Foxy: You have explained the rationale for The War
In Iraq, which many have failed to see it's
geo-political context. Thank you.

Posted by: learjet0450 at December 13, 2005 8:03 AM

It is ironic to have this bigoted sabre rattling by moronic, Dark Age barbarism worshipping fools who find a sadistic God of value because a violent paedophilic dictator said so, when you see how western policians wax pc anout reactionary Islam to such a nauseating degree.

Do they simply think that he is kidding?

Do they really think that it like all of the vociferous threats uttered by brainwashed fanatics constantly and often in frontof western media. means nothing?

One day the west will wake up and act and the unfortunate thing is that those Muslims who say that they are good and who probably are, will be found guilty by association and failure to control their reactionary brethren as when and if it does occur, just like in their terrorist attacks, it wont matter if anyone is innocent as failure to attempt to prevent such crimes is akin to abetting them and by then Christian tolerance will have been swept out of the door and we wont really care anymore as Hammurabi's code will be re-activated.

I have always been against death penalties as I firmly believed that you cannot trust politicians and the controlling hierarchies with such a useful weapon to decrease opposition noise.
But I may make an exception for reactionary Muslims as after all, it is western civilisation that is in grave danger here.

Posted by: Zathras at December 13, 2005 8:17 AM

I was watching a repeat of a lecture Victor Davis Hanson gave a few weeks back, televised on C-SPAN. In response to a question on multilateralism he spoke about how uni/multilateralism have no inherent value of "good" or "bad" but are simply techniques. That a number of "bad" people can multilaterally attack a "good" victim, a "good" regime can unilaterally confront a "bad", or any variety. It's a description of technique, not of a value of action.
He went on to say how in todays world those terms have in fact been infused with values, that only multilateral action could possibly be good, etc.

It would then seem to me that, viewed this way, the bleating of the spent,the blind, the stupid,those without principle, and the morally dishonest can be seen for what it is, dismissed, and correct actions can be undertaken.

Posted by: t-ham at December 13, 2005 10:09 AM

December 13, 2005
DOES THIS PICTURE REMIND YOU OF ANY THING??
http://www.mosnews.com/column/2005/12/08/muslims.shtml

http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Thinking of Tampa and the trial there what if the Juroirs were not stupid but threatened and their Familys were threatened??

http://www.acage.org/articles/?id=0117#comments
The School that Terrorism Built | 12.06.2005
In July of 2003, the Islamic Academy of Florida (IAF), an elementary/secondary private school for Muslims based in the Temple Terrace suburb of Tampa Bay, was suspended from receiving taxpayer funded tuition vouchers. The voucher program is a statewide government initiative that was devised to help underprivileged students in underachieving schools get a better education. Up until that point, the school had received more than $350,000 in vouchers, the majority of which came from Florida PRIDE, an organization that funds scholarships. After further investigation, the school was cut off completely from the voucher program.

The reason the school was cut off from the money was simple. IAF was named, in a 50-count indictment, as having been a part of the “PIJ Enterprise.” PIJ is short for Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a 26-year-old terrorist organization connected to the Muslim Brotherhood that targets Israeli civilians and others with murder, using young Arabs as human bombs (martyrs). According to the indictment, IAF and other organizations were actively used as “the North American base of support for the PIJ and to raise funds and provide support for the PIJ and their operatives in the Middle East, in order to assist its engagement in, and promotion of, violent attacks designed to thwart the Middle East Peace Process.”

IAF’s former Chairman, Sami Al-Arian, was the ringleader of the enterprise;

MAYBE THIS POINT OF VIEW NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT??

At least today some of the people who have lost loved ones by this gang the crypts have a little retribution!! Will not bring back their love ones by this monster and his gang he started but it is part of the closure and he can never harm another Human!!

Guess the Gov. of Calf is not a Girli-man or just a show-man!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

PS
Israel should boom every sorce of money in Iran yes that is every oilfeild really hurt them I mean if no oil no money no food??

After all we just saw 5 towns flatened in Iran by Earthquake just this mo????

Fly high!!

Posted by: Catherine at December 13, 2005 10:18 AM

The only language these aggressive religious fanatics understand is the language of war.

They think they are the only ones who can be aggressive.

It is high time to declare an all out war on Islam.

Posted by: rocky at December 13, 2005 10:30 AM

When I look at the leadership of the Islamic Republic of Iran, I see the future of the world.

Immature clowns at the helm. Brainwashed minds made half-blind squinting quizziclally into the future, wondering what Mohammed would do.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 13, 2005 10:52 AM

Catherine:

Thanks for the URL that reminds us of who the suicide bombers awaiting their 72 virgins closely resemble. The big difference being the hooded KKK types didn't blow themselves up too... ...at least not intentionally.

