Florida is one of many places in the United States where the truth is censored by the mainstream media, and CAIR gets a column whenever they deign to instruct the kuffar how to properly submit.

Welcome to our Cringing Dhimmi New World.

Posted by: Beagle at December 16, 2005 11:18 AM

Robert,

Thanks for posting this, and thanks for naming the company in question.

TES,

This is disturbing.

If you're reading this, encourage others not to do business with those who refused to print your card.

As a purely practical matter, as you may know, the business cards can be printed up on a home computer's printer (there is special card paper for this).

Posted by: Archimedes at December 16, 2005 11:32 AM

What an excellent card!

I'm not sure whether the reader wants to retain anonymity (often, a necessary evil when opposing this evil cult) The reader might also pursue this "right to refuse" crap with a lawyer, and hope there is a non-infiltrated local newspaper that would pick up the story. The publicity might be a good thing.

Posted by: Infidel33 at December 16, 2005 11:39 AM

With the right software you should be able to print out these cards from your own PC.
It'll save you some money too.

Posted by: Elephant at December 16, 2005 11:40 AM

Thanks for the tip Robert. I bought some Christmas gifts from Office Max and I WILL return them today. I will never shop at Office Max again.

Posted by: WineDrinkingInfidel at December 16, 2005 11:42 AM

Office Max, you say? Let's find out more about Office Max, and about those particular printers. Perhaps Office Max stores all over the country can learn why people will now choose to go elsewhere, until that little situation in Florida is cleared up. I'm heading for Staples later, to look for things that I might -- might -- have also looked for at Office Max.

One wants to get their attention, so that the precise reasons for this denial of services -- can be made clear.

Possibly it is all a horrible mistake. Possibly the printers looked at the picture, and looked at the list of websites, and misunderstood -- and thought that the card was a defense of those who support the Jihad.

But if not, perhaps this denial of service could be made the basis for a lawsuit. Something to get attention.

Any pro-bono lawyers in sunny Florida now reading this, willing to go to bat and make a point, and make our collective day?

Posted by: Hugh at December 16, 2005 11:45 AM

The question is whether the refusal was due to political moonbattery or Muslim printers. The only thing inflammatory about your card was the sentiment expressed by the sign held in the photograph -- in other words showing truthful evidence is inflammatory to someone in your printing industries. Amazing!

Print them on your own computer using business card stock, overspray them for permanance, and be sure to mail a few to every printer in your area and the idiots at OfficeDhimmi too. Or, just look around for a printer with an American flag flying out front. Print alot, leave them everywhere.

I just have little slips of paper that say "What you don't know - jihadwatch.org." I leave them where they will be seen.

Posted by: QuickHenryTheFlit at December 16, 2005 11:45 AM

This is an interesting piece because the Muslims are hanging out in places like this and using their computers. The government should be looking into some of the Kinko's, Office Max's, or anywhere else public computer terminals are available for the Muslims to jump online.

I know a couple people who work for ************, and they have told me that they've seen some of these Somalians on what appeared to be jihad websites. It all gets saved to the hard drive, and the "G" should be checking it out.

In the meantime, Office Max deserves all of the negative publicity it gets.

Posted by: DCWatson at December 16, 2005 11:46 AM

TES, You can do your business cards at home on a PC, save a great deal of money, as well as avoiding the PC police.

My husband made his own, they look quite professional.

Posted by: treehugger at December 16, 2005 11:50 AM

Did TES get her money back??

If this is not Sencorship I don't know what is!!

WE AINT LIVING IN A COMMIE MULSUM COUNTRY SUE SUE SUE!!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOS BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR DECEPTION AMEN

PS
Find another Print place!!

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 11:51 AM

"Tes",
Is one of the nicest people online I have had the chance to be aquainted with. And on the lighter side of this , she has found a company that will print out the business cards. Best wishes "Tes" , keep up the good fight! :)

Jeff

Posted by: MississippiMud at December 16, 2005 11:53 AM

I have never shopped at Office Max and will continue the practice.
Caribou Coffee is run my Muslims - I refuse to give them my business as I have no idea where their zakat could go - from my buying their coffee!

Posted by: peri at December 16, 2005 11:57 AM

Try Vistaprint.com I used them to print up bussiness cards that read..

What is Dhimmitude?
Subjugation
Where is Eurabia? Who is Bat Y'or?

Jihadwatch.org
Dhimmitude.org
Faithfreedom.org

They have a drifting sand background (One of vistaprints standard card backgrounds) and I distribute them on the train commute to and from work, restaurants, malls etc...

They always have a special on 250 cards for free, just pay shipping. (usually around $5-7 in the US midwest)You can also order customized cards with your own pictures etc...for a larger fee. I've been using them for years for all my bussiness cards.

Posted by: balticwaves at December 16, 2005 11:57 AM

This may be an example of the exact opposite thing to what everyone above is assuming. Before jumping to conclusions, isn't it possible that the printer in question, in his or her ignorance, interpreted your card to be supportive of Jihad? Read the email carefully, with an open mind, and with a sense of the relative ignorance the average American would read the information provided... The simple occurrence of the word "Jihad" is sufficient to make nearly any red blooded American furious. Why do you assume this person has knowledge about the contents of "JihadWatch." Robert himself has often posted emails from Jihadis who mistake this site for a Jihadi site... The same thing happens elsewhere.. And while we find the photo to be an obvious example of the extremely objectionable and supremacist message of Islam, it is also the exact same kind of triumphalist propaganda that a truculent Jihadi would love to see, and to promulgate for "The American people have the right to know the truth..." According to CAIR, and most Muslims, this is the exact message they're trying to spread. They think that Islam will and should dominate us -- they would find no shame, and nothing out of place with the message on the placard...

The presentation of the information in the email doesn't make the position of the emailer clear enough -- it's possible, and in fact quite likely, that the printer interpreted those websites, the mention of the word Jihad, and the photo to be PRO Jihadi, rather than ANTI...

Posted by: jsla at December 16, 2005 12:05 PM

One needs to understand what was going on here, what lead to the decision that something was not fit to print, before a boycott -- possibly the wrong one -- begins.

Posted by: Hugh at December 16, 2005 12:12 PM

JSLA raises a very important point.

In addition, we all have to bear in mind that the reality we see all too clearly is quite shocking. To be blunt, we can sound like an anrgy group, rightfully so. The forces we are trying to expose are terrifying. To someone who does not understand what the Quran and Hadith actually say, or believes Islam is like other religions, our message is stunning. Much like the rejection, fear, excuse-making and self-loathing that the Muslim apostate goes through (as described by Ali Sina), apostates from the progressive, multicultural creed struggle as well; prehaps harder, because these ideals make more sense than Islam, and work quite well in most situations. I do not have an easy answer to the question of how we can enlighten them without triggering these reactions. Maybe there is no way, and everyone has to come to their own conclusion in their own time.

Quijybo

Posted by: Quijybo at December 16, 2005 12:21 PM

Can't cards like these be printed right off of a home computer?

Posted by: DCWatson at December 16, 2005 12:36 PM

And the Aussi's can't go to the Beach this week-end because of the islamic terrorist??

OH THE PEOPLE GET IT!!

When they grow a set??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER AND SCREW THE REST AMEN

PS
DEMOCRATS BLOCK THE PATROIT ACT SO THE DEMOCRATS WILL BE THE CAUSE OF THE NEXT ATTACK ON THE USA OH YEA WE CAN'T FORGET JOHN McCAINS PART EITHER!!

Again Samuel Adams is apropos:

"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, 'What should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your consul, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget ye were our countrymen."
Posted by: Kemaste at January 13, 2005 08:35 PM

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 12:42 PM

The posters above are right that the card's message ambiguous. The card has to be changed to make TES's position clear, otherwise people who don't know these websites are going to misinterpret it. That might be difficult to do, given the picture used on the card.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 16, 2005 1:08 PM

95% of pro-Moslem censorship comes in the form of self-censorship, and 5% external censorship.

There is no such thing as as pro-Infidel censorship. That's a damaging imbalance that goes to the Fictive Reality of the Moderate Moslem, an awful piece of faker that is strangling us all.

Marshall McLuhan must be rolling in his grave over the masterful agitprop job the Moslems are pulling off.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

"Caribou Coffee is run my Muslims."
-- posted by peri

A few months ago Caribou's Moslem owners put out a press release pridefully announcing that its stores are Sharia compliant.

I wish I could afford to pay for a Boycott Caribou billboard. That would go a long way.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 16, 2005 1:09 PM

...my suggestion: Use a different picture, because that one with the Islam Will Dominate slogan on it is going to conflict with whatever text you put on there.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 16, 2005 1:14 PM

JSLA:

If what you are saying is correct, then the ACLU may take up the case for TES.

