Radical muslim husband must not have been happy with Belgian wife to convince her to blow herself up. Does he still get to stay in Belgium?

Posted by: 3812Michelle at November 29, 2005 6:46 PM

EU Attacks US over rumored detention centers

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e2fd25be-612b-11da-9b07-0000779e2340.html

As we can see, the so-called "allies" are not upto speed with which war is being fought, and whom the enemies are. The EU is happy to strengthen NATO to the hilt -- an obsolete organization to fight some obsolete war that no longer needs to be fought -- and in the meantime, the same EU cares not a wit for the War on Terror, paris riots and london subway bombings not withstanding.

The US has the wrong allies who are focused on the wrong things. The War on Terror cannot be won when the allies are undermining it.

Posted by: sanman at November 29, 2005 6:51 PM

First female European bomber, what an achievment! Looks like Islam is the progressive, feminist multi-cultural religion we've been told it is after all.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at November 29, 2005 7:12 PM

this woman must really hate herself, her culture, her sex! l would hope she is in the minority of Belgians..

Posted by: Lulu at November 29, 2005 7:17 PM

There are no traces of her radical husband who is believed to have organized her trip.
Not even bits and pieces?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 29, 2005 7:37 PM

Is anyone aware of any psychological studies conducted on muslim converts?

I would be very interested. I have some theories, which I've only partially tested on the internet.
I through out an idea, and then judge it's efficacy by the nature of the response - criteria used is that only stuck pigs squeal.

There was an article last year or year before about 30,000 women converted to Islam in Britain, and a documentary put out about four such converts "Mum, I'm a Muslim".. I chalk it up to a numnber of things such as defiant oppositional behavior, trendiness ("It's cool to be different") and a lack of self esteem (what I call other esteem vs real self esteem, which few have since we are generally raised to be other esteemed).

Why would a woman marry into a culture that devalues her as a being, unless she was raised in her native culture to devalue herself (Burqa and Bikini are two sides of the same phenomenon..objectification of women as objects of sex and man's desire).

I'm pretty sure I understand the motivation as to why blacks (particularly black Americans convert to Islam, enough has been written about and by them, and one only has to listen to the speeches of Malcolm X, they are oblivious to or ignorant of the role of Arabs past and present in the slave trade, were it not for black Muslims slave traders, there would have been no slaves to sell).

The psychology of modern converts intrigues me, especially since the overwhelming majority of them come from Catholic Families (such as Azzam the American, Adam Gadahn).. Why would Peace Train Cat Stevens convert to such a militant war ideology?

I know (on the internet) two women who married Arabs, one is a German gal, blonde, her husband however moved on to a younger more accomodating woman, yet she remains sympathetic to Arabs (Muslims) and another was wooed by a wealthy Arab, married him and moved with him to a Gulf State Emirate. She is honest, at least, about the pressures on women, and their marginal submissive status, however she is not to critical and defends the culture.

Other men, who convert, do so because they "fell in love" with (the submissive) muslim woman, which empowered him, makes him feel sexy and in control.

And although he may have converted simply to marry, cognitive dissonance takes over, and the mind follows the mouth. Such is the case with a few that I have met, like a Swede who married a Moroccan gal.

This female Belgian convert, would only have consented to suicide in the way of Allah, had she not been preconditioned to devalue herself in the first place.

If your starting point is a negative self image, there is nowhere to go, and if your self image, your identity is based on what others think (including a god), then you are easily manipulated.

The Stockholm Syndrome is not a universal, many POW's and prisoners have emerged not only unscathed, but adamant and unforgiving of their captors.

There has to be an emotional/psychological deficit, a lack of a well grounded, personal identity, ego, sense of self, for them to take on the mentality, beliefs and attitudes of their "captors".

A lot of words to say, that they (and this woman in particular) was not raised to appreciate or validate herself...but to believe that she was what other people thought her to be, to obtain her value and worth, as it were, from her husband and her adopted tribe.

Chances are that by marrying this Arab she thought that she was special, or was rebelling against her family.In any event she obviously came to think she was special and identified with her captors.

I'm thinking of Margaret Hassan, the air headed Irish Gal,
who at age 17 married a 26 year old Iraqi Tahseen Ali Hassan. Her conversion and sincereity helped her nothing, she was executed when Britain failed to accede to demands that British Forces be withdrawn.

I saw Margarets husband, interviewed on Abu Dhabi TV, he did not appear at all grief stricken or concerned.

There is another kidnapping of Susan Osthoff with her Iraqi driver, and the demand this time is that Germany withdraw any and all support of the Iraqi regime, including trade, construction and of course the training of the Iraqi Army (in Jordan).

