Our cousins across the pond are slicing their own throats, and it is sad to see what a gutless, dhimmi, pussified government they have over there. The British people deserve much better.

They don't deserve to have to put up with the mud of the earth making threats and blowing up their tube.

Posted by: DCWatson at December 16, 2005 10:29 AM

I don't know how our Gov't attains intelligence about jihadist but I'd like to think it's from monitoring extremists mosques, leading to names and such for further investigations. Shutting them all down would probably just let all the cockroaches go running into the corners where they are much harder to find. Maybe this is the UK policy and why this plan was nixed. Who knows

Posted by: Avatar at December 16, 2005 10:30 AM

A little bird fly over London and said "tweet - tweet!" Another flew over and said "weak - weak"

They both dropped charming little "care-packages" that went splat on someones windshield as the two birds flew away.

Posted by: witness at December 16, 2005 10:33 AM

No, you've got it wrong. Sir Icky says terrorism is because of British foreign policy.

"Our belief is that a major factor in the rise and spread of the current tide of terrorism is rooted in our foreign policy and in the double standards of our Government in its dealings in the Middle East in partnership with the government of the US. We urge you to accept this fact."

So instead of closing these mosques down, we should just ask their Imams what to do.

Posted by: Interested at December 16, 2005 10:44 AM

lol

Posted by: DCWatson at December 16, 2005 10:57 AM

Tough times ahead for our friends across the
pond.

The real problem from my point of view is that
the law abiding citizenry has been disarmed. The
thugs will get guns, and with that they needn't
even be a majority. They'll penetrate the UK
military and police and take over before hitting
that 50%.

I hope someone over here is thinking about what to do when a nuclear armed eurabian nation comes
about.

Posted by: American at December 16, 2005 11:01 AM

risked alienating ordinary Muslims and driving extremism underground

Driving extremism underground is a good first step to solving the problem. Or, you can continue to let Muslims preach for your destruction out in the open.

Bye, UK, nice knowing you. We may or may not join you shortly, so don't wait around for any help.

Posted by: Beagle at December 16, 2005 11:04 AM

Even with all his faults, i'll say it again...
Thank God George Bush is our president.

Posted by: templar at December 16, 2005 11:04 AM

So how does it all go together: it's only a "tiny minority of extremists" who preach hatred and are willing to follow the hateful teachings, right? But closing down extremist mosques will "alienate ordinary Muslims"? So is it a "tiny minority of extremist ordinary Muslims" they are concerned about? Doesn't make sense, unless it is admitted that the "ordinary" Muslims who symphatize with "extremists" are not such a tiny minority afterall.

And why is letting them preach violence and hatred openly and with the help of public subsidies better than "driving them underground"? Should rape, murder and drugs be legalized because the criminalized status of those activities alienates some "ordinary" people engaged in them and drives the business underground?

And Baptists? How many buses and trains have the Baptists blown up? None? Then why compare their persecution with the "persecution" of Islamist terrorists?

One wonders just how much more destruction it takes before something actually starts being done.

Posted by: rahel at December 16, 2005 11:58 AM

On past form, underground is the last place we want Islamic terrorists to go.

There is short term case to be made for monitoring and infiltrating mosques rather than closing them. This happened at the Finsbury Park Mosque when Captain Hook was in charge. In the long term, however, I would like to see Islam re-defined as a political movement rather than a religion. Those 'extremist' mosques would be a good place to start. This would have a financial impact on mosques, whose charitable status would then be withdrawn.

Amnesty International never had charitable status, as it was seen as a political movement. War on Want, once Gorgeous George Galloway's charity, had charitable status withdrawn for the same reason. Islam is, by its own tenets, a political movement. How difficult can it be to demonstrate this?