Otherwise, if the opposite is in fact true, it is no surprise. To be sure, if it was a muslim printer, the standard in Florida has already been set by the Muslim FBI agent/friend of Al-Arian.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20487

They would not risk offending the "brotherhood".

From a business standpoint, I would make them publicly defend their actions and give reasoning for their refusal. If it is in their policy, what better way for the public to be alerted.

Make it a local issue. Email your local talk show hosts, news affiliates (TV and Paper) and politicians if need be. Someone may very well pick it up.

It may be no coincidence that this has happened to you at "such a time as this."

Posted by: XRDC at December 16, 2005 1:17 PM

"I wish I could afford to pay for a Boycott Caribou billboard. That would go a long way."

I wish I could afford Caribou coffee, so I could then boycott them(legitimately).

Oh well, looks like its Folger's Crystals for me

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at December 16, 2005 1:25 PM

Before you go off on a crusade, you should find out exactly who the person who refused was, and why they refused. It is possible the the people denying you were actually against Islam, but didn't know about this site. That picture could scare a lot of people, you know. Perhaps they thought that you WERE an Islamic extremist. all i'm saying is make sure you know everything first.

Posted by: templar at December 16, 2005 1:26 PM

Please Mr. Hugh and Mr. Robert would you do some field testing by sending a clearly anti-American pro-Jihadi card to be printed. I suggest the slogan that a Moroccan-hardly-an-American contractor working for our inelegance services shouted in a secure compound in Baghdad: “May Allah grant Islam, the only true faith, victory... America will be destroyed.” The card should be adored by the green crescent moon and star on the top and flanked by crossed swords. I am welling to bet that it will get printed. We wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

Posted by: have_mercy at December 16, 2005 1:29 PM

BTW -- I think this exposes a critical matter which i find worrying... How is the complex message of anti-Jihad, or anti-Islam to be effectively promulgated so that the greater audience can hear it? If it needs to be simpler, then how can this simplified message go out without becoming fascist and nationalistic as a result... Is this even possible? I am beginning to wonder... Perhaps Islam's greatest damage has been done already, not by dominating us, but by forcing our hand to monsterous ourselves in order to not succumb to it's rape of our culture... It has already been successful in robbing us of our pluralistic soul --

The conundrum we all face is that we cannot tolerate Islam, and remain tolerant ourselves.

If my posts sometimes appear hateful of Islam, it is mainly because of this -- Islam has already harmed us gravely, and perhaps even in the act of defending ourselves against it, we will inevitably lose more than we would ever wish...

And if we are to succeed against our Muslim enemies, it is important that we don't hand Muslims another pretext for their tendentious but effective claims of victimhood at "infidel" hands and in "infidel" lands... I know in my bones that we will not win against this determined and patient enemy unless we push back, and HARD... Hard enough to crush the Jihadi impulse forever, this may require that we destroy Islam! What would THAT entail? Yet this may be the sine qua non of victory against Islam's predations...

In the interim, I very much support these imaginative actions of TES... Perhaps this entire printing incident is a better story about how confusing the issue of Islam is for the average Westerner -- something that works greatly in favor of the Muslims by the way... They can, more or less, bank on the ignorance of most Westerners regarding the "religion" of Islam. Islam is, after all, both absurd and confusing...

Hugh often says this site is a pedogogical site -- and that is great... But the wider message will never be heard by the wider audience unless it is boiled down to essentials. To expect the average America to familiarize himself with Islam in all its tangled complex horror is to expect far too much... And the confusion and arcana of Islam is something which greatly aids the Muslim proselytizer -- he can count on it to insidiously spread Islam -- sugar coat the poison... Foist it on the unsuspecting -- few can or will take the time to find out what the real ingredients of this poison are...

If I am correct, if the "message" for the wider audience needs to be simpler, what should the "essentials" of that message be?

Posted by: jsla at December 16, 2005 1:38 PM

For anyone returning merchandise to Office Max, please remember to tell the store manager the reason why you won't shop there anymore, and then tell them good luck with relying on Muslims to keep them in enough business to keep their doors open.

Posted by: DCWatson at December 16, 2005 1:43 PM

I print my own cards by using Microsoft Publisher, which is included with Microsoft Office. Of course, the cards aren't of the highest quality, but out they go to many drop points, even in the fruits and vegetables section at the grocery market.

Posted by: WatchfulEye at December 16, 2005 1:51 PM

All I see here is a Muslim saying his religion will dominate the world. What about that? Is he implying there will be a military invasion, forced conversion, what? If it was instead a Christian who was saying Christianity will dominate the world, you wouldnt brawl so much. Just damp down your islamophobic paranoia.

This is my last post here. After that Im gone.

All I have seen here is the bashing of a religion based on news about some Muslims committing crimes that you say are sanctioned by all the Muslims of the world, followed by comments with yet more bashing, some of them written by human trash only comparable to Bin Laden, like the one hoping for the impoverishment of the Arab world, comments signed with stupid names such as “crusader”, or “templar”; comments from people who has no clue about Islam besides what biased medias like this shove them down their throats.

You treat the whole religion as “evil”, “violent”, “intolerant”, only choosing some parts of it and deliberately refusing to consider the others because it wouldn’t suit your pre-made stereotypes and it wouldn’t suit the message of intolerance you are trying to transmit, the same intolerance that you then blame on Muslims. You live in a delusion, believing you are yourselves free of any defects, ignoring the involvement of the USA and the rest of the occidental world in crimes against the Muslim countries, ignoring it was the US via the CIA who trained and used Bin Laden (like they used Sadam) for their own purpose and helped him create his little group that would later become al-qaeda and get out of hand (yes you have the bad habit of playing with fire until it burns your hands). You ignore as well the crimes that Christians have committed in their history, how the Jews were treated under Christian rule, while you blame Islam for being an intolerant religion, wanting to “correct” the “widely spread myth” about the medieval Muslim culture being one of the more tolerant to ever exist -apparently for some reason I fail to understand, only you are right, while the rest of people, who are either Muslims, leftist whackos, or clueless people who has not yet been enlightened by your message, are wrong. You ignore the atrocities committed by Christians in the present times, like the murder of children in Christian Africa because their parents think they are possessed by the Devil. Should that be a justification to “remove” Christianity so these crimes will not be committed anymore? You ignore the not so well known aspects of the creation of Israel, like the fact that the British broke the promise to give Palestine to the Palestinians when those helped them fight the Turkish empire, and gave the Jews the best lands of Palestine when they ruled it as a colony and the Jews were immigrating, or the nature of the Israeli unit 101, lead by Sharon; you ignore facts like Israel involvement in the Sabra and Chatila genocide, and its crimes against the Palestinian population in the present times.

the rest of the occidental world, seeing those who do not share your ideas as being “wrong”, “pusillanimous”, and “knee jerking” to the “jihadists”, and you see the more than one billion Muslims of the world as being little less than “terrorists”, or at least “brainwashed”, or even inspired by “Satan”. A message of ignorance and hate is the only thing you could achieve here. Lets hope this site is not given too much credibility. What would you say if I was African and created a blog where I would only put news about the American racists, their crimes, their ideology, countless cases of racist crimes, discrimination, or despise against blacks, declarations of white racists advocating for the extermination of the black people, note how they declare themselves Christians, and then affirm that this behaviour is the one of all the white Americans? This is exactly what you are doing here.

You do not give news about the vast majority of Muslims who are just normal people. You do not show news about all these American Muslims who feel just as American as you, who only want to work for their family, their country and lead a peaceful life; or the Muslims who serve in your army, or the ones who died in the 11/9 attacks, just as you don’t show the manifestations of Muslims expressing their support for the US after these attacks (they expressed their support for people like you too, only to see how you treat them in return). Are you not aware of how the life of Muslims in Occident is more difficult after the 11/9? Do you know the case of a Muslim woman who lost a son in the terrorist bombing of the 11/3 in Spain and then had to bear how she was called “terrorist moor” as she walked the street? Are you not aware of how spreading these messages will only cause more hate, intolerance, and discrimination towards Muslims in Occident, making their lives even more difficult? Do you not realize that while you think you are doing something good for your country, you are only helping al-qaeda to win?

Muslims have problems, and terrorism, whose main victims have been and are Muslim, is not the less. But don’t dare to criticize other people when your countries have committed atrocities that Bin Laden couldn’t achieve in the rest of his lifetime. Only the US have killed more people in the past 50 years than Muslims did in their 1300 years of history. You have killed innocent people, overthrew democratic governments and put in place and supported corrupt dictatures all over the world. Your democratic governments have starved the Iraqi people to death during 12 years with an embargo that directly caused 5000 children less than 5 years old to die each MONTH. You used depleted uranium bombs who caused cancer to many Iraqis, caused babies to born with horrible birth deformities and, pathetic even, afflicted some of your own soldiers. You overthrew the democratic government of Iran in the 1953 coup and condemned the Iranians to 26 years of dictature which would eventually cause the Islamic revolution of 1979. With the justification that Iran was a threat for the stability in the Middle East, even tough its army had been dissolved after the Revolution (but the reasons were rather the loss of a pawn in the region and the loss of the Iranian oil), you gave Sadam weapons including weapons of mass destruction and gave him your blessing to attack Iran.