So what is a German Archaelogist doing running around Iraq, these days, when all other foreigners hide in the Green Zone or heavily guarded hotels?

Another air head...who lacks the sense to come in out the rain, or to remove herself from danger.

Posted by: Nariz at November 29, 2005 8:14 PM

"There are no traces of her radical husband who is believed to have organized her trip."

Apparently, there are no traces of her either.

Ain't love grand?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 29, 2005 8:17 PM

I wonder how much he had her insured for?

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at November 29, 2005 8:27 PM

Nariz:

Not a psychological study per se, but here's the take of an ex-pat Saudi who blogs as "The Religious Policeman" from the relative safety of UK and who has dedicated his site to the memory of the teenaged girls who perished in a dormitory fire because the religious policemen wouldn't let them leave the building or allow firemen in on account of "modesty".

Somehow "Alhamedi's" closing observation seems appropos of this story:

Three American women, who converted to Islam recently, want to live in Saudi Arabia in the vicinity of the holy mosques.

[...]

Aysha came to the fold of Islam after the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States. The kamikaze attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon ignited her interest in Islam.

That's what put her on to "The Beauty of Islam". Hmmm. It struck me as being like the vegetarian who started eating meat after watching the "Hannibal" movie.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 29, 2005 8:29 PM

"Is anyone aware of any psychological studies conducted on muslim converts?"
-- from a poster above

This is an important question, an important line of inquiry. What makes the convert? Is it, as one of the Glass family brothers -- Seymoour, Buddy, Zooey -- explains Franny's behavior, "it's just sex talking." Liquid brown eyes, soft voice, the allusion to victimiziation ("Palestinian" or otherwise)? And what does the real victim, the female who converts because she marries a Muslim, not knowing very much about the whole thing, do as she learns more? Stand by her man? Decide her man is not her man after all? Follow him down the yellow brick road of his own belief-system?

A lot of work for the American Psychological Association, and forensic psychiatrists everywhere. They should get cracking.

Everyone can start not with Freud's Wolf-man -- or is Wolf-Man Jack, I can't remember -- but with an extremely acute Lone Wolf, the author of "The True Believer," the undatable, poor, powerless, truth-telling Eric Hoffer, of the San Francisco docks.

Posted by: Hugh at November 29, 2005 8:39 PM

Oh, the zeal of the recently converted - I don't know of another 'religion' which wants a convert
to explode themselves and innocent civilians [maybe their own friends & relations] TO PROVE THEY BELONG TO DEATH ALLAH!
There are feeble minded people of every Nationality of course which ROP seems to target;crims in jail, young unemployed & petty offenders, drugs & booze drop outs, also vulnerable women of low self esteem. Maybe if Western Countries started hanging Terrorists and
Traitors these idiots might think again. By the time they're Suicide Bombers only a few bits of toast are left...
BELIEVE THE BATTLE MUST BE FOUGHT AT GRASS ROOTS - THIS EVIL IDEOLOGY CHALLENGED AT EVERY VERSE OF KORAN - THE IDEA OF VIRGINS WAITING FOR BOMBERS etc.
Until our leaders identify ISLAM AS THE PROBLEM
and quit pussyfooting around nothing much will change.

Posted by: Morgane at November 29, 2005 8:43 PM

If Belgian converts are blowing themselves up in Baghdad, how soon will they do it in Europe?

Posted by: Voltaire at November 29, 2005 8:51 PM

How sad, how pitiful are the slaves of allah.

Posted by: the poetess at November 29, 2005 8:52 PM

Nariz

You may wish to be aware about recent comments made by a UK convert, Yvonne Ridley, found at Harry's Place:

Former Fleet Street journalist Yvonne Ridley was a candidate for Respect in the last general election. Here she is on the recent bombings in Ammam:

I mean we can not simply shrug our shoulders at the deaths of 61 people. But let's have a closer look at those who perished: * Five of those who died were Iraqis who were working closely with America? in other words, collaborators.

One Saudi, Indonesian and three Chinese intelligence officers were also wiped out. Shame, but those who live by the sword .....? *

And then there was the wedding party. OK, so the guests were part of Jordan's upper echelons of society, others had flown in from America and were known for their close ties to the monarchy. But that still doesn't mean they should be punished for their status in life. Interesting though, that the bombers chose the bars serving alcohol for their martyrdom operations in two of the hotels. Now while we know alcohol is strictly haram, it's an Islamic ruling which the King of Jordan chooses to openly ignore, and in a Muslim country. King Abdullah is a chip off the old block, really. Well they say the apple does not fall far from the tree. You see he is protected by his CIA bosses and looked after by Mossad.

