There are groups much like the LMA here in the U.S.
Does the group's name start with C and end with R?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 12, 2005 10:09 PM

In Islamic tradition, any resistance to conquest and subjugation is "unjustified, unacceptable and hatred-instigating" so this statement makes perfect sense when viewed through the Orwellian prism of Islam. Australians should just stop riggling and allow themselves to be absorbed.

Posted by: Charles Martel at November 12, 2005 10:15 PM

The so called grievances of the Islamic community in Australia, in chorus with the complaints from Islamists all around the world, are starting to sound very hollow to the educated secular society of Australia, and elsewhere.

You need only watch the local news, read the local newspapers (including the community papers) and hear the comments of talk back radio (not that I'm a talk back listener!) to know that Australians are now seeing right through the fog of Islamic propaganda.

It woudl be fair to say that Australians are among the most peace loving, happy people in the world and they are starting to ignore the word of the Islamists and their false proclamations of peace and looking at the reality of their deeds. 9/11, two bombings of Oz tourists in Bali, daily mass murder in Iraq, weekly suicide missions in Israel, bombings in Spain and London, endless rioting in Paris, foiled mass murder plans in Sydney & Melbourne, Beslan school massacre.... I mean, seriously, how much evidence does one need?

The average person on the street now cringes when an Islamist or apologist says "Islam means peace". Whilst I'm reluctant to give them any hints I would suggest they pick a new mantra. Trotting out this well worn line is starting to do them more damage than good because it lays bare their lies and deceit.

For a little more credibility I would suggest a new, more honest slogan along the lines "Sure we murder and subjugate infidels, but hey, if it worked for Mo it works for us!".... maybe a little wordy but I'm sure they can add a little bling and spin it into something more marketable.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 12, 2005 11:14 PM

secularaussie writes:
"I mean, seriously, how much evidence does one need?"

That's a great question. Islam is the bad news religion. Every time I open a paper or check the
news, there's always a bunch of stories about
muslims killing, or rioting, or oppressing
non muslims. You'd think by now we'd have figured it out!

Posted by: American at November 12, 2005 11:29 PM

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/004051.php

Denmark: Parliamentarians in sharia-law dilemma

Social Democratic party member Hamid El Mousti, a Moroccan by birth, currently sits on Copenhagens City Council. El Mousti claims it is impossible for Muslims to disavow sharia in its entirety.

"Sharia is a part of our identity - part of being Muslim. It's unreasonable to ask us to swear off our religion - but demanding that we accept the values of Denmark is fine," said El Mousti, emphasising that he in no way condones the stoning of adulterous women or amputation of hands to punish thieves.

Centre Democrat Ben Haddou is also a member of Copenhagen's City Council, and seconds El Mousti's views.

"It's impossible to condemn sharia. And any secular Muslim who claims he can is lying. Sharia also encompasses lifestyle, inheritance law, fasting and bathing. Demanding that Muslims swear off sharia is a form of warfare against them," said Haddou

Posted by: Fjordman at November 12, 2005 11:39 PM

Way to go! Peter Costello is now an International Hero. More people need to stand up and say what he said. If only our cowardly leaders would do this. Nobody in the West wants what Islam has to offer but most people are afraid to say anything for fear of attacks, protests, or having some pest group like CAIR hang some "intolerance" label on them.

Posted by: rafael699 at November 12, 2005 11:43 PM

It doesn't take a lot of deductive power to figure out Islam is bad, just Google "Islam" and "Violence" or "Islam" and "Rape" or "Islam" and "Terrorism" and hundreds if not thousands of true stories will appear.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 12, 2005 11:45 PM

Sweet JadeDragoness, my favorite Jihad Watcher,

It's inductive power, actually, something Sherlock Holmes did, and Miss Marple, and starchy Hercule...

But you're so right; The Old World has lost that power, together with its bearings and moral compass. How did that happen?

Posted by: ovidius_naso at November 13, 2005 12:14 AM

It will take a lot more than Peter Costello's remarks and subsequent reply by LMA before the majority of Australians wake up to the events of todays world and the influence of Islam upon those events.

Yes, there are more peple aware then ever but it will take more. The MSM seems to be more interested in showing how Australian Muslims are not representative of the violence and hate spreading across the world.

