Just imagine the impossible: that is, that he was a democratically elected jewish politician in Iran, and he said the inverse of this. His life expectancy in that "civilised" stae would be measurable in hours.

The fact that he was allowed to come out with this garbage totally undermines most of what he says but he is obviously too stupid or more correctly too indoctrinated with hatred and Islamic untruth to see the irony here.

Posted by: Zathras at December 18, 2005 4:52 AM

well his Israeli citizenship to be taken from him, and sent packing the closest dictatorship! which is not that far away!

Posted by: Lulu at December 18, 2005 6:14 AM

... the MK added. ‘Leave and take your democracy with you’ Directing his speech at Israelis, Bishara said, "Return Palestine to us and take your democracy with you. We Arabs are not interested in it."

There in a nutshell is the truth about what they want. They want power, not democracy; and that from an Israeli Arab who has everything that Bush and Rice want him to have.

The hardest thing about this is to convince a Jew, or a Christian, or an atheist, that this guy is the enemy...

I doubt that this sort of news even makes it to their eyeballs.
Given the joke that the CIA is turning out to be what intel do the Powers That Be actually receive?

Posted by: Cynic at December 18, 2005 6:14 AM

The point of this is that reactionary Islam is ABOUT the denial of democracy which they find inimical to the true concepts of islam as monotously spewed forth from their mosques and any media source brainless or naive enough to print it..

The brainwashed fools do not like democracy as it allows people to ask questions which Islam is afraid to answer, eg, Muhammad's relationship with women; why "Allah" changes his mind and tune every so often; why violence seems such an inherent part of Islam; why their men seem so scared of women and female sexuality etc

This is why Islam is so much a control freak's "religion"(I use that latter term very loosely) as by keeping a tight grip upon their minds, it eliminates those embarrassing questions and thus turns the delusional mutterings of a warlord and dictator into a religion. However this also cause sintellectual and creative staganation and is why Islamic states are the poorest and most backward of states unless they have oil, in which case, they get the superficial trappings of modernity, but none of its freedoms.

What they want is a return to the 7th century and its barbarism. That alone should be a death sentence. But they also wish to do it violently and to punish their "enemies" at the same time.
You see conquering us is not enough. They wish to eliminate us and our diseases of free speech tolerance and absence of repression.

end of rant

Posted by: Zathras at December 18, 2005 7:00 AM

Then again the Western World in all its arrogance assumes that all cultures are equivalent when it comes to determining the wants, not needs, of a people.

The Arabs have been telling us for some time now what they want, just go through previous posts on Jihadwatch, but the Powers That Be have been closing their ears to the noise.
When they cannot ignore the message they find a myriad of excuses to tell us that it is not what the Arabs meant.

How much longer can we continue to let the PC machinations of a State Department conceal the fact that the culture they are so determined to "save" does not want what we want?

Posted by: Cynic at December 18, 2005 7:05 AM

And it may well be that our softness, empathy, decency and civilized views will eventually lead to our ruin. You do not negotiate or reason with cencer cells, you simply take them out. Empathize with the tumour and you die.

The hope for the new world may lie in economic freedom unmconstrained by political correctness of the diversity-multiculti variety. The core of the future resistance to jihadism will come not from the west but from China, maybe. At least, that is my hope that some part of the human population will hold out against islam and breath in GENUINE freedom for every extra day and year that is granted us...

Posted by: voletti at December 18, 2005 7:52 AM

Exactly who is dumb enough to allow this non-democrat to be elected to the Knesset?

Posted by: Kim Hartveld at December 18, 2005 8:21 AM

"Turning the other Cheek" is very admirable and brave. But it is quite pointless when the other side has an agenda or no conscience. Ask any one of the >1 million Jews shot by Einsatzgruppen members what pacifism did for them. All it does with conscienceless or hateful people is make it all so much easier to kill you.

Posted by: Zathras at December 18, 2005 8:26 AM

Oh give poor Azmi Bishara a break, willya. He's a Moslem doing his duty and that is to see democracy through to its termination, so as to be replaced by Sharia.