She's not happy about the extended al-Zarqawi family coming out and criticising the mass murderer Abu Musab al-Zarqawi either.

As I said earlier in this column, it is very hard to justify the deaths of innocents (You did pretty well though Yvonne; nine out of ten for effort pet - H). But you know, I wonder if you see that attack on the Jordanian hotels in a different light now? But let's get back to the original theme of this column - black sheep and family honor. I think I'd rather put up with a brother like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi any day than have a traitor or sell-out for a father, son or grandfather.

Posted by: slowjoe at November 29, 2005 8:55 PM

Ridley?

Aliens?

Just a thought....

Posted by: Gary at November 29, 2005 9:18 PM

To see converts in action visit. http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/

The site is run by a certain Yusuf Smith an Englishman.

Posted by: spencerd at November 29, 2005 9:49 PM

In canada,high school and university muslim male students are encouraged to lure white christian and jewish girls,and bring them to the fold of islam. For this ,Saudi funds are provided for the 'courting Expences' of prospect victim. The boy is allowed to take her to dances,drink alcohal,even swear to her that he will forsake his religion for her sake. Once she falls into his net and eventual marriage and a baby,the true immage of that guy emerges. He forces her to accept Islam and cover her self with burka.If she goes with him to his native country,that is the end of her freedom. For all this, he is suitably rewared . Without knowing this fact ,so many innocent educated girls are fallen,and still falling in to this racket,to the dismay of their helpless parents.Once a girl is courted by a muslim boy,she is guarded by the female muslims of that school or college,so that she cannot go away from him.

Posted by: rafia at November 29, 2005 9:51 PM

Rafia,

That is indeed chilling. The most disturbing part of your story is that these Moslem guys can "act" for such a long time before showing their true colors. Might that not be the Moslem's special gift? If they can string along an unknowing girl from a western family, long enough to get married and have a baby, then couldn't they lay low in any suburb in the U.S. and change there attitude once there is a majority? Something to think about if we are really going to protect our American values.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 29, 2005 10:06 PM

Scott Peterson sitting on death row: note to self - you dumb f$*k- why didn't I pretend to be a muslim?

Posted by: GFB at November 29, 2005 10:12 PM

Hugh's analysis of the psychology of the Western convert to virulent Islam (rather than Islam Lite) leaves out, once again, the factor of PC Leftism that probably predated that woman's conversion by years, decades, maybe her whole life.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 29, 2005 10:13 PM

hey voltaire

"If Belgian converts are blowing themselves up in Baghdad, how soon will they do it in Europe?"

they have already carried out suicide bombings in london 7/7/05 and in spain.

these bastards are animals. but their idealology is mind boggling, how can we defeat such a foe? with our liberal left wing idealologies? 60's beatnick philosophies? neo con "let's bomb the hell out of 'em" rhetoric?

the only way that we can defeat these people is to tear out the roots. That means a drastic sociological upheavel, an end to this social welfare state, an end to liberalism and the government experimentation with political correctness.

but how can we carry this out without ending up in a dictatorship?

how can the liberal west defeat islamic jihad without us losing our freedoms? freedom to think for ourselvess and pray to whom ever god we choose without the fear of being ostracised or condemned by the state. christmas is a dirty word in some parts of the UK? the flag of st. george is banned and normal folk face imprisonment, in a christian country? churches are firebombed and white folk are being ethnically cleansed in parts of the east end of london and bradford.

a minority are pulling the strings in the west, a minority of hard left marxists, they control the press, the information age, this virtual web. this is 1984 folks, we have arrived. how will we win?

Posted by: lord lucan at November 29, 2005 10:20 PM

Rafia, I went to a Canadian University that had a very large Muslim student population. I even...I hate to say it...accepted Islam, but I have since left it and it is all behind me now. Muslim guys, mainly Lebanese, court white girls because they think they are easy, they get what they want and then treat them like shit. (Actually, many guys behave this way) However, I never came across an organized Saudi-funded program to lure innocent (usually not so innocent) Christian girls into the fold of Islam. Many (unfortunately) come to it on their own accord and Nariz listed some reasons in a posting above.
I suspect you're a Middle Eastern Christian who for good reason holds a lot of animus towards Islam and Muslims. I am not saying you are being liberal with the facts but I just never came across a program like you described.

Posted by: spencerd at November 29, 2005 10:20 PM

"...And what does the real victim, the female who converts...do as she learns more? Stand by her man? Decide her man is not her man after all?"

I think she straps a bomb around her waist and blows her miserable embittered self up.