The calls for Muslim to communities to take a more active role do not seem to be working as the following comments from the Aust. Federation of Islamic Councils show:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17231377-29277,00.html

Muslim community not a 'police force'
From: AAP
November 13, 2005

THE Islamic community is not a police force ready to hunt down Islamic fanatics, Australian Federation of Islamic Councils president Ameer Ali said.

He said it was not the duty of Islamic community groups to pick up Muslim extremists.
Dr Ali was responding to comments from Prime Minister John Howard, who yesterday said the Islamic community needed to recognise it had a responsibility to identify and deal with the "perverted, fanatical" elements within its ranks.

-----

So, they complain when Federal/State police arrest (alleged) terrorist but are unwilling to prevent terrorist events themselves...

Do any Australian Muslims have any suggestions on what they believe is an acceptable level of policing for their communities?

It has already been shown numerous times that they are likely to suffer in the event of an attack so I would assume they want some proptection... yes, no?

Posted by: AngryMuppet at November 13, 2005 12:18 AM

From the Haddou quote in Fjordman's post above:

It's impossible to condemn sharia. And any secular Muslim who claims he can is lying. Sharia also encompasses lifestyle, inheritance law, fasting and bathing. Demanding that Muslims swear off sharia is a form of warfare against them...

is a statement from a Muslim member of the Copenhagen city council that irrefutably infers that Sharia law in Islam is incompatibility with the right to due process and equal protection under the law. For example, Sharia stipulates a non-Muslim can not testify against a Muslim, thereby denying the non-Muslim due process and equal protection.

Enforcement of due process and equal protection against a Muslim, in the words of an elected offcial of a secular liberal democracy, is an attack against Islam itself. There is no need to quote chapter and verse from the Koran to tell everyone here how the Muslim must defend an attack against Islam.

Posted by: Lisa at November 13, 2005 12:29 AM

AngryMuppet:

Agreed. Whilst there is certainly an elevated level of awareness in Australia regarding Islam, there is a long way to go.

It is only blindly obvious that the Islamic community accept a large part of the responsibility for monitoring the so called radical elements in their midst. A tree doesn't just spontaneously spring into life, it will only grow and bear fruit if it has a nurturing environment.

These aren't just simple random and spontaneous acts of violence. Islam is the seed, soil, water and light that spawns these murderous people. To disown responsibility for that which you have created intentionally or otherwise is just absurd and immoral.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 13, 2005 12:35 AM

Notice the PC gloss in that news report:

Re: Costello's statement that Australia will never have Sharia -- "echoing the sentiments of most Australians, Muslims and non-Muslims alike"

How does that reporter know what the sentiments are of "most Muslims" in Australia? He or she is just making an assumption, then cleverly (or mindlessly) slipping that assumption into the news report as though it were sheer fact.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 13, 2005 12:44 AM

Page 2 of the opinion piece ...

This poisoning of young minds, the sense of historic victimhood and alienation, is daily fuelled by the self-loathing cultural relativists of the Western intellectual establishment.

How true. We help them along in their feelings of grievances against us, tell them they're justified in murdering us. Our self-loathing loonie lefties amongst us, who agree that we're so bad, so nasty to Muslims. And that we deserve what we get.

Muslims in Australia have really ramped up the "victimhood" game lately. Right after the terrorist raids. Typical strategy, whenever Islam rears its ugly head - deflect the blame off them, onto us. One of them went to Canberra to ask the PM to keep the "rednecks" off his community. We're being slandered by Muslims every day. They tell us we're attacking them, since 9/11 even. Vague reports, unproven, maybe only one real attack. But no matter, we're all attacking them apparently. They feel unsafe, afraid, boo hoo hoo. It's really quite sickening.

Posted by: feralee at November 13, 2005 12:57 AM

hello muslime..me got ya 44 magnum,,just luv to blow ya all over the wall..just hope not to make a mess on my stamp collection..

Posted by: otterfisher at November 13, 2005 1:18 AM

Dr Pepper, the journo is kosher anti-jihad and not a PC hair on head. Some reverse taqiyya,perhaps, aimed at "moderates". Believe!

Posted by: islamophobic pride at November 13, 2005 1:22 AM

SecularAussie:

"To disown responsibility for that which you have created intentionally or otherwise is just absurd and immoral."

You are absolutely correct with the above statement. But what is to be done about it? It is practically impossible to reason with an illogocal mindset. Add to that the current media climate, (ie: every 3rd newspaper article regarding the recent australian arrests is the family's opinion of the alleged terrorists (good son, angel, would never do such a thing)) and it becomes quite difficult to make a statement showing the destructive nature of Islam without being condemned.

