With every Moslem we let into the country, and with every American who converts to Islam, we become a little bit less free.

I don't see how the Constitution can survive intact with large numbers of Moslems present on American soil. In their considerations and writings, the Framers did not anticipate how to deal with Moslems, in other words how to deal with a large unitary antagonist subpopulation, each person therein carrying a portable theocracy within his head.

The only way to avert this disaster is to invoke Section 3, as follows:

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against
them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

Certainly, every adult devout Moslem of sound mind is by self-definition a traitor to the United States, and, as such, should be deported forthwith.

However, our national sensibility combined with the compelling fictive reality of the Moderate Moslem will see to it that this happy solution is not attempted until it is too late, that is, not until after the Moslems have bred themselves to a predominance whereby the Constitution has been at least partially retired in favor of Islamic law (Sharia).

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 17, 2005 1:19 PM

If we're in a war, we're in a war to preserve notions of human rights and dignity. We should be mindful to address threats to these rights no matter what direction they may be launched from. The people of the West find themselves between the hammer and the anvil, with pressure from the outside and manipulation within, both of which are intended to remove those hard-earned rights and the way of life that goes with them.

Democracy isn't easy. There are no short-cuts. It requires interest, vigilance, participation and responsible action. In order to be more than simple mob rule, it must also guarantee basic human rights for all. This is the difference between "Us" and "Them." Take care that the difference remains distinct.

Posted by: Chatillon at December 17, 2005 1:29 PM

To date there has not been one example of the abuse of even one civil liberty resulting from any provision of the Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act was widely approved and wisely implemented by a temporarily united government in the face of the mass torture-murders of thousands of innocent Americans, in the homeland, on 9/11.

We are at war and the stakes are much higher than preservation of a knee-jerk, theoretical devotion to some abstract, potentially fatal, libertarian ethic. Adherance to conventional standards of sanity in the application of the Patriot Act is sufficient to insure both the protection of the innocent and the prosecution of the guilty.

Nobody (except, perhaps, the moveon.org, "Bush is Hitler" crowd) credibly contends that the Patriot Act has harmed anyone but terrorists.

The Patriot Act has been used in precisely the manner in which you would expect a civilized society to employ it in wartime. It has not been abused. It would not survive abuse. To not have a Patriot Act by this stage in the war on the global jihad would be a clear symptom of suicidal, cultural madness. It protects the lives of my children. Thats good enough for me in wartime.

Time to quit being confused about who the good guys are.

Posted by: THw6kds at December 17, 2005 1:29 PM

We are faced with a terrible conundrum: how to safeguard against and wiley and unscrupulous foe that cares nothing for human rights, freedom, or the American Constitution. How do we safeguard all of the above in the light that there is doubt that this foe is manipulating our system to their advantage.

Posted by: epg at December 17, 2005 3:05 PM

Ultimately no law is or can be made idiot-proof. Someone bent on abusing the law will find a way one way or the other. What is required is a common-sensical application and in the midst of a war, denying our intelligence and security agencies information, tools and legal protections is not very common sensical. I totally second thw6kds' comments on the subject.

Posted by: voletti at December 17, 2005 3:17 PM

A society that will trade a little order for a little freedom will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Thomas Jefferson

This wise man knew what would come in day's long after he was gone so he spoke the truth, we have given up much liberty in the aftermath of 911, this is what TERRORISM is all about.

We should fight the fight head on and not succumb to the antics as we have. Why has the RICO Act not been enforced against those who have conspired against the U.S. since 911? I know personally of some of these charges against everyday citizens...Americans by birth, but why not against mooslems?

We have perfectly good laws on the books to take down Islamicists who wish our ruination so why dont we use them instead of enacting more laws and loosing our liberties?

What about good ol' Conspiracy charges? How many times have you seen these radicals charged with this since 911?

Lets keep our Liberties that our Military has so Gallanty fought for and the blood shed to preserve those rights shall not be in vain.

