The views of one who helped Build Israel:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20275

And now I am definitely out the door, take care all!

Posted by: Gary at November 24, 2005 6:33 AM

Robert,

Had you told me you were coming for a visit, I'd have rolled out the red carpet!

This is a land of craggy mountains and sandy seashore, gravel desert and humid swamp, ancient limestone houses alongside glass-faced skyscrapers, colorful open-air markets and Toys R Us, bad-tempered camels and ritzy sidewalk cafes.

It lives with the deepest of histories yet is proud of its satellites in space, its water-sparing irrigation systems and technologies ranging from swallowable cameras for digestive tract imaging to Intel's Centrino chip.

A small error: Nazareth is firmly within Israel's 1948 borders and has been virtually free of sectarian violence, save for a dispute a few years ago over the building of a mosque right near the Church of the Annunciation. I'll be visiting that Galilee city this Monday, as I have many times in the past, and wouldn't dream of packing a pistol, which in any case I don't own and don't know how to use.

Posted by: Paul at November 24, 2005 6:55 AM

Paul,

Thank you very much for your kind words. Unfortunately, for reasons obvious and not so obvious, I couldn't announce beforehand where I was going.

I love your description: "This is a land of craggy mountains and sandy seashore, gravel desert and humid swamp, ancient limestone houses alongside glass-faced skyscrapers, colorful open-air markets and Toys R Us, bad-tempered camels and ritzy sidewalk cafes." It is, as I saw, right on the money.

You are also, of course, quite right about Nazareth, and I have made the correction. I was actually thinking of another place.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at November 24, 2005 7:01 AM

Yet as Benjamin Franklin said long ago in a far different context, we must all hang together, or we will most assuredly all hang separately.

How very true, Robert! I can't think of a nation which is more on the frontline in the fight against global jihadism than Israel. My hats/turbans off to the wonderful Israeli people who somehow manage to maintain their sanity in the midst of the insane jihad that is constantly waged against them not only by the Arab nations that surround them but also by the left-wing mainstream media around the World.

Posted by: Razdan at November 24, 2005 7:25 AM

Rob, you'd be a rich man if you could get P.I.G. noticed over in Israel.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at November 24, 2005 8:47 AM

Wow! I was close in my prediction that Robert was going to KSA in a burqha.

Had we known, we would have extended an invitation, too! And then I could have gotten my copy of PIG autographed.

Come visit again!

Posted by: Shy Guy at November 24, 2005 8:58 AM

Mr Spencer says "Natan Sharansky (I gave him copies of my books The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and Onward Muslim Soldiers) and the Chief Sephardic Rabbi of Jerusalem, Shlomo Moshe Amar.

What about muslims Mr Spencer, have you managed to give signed copies of your books to any of them. I think it is obvious what non-muslims would say but the people who really matter are the the targetted ones.

I shall be getting a copy of the PIG, grit my teeth and read as much as I can. It will be interesting if I can get through it all.

But never the less do you know if any muslims have read it?

Posted by: Naseem at November 24, 2005 9:17 AM

Naseem:

Not being able to recall if you live in the part of Pakistan affected by the earthquake I am glad to see a post from you.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 24, 2005 9:22 AM

Welcome back Robert. Just in time to give Thanksgiving. As a Jew I'm so proud you visited Israel and the powers that be invited you. Because you are a man of stature when it comes to the truth about Muhammad's eternal Jihad

___________

http://pilgrims.net/plymouth/history/

Pilgrims

The Pilgrims were English Separatists who founded (1620) Plymouth Colony in New England. In the first years of the 17th century, small numbers of English Puritans broke away from the Church of England because they felt that it had not completed the work of the Reformation. They committed themselves to a life based on the Bible. Most of these Separatists were farmers, poorly educated and without social or political standing. One of the Separatist congregations was led by William Brewster and the Rev. Richard Clifton in the village of Scrooby in Nottinghamshire. The Scrooby group emigrated to Amsterdam in 1608 to escape harassment and religious persecution. The next year they moved to Leiden, where, enjoying full religious freedom, they remained for almost 12 years. In 1617, discouraged by economic difficulties, the pervasive Dutch influence on their children, and their inability to secure civil autonomy, the congregation voted to emigrate to America.

Posted by: dennisw at November 24, 2005 9:33 AM

Paul,

Isreal sound like a really cool place to visit, although I'm not sure how easy it would be for a Pakistani Ahamadi muslim to visit.

I'm pretty sure it looks very different from muslim countries surrounding it.

An army type who is a neighbour here in Lahore says that ME peace could be had if Israel paid Jizah to have a contingent of muslim soldiers stationed in Israel to protect Israel from attack. The logic behind this is that it presents an acceptable face of Israel to the rest of the ME and there would be no reason to attack as an acceptable muslim face to it is there.