I don't know how the proposed sedition laws will effect those speaking out against Islam but I think it will be tested by Islamic lobby groups in the same fashion CAIR and the like are using the laws in place around he world. I just hope that it will be effective in keeping the hate-preaching imams under control.

First we need to see whether Howard can get the laws through without being watered down to the point of being useless.

---

otterfish:

That doesn't help anyone.

Posted by: AngryMuppet at November 13, 2005 1:30 AM

Feralee:

I first became aware how virulent the victimhood tactic of the Muslims was when I received an email from my sister who was working in Saudi at the time of the 9/11 attacks. There was some old weatherboard house that served as a temporary mosque in outer Brisbane that had apparently been attacked by an arsonist. A brand new mosque to replace this old house had just about been completed. Turned out to be some teenager, I believe.

Apparently this attempted arson on the old house made big news in Saudi. It was portrayed in the Saudi media as muslims in Australia under siege, what a joke.

Regardless of your political persuasion, John Howard (that would the Australian leader for our American friends) has to be given some credit for recognising some years ago the dangerous trend of PC apologists that were intent on demonising everything about anglo Australian history.

Whilst his government have done more than any other government to help the aborigines overcome the proverty trap, he steadfastly refused to make a national apology. To many (mainly leftists) this was seen to be a bigoted and narrow minded response but in truth he was intent on setting a precedent to halt the ridiculous trend of PC apologists suicidally demonising Western society and all of its virtues.

I knew a lot of leftists at university. They were always trying to show how open minded and liberal thinking they were by challenging every virtuous concept/practice of western society. They would work themselves into a frenzy trying to see who could come up with the most unconventional and unorthodoxed ideas and advancing these thoughts as superior and enlightened intellect. Pragmatism was merely a unnecessary complication of their "free thinking" style.

Western society has nothing to apologise for. Western advances in science, technology, social and political thinking have moved billions of people out of poverty and into a life of relative and considerable wealth and comfort. Scientific endeavour has alleviated the suffering of millions of people that every year would otherwise die of starvation and preventable diseases. Rather than till soil by hand with a wooden hoe and fetch water from a well we can spend more time with family, reading, learning, going to the movies. Never forget how much we all owe to the civilised society that our western culture has spawned. For all of its perceived weaknesses, nothing in the history of mankind has delivered so much to so many.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 13, 2005 1:45 AM

AngryMuppet:

You said..."Add to that the current media climate, (ie: every 3rd newspaper article regarding the recent australian arrests is the family's opinion of the alleged terrorists (good son, angel, would never do such a thing)) and it becomes quite difficult to make a statement showing the destructive nature of Islam without being condemned"

On the contrary, I think these newspaper articles explaining how nice and friendly these terrorists are just reinforces the view that Islam is full of contradictions and simply cannot be trusted. It will make Australians far more suspicious and circumspect about Islam which I think is a good thing. Islam turns what would otherwise be a nice, decent human being into an irrational killing machine, what better message could we send to the civilised community?

We have to start/continue an assault against the absurdity of political correctness. I for one am quite happy in a social setting to denounce the stupidity of PC. You should try it, it generally gets well received and gives a sense liberation and relief to most of the audience who really believe the same thing but are reluctant to say it.

To a certain degree you have to pick your audience and you have to be thoughtful about the things you say. The problem seems to be the broad scope of issues covered by PC, for instance, I don't think a reasonable person would argue against the so called PC issue of equal employment opportunities for woman, but that is bundled in with ridiculous PC issues such as the right of Muslims not to be profiled as prime terrorist suspects. The stupidity is just numbing.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 13, 2005 2:02 AM

secularaussie, I give Howard two thumbs up for his ideals and performance over the past few years. It's tough trying to deal with the poisonous, treasonous PC-addled mentality of a lot of people in our country. You do anything that's not groveling before some minority's perceived grievance and you have to put up with sickening hatred and condemnation. There's a segment of our society that is so full of hatred for this country and ordinary Australians. No wonder they align themselves with Islam. They're two peas in a pod. Seething with hate.

I wouldn't vote for any other party, than the Liberals. As far as I'm concerned, I'm a one-issue voter from now on. My most important issue is protection from Islam, and I'll vote for the politician best equipped to deal with that. Everything else is minor.