Posted by: Interested at December 16, 2005 12:20 PM

Unfortunately the British people ARE moaning about Britain turning into a police state. I'll have to disagree with DC Watson's quote about the "British people deserve much better". They don't. They don't want anything doing about the mud of the earth making threats and blowing up the Tube. The rights of the terrorist unfortunately matter rather more than our right not to get blown up, for far too many of the dhimmified British people. Trying to crack down on terrorism, far from making the Government more popular, is doing the reverse - and it pains me to say this as a Brit.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at December 16, 2005 2:02 PM

This situation calls for an Aslan Lion comeback.
Present British fella is old,blind & toothless - needs to be 'put down' -AND WILL BE BY TERRORIST THUGS
WHO PROLIFERATE EVERY DAY IN LONDONISTAN! Thought France was in a bad way : Britain is far worse. BLame this on the Corruption & paybacks which British politicians have received and are still receiving [Galloway for one] from wealthy oil rich Arab countries. Arabs already own large chunks of Britain, extensive property & investments in 'the wee overcrowded sceptred Isle' - throw out Prince Charlie who is the Muslims' Friend, vociferous supporter of building yet more mosques.
As for Blair this Wannabe Actor with lifts in his shoes - he promises everything 'to stay in power' but in reality has moved about two
Islamic Terrorists in a decade. He is a compulsive liar : I for one am very suspicious of any of his government's statistics. A few years ago papers were leaked stating that 'in event of a Terror Attack police & authorities were to conceal and play down actual casualties'
.... As one Journalist said about recent Fuel Depot Explosions "it is unbelievable that no one
was killed"...Nor do I believe THE NUMBER OF MUSLIMS IN BRITAIN IS ONLY 2.2 MILLION. 'Mohammed' is the sixth most popular name in Britain which suggests the reality there is as many as 5-6 million MUSLIMS READY TO FINISH OFF OLD
BLIGHTY.

Posted by: Morgane at December 16, 2005 2:58 PM

I agree with you interested efforts need to be made to define Islam as a political movement (A rascist and fascist one that is at war with the west). Again it pains me to say it but the only recourse for the UK is to vote for the BNP (I dont like them, but I have yet to see a viable alternative).

War is a horrible thing and make no mistake western europe is upto its neck in a new kind of war against the islamic invasion. So if we can accept the premise that we are at war, then we need to choose the best availiable weapons to deal with it and quickly.

I am not sure we have the luxury of time to try and galvanise an electorate to a new nationalist party. It would be easier to let the BNP evolve during the initial exchanges with Islamists. Lets get the fight started properly before it is too late.

Posted by: km at December 16, 2005 3:12 PM

Again it pains me to say it but the only recourse for the UK is to vote for the BNP

Not as much as it pains me to hear it. The BNP, as Granny W, myself and others have explained ad nauseam, are not the answer.

Nay, nay, thrice nay. Witter ye not.

'Mohammed' is the sixth most popular name in Britain which suggests the reality there is as many as 5-6 million MUSLIMS READY TO FINISH OFF OLD BLIGHTY.

Many Muslim boys are given the name Mohammed as an automatic first name. For example, Mohammed Akbar Rashid, known as Akbar, or Mohammed Bilal Khan, known as Bilal. If all Christian boys had to have the middle name St John, this would distort the figures somewhat, and cause much amusement as foreigners struggled with the pronunciation. What a good idea.

Posted by: Interested at December 16, 2005 3:48 PM

Now, I ain't gonna start a left vs right dogfight and such, but it's very hard to imagine Maggie Thatcher going limp on this like Tony Blair has.

I can say "emboldened Moslem" but I really hate to do that. After all, these hairy folk meet warm encouragement at every turn, much like a dissolute sex addict in a Paris whorehouse on Christmas eve.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 16, 2005 4:03 PM

you would think the BNP would realize they are as much at risk as other non-muslims... why dont they see it as such! we are all in this together!! in the US they have put a hold on the Patriot Act, and McMain the media hoar has enabled a law give AlQueda terrorist more rights!!!

Posted by: Lulu at December 16, 2005 4:08 PM

Again it pains me to say it but the only recourse for the UK is to vote for the BNP (I dont like them, but I have yet to see a viable alternative).

Posted by: km at December 16, 2005 03:12 PM

km:

I think Granny made it abundantly clear that the BNP is a racist party, through and through as their constitution bars any persons who aren't white from membership. They are bigots exploiting the situation and not a remedy to it.