Could you accept the fact that muslims would be putting their life on the line for Israelis.

Based on the Pak-Israeli talks, I think Pakistan would be up for providing some of these soldiers
what do you think?

Posted by: Naseem at November 24, 2005 9:43 AM

God bless you, Mr. Spencer. Your trip is certainly going to be on my list of things to be grateful for today. Israle needs more visitors who 'get it'.

Posted by: libbysmom at November 24, 2005 9:46 AM

Waterdragon,

I live in Lahore and while I felt the tremors, and the odd building fell (it was more bits of houses, the roofs etc, rather than complete buildings), never the less my hubbi got caught & injured in the earthquake as he was doing business in a subarb of Islamabad, whiuch was close to Muzafrabad, where there was almost utter devastation. He was taken to hospital & spent just over 2 weeks there.

I went under difficult circumstances there to be beside him. I spent over 3 weeks in that area and the devastation has to be seen to be believed.

My hubbi is much better now, walking about & has started to go back to work. Thank you for your concern.

Posted by: Naseem at November 24, 2005 9:52 AM

"An army type who is a neighbour here in Lahore says that ME peace could be had if Israel paid Jizah to have a contingent of muslim soldiers stationed in Israel to protect Israel from attack. The logic behind this is that it presents an acceptable face of Israel to the rest of the ME and there would be no reason to attack as an acceptable muslim face to it is there.

Could you accept the fact that muslims would be putting their life on the line for Israelis.

Based on the Pak-Israeli talks, I think Pakistan would be up for providing some of these soldiers
what do you think?"
-- from a posting above by "Naseem" an Ahmadiyya (Muslim)

This fascinates. One more bit of evidence of how even the most "moderate" of Muslims finds acceptable, and even natural, the view of Israel as having no independent right to exist, as an Infidel state, but that it might, just might, be allowed to be endured "if Israel paid Jizah to have a contingent of Muslim soldiers statoned in Israel to protect Israel from attack."

Think about that. Think about what it means if a member of the Ahmadiyya sect, a sect which for a number of reasons is not regarded by mainstream Muslims as "Islam" at all, believes that the solution to the Muslim hostility to Israel is simply for the Israelis to pay the Jizyah, in the form no doubt of supporting those Muslim soldiers who, stationed within Israel itself, will so long as they are paid sums deemed satisfactory, and so long no doubt as those Infidel Israelis otherwise do nothing to anger Muslms (including those Muslim soldiers now deliberately stationed, at Israeli invitation, within Israel itself), then Israel can continue to exist.

That's big of them. And that's exactly the attitude that one finds among Muslims now deep behind enemy lines, in Western Europe. Be good, do our bidding, do nothing to offend us. In schools, on the airwaves, in museums, on the stages of theatres. Do nothing to offend us -- or else. And that is now, at the very beginning. What will it be like in ten years, if nothing is done? In twenty, if nothing is done?

If nothing is done.

Posted by: Hugh at November 24, 2005 10:19 AM

Naseem,
Interesting idea about posting muslim soldiers in Israel. What kind of reaction do you think would happen if we posted US soldiers in, let's say, Iraq, Iran, KSA, Pakistan?

Posted by: Caratacus at November 24, 2005 10:38 AM

Naseem,

I am sure the fox would be happy to guard the hen house as well.

Posted by: Sharku at November 24, 2005 11:31 AM

Naseem-

The idea of Jews (or any other group) being "protected" by Muslims is laughable. Haven't you read about the reoccuring pogroms that occurred when Jews lived in Muslim dominated lands? And that still occur today, wherever Muslims live in proximity with people of other religions?

Muslim "protection" hasn't meant much to the Copts of Egypt, the Mandeans of Iraq, the Christians of Indonesia or Pakistan (wasn't a church just burned down by a Muslim mob? Good display of interreligious cooperation, that), or Bhuddists of Thailand, the Hindus of India....the list goes on and on.....

I challenge you. Go to thereligionofpeace.com. Read the list of attacks occurring in the name of Islam. Go to michaelsavage.com and see the photos of the Indonesian school girl who was decapitated by Muslims, look at her bloodstained hands and how her poor head rests besides her body. Watch a beheading video at the same site, watch Nick Berg scream as his head is slowly severed from his body, while his murderers chant happily to Allah. Look at the news, a young Muslim (no, not Amish, Buddhist, Shintoist, Christian) man has just been convicted of planning to MURDER our president. Read "The Legacy of Jihad" by Andrew Bostom.

"When this order became known to the ghAzis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain". From Jihad in India's History http://voi.org/books/tcqp/chi6.htm

Then tell us again Islam is a religion of peace.