Posted by: feralee at November 13, 2005 3:06 AM

SecularAussie:

I agree that the tone of these articles will make some people suspicious of Islam but I just don't think we are at the point where any sinificant change is going to be made. The recent and ongoing events in Europe is also helping people realise the truth.

I often discuss world events with co-workers, friends and family and agree that you do have to choose targets and words carfeully. It's not at all difficult to make people realise how dangerous Islam can be. They just don't bother paying attention to what goes on let alone try to form any opinion on the matter.

Just accepting the headline news is enough for some but simply informing them of further details can make them realise there is more to things than the 30 second clip they saw.

Posted by: AngryMuppet at November 13, 2005 3:07 AM

"My most important issue is protection from Islam, and I'll vote for the politician best equipped to deal with that. Everything else is minor."

Also, didn't the leader of the Labour opposition say something recently about supporting national religious vilification laws as an addition to the terrorism laws just passed by parliament? He supposedly did it to look tougher than Howard but instead he went way too far for my liking. I don't want the mess that is the religious vilification laws in the state of Victoria becoming nationally binding. Howard replied by saying that he didn't think anti-religious vilification laws worked and they don't!!! Also, Labour's attempt to stop Howard from making it as difficult as possible for people from the middle east to immigrate illegally to Australia wasn't a very good idea either.

I would like to vote for Labour for various non-terrorism reasons but I feel I just can't now because what many in the Labour Party want is, in my opinion, national suicide.

Posted by: ashlee72 at November 13, 2005 3:36 AM

feralee:

Yep, I'm with you. I think John Howard has done a brilliant job. I read an article yesterday from one of the broadsheets where they explained that the Howard government in just 10 years had introduced more reforming legislation into Parliament than all the legislation introduced since Federation. I have to say I think he is by far and away the most genuinely decent, sensible and capable national leader we have ever had.

Labour is just a joke, formulating reactionary policy based on opinion polls. Honestly, they stand for nothing, they oppose every sensible piece of legislation just for the sake of taking an opposing view. The Greens and Democrats... what more needs to be said. Agreed, his dealings with national security alone justify his re-election. Can you just imagine the disaster that we would behold if labour were elected, I just shudder to think. As with most socialists, labour are fundamentally lazy, bereft of any sensible ideas and most importantly, a serious danger to our life and liberty.

AngryMuppet:

It is sad but true, educating a whole population about things that are imminently perilous is a very difficult thing to do. If there is a bright side to matters its that Australia's incumbent government and much of the media seem infinitely more aware of the dangers of Islam than any other western government, as far as I am aware. Unfortunately, I think that a truly catastrophic disaster at the hands of Islam is in the offing somewhere in the world. Sometimes people just don't comprehend the dangers until it is staring them in the face.

This may sound horrible, but I suspect the Islamic zealots will become so impatient that they commit some heinous crime so shocking to humanity that the freedom loving people of the world act before they achieve their demographic objective and subjugate whole regions of the world to their perverted cult. I think living forcibly under a totalitarian Islamic state that 'sneaks up' on the west would be infinitely worse than a one off catastrophe that awakens the giant within us and empowers us to take the steps necessary to avoid this looming demographic disaster.

It may even have the unexpected affect of affronting the sensibilities of majority Muslims to such an extent that they undertake a fundamental reformation of their own religion. As Ali Sina correctly points out, reform of Islam is all but impossible because fundamental to their belief is that the Qu'ran is god's uncorrupted word, how can you reform what god said?

In the meantime, decent and sensible people need to do what they can. If nothing else it will provide the satisfaction of knowing that something, no matter how small, is being done. I'm doing a lot of posts this afternoon because right now I'm planning a website targeted at informing the Australian public of the potential dangers we face.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 13, 2005 3:47 AM

I just have one simple question is Robert Spencer Jewish?

Posted by: daca at November 13, 2005 3:57 AM

Two thumbs up for Peter Costello and the Sydney Morning Herald. Perhaps there is a small ray of hope in a sea of political correctness about Islam. The rest of the civilized western world should follow this great journalistic lead.

But it will take a lot more than Peter Costello and the Sydney Morning Herald to ensure that sharia does not wipe out democracy in Australia.

Australians will need to prove their courage and conviction in dealing with Islam for many years to come. They live in a region that is increasingly bullied by Islam.