The result were 8 years of war, at last one million Iranian deaths, 100 000 of them by chemical weapons, and horrible sequels for those who survived to them. Do you know how many Iranians, to this day, have to go to the hospital twice a week to suck the water out of their lungs, because they keep getting filled with water every day, or have their entire skin peeled, or inject a load of morphine, just to live for another painful week? And while women and children were being gazed, some Americans were chanting “Bomb bomb Iran” and dancing to it. The whole western world granted Sadam total immunity while he committed those crimes, until he stopped being useful. Do you know that the only pictures of Saddam's crime in Iran and in Kurdish regions were taken by Iranian journalists, and the whole Western world just looked the other way? Do you not remember how Reagan said he would veto any sanction intended against Sadam at the very moment he was gazing Kurdish and Iranian villages?

You expressed your condolences to the victims of the 11/9 many times, but did you ever apologize for all the innocents who died because of the actions of the governments you have elected and supported? You said that the 3 000 deaths of the 11/9 were a coward terrorist attack, but you call the 100 000 Iraqi civilians killed during the invasion, the support of Sadam and the Iranian murdered during the Iran-Iraq war the “best strategy” or the “lesser of two evils”, or any other politically correct term that allows the responsible of these crimes and those who support them to sleep in peace and think in their madness that they are somehow better than Bin Laden. And then some of you have the nerve to blame Muhammad for expulsing the Christians and the Jews from the Arabic peninsula 1300 years ago… you are pathetic.

And now, here is a moving story about the Muslim world you despise so much, but you wont put news like that in your hate site, because it wouldn’t suit the message of hate you are trying to spread.

Palestinian´s Organs Save Jewish Lives
A Gesture for Peace Amid Jerusalem´s Violence

JERUSALEM, JUNE 6, 2001 (Zenit.org).- The family of Mazen Julani, 33, who was shot on the outskirts of Jerusalem, donated his organs to patients in the Israeli hospital of Hadassa, where he died.

"We agreed to donate Mazen's organs because what matters is to save human lives, the more the better, be they Jews, Christians or Muslims," the victim's father, Lufti Julani, said. Julani, 75, a Palestinian rural worker, spoke during an interview on Israeli military radio.

The family of the deceased, a pharmacist, gave its consent so that the Israeli Bank of Organ Donations could transplant his lungs, liver, pancreas and one of his kidneys. The other kidney was donated to a 13-year-old Palestinian boy.

Three Jews and an Arab were the beneficiaries of this gesture of good will with which the Julanis hoped to show the world that they are tired of the bloodshed and wish to live in peace and freedom.

Mazen was sitting in a bar when a gunman in a passing car shot him in the back of the neck.

The owner of the bar, located at the entrance of the Shuafaf refugee camp, believes a Jewish settler was responsible. It happened Friday, the same night as the suicide attack on the Tel Aviv discothèque. "Revenge," the proprietor said.

The Israeli police, however, believe it was a "settling of accounts," something the Julani family denies.

When Mazen died, Lufti Julani wanted his kidneys to go to one of his younger sons, who is ill. But the brothers' kidneys were not compatible. The doctors then asked the elderly father if he would donate Mazen's organs. He asked for time to give it some thought.

"I consulted the Muslim authorities, who assured me that the gesture not only could be carried out according to the Koran, but that, in addition, it is a meritorious and just act, regardless of the religion of the recipient of the organs," said Lufti Julani. "I then gave my consent."

Igal Cohen, one of the Jewish citizens who received an organ, thanked the Julani family publicly from the pages of the Maariv newspaper, and said he would like to meet Mazen's father and brothers.

That’s got to be the “myth” of the religion of love.

"To kill one innocent human being is like killing the entire humanity; and to save one life is like saving all of humanity"

Time to bring down the dhimmi myth: see the last post of this thread:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009343.php

About Mohammad “paedophily” go to this thread:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009355.php

For a long debate and explanation about the Coran verses, hadiths, and such, go to this thread:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009356.php

Posted by: Ispanan at December 16, 2005 2:07 PM

63%Of people polled in the USA feel safer after the Man who said he had a bomb was shot and killed!!

Now I call this a real poll never thought they would make this one public!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/12/16/131451.shtml
Senate Rejects Extension of Patriot Act
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, Dec. 16, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Friday rejected attempts to reauthorize several provisions of the USA Patriot Act as infringing too much on Americans' privacy and liberty, dealing a huge defeat to the Bush administration and Republican leaders.

In a crucial vote early Friday, the bill's Senate supporters were not able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a threatened filibuster by Sens. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final vote was 52-47.

SAD THIS IS THIS ONLY HURTS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/12/13/195949.shtml

If We Forget the Past, History Will Repeat Itself in Iraq
Philip V. Brennan
Wednesday, Dec. 14, 2005

They were finally conquered by the Mongols and Turks in the 13th century, who then converted to Islam and, in the 15th century, overthrew the tottering Byzantine Empire (1453). From that stronghold (Constantinople) they even threatened the German Empire, but were successfully defeated at the gates of Vienna, and driven back across the Danube, in 1683.

That defeat failed to quench the fires of militant Islam, and today's jihad (holy war) is but an extension of radical Islam's lust to subdue the world. It has a new face – that of Osama bin Laden – and a revived jihad led by al-Qaida, now the world's most infamous terrorist organization. Al-Qaida – "the base" in Arabic – is a network of extremists organized by bin Laden. It is a multinational force and has a worldwide presence.

OH READ THE WHOLE THING!!

PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP BUT THE DEMOCRATS NO LONGER SEE THEMSELVES AS AMERICANS OR WESTERN??? SAD! SAD! SAD!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/16/110520.shtml

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Friday, Dec. 16, 2005 11:04 a.m. EST
U.S. 'Torturing' Thousands of American Citizens

The U.S. military is engaged in the systematic "torture" of hundreds of thousands of American citizens - according to new standards established by the McCain amendment, which forbids cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of terrorist detainees.

Los Angeles Times columnist Max Boot blew the lid off the outrageous torture scandal earlier this week, reporting:

"There are major facilities all over the country where thousands of men and women who have not committed any crime are held for prolonged periods while subjected to physical and psychological coercion that violates every tenet of the Geneva Convention."

Boot details the horrific "torture" techniques carried out on these unsuspecting Americans.

• They are routinely made to stand for long periods in uncomfortable positions.

• They are made to walk for hours while wearing heavy loads on their backs.

• They are bullied by martinets who get in their faces and yell insults at them.

• They are hit and often knocked down with clubs known as pugil sticks.

• They are denied sleep for more than a day at a time.

• They are forced to inhale tear gas.

• They are prevented from seeing friends or family.

"Some are traumatized by this treatment," notes Boot. "A few even die."

Worse still, the systematic torture of Americans appears to have been sanctioned at the highest levels of the White House.

Yet the abuse continues without a peep of protest from Sen. McCain and his Democratic allies - like Sen. Dick Durbin, who decried the "Nazi-like" interrogation techniques employed on terrorists held at Guantanamo Bay.

The locations of these U.S.-based Abu Ghraibs? Parris Island, S.C., Camp Pendleton, Calif., Ft. Benning, Ga., Ft. Jackson, S.C., and other bases where the Army and Marines train recruits.

We trust that Sen. McCain will launch an investigation into the brutal techniques employed by U.S. military trainers as soon as he's finished tying the hands of America's military interrogators.

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM YES I MEAN ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 2:09 PM

What more can I say other than welcome to the global caliphate America by 2150. You've got the power to stop the march of Islamofascism in the world, but won't do anything to stop it in your own back yard.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at December 16, 2005 2:18 PM

Posted by: Ispanan at December 16, 2005 02:07 PM

NICE TRY BUT WE CAN READ IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE!!

Qur’an 48:11 “The desert Arabs who lagged behind [in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): ‘We were engaged in (looking after) our flocks and our families.’ We have prepared for them a Blazing Fire!”

THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE USING TO CALL TO FIGHT NOW!!

Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”

Ubl [yellow coward who runs away] USE THIS TO TAKE OUT THE WTC NOT SOME THING HE THOUGHT UP??

Qur’an 4:88 “What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.

YEA RIGHT LOOK AT EVERY MULSUM COUNTRY A SHIT HOLE!!

” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
Qur’an 47:21 “Were they to obey, showing their obedience in modest speech, after the matter (of preparation for Jihad) had been determined for them, it would have been better. Is it to be expected that if you were put in authority and given command that you would do mischief in the land and sever your ties of kinship. Such men are cursed by Allah. He has made them deaf, dumb and blind.”
Qur’an 4:97 “Verily, when angels take the souls of those who die wronging themselves (by staying home), they say: ‘In what (plight or engagement) were you?’ They reply: ‘Weak on the earth.’ Such men will find their abode in Hell, an evil resort!”

NOW THAT AINT LOOKING TO GOOD??

Qur’an 9:48 “They had plotted sedition before, and upset matters for you until the Decree of Allah [to fight] became manifest, much to their disgust. Among them are many who say: ‘Grant me exemption to stay back at home (exempted from Jihad). And do not tempt me [with promises of booty].’ Have they not fallen into temptation already? Indeed, Hell surrounds them.”

WHO ARE THESE MONSTERS WHO SAY IT IS OKAY TO KILL IRAQI CHILDREN? FROM SAUIDI ARABIA EGYPT JORDAN PALESTINIANS, SYRIA, ENGLAND, FRANCE, GERMANY,? YES WESTERN MULSUMS WHO LIVE IN FREEDOM CHOOSE TO GO KILL IRAQI CHILDREN WHY????????

Qur’an 9:75 “Some of you made a deal with Allah, saying, ‘If You give us booty we shall pay You the tax.’ But when He gave them booty, they became greedy and refused to pay. As a consequence of breaking their promises, Allah filled their hearts with hypocrisy which will last forever.”

COULD THIS BE THE UN AND THE OIL FOR FOOD OR THE ARAB LEAGE WHO HOLD THE IRAQI PEOPLE PRISNOR TO THE YELLOW COWARDS?

Qur’an 9:77 “He punished them by putting hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day whereon they shall meet Him, because they lied to Allah and failed to perform as promised. Allah knows their secrets. Those who slander and taunt the believers who pay the zakat (for Allah’s Cause) voluntarily and throw ridicule on them, scoffing, Allah will throw back their taunts, and they shall have a painful doom. Whether you ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable). If you ask seventy times for their forgiveness Allah will not forgive them.”

YES THE ONES WHO CALL FOR THE MURDER OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK WILL BURN IN HELL READ 5:32 AND THE USA WHO SAVED THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM SADDAM AS IF THEY HAVE SAVED ALLMANKIND?

Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”

SAUDI ARABIA WHO WILL NOT COME TO THE AID OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE WHO FIGHTS THE YELLOW MONSTERS WHO CUT OFF AMERICANS HEADS AND IRAQI CHILDRENS HEADS BUT SUPPORT THE MONSTERS?

Qur’an 9:85 “And let not their wealth or (following in) sons dazzle you or excite your admiration. Allah’s plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and to make sure their souls perish while they are unbelievers. When a surah comes down enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask you for exemption from Jihad. They prefer to be with (their women), who remain behind (at home). Their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.”

YES THE WEALTH OF EGYPT AND ALL THE OTHERS WHO

FIGHT AGAINST PEACE? FOR HAVE THEY REWRITTEN THE BOOK?

AND NOW A YELLOW CURSE IS UPON THE MULSUM PEOPLE??

HOW SAD??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 2:34 PM

Man, I love this site-- all the things I learn about here that no one else has the intestinal fortitude to touch.

So Caribou Coffee is Sharia compliant? Yecch, blah, ptooey. And the friggin' airports are full of them. Creepy.

It's good to know that, since with family scattered across the country, I fly a fair amount, and drink coffee with all the moderation of a frat kid at a kegger. (I'm a grad student. I'll try to kick caffeine when/if ever I'm a tenured professor.)

Any other Sharia-friendly companies I should know about?

Posted by: Shinoliite at December 16, 2005 2:49 PM

"Any other Sharia-friendly companies I should know about?"

Apparently Church's Chicken(ironically named)
is owned by the same Company

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at December 16, 2005 3:19 PM

Well, If turning away business is Office Max's idea of being successful, they should be having some rather interesting stockholder meetings in the future.

Posted by: RIslander at December 16, 2005 3:25 PM

making these cards sound like a good idea, can you tell me how they turn out, and can we order them or make,, where would be good places for these cards..would you post them in grocery stores, pet stores. or just hand them out.. this is something a regular person can do..any ideas would be great.

Posted by: Lulu at December 16, 2005 3:58 PM

Boo...down with Office Max...up with Catherine...Catherine, did I ever tell you that I love you?

Bet that was one persons decision. I doubt they had a board meeting about it. There is probably some kind of policy about what they will print and what they wont, porn for instance. But someone, somewhere made the decision to reject this order. Find that person and you will find Abdallah or Abd-PC, or even worse, both.

Posted by: duh_swami at December 16, 2005 4:05 PM

"But the wider message will never be heard by the wider audience unless it is boiled down to essentials ... the "message" for the wider audience needs to be simpler, what should the "essentials" of that message be?
-- posted by jsla

To envision that, take a gander at any successful major ad campaign.

Run a sustained series of dramatic spots chronicling the tenets of Islam and the history of Moslems. All very factual and sourced by citation.

To me, a single 60-second ad starting with Abu Afak and ending with Banu Qurayza would turn the tide of history. Show the sleeping Afak being run through for daring to criticize Islam, show the dismembered heads being tossed into the pit.

Americans see nastier fare than that every day.

After they got over the initial shock of what they were just taught, tens of millions would be looking at our aggrieved welfare-mooch new neighbors with newly jaundiced eyeballs.

And the regrettable George and Condi would have to shut up with their lying bullcrap.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 16, 2005 4:13 PM

There are sites that list Muslim-owned businesses that are hoping to attract a Muslim clientele. Should you be a Muslim, you may well wish to find those lists, and to mark carefully down the names of those businesses, and give them your business.

And should you be an Infidel, you might want to find those lists, and to mark carefully down the names of those businesses, and give them -- well, whatever you deem appropriate, for your own wellbeing, and that of your children.

Posted by: Hugh at December 16, 2005 4:23 PM

Posted by: duh_swami at December 16, 2005 04:05 PM

NO :-)!!!

But since I broke my foot this moring and can't wear my high heals for a while I'll take the good news!!

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/12/16/afx2396676.html
US House votes in favor of Mexico border fence proposal
12.16.2005
WASHINGTON (AFX) - The House of Representatives voted in favor of a proposed security fence in selected areas along the border with Mexico to deter illegal immigration, officials said.

The 260-159 voice vote on an amendment to a bill on illegal immigration 'mandates the construction of specific security fencing, including lights and cameras, along the Southwest border for the purposes of gaining operational control of the border

AT LEAST SOME IN CONGRESS HAVE A SET!!

http://www.mosnews.com/images/g/s116.shtml
Ultranationalist March in Downtown Moscow
Created: 07.11.2005

Some 1,000 activists of those groups marched through the city streets shouting slogans carrying placards that read: “Russia for the Russians!”, “Glory to Russia,” “Out with Illegal Migrants!”, and the like.

Activists of the liberal youth movement Oborona (Defense) attacked the nationalists and threw firecrackers and condoms filled with water at them, Ekho Moskvy correspondent reported from the scene.

The police responded promptly to the attack by surrounding the Oborona activists and forcing them down a side-street while the march continued as planned

YES ISLAMIC TERRORIST HAVE A WAY TO GET PEOPLE REALLY PISSED!!

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/06/muslimsigns.shtml
Russia’s Muslims Want Christian Symbols Removed From Coat of Arms
Created: 06.12.2005 16:34 MSK
A group of top Muslim clerics have demanded that Orthodox Christian symbols be removed from the Russian coat of arms and have complained about the Russian authorities and power-wielding structures allegedly refusing to abide by the principle of secularity, the Interfax news agency reported.

AND A NUCULAR PLANT IN RUSSIA BLOWS UP OH YEA HOW CAN WE FORGET THE #2 CALL FOR THE ATTACK AND WHERE OH WHERE COULD HE BE ???? IRAN MAYBE??
MAYBE THIS IS WHY THE RUSSIAN CHURCH WOULD NOT MEET WITH THE ROMA CHURCH SENCE THE ROMA CHURCH ONCE AGAIN IS AIDING THE MULSUMS??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
This means I have to where my Boots what a shame??

I just bought some pretty heels for all the parties!!

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 4:26 PM

http://www.hannity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1307245#post1307245
Time to let these places know that it pays to be Kafir Friendly
OfficeMax Customer Service
877-4THE-MAX

http://about.officemax.com/html/officemax_contact.shtml

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at December 16, 2005 4:38 PM

This amazes me, they will print all sorts of disgusting immoral things, because it means money for them and they dont worry about the moral side of it then, but they wont print something which in the long run is perhaps going to protect their own people.
It appears that we have already been sold out by companies like this, plus the media and some of our polies,... With one of the Saudi Princes owning a large share of the Murdock media, perhaps I am not to far off the mark, and people like office-Max are to scared to upset the apple cart. Well when Islam takes over they wont have to worry any more as they will be dead. I think we also have office-Max here in Australia, and if we do I sure will be warning others,, I send parts of many of these articles off to the media and our politicians, this and one or two comments, without names, is one that I will be sending.