Posted by: treehugger at November 24, 2005 11:39 AM

Your description of your trip and your thoughts were informative and inspiring...Thank you RS...

Happy Hollidays, Thanksgiving or whatever...To RS, Hugh, Rebecca et al, and all the posters here who read this...

Posted by: duh_swami at November 24, 2005 11:51 AM

And, of course, the jihad against Israel has served as a flame to ignite a horrible explosion of anti-Semitism that has reached horrific proportions.

Here is a relatively recent article from Simon Wiesenthal on the problem:

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/{DFD2AAC1-2ADE-428A-9263-35234229D8D8}/RESPONSE%2011-05.PDF

Muslims generally tend to deny outright Islamic ideological sources for this hateful, violent, global phenomenon, e.g. some of the vicious hadith on Jews and the end times (again, Islamic end times mentality and ideology deserves more study), and immediately deflect any criticism of Islamic anti-Semitism by either evoking the 'greater problem' of 'Islamophobia', asserting kinship with Judaism, which, they do not mention, includes claiming that Jewish prophets and that the 'legitimate Jewish faith' are actually Islamic, or blaming the entire problem on Israel (if Israel were not so mean there would be no problem...)

Denial, aggressive self assertion, paranoia, projection, claiming to be 'the victim', and the falsification of history, these tend to be the overwhelming reactions of Muslims when the problem of Islamic anti-Semitism is brought to light. And, in the meantime, matters get worse and worse. Teachers cannot teach about the Holocaust anymore in Europe without raising suspicions and risking trouble. People generally cannot publically assert their support of Jewish people around the world, especially for Jews in Israel, without being subject to abuse of all sorts. And the Jewish people themselves cannot assert a dearly held principle of the Jewish faith and tradition: the blessedness of the land of Israel, which is meant to exist not as a symbol of violence and oppression, but as a beacon of peace, prosperity and hope. And, I often wonder, what contributions would come from this tiny nation of a few million souls, if the jihad did not exist. What inventions? What ideas? What works of art? What cultural achievements? As Hitler extinguished the Jews, people who contributed enormously to the flourishing of European culture, so too the Jihad seeks to snuff out the people of Israel, and all the good things that Israel is bringing and might bring to the world.

And, as educated people, nations, religious institutions, the masses at large, abandoned the Jews in the 1930s to an evil ideology that sought their extinction, so, too, the world slowly falls mute in our times, as Islamic clerics, politicians, writers, evoking Islamic principles, evoking global conspiracy theories, evoking blood libel of all sorts, form the words and ideas that Hilter used just seventy years ago, 'eradication', 'wipe them off the map', 'defeat them', 'total war'.

Total war indeed, could jihad mean anything else?

Posted by: JTF at November 24, 2005 12:07 PM

Dear Nasseem:

You are obviously a good, relflective person. I always said that in the heart of every Muslim was an apostate struggling to break free.

Islam doesn't belong in your part of the world; it was introduced as a matter of invasion, spread through lance and sword, forced on an innocent population of Hindus, Buddhists, animists, etc.

I beg you to consider visiting www.apostatesofislam.org (or maybe .com) and read the truth.

The people of India (including what is now Pakistan) have a truly noble, ancient, respectful, peaceful tradition of tolerance. Rejoin them.

***********************************************

The Left, of course, and many others...

Sigh. Does it have to be like this? For every Israel-bashing Ralph Nader, Mike Moore, and Amy Goodman; there is an Israel-bashing David Duke, a Pat Buchannon, and a Hal Turner.

You can say that on the general subject of Islam, at least in terms of headcount, the Left-wingers are a little more deluded that the Right. But there are a hell of a lot more people that hate Israel in particular on the Right than the Left.

Posted by: kj at November 24, 2005 12:08 PM

Naseem,

Your being Muslim is no barrier to visiting Israel. Egyptians and Jordanians do it all the time, and no doubt Muslims who are citizens of countries that don't specify religion in passports have also visited. I doubt you'd be allowed to enter carrying a Pakistani passport, and you would probably encounter trouble at the airport if your non-Pakistani passport bears evidence of a visit to Pakistan.

For your information, Muslim soldiers already protect Israel. Many, many Beduin volunteer to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Circassian citizens of Israel -- all Muslims -- are conscripted to the army as are all male members of the Druse community.

A few more points:

Muslims vote for members of parliament and there are also Arab political parties. There are Muslim judges in the courts and Muslims have served in Israel's embassies abroad. For many years, a Druse headed the news department of the Israel Broadcasting Authority (like the BBC, but without, uh, the anti-Israel bias).

All major-highway signs are in Hebrew, Arabic and English. All citizens are entitled to the same level of health care and all are members, by law, of one of four government-regulated health care organizations.