The viable alternative is to see to it that your elected representative hears what his or her constituents think. As large as the UK's Muslim population is, it's still a minority. If enough pols figure they are likely to get the boot in the next election, their survival instinct will kick in, believe me.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 16, 2005 5:14 PM

They are bigots exploiting the situation and not a remedy to it.
Interested and Waterdragon - nicely put.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 16, 2005 5:56 PM

Guys I agree with you, but I really cant see the mainstream parties doing anything, liberalism has so hijacked the minds of these people that they have lost touch with the basic principles of biology and survival. The time for talking is over, we need action.

The question then becomes what action can we take. I think most people here will agree that there is no such thing as 'moderate Islam', and to sit by and hope that legislation will contain the millitants is naive. Especially when you are expecting the mainstream parties to do it. Islam as a politcal movement needs to be crushed and the only way to do it is through direct action. You shut down the mosques, arrest the imamas and deport the followers. Remember trying to engage them through some form of discourse is pointless as they believe their koranic law is the actual word of allah and therefore above any scientifically based political process.

So the alternatives become either somekind of civil uprising by those who wish to expel the islamists much like the Balkans or you find a political party that is willing to address the issue through structured policies that use the rule of law. Remember we dont have the luxury of time here, things need to happen and happen fast before the demographic war is lost.

Both alternatives make me uncomfortable, but the political solution of voting in a nationalist party less so. In times of war preferentially favoring your own clan makes good survival sense. We are involved in a zero sum game here, either we win totally or they do.

I for one am not prepared to let the fast breeding jihadis turn western europe into eurabia. I am intersted though to hear how you have approached your local political representatives and raised this issue with them and what type of response did you get. Did you at all feel it was constructive and did you see any results from it.

Honestly I really wish I could put my faith in the current parties but I cant. This is a war and a war we a currnetly loosing.

Posted by: km at December 16, 2005 7:27 PM

We all know here that Europe is done. Ripe for the pickins',and we'll end up having to free them all over again.

My father did it 60 years ago.It's sad they are lost in even more PC head burrowing than the marshmellows in our country.

God help us all.

Posted by: leviticus at December 17, 2005 12:27 AM

Couldnt agree more leviticus, I just think we should get it sorted out now. The longer we wait the worse it is going to be.

Posted by: km at December 17, 2005 12:52 AM

I have had a good response from my MP. I'm saying no more as discretion is both ladylike and vital on this forum for his and my security.

Do not forget that many good and loyal Britons today have black faces, one or more parents or grandparents who came from the West Indies, African or India. They count among the most vibrant members of the Christian churches (including the Church of England, just look at Dr John Sentamu the Archbishop of York)or have formed peaceful and integrated communities of Hindus and Skihs. Many have seen Islam up close and personal. THe BNP would reject them, for the one superficial reason only.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 17, 2005 3:37 AM

I appreciate that loyal Britons come in all hues, the commonwealth is still vibrant but to worry about their feelings at a time like this is a little short sighted, I believe their loyalties will show when the serious exchanges start and in times of war you remember who stood with you or against you.

I really hope the new Archbishop can galvanise his congregations but I fear that their number is too few. Time is running out Granny and what are you going to do?

Can you at least tell us which political party this miracle worker affiliates with?

Posted by: km at December 17, 2005 5:19 AM

What I remember most wasn't Blair's "promise" to "crack down" on extremists -- what I remember most was Tony Blair tossing the prepared comments at the wrap-up of the G8 summit, and replacing them with, first and foremost, right on the VERY DAY of the London Bombings, to up the ante for the Palestinians to $3B US aid...

A staggering capitulation... Do you think, on the tail of Islamic "suicide" murderers, adopting the invention of the Palestinians of targeting innocents, were then discouraged by this promise of the staggering sum of $3B US??? They must have celebrated -- after all -- bomb Israel -- get unconditional EU support for your Jihad against the Jews... Bomb Londoners while the G8 is meeting in Scotland, and receive $3B US in aid, and promises of much much more.