Here's one for you of who the Iranian PM most closely resembles:

http://www.israellycool.com/blog/_archives/2005/12/8/1441619.html

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 13, 2005 11:19 AM

I was just wondering why this site hasn't yet had coverage of the patriotic anti-muslim riots in Australia. It's about damn time westerners started directing some anger at the traitorous towel heads. Its all over the news, why hasn't it been picked up here yet?

Posted by: templar at December 13, 2005 11:20 AM

And, um BTW... ...wasn't Rafsanjani supposed to be some kind of moderate?

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 13, 2005 11:25 AM

templar:
Look at Dhimmiwatch. Coverage there since yesterday.

Since the Iranian nuclear sites are dispersed and fortified, and we don't have nuclear tipped bunker busters (thanks Dems!) I'd think that
we (or the Israelis) would have to destroy all
roads leading to these sites, and most of the
above ground infrastructure. What this means is
a fairly comprehensive destruction of Iran.

Israel has the rockets (not tested in combat,
who knows the accuracy, etc., etc.) and supposedly several hundred nuclear bombs, of
undetermined potency. It would be a shame if Israel were forced to have to do it, but if they
did I have to say I'd join the most ridiculously
pro-Israel group I could find and fly their
flag on my car.

If the US has to do it, I sure hope we can rig
a nuclear bunker buster together quickly, and spare the tens of millions of Iranians who'd
perish in an above ground attack.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 11:35 AM

Rocky- you said it. the whole world should unite and fight this pestelence called Islam, otherwise,the whole world will end up in destruction.See now what is happening in Australia(after France)!. One thing I don't understand with these islamic riot effected countries-The leaders are so pasive and most of the time ,desperatly let down their own people.In Australia ,during the recent riots,when the local citizens of 6000 strong protest the barbarious behaviour of these hooligans ,who objected to the swimming costume of the two life guards on a beach ,and manhandled them.. (Do you expect life guards to wear purda)! There was a blood bath on the beach.. Who are they to teach the Australian women what dress they have to wear for a beach? It is their culture and their country.The Australian Government poorly let down their own people. In that respect, I commend the attitude of the Israilies. Though tiny, and situated in the midst of enemy Islamists,they know how to assert and protect themselves. Their brain power surpases all the one billion islamists brains!. Isreal will survive at anycost, and it is better the West and Australia get some survival notes from it. So it is not Isreal's, -but the Islamist's days are numbered.

Posted by: rafia at December 13, 2005 11:37 AM

New material:

NRO has two good articles today:

Whahhabism
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/shea200512130826.asp

Jihad
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins200512130829.asp

(will repost these again tomorrow)

Posted by: Gary at December 13, 2005 11:47 AM

"Israel has the rockets (not tested in combat,
who knows the accuracy)..."
-- posted by American

The cruise missile platform in the IDF's arsenal, dubbed the Gabriel, which is essentially a re-badge of the USAF's premier such vehicle.

The avionics and targeting subsystems are of the highest test, I know that the Gabriel is outfitted with Honeywell avionics, and that's the best.

Whatever the IDF aims at, it's gonna hit dead-on.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 13, 2005 12:30 PM

foxy....
for years muslims have come into our countries, fomented violence and terrorism, attempted to kill innocent civilians, threatened our democracies. The citizens of great countries have every right to expel, even if by force, such a cancer. If the governments are too corupt or stupid to do so, people must act.

Posted by: templar at December 13, 2005 12:33 PM

Believing we can "beat" Islam at the ballot box is a secular fantasy with no basis in reality.

No war was ever won by "voting."

Islam has only ever been "pushed back" - never defeated. Islam has never been pushed back except with massive bloodshed. It is the only method of "peace" Islam understands.

If we fall for the secular idea that sophisticated words and non-vilent weapons (voting) can win a war, then we might as well all get together, hold hands, and sing kumbaya. It will have as much effect.

Muslims murder children and justify it. How can you "vote" and win against murderers?

If voting was ever powerful enough to beat murderers, don't you think by now we would have voted out murder in America? Voted out rape? Voted out theft?

Only the deluded secularists in America think we can impress Islam with our somber-sounding pseudo-intellectualism and avert bloodshed by how painfully multi-cultural and diverse we are. Silly.

Posted by: Mussolini at December 13, 2005 12:45 PM

"...wasn't Rafsanjani supposed to be some kind of moderate?"
-- posted by waterdragon52

Did you say Moderate Moslem?

Last I picked up the unicorn trail was on the Dennis Prager show. Dennis was droning on about how he's fluent in Arabic and has a fine background running interfaith extravanganzas between Jews and Moslems, and simply can NOT understand what is going on today.

