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D. C. Watson offers some interesting quotes related to the recent CAIR/JW controversy:
Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
On November 8, 2005, the Council on American Islamic Relations posted a column on their website entitled: “CA Synagogue That Hosted Islamophobe Urged to Invite Muslim Speaker,” which included the following footnote: “Hate-filled comments on speaker’s website compare Muslims to animals and Nazis.”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008906.php
The so-called “Islamophobe”: Robert Spencer
The website: Jihad Watch
Is this supposed to be their big idea of challenging critics, as they proposed doing at the Islamic Society of North America’s 42nd annual convention? The one that I addressed here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008033.php
That’s it? Name calling? Predictably anemic, but par for the course.
Phobia: "A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous."
Question: At what point exactly, do Islamic scholars become “Islamophobes”? How does someone who has studied Islam for more than two, and in some cases three decades, become afraid of it?
Answer: They don’t. Unfortunately for CAIR and their ilk, the speeches and writings of authors like Spencer, Pipes, Ye’or, Sina, Fitzgerald, Emerson, and many others have no sugar-coating. What is spoken and written is raw, and unprocessed.
If they are incorrect about what they say and write, what is stopping the Council on American Islamic Relations from stepping on stage with them and presenting their points?
Regarding their complaint about the “hate filled comments” at Jihad Watch that “compare Muslims to animals and Nazis”: Tell them once, tell them a thousand times. This is America, and Americans are free to like and dislike whatever they damn well please. Free to talk about it, free to write about it, free to draw cartoons about it, and free to sing about it.
Americans are aware that not every Muslim in the world possesses the desire to be the ruler of the world. If this were not the case, Muslims wouldn’t kill other Muslims in the large volumes that they do.
Are there similarities between the mindsets of Nazis and Islamic jihadists?
Review of some of the words of Islamic leaders and words of Adolph Hitler. What shakes out is -- well, you decide.
Adolph Hitler: "Was there any form of filth or crime...without at least one Jew involved in it. If you cut even cautiously into such a sore, you find like a maggot in a rotting body, often dazzled by the sudden light - a Jew." http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Jews_Nazi_Germany.htmAl-Azhar Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, top-ranking cleric in the Sunni Muslim world: Jews: "The enemies of Allah, descendants of apes and pigs."
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01102Adolph Hitler: "The Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end.......spying on the unsuspicious German girl he plans to seduce..........He wants to contaminate her blood and remove her from the bosom of her own people."
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Jews_Nazi_Germany.htmSaudi Sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis: Jews: "The scum of the human race, the rats of the world, the violators of pacts and agreements, the murderers of the prophets, and the offspring of apes and pigs."
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01102It appears that these comparisons have also taken care of distinguishing who compares whom to animals.
On the topic of bigotry and “hate speech”, here are some examples of prominent Muslims doing exactly what they continually accuse their critics of:
Sheikh Omar Bakri: "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians…Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value." "We will use your democracy to destroy your democracy."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2005/07/007262print.htmlOmar Ahmad, Former Chairman of the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR): “Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran…should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32341Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris: “We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain.” “Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”
http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=669Abu Hamza al-Masri, Islamic Cleric: "The real weapons of mass destruction are the desire for martyrdom. Millions of you are ready to be shaheed. Half a million martyrdom shaheed is enough for Muslims to control the whole of earth forever. In the end of the day, Islam must control earth, whether we like it or not."
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/10435138?source=Evening%20StandardMahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iranian President, on Israel: "a disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the face of the earth". "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury, while any Islamic leader who recognizes the Zionist regime means he is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1601414,00.htmlIbrahim Hooper, CAIR: “I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6473Abu Bakr, Muslim Cleric: "I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate. The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, has to be Islam"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/07/australia.terror.bakr/With all this evidence, does CAIR actually think that Americans and the West are supposed to read the trash being spewed by leading Muslims and act as if they have never read it? If they are the spokespersons for Islam, and this is what comes out of their mouths, are free societies supposed to roll out the red carpet for Islam? If this is what they truly believe, then it would appear that they have greatly underestimated the backbone of freedom, and those who live in it.