The kibbutz and moshav movements, in my opinion the world's finest experiments in socialist/cooperative living, exist in that same tiny spot of land -- about the size of New Jersey or Lake Ontario -- that also hosts the largest number of Nasdaq-traded companies after the United States and Canada.

With respect to The P.I.G. to Islam being published in Israel, Irshad Manji's The Trouble With Islam has been published here as has Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses. And, of course in Hebrew too, The Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter and Winnie the Pooh.

Posted by: Paul at November 24, 2005 12:42 PM

Hello Robert,

Your trip no doubt reaffirmed you enormous committment. I've been to Israel multiple times, and I would like to note that when you comment:"... while Bethlehem, under Palestinian Authority control, has become a dangerous place from which Christians are fleeing as quickly as they can." Let me point out what you forget.

Whilst this is a Christian town and holy site, and should be and was so treated by Israel- the sites far older holy site was at the burial site of Rachel, matriach of the Jewish people, and her tomb there are far older than the christian.
What has happened to it, you left out.

That tomb can only be driven to in an army bulletproof vehicle. Though it is 15 min's outside of Jerusalem, in area controlled by the PA, it is and has been a fire zone.
And there are cement walls, barriers and a soldier outside armed to defend against homicidists who like to shoot people thru the head, and inside the shrine soldiers, to protect you when you get there.

This is how jews became prisoners in their own land, by 'sharing' it- and though you mention so many things, you failed to mention Kever Rachel, where Jews and the Torah are imprisoned under the brutal eyes of the muslim, the arab, and the 'peace process'

There are many people in Israel who voted 2 yrs ago, against the entire plan of evacuation unilaterlly and Sharon was voted in on that premise. He with the help of the US, the EU, and the left, stole that from the Jewsish people, and began the appeasement policy he undertood in Gaza, and which has brought another round of demands for Israeli and Jewish surrender.

I've met many who felt like this, before Gaza was abandoned, and I'm sure it's increased more now. But the EU, The UN, the Vatican, the arab states and the US are all pushing for the further abandonment, in varying degrees.

You should have gone to Kever Ruchel- now that is the irony of the 'peace process'.
Here, at a very holy Jewish site from antiquity- cement barriers have to be set up with armed soldiers to keep the faithful jew from being slaughtered. You never see that portrayed in the media.

Mark

Posted by: mgoldberg at November 24, 2005 12:48 PM

We 'll be needing some pix, Robert.

Posted by: Kim Hartveld at November 24, 2005 12:59 PM

Naseem:

Sorry to hear of your family's ordeal and glad to hear things are returning to normal fairly quickly.

You may be aware that Irshad Manji, a Muslim Pakistani Canadian travelled to Israel not so long ago in order to write "The Trouble with Islam". I'm not sure it's available in Pakistan, but it's available in many countries and languages. Check her website out for details.

It's been a while since I read the book, but as I recall, she wrote that the Israeli authorities barely questioned her purposes in seeking entry to the country and she felt quite comfortable moving about in Israeli society, but then she doesn't wear hejab.

On the other hand, though I don't recall her writing about another aspect of Israeli society close to her heart, as an "uncloseted" homosexual, she also was able to witness a society where Muslim homosexuals aren't persecuted for their sexuality and that probably gave her a lift too. Where I think she goes a little overboard is stating her comfort -- ability to identify I think is the way she put it -- with Orthodox Jews. I'm not suggesting they would have treated her with hostility, however covertly, but as with other communities of "true believers" there are elements in the Orthodox Jewish community that are very bigotted and condescending to anyone who doesn't adhere to their particular beliefs and rites.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 24, 2005 1:00 PM

Well Robert,

As the advertising copy says:

"No one belongs in Israel -- more than you."

It's on my list, too.

Posted by: PRCS at November 24, 2005 1:01 PM

Mark
That is very sad to read about the Tomb of Rachel. I knew it had been threatened but had no idea that the situation was so dire. When I visited in 1992 we drove in a normal minibus. There was one guard, but nothing like the fortifications you describe.
I have a great respect for the Holy site. It is a place of pilgrimage of particular significance to couples who are childless and experiencing difficulties. That was our position when we went, I found the site very profound, and eventually my prayers were answered. And now I am driven mad and kept poor, but that's another story.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at November 24, 2005 1:47 PM

Heck, it's happening in Britian too.

The First Step to Britishness Is Your Poppy
By Carol Gould
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 24, 2005

Writing this week in London’s Guardian, columnist Madeleine Bunting made an important observation in the context of her evaluation of television and radio programs that encourage “multicultural understanding.” She commented that one of the biggest barriers to bridging the cultural gap between non-Muslim and Muslims in Britain is alcohol.