Posted by: jsla at November 29, 2005 10:33 PM

Dr. Pepper,

You're spot on, I read Chomsky, Zinn, subscribed to the New Left Review, the New Statesman and other unreadable rubbish I can't remember. I was also seeing a hot little Yemeni item at the time, so maybe it was something more biological like cherchez les femmes.
I noticed that white male converts came invariably from the left and black converts usually, rightly or wrongly, were quite chippy, by converting it was their way of striking out at a society that they feel had aggrieved them. Theo Dalrymple wrote a bit on this about prison conversions among Jamaican inmates.

Posted by: spencerd at November 29, 2005 10:36 PM

I wish Lord Lucan was alive today, he would know what to do.

Posted by: spencerd at November 29, 2005 10:38 PM

What if this poor woman couldn't stand her life and was so desperate to get away from her Islamic prison that she would rather be dead than live that life? What kind of religion takes away every shred of hope?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 29, 2005 10:41 PM

sanman
Right on. I've been watching EU's harping on Eastern European nations who have joined the war on terrorism and have aligned theselves with the US. It's a huge political and cultural leap for those countries, even though the EU weighs heavily on every aspect of life in those parts of Europe.
It's the "work" of a new priviledged, mandarin class, the apparatchicks and bureaucreats with fat salaries in Brussels. They issue fiats and dictates, while pocketing bribes from the new oligarchies. They produce ureadable and inane "reports" (trash) day after day, misunderstanding every single national concern/identity, and paving the road for dhimmitude while craving en masse for the cocktail hour and its all-expenses-paid martinis and shrimp in puff pastry.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at November 29, 2005 10:41 PM

Yes spencerd, I could be wrong, but I can't imagine even a Western conservative who parrots the PC line (and there are millions now) crossing over to suicide-bomb in the name of Allah -- but I can easily imagine a PC Leftist (or, on a much smaller statistical scale, an ultra-right-wing Aryan Nation type) doing that.

And a Western conservative who still has pride in the West and who doesn't think the historical expansion of the West and Western progress were & are automatically bad things -- well, it would be unimaginable for such a person to cross over.

How much does Hugh wanna bet this Belgian woman wasn't a Catholic conservative who loves DWEMs?

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 29, 2005 10:56 PM

Peter Hitchen's, when writing about a white female convert in Britain, had a great term for people like this, he called them "unchurched" He lamented the fact that fewer than five percent of British Christian children go to Sunday school to learn the basics of their religion. Islam is just filling a vacum.

Posted by: spencerd at November 29, 2005 11:04 PM

lord lucan

let's bomb the hell out of 'em

Do you even know what "neo-con" means? It used to mean a 1960's leftist who became a conservative. Now it's mainly an anti-Semitic slur. You might want to consider some new terminology.

Posted by: Beagle at November 29, 2005 11:17 PM

“How sad, how pitiful are the slaves of allah.” - the poetess

Here in the states, some unspeakable act is perpetrated on fellow citizens with an almost regularity. I gasp in horror when someone drives their children into the lake, murders coworkers, or even the most horrid, megalomaniacal mass death, like Waco. Each time this happens I think…these people are seriously deranged, mentally unstable, nuts.

These suicide murderers are under the influence of Islam and, willingly or not, are nothing but cannon fodder when they are sacrificed for Allah and collect their prize.

Islam. Mind control. The power to make someone kill for God.

If I had the power, I would crush Islam like an insect - bloodsucker, parasite of humanity.

Posted by: butterfly at November 29, 2005 11:38 PM

Beagle writes of lord lucan's diss on "neo cons"
that their line is "let's bomb the hell out of them". Ha! If only it were, things would be OK.
The neocons are possessed of the idea that we just set up democracies in mohamadan cultures and
everything is OK. That sounds beautiful, but it won't work.

Yes, neocon originally meant a (largely 60s) leftist who became a conservative. Now it means "dirty plotting Jew bastard".

Anyways, I don't fit the latter definition of neocon, but I fit lucan's definition. Not all we
should do of course, and as I have said before,
mockery is the H-Bomb here, but a thorough bombing which transcends the electrochemical
would be cathartic.

I remember seeing a movie, in French no less, called "Ridicule", and recalling the plot of the
movie, I think that if the French could even recover that cruel, aristocratic art, and use it to mock the savages they let in, that they may yet prevail. But that dream is receding, to be replaced by Frankenstan.

Posted by: American at November 30, 2005 12:10 AM

Disturbing news. Hopefully, ethnic European Muslims won't become suicide bombers in Europe and the U.S.

Pay close attention here Europe!

Muslims on the rise in Europe will surely bring about some awful violence in the years to come.