Posted by Robert at November 10, 2005 5:39 AM
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Muslim bigotry is so very obvious. Muslims are in denial or refuse to accept the fact of their bigotry because its wrapped in the protective blanket of Islam and outlined as correct in Koran. Of course, every instance of non-Muslim bigotry against them is made into a capital offense.
Posted by: epg![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 10, 2005 8:09 AM
RE: Tell them once, tell them a thousand times. This is America, and Americans are free to like and dislike whatever they damn well please. Free to talk about it, free to write about it, free to draw cartoons about it, and free to sing about it.
The above is the most important thing that can be said and the fact that CAIR doesn't understand that stems from the intolerant nature of Islam which is codified in the Qu'ran.
And not only CAIR, but the proponents of "political correctness" are guilty of the same and I will defend forever the principle of free speech or die trying.
Posted by: learjet0450 at November 10, 2005 8:10 AM
Learjet, you may like this Free Speech site:
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/topic/11
at November 10, 2005 8:14 AM
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, however, I can discern the value of a belief system by its works. In Islam vs Western Civilisation, I'll take the west everytime.
Posted by: scooter at November 10, 2005 8:51 AM
Debate an Islamist on this issue and you will inevitibly hear one logical fallacy after another. Circular reasoning is an Islamist hallmark. They also engage in relativist spew that justifies Islamic terrorism by pointing out Western excesses of the past, as if that somehow makes mass-murder OK. They remind me of errant children who justify their misbehavior by claiming their sibling did it too... but sadly they do not engage in child's play.
Their two favorite lines: "Hitler was a Christian" and "The Jews Killed Jesus" are oft repeated in hopes of dividing their perceived enemies. Then of course there is the ever-popular "Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth"
If one points out the ridiculous nature of these arguments, and exposes the truth about Islamic terrorism, they can expect heaps of hateful ad hominem abuse from their arrogant, pious opponent. It is clear that islamists are no match for a well-informed debater.
Mention the obvious fact that the Qur'an is filled with hatred for non-Muslims and incitement to violence against women, apostates, and non-Muslims and you will hear all manner of equivocation and back-pedaling.
And finally, ask an Islamist what time it is, and they will talk about the weather.
Posted by: donchicago48 at November 10, 2005 12:12 PM
DC Watson: Tell them once, tell them a thousand times. This is America, and Americans are free to like and dislike whatever they damn well please. Free to talk about it, free to write about it, free to draw cartoons about it, and free to sing about it.
Learjet:"The above is the most important thing that can be said..."
Swami:If you dont have that, you should fight to get it, if you do have that you should fight to keep it.
These concepts are unknown in Islam and when they become known, they are repressed. Personally, I have no desire to live under the Islamic yoke, and will not submit to it...
at November 10, 2005 1:13 PM
Islam contains STRONG bigotry within its ideology, going so far as to command extermniation of followers of the Judaic faith. Who are Muslims to talk about bigotry???
Since Islam advocates if not institutionalizes massacre of non-Muslims ("Slay the idolaters everywhere....." check the verses in the Qur'an) and has built an infrastructure to do this with (terror networks such as Hizbollah, al-Qaeda, the International Death Battalion and other lovely groups) fear is neither irrational nor unmerited here. Thus the tern 'phobia' does not apply to most people who react against Islamic ideology. This reaction IS rational and warranted.
Thirdly, Hitler was inspired by Islam and even conspired with such Muslim 'extremists' as Haj al-Husseini and al-Banna. Hitler RENOUNCED Christianity in toto. Once you violate the 10 commandments as Hitler you are no longer CHristian. Period.
Posted by: pythagoras at November 10, 2005 2:38 PM
I wonder if it hasn't come time to start a movement classifying Islam as an organization that promotes hate speech? I don't care if it's a religion or not, it advocates violence against others. It's in the bylaws, so to speak and there are plenty of quotes on which you could make this case.
