What will it take for the west to wake up and realize the nature of what we face?

Will it take a majority western democracy falling to majority of muslims in a legislature and acting as THEY ARE COMPELLED TO because of what they feel is right due to an 'immutable document'?

Will we have to see christians compelled to give way on the street?

Jewish people forbidden from building new synagogues?

Hindus treated visibly and 'correctly' as not even people of the book?

What will it take?

Posted by: epaminondas at December 20, 2005 8:00 AM

Communist support for Omar Alghabra and co.:

http://www.cpcml.ca/Tmld2005/D35109.htm

Posted by: Gary at December 20, 2005 8:13 AM

Epaminondas: You pose the question - "What will it take"?

The west is awake but are in a state of confusion. Like a deer standing in the middle of the highway in the middle of the night and caught in the headlights of the oncoming trucker. Stunned and confused as to what to do his only option is to stand still and hope he doesnt get run over.

Right now islam is that trucker and his lights are on full beam blinding all those that are in its view and the west is that deer - confused & helpless and waiting to be overun.

So .....what will it take? That is indeed the most important question of our times my friend.

Posted by: jimmy at December 20, 2005 8:22 AM

"Alghabra's victory speech was delivered to an audience of several hundred in the Coptic Christian Centre of the Church of the Virgin Mary and St. Athanasius in Mississauga."

To address the attendees in a COPTIC center with those words must have had a bone chilling effect on any Coptic christians there.

Since this was only a 'nomination' win, I hope the voters reconsider and vote otherwise in the election.

Posted by: miira at December 20, 2005 9:02 AM

Epaminondas and Jimmy,

What it will take is prayer. Plenty of prayer. And sacrifice, along the lines of fasting. Jesus said that some evil spirits can only be eradicated through prayer AND fasting. And we will have to take a long hard look at our own lives and do some weeding. We've lost sight of the mission we were sent to earth to accomplish. It's not to acquire as much stuff as we possibly can or to have the biggest house or the nicest ass. We are here to interact with people, to love God and to love our neighbor. We really could make this a peaceful place if we were willing to change ourselves. That song, "Let Peace Begin With Me", is great, but people sing it at Christmastime, slap themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for feeling so "peaceful" and then go right out and flip somebody off when they cut them off while they are driving to work. We are not consistent and unfortunately, most of us don't have a clue.

What it will take is changing our lives. We could start with humility, (although that seems to be a tall order for those of us brought up in the west) but also carry a BIG stick. We need to temper the ruthlessness that we will need to eradicate this foe with something more human, more kind and merciful so we don't turn into what we are fighting.

We did something to allow Islam to come in and take over as it is. Now me must do something else to drive it away and hopefully this time, destroy it once and for all.

And Gary,

Very interesting point about the communist support of Alghabra. If you do a google search and put in Bella Dodd's name it will bring up her book "School of Darkness" which is an awesome explanation of how communism infiltrated the US government, our school system and the Catholic seminaries. I've often thought as I pondered here that Islam and communism look a little too much like bosom buddies and who is behind both. Off the subject but just as important, the infiltration of the seminaries goes a long way to explaining about priests that sexually abuse children. Lenin knew that the biggest foe of communism was Catholicism and he knew he could never fight the Church from the outside in; it was too strong back in his day. So he ordered communists to be recruited to the seminaries. Those recruits were in high positions right as Vatican II came about and the mischief that they caused is staggering. We used to pray for the conversion of Russia after every mass on Sundays because communism was sucha threat to everything we hold dear. After Vatican II that prayer was gone, gone, gone. But I digress.

The similarities of communism and Islam are too well pronounced to be ignored. One denies God exists and oppresses the people with ruthless totalitarian terror. The other says it knows God but really honors Satan and oppresses people with ruthless totalitarian terror. It's time to honor the True God and ask for his protection against a foe that will surely destroy everything we've ever fought for or believed in. It's not too late but we've got to do it now, because everyday we delay it will take that much more courage, strength and persistence to take back the ground we are losing, slowly but surely.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 20, 2005 9:12 AM

It appears that there is no shortage of stupidity on North America when it comes to Islam. Canadians and Americans should look to Europe as cautionary example for what happens when Islam is allowed to insinuate into culture and politics.

Posted by: epg at December 20, 2005 9:22 AM

I am going to post that article as a warning around Australian blogs... we all should post it around our countries.