PORK FOR MOSLEMS PORK FOR MOSLEMS PORK FOR MOSLEMS PORK FOR MOSLEMS

I predict that when a Moderate Moslem is finally identified, he'll be discovered under a wet rock, right along a nest of silverfish. The experts from Harvard and Georgtown will be flown in to examine him.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 13, 2005 1:01 PM

I love it!

Seriously, isn’t it just the best when the Iranians spout off with their anti-Israeli sentiments? It just goes to prove how fouled up Islamic societies are and how barbaric and violent they are for having followed and implemented the ‘Religion of Peace’ in their systems.

In truth, they don’t want Israel wiped off the map because as long as the Jewish state is in their midst they have ample reasons (though not entirely well thought-out reasons, mind you) to gripe, moan, complain, and rattle their sabers about how unfairly they’re being treated by non-Muslims. Take that away and they’d find something else to have grievances with, but Israel is truly the perfect little whipping boy for them.

Israel’s tough. They’re much more coordinated and stronger than the loosely-formed armies or soldiers from the Islamic countries who wish them harm. As we’ve seen before, the army they were fighting with for nearly a decade was great at lying down in the field of battle and asking to be captured. Whoa! What strength!

Give them hell, Israel –you’re going nowhere while Iran’s going away. Far, far away.

Bye, bye Iran. You won’t be missed.

Posted by: illustr8rg8r at December 13, 2005 1:04 PM

Alarmed Pig Farmer writes:
"The cruise missile platform in the IDF's arsenal, dubbed the Gabriel, which is essentially a re-badge of the USAF's premier such vehicle."

The Gabriel is a ship killing missile, the first three versions being fairly short range rockets, and the last one being a (jet powered) cruise missile of about 200km range. That doesn't buy that much, given where they'll have to hit, assuming they use the Gabriels. And, as has been mentioned, numerous targets, buried deep underground.

Regardless, this is getting nerdly (not that I mind) and more detailed than most people want to know. Let's just hope some country does it!

While it is unfortunate that largely racist mobs are the ones physically fighting back, I'm with templar and others who will applaud them. Perhaps they can be made to understand that it isn't the
black African Christian, or the Asian Buddhist or
Indian Hindu who should be the target of their ire? From what I've read, the BNP is exorcising
it's racists and becoming more respectable. Any
Brits know different?

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 1:11 PM

Iran can say whatever it wants. There are realities and there are realities. Guess who has Iran's nuke program all scoped out?

Nope, it ain't Santa Claus who came to town!

Be of good cheer -- there will be plenty of hunting next year.

Posted by: witness at December 13, 2005 1:33 PM

"... yet you can openly call for race war and street violence against muslims and get away with it."
-- posted by foxy

Great, another one.

So, it's ok for the Moslems to incessantly call for violence against infidels; and it's outragerous for infidels to discuss necessary defense. And it's cute how you worked the race card into the confused statement.

You need to don a burkha, foxy. You may even be able to attract a virile Moslem Male for whom you'd stack the discourse deck.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 13, 2005 1:36 PM

the BNP is exorcising it's racists and becoming more respectable. Any Brits know different?

No, the wolf is just putting on some sheep's clothing. The BNP is a hateful white supremacist party, whose present purposes it serves to stir up hatred against Muslims on the part of Hindus and Sikhs. Of course, in doing so, the BNP have made some legitimate criticisms of Islam, many of which people posting here would agree with. However, their motivation for doing so is racist. In the long term, Hindus, Sikhs and Jews have every bit as much to fear from a fascist party like the BNP as Muslims do. Yvonne Ridley, being white, has less to fear.

This point has been made many times on this site, especially by Granny Weatherwax. Islam is an ideology, not a race, or even, in my opinion, a religion.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 1:53 PM

I can only offer one thought in regards to groups like the BNP in this war:

Strange Bedfellows.

Posted by: Gary at December 13, 2005 2:08 PM

foxy...
of course I am very weary of the airhead liberal left. But, save Tancredo and a few, Republicans are unwilling to name the enemy as well. Bush's realationship with the Saudi royal family is troubling. I know that the left is worse, but, I believe that Bush is too intimate with the worlds leading financiers of jihad. I believe that real change will come form the grassroots (ie me and you), and maybe, this website can further real change. I don't know if we need a political action group, or a militia group, or maybe a combination of the two, but we must make our will known.

A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.....Margret Meade
we WILL defend our homeland
we WILL be heard

Posted by: templar at December 13, 2005 2:13 PM

witness said:Be of good cheer -- there will be plenty of hunting next year.
Brother, I hope and pray that you are right.