He caved COMPLETELY on that day -- and subsequent action by Blair and Straw et al has been a near calamity.

Any thoughts about reopening the nominations for international Dhimmi of the Year???

Mr. Blair/Mr. Straw would make a handsome couple striding down the red carpet to receive their just desserts --

Posted by: jsla at December 17, 2005 1:14 PM

Blair is a gutless dhimmi fool.

he thinks he can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Anyway can any UK JW'ers who are3 interested please contact me via Granny W or Katy Peculiar.
I have been working on something which I beleive will if enough people get involved in the UK counter New Dimmi (labour)attempts to sell the UK out to islam and we can't be accused of racism either.

Posted by: apostate_islam at December 17, 2005 2:40 PM

The British people are such a loosers!. In spite of 7/7,and the way Islamists are worming their way right through their county ,they are so careless ,sleepy and 'what ever may happen,let it happen' attitude.
If Britain has to remain a free country,and save her long cherished culture, here are few suggestions:
1. white Britains should start making more babies. Recent census show they are dwindling year after year. It not only save Britain importing thired rate barbaric people into their country,who are the cause for the present state of affairs.
2. It is estimated only twenty five percent of whites go voting.Naturally a pro Islamic Dhimmi will be their head ,and he will be a yes man for the Islamists. (The present mayor of London is a fine example). If Britains are really interested in the future welbeing of their children,and the preservation of their culture, go to poles,and vote 100 percent ,and elect a strong man with a back bone who will protect them.
3.Bring a law to prevent Prison conversions to Islam. Shoe Bomber Reid is a jail convert to Islam. When Islamic countries kill a person ,if he converts to other faith from Islam, why the hell we have to allow their conversions?Cat Stevens(Yousuf Islam) is a sickening example.
4. Police should be more stuburn while dealing with these people.and they should not be greased or rewarded by these islamists.
5. The Queen of England is the protector of the Christian Faith. Make Christianity the British State religion.Amend the Constitution suitably.
6.Give poweres to Police to shoot at sight when ever a riot is broken outand killing is taking place,
7.Whites and non muslims should organise themselves , meet frequently ,pre plan and be prepared in case of a sudden riot to protect themselves and their property.
8.Encourage immigration from non-islamic countries, and the persecuted christians from Islamic nations. These people will assimilate with your country,be greatful to you,and work hard for the country's economy.

Posted by: rafia at December 17, 2005 7:30 PM

Nice one Rafia

A war footing!!!

Where is weatherwax to give us her liberal bleeding heart about how we shouldnt judge these people.

And apostate_islam what do you think is going to turn the dhimmi politicians. We are in deeper than you think. You either start thinking about your survival or you become part of the problem.

Posted by: km at December 18, 2005 7:27 AM

Granny W is hardly a bleeding heart for not wishing to see a bunch of fascists like the BNP in power. She makes the point very well that black Christians in Britain are some of the more active members of the Church. Many black and Asian Britons are every bit as much opposed to Islam as white people. Conversely - look at Yvonne Ridley. This muddying of the waters between race and religion helps nobody. I find it very disturbing that a white supremacist party is being promoted by commenters on this website.

Rafia, a lot of valid points, but some muddled thinking:

The Queen of England is the protector of the Christian Faith. Make Christianity the British State religion.Amend the Constitution suitably.

Christianity is the British state religion in that we have an established church with bishops in the House of Lords. And we can't amend the constitution because we don't have one, not a written one anyway.

Posted by: Interested at December 18, 2005 8:20 AM

Granny W is hardly a bleeding heart for not wishing to see a bunch of fascists like the BNP in power. She makes the point very well that black Christians in Britain are some of the more active members of the Church. Many black and Asian Britons are every bit as much opposed to Islam as white people. Conversely - look at Yvonne Ridley. This muddying of the waters between race and religion helps nobody. I find it very disturbing that a white supremacist party is being promoted by commenters on this website.

Posted by: Interested at December 18, 2005 08:20 AM

I am afraid I don’t share your enthusiasm Interested, issues of color have run their course. These are the trenches of the 21st century, you either learn to fight or you are going to die.