Posted by: chuck at December 17, 2005 3:28 PM

Those traitors ,who try block the Patriort Act Bill are not worthy tobe in America. Probably these guys are bought by the Islamists.The American public should shun,condemn ,and put to shame these guys,who are not worhty of the land's salt they eat!They should be shunned like Traitors. As 'AlarmedPig Farmer' posted above:"With every Muslim we let into this Country,and with every American,who converts to Islam,we become a little less free".How true it is. When a Muslim converts into a christian,he is to be killed immediatly. But they can convert us to Islam. What a logic!But I wonder, howcome anybody with a sound resoning mind can fall for this horrible cult!Definitely it must be either for the Arab money,or the lust to have four wives(at a time),or the 67 virgins after death,promised by Allah!

Posted by: rafia at December 17, 2005 3:39 PM

"...life, liberty, and the pursiut of happiness." from the declaration of independence.

Notice that liberty comes after life. For without life, there can be no liberty. Civil liberties mean nothing to those who have suffered from terrorism.

On a related note regarding the recent bill that deals with the use of agressive interrogation and torture, I could not help but be stunned by the comment made by Senator McCain that the MSM played over and over. He stated something to the effect that "now the world will know that we are not like the terrorists" (as a result of his bill being passed). Excuse me Senator, but shouldn't the world already know that we are not "like the terrorists".

Regrettably, Senator McCain is sliding into the moral equivalency fog. This happens when confused people equate democracy with tyranny. It happened during the cold war with communism, and it is happening again in the war on jihadism.

If a police officer shoots a bank robber while robbing a bank, that does not make the police officer "just like the bank robber" because the bank robber is engaged in unlawful activities. In WWII the Nazis bombed the allies and the allies bombed the nazis. That does not make the allies actions "just like" the nazis because democracy is not the equivalent of facism.

A similar rationale can be made with the war on terror. Even if torture is used against terrorists (even that is doubtful) that does not make us just like the them because they are promoting jihadist tyranny. Resistance to militant islam is justified.

In addition, the world that Senator McCain wishes to impress with his standards will not be impressed. Do you really think that the rabidly anti US leftists and jihadists around the world will care or change their opinions one way or another because of this bill? I would rather those that wish us harm fear us than like us. The Senator should be more concerned with saving lives than trying to placate those that are either hostile or indifferent to our plight.

Posted by: GFB at December 17, 2005 4:37 PM

"Those traitors ,who try block the Patriort Act Bill are not worthy tobe in America"

Hmmm, trouble is there were a lot of people who died for this country to keep things like the so-called "Patriot Act" from ever happening in the United States.

It is curious that a document such as this, intended for the sole purpose of shreading the Constitution of the United States, is so warmly embraced by the very people simply because it carries the romantic title "Patriot Act."

It is anything but "Patriotic" and is a cheap copy from Facist Italy hailing from WW2. Many vets are in their graves because they died on the beaches of Normandy and countless other places to preserve the Constitution -- not this nefarious piece of work that has more in common with Facist Europe than it does with Norman Rockwell's depiction of America.

Fact is -- we don't need the so-called "Patriot Act." What we need rather is a group of legislators and a President who truly believe in the very document that they swore to uphold and protect; and enforce the laws that presently exist.

The real traitors are the globalists that are in office who try to establish "democracies" when we in America are supposed to be a Republic.

The ones who rightfully deserve to swing from the gallows for treason are the ones who refuse to perform their duties under the Constituion and declare war, yet who insist on UN authority and the so-called "rule of law" as their authority to engage in nation-building activities.

The ones who truly hate America are the elected officials that put islamists in key positions in various intelligence agencies in deference to Saudi oil cash and at the expense of those who put them in office.

What we need are leaders who believe in the Constitution not as a prop or mere window dressing for the cameras; but as an immutable standard that they are bound by oath to actually and literally uphold and honor.

War is not about building nations; it is about destroying an enemy so that they can not come back in a generation or two and destroy your kids.

War is not a game -- it is life and death at the most fundemental level where those who engage have not the luxury to contemplate about higher matters such as the nobility of what ever cause they fight for or against.

You can "support the troops" but for god's sake let them not come home to a facist state where the worst forms of despotism are candy wrapped in sweet sounding political titles.

Knocking off a "high value target" over a mile away means you have damn good aim -- it doesn't mean you agree with destroying the Constituion you swore to uphold, even if the higher ups and the bar-room drunks at the VA do!