Posted by: Gaye at December 16, 2005 4:39 PM

I Just got off the phone with them they could not care less

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at December 16, 2005 4:45 PM

In OfficeMax's defense, let me say that every time I have had to print an out-of-print or on-line only edition of some masterpiece about islam (the last one was Andre Servier's "Islam and the Psychology of the Musulman", Anwar Shaikh's works, etc.), OfficeMax has always come through for me.

I know that they did not know what was on the floppy disks that I was handing them and simply filled my request for one three-hole punch, double-sided copy of the word or pdf file I needed.

I suspect jsla is right in suggesting that TES' card was mistaken for a pro-jihad literature.

Posted by: 3812Michelle at December 16, 2005 4:55 PM

This reminds me of the Mariott fiasco of a few days ago. Just a thought but couldn't J/W sell similar business cards for us to order like the bumper stickers?

Posted by: dms at December 16, 2005 4:57 PM

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/16/fsbqaida.shtml
Russian Security Forces Say Top Al Qaeda Operative Killed Near Chechnya
Created: 16.12.2005
The main representative of Al Qaeda in the North Caucasus was killed in the Russian internal republic of Dagestan in November, Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) reported on Friday.

The “ideologist” of the international terrorist network, Sheikh Abu Omar Al Seyf, came to the region about 10 years ago on the orders of Osama bin Laden, the FSB’s social communication center was quoted by RIA-Novosti as saying.

“Under the cover of the international non-governmental organization Al Haramein Islamic Foundation, he organized a terrorist cell in Dagestan, Chechnya and Ingushetia,” the FSB reported. During the last few years Al Seyf was a chairman of the so-called shariah courts committee of the self-proclaimed Chechen republic of Ichkeria. He was reportedly informed of all the appointments made within the armed groups. He received and distributed all the money for terrorist activity inside Russia, the FSB report said.

The security officials claim Al Seyf took part in the planning and preparing of terrorist attacks, and extremist religious and political propaganda.

Prior to 2005 he was in Ingushetia before moving to Dagestan to organize terrorist activity in the republic, the FSB said.

OH MY SAY IT AINT SO??

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/16/chechnyaradiation.shtml
Prosecutors Investigate High Radiation Levels in Chechnya
Created: 16.12.2005
Chechen prosecutors are investigating reports of high radiation levels at a factory in the republic.

They said the radiation posed a danger to people living near it in the Chechen capital of Grozny, AP reported.

OH MY??

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/16/blaststation.shtml
Blast Reported Near Russian Nuclear Plant
Created: 16.12.2005
A small explosion near a nuclear power station in western Russian has injured three people, local media reported on Friday, but there was no radiation leak, the Reuters news agency reported.

YEA RIGHT??

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/12/16/iranantiaircraft.shtml
Iran May Buy Russian Surface-to-Air Missile Complex — Report
Created: 16.12.2005

“Helping Tehran build a power plant, Russia simply must provide security for this object, the destruction of which may cause an ecological disaster for the whole of the Middle East. That is why cooperation with Iran in the area of anti-aircraft systems will be continued,” the source said.

WONDER IF THIS DEAL IS STILL ON??

OH RUSSIA HOW CAN YOU BE SUCH DIMMIS??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
Russia you Know that the Accident with the Krist was because you sold those 3 subs to Iran??

DO NOT LET YOUR PEOPLE BE CURSE BREAK AWAY STOP BEING A DIMMI STAND AND HELP FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 5:08 PM

"And should you be an Infidel, you might want to find those lists, and to mark carefully down the names of those businesses, and give them -- well, whatever you deem appropriate, for your own wellbeing, and that of your children."

-posted above

I realize that not everyone connected with Shell or Texaco is quite an ally of the sauds, but I generally avoid Shell and Texaco gasoline stations, since the retail operations for those brands are owned partially (-- I think about 50%) by the saudis (Saudi Refining Inc. is a Saudi Aramco subsidiary):

"Motiva Enterprises LLC is an oil refining, lubricants and retail business operation owned by Shell and Saudi Refining Inc. Headquartered in Houston, Texas, we refine and market gasoline to approximately 9,400 Shell-branded and Texaco-branded gasoline stations (as of January 2005)."

http://www.motivaenterprises.com/index.cfm

Posted by: del at December 16, 2005 5:16 PM

Ispanan,

"All I see here is a Muslim saying his religion will dominate the world. What about that? Is he implying there will be a military invasion, forced conversion, what?

Military (jihad), forced conversion, yes, and you forgot imposition of dhimmitude. Return to Sura 9. Re-read. See especially 9:33.

"If it was instead a Christian who was saying Christianity will dominate the world, you wouldnt brawl so much. Just damp down your islamophobic paranoia."

Jesus did not bring down a Sura 9. He did not tell his followers to use force, at all, in spreading Christian beliefs.

The story of the Palestinian organ donor is a touching one and I've read it before. The trouble with your presentation is that this kind of generosity toward the Jews or non-Muslims generally is not advocated in the Koran. Muslims are not supposed to help the non-Muslims (28:86). This is a case of human kindness, but it goes directly against the Koran.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 16, 2005 5:25 PM

Is it possible that office max didn't know what memri or jihadwatch were and assumed they were Islamic organizations?

Posted by: scribe10 at December 16, 2005 5:26 PM

You can't print that much on business cards; and if you have artwork it is more expensive.

I have flourescent orange and green cards with a very simple message:

www.jihadwatch.org
www.dhimmiwatch.org
www.faith-freedom.org

I 'drop them' all over the place. My favorite places are convenience stores and jihadi owned gas stations. Make like a sneeze and oops! 100 cards are all over the parking lot, bathrooms, etc... I also make sure that I go inside to pay for gas, and that they have to shake my filthy infidel hands before they take my money... all the while maintaining eye contact.

P.S. Mine only cost $45

Posted by: Just_Linda at December 16, 2005 5:27 PM

P.S. I'm from Tampa, FL Home of Smelly Al Arian

Posted by: Just_Linda at December 16, 2005 5:28 PM

Obviously, the guy in the picture had no problem getting someone to print his religion of peace statement.

Maybe you could use his printer.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at December 16, 2005 5:36 PM

Miss Catherine (The Great) it is good to see you are still here and pounding the drum, I have been computerless for a while and have dearly missed Jihadwatch.

I believe the cards were in order and should have been printed...maybe it is a mooslem printing company who refuses to print the truth for the American people, I wonder if Office Max has a web site we can rally around and voice our complaints?

I have to disagree with you in regards to the Patriot Act Vote today...although we dearly need new laws regarding terrorism and new tools to fight the good fight this bill was very intrusive to some of us right here in America and cannot continue as originally written.

Again it was nice to see you still beating the drum and I look forward to seeing many more of your posts in the future.

Remember:"As many arrows loosed, from several directions come to one mark...so may a thousand actions once afoot end in one purpose."

Posted by: chuck at December 16, 2005 5:43 PM

Just_Linda,

"I have flourescent orange and green cards with a very simple message:"

www.jihadwatch.org
www.dhimmiwatch.org
www.faith-freedom.org

-------------------------

The faithfreedom site is all one word, no hyphen. One small error I noticed, because I actually made the same mistake one time, and using faith-freedom does not lead to the main site.

Otherwise, I like your idea of keeping it simple and clear.

Posted by: Archimedes at December 16, 2005 5:51 PM

Duh_swami, put up yer dukes! I love Catherine.

Catherine, I think all the guys love you, but ignore them. Spencer doesn't go to all the trouble every day of producing girlwatch.org just for those guys. He does it all for me. So I can watch you.

On the secondary topic of leaflets and cards, we've been at it for over 18 months, some of us having a some good experience at it, like Just Linda.

If anyone is interested in looking further at this question I'll return here tomorrow to see what we might do again.

Posted by: sonofwalker at December 16, 2005 5:52 PM

When TES finally does get the cards printed, the final product should be conveniently displayed (er dropped) on display counters in Office Max (cards make convenient manual & catalog bookmarks) and don't forget the parking lot.

Office Max 'may' have tried to stop the message but there are growing numbers of enterprising antijihad warriors (watchfulEye, JustLinda, SoW, balticwaves etc.) who show how easy it is to circumvent such petty obstacles.

Posted by: justamomof4 at December 16, 2005 6:00 PM

I love Catherine too, I read her signature and it puts a smile on my face.....Squirrel hunter? Spider killer? I don't get it but I love it.