There are as many Moslem Democrats as there are Moderate Moslems. This big mouth example of Islam portends what will inevitably happen to George & Condi's hallucination in Iraq.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

Kudos to our corrupt MSM, our corrupt academe, and our corrupt government leaders for accepting the fictive term Palestinian. By accepting this patent fraud, they have bought into antisemitism, and have signed on as willful assistants in Islamic predominance.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 18, 2005 9:17 AM

Gosh, since we're exchanging ideas here, why don't the Israeli Arabs leave Israel and take their Islam with them?

I think that's the way this should work out.

Muslims seem to have no mercy, nor do they have any shame. Both those parts of their brains are obliterated by Islam early in life.

Posted by: Rebecca JW at December 18, 2005 10:20 AM

The Israeli Knesset should require this mohamedan to get a mandatory vascectomy. His greatest threat to Israel is not with his mouth but with his....

Posted by: GFB at December 18, 2005 10:49 AM

Azmi Bishara is a Palestinian Christian. He is not anti-democracy, just against a democracy that rules over millions without the right to vote.

Posted by: mollyh at December 18, 2005 11:04 AM

mollyh

Take your inaccurate and lame excuse for this cretin somewhere else, it will get no credence here. You seem to have fallen for the arab propaganda. Here's a different perspective that gives Israels side of the story.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2003/2/DISPUTED%20TERRITORIES-%20Forgotten%20Facts%20About%20the%20We

Posted by: William The Crusader at December 18, 2005 12:07 PM

This speech of his was given in Lebanon, not in front of the Knesset. I agree with Rebecca and thanks for the link, William

Posted by: dms at December 18, 2005 12:49 PM

The name Palestine was given to the area by conquering Romans way before the existence of Islam and the Jews where there long before that.

Posted by: Mackie at December 18, 2005 1:28 PM

William l just read the web site via your link, it was great, and l have had it bookmarked. l think by implementing Democracy on these muslim states, will help out in the long run by first keeping them busy
within their own country, and democracy can be messy to implament. Islam's teaching is counter to democracy, and when choosing it over islam, it will
weaken islam.

Posted by: Lulu at December 18, 2005 1:42 PM

"Return Palestine to us and take your democracy with you. We Arabs are not interested in it."
-- from the article above, quoting "Palestian" Arab Christian Azmi Bishara

A perfect example of the Arab Islamochristian, oblivious to what is happening to Christians all over the Muslim world, hoping that he and his kind will, if they emulate the Muslms in anti-Israel rhetoric, they will somehow be overlooked in the "first the Saturday people, then the Sunday people" Jihad. How wrong he is.

The statement above should, however, be sent to all those enthusiasts for Democracy Is On the March, not least in the White House. There is one home truth contained in the nonsense and lies: "We Arabs are not [except insofar as it can temporarily be exploited to the advantage of my sect, tribe, family -- choose one.

Posted by: Hugh at December 18, 2005 2:12 PM

Please read this article that was published in Ha'aretz, an Israeli newspaper, about democracy in Israel: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=256023&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

Robert, please change the post calling Mr. Bishara a Muslim. Thank you.

Posted by: mollyh at December 18, 2005 2:53 PM

Why does the Knesset tolerate this idiot? Are there no laws - treason, sedition and so forth? Ungrateful B-----d !!
He should have been stopped at the border and not allowed to re-enter Israel; if he is so dissatisfied living there. Why tolerate these individuals who are are 5th column inside Israel. Him being a Christian Arab makes it even worse.

Posted by: faqi at December 18, 2005 2:55 PM

Does anyone here think that it is possible that Islam is a violent religion (or one that justifies violence all too frequently) but that some groups of Muslims may have legitimate gripes? It doesn't justify the violence, of course, but our realization of Islam as violent should not blind us to all injustices visited upon Muslims or lead us to always point to them as the aggressor or guilty party in every situation. That would hardly be likely.