The psychology of Muslim suicide bombers is indeed an interesting topic to study. I have heard about some comparisons being made between Muslim suicide bombers and Japanese kamikaze pilots during World War II.

What they both have in common is a misguided sense of "honor killing" for the sake of their divine emperor/bloodthirsty Allah, who hates outsiders/infidels and desires innocent ones to be blown up for the purification of the nation/ Islamic religion. But the kamikaze suicide bombers during World War II were more civilized than todays Muslim suicide bomber. At least the kamikaze targeted military targets, not innocent American civilians.

There is a sense of "noble courage" that motivates the Muslim suicide bomber or Japanese kamikaze pilot to kill themselves by inflicting the maximum amount of pain on the enemy.

The mindset that motivates the suicide bomber and kamikaze pilot are strinkingly similar in that both tend to view their religion or nation as superior to all others in the world. Therefore, to give up one's life to defend the religion or motherland is viewed as the highest calling that brings about a pleothra of blessings.

Reward in the afterlife is a sure thing.

Islam is a religion that makes many demands upon its adherents or folllowers. In many Muslim countries, suicide bombers are greatly revered as religious models of holiness. Take for instance the case of some Palestinians. In some Palestinian towns, there are trading cards (so called holy cards) passed around to young children that idolize Muslim suicide bombers who kill Jewish people.

The Koran is filled with passages that glorify killing for the sake of Islam. To advance the cause of Islam menas that there will be a struggle. This is all built into the Islamic ethos.

The Islamic faith is a religion that seeks to utterly control the life of a Muslim follower. Islam should be categorized as a cult, not a true religion. In Islam, apostasy is the gravest of sins that is punishable by death. Sharia seeks to place Islam in the highest position in a society -that being judge and ruler. Forget about philosophical inquiry or following a person's own conscience. Islam just gives you its laws with its "divine mandates" from 7th century Saudi Arabia.

I am absolutely shocked that there is not more investigative reporting in the west about the root causes for religious extremism within Islam. The majority of television networks are scared to death about covering Islam in a critical way. They would rather do feature reports about how Muslims are marginalized and victims of persecution. This kind of story wins the hearts of a politically correct bleeding heart liberal but does not educate about the true nature of Islam. Any kind of reporting that may invoke criticism against Islam is considered to "hate speech". Better not to have the attack dogs from the A.C.L.U. after you.

How many more suicide bombings or violence done in the name of Islam will the politically correct west endure before it rises to the occasion and begin to think critically about Islam?

A European Muslim who fights the battle of jihad by becoming a suicide bomber should turn some heads in the west and cause some media attention. But the only place where it seems to be covered is here on jihadmatch. Sadly, the western media would rather investigate U.S. military abuses at Gutonomo Bay, Cuba or Chaplain James Yee's maltretament because he is a Muslim than report about the disturbing trends that are plaguing the west with Islam in our midst.

Posted by: Johnathan at November 30, 2005 1:57 AM

I am soooooo not surprised...

Posted by: Gorkhali at November 30, 2005 2:00 AM

Have read Yvonne Ridley's comments on suicide bombings in Jordan - where she defends and glorifies these atrocities. So annoyed ventured into prose which I donated to 'Yvonne Ridley
blog' where madam smiles vacuously from her hijab/burka.

Yvonne, Yvonne
What a Ding Dong
A lipstick Jihadi and Journo Twit
Making lots of money out of it
Tokyo Rose is well known
But you're a traitor home grown
Build a gallows and hang 'em high
You and Galloway with bribes and lies
To join Allah's Brothel in the sky...

Wonder if Belgian Convert's loving hubby will spend much time mourning her or will soon look for a younger gal??
Imagine their last moments together.
He:"Have a good trip dear."
She:"We will be reunited in Paradise. I'll meet Allah first because I don't want you messing with Virgins."
He: "Don't get jealous my Sweet. You know our Religion allows Polygamy. At least you are going out with a Bang..."

Yes it is always the Abu Hamzas,Yvonne Ridley,Omar Bakri, Osama etc WHO PREACH AND INCITE OTHERS TO BECOME SUICIDE BOMBERS BUT NOT
THEMSELVES.

Posted by: Morgane at November 30, 2005 2:31 AM

"The psychology of modern converts intrigues me, especially since the overwhelming majority of them come from Catholic Families"

Do you actually have evidence (ie data) to back this assertion up?