Okay, so "Office crap" won't do it obviously because they have Jihadis working in their printing section, well there goes A-low-whore-at-the-bar (Allah-ho-Akbar).

And Lulu was also asking where she good go and get them printed. I know of a few Sikh places and a couple of hindu places that would do it without question. If you have a Hindu or Sikh friend who you know is sympathetic, ask them to help you "Hook it up".

You could also find a print shop in a Jewish sector of town, or as Archimedes mentioned, you can print them at home.

But hopefully you have some Indian non-muslim friends who you are know are sympathetic and they can help by going with you into the Asian world and get them printed, or else take them to a vietnamese or chinese printer, they'll do it.

-Cheers

Ayo Gorkhali

Posted by: Gorkhali at December 16, 2005 6:13 PM

Just linda come see me at kafirnation.com
maybe I wont be alone FEb1
http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/rally.htm

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at December 16, 2005 6:13 PM

Blushing here!!!

Welcome home Chuck May the arrows hit their mark!!

and expose the enemy!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
Have to go put up this foot!

Posted by: Catherine at December 16, 2005 6:14 PM

Have to go put up this foot!

Here in Blighty we put our feet up, both of them. It's another of those potato/tomato things. Like hunting foxes and not squirrels. But gold star to you, and I hope you get your foot up where it should be. Mine sometimes ends up in my mouth.

Posted by: Interested at December 16, 2005 6:20 PM

Ispanan...
I feel oblidged to respond since you insulted me by name.
Our point is very simple... There is a WORLD WAR- Yes, I said World War- currently ongoing between the Islamic world and the western world. There are many fronts to this war. One is Europe, where the war is a demographic one. Great nations, like France, the Netherlands and Belgium , are poised to become muslim majority by the end of the century. That is a CIVILIZATION THREATENING EVENT. You should meditate on what that means.
Another front is Israel, the birthplace of our Judeo-Christian tradition. Basically, I am sick of all the hollow arguments of the cowardly left. I simply do not care whether the "Palestians" , whose Arab "brothers" control greater that 95% of the middle east, get to form yet another backwards, third world country that supports terrorism. The Arabs already have enough terrorloving, backwards nations.And, honestly, when I saw the Paley dancing with joy on september 11, I supported total "ethnic cleansing" of them and their kind.
Another front is Iran, where the borderline mentally-ill "president" is working on a nuclear weapon. These are religious idelouges who make up one of the most dangerous regimes on earth. The ideolouges of iran having nukes is not necessarily civilization threatening, but does threaten the free world. We should IMMEADETLY ATTACK MOSLEM IRAN. Just because your nation (in typical moslem way) puts its nuclear sites under civilian areas will not prevent you form getting attacked.
And, you ass, We are not alone in hating and fighting against islam- The Hindu, the Jew, the Seikh, the Christian faith... all of these truly great religions hav at some time in their history been DEFINED by their struggle against the moslem.
My name , templar, was taken in recognition that what began for my people on 9/11 was a world war and a crusade. IT IS A WAR THAT IS WORTH FIGHTING!!!! Our civilization is worth defending. We defend Jerusalem, Israel and we defend The Netheralnds and we defend Austraila and Pittsburgh from the Mohammedan. I have never felt that i was doing something as important as I am now.
We will defend our great civilization!!!
we will fight Islam!!!

Posted by: templar at December 16, 2005 6:25 PM

Posted by: Ispanan at December 16, 2005 02:07 PM
To sum up your post:

islam is great
islam is good
allah akbar
we're misunderstood

Now... BITE ME, AKBAR

Posted by: Just_Linda at December 16, 2005 6:34 PM

Now, what was that all about?

Posted by: XRDC at December 16, 2005 7:09 PM

Oh my sincere apologies.. I Think I copied/psted the entire thread. Glad I'm not one of them muslim chicks.. I'd be Black n Blue by now. Oh well, I look like chit in a burqua anyway.

Again, my apologies.

Posted by: Just_Linda at December 16, 2005 7:14 PM

I agree that Tes's card layout might have been misunderstood by the printer, leading to rejection.

In any event, it seems unacceptable for Office Max to offer printing services and then reneg, even if their printer refused. I WOULD HAVE reminded them that I didn't go to "the printer", that I went to Office Max; that Office Max said they'd print my cards and I paid them money to do so, so we have a contract. I'd tell Office Max to find another printer. I don't like it when OTHER PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS become my problem.

Tes, forgive me, but may I make a suggestion?

I LIKE PICTURE your card shows. It is a picture that truly is worth a thousand words. I agree maybe another textual "hint" needs to be added to the card to give a better idea of the reason for the card.

AND, I'd like to see the following phrase used and used often:

"ISLAM DOES NOT MEAN PEACE - IT LITERALLY MEANS SUBMISSION"

The complacent masses and those who subscribe to moral relativism need to know this.

Posted by: Jim at December 16, 2005 7:25 PM

Catherine: duh_swami, sonofwalker, Gorkhali... Guess I'll have to get in line...

Seriously but OT, where do you buy your ammo? Check out the prices at http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=20224&category=Centerfire+Rifle+Ammunition&dept%5Fname=Wolf&mscssid=2KX3WXA3NLF98PTTWN2FNVBQVPQ1DD70.

They have great deals on '06, .223 and 7.62x39. The cheaper brands are usually Berdan primed but are non-corrosive. Much of it is cheaper than I can make / handload it.

Hope your foot is better soon!! I really enjoy your posts!

Den

Posted by: Den_Man at December 16, 2005 8:26 PM

Makes you wonder how much of Office Max is owned by Muslims. Next time go to the UPS store.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at December 16, 2005 10:21 PM

Tes, bravo, may I borrow your design?

It is excellent! a truthful thought provoking image and a lead to those that have the authority to give us the answers.

I would like to print several thousand and leave them all over New York.

Posted by: El Cid at December 16, 2005 10:46 PM

I would like to us...

Hear the truth about Islam?

Religion of peace or Terrorist creator?

Get answers

JIHADWATCH.ORG

PEOPLESTRUTHFORUM.COM

WND.COM

MEMRITV.ORG

AMERICANCONGRESSFOR TRUTH.COM

I would also borrow Tes's image

Posted by: El Cid at December 16, 2005 11:00 PM

Find out the price to have kinkos do it and then send it to me where I will get you 30% off.

Posted by: Avatar at December 16, 2005 11:02 PM

A few years ago (still post-911), I used to go to an alternative copy place that was cheaper than Kinko's etc., staffed by young Muslims. I remember I was doing a favor for my sister, posting her pic for a website. Being computer-illiterate, I asked one of the Muslim clerks to help me out. When he got to the point of opening up my sister's pic -- she's an attractive blonde and in the pic she's sitting back (clothed, I hasten to add) in a chair with a cat on her lap -- the Muslim clerk seemed uncomfortable and looked away from the pic.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 16, 2005 11:22 PM

Exactly right GoodKarma :)

I was going to say the same thing earlier but thought I must have been missing something.

It is VERY possible Office Max is a very patriotic
U.S. company :)

Posted by: Mike_W at December 17, 2005 7:33 AM

TES -
Yes, someone who didn't understand you message, could have incorrectly construed that your cards were being "Pro-Jihad", and the printer thought you were supporting terror groups and was afraid to get in trouble with DHS by doing your cards.

Also -
The focus of this site is JihadWatch.
That is not the same as "IslamWatch".

The focus is on educating on Jihad.
If we are not focused on Jihad, the actions of extremists, radicals, and the need to reform Islam to discourage and prevent Jihad, but instead on only attacking Islam in general... that does not help those fighting Jihad.
That approach only gives those who would defend Jihadists ammunition to argue charges of racism and bigotry.
I think that is why it is important that messages of those fighting Jihad need to be absolutely clear in every case. Unclear messages could be very counterproductive.

The Nazis have a web site "JewWatch" which is dedicated to attacking Judaism simply because of individuals' religion. That type of religious hatred is not what fighting Jihad is about.

What fighting Jihad is about is educating others on the dangers of those who seek to use Jihad terrorism to create a global caliphate.
That is the focus of JihadWatch - and it is a key and very important distinction, at least that is what I read in the mission statement posted here.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at December 17, 2005 7:51 AM

Find a Jewish or Indian printer.

Posted by: apostate_islam at December 17, 2005 8:55 AM

Apologies if someone already posted this and I missed it..

Skip Office Max and Dhimmi-Printers and get your business cards printed right off the Internet. Some of the sites like "Vistaprint" allow you to design the card right there on your computer, add your own text, add graphics, select the paper stock, and preview the entire result before ordering. Then, you select how many cards you want and a payment method and a box of your cards shows up inside your mailbox a week later.