Posted by: meredith at December 20, 2005 9:58 AM

This just in.
"Mohammed Ali Hamadi has been paroled from prison after serving 19 years of a life sentence for the 1985 hijacking of a TWA jetliner and for killing a U.S. Navy diver, a law enforcement official said Tuesday. ... A spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, Martin Jaeger, said there was no connection between his release and that of Susanne Osthoff, a German woman released at the weekend after spending more than three weeks as a hostage in Iraq."

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/12/20/ap2404048.html

Yes, we can be very sure there is no connection.

Posted by: Jwatcher at December 20, 2005 10:04 AM

There were other "high value detainees" released as well. This kidnapping strategy is paying off big-time. I expect to see it used a lot more, now.

Posted by: Infidel33 at December 20, 2005 10:15 AM

"Paul Martin's silence since that time can only be interpreted as approval of Mr. Alghabra's rhetoric. "

"Or supine dhimmitude and fear, of course, or craven political opportunism, or both."

There's another interpretation. Not necessarily approval, nor dhimmitude, nor fear, nor opportunism: the most likely explanation for Martin's silence is simply that his PC mentality (nourished by our dominant PC culture) conditions him to find the rhetoric of Omar Alghabra utterly innocuous -- and consequently he finds the concerns of Fouad to be shrill and hysterical and amusing.

I'm not surprised this more likely interpretation is lost on Spencer, as it would on Hugh.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at December 20, 2005 10:17 AM

Or also, quite possibly: the guy ain't worth Martin's notice.

But I am willing to bet it is a combination of all three.

Isabelle~ Thanks! I understood communism's influence on other groups, which in the 50s lead to the organization of the very groups (like the Birch Society) that the Left enjoys pointing to as representing the Right, today... I hadn't thought about influence on the Church. But then it should have been obvious.

Posted by: Gary at December 20, 2005 10:35 AM

Dr Pepper nailed it. PC types can't bring themselves to look at Jihad in the eye yet. Perhaps if Al-Qaeda attacked a National Park..

Posted by: kevin at December 20, 2005 10:51 AM

"Victor Fouad, a Coptic Christian, was disturbed to hear of such Islamist rhetoric from a Liberal who could easily become a Canadian parliamentarian. Mr. Fouad assumed that Paul Martin would likewise disapprove of such incitement by a Liberal candidate, and so wrote to the Prime Minister detailing what had happened. That message was ignored. The event took place over 2 weeks ago, and Paul Martin's silence since that time can only be interpreted as approval of Mr. Alghabra's rhetoric."

Peggy Wente of the Globe and Mail was extremely prescient when she nicknamed Paul Martin "Mr. Dithers".

Posted by: waterdragon52 at December 20, 2005 11:18 AM

"What will it take for the west to wake up and realize the nature of what we face?"
-- posted by epaminondas

1) Redefinition of Islam from a religion to a political ideology.

2) Recognition that the notion of a Moderate Moslem is a literal impossibility based upon the Koran and the Sunnah.

3) Once Moslems are publicly identified as participants in a radical political ideology they must be subjugated as criminal, and eithe isolated and relegated here, or expulsed en masse off of our shores where they can isolated and targeted.

All three steps above must take place at the governmental level. Obviously, this will require reformulation of our public discourse as it currently exists in our disloyal mainstream media, disloyal academe, and disloyal CIA and State Departments.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 20, 2005 11:35 AM

Alghabra's comment will, most likely, not be given enough attention by Infidels. It will, however, be carefully watched by other Muslims, who will be much more careful not to let their real views out in such a manner. Obviously what happened is this: in a moment of triumphant joy, Alghabra let down his guard, briefly confusing the Egyptian immigant audience at the Coptic Church, both Muslim and with some Copts now doubt there to observe, as being a collection of Muslims and of loyal, i.e. dhimmi Copts who would behave in Canada as they are forced to behave as Copts do in Egypt, listening submissively, not daring to openly disagree, and certainly not reporting on anything (because in Egypt, whom could the Copts report to -- the Muslim police, the Muslim army, the Muslim government?).