Posted by: SnowDawg at November 30, 2005 2:56 AM

This just proves that contact with Islam is toxic. Like illegal amphetamines, or cocaine, or crack cocaine, or PCP, where the drug itself causes criminal behavior, contact with Islam does something similar.
It may be that converts or 'borns', are defective personalities to begin with, and can easilly be pushed over the edge. But 'all' of them? What inducement could her hubby have promised her to kill herself for Allah? Would she do it for no reason? Maybe the louse threatened her family or something. And what about him...why did he give up a western sex partner? He wont get any virgins from Allah for convincing 'her' to off herself for Allah. So what's he getting out of it? An easy divorce?
There is something wierd about this, but then these people 'are' muslims, and Islam 'is' wierd.
The psychotic emenations pour out of Islam like an over flowing toilet. This is Islams evil equivelant of the Bibles, 'My cup runneth over'. Plunging wont help, the whole thing needs to be Roto Rooted.

Posted by: duh_swami at November 30, 2005 3:02 AM

"defective personalities to begin with, and can easilly be pushed over the edge."

My thoughts exactly

Posted by: SnowDawg at November 30, 2005 5:42 AM

Snowdawg~ nariz sees a strong bond between islamic and Christian thought. Those of us here who Are Christian know he is Wrong, of course... I would suggest the individual backgrounds of those people be studied, not the faith they happened to be born into. I'm betting they decided at some point that Christianity failed them.

Posted by: Gary at November 30, 2005 7:03 AM

Family of Belgian suicide bomber raided (update)
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=24&story_id=25769&name=Family+of+Belgian+suicide+bomber+raided
Police raided 10 premises in Brussels overnight in a suspected link to reports on Tuesday that a Belgian woman recently carried out a suicide bomb attack in Iraq.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at November 30, 2005 7:07 AM

OT

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17420499-401,00.html

Timor deaths 'covered-up'
From: AAP From correspondents in London
November 30, 2005

THE Australian and British governments colluded to cover up the killing of five Australian-based journalists in East Timor in 1975, new documents reveal.

Five television journalists – Greg Shackleton, Gary Cunningham and Tony Stewart of the Seven Network, and Malcolm Rennie and Brian Peters of the Nine Network – were killed while covering Indonesia's invasion of East Timor.
Official reports say the men, known as the Balibo Five, were killed in crossfire, but an inquest in Australia next year will examine the long-held theory that they were murdered by Indonesian forces.

British Foreign Office documents, including communiques from Jakarta to Downing Street, have been obtained by relatives of those killed and have been published in The Times in London.

They openly discuss collusion with the Australian Government to cover up the true story behind their deaths.

"We have suggested to the Australians that, since we in fact know what happened to the newsmen, it is pointless to go on demanding information from the Indonesians which they cannot or are unwilling to provide," then British ambassador Sir John Ford said.

Advertisement:
"Since no protests will produce the journalists' bodies, I think we should ourselves avoid representations about them.
"They were in the war zone of their own choice."

By the time East Timor regained independence in 1999, an estimated 200,000 people had been killed during the Indonesian occupation.

The British government communiques showed a deliberate policy to play down Indonesian atrocities while chairing the United Nations Security Council.

"Timor was high on (US Secretary of State) Henry Kissinger's list of places where the US do not want to comment or get involved," Mr Ford wrote in a communique in late 1975.

"I am sure we should continue to follow the American example.

"Once the Indonesians had established themselves in Dili, they went on a rampage of looting and killing.

"If asked to comment on any stories of atrocities I suggest we say that we have no information."

The families of the Balibo Five are pushing to have more Foreign Office documents released for the Australian inquiry.

Liberal Democrat MP Don Foster will table parliamentary questions next week to try to discover the extent of British government knowledge of the fate of the Balibo Five.

"There is clear evidence that the British government was complicit in a cover-up of the facts of the death of British journalists," Mr Foster said.

Posted by: Borg at November 30, 2005 8:13 AM

Dear "Lord" Lucan and "Doctor" Pepper:

You have been asked by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald to lay off the political crap. If you can't, I cordially invite you to please visit

www.freerepublic.com

and lie about Liberals, Liberalisms, Multiculturalism, Leftists, and Political Correctness there to your hearts content.

If you can't refrain from lying while you are here I may be forced to straighten you out (with words of course.)

***********************************************

Quoth the article: There are no traces of her radical husband who is believed to have organized her trip.

He's probably moved on to wife number two... maybe he was already married to her before. Heck, he might have five or six wives. You know it's tough for a poor, oppressed Perfect Muslim to work in the decadent, racist West. Especially with the shirt to the ankles, hat without brim that's never taken off, and foot-long beard. So why not follow Mohammed's example and find some idiot tramps to "keep" him?

So he just gets himself three or four stupid Eurosluts to take care of him. If he convinces one of them to kill herself for Allah, then he probably gets a nice bonus from some Saudi benefactor.