Posted by: templar at December 13, 2005 2:20 PM

Strange Bedfellows

You need a long spoon if you get into bed with Nick Griffin. If only to take your mind off things.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 2:24 PM

"...wasn't Rafsanjani supposed to be some kind of moderate?"
-- posted by waterdragon52

Did you say Moderate Moslem?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer

APF:

I was making a joke. Rafsanjani was positioned as being more "moderate" than the current Thug-in-Chief.

Today's Times On-Line had an interesting discourse on the notion of "moderate" Muslims in the context of the UK Task Force that formed after 7/7 under the banner "Preventing Extremism Together". Dean Godson, Research Director of Policy Exchange observed that the "moderation" is more a matter of methodology rather than ideology and the likeliest outcome of the recommendations, if adopted, is to create a parallel Islamic society in the UK rather than promote assimilation:

I've already referred this to Spencer, but in case he doesn't post it:

You'll Never Guess Who's to Blame for 7/7:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1922518,00.html

American: re mention of the BNP and banning... ...yes, you do run that risk, and with good reason. Write that Britain's only option is to either vote BNP or face "colour wars" or remarks of that nature will most certainly get you banned if brought to Spencer's attention. Bigotry and racism isn't welcome here.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 13, 2005 2:30 PM

I have to agree with american and foxy in order to reverse the Islamification of Europe a strong nationalist movement needs to develop. I have researched the BNP and although I see repeated reference to their Nazi origins I see nothing in their current manifesto or litreture which would believe me to think this way (although some of their economic proposals are a little quirky). Infact it is telling that the organisations claiming that the BNP is a fascist white supremacist party are communist/liberal organisations.

The BNP appears to me to be a democratically formed party that uses nationalism based on traditional British values as its main political doctrine. Membership to the party requires a several year probationary period to rule out those who might have more sinister reasons for joining the BNP. They are the only party in the UK that is at present highlighting the dangers of islamofascism.

What is most telling about the politcal situation in the UK is that the chairman Nick Griffin and another BNP member are being tried for inciting racial hatred just for predicting a homegrown islamic attack a year or so before 7/7. This prosecution was instigated by the BBC 'Al-beeb" and the another leftwing organisation I think they were called searchlight.

Maybe those on this site whos are so knee jerk anti BNP have a suggestions as to what a suitable alternative would be in the UK. The major parties have sacrificed themselves on the alter of multiculturalism and are accepting their dhimmitude without a whimper of protest.

I see no alternative for those in the UK who wish to resist the tide of islamification. I look forward to the responses of those who believe me to be wrong, I would be happy to give my vote to another party who would be as effective as the BNP. I hope that the principles of free speach will allow me to continue this topic of conversation without being banned, JW is a great site that brings together many people who have realised the dangers of the RoP.

Posted by: km at December 13, 2005 2:37 PM

My dear incapable of reading colleagues.

I'm not a racist. I'd much rather all of my kids married "black as the ace of spades" non muslims than "white as the driven snow" muslims. I hope that's clear now, if not, don't bother replying!

I've read that the BNP is now changing it's spots.
I'll try to dig up the links. If all you can offer is hearsay, or snide remarks, don't bother. If
you can prove that it's all a ruse, then I'm
interested in reading. I don't care for white
(or black) supremacists, or antisemites, or the like. But, people (and parties) can change. If the
mainstream parties don't confront the threat, then
the hell with them. I'm not British though, and I don't have my ear to the ground there. That is why I ask.

If you don't think change is possible, and that
the party must be forever tarred by its initial
founding, well, you need to be familiar with institutions that many hold dear today.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 2:51 PM

Focusing on the post at hand, it is high time that people seriously consider the utility of preemptive strikes against Iran. This is going to require not only Israel, but US and British support. We have enginered the geo-political climate to our advantage in terms of hardware and boots on the ground, lets not squander this opportunity. To all those reading this website take the opportunity to engage appeasists who wish our withdrawl from Iraq/Afganistan, I know it is difficult with people who have lost touch with rational thought, but this is what is required on the home front.

We should not let this opportunity pass by, for however horrible the consequences of war with Iran seem, to do nothing and pull back will only lead to bigger problems down the road

Also nice post american, I agree with all that you say, it is this type of objective thinking that will see us through these dark times. It is sad that people have labled you a racist, you certainly dont sound like one to me. I look forward to reading more posts from you in the future

Posted by: km at December 13, 2005 3:26 PM

It is time that the West take these barbarians seriously. The threat in Iran needs to eliminated. Now. By eliminating the threat, the West becomes a target of Islamic aggression. By not eliminating the threat, the West remains a target of Islamic agression.