Posted by: km at December 18, 2005 8:50 AM

How does electing a bunch of fascists, with no plan at all for running the country other than repatriating non-whites, help Britain?

Are you going to put the Klu Klux Klan in power?

The way you spell 'color' indicates that you're American, so I'll put your enthusiasm for the BNP down to ignorance rather than racism.

Posted by: Interested at December 18, 2005 9:22 AM

I dont want to see them in power I just want to see Britain survive.

They have one plan for Britain and it is the only plan that counts at the moment, engaging Islam.

Pretty much all their other policies are socialist clap trap.

None of the other parties over there are even anywhere near close to tackling this issue.

And believe me you dont have the luxury of time, every moment the UK waits to do something, the demographic bomb is nearer to exploding.

Interested I have yet to hear any constructive plan from you regarding how you fight this war.

Posted by: km at December 18, 2005 2:23 PM

KM,

your comment
"And apostate_islam what do you think is going to turn the dhimmi politicians. We are in deeper than you think. You either start thinking about your survival or you become part of the problem."

is ignorant.

This is not a colour issue never has been and never will be.
If I am not wrong white austrailians, with blond hair and blue eyes have been captured fighting with the taliban, and then there is the case of Jon Walker Lindt.

The basic issue of colour makes things nice and simple for simple folk like you.

I will tell you what will turn the politicians.
There are between 1.8-2.2 million moslems in this country.
That is what the politicians see, votes.

There are an estimated 2-3 million gays in this country.
I am not sure about the number of hindus and sikhs but the figure is substantial.
Their are numerous wine and beer drinkers.
womens rights activists
islam has some thing for every one.
All of the above groups will turn the politicians.

It is very unlikely that you would have the privilage but if you ever found yourself sitting around a table with a group of elderly Sikh or Hindu gentlemen then they would tell you tales about islam that would make your macho American toes curl.

This is not a race issue it is a human rights issue and every non moslems rights would be affected.

My parents came from India, we knew the horrors of islam from way back in 8-9th century.
Your macho american bravado is useless, this is "Information warfare" too many people do not know what islam is, we JW'er will provide them with the "Information" and the "warfare" will be conducted in the ballot box, the media and with politicians when they knock on our doors.
We haven't quite got down to FIBUA yet !
The British people are tolerant not stupid.
When the bombs went off in London I was very apprehensive, we are the only non white family on our road. Guess what? nothing happened.

This is the sort of warfare which calls for intelligence, so you may as well register as a "conscientious objector"

Regards

AI

Posted by: apostate_islam at December 18, 2005 3:51 PM

I'm not wasting any more of my valuable time debating you Km, or Lord Lucan, or any other of the 9000 members of the BNP. I have better things to do with it, like challenging jihad. And I'm not posting here about what and how because you don't know who is reading (Why are you so keen to know? Who do you know that is interested? If I ever meet the driver of the Boudicca Bus when it's on the woad I might discourse with him, but not here).

If believing that I should judge a man by the content of his character, not the colour of his skin makes me a bleeding heart liberal, then LET IT BLEED.
YOU MIGHT WANNA SING OR SCREAM IT!!!!

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at December 18, 2005 4:03 PM

KM,

your comment
"And apostate_islam what do you think is going to turn the dhimmi politicians. We are in deeper than you think. You either start thinking about your survival or you become part of the problem."

is ignorant

This is not a colour issue never has been and never will be.
If I am not wrong white austrailians, with blond hair and blue eyes have been captured fighting with the taliban, and then there is the case of Jon Walker Lindt.

Posted by: apostate_islam at December 18, 2005 03:51 PM

What makes you think that I am bringing color into it. I am just saying that you need to wake up. You are loosing the war over there.

I will say it again so you understand, as a people you need to take measures and soon. White or black Islam doesnt care and you are being subjugated.

And granny why would you be suspicious of my motives, I just want to know what you think should be done and how you are going about it. Maybe you have a solution that none of us has thought about, somehow I doubt it though.

Posted by: km at December 18, 2005 4:19 PM