Also, it's a great idea of spending a few bucks to have cards printed which warn our fellow citizens of the dangers of islam and leaving them at various places or handing them out to people. Great way to get the word out. Hey.. it worked for the Moonies for years.

I'm going to think about my own cards now. Thanks for the great idea.

Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal at December 17, 2005 10:07 AM

Well I read poor Ispanan's post and cried in my Cheerios. What gracious benefactors, the sons of Ishmael!

I don't expect he/she will grace us with presence to read these responses, but for those whose heart strings have been stretched, let me tell you what the Imam says about Muslim organ donation:

"Wa `Alaykum As-Salamu Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barakatuh...

Dear questioner, thanks for having confidence in us and we hope our efforts meet your expectations.

As regards donating organs or blood to a non-Muslim, we would like to quote for you the following Fatwa issued by the eminent Muslim scholar, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi on this issue; it reads:

'Donating an organ is like giving charity in terms of its being permissible for a Muslim or a non-Muslim. However, it is not permissible to donate an organ to a non-Muslim combatant who wages war against Muslims and a person who wages attack on Islam. By the same token, it is not permissible to donate it to an apostate as he is no more than a traitor to his religion and his people AND THUS DESERVES KILLING.

However, if there is a Muslim and a non-Muslim and both are in need of organ or blood donation, the Muslim must be given priority for Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an: “The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another.” (At-Tawbah: 71)

Here we are to make it crystal clear that a practicing Muslim takes preference to a deviant sinful one who makes use of the divine gifts given to him to disobey Allah and harm his fellow brothers."

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544408

Having worked with Muslim physicians and witnessed their erratic behavior on 9/11 (that's how WE say it here, Ispanan, 9-11!) I have a growing concern that should I arrive in an ER with a Cross around my neck, I may not receive prompt care from a Muslim physician - should he perceive me as a "combatant". Ispanan may think my fears are unfounded. Ispanan, you should post that assertion on the Islamonline.net website - just click on your "my favorites" button.

Posted by: Need2Know at December 17, 2005 12:56 PM

As J/W 's regular readers,posters,and Contributors,we all have a moral duty to Jehad Watch. Instead of just posting our suggestions and ideas in this site,it is better we too join hand in hand with other users of the five sites mentioned above,(not forgeting faithfreedom.org and its users),we can start an " E-Mail Chain"Messages to our friends,relatives,office co-workers,political candidates in our locality,church leaders,and members.If a single J/W member E-mails about 20/30 members,and request those members to similarly e-mail 20/30 members each,I think our purpose will be served better.

Posted by: rafia at December 17, 2005 3:12 PM

jeffreyimm,
So, you could say that no one should be anti-
Nazi, they should just be opposed to the anti
Jewish part of Nazism, and help the reformers
who want to make a better Nazism? Otherwise, we
give ammunition to those who'd call us anti
German racists?

You're bizarre. Jihad is a fundamental duty
of Muslims. I am anti Muslim. I feel no shame
about that. I am not anti Arab, or anti
Pakistani, or anti Black African. But I am most
definitey anti Islam. It is a barbarous
religion, even comparing it with all of the
others.

Posted by: American at December 17, 2005 6:51 PM

jeffreyimm,

1) islam is not a personal faith. It is a political ideology with religious trappings, based upon a personality cult. Further, it is not a benign political ideology; it is a triumphalist, hegemonist, imperialist, and misogynistic system of ideas.

2) Terrorism is merely a tactic used by jihadis or mujahid. Certainly most readers here are opposed to terrorist acts by jihadis. But most here are opposed to the idea of a global caliphate, even if it were propagated without terrorism. Beyond this or that tactic of jihad, we also oppose the essential goal of jihad and islam, the system of ideas which is encapsulated in the concept, and duty for believers, of jihad. Their essential goal is a muslim planet. It is unfortunately that simple.

Posted by: del at December 17, 2005 9:01 PM

American -
You are assuming that you know the mind, heart, and predisposition of every person who calls themselves a Muslim, regardless of their knowledge of their religion, level of practice, or position on Jihad.

I don't make that assumption, and I don't know how you can.

Nor do I believe that rational discussion can be achieved by calling people names, as you do in your previous posting.

And I believe that by responsibly debating the Jihad issue in a way that focuses on facts, details, what the threat is, and the challenges with Sharia and Qu'ranic literalism that fuels Jihadists, Americans can better learn how to defend themselves from Jihad. But responsible presentation and credibility are essential.

I don't think that name-calling, positioning ourselves as against an entire religion, will help those who are fighting against Jihad; it will only turn people off (many of whom are already complacent) and get most to stop listening to you.

If I identified myself with a position, it would be "pro-American", not anti-anything. Discussing the facts with people rationally and honestly will do much more to persuade people of the threats and dangers of Jihad than any other tactics.

Moreover, do you think that we are going to really win the war against Jihad on our own? Without ever reaching any Muslim people? That is at best naive. For example, who prevented the first Islamist Extremist suicide bomber attempt in the NYC subway system in 1997? It was an Egyptian Muslim Abdel Rahman Mosabbah.

Moreover, there are those who have acted to tried to reform Islam, such as Irshad Manji, who seek to "spearhead a new, modern formulation of Islam that will allow for peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims".

This is why the rational and productive fight against Jihad must be educational, factual, and pro-American in nature.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at December 17, 2005 9:24 PM

The Office Max I usually go to is primarily staffed by Smiths, Wilsons and Johnsons. Ditto Office Max stores I went to in two other states 2003-4/2005.

If - and I don't know the Office Max business model - but if this is a franchise arrangement rather than a conglomerate chain - the individual stores would be owned & managed independently but contractually bound to abide by practices which would not reflect negatively on the Office Max name.

Some owner/managers, afraid of their own shadows, would avoid any potentially controversial decisions for fear of jeopardizing their franchise; others, more business savvy and less timid, would accept all legal transactions.

In any event, I would not hold the Smiths, Wilsons and Johnsons accountable for decisions made by Abdul, unless it were shown that Smith, Wilson and Johnson support Abdul's positions.

But that's just me.

The cards are actually a great idea, as would be small flyers (which allow room for enough material to clearly explain the message). An 8-1/2" x 11" (letter size) page, folded to 5-1/2 x 8-1/2" makes a 4-page brochure, is quite easy to do and, copier-reproduced can be low-cost and very effective.

A really good place to distribute such items in addition to public areas, whether cards or brochures, is inside relevant books in libraries and bookstores (recipients will have shown interest in the subject by picking up the books).

Posted by: Merry Whitney at December 17, 2005 10:50 PM

jeffreyimm,

Have you ever found or heard a muslim cleric who speaks to his own constituency, positively, of Irshad Manji? Please share, if you have.

I'd like to agree with you, and I do, to some extent (e.g. a positive, factual message is more helpful when communicating with uninformed non-muslims). However, your distinction between islam and jihad is, unfortunately, wishful thinking. The idea of jihad (struggle--in whatever way is deemed best for islam and the ummah) is inseparable from the rest of islam. Opposition to their jihad necessarily includes opposition to islam. If muslims were to redefine their beliefs to exclude their essential expansionist goals, your distinction might make more sense. Right now it is a pipe-dream. The war, from a non-muslim's perspective isn't against "terrorism", nor is it against "jihad". It is against the belief system of islam, its adherents and proponents. The war (jihad) was declared by muslims against all non-muslims, except those who who have submitted, in the time of mohammed, and has continued to this day.

As for phrases like "total victory", or "winning the war", they are misleading. Absent the unacceptable use of large scale weapons of mass destruction, the conflict will be interminable -- until muslims change their beliefs. In the meantime, non-muslims need to take steps to counter muslim tactics of dawa and demographics, as much as their tactics of violence and intimidation.

The mis-description of the conflict as a "war against jihad" is a mistake -- somewhat less egregious than the mistaken description, the "war on terror".

Posted by: del at December 17, 2005 10:56 PM

Your democratic governments have starved the Iraqi people to death during 12 years with an embargo that directly caused 5000 children less than 5 years old to die each MONTH.

Don't you think there would be a "missing generation" is this were true?

I have often seen pictures of children that were supposedly starving and wondered if that was really the case since the parents always looked fine. Wouldn't a responsible parent be suffering also? Genetic inbreeding can cause illness which looks like starvation.

These sanctions would have been ignored by allies anyway.

Posted by: Borg at December 17, 2005 11:26 PM

Del -
First of all, check out who made the comments about Irshad Manji that I quoted above:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008474.php
and again at:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006218.php

Here is the problem with fighting such an important battle against Jihad and Islamist Extremism:
-- Credibility is key
-- Credibility requires focus on facts, details, specifics, and proof
-- What hurts credibility is overgeneralization, broad rhetoric, and name-calling

For anyone who knows me, it is both humorous and awkward to see such a long-term battler of Jihad here urging patience and restraint. But those who are SERIOUS about the battle must realize it is going to be a long, hard, effort. In the long battle, credibility is key to educating the public. And credibility focuses on facts, details, and specifics.