Posted by: mollyh at December 18, 2005 3:13 PM

Robert - mollyh is right. If this guy is an Arab Christian, then your title, describing him as a "Muslim Knesset Member", has to be corrected. The reputation of your site depends on you getting your facts right.

As an Arab Christian, we may judge his attack on Israel to be stupid or even evil, but it clearly isn't "Jihad". This site has to stay tightly focussed on the specific issue of militant Islam. No doubt this guy's opinions deserve to be examined and attacked, but not in a site about Jihad.

Posted by: georgesdelatour at December 18, 2005 5:02 PM

Millions of parasitic Muslim Arabs live in Europe and the United States but according to this Arab Knesset member no Jews can live in Israel. Many Christian Arabs have also immigrated to the West, fleeing the Islamics. This Arab also neglects to mention that half of the Israeli population is Jews who were driven from Arab nations

Posted by: dennisw at December 18, 2005 5:08 PM

"Azmi Bishara is a Palestinian Christian. He is not anti-democracy, just against a democracy that rules over millions without the right to vote."
-- from one posting above

"our realization of Islam as violent should not blind us to all injustices visited upon Muslims or lead us to always point to them as the aggressor or guilty party in every situation."
-- fro the same poster, but a different posting above

Perfect islamochristian sentiemnts perfectly expressed by someone whose deepest impulse -- support for the Lesser Jihad against Israel, and complete lack of sympathy for the plight, not to mention the legal, moral, and historic claims of the Jews to that tiny sliver of land where they were permitted, by the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine, to continue to immigrate and buy land, with no barriers supposedly to be put up by Great Britain, the mandatory authority that inherited the "waste and state lands" once controlled by the Ottoman government. And of course, for such a person, with such sentiments, it is alarming to find that people are no longer buying that carefully constructed facade of the post-1967 invention of the "Palestinian people" and the clever use of widespread ignorance to rewrite this, the first object of the present-day world-wide Jihad, until the oil money, and the millions of Muslim immigrants permitted within Infidel lands, and the exploitation of Western technology to spread among Believers the full message of Islam, permitted the Arabs and Muslims to dream even bigger dreams than eliminating the Jewish state of Israel, but to proceed all over the world.

Notice how the first quote above simply ignores the fact that the opposition to Israel did not begin with the successful capture of the West Bank, Gaza, and the Sinai in the Six-Day War. The Arabs, local and non-local (the local ones had not yet been called "Palestinians") were as oposed to Israel's existence in May 1967 as they were after the war in June, 1967; or as opposed in 1955, or 1948,or for that matter in 1938. The notion that Jews could establish, or even be working toward the establishment, of a state run by non-Arabs and non-Muslims is, will be, and must be according to Islam, absolutely impossible. See Majid Khadduri on the Law of War and Peace in Islam. See the Encyclopedia of Islam. See any authority on the subject you want. The notion that Arab opposition is based on Israeli rule "over millions without the right to vote" is nonsense. It is nonsense becuase the quarrel is really one over who will control the land, and Arab sympathy for the "Palestinian" Arabs does not extend to improving their lives --- come to think of it, they are denied the right to vote in every single Arab country in which they live in so-called "refugee camps" save for Jordan. But in Israel, before 1967, before the West Bank and Gaza and the Sinai came into Israel's possession, there were no "millions [of Arabs] denied the right to vote. "

What is particularly absurd by the pro-"Palestinian" propgagandist above is that this poster has the idiocy to think the best place to claim that the Israelis "deny the right to vote to millions" is in a posting right under an article about an Arab member of the Knesset, voted in by Arabs, for all Arab citizens of Israel of course have the right to vote. What an oversight on the propagandist's part.