It seems that all the PC tools that are used to restrict freedoms WRT hate speech against various minority groups could be used in this instance, too. While I certainly don't advocate hate speech, I think some of the PC tools have gone too far in restricting somebody's ability to criticize. I'm wondering if that can't be turned on the RoP in some sort of Judo move.
My dream would be a law outlawing Islam in the USA and denying any immigration rights, including the tourist visas used by the 911 hijackers, to anybody from a Muslim country. Obviously, that isn't going to happen, but I think some legal harrassment of Islam is justified.
For instance, I would love to see hundreds of lawsuits against every imam in USA mosques.
at November 10, 2005 2:49 PM
Two home runs in as many days by Mr. Watson. If only every citizen had the cajones to speak their minds against the rats at CAIR.
DC: beer's on me!
Posted by: Monty at November 10, 2005 4:43 PM
Save your effort trying to appease. Use your energy to make others aware.
Posted by: parainvesta at November 10, 2005 5:34 PM
Gary: Thanks for the link to the Free Speech Web Site > looks very enlightening. More restrictions
than I thought on the college campuses.
Richard (aka learjet)
Posted by: learjet0450 at November 10, 2005 6:21 PM
Ahmedinejad's government plans to wipe out Israel....and Anglo-Saxon civilization:
Ahmedinejad's Advisor on Foreign Affairs:
“Hassan Abbasi, Head the Center for Security Doctrines Research of the IRGC has become Ahmadi-Nejad's prime advisor on Foreign Affairs. He lately announced, "We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization.””
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20065
DC, thanks. Some quotes from other Jihadists can be found at
http://www.islamistwatch.org/main.html
at November 10, 2005 7:55 PM
Just like when in New York young muslim's stomped on an American flag in the streets of New York, and sang Alla u Akbar, and onlookers did nothing. While the defamers of the flag relished in the fact that they could do so, because of American so called "loopholes." This was not a loophole, and get it right, it is the right all should have to express speach. Derogatory or not, you have freedom, and if I had seen it first hand, the flag would have been raised and there would have been one hell of a fight, for freedom!
Posted by: todd at November 10, 2005 07:26 PM
at November 10, 2005 8:26 PM
Speaking of bigotry, a report from earlier this year indicates that Muslim taxi drivers will not pick up blind people who have seeing-eye dogs.
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/04/norway-blind-people-rejected-by-muslim.html
Dogs, of course, are "unclean" according to Islam.
Posted by: Archimedes at November 10, 2005 8:31 PM
CAIR worries about Islam being insulted, but if they believe the Koran, then they fully stand behind non-Muslims being insulted.
For example,
Koran, 8:55. “Lo! The worst of beasts in Allah’s sight are the ungrateful who will not believe.”
And they go beyond supporting mere insult,
9:123. “O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).”
CAIR could do the right thing and reject these verses, but rejecting those verses would be an insult Islam.
at November 10, 2005 8:54 PM
I don't like your definition of phobia DC.
The ability to control definitions determines who controls the debate, and I have many examples where definitions have been created, by those, who seek to control the debate.
for the purposes of this thread. I have a software version of the Oxford English Dictionary and this is how it defines phobia:
phobia n.
an abnormal or morbid fear or aversion.
Nothing in there with caveats irrational fears or things which are not dangerous, and one can discount the abnormal and settle on the morbid.
I have a morbid fear and aversion to Islam, and that fear is totally rational and justified. I also have other rational and justified fears about the things that people believe in and act on or would act on if they could, but that opens the door to angry denials and name calling.
The Fear of Islam is morbid, yes, but highly rational, what is irrational though is Islamophilia by any kaffir, and a defense of Islam by those believers who suffer under it.
Posted by: Nariz at November 10, 2005 9:08 PM
More Bigotry in the Koran. (CAIR, pay attention).
The Koran says that disbelievers (non-Muslims) are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111), “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99), liars/they lie (2:10, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11), the “wrong-doers” (2:254, 5:45), on the side of the devil (Satan) and are fighting for him (4:76-77); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); hypocrites, i.e., those who only pretend to be religious (4:61); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); have no sense (5:103); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); disgraced lives (22:9); “losers” (7:179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), false pride and schism (38:2).