Posted by: witness at December 17, 2005 5:00 PM

Chuck:

There is no disrespecting one our most famous Americans, Thomas Jefferson, but this so so much a different world from the time of Jefferon.

I truly believe he would have comprehended the differences into today's world and made the necessary adjustments to confront this confounding and somewhat stealthy enemy and its militant ideology. In his day, the enemy stood side by side in their red coats lined up like bowling pins, and things where pretty much the same in the civil war, a heads up skirmish line, there was no electronic technology,no phones, no electricity, no missiles, no airplanes to drop bombs, no nuclear weapons, Etc, Etc. .

The inconvenience is for our security and nothing else. The average American feels no intrusion into his everyday life outside of getting on an airplane. The only ones that should be concerned are those that wish to do us harm by invading and destroy us.

Posted by: Mackie at December 17, 2005 5:01 PM

witness,
I suppose you hate FDR, HS Truman and Lincoln as well. How did the US manage to escape thier fascism?

The REAL NAZIs are the one we're fighting (or at least opposed to,)or did you notice recent comments coming from Iran and Palestine? Perhaps we should be critical of those who invoke the name of Hitler in a positve light and protect the free world from them.

Posted by: kevin at December 17, 2005 5:29 PM

Go Democrats!!! What a bunch of stupid idiots. Never mind that 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11. Let's not take a chance on violating someone's constitutional rights. In fact, you moronic Democrats, as the Islamic terrorists move forward to advance their agenda of worldwide dominance, one of these days there will be NO consitutional rights to be violated!!!

You really think that Islam is a peaceful religion? I beleive that the Dem's know exactly how much of a threat Islam is. That's not the point with the Dem's. The point very simply is, their screw Bush mentality.

Here's one for you Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, and the rest of you leftist morons:

Go ahead and look inside my pc, look at my bank accounts, and listen to my phone conversations. I, like most of my fellow Americans have nothing to hide from you. Of course, the Islamic terrorists who are in this country, have everything to hide. Imagine the headlines:

Terrorist Captured using bill supported by Democrats!! Wow, talk about re-election power. Just how stupid can the Dem's get?? That's a damn good question. Just when you think they have sunk to their lowest level, Kennedy, Pelosi, Reid, and Kerry come back again, and again to surprise the hell out of us!!!

GOP in 2006, 2008, ect.

Posted by: Code4Code6 at December 17, 2005 5:36 PM

Well Kevin:

I never met FDR, HS Truman, or Lincoln -- but I suspect I would have liked Truman on a personal level. He had the right idea of war as we can see with Hiroshima

Lincoln commanded the "Grand Old Army of the Republic" and his General Sherman had the right notion of war as he marched through the Atlanta.

I don't know what FDR would have done had he stayed in office and we'll never know why he ordered the entire Pacific fleet to move from California to a bottle-neck in the Pacific called Perl Harbor where they were sitting ducks.

I'm not sure I "hate" these men in the way that you mean them.

I do get around and I am very clear on who the NAZI's are. Perhaps America is ready for the iron fist of tyrany after all; maybe if most people feel like you do, they do not deserve the blessings of liberty.

In that case, you may be happier living in Iran where you can call sharia law the "patriot act 2." What do you care about America anyway?

It shouldn't matter to you, after all as long as you "keep your papers in order" you can pretend that the black flag of islam is really old glory changed for "the safty and protection of the children."

But keep in mind, once you let the government takes away your freedom -- kiss it good bye forever.

If that happens you nevered deserved freedom in the first place.

People like me will ALWAYS be free even if people like you hate the idea. Why? Because people like me are not afraid. People like me take risks and come away winners. When the day comes that I lose, my ashes will be scattered to the winds -- but I will remain FREE.

Enjoy your shackles -- and your "patriot-sharia" act.

Posted by: witness at December 17, 2005 5:59 PM

"It is curious that a document as this, intended for the sole purpose of shredding the constitution of the United States..." from a posting above.

It is curious that the poster of this statement would make such an extravagant statement, but in thirteen paragraphs of explanation not list a single example of what specific features of the Patriot act are "shredding the constitution".