******************************************

Hugh, speaking of suicidal Irish idiot women, remember the case of the lass that married herself a poor, misunderstood, oppressed-by-Zionist "palestinian"? Later, he sent her home on El-Al. As she went through security, an El-Al employee thought that she was suspicious. He asked her whether she had packed her own luggage. She said that her precious hubby had packed one bag for her. The agent searched it and found... a bomb with a timer set to detonate the bomb while the flight was in mid-air.

The woman was actually pregnant with devoted hubby's baby... and he hated the Jews soooo much that he was willing to murder his pregnant wife and unborn child.

Of course, that is not as bad as the most-likely alternative: that he never loved the ditz at all, and only pretended to in order to carry out his plan to strike El-Al. The pregnancy was only meant to delude her even further.

Anyway, this is the reason why everyone is now asked whether they packed their own luggage.

This is why I say that there is nothing--and I mean NOTHING--stupider than a soft heart. A "bleeding heart" is okay, feel sorry for people that deserve your pity. But don't let yourself get fool by grifting conmen and human sharks.

Just see the recent case of the woman that "fell in love" with a convicted ROBBERER. Then she MARRIED HIM. Then she busted him free from a transportation detail and MURDERED a prison guard for him. Why? For "love."

LOL... recall that they were turned in by a cabbie that drove them somewhere. They were pretending to be en route to an Amway convention... the cabbie said that he knew something was up because they didn't try to suck him in to the Amway cult. LOL...he happened to hear on the radio that a black gentleman in the company of a white women were fugitives from the law. He drove home and called the police, and they found the happy newlyweds in the same hotel where the cabbie left them...LOL. What a couple of idiots. Her especially.

There's nothing dumber than a woman in love... she'll put up with her husband beating her, raping her, molesting her kids. She'll blame herself and suffer every humiliation to "stand by her man." He can flirt with her sisters, fool around on her, have affairs with her friends... and the dunce in love will stay and stay. But I digress.

Posted by: kj at November 30, 2005 8:15 AM

OT
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17420499-401,00.html

Malaysia's minister says foreigners who do not like the way they are treated by the police should leave.
.
.
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The police routinely rob chinese workers according to reports and do they get reprimanded. No.

Posted by: Borg at November 30, 2005 8:18 AM

kj~ looks like you will need to write to Orianna Fallaci next. She just stated all kinds of lies about 'Liberals, Liberalisms, Multiculturalism, Leftists, and Political Correctness.'

Posted by: Gary at November 30, 2005 8:28 AM

Further to Jonathan's post regarding the psychology of Muslim suicide bombers and Japanese kamikaze pilots during World War II.

He states, inter alia:

"What they both have in common is a misguided sense of "honor killing" for the sake of their divine emperor/bloodthirsty Allah, who hates outsiders/infidels and desires innocent ones to be blown up for the purification of the nation/ Islamic religion."

Jonathan refers to the hatred of outsiders and infidels shared by the suicide bombers and the suicide zero pilots.

I consider this to be of great importance in attempting to understand the mohammedans and to predict the scope and scale of their likely future predations.

I believe that the common link between the Allah worshippers and the Emperor worshippers is this:

Both are essentially ideologies that hold that those who are not members of the group are inferior; so much so that they are effectively subhuman.

A recent example illustrating the prevalent mindset comes from close advisor to Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Ayatollah Ahmad Jannatiin when he described non-Muslims as "sinful animals who roam the earth and engage in corruption" (Dhimmi Watch; 24 November).

Any regular visitor to this site (or MEMRI) knows
that there are many other examples to choose from.

It is this ideology that is behind some of the most henious acts of the twentieth century.

This ideology resulted in the treatment meted out by the Japanese army to the peoples of China and Korea in particular, as well as the treatment afforded prisoners captured by the Japanese in WWII.

This ideology was behind the attempted destruction of European Jewry (and the disabled, homosexuals, gypsies etc.) by the Nazis.

When the people who stand in your way are not real "people" at all but merely subhuman animals and filth, no measure is beyond the pale in achieving the aim of what Jonathon describes as the "purification" of the nation/ummah.

Such an ideology is held by some 1 billion persons worldwide. The fact that our so called "leaders" continue to refuse to acknowledge the basic tenets of such a belief system, points to a worrying future indeed.

Posted by: Anthony at November 30, 2005 9:15 AM

Gary:

As KJ points out, Spencer wrote rather eloquently only the other day about getting away from the right-left paradigm because it really doesn't work very well, either in terms of describing political views or in addressing the perilous world we live in today. If anything, the majority of people here could fairly be described as Ali Sina describes himself -- an independent centerist. Where opinions differ among the anti-jihaddists is over whether to take an interventionist or isolationist approach.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 30, 2005 9:17 AM

Morgane:

Kudos and thanks for the laugh.