Obviously, if you're tuned into web sites such as this, and Jihadwatch.com, then you're familiar with the threat that is looming on our shores. We must ban together with Israel, and eliminate governments like Iran, and their nuclear threat before it's too late.

God Bless the U.S.A.

Posted by: Code4Code6 at December 13, 2005 3:53 PM

"ISLAM IS A PEACEFUL RELIGION"

Am I missing something?

Posted by: Code4Code6 at December 13, 2005 3:57 PM

I agree with km, we should not let this opportunity pass by to strike at Iran and eliminate once and for all time the nuclear threat to the West & Israel.
We (US,UK & Israel), have the know how, the ability and the hardware necessary to destroy all the sites in Iran. Though at first there will be a hue & cry by the usual suspects, about aggression etc. The world will be a safer place and many countries secretly would be happy for the elimination of this threat.

Posted by: faqi at December 13, 2005 4:25 PM

"The Gabriel is a ship killing missile, the first three versions being fairly short range rockets, and the last one being a (jet powered) cruise missile of about 200km range."
-- posted by American

You mean to tell me that Israel is stuck with a lousy 200K strike range, and that their missile platform is not designed for attacking geography?

That is troubling. And, given that George and Condi behave like closet antisemites, one can't look for the Pentagon to fix this deficiency anytime soon.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 13, 2005 4:30 PM

Yes, and this site will alienate any non-white readers. Is that what you want?

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 4:42 PM

Alarmed Pig Farmer writes:
"You mean to tell me that Israel is stuck with a lousy 200K strike range, and that their missile platform is not designed for attacking geography?"

No, simply that the Gabriel, if it were launched from an aircraft, would only extend the range of the aircraft by 400km (approx, assuming a nonsuicidal mission where the aircraft returns). That doesn't take into account the fact that strapping a Gabriel cruise missile on a plane changes what the plane can do. They were designed for antiship missions. And the Russians are supplying Iran with better surface to air missile
capability. So I think that the chance that they'd
use Gabriels is pretty low. Nothing is unthinkable, of course.

Israel has the Jericho and Shavit missiles, which are more what you are thinking about, medium range ballistic missiles capable of hitting Iran. But
it won't be a precision strike.

I don't see why Israel should have to do this though. We could probably destroy one of those
sites as a demo.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 4:49 PM

Okay, having checked out the BNP's own web page,
I can say that they have quite a ways to go to be
the party I wish they were. Still a pretty strong
whiff of racism to me. When I find the links with
the article I read I'll be sure to look more
closely, as I'm completely unconvinced now.

The reason I was suspicious of some of the charges was that other groups, like Pim Fortuyn's party
in the Nethrlands, were also called racist, etc. etc. Anyone could see Fortuyn wasn't a racist reactionary, as he was a pretty flamboyant fag.
He was also a Dutch patriot, and the Netherlands
could sorely use another Pim Fortuyn. So could
the UK!

You British need to either fix the BNP, the
Tories, or create a new party. I doubt Labor
can be fixed.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 5:06 PM

"Yes, and this site will alienate any non-white readers. Is that what you want?"

From Interested

This may seem obvious but why wouldnt a name like Jihad watch deter non white readers.

Your response does not get to the issue of how we deal with Jihadism at a national/international level. If non-white readers have the clarity of thought to read this website, then surely they can approach the policies of the BNP with a similar objectivity.

Knee jerk reactions are what limit our responses in dealing with this threat, I have yet to see any evidence for the accusations levied against the BNP. We need to be calculated in assesing who will be of benefit in the battle against Islam. Israel has staunchly nationalistic parties, but I dont see anyone bashing them with accusations of fascism or racism.

Posted by: km at December 13, 2005 5:07 PM

Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent. While we welcome contact and co-operation with nationalists and patriots of other races, and with the many non-whites who also oppose enforced multi-racialism, we ask them to respect our right to an organisation of our own, for our own, as we respect and applaud their measures to organise themselves in like fashion.

From the link on the front page of the BNP website, first paragraph after clicking the button labeled "join". I'll spell this out as simply as I can. IT MEANS THAT ONLY WHITE PEOPLE CAN JOIN !!!!
They have a chairman who I have seen hold up his arm, point to the white skin of his wrist and claim "This is what defines me"

If you want evidence for the accusations levied against the BNP then I'll take you on a Friday or Saturday night to certain pubs and clubs, or certain sports venues, you can see the men giving out the literature and LISTEN TO THEM. Then try to deny that they are racist.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 13, 2005 5:21 PM

American - I never thought for one minute that you were racist. I'm pleased that you have got the measure of the BNP, but I'm concerned that other Americans posting here have not. Any Britons posting here should know better.