It seems that much of the discussion surrounding this act is emotional rather than rational. Most people, myself included, really know little or nothing about what is in the act. It is thousands of pages long. Most congressman did not read it, as Michael Moore illustrated in his silly movie. I doubt that even Michael Moore read the Patriot Act himself or even knows a fraction of what is in it.

Much of the debate involves legal minutia. If we need to tweak it, lets do it. But it would appear that the broad goals of the act increase our security, so lets keep it. We have not had a single terrorist act since 9/11, as numerous potential acts have been thwarted by law enforcment with the assistance of the Patriot Act.

I would not care if the FBI knew that I bought "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam" as I would hope that this would encourage them to buy and read it themselves.

Posted by: GFB at December 17, 2005 6:16 PM

What are you talking about Witness. Can you think of any way the Patriot Act has impeded your life? Didn't think so.

Posted by: John Sobieski at December 17, 2005 6:37 PM

The so-called "War on Drugs" shredded the Fourth Amendment a long time ago. The PATRIOT Act gives the same powers to law enforcement for use against jihad / terrorism they can use to catch drug traffickers.

The roving wiretap is essential. That's merely adapting to the way people communicate in the real world. Sharing intelligence is a no-brainer also. Most of the PATRIOT Act is actually quite sensible.

Rep. Jamie Gorelick's Wall allowed 9/11, and who knows what else.

Actually reading the PATRIOT Act is helpful before spouting off about the end of the world as we know it (but not feeling fine).

Posted by: Beagle at December 17, 2005 7:49 PM

*Big G stands up and applauds GFB*

If a police officer shoots a bank robber while robbing a bank, that does not make the police officer "just like the bank robber" because the bank robber is engaged in unlawful activities. In WWII the Nazis bombed the allies and the allies bombed the nazis. That does not make the allies actions "just like" the nazis because democracy is not the equivalent of facism.

Hear, hear!

Thank you for that succint analysis.

By the same token, if we put down a rabid dog like Tookie Williams then we are not punishing murder with murder because we are not "just like" the murderer.

To paraphrase THw6kds:

It's way past time to quit being confused about who the good guys are.

Posted by: Big G In TX at December 17, 2005 9:26 PM

"What are you talking about Witness. Can you think of any way the Patriot Act has impeded your life? Didn't think so."

LOL! Oh Johnny-Boy, the Patriot Act keeps me employed in a way. I'm not the one that has to worry about it. I suppose, I should be grateful, no?

Oh yeah, I have read the damn thing; rather stodgy I might add, not the sort of thing that keeps you on the edge of your chair.

However, I suggest you take the time to actually puruse through it.

Be seeing you. All the best.

Posted by: witness at December 17, 2005 9:35 PM

I hear ya witness.

You ever read RLK?

Posted by: kentim at December 17, 2005 10:03 PM

It seems that those who criticize the Patriot Act never present one specific instance when civil rights have been violated. My civil rights have not been violated and I doubt the rights of those who post items here have been violated.

Think back to the day after 9/11. How many would have thought we would have gone this long without one additional Islamist terror attack? Answer: Zero. The success of the Patriot Act may be its own worst enemy. The longer we go without a Islamist terrorist attack, the more people drift back to the pre-9/11 attitude.

It may take one or two more horrific Islamist terrorist attacks to halt this drift and get America focused on fighting this cancer both at home and abroad.

Thank you President Bush for the Patriot Act and for authorizing the NSA to monitor people in the U.S. communicating with known terrorits abroad. Now let's start monitoring the mosques.

Posted by: kypete at December 18, 2005 6:28 AM

Mackie,

Thomas Jefferson is just one of many who thought of protecting our Liberties along the way, we do live in different times but oppression is oppression however you color it...as I stated, we have laws on the books to work this but because of Political Correctness they will not use them on terrorists or illegal immigrants.

I speak of the Rico Act or a Conspiracy charge neither of which we use on these thugs. Take a look at CAIR and some of the Mosques that have been identified with members of terrorism, sure some single charges have been filed but to charge the whole assembly has been bypassed.

Here in America we can assuradley agree to disagree on everything (so far), but when we start loosing our rights and privileges we soon will no longer agree to disagree.

Lets use the laws we have on the books to the full extent.

