own eyes, a continual occurrence in my country of origin for the last 1350 years or so, I say that the participants run the gamut of all classes, education levels, devotion levels, from the Imam down to the sundry boy-prostitute plying his trade in an ally for a loaf of bread… They all forget their differences as they descend on the hapless infidels with religious fervor that would shake the throne of God on high.

Posted by: have_mercy at November 6, 2005 8:29 PM

What is next Ryan, you will call for the authorities to ban this site? Should the people who run this site should be treated to the same Islamic love that bloggers in Egypt get?

Islam badly needs a reformation. Currently it seems to be entirely too correlated with barbaric, sexist, violent, cruel behavior. Even in first world countries Islam is slowly showing its colors - note the attempt to impose Sharia in Canada for instance

Posted by: fnord123 at November 6, 2005 8:31 PM

"I do not want to move to Arabia because my life is here."
-- from a posting above

If "Ryan" is not a citizen, the choice may not be his. If he is a citizen, and perjured himself in taking the oath of allegiance, he may lose his citizenship. So perhaps his life is not permanently "here." Events will decide what kinds of measures are deemed justifiable in the future. And the phrase "because my life is here" is not exactly a stirring endorsement of this country, not that anyone was expecting an excerpt from "Why I Am An American" or the other anthology items that immigrants in the golden age, 1900-1930, found so stirring -- and rightly.

"I do not want to move to Arabia because my life is here" -- that's cold, indifferent, distant.

Tellingly so.

Posted by: Hugh at November 6, 2005 8:31 PM

By Ryan:
" I'm just upset that this site is starting to get very dangerous and is encouraging violence "
" I'm Catholic"

Methinks Ryan is a sleeper jihadi Muslim. Infiltrate enemy camp with a false identity, pretend to sympathize, deviously insert the real agenda, go to the town with news about the
'very dangerous' enemy, trying to increase his (jihadi)credibility by 'first hand unbiased experience'. Many Liberals must fall for it, no ?

Posted by: lazysusan at November 6, 2005 8:34 PM

Ryan,

You are totally ignorant about the Muslim religion. You said you are a Catholic?

How about trying to live for a little while in Indonesia, better yet in Central Sulawesi in Indonesia, where the Muslims had just beheaded 3 students on their way to their Catholic church.

Try living on the Island of Java in Indonesia, where lots of churches have been forcefully closed by Islamist thugs recently (luckily no burning of churches this year), where if you're having a prayer meeting in your home, you might get a visit from the local muslim thugs that demand that you stop your prayer meeting.

How would you feel if you were prohibited from building your church because the local muslim thugs said so.

I saw a news report saying that the Muslim thugs in France has burned a chu8rch building somewhere. What irony. In Indonesia, people from the the majority religion (Islam) has burned hundreds of churches belonging to the minorities (Christians) during the years. In France, it is the minority who burned a church belonging to the majority.

Posted by: jasmine at November 6, 2005 8:50 PM

Ryan may well be a good catholic. After mass today, I suggested to the priest that it might be wise to include to prayer for the forces of law and law order keeping the barbarians at bay from central Paris.

He turned away to shake someone else's hand.

Posted by: Sebastien at November 6, 2005 9:17 PM

Ryan,

I assume the figures for mosque attendance are those for the government sponsored ones. The attendees in this case would be those Muslims who just want to get on with lives and keep a low profile. At these mosques they will hear sermons about charity, sobriety and obedience to one's parents - the good stuff. A significant number of the other 80% would rather hear about jihad and evil Jews hiding behind stones come doomsday. Hence the low turnout Friday nights. If the French were to allow Jew baiting imans from Gaza to work their magic you'll see the irreligious youth become pious Muslims overnight.
Which will be even more worrisome than now since they tend to work out their piety by blowing up cafes or slamming planes into skyscrapers.

Posted by: ivan at November 6, 2005 9:19 PM

Ryan,
You have every right to defend Islam. By the way, what percent of those Muslims think that terrorism against the US and Israel is justified. What percent think that Iran should be allowed to have nuclear weapons? What percent think Israel is responsible for 9/11?
Honestly, I suggest you follow a newspaper, even a biased one, like the NY times, for
evidence that Islam is "peaceful".... Indonesia (Jamat e Islamia), Bali, the Phillipines, the West bank, Iran, The London subway, the Cole, Netanya, the World trade center-- The FACT IS THAT OSAMA IS THE GREATEST HERO IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY!!!!
Just repeat that as a mantra, you third column lib... OSAMA BIN LADEN IS SO POPULAR IN PAKISTAN THAT MUSHARAFFF IS AFRAID TO CAPTURE HIM.
Can you imagine Tim Mcveigh so popular in the USA- it would mean that america was really backward, wouldn't it. Meditate on that, dude.

Posted by: templar at November 6, 2005 9:42 PM

If this "Ryan" (my, that sounds so apple-pie American, of solid Irish heritage, no doubt, and almost as good as "soccer mom") thinks this site fosters violence, perhaps he should visit one of the jahidi web sites. (in truth, something tells me he already does, and frequently)

Better yet, call CAIR. Have them bring suit to shut this web site down. A loud, public, first amendment suit. Robert would have to find a new host, though. Those 400,000 hits per day would increase tenfold.

Posted by: Infidel33 at November 6, 2005 10:35 PM

Ryan said: "I'm just upset that this site is starting to get very dangerous..."

Show me PROOF where Muslims police themselves, take the global lead in going after radicals, or is the rest of the world's responsibility to clean up Islam.