Drinking is indeed a mainstay of British life. The pub, or “local,” has been a meeting place for generations of village and city dwellers throughout the seasons. Alcohol is the centerpiece of social life across all classes. Cocktails and wine with dinner followed by cognac are an integral part of the European dinner circuit. What Italian can live without Chianti? What Frenchman can live without wine? Germans have their beer, Russians their schnapps, and so forth. In other words, if Britain’s leaders are anxious to see young Muslims hanging out with young “typical Englishmen” their teetotaling presents a problem.

However, I would like to turn to an issue that exercises me a lot more than the prospect of eternal separation of Muslim and non-Muslim over the matter of a pint of beer.

Last week was the culmination of that poignant fortnight in which people all over the world wear a poppy in the lead-up to Remembrance Day. Nothing is more dramatic than seeing the sea of red flowers in the lapels of British men and women as they make their way to the office in the early-morning rush hour. All across the British Isles men and women of all ages wear a poppy. When I arrived in the United Kingdom thirty years ago from the United States I was so touched by this tradition that I made sure to buy one from a British Legion volunteer as soon as November rolled around.

The poppy is a symbol of the terrible loss of life in World War I in the fields of Flanders, where these blood-red flowers sprouted above the acres of corpses of fallen soldiers. As the decades have passed, the poppy has been worn to show one’s respect for the millions who have died in successive conflicts as recent as Iraq and Afghanistan. On British television, every presenter and anchor wears a poppy. In keeping with the motto of the British Legion—“Wear your poppy with pride”—every shopkeeper, publican, hotel manager and cabbie wears a poppy. This year I proudly bought mine at my local doctor’s office.

It was therefore all the more astonishing last week when I took a long walk along Edgware Road, the most densely Muslim section of London, and discovered that not one person was wearing a poppy. This all started because I was accosted on my corner, a few yards form where I have lived for twenty-eight years, by a young Arab man who began to get very aggressive with me. Was I, he demanded to know, “from the Jewish”?

He also wanted to know why I was wearing a poppy. I tried to explain the concept of the Cenotaph and Armistice Day. But he seemed determined to establish that I was a Jewess above all else. No matter how hard I tried, I could not shake him off. I began to get very alarmed. I hailed a taxi and, thankfully, my pursuer, who was by this time shouting, did not get into the taxi. The driver was enormously sympathetic but told me that I had been “asking for it” by walking in what he called “Little Beirut.” He then told me that we were in World War III. His white, working class anger at what he perceived as “the Islamic takeover” of Britain was palpable. He was not the first London cabbie who has told me he would gladly join the far-right British National Party if pushed.

(It is worth noting in this context that London Mayor Ken Livingstone is trying to institute an initiative to bring ethnic minorities into the taxi fleet, to tackle its almost exclusively white domain. Keeping in mind that Washington D.C. has one of the worst taxi systems in the world, in part because most drivers can barely speak English and do not know the meaning of the words “cordial” or “polite”, especially where female passengers are concerned, one prays the Livingstone initiative will be approached with caution.)

The driver dropped me at Marble Arch. I decided to walk back slowly should my scary have made his way in my direction. As I walked, I realized that not one of the hundreds of Middle Eastern and British-born Muslims who run all of the establishments along Edgware Road was wearing a poppy. Before shouting “Racist!” the reader must understand the nationwide atmosphere of devotion every November to the memory of the hundreds of thousands of men and women who died—often agonizing circumstances and with some in their teens—so that we might live out our lives in splendor. The fact is that most everyone wears a poppy across a grateful nation.

As I walked along Edgware Road, crossing over from side to side of the long thoroughfare I began to get angry. If one lived in Damascus and there was an annual tradition of some sort similar to Poppy Day, one would show respect for the day and join in.

I went in to a greengrocer and asked the young man at the cash register why he was not wearing a poppy. His accent indicated he was English-born. He said, “I have no idea what you are talking about.” He turned to an older man sitting with him -- perhaps his father -- and asked him my question in Urdu. The man looked cross and I repeated, “Why do you British Asians (those from Pakistan) not wear a poppy?” he shrugged. “Are you not taught about the World Wars?” I asked.

I walked and walked that evening, stopping in to every hookah café, every electrical shop and every hijab boutique. Not one person was wearing a poppy.

The British government has brought in a new questionnaire for new citizens. It is full of obscure and at times outlandish questions about British culture. Frankly, I would fail on most of them. What immigrants and their kin need to be taught is that basic pride in being British with which immigrants to the United States glow with such radiance. If a whole portion of the British population does not care a toss about participating in one of the nation’s most sacred traditions, how can we ever “integrate”?

