Negotiate all you want they won't give this up. They won't stop until Dar-al-Harb is radioactive.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 28, 2005 1:17 PM

So why have a muslim as the chief atomic inspectorate. Are you not afraid that he will "apply latitude" to muslim countries.

I for one am very interested how this particular argument will pan out. More than likely the West will pay through the nose to keep Iran nucleur free.

What was that saying again....I think it went something like " a billion a day keeps the mullah away".

I hope the West does not cave in to that line but as they will...pretty much as usual...more's the pity as the mullahs are probably THE global threat.

Those who think that the Shites are the softer side of Islam...well you'd better think again.

Posted by: Naseem at November 28, 2005 2:20 PM

Only Reuel Gerecht and others at My Weekly Standard, aided of course by all those thoroughly westernized Shi'a who have been telling more of the truth, as much as they can bear to without confronting head on Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, about the nature of the Middle East. The "typical representatives" of "Shi'a Islam" known to the editors of My Weekly Standard, and to the U.S. Government, have included such highly typical Shi'a (just the kind you find in SCIRI and DAWA and Moqtada al-Sadr's ranks, or the ranks of Hezbollah, or of the basiji) include: Fouad Ajami (Lebanese Shi'a who has been in the United States for 3-4 decades; Kanan Makiya, scion of a well-to-do iraqi family, who has been out of Iraq for 2-3 decades; Ahmad Chalabi, scion of a very well-to-do Iraqi familywho has been in the West for nearly fifty years; and Rend al-Rahim Francke, an American citizen since 1987, out of the Middle East for the past 30 years at least, a graduate of the Sorbonne and the University of Cambridge -- ah yes, quite a collection of "representative" and "typical" Shi'a, which is why Reuel Gerecht and company can complacently place their hopes and dreams on the Shi'a, without bothering too much about the Islamic Republic of Iran, taqiyya, or the fact that in Iraq, it is -- for some paradoxically -- the Sunni Ba'athists, though now forced to accept aid from non-Iraqi Sunni Muslims who want even more Islam than do the Shi'a, and hate the Shi'a for being "Rafidite dogs" (i.e. Infidels of the worst kind), in fact are less eager to return to the full-court press of Islam than the party leaders of DAWA and SCIRI.

Shi'a Islam is as dangerous to Infidels as Sunni Islam. The belif that it is not is simply one more mechanism for holding out hope that it's not Islam, it's just this brand of Islam, which can be "extremist" or "radical" Islam (carefully undefined) or "Wahabbi" Islam or "Wahabi Salafist" Islam, or "islamofascism" --just season to taste. But Infidels show up on that list of Unclean Things that Shi'a clerics keep. Khomeini, and assorted ayatollahs and hojatols, are not fans of Infidels. How could they be? Sunni and Shi'a alike read the same Qur'an, with the same bloodcurdling passages, read the same Hadith, and take as their model the same Muhammad, his life spelled out in the same Sira. Their paths diverged in 661 A.D., after Muhammad had been dead for nearly 30 years. The fury, the rage, the persecution, the warfare -- all that is based on Ali and Hussein, and a whole subsequent mythology, or theology, that has nothing to do with a lessening of hatred for Infidels.

Those who have learned about Shi'a Islam have been bewitched by professional soft-spoken thoroughly delightful charmers, charmers who still will not describe Islam as the source of the Muslim world's permanent intellectual disarray, its tendency to despotism, its inshallah-fatalism a substitute for work and entrepreneurial activity, its mistreatment of women adn minorities, charmers who, retaining their filial piety, simply cannot bring themselves to utter a public word about Islam except, at times, to claim to be freethinkers (as Kanan Makiya has) and then, in the next moment, to become angrily defensive if it is sensed that Islam itself is being attacked.

The psychology of the "moderate" Muslim, the unobservant and worldly and practically "Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only" Muslim who nonetheless cannot bear to consider that Islam itself is the problem, is what creates such an abyss between those who have seen their way clear -- the real apostates, such as Ibn Warraq -- and those who just can't, just won't, and whose value to us, the Infidels, is therefore, from here on out, far more limited than we have allowed ourselves, heretofore, content merely with the fact that Fouad Ajami and Kanan Makiya and Azar Nafisi are good guys (or girls), who saw right through and exposed Edward Said, but just can't go along the same path with us any longer. Their refusal to analyze Islam limits them.

That's it. It was nice while it lasted. But now the Infidel world has to find its guides to Islam not from the most presentable, plausible, friendly, articulate, unobservant, Western-educated, and entirely unrepresentative Muslims, whether Sunni or Shi'a, but from the defectors from Islam -- just as was done with defectors from Communism, and not the nicest, kindest, most plausible party members, during the Cold War.

A change. A big and necessary change. Policymakers were led astray, let themselves be led astray, in Iraq. They were prevented from seeing that Islam, the spread of Islam, the islmamization of Europe with or without terrorism, is the problem.

That mistake must not continue. To regard Muslims warily, and to take their views, as Muslims, with assorted grains of sea salt, may offend them. But hurt feelings of those very nice, westernized, soft-spoken, pleasant quasi-Muslims are as nothing compared to the kind of relentless wariness that Infidels must learn. Something harder, possibly harsher, but much more realistic, has to be achieved.

Posted by: Hugh at November 28, 2005 4:08 PM

The whole Iranian nuke saga is just complete bullshit. The UN engages in endless chatter so reminiscent of the League of Nations.

Everyone on this board (ie: the league of Prophets) knows full well that the Iranians are going to soon possess a nuclear arsenal.

Why don't the Europeans either just shut their mouths, or alternatively go and help the Iranians to make their nukes. They are going to get them anyway, in spite of all your important chatter.

Actually folks, this is where "shuttle diplomacy" so so useful. You have diplomats constantly flying from one city to another and then back again. The fact that nothing gets achieved is besides the point, because what is important is that it looks good, and it sounds cool, as if someone, somewhere is serious. Results are irrelevant...

If the Iranians ended up nuking various European cities, I can just hear the French and the Germans saying in response (to millions of deaths), "We need to have a negotiation..." First though, we need to get some diplomats assembled altogether, standing around in a circle and clinking together glasses of champagne...

Is it really any wonder that Europe is burning? Ha ha ha

Posted by: PrinceHarry at November 29, 2005 2:11 AM

We in the West are the frogs in the water that is being heated up by the Islamic threat.

This site is a rare one. It seeks to measure the temperature and to warn us.

80% of the mosques in the West are radicalized. They preach sedition.

They should be bulldozed.

As for Iraq, a timetable for withdrawel is surrender.

Not pleasant being likened to the frog in the water, is it ?

Whatcha gonna do about it ?

Posted by: dgene at November 29, 2005 8:55 AM

dgene:

"Not pleasant being likened to the frog in the water, is it ?

Whatcha gonna do about it ?"

Well, I for one am getting pretty hot under the collar.
I used to be just a bit steamed up but lately I'm getting boiling mad.

Posted by: Mike_W at November 29, 2005 9:20 AM

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" was that not the words of Pres.Roosevelt? That "Big Stick" would a few well placed bombs falling on the mullah's nuclear sites!! The U.N. is a big failure, no wonder
Iran and other rogue states do what they please!

Posted by: Lulu at December 1, 2005 8:37 AM