Posted by: Johnathan at November 13, 2005 4:08 AM

ashlee, yes it was Labor's Nicola Roxon who said when they won power, they'd bring in federal religious vilification laws. (Shudder!) But to show how out of touch with the majority of Australians Labor is, she was booed by the audience, who were Labor supporters. LOL! I wonder if that sunk into her PC-addled brain or not?

Labor is dangerous. Look who they had as their leader. I get a sick feeling to my stomach when I think that we came pretty close to getting that hateful thug as our PM. For the Labor party to endorse someone who broke a taxi-driver's arm, as their leader, is an indication of their bankrupt morals and ethics. He's a thug, and that hateful spray he gave the Labor party via his book, shows he did not have the maturity or professionalism to lead a boy scout troop, let alone an entire country.

Beazley might seem like he has the right ideas about Islam issues, but he's got awful people the likes of Carmen Lawrence, who'd do whatever it took to get Labor to appease the Muslims and turn Australia into some socialist, PC, anti-US, pro-UN, pro-EU utopia of the Left. As you put it so well: they'd bring on our national suicide.

Posted by: feralee at November 13, 2005 4:09 AM

Secularaussie,

Please keep updating about your website you are planning; can not wait to see it!

Posted by: CRUSADER at November 13, 2005 4:11 AM

One wonders what these 'good Muslims' would have said if Winston Churchill was still around:

Winston Churchill

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

Churchill on the neutral countries in WW2

"Be nice to the crocodile and he will eat you last".

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 13, 2005 4:17 AM

Such an apt description by Churchill. And totally appropriate for today. They were the same then, and they are the same today. Stuck in a time warp, when the world was harsh and brutal, and backward and miserable. And they can't see any other option, can't look forward. This is your brain on Islam.

Posted by: feralee at November 13, 2005 4:28 AM

Daca~ at the top of the page there is a link to a Q&A of Robert Spencer. For starters, he is Catholic... but please read it for yourself.

Posted by: Gary at November 13, 2005 4:36 AM

By the way, has anyone heard of this yet?

Infighting between Al-Quaida and its compatriots in Iraq:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13124795.htm

Perhaps this is the 'civil war' some have agitated about since Bush began the War on Terror in Iraq.

Posted by: Gary at November 13, 2005 4:47 AM

daca:

"I just have one simple question is Robert Spencer Jewish?"

Let me see, are you trying to be clever?

Firstly, if Mr Spencer is Jewish, I would like to congratulate him and all Jewish people for making such a hugely disproportionate contribution to mankind. The number of great Jewish thinkers and scientists is simply too numerous to mention, do your own googling. Here in Australia some of the greatest businessmen are Jewish including Frank Lowy of Westfield, Richard Pratt of Visyboard Industries, the Smorgon family and Harry Triguboff to name a few. All of them got to where they are through sheer business brilliance and hardwork, not raping and pillaging like our good friend Mohammed.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun in assuming that you are Muslim or leftist conspiracy theorist, but lets assume you are. What exactly do you have against the Jews? The fact that the state of Israel was reclaimed from your murderous bretheren after some 1400 years. The fact that they undoubtedly have great influence in Hollywood to influence public opinion and in turn American foreign policy. Did you ever think that in a hostile world with just 6 million jews that it would be suicidal for them to physically confront some 1.2 billion muslims like lambs to the slaughter?

Anyway, thats getting off track. What if Robert Spencer was Jewish? Would that mean that 9/11 never happened, that some 100 Australians weren't killed in the Bali Bombings, that innocent people weren't slaughtered going about their business in Madrid and London, that 300 people, mostly schoolchildren, weren't murdered in Beslan, that thousands of innocent Iraqi's aren't being blown to bits every day, that every muslim country with the exception of oil rich ones aren't poverty stricken hell holes? It makes no difference who the messenger is, it matters only that the messenger tells the truth.

That is what this site is all about, shedding light on the concoction of lies that is Islam. Muslims turn a blind eye, they don't want to know the truth and their absolute ignorance is at the peril of all of humanity. If they weren't afraid to know the truth they wouldn't ask people for blind faith and persecute them if they dared to ask questions.

So daca, you are free to express yourself but preferably do so by asking questions that contribute something to your or our collective understanding. For instance, why don't you ask whether its possible, just possible that Muhammed was a psychopathic, mudering, self serving paedophile who regurgitated then manipulated existing holy scriptures to serve his own indulgences and lust for power. Now that is a question worth asking.