This may seem obvious but why wouldnt a name like Jihad watch deter non white readers.

There is no reason at all why a name like Jihad Watch should deter non-white readers. Black Africans in Darfur are victims of jihad, are they not?

At the risk of repeating myself, Islam is not a race; it is an ideology.

Colour is a red herring, you might say.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 5:21 PM

I guess I should have done the surfing myself, because it was fairly obvious from reading their
own web page.

Any Americans who think these guys are just misunderstood British nationalists should
check out that page. Google takes you there.
Don't trust me or anyone else, just read
what they say.

Granny, I'll take you up on it if I ever visit the UK. But can't we do something more upscale? I believe you now. No need to rub my face in it!

Don't you have any sane nationalists there?

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 5:46 PM

Is Iran trying to talk Israel into having an ironclad justification for using nuclear weapons when they strike Iran?

Muslim tactical thinking needs work, excluding the "die for Allah" part.

Posted by: Beagle at December 13, 2005 5:47 PM

Well that is disapointing from the only party that has even raised the issue of Islamofascism in the UK.

However I have yet to see a viable alternative to what is essentially a rapidly growing problem for non-islamic Britons or Europeans. Maybe all is lost for the UK.

Posted by: km at December 13, 2005 5:51 PM

Hi American
If you ever visit in circumstances where we could meet there are indeed lots of nice pubs where we could take you to celebrate. Aren't there, Interested?

Nationalism, decent nationalism, is undergoing something of a revival (the BNP have been shrewd to seize the opportunity)lately. Our new and black Archbishop of York has expressed his surprise that we don't celebrate more and have allowed proper pride in Englishness to lapse for fear of sounding racist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/features/york/profile.shtml

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 13, 2005 5:59 PM

there are indeed lots of nice pubs where we could take you to celebrate. Aren't there, Interested?

Indeed. I can think of at least 1,582 within the M25 area. But the best are near where I live. If it's Summer, The Spaniards. If it's Winter, The Flask. If you want pub theatre, The Gate House. Drinks on me. Cheers!

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 6:05 PM

when nick griffin points to his wrist and states that this is what defines me, then he is correct, it is a fact! you have twisted his words, he is proud of his celtic, anglo briton heritage....and you tell me that that is racist?

Yes.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 6:07 PM

foxy writes:
"mass immigration, not seen on a scale in the history of mankind is effectively destroying western culture, dont give me this assimilation lie, there are too many to assimilate, the UK has an open door policy when it comes to immigration. to say this i am deemed to be racist?"

Nope.

" i disagree with a lot of right wing theories and some idealogy. yes ethinic minorites can live in the UK, but as citizens? no, not unless they have earned it."

But that does the trick.

To avoid the call, you could have said that no one at all (even european whites) should be allowed to live in the UK unless they deserve it. But somehow I think that's not what you mean, is it? Which would you have more problems with, a pure white British native born who converts to islam, or a
Black Anglican? For me, that's a no-brainer.

I can certainly understand the difference between supporting a very strict immigration policy and being racist, but you sound like one of those
"blood" nationalists. I'm willing to go some ways
in accepting people of different politics than mine, in either direction, but the BNP is quite a
bit too far.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 6:18 PM

If there is one thing that my Ancient British/Celtic/Anglo Saxon/English/Anglican and married to a Yorkshire Viking heritage has given me is to recognise that Dr Martin Luther King was right when he said that a man should be judged by the content of his character and not the colour of his skin.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 13, 2005 6:18 PM

Dr Martin Luther King was right when he said that a man should be judged by the content of his character and not the colour of his skin.

Queen Woadicea would be proud of you.

Martin Luther King would probably have said "color", not "colour", but we should let him off, as he was not only a Good Thing but a Good King.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 6:28 PM

There's quite a few pubs around called The British Queen. Although I think I am a Trinovante rather than an Iceni.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 13, 2005 6:34 PM

Interested,

"Yes."

Don't weigh us down with too much justification for your labeling someone else a racist. I like the threadbare argumentation.

Posted by: Beagle at December 13, 2005 6:49 PM

I like the threadbare argumentation.

Good.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 6:54 PM

i would like to see an implementation of japanese style culture (if thats possible) in the UK.

Sushi? Environmentally friendly toilets that pretend to flush to cover up an embarassing noise? "Intelligent toilets" that tell you when and how to re-stock your fridge? High suicide rates? Young men who never leave their bedroom? Office ladies? Unmarried women past 25 being called "Christmas cakes"? Young women dressing as men to take "salary women" out because their male colleagues haven't a clue?

Just what we need.