The Koran says that Christians and Jews are condemned to hell/cursed/doomed/bad/evil/turned into swine or apes, etc. (not in order) 2:61, 4:48, 4:50, 4:116, 4:47-52, 4:55, 4:157, 4:160, 5:12-5:13, 5:37, 5:51, 5:53, 5:59-60, 5:72-73, 5:79, 9:29-35, 18:52, 33:26, 59:14, 98:1.
CAIR can do the right thing and issue a press release condemning these verses, thereby rejecting the Koran. Otherwise, they can maintain their official position, through endorsing the Koran. Endorsing the entails extreme bigotry toward non-Muslims.
If this is what CAIR believes about non-Muslims, shouldn't they make those views public? Why are they hiding the words of Allah? Don't they know that those who hide the scripture will eat fire and be doomed (2:174)?
Posted by: Archimedes at November 10, 2005 9:17 PM
I also have other rational and justified fears about the things that people believe in and act on or would act on if they could, but that opens the door to angry denials and name calling.~ nariz
That's because your fears ARE irrational and ARE bullshit.
We would NOT act on those things because we DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEM. We believe we have God to answer to.
Stop projecting, giaour.
Posted by: Gary at November 10, 2005 9:19 PM
Nariz,
DC's definition of phobia is consistent with the general psychiatric and psychological use of the term.
Islamists like CAIR use the term Islamophobia for political purposes, aiming to convey the idea that fear of Islam is unwarranted, unfounded, irrational, and disproportionate. They want to convey the idea that people who don't like Islam (fear it, hate it, etc.) are either wrong morally or ill (i.e., crazy). They wish, frankly, to slap a stigmatizing label on any well-publicized critics of Islam, even legitimate, fair critics like Spencer. By stigmatizing/discrediting critics in this fashion, CAIR trying to make use of a logical fallacy called "poisoning the well."
Here is the definition of phobia offered in The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology, 2nd ed., 1995. (Author: Arthur Reber).
"...the fear (or dread) must be persistent and intense, there must be a compelling (psychological) need to flee or avoid the phobic object or situation and the fear must be irrational and not based on sound judgement."
A certain amount of fear of Islam is healthy, not morbid. I would suggest that critics like Spencer have a healthy level of concern/fear about Islam. For example, not revealing his whereabouts is an intelligent, rational decision, given the threats and level of risk. (Anyone who is threatened would be foolish not to take some evasive action). And he is not simply avoiding Islam, but he is addressing the problem in a productive way with his work; the fear has not (as far as we know) debilitated him psychologically. If he can make jokes about the threats that arrive in the hate-mail bag, this suggests he's coping and is not suffering from a phobia.
With their cheap tactics, CAIR is trying to create among the public a feeling of fear or aversion to criticism of Islam. They attack prominent people who are in the public eye and try to make examples of them. This is nothing more than a subtle form of what Mohammad started about 1400 years ago, when he starting assassinating critics and satirical poets. CAIR is trying to create fear in the hearts of those who would dare to challenge Islam. CAIR knows that Islam can't be defended on its own merits. Silencing and inciting hatred against public critics of Islam is one way they can defend Islam. Perhaps if Mohammad had been unsuccessful in killing those poets and critics, someone could have stopped the mass-murdering psychopath and history would be very different.
at November 10, 2005 10:21 PM
donchicago48 said: Then of course there is the ever-popular "Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth"
donchicago (and anyone else who has to deal with this bunk) a good response to that is to point out that the only reason why Islam is "the fastest growing" religion is the fact that like many poor and uneducated people Muslims breed quickly and excessively (treating women like breeding mares may help that). According to Ali Sina the world fastest growing religion by conversion is Falun Gong a.ka. Falun Dafa. Just one of the many fun facts you'll learn at faithfreedom.org
at November 11, 2005 8:22 PM
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