As for the Arab non-citizens of Gaza, last I looked they had been under "Palestine Authority" authority, such as it laughingly is, for more than the past ten years. And the same goes for the local Arabs (a/k/a for propaganda purposes "Palestinians") for the same period. No one is denying them a vote or a say in their "Palestinian Authority" government, which has full local control -- save apparently that it simply cannot control its terrorists, which is why the Israelis continue to do that job themselves, much as they would prefer not to --- and if they feel they are not being represented adequately in the farce of the "Palestinian Authority's" famously corrupt rule (where is that $5-6 billion in Infidel jizyah-aid that disppeared when Arafat died? We, the Infidel taxpayers who had no say when our governments decided to support people who hate us and wish us Infidels ill, would like to know where that money went).

Now what about the second posting -- that Muslims sometimes have a point. Yes, a very small point. The one place where one might have been sympathetic to local Muslims is in Chechnya, given the behavior of the Soviet authorities. But whatever sympathy one might have felt one need not feel for the Chechens themselves, by allowing in Arabs who have taught them to engage in terrorist activities, and transformed their more easygoing, because less devout, brand of Islam into the real thing, then that cause too is something Infidels should not, can not, support. For at this point, any success by any Muslim group anywhere feeds into the world-wide Muslim triumphalism. Islamic groups all help, support, feed upon the success, suffer from the failures, of any or all other Islamic groups. So they must all be defeated. This does not mean that one is perfectly aware that, for example, that Muslims simply cannot bear to be ruled by non-Muslims. We understand that. We understand that whether they are in the southern parts of the Philippines or Thailand, or in Russia, or in Xinjiang, or in Europe, they will as soon as they feel able fight against, make life as miserable as they can, for local, indigenous non-Muslims. We understand, but we do not sympathize.

And we understand, and do not sympathize, when they make life hell for non-Msulims in all the areas where Muslims now rule.

And we understand, and do not sympathize, when they think they should be allowed to conduct their Da'wa campaigns uninhindered, should be allowed to exploit to their own advantage the very liberties and attitudes in the tolerant, advanced, Western societies that they would, if they could, undremine and destroy.

We understand.

For Muslims and their islamochristian sympathizers, that is the problem.

We are all, simply by reading what is easily available -- Qur'an and Hadith and Sira -- and despite the army of apologists in academic centers, and despite the pusillanimity of many politicians, we are all beginnning, and more than beginning, to understand.

Posted by: Hugh at December 18, 2005 5:39 PM

Bishara is of course of Christian origin as his name, Bishara [= gospel or good news], indicates. However, his intellectual formation is Communist. He grew up in the Communist youth group, which in Israel was mainly Arab. The Communist Party in Israel and in other developing countries supplied scholarships to many young Communists to study in Communist countries. Bishara went to East Germany where he studied German philosophy, later teaching that subject at Bir Zeit Univ., an American-funded institution near Ramallah.
"German philosophy" is his own description of what he studied in East Germany, and was inserted into his description of himself on the website of the Knesset, Israel's parliament. "German philosophy" means large doses of Kant and Hegel, and perhaps Fichte, Treitschke, Nietzsche, or Marx, and some others. All of these were Judeophobic to some extent or other, although Marx and Nietzsche were inconsistently so.
Now, Kant and Hegel, especially Kant, are profoundly Judeophobic, or contemptuous of the Jews and their capacity of being civilized or contributing to civilization. Kant had the notion that the Orient was incapable of progress, and since the Jews were Orientals [he called the German Jews, "the Palestinians who live among us"], then the Jews were incapable of progress, etc. Of course, it was the Arab/Muslims who wrecked ancient Oriental [i.e., Middle Eastern] civilization, ultimately foreclosing the possibility of progress.
Bishara, moreover, is an admirer of the Assad gang in Syria and of the Hizbullah. So what we have in Bishara is a combination of Muslim and Christian religious prejudices, plus Communist Judeophobia and the Judeophobia of German philosophy, especially of Kant. He also represents the contempt for truth of Communists, of post-modernists, and of Arab culture.
Obviously, he is a traitor and his place is in jail.
Mollyh refers us to an article in HaAretz which is an extremely tendentious newspaper and not considered reliable, except for the financial section. By the way, Bishara's brother, Marwan, works at some political institute in Paris, fattening at the trough of the French taxpayer. Marwan's appearances on French TV are exercises in the big lie technique, at which he excels like his brother and like the PLO-spokeswoman in France, one Leila Shahid. Leila and Marwan sometimes appear in tandem on French TV.