Posted by: secularaussie at November 13, 2005 4:48 AM

Sorry to be OT, but here comes another Muslim denial of Mohammeds crime career:

My question to Mohideen Ibramsha:

Please answer me. You, as a teacher, are held responsible for what you teach your students.
If you teach what Mohammed did, which is rape, plunder, murder, lie and deceive and any other crime he committed, that makes you equally guilty
sheik yer'mami at November 13, 2005 04:39 AM

Mohideen takes it up:
This is possibly the third time you have accused that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, did rape, plunder, murder, lie and deceive. No defense could be made against an unspecific accusation. Please be specific. Give instances of the so called crimes committed, so that we could take up each one on its merits.

We would like to record that Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, taught the best way to live happily during this life and the Hereafter. His teachings benefit life in both the worlds: the current earthly life, and the Hereafter.

Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at November 13, 2005 05:04 AM

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 13, 2005 5:30 AM

Mohideen,
you deny that Mohammed was a crime-boss who was using "religion" to justify his perversion.

We have hadithes that show Muhammad invaded innocent people just for the lust of their wealth, lands, and women. We have hadithes that count how he tortured a Jew who had hidden the treasures of the Khaibar with red iron rod to make him reveal the whereabouts of that hidden treasure until he died. We have hadithes that say Muhammad’s army raided cities killed the men and he raped the women whom they captured in those raids after killing their loved ones. Safiyha and Rayhana were the women who he raped after killing their male relatives. So stop lying to yourself about the virtues of Muhammad. That man you call a prophet was no prophet at all but a shameless conman of no moral values. He was a narcissist. His morality was as much developed as the morality of a five years old child. He had no conscience whatsoever. He could kill so heartlessly, because he had no conscience. He was as evil as Hitler or other famous narcissists.

Everything that Mohammed concocted is based on greed, sex, power, fear of hellfire and hatred for infidels and Jews.

Mohammeds "teachings" cause death and destruction all over the world since 1400 years. How can you live with yourself following such a perversion!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 13, 2005 6:30 AM

(it was condemned as "unjustified, unacceptable and hatred-instigating" by the Lebanese Muslim Association.)

And these people are supposed to be moderates?! What about there own 'hatemongering' of the jews in Mosques?

Posted by: The Englishman at November 13, 2005 8:28 AM

I have been reading about Taqiyya and it is exactly what the Muslims are doing now. They commit an atrocity, preach hate and threaten to takeover, anyone says anything and they are the injured party.

That and complete deception,

Taqiyya explained.

"Islam condemns terrorism" (We all love terror) "I am a moderate Muslim (I give money to Al Qaeda and worship Bin Laden), I have no intention of harming innocent people (I am planning to bomb a hospital).

Posted by: IceDragon at November 13, 2005 1:00 PM

The West has been every bit as "evil" in the Far East, what with the opium trade and other iniquities, yet the Chinese and other Asians have gotten over it years and years ago. The Asian economy is booming, unlike the moribund and corrupt dictatorships of Islamic countries. I for one, am sick of the self loathing multi culti liberals trotting out the same, tired excuses for resentful, sullen Islamists who happily accept payouts from the West and western hospitality while eagerly biting the hand that feeds at every opportunity.

Posted by: londongirl at November 13, 2005 4:15 PM

Winstoin Churchill wasn't the only world leader who knew Islam. So did John Quincy Adams 180 years ago when he wrote this:-

"In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar [i.e., Muhammad], the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent God; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adams's capital letters)… Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant… While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men."

And this:-

"The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force."

Just imagine the furore of the PC brigade were a world leader to echo these same words today.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at November 13, 2005 5:08 PM

Demanding that Muslims swear off sharia is a form of warfare against them," said Haddou

His call then. War it is.

Posted by: Nariz at November 13, 2005 5:15 PM

Hi feralee, we should explain that here in Oz the liberals are the right wing party and that labor, the greens and the democrats are all left wing.

Full marks to Peter Costello on his comments.

Posted by: learnmore at November 13, 2005 11:36 PM

Yes, learnmore, thanks for pointing that out. I assume too much sometimes. Our Liberals are not the kooks like Canada's Liberals, nor are they like the Democrats in the U.S. They're more right of centre, but certainly not too far over either.

Costello stated something so basic and common-sense, that nobody could disagree with. If they're true Australians, that is.

I haven't heard other parties endorse Costello. Probably too afraid they'd lose votes, so they say nothing.

Posted by: feralee at November 14, 2005 1:21 AM