Yes, I am angry and offended that along the miles of pavement I trawled I saw not one poppy on the apparel of any Middle Eastern resident and merchant of Edgware Road.

That evening I did what millions of rapt Britons do every year: I watched the magnificent Remembrance Day concert from the Royal Albert Hall on the BBC in primetime. The Queen looked unusually tense and somber. Shortly after the event we learned that Abu Musab al Zarqawi had issued a warning that Her Majesty, leader of the Crusaders, would be the next target of al Qaeda. There she stood, amid the shower of poppies that rained down on the packed hall, looking down on the thousands of brave service people, and she seemed desolate. The sum total the Muslim world could contribute to the commemorations of the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II was this ugly threat from a man whose only occupation is spreading misery in his wake, be it a wedding in Jordan or a funeral in Iraq.

When I attended the mobbed Cenotaph ceremony the next day I did not see one Middle Eastern person in the throng.

When I told my local grocer, a Muslim born in the UK, where I had been that day, he looked at me with a blank stare. I said “Cenotaph” and he changed the subject.

Why is wearing a poppy such a big deal to me? It is a tradition started in Canada and the United States that spread to Britain and to the Commonwealth nations, who had also suffered great losses in the Wars. As a Briton born in the USA I feel honored to be a citizen of two great democracies. Another point Madeleine Bunting made in her article was that the young Muslims in a studio audience had endless complaints about life in Britain. They want to change foreign policy. Perhaps learning about how we got here, with our concert halls and opera houses and theatre and art galleries -- not to mention war memorials -- might be a start.

Now think of this: I am mortally afraid to wear my American flag pin in London. What does this say about the direction Europe is going? Bat Ye’or’s “Eurabia” is already erupting in France. Politically correct Britons scream at me if I defend the right of a cabbie to have the Union Jack on his London taxi. Others lament the “appalling custom” of Americans hanging flags outside their houses.

But all I want right now is to see British Muslims wearing their poppy with pride.

Posted by: treehugger at November 24, 2005 2:02 PM

Robert, this is the first time I've visited your site. This is a beautiful article. Next time you must visit Israel for longer than a week. There are so many places you would enjoy - the Galilee and Golan, especially in the spring after the snow melt, the Arava and Negev desert... well, the list could go on. You've depicted the true picture of the political situation for Israel very well. Kol Hakavod (bravo) and thank you.

Posted by: annie at November 24, 2005 2:42 PM

"this is the first time I've visited your site."
-- from a posting above

All those who visit JW for the first time should acquaint themselves with the Archives, for little of what is contained therein dates. They are encouraged to click on November 2005, andto scroll through the various articles and to stop and read, here and there. And then to do the same for October 2005. And then September 2005, and so on, through the dark backward and abysm of time.

Yet another angle of attack is to click on the "Articles" on the bar above, or alternatively, to use google to put in "Jihad Watch" and then whatever topic -- say, "India" or "Zoroastrianism" or anything else, and you would be surprised what will turn up. Still another way is to click on "Jihad Watch" and "Posted by X" where X will be a poster's name.

What is put up each day is the tip of that famous iceberg, the only part above the surface of the water.

Go ahead -- be a divedapper, peering through the wave of information in this so-called Information Age.

Posted by: Hugh at November 24, 2005 3:00 PM

Thank you Hugh. I shall go and dive in forthwith :-)

By the way, Robert, you wrote "Many Israelis with whom I spoke discussed the weariness of the people after decades and decades of war. They said that many, and maybe even a majority, are willing to cut any deal, even one involving giving up half of Jerusalem, in order to buy a peace that they themselves acknowledge will last only a few years."

As an Israeli citizen I would venture to say that there are at least as many Israelis who, although certainly weary of the war, are not prepared to cut just any old deal, and certainly not one involving half of Jerusalem, to acquire "peace in our time".

Posted by: annie at November 24, 2005 3:05 PM

treehugger,

You might want to check out this Joe Guzzardi article.

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/americanisation.htm

One sentiment of note:

"In today’s multicultural America, an immigrant can pick and chose. He can take what he wants and leave alone what he doesn’t. What is taken is economic betterment and what’s left alone is all things American."

But as my wife of 30 years is a nicely Americanized immigrant, and a naturalized U.S. citizen, I know that he's not exactly right.

But, my wife is not a Muslim.

Happy T-day.

Posted by: PRCS at November 24, 2005 3:47 PM

Dear Naseem,

Why should the sovereign state of Israel allow foreign soldiers on it's soil, to protect it?
No other nation on the earth would agree to such a notion.
Israel should be left in peace- that's how peace is demonstrated and that's what muslims should do.... they will not however.