Hope your well done ditty reaches her "letter to the editor" editor.

My "Mary Worth" like comment:

When women and motherhood in the West are devalued, either as sex objects, or denial of family values, we tend to have a proselytization problem.

Value yourselves and your children.

Posted by: dgene at November 30, 2005 9:29 AM

There needs to be more on this site about converts and the unique risks they pose. (Hugh, care to take it on?)

For example, can converts be "moderate muslims"? We all know (well, at least I do - personally) of "muslims" who ID as muslims, but do the "western thing" and only attend mosques at weddings, funerals and the odd holy day. A muslim-by-birth can get away with this, but a convert? Can a convert really have such a blase attitude towards the tenets of Islam? It seems difficult to believe that one would go to the trouble of converting and then be apathetic about the whole thing.

Now, a conversion doesn't automatically mean that such a person becomes suicide bomber material. Maybe his conversion was simply an "escape" from the perceived (and, sorry, liberal induced) meangingless of modern life, which, by joining a group who knows and believes in who they are, with a bit of prayer here, a bit of fasting and a religious feast there, he alleviates.

But nevertheless, it would seem rather common sense to except that a convert would be a much higher chance of turning radical than a oh-yeah-I-was-born-Muslim-but-you-know Muslim IDer.

You've also got the prison converts, for whom Islam, with it's glorification of violence (no need to repent your violence - just redirect it!), is a perfect fit. These types would probably be a bit too street smart to fall for you-go-first suicide bombing rhetoric, but again the proportion that do radicalize would likely be higher than a Muslim IDer's, not to mention the likely continuation of their violent ways anyway - which now come with religious backing.

Posted by: spect8or at November 30, 2005 10:06 AM

"Maybe his conversion was simply an "escape" from the perceived (and, sorry, liberal induced) meangingless of modern life"

Ennui, taedium vitae, manic depression and other symptoms of existentialist neurosis are not the only things that the Leftist worldview adds to the mix to explain these conversions.

More importantly, the Leftist worldview adds a contempt for the West, contempt for America, and contempt for Judaeo-Christian culture. So the Western who converts to Islam is also seeking escape from the evil, stifling, corrupt, decadent West itself -- and to those prone to suicide-bomb, the hatred of the West has over time mushroomed cancerously in the soul as a more amorphous and general misanthropy and nihilist hatred of life itself.

And perhaps a self-hatred contributes as well -- the only way to quench the guilt and shame of being Western is to kill the Western self, mass-murder some who are evil collaborators of the West, and through this suicidal-homicidal fire find, through a purifying metamorphosis a new, eternal, non-Western identity in Paradise.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 30, 2005 11:23 AM

Regarding kj's story about El Al and the Irish lass, it's wrong on a few key particulars. She did pack her own bags. What led to the more thorough search of her bags were the "chatty" questions that the El Al ticket agent asked the girl. The El Al agent profiled her, recognizing that it's unusual for good Catholic Irish girls to have boyfriends in the Arab territories. Further questioning increased her suspicion, until the agent had the lass pulled aside. She bragged about the radio her boyfriend had given her, and that led to its careful examination. El Al is run by security professionals. Richard Reid was similarly profiled, and when he flew out of Israel he was seated in the very back row with the Israeli equivalent of an air marshall beside him. Even the French denied him a seat the first time he tried to fly back to Britain.

Posted by: longtime lurker at November 30, 2005 2:29 PM

The psychology of converts to Islam should be divided into male and female, since the two sexes have some fundamentally different psychological outlooks; not entirely of course.
As to women, I don't pretend to know much, but I recommend Marianne Alireza's book, called, I think: At the Drop of a Veil. She was one of the first American women converts, marrying a Saudi prince back in the late forties. Eventually, she left him [and Islam, I presume] and came back to the USA. Her book is also interesting for its vignettes of life among the Saudi royals in those, when one of the future kings was still a high-living, hard-drinking prince [was this Fahd or Faisal?].
I also knew an American woman of Scotch-Irish background who married a Pakistani and came back to the USA detesting Muslims.

Now about male converts, without generalizing about all of them, I feel that many are happy to find a milieu that gives them both approval and an outlet for the sadistic and psychopathological or sociopathic urges that they already had. It seems to also give them a sense of self-esteem that they may not have had before. Now they can be self-respecting mass murderers with a holy mission. This is probably a main reason why many prisoners go for Islam.

Posted by: Eliyahu at November 30, 2005 2:38 PM