Posted by: Eliyahu at December 18, 2005 6:18 PM

Mackie points out that "palestine" was a name given to Israel by Roman conquerors. This is true but needs elaboration. The Greeks after Alexander the Great and the Romans called the Land of Israel "Judea." Provincia Iudaea was the official Roman name for the country until the Romans defeated the Bar Kokhba revolt [135 CE]. Historians generally agree that Emperor Hadrian changed the name of Judea to "Syria Palaestina" at that time [135 CE].
In suppressing the two major Jewish revolts, the Romans had Arab support. Yes, even then. Tacitus the Roman historian reports that Arab auxiliary troops --"who felt for the Jews the hatred common between neighbors"-- helped the Roman legions in the siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 CE [see Tacitus, Histories, 5:1].
This link gives more context:
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/05/arabs-helped-romans-destroy-temple.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at December 18, 2005 6:33 PM

"Return Palestine to us and take your democracy with you. We Arabs are not interested in it." The audience received the Knesset member with great applause...
Yep, return "palestine" to a pile of rocks and sand, that is all it would be if islam gets it. Destroyers, everyone of them.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 18, 2005 6:42 PM

mollyh conveniently overlooks --or may be ignorant of-- traditional Arab-Muslim oppression of Jews as dhimmis, in Israel as elsewhere in countries under Arab-Muslim control, like Yemen, Morocco, Egypt, etc. For reports of Arab-Muslim oppression of Jews in Israel, see:
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/06/karl-marx-on-treatment-of-jewish_16.html
http://www.esek.com/jerusalem/jer.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/franciscan-monk-on-persecution-of-jews.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/american-among-jews-in-hebron-1836.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/american-among-jews-in-hebron-1836_20.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/american-among-jews-in-hebron-1836.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/american-among-jews-in-hebron-part-4.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/greek-monks-account-of-1834-arab_11.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/exploiting-jews-in-jerusalem-before.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/11/muslimsarabs-exploiting-jews-in.html
The link below argues that the Jews were at the bottom of the social ladder in Arab-Muslim society.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/jews-as-ultimate-underdog-in-muslim.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at December 18, 2005 6:58 PM

It should be no surprise that the Christian Arab Bishara should begin as a Communist. Christian Arabs trying to find some means of accommodaton in an Arab Muslim sea may well find the escape hatch of Marxism attractive. For Michel Aflaq it was the fascistic-communistic Ba'ath movement, with its cells and youth groups -- but Aflaq, on his deathbed, felt he had to convert to Islam. And Ba'athism turned out beneath the surface to be mostly about Islam after all. For Bishara, as for that other Christian Arab ("Palestinian") imbued with Marxist ideas, George Habash of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Communism gave them a way to deal with the problem, that could never successfully be dealt with -- the problem, even for the most appeasement-minded, most classically dhimmitudinous Christian Arabs, of Islam, Islam, Islam.

Bishara now thinks he can, by emulating and attempting even to surpass the Muslim Arabs in expressing hatred for Israel, win a reprieve or some indulgence from the Muslims. It won't work. It never has. It will lead only to disaster for the Arab Christians, whose fate in the Middle East -- though only advanced Maronites recognize this, is tied to the fate of Israel. If it goes, they go soon after. They don't want to recognize this, for it would require them to choose between their "Arabness" and their "Christian-ness." A choice they do not wish to make. Too painful.

Posted by: Hugh at December 18, 2005 10:38 PM

What many have missed on this thread is the simple fact that a large number of the Jews in israel ARE NOT european immigrants but refugees from Muslim lands from which they have been evicted and despoiled of their worldly goods.
Furtheremore the assumption That Israel is originally a Muslim Land is fundamentally flawed.
In algeria third generation pied noir were expelled to france to avert what would have resulted in ethnic cleansing.
The same is expected in Israel. Only therei s a major difference. There is no France to run to.
And after the shameful behaviour of the Aliies (including America) to the plight of jewish refugees during WW2 , would one expect anything different today?