It would have no postive effect anyway- most muslim nations are open to Islamist attacks upon them for not being muslim enough. The real fact is- Israel is perfectly save for you to visit, as Israeli's don't blow up muslims or Christians, muslims do this: and it is religiously prescribed in the Koran and Hadiths,and throughout the public TV and education system in arab and muslim lands to do just that. Go to Memri.com and watch hundreds of the lovely arab and muslim tv programs advocating just this.

I'm sorry, I don't feel I want the protection of the muslims- I want the muslims to root out and destroy their homicidal parts- admit they have them, commit to real justice for nonmuslims, and have their 23 arab nations to live in and others 30 nations of muslim character and leave Israel in peace. I guess I'm asking just so much. Way way too much.
But you visit Israel- and live in peace.

Posted by: mgoldberg at November 24, 2005 3:58 PM

Robert -
Glad to hear about your trip!
Sounds fascinating.
Happy Thanksgiving!

Jeffrey Imm

Posted by: jeffreyimm at November 24, 2005 3:59 PM

Naseem, glad to hear you weren't hurt and your husband has recovered. Best wishes.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at November 24, 2005 4:10 PM

I had a Pakistani girlfriend when I lived in Israel. Among other things she never go to enter the mosque in the Old City because of -- oh, this thing, that thing, any other thing they could think of to keep her out. They, of course, being the Muslim gate keepers who didn't like a Pakistani girl entering their domain.

And the rest of the time in Jerusalem she had more troubles, like the local Arabs pushing her, stepping on her toes, and finally the last one to piss me off, the one who got her into his shop and tried to rape her, the one who was offended at my outrage, the one who said: "Why do you interfere? She's a nigger." Happy to say, he won't ever say any such thing again.

That's the side of Israel that I couldn't stomach, the Muslim side. On the other side, the Israelis were wonderful beyond compare, not just for a few weeks as a tourist but for years while I worked and lived there as a guest. And to this day the rotten bastard Presbyterians are doing whatever they can from the luxury of life in American suburbs to kill those people who allowed my some of the best life I've ever lived. Often I can hardly look at my own without getting sick. And when I think back to Israel I could faint from happiness.

Robert, I'm envious of your trip, but I'm glad you got to go. Maybe I'll see you next year in Jerusalem.

Posted by: sonofwalker at November 24, 2005 7:09 PM

Doesn't it seem so absurd and pathological all the attention the world focuses on such a small portion of the earth, meaning Israel.

But then it is explained in the Bible and the day will come when Israel will grow weary of the spiritual struggle. She will become so desparate for peace that subsequently, the anti-christ will arise by brokering a peace deal.

Posted by: learjet0450 at November 24, 2005 9:05 PM

Dear Naseem, it brought tears to my eyes to see people being concerned about your families safety. I am so glad that your family is back together again.. We all need to live together regardless of differences, not one being superior over another...
You said that it would be nice for Muslims to protect the Jews. I am sure that you wouldn't want to paid Jizah to have a contingent of American soldiers stationed in Pakistan, and neither would I, it would be hard to know how long one could trust any contingent and what circumstances would turn them into a killing machine.. It is the people of America, and Britain who are paying taxes of their wages to try to protect the Iraqi people, regardless of the hell and hatred that they are receiving from some of the Iraqi people and the risks of being killed... It is a shame that the people of Iraq don't realise and help them instead of their hatred...We cannot blame the Iraqi people as they are being told so many lies that they don't know who to believe, except what is being told by their own people... There are trouble makers in all nations, who thrive on mischief...

treehugger said: Haven't you read about the reoccurring programs that occurred when Jews lived in Muslim dominated lands? Treehugger here is an example of just that...
what all Arab nations have done to their Jewish population (who greatly contributed to making their Arab nations great)? The Arabs and Muslims stole everything the Jews had, and then either kicked them out or murdered them. Statistics of Jews in Arab Countries: Shocking - These stats were taken from "Myths and Facts" - a great book by Mitchell B. Bard. You can go to the internet link for this book at: http://standwithus.com/links.asp
First number is from the year 1948, the second number is taken from the year 2000:
Algeria 140,000,.........Less than 100
Egypt 75,000,..................... 200
Iran 100,000,.........12,000 to 40,000
Iraq 150,000,......................100
Lebanon 20,000,................... 100
Libya 38,000,....................... 0
Morocco 265,000,.................5,800
Syria 30,000,......... ............200
Tunisia 105,000,.................1,500
Yemen 55,000,....... ..............200
Warning from history:

Turkish Muslims killed 3.5 million Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Nestorians and Coptic Christians in the 20th century. This holocaust is largely unknown in western Europe as the systematic killings took place on Orthodox Christians purely for their faith.
Muslims killings Christians for no other reason than they were "kafir".