Posted by: chuck at December 18, 2005 9:34 AM

"Why has the RICO Act not been enforced against those who have conspired against the U.S. since 911?"
-- posted by chuck

I positited RICO as a tool in these pages months ago.

The difference with my proposal, however, is that by law and by common sense all practice of Islam on American soil would be defined as organized criminal activity, and would thus be sanctioned as the RICO law provides.

SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS SAAS

I have a dream. My dream is having every American Moslem wearing an ankle bracelet and toting a fully expunged Koran.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 18, 2005 9:35 AM

One thing I'm quite sure of, is the opposition party does not really care that much about civil rights,they only oppose it because that's their reason for being. The same goes for the war.
So what do we end up with? The Hegelian Dialectical Process.
And when a truth compromises with a lie, it is no longer a truth.
Thesis+Anti-thesis= Synthesis.
I doubt absolute truth exists,there are only probabilities. The passage of time is what ultimately "proves" a proposition. Of course, if efforts are only made to verify such and such proposition it has no basis for being believed. The true test is if it can stand up to constant attempts to refute it.

Getting a little off-topic there...

Posted by: kentim at December 18, 2005 10:17 AM

Alarmed Pig Farmer

I share your dream as well and have been posting the RICO act as well ever since I came across Roberts web-site here, I do not understand why this is not used against mooslems??? If it were to be used we could most probably include Islam in its dialouge and charge every mooslem, boy this would go a long way would it not? The Koran would used to uphold the evidence against them as everything written in it identifies the plight against us.This would be cut and dry.

Ahh yes, only in my dreams.

Posted by: chuck at December 18, 2005 10:23 AM

the senators that voted against the "Patriot Act" should be held responsible! the worse ones are the republicans, aka rino's!! people need to know who their senators are and call, fax, email them about your
disapproval. from what l know of the act, it only speeds up the process, you still need an overall review by a judge. no loss of rights, only if your a conspriring terrorist!

Posted by: Lulu at December 18, 2005 1:20 PM

The preening and posturing over measures clearly designed to make us all safer -- and the first duty of government is to insure the physical security of the governed -- by various members of the Senate disturbs.

It is possible to find one or two faults with the Patriot Act. For example, the measure that gives the government the power to find out what one is checking out of the library is

1) ineffective and as a consequence has not been used (what would a would-be terrorist do -- check out the Qur'an from the local library because he doesn't have his own copy?) but nonetheless

2) provides easy grist for the propaganda mills of opponents ("No one has the right to check on what we are reading" -- nonsense of course, because in wartime all sorts of things are permissible whatever the assorted avatars of Senator Foghorn Leghorn insist)

so that, on the whole, that particular provision might be sacrificed, in a spirit of phony compromise, in order to rescue the important provisions.

As for the outcry over monitoring emails sent abroad by people described as "American citizens" -- a bit too naively, for one can be a Muslim "citizen" and owe one's allegiance entirely to fellow Muslims, and to the Jihad. The concept of the Infidel nation-state, and the idea that one's loyalty might go to fellow-citizens who are Infidels, and especially when those Infidels are believed to be acting against Islam -- well, it's simply impossible. That matter cannot continue to be ignored, or piously dismissed.

Can those who believe in Islam, who claim to subscribe to the tenets snd worldview that naturally flow from what is contained in then Qur'an, and supplemented or explained or elaborated upon in Hadith and Sira, actually be expected to be able to offer full-throated loyalty to Infidels or Infidel political, legal, and social institutions? And mean it, and mean it permanently and not merely as a temporary measure while Islam is further establishing and attempting to root itself within the Lands of the Infidels? This requires analysis and discussion, and more analysis, and more discussion, and more attention to the nature, and origins, of the immutable canonical texts, and then study, in detail, and not merely through the invocation of pieties (that wonderful "convivencia in Islamic Spain" etcetera). Nothing but the truth, the very detailed truth, can be accepted.

Those representatives and officials who do not want to engage in that analysis and discussion, and who want to substitute those pieties, are not people who are meeting their resonsiblities toward those who have entrusted their own security to those officials and representatives.

They should leave office if the best they can do is posture, preen, assume the best and indulge in cliches, and give every sign of refusing to take the menace to the Western world, to the entire world of non-Muslims, with the seriousness, and even the anxiety, which it deserves.