Posted by: Interested at December 13, 2005 7:29 PM

Sushi? Environmentally friendly toilets that pretend to flush to cover up an embarassing noise? "Intelligent toilets" that tell you when and how to re-stock your fridge? High suicide rates? Young men who never leave their bedroom? Office ladies? Unmarried women past 25 being called "Christmas cakes"? Young women dressing as men to take "salary women" out because their male colleagues haven't a clue.

Posted by interested.

Interested I think you are taking foxy's comments out of context. She/He is merely trying to state that a stronger sense of national identity needs to be fostered and lax immigration needs to be stopped, i.e use the japanese model.

The UK is sinking under a mass immigration influx and no one is doing anything to stop it except the BNP.

Again it is unfortunate they seem to have made their membership so 'exclusive', but what are the alternatives?

Posted by: km at December 13, 2005 8:09 PM

Interested,

"Good."

Well, you continue to unimpress. I think I'll go look at the BNP website for something beyond grunting.

Posted by: Beagle at December 13, 2005 8:41 PM

foxy writes:
"so tell me, how would you fight islamic jihadism, this is the multiple time that i have asked and no one has an answer?"

Sorry, I haven't seen your previous multiple requests for ideas. Let me hit you up with a few that aren't, by my criteria, racist.

(1) Cease all muslim immigration.
(2) Cease all muslim student visas
(3) Cease all muslim family connection plans,
where they can bring their families .
(4) End welfare for muslims
(5) Support a widespread policy of making islamic
practice the butt of jokes, film, and the
like.Films and drawings of the pedophile
prophet, etc. .
(6) Insist reciprocity. No churches in Saudi?
No mosques in the West.

None of those six that I mentioned are even extreme. But the BNP focuses on race, and blood.
Certainly, the two can be related, but my culture
transcends blood bonds.

Japan is a racist nation. There are people in Japan who are of Korean descent who's families have been there for quite some time, who are
for all intents and purposes "Japanese", but who
aren't really. Is that what you want?

That said, there are a lot of admirable things about the Japanese, and they have every right to
have the immigration policy that they do. I think
most Western countries are FAR too lax about immigration, but the BNP approach is an extreme overreaction. It wasn't Hindus or Sikhs that murdered those Londoners. And it wasn't "Asians"
that rioted a few years back. Asian is the British weasel word for muslim, but it is not very accurate.

Posted by: American at December 13, 2005 8:43 PM

There is no need to grasp at straws ...to rally behind anyone who has spoken out or acted against the jihad, no matter how otherwise morally bereft. Winston Churchill was not a racist, just a man who spoke the truth and inspired others. To hell with nick griffin and his ilk. If there is anything people of all races, religions, and colors can agree on, it's to oppose a viscious cult that hates anyone of any race, creed, or color who is not a muslim.

I'm with seamystic. It's time to start going after the filthy, cowardly imams who issue "fatwas" and order their minions to kill. One for one. They , like the "perfect man" they emulate, are cowards who will seek to save their own skins above all.

Posted by: Infidel33 at December 13, 2005 8:47 PM

I am in agreement with American, Infidel33, Sheik yer'mami and some others here.

I would like to take the liberty of adding to your list American, if I may:

7) No accepting of grants to our institutions (see Harvard & Georgetown getting $40 mil from Saudis) from foreign proven hate mongers

8) ABSOLUTE zero tolerence of any hate speech, violence preaching, etc. from people who are essentially guests. Don't like it here then get the hell out. Now!

9) Our own welcoming commitees for those escaping Islam to help facilitate their escape and liberation. Public exposure of the hipocrisy and hate that is Islam by the people that know best - ex Moslems.

10) Ban all but essential products to or from any country that doesn't get with the program.

I'm sure some of these ideas may be problematic but they should be tried and then fine tuned. These are the civilized ideas (not genocidal).

Without strong forceful action now we are only putting off a cataclysmic tectonic shift.

Lastly, I am disturbed at the quotes and headlines of "Race Riots". MSM getting it all wrong again. Also no mention of the long list of slowly building provocations by the "lebs", "arab looking men", "lebanese-Australians" or whatever you want to call them. Only mentioning of the attack on the lifeguards? It is exactly the inaction to combat those obviously Islamo fascist actions that led to the mini-tectonic shift they now call a race riot. Its not race dummies. I'm sure if there was a higher poulation of blacks or hispanics at those beaches like there is here in US, they would be side by side with their white American or Australian brothers.

Culture/Belief war, not race.

JP

Posted by: JohnnyUno at December 13, 2005 9:48 PM

The problem in NSW was not "Lebanese Arabs", it was muslims. Over half of those "Lebanese Arabs" in NSW are Christians. The church filled with children that was shot at by muslims was a Lebanese Arab church. The saudi-owned and operated MSM will jump through any hoop, will twist any story, will subvert any eye-witness account, to avoid telling the truth.