Can today's Muslims see a link with the Islamofascists of today and the tendency for Muslim countries to be ruled by the worst elements in their societies... what is it that permits the rule of such ignorance and barbarity?
All nations have done atrocities, Including Christian nations, (which doesn't make their leaders Christians, nor does it mean that all the people are Christians, people in the west are not forced to believe, so there might only be a third of the people who are Christians), but there is no other nation which has committed atrocities because their religion tells them to rid the world of those who don't believe...

Posted by: Gaye at November 24, 2005 11:17 PM

Robert,
There are great places to visit here in Yerushalayim/Yerushalem. There is a lot of beauty here despite everything. If I had known you were coming, I would have sent you a list. I'm sure you saw some of them but some places are seen by only a few tourists and pilgrims. And then, when the traveler's legs grow weary, there are great restaurants with all sorts of tasty food. Combining tourism and dining, you could go to the Quarter Cafe in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City in the daytime, and view the Temple Mount, Mount of Olives, and the Qidron Valley far into the desert, while drinking your espresso. Life goes on despite "peace diplomacy" and mass murder bombers.

Posted by: Eliyahu at November 25, 2005 12:02 AM

Ultimately, if the nations of the world are interested in defending universal human rights and the equality of dignity of all people, they need to stand with Israel.

What I've been saying all along. The way of Israel will ultimately be the way for the rest of us..

Hey, Robert, while in Israel did you secretly meet with the global Zionist cabal to discuss taking over the world?

Naseen states:

An army type who is a neighbour here in Lahore says that ME peace could be had if Israel paid Jizah to have a contingent of muslim soldiers stationed in Israel to protect Israel

Golly, what a nice pleasant twist you put on subjugation, Naseem. Thanks for articulating the Muslim end-game for all non Islamic countries. (Let us protect you dhimmi, otherwise we'll cut your heads of ... Sweet deal, aint it?) But I think Israeli soldiers are perfectly capable of defending Israel -- they just need to have their hands untied.

Posted by: Kemaste at November 25, 2005 1:13 PM

Hello all,

Thank you for your concern for the welfare of my family. It was very well recieved. For a while I feared the worst but my hubbi got better quickly once recovery started.

As for Israel, I want to say that I have no qualms abot the existance of Israel, they form a part of muslim history and no one can change that.

I think they are an industrious people, and I hope that we can all live in peace one day.

I put the point forward about the Jizah because the army type (a colonel no less) was adamant that peace could be had ..at a small price too.

US soldiers have been stationed in Europe for over 50 years, in S. Korea for decades...so it's not unprecendented is it?

Posted by: Naseem at November 25, 2005 1:32 PM

Naseem:

The fact that you pose this question sincerely underscores so clearly the problem the world faces with Islam.

The gap between the sheltered, muslim-centric mindset and the generally held views of equality, mutual respect, and self-determination within the rest of the civilized world is overwhelming.

It is not determination that makes Islam relentless, but rather ignorance. Ignorance can't be threatened, it can't be appeased, and unfortunately in this case, it can't be left alone.

You seem well intentioned Nassem. I hope you have the opportunity to travel and see more of the world. I'm happy to hear that your family is well in Pakistan.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at November 25, 2005 4:47 PM

What a wonderful thread to read and reflect on.

Robert, I'm so glad that you were able to meet with Natan Sharansky and to provide him copies of the P.I.G. and Onward Muslim Soldiers. I hope he reads them, takes your words to heart, and adjusts his own expectations of what can and can't happen in the muslim world.

Tree-hugger, I've spent time with Mormon friends in places that serve alcohol. They have a coke (for some reason, the caffeine contained therein is OK, while coffee and tea is not ... but that's another story) while I have a beer or two, or three. It isn't a problem for them, or for me. They don't demand that I give up alcohol as a prerequisite for friendship or communication. And, sure, they'd love it if I joined the LDS, but they don't feel the need to kill me if I don't.

Posted by: Infidel33 at November 25, 2005 5:34 PM

Infidel33:

My experience with Mormon friends back in my college days was exaclty the same as yours. They would join in the activities with everyone else, except they wouldn't drink beer (in fact I recall Squirt being the beverage of choice, so they were even good about the caffeine). I never caught a hint of them being judgmental or having a superiority complex.

I beleive the root of Islam's problems, and the problems they create for the rest of the world, reside in the inherent belief of unconditional superiority, regardless of contributions, achievements, or actions.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at November 25, 2005 6:30 PM

Sheik,
Let's talk about it. Put your comment on my site with an email address.
E

Posted by: Eliyahu at November 26, 2005 4:32 PM

Itai,

I think it's support that Israel lacks, not testosterone.

Posted by: Bill_Carson at November 26, 2005 11:53 PM