No kidding around, no nonsense, no pieties, no jockeying for position, no playing to some crowd of rich and seemingly well-protected supporters -- none of that is now permissible. If it ever was.

Posted by: Hugh at December 18, 2005 2:29 PM

To those hypocritical Senators who are wringing their hands and filled with woe because the President authorized the NSA to listen in on American citizens who were conspiring with Al Qaeda.Here is the President's brilliant response. What he did was perfectly legal and in defense of the country and the American people.On the other hand the person who leaked the story committed a crime. While the NYT jeopardized national security and endangered the lives of American citizens.BTW Senators, America is watching and you will be held accountable.

________________________________

In the weeks following the terrorist attacks on our nation, I authorized the National Security Agency, consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution, to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. Before we intercept these communications, the government must have information that establishes a clear link to these terrorist networks.

This is a highly classified program that is crucial to our national security. Its purpose is to detect and prevent terrorist attacks against the United States, our friends and allies. Yesterday the existence of this secret program was revealed in media reports, after being improperly provided to news organizations. As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have, and the unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk. Revealing classified information is illegal, alerts our enemies, and endangers our country.

As the 9/11 Commission pointed out, it was clear that terrorists inside the United States were communicating with terrorists abroad before the September the 11th attacks, and the commission criticized our nation’s inability to uncover links between terrorists here at home and terrorists abroad. Two of the terrorist hijackers who flew a jet into the Pentagon, Nawaf al Hamzi and Khalid al Mihdhar, communicated while they were in the United States to other members of al Qaeda who were overseas. But we didn’t know they were here, until it was too late.

The authorization I gave the National Security Agency after September the 11th helped address that problem in a way that is fully consistent with my constitutional responsibilities and authorities. The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time. And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad.

The activities I authorized are reviewed approximately every 45 days. Each review is based on a fresh intelligence assessment of terrorist threats to the continuity of our government and the threat of catastrophic damage to our homeland. During each assessment, previous activities under the authorization are reviewed. The review includes approval by our nation’s top legal officials, including the Attorney General and the Counsel to the President. I have reauthorized this program more than 30 times since the September the 11th attacks, and I intend to do so for as long as our nation faces a continuing threat from al Qaeda and related groups.

The NSA’s activities under this authorization are thoroughly reviewed by the Justice Department and NSA’s top legal officials, including NSA’s general counsel and inspector general. Leaders in Congress have been briefed more than a dozen times on this authorization and the activities conducted under it. Intelligence officials involved in this activity also receive extensive training to ensure they perform their duties consistent with the letter and intent of the authorization.

This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists. It is critical to saving American lives. The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them and their civil liberties. And that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I’m the President of the United States.

Posted by: Roxane at December 18, 2005 3:18 PM

Ahh, I see the error of my thinking. Yes, I know now that we should vigorously enforce the Patriot Act; strengthen it; put some real teeth in it.

As George has said so often at the staff meetings everytime someone dares to mention that obsolete document call the US Constitution -- paraphrased "stop throwing the Constitution in my face - it's just a go@@amn piece of paper."

You all are right; and George is right. As for me, I remain uneffected and the paycheck rolls in as long as I do my job -- and I will indeed.

You will have your way; but when the day comes that they appoint the islamist to enforce the very Patriot Act that you so warmly embrace and crave; rejoice and be happy.

So really, why should you fight so hard against the oppression of shirah-law and islamic tyranny anyway? Perhaps you might not find it as awful to live under as you imagine? Perhaps Iran should be the model we should aspire to -- although, I think it is a good place to get out of, but I have been wrong before.

Perhaps, you will actually grow to like it? Freedom is dangerous and filled with risks. Who needs risk when there is some much security that can be had? Security offered by government but people in black suites. They surely know whats best, don't they?

Really, islamic shariah law is only a few steps down the road from the Patriot Act anyway. It too offers security from the state which knows better than the people.

Someday you may welcome the brown shirts with flowers and red-white-and-blue bunting!

The fat-faced politicians of both parties will give their welcoming speeches. You will be beaming with joy never really hearing or understanding a word they said. The bankers will still have the best wine-soaked cigars as they pat their politicans on the back and endorse both parties.