Ryan said: "arabnews.com, now there's a great source for news"

Now there's a great source for deception, inconsistency, false accusation and general dishonor.

Ryan said: "Please don't tell me what my religion is."

Gee, please don't tell us what this site is.

Maybe you could take more than 2 minutes to put your liberal, nonsense unproven 'moral equivalency' arguments to the test and GO LIVE IN IRAN.

Posted by: Report at November 6, 2005 10:42 PM

Ryan,
I am a Catholic too but I don't believe in being a dhimmi for groups who have made it blatently clear that they want to kill me because I refuse to believe in Allah and his prophet Muhammed. Islam is not a peacful religion, if you think it is go and ask the families of the victims of 9/11, ask the families of the victims of 3/11, the families of the Bali bombings and so on. You are truly a disillusioned man.

Posted by: delia7 at November 6, 2005 11:04 PM

Ryan,

I have been working in Saudi Arabia for almost 8 years. I work directly with Saudis. As individuals, they are pretty much like everyone else. As a group though, you cannot ever forget they are Muslims.

Religious services - Westerners are pretty safe holding prayer meetings at home in their residential compounds. For others, it is more risky. About twice a month, the Arab News reports Christians being arrested then deported for trying to hold any kind of religious services. Saudi customs officials have frequently confiscated Bibles which are then shredded or burned.

On a more humorous note, I have a cookbook with the entire pork section cut out.

Actually, the Arab News - at least the English language edition - is pretty good. Compared to 6 or 8 years ago, some of the topics covered are surprising. OTOH, the Arab and English editions DO differ.

And last: "I know Christians who have moved to Arabia and they liked it." That is true, but misleading. It is more accurate to say, "We will leave when the bad points outweigh the good points."

jay

Posted by: jay at November 6, 2005 11:22 PM

Infidel33 said: Those 400,000 hits per day would increase tenfold.
Wow! This site gets 400,000 hits a day?
That's f@#$ing AWESOME!!!!

Posted by: templar at November 7, 2005 12:13 AM

With reference to a recent Mr.Robert Spencer “Paris Burning” in “Frontpage Magazine”, it would be good to understand what is an author speaking of while asserting "the rioters are part of a population that has never considered itself French. Nor do French officials seem able or willing to face that this is the core of their problem today"?

One acknowledged with Australian reality for instance would hardly quarrel with a statement that de-facto anti-Semitic neo-racist Australian multiculturalism is the same facet of an issue: surely, considering non-Celto-Anglo population as "Australians" on the Australian Day and during elections is the similar attitude to the "lower races". And even the most keen to drink beer at the Melbourne Cup would hardly find any ease while applying for jobs outside t h e I r communities.

Posted by: Michael Kerjman at November 7, 2005 1:27 AM

Hello Again JWatchers
At last Internet is up and running after heaps of trouble with my computer.
Can't wait to get my hands on Robert Spencer's latest book - am not surprised it is on Best Seller List!
Argument about Hijabs being to blame for disaffected Muslims youths does not hold water as
Turkey (that secular Islamic Country) forbids wearing 'em in Public places. Besides who else torches cars and shoots at Police over Headscarves...!! Any pretext will do methinks.
Suggest Dork Chirac bring in the Troops - this should have been done much earlier. All these angry youths ought to be deported to a Middle East Hellhole where deprived of Social Welfare Benefits and Democracy they can experience first hand the joys of living under Sharia. After
amputations and beatings, ritual beheadings, you won't hear a dickey bird from them and France can
save money and hopefully learn from its mistakes.

Posted by: Morgane at November 7, 2005 5:05 AM

Morgane
How lovely to see you again.
:-)

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at November 7, 2005 7:36 AM

'Westerners are pretty safe holding prayer meetings at home in their residential compounds. '~ Jay

Take note, Ryan: Compounds. Behind walls. Out of sight of the Faithful.

Posted by: Gary at November 7, 2005 9:13 AM

Of course, being a good Catholic, Ryan would be able to state in his own words the meaning of the Trinity, and each of the positional statements on the Nicene and/or Apostles' Creed, and then state how he thinks Jesus is in fact God.

No?

Prophet Geoff [beer be upon me]

Posted by: Geoff at November 7, 2005 9:24 AM

And I wonder why he can't admit he was wrong, either: he demanded evidence of the rioters chanting the slogan of hate, and when presented with it, no back-off at all.

It sort of makes you wonder what the purpose of his coming here is.

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 7, 2005 9:26 AM

"It sort of makes you wonder what the purpose of his coming here is."

It makes you wonder if "Ryan" has any relationship to "Ia786" -- same m.o. -- same arguments...

Posted by: jsla at November 7, 2005 10:35 AM

Ryan:

The rioters don't have to attend mosques to hear the message of jihad. That was noted back in July in the UK, where some of the most virulent bile was being preached on street corners. In fact, France has taken to deporting the mullahs and imams who were so indiscreet as to do their raging inside a mosque, so that's not the source of infection.

You seem on other threads to want to put all of this down to poverty and bigotry. All immigrant communities face all sorts of obstacles in France and elsewhere, and many receive fewer social benefits, but few seem to turn into lumpen communities to the broad extent that Muslim communities do.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 7, 2005 1:02 PM

France--

Do you STILL believe Israel to be a "small, shitty" country?

Are you still engaged in an "eternal war" with the United States, "a vital war" as Francois Mitterand stated some years ago?

If the answer remains 'yes,' why should anyone care about you now?

Posted by: pythagoras at November 7, 2005 1:42 PM