Posted by: Infidel33 at December 13, 2005 10:11 PM

do you think Iran might also pose threat to Europe, say Rome, the capital for R.Catholics? if their missiles can reach Europe, why are they not concerned? or just plain ignorant of the threat?

Posted by: Lulu at December 13, 2005 10:18 PM

i ding dad when zomeone zays day weesh to gill you, dad you should juz go ahead and gill dem virst...don'd you ding?

Posted by: otterfisher at December 13, 2005 11:12 PM

There were a lot of good points and insights raised in this thread.

Just really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts and seeing how there is hope for a better world......without Islam.

However, I still believe we can negotiate with the Jihadists.

Just hold the Jihadi's left testicle in one hand and the right testicle in the other and ask him to choose. Its amazing how one's attitude changes when given a chnace to free choice.

-Cheers

Posted by: Gorkhali at December 14, 2005 12:23 AM

Do you expect the IDF to actually strike Iranian nuclear targets before the end of March? I have read that Iran's "point of no return" as far as progression of their nuclear program is about 3 months away.

There is no acceptable alternative to a nuclear free Iran. To me this a terrible thing that must be done. It is a sobering and frightening thought.

Posted by: Jim at December 14, 2005 12:50 AM

I really hope that in three months we will see some response from the west. However I am not holding out much hope.

The political will is not there at the moment, I really think we are going to have to wait till the Jihadis pull off another big attack.

Posted by: km at December 14, 2005 1:14 AM

Consider, if Iran actually builds Nuclear weapons why have they done it. Has any country in their area, outside of Iraq which is no longer an issue, threatened them?? NO.

Before the Iranians collaborated with terrorists they didn't even have the US to worry about. They had buffers on all borders from any country that MIGHT have designs on the in the next 50 years.

Of course they HAVE collaborated with the Islamofascists who attacked the US and have provided plenty of aid and comfort to the Islamofascists who are attacking Israel.

In fact they are run by a section of the SAME Islamofascists that have been attacking Jews for known history.

So, when they make those nukes the odds are they will annihilate Israel. The land has no value to them. Killing the JEWS is all the insane fanatics care about. With this in mind you think Israel is not going to try and take out the weapons labs??

Sharon has alledgedly called for a plan using air and SURFACE ASSAULT. Yes, they are planning on going in on the ground so they can penetrate the subsurface facilities and make DAMN sure they do the job right. As they will need help from the US to insure they can hit all 50+ sites they HAVE to hit to finish the job we can pretty much figure the US is going to be fighting our next war with Iran if they don't back down.

Posted by: KuhnKat at December 14, 2005 4:27 AM

LONG LIVE ISRAEL!

short live islam, that self-righteous pedantic garbage!

Posted by: rocky at December 14, 2005 4:41 AM

Again it is unfortunate they seem to have made their membership so 'exclusive', but what are the alternatives?

'Exclusive'? The BNP excludes people who are not white. This is more than merely 'unfortunate', wouldn't you say?

Posted by: Interested at December 14, 2005 6:20 AM

Beagle I know from our previous conversations that you are a thoughtful and experienced man.
I don't know how you have found the BNP website if you have looked at it today. The forum seems to have gone; that was always quite "illuminating". Even new improved BNP makes no bones about being white only. I don't know (but I have the suspicion that it would be unfavourable) what would be the reaction were someone of mixed colour to approach them. I know several (one an in-law of whom I am very fond) people with one white British parent and one black parent, who feel great affinity for their English heritage, who have the same emotional attachment to Stonehenge or Glastonbury as I do, but because of their darker skin tend to be nudged into "black" culture, to their annoyance.
And if you are interested in the more blatant roots of the BNP I have written on the subject on other threads.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 14, 2005 4:21 PM

A soft answer turneth away wrath.

Granny W, you are quite right. Beagle, I too know that you are a thoughtful commenter. Please look into the BNP, and you will see why it makes me angry.

Posted by: Interested at December 14, 2005 6:52 PM

Just hold the Jihadi's left testicle in one hand and the right testicle in the other and ask him to choose. Its amazing how one's attitude changes when given a chnace to free choice.

-Cheers
Posted by: Gorkha

Posted by: Lulu at December 14, 2005 8:13 PM

Just hold the Jihadi's left testicle in one hand and the right testicle in the other and ask him to choose. Its amazing how one's attitude changes when given a chnace to free choice.

-Cheers
Posted by: Gorkhahli

hey you might go against McCain's law of torture for terrorist!

Posted by: Lulu at December 14, 2005 8:17 PM