The bands will play all the old familiar patriotic songs as the jackboots stride by the reviewing stands. "Hooray for the troops" you will shout "Hooray! God Bless America!"

Then as you approach the checkpoints manned by troops with automatic weapons pointing at you, you can pride yourself on the glorious new order of things.

Never mind the fact that the funny looking officer is glaring at you and asking you in a broken accen, what the purpose and nature of your business was; after all he is wearing an American looking uniform isn't he? See how brightly the brass buttons are polished; how smart the officer looks. Indeed, be proud! The uniform sparkles.

RELAX! It's okay! Remember, it's your patriotic duty as a loyal Amercian to comply. Besides its for your safty; the safety of society; and in the best interest of the children.

And that popping noise you hear a few blocks away? Why, it must be firecrackers you tell the kids in celebration of something. Even if it was a firing squad you think to yourself, they must have done something to deserve it -- didn't they?

At least you are secure -- and that is what is important.

Posted by: witness at December 18, 2005 4:32 PM

Witness,

You'll be pleased to know that CAIR agrees with you about the Patriot Act. Of course CAIR is an islamofascist organization, so when CAIR is against something it's because it's good for America and bad for the global jihad.

Posted by: Roxane at December 18, 2005 5:06 PM

LOL! At least we agree on something. Keep the powder dry -- all the best!

Posted by: witness at December 18, 2005 5:48 PM

Witness,

Making an awful lot of leaps there aren't we? Yet I still have not heard of any abuses of the Patriot Act even in our hyper-litigious society. I think we can certainly keep the Patriot Act intact with an extension of the provisions that are going to sunset. Perhaps in two year or four year increments. When there is a change in the threats to our security then we can allow a return to the prior status of vigilence (or non-vigilence as it were).

That being said you are absolutely right regarding the lack of enforcing the current laws on the books. This is true of many issues here in America. We have laws, we don't enforce them, we have a horrible event occur do to this inaction, it gets a lot of attention, lawmakers spend massive amounts of time and money, we make new laws and rules that are even harder to understand, we put some pork in the bill and finally we go back to doing nothing with these new laws. Same old, same old.

Politics, political correctness, liberals, lobbyists = the death of our way of life.

John

Posted by: JohnnyUno at December 18, 2005 9:55 PM

Anyone who is gung-ho for the "Patriot Act" and trusting of government is ripe for servitude.
Of course the thing will help keep us "safe", but there are trade-offs for everything. The "Patriot Act", is more of an enabler for Political Correctness and globalization, and the march to the end of the nation-state and the beginning of world socialism. Why? Because it would not be "necessary" except to maintain that march.
It would make more sense to secure the borders and get a grip on immigration, and as had already been said:enforce the laws that already exist. If that is, there were not higher aspirations involved.
But hey, in a world of proliferating WMD maybe it's the only solution.

Why exactly do we need all these immigrants when we have millions of unemployed native-born here??

They call it "capitalism", but it's a fraud, it's just a word Marx invented. What we have now is Pragmatic socialism. Hehe. How else could people get rich selling inferior, defective, and worthless products?(mass-media, institutional programing/brainwashing). Or by running a company into the ground and walking away unscathed. Everybody knows if ya got enough money you can get away with anything, unless it's necessary to make an example of them to maintain the fiction that everyone suffers the consequences of their actions.

PRAGMATISM RULES. And it cannot be resisted. Pragmatism dominates reality, what you see, what you know to be true, even how society defines it's common language, can be overturned by Pragmatism-- "something is true, only if it is useful", USEFUL TO WHO,HOW, and WHY??

http://members.mountain.net/theanalyticpapers/ch243.htm

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a33b0424856.htm
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm

Posted by: kentim at December 18, 2005 11:25 PM

Ya, he sent the Navy to attack em', and the captain surrendered prematurely,then the whole crew were made into SLAVES(except for a couple converts). Then he sent more forces, and had intitiated a civil war, backing the "Bashir's" brother, eventually we had the Bashir in a corner, seeing defeat, then guess what?

We paid ransom and re-established the "tribute" payments!
(early pragmatism)

Posted by: kentim at December 19, 2005 9:01 PM