In the Christian religion, the Christian Reformation movement only required ONE Martin Luther - not a thousand, or not even a verifiable poll of significant percentage of Christians who would support such a Reformation. But there are those who would discount the possibility of reformation within Islam as well.

Perhaps I am an optimist, but as long as I can point to a handful of Muslims that are fighting against Islamist Extremism, that are fighting against Jihad, that are marching in street against Jihadism (no matter how small the march), that are openly condemning that totalitarianism of forced Sharia and Qu'ranic literalism in shaping the minds of Muslims, then I cannot condemn all Muslims.

I see some who do not want to consider such possibilities, and who want to ignore the small groups of Islamic activitists who seek refrom in Islam. In my case, I support Irshad Manji and prominently advertise her book "The Trouble with Islam" on UnitedStatesAction.com. What would ignoring or discouraging the efforts of Islamic reformists accomplish? Do we not want to encourage an Islamic leader to do lead reformation? And if we are stated as "anti-Muslim" as one poster writes above, how do we support such efforts at reform?

That is why I view the distinction of being against Jihad is so much more important, with an emphasis on facts, statistics, details, and solutions -- NOT rhetoric, generalizations, and name-calling.

There are some who also call for the isolation of all Islamic nations. This is rhetoric which is clothed in the term "strategic", but honestly tells us nothing. Just how would the Western world "crush" or "isolate" the Islamic world? As you can see, rhetoric does not take the place of serious studies of facts, details, specifics.

And it precisely the focus on facts, details, specifics, and actions that has made Robert Spencer's books on Jihad so valuable and instructional. They are not a "rant" against Islam at all. Mr. Spencer's books go down very specific issues of the history of Islam, Islamic fundamentalism, Sharia law, Qu'ranic literalism, and how Islamist extremists use these problems in Islam as the basis for Jihad.

The success of Mr. Spencer's books are that the facts provide the insight, the details tell the story. Mr. Spencer does not have to arm-wrestle the reader and beat him over the head with rhetoric, generalizations, and name-calling. He lets the facts speak for themselves. Why can't we follow that successful approach to education on Jihad?

I could likewise write a book on the Presbyterian Church USA and point to specific flaws in its governance, organizational model, etc., as to what flaws it has that has allowed 4 delegations of the PCUSA to meet with Hezbollah in the past year. On the other hand, I am also aware that there are some outraged Presbyterians (the minority for sure) that are fighting this. So I cannot condemn all Presbyterians.

Now I know that is not a fair analogy here. Presbyterians are not flying planes into buildings, threatening to take over the world, and acting as suicide bombers. It is meant as an illustrative analogy only, as to the dangers of overgeneralization and rhetoric as a weapon in fighting extremism.

The problem with using overgeneralization and rhetoric in fighting extremism, is that the uneducated can quickly lose track of just WHO is the extremist... the one being called the extremist, or the one alleging the extremism.

Credibility mandates that we clearly demonstrate the difference. The fate of our civilization and our children demands that we focus on the facts and the details. The vital importance of winning the battle against Jihad commands us to leave the rhetoric and overgeneralizations to those we are fighting (and not use such weapons ourselves). We only need the facts. The facts will be more than sufficient in this long and life-and-death battle against Jihad - that we must take seriously.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at December 18, 2005 12:30 AM

From a post about boycotting Caribou Coffee above...I saw my niece this evening and told her what I had read this morning on Jihad Watch about CC being Sharia friendly. She told me that she loves their Campfire Coffee drink, that it's her favorite winter drink and that she will stop buying it immediately because she doesn't want to support anything that promotes Sharia law.

One down, 299 million to go.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 18, 2005 1:44 AM

sheik yer'mami -
I did not compare Christianity with Islam.
Those are your words, not mine.
I was discussing the long-term strategy in fighting Jihad, not comparing the two religions.

But do you see how empty and useless rhetoric is?
You do say regarding the 1.3 billion Muslims in the world: "I'd rather have them gone..."

What a pointless comment, which actually only can help those who encourage Jihad against the West.
Rhetorical wishful thinking or generalizations does not accomplish anything at all in the fight against Jihad. Nor does it help promote those allies who are struggling to reform Islam.

I'd rather be a millionaire.
I'd rather there was world peace.
I'd rather there was no sickness and hunger.
etc., etc., etc.
Such rhetoric is really pointless, isn't it?

It is what we DO that matters.
Not what we expostualate on or what we "wish".

And this is why the fight against Jihad and Islamist Extremism must be fought with the weapons of FACTS, DETAILS, and SPECIFICS.

Bringing the rancid weapons of empty rhetoric, overgeneralizations, and name-calling in the information battle against Jihad only makes the unconvinced think *WE* are the extremists.

If you learn nothing else from the writing of Robert Spencer, you should learn this: FACTS speak louder than all the RANTS in the world.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at December 18, 2005 9:19 AM

Sheik, I love you. I really do. I always enjoy your posts. But Jeffrey has a point. We all get so frustrated here, because we know the truth and see the truth and we wonder why everyone else can't know it and see it. But I think part of the answer to fighting and eventually overcoming this deadly enemy is hammering the facts home, day in and day out, ad nauseum, never, NEVER letting up. I do, whenever I see family or friends or people who bring it up (and there seem to be a lot more of them now) I tell them the latest, and they are starting to get angry about this whole thing, which is a good sign.

I understand why we sometimes rant here, but I also get frustrated because sometimes it feels like we talk and talk but don't get anything accomplished. But spreading the word does help and I do see positive changes coming about. On the other hand I see the encroachment of Islam in our everyday life, rudeness from Islamic men that wasn't here before they came to my country. (My mama didn't bring ME up that way!) And recently a condescending exchange with a college aged Moslem boy who was waiting on me at a local store. This kid kept telling me he was on commission and that he thought I should buy ALL the things I was considering, all the while treating me with disdain. It was late and I needed those items for the next day so I didn't say anything but I did talk to a friend of mine who is a manager at this particular store and told her what took place, and she said she would be talking to him about it. I wanted to put him on the spot, call him on the carpet and give him a sound tongue thrashing. But what good would it have done? I was aware that I would have looked like the extremist if I had pitched a fit. Perhaps that is what these people bank on. This incident has really made me think, how it is I need to proceed in this fight and for right now, it is to spread the facts and not let up.

I do not agree with Jeffrey that facts, statistics and details are the main weapons we need to fight this. This is a spiritual battle and we need to fight it with spiritual weapons. The Moslems certainly understand this and they use Satanic power against us. We need to take a look at what we believe in, get our own spiritual houses in order and get on with it. If we don't, all the discussions in the world posted here will not save us.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 18, 2005 10:01 AM

"I was aware that I would have looked like the extremist if I had pitched a fit."

Precisely.

And of course I agree with you that it is a spiritual battle; that is a given in my mind. My error in assuming that as a given as being understood.

Regardless, to the larger world, many of whom may or may not be spiritual - it is vital that in the battle we have the facts to use, not clay weapons of rhetoric. That is my only point.

It is likely going to to be a long war.
Some of us may never live to see the end of this war. So we need to keep our frustration and anger in check, and continue to take the high road of facts as to the danger of Jihad.

The mountain of facts will do more to help our battle against Jihad and Islamist extremists than the wisps of rhetoric which will go in one ear and out the other to the public.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at December 18, 2005 10:35 AM

Tess,
I think you just inspired a lot of JWer's to pass out cards :)

Posted by: kevin at December 18, 2005 1:39 PM

sheik yer'mami:
You state "I firmly believe that a massive propaganda effort, exposing Islamo-fascism as a geo-political concept, a totalitarian nightmare (worse than communism) ever was, could be sufficient to bring Islam to its knees."

Has that worked over the past 4 years?
Has there ever been more information as to the threat of Islamist extremism than over the past 4 years? Globally, in every language, and 24/7?
And what has been the result?
Has it done what you think it will achieve?

Again the war against Jihad is fought on many levels, in the battlefields, in espionage, in intelligence gathering, via law enforcement, via education, and in the hearts and minds of the public. But if your point as to a massive propaganda effort alone would end Jihad, why hasn't it done so by now?

The goal is to ensure world peace, preserve our freedoms, defeat the Islamist extremists, and grow our freedoms where possible. The challenge is that some of those goals require contradictory actions. And that is why there is so much discussion on this subject.

But I do not have the optimism that you have that some massive propaganda effort is going to end the threat of Islamist extremism. I think the war against Jihad is going to be much more prolonged, and much more complicated than that.

That is why we need the serious weapons of facts, not general rhetoric, to be prepared for this