Posted by: chevalier de st george at December 19, 2005 1:49 AM

If there was ever a perfect example of why the Jewish State needs to expel the moslems from Israel this is it. There can be no peaceful co-existence, only death for Jews and the State of Israel at the hands of the terrorist jihadis.

Jordan is Palestine: Send them there at once.

Madzionist

Posted by: Madzionist at December 19, 2005 2:16 AM

From an email I received today,
For the UN, at least, Israel has already ceased to exist! Earlier this month, the United Nations held a “Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.” Would it surprise you to know that central to the festivities was a map of “Palestine”...with Israel literally erased from the map? The irony is that Israel has been a member of the UN for 56 years!

The map, tagged “map of Palestine” was prominently displayed between the UN flags and the PLO flag. Not only does the map have the Arabic word for “Palestine” at the top, and not only does it NOT include Israel, it does not even have the partition line sanctioned by the UN General Assembly to denote a Jewish state alongside an Arab state.

Those present were asked to stand to observe a moment of silence with the master of ceremonies offering this invitation: I invite every one present to rise and observe a minute of silence in memory of all those who have given their lives for the cause of the Palestinian people. According to one observer, “It was a moment...crafted to include the commemoration of suicide-bombers.”

PLEASE SIGN our petition to President Bush today. Ask him not to continue the policies that allow terrorist attacks against our staunchest Middle East ally, Israel.

Following that blatant disregard for Israel and the Jewish people, Iran’s fanatical new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for the state of Israel to be moved to Europe. He reiterated his October call for Israel to “be wiped off the map” by opining that the Jewish state was a “tumor.”

In Saudi Arabia for a meeting of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, the Iranian hardliner ranted: “Is it not true that European countries insist that they committed a Jewish genocide? They say Hitler burned millions of Jews in furnaces...and exiled them.”

In an interview with Iran television, Ahmadinejad stated: “Now that you believe the Jews were oppressed, why should the Palestinian Muslims have to pay the price? Why did you come to give a piece of Islamic land and the territory of the Palestinian people to them?”

Calling upon the Europeans, Ahmadinejad continued: “You oppressed them, so give a part of Europe to the Zionist regime so they can establish any government they want...So Germany and Austria, come and give one, two or any number of your provinces to the regime.”

The Iranian leader made his comments during a conference in Mecca titled: “A World without Zionists.” “The establishment of the State of Israel was an offensive move. The Islamic nation will not let its historic enemy live in its midst,” he said.

PLEASE SIGN the petition today asking President Bush to halt U.S. government policies that endanger Israel and the Jewish people.

It should not surprise you to know that Iran refuses to recognize Israel, and Iranian media frequently interview those who attempt to prove that the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust was wildly exaggerated.

And we must note that the very day Ahmadinejad made his fiery comments, a suicide bomber murdered five people in the Israeli town of Hadera. Was this foremost on the Iranian’s mind when he vowed, “There is no doubt that the new wave [of attacks] in Palestine will wipe off this stigma [Israel] from the face of the Islamic world.”

The goal of Hamas as stated in its charter is to “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” Muslim Brotherhood founder Hasan Al-Banna has stated: “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

From 1993 to 2005, Hamas has launched 113 suicide attacks against the Jewish people in Israel. It is difficult to understand why some Western politicians continue to call for Hamas to be included in the Palestinian Authority’s political process...as long as they abandon their violent tactics? Now that’s a new one...peaceful obliteration!

After you have signed the petition to President Bush, please forward it to everyone on your list. Ask them to sign it and keep it going around the world.

Your ambassador to Jerusalem,

Mike Evans

Posted by: Carolyn2 at December 19, 2005 5:24 PM