But alas for Alghabra, his momentary confusion, and his triumphant and sinister and telling words, were heard by several Copts who, in Canada, are unafraid to take the measure of the Muslims whose perecution of them, over the centuries and more recently, has led Copts to find refuge and a new, freer life in Canada and the United States, in the first place. And those Copts in Canada in attendance -- Victor Fouad among them -- are less easily cowed, and determined not to let l'horreur islamique follow them to Montreal. Imagine the anguish that Maronites, and Copts, and Jews from Muslim countries, who know better than anyone what it is all about, feel in Montreal and elsewhere in Canada as they see the same monstrous threat, so familiar to them, and which they had hoped to escape from, growing in their midst, and the ordinary Canadians of European descent, simply oblivious to, or wilfully explaining away (sometimes because it so nicely coincides with the desire to stick it to the Americans, to George Bush) Muslim behavior, attitudes, words, acts.

At this point the sinister Alghabra has merely been nominated. He may lose, one hopes every sane Infidel will vote against him, and furthermore will punish those who continue to support him politically and pooh-pooh those who regard him as a menace. But his words remain. They are telling. They are not his alone. They express what Muslim political candidates all over the Western world, as they supposedly "integrate" into those Western societies, are thinking. Western governments and peoples are confusing Muslim immigrants with all others. Their problem, or the problem they pose for us, is quite diffrent from the problems that other immigrants face. It is not a question of learning the local language, of adopting to Western ideas of dress, and so on. The problem is that Islam itself insists not that Muslims mingle, and become more like Infidels, but that they not mingle at all, not befriend Christians and Jews except falsely, in order to obtain their support in order to protect Islam. It is what is in the minds of those Muslim immigrants, that the problem remains, and to teach a Moroccan better French -- at colossal cost, in a country where the education system, once that country's pride, is collapsing -- means, quite possibly, only to provide the tools to make him better able to conduct Da'wa, to demand ever more, to more plausibly defend Islam and to be part of the army, essentially of infiltration, which is now constituted, willy-nilly, by the tens of millions of Muslim immigrants now settled deep within Infidel lands. Training in languages and local mores merely allows Muslims to more effectively present their case, and to deflect criticism -- how deviously and sinisterly effective would Tariq Ramadan be, if he did not know French as a native, or did not know how, so cunningly (but the jig is now up for him, at least in France and Switzerland, so he has found a new home in England, and may yet knock on Notre Dame's door again, where Scott Appleby is loyally keeping the home fires burning).

This particular Muslim candidate may disappear. And other Muslim candidates will be much more circumspect in the future.

But the sentiments that Alghabra expressed, and what they say about how Muslims, even those "integrated" Muslims who are "working within the system" (where they are more dangerous, because more effective, than those who remain without) will remain.

Unuttered, they will remain.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2005 11:38 AM

Isabellahtecrusader,

Your words above about devotion to Christ and
renouncing shallow materialism are indeed true
words and ones that I agree with quite thoroughly.
I do however see this as a struggle that is separate
from the struggle with devout Islam. We will need to
both spread enlightenment through the west about
it's true nature, and cast off the silly word games
we play in the name of political correctness. If we
can achieve this, the battle will be fought with
the "nose of the camel" rather than having the
whole animal in our tent.

Posted by: NoMo at December 20, 2005 12:01 PM

jwatcher: Thanks for the link. What an outrage that the killer of Robbie Stetham would be released after only 17 years. It seems that the Germans are up to their old appease the terrorist tricks in i similar way that they handled the Munich Opympic tragedy.

It should be interesting to see how Steven Speilburg handles this in his new movie that is due out soon. My guess is that as a leading multiculturist he will whitewash German cooperation with the terrorists and portray the Black September thugs as killers but yet still human with a story to tell.

Posted by: GFB at December 20, 2005 12:23 PM

I am so not surprised....

Posted by: Gorkhali at December 20, 2005 12:40 PM

"It should be interesting to see how Steven Speilburg handles this in his new movie that is due out soon. My guess is that as a leading multiculturist he will whitewash German cooperation with the terrorists..."
-- posted by GFB

No, when you see the movie you will find that Spielberg whitewashes the Palestinian [sic] terrorists [sic].

If, according to liberals, it takes village to raise a child, it takes a Jew to legitimize antisemitism. Or maybe a couple of Jews.

Munich, 2005
Director: Steven Spielberg
Screenwriter: Tony Kushner

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 20, 2005 12:40 PM

Mr Fouad should send the letter to Stephen Harper so that Mr. Harper can bring it to the public light.

Posted by: Gorkhali at December 20, 2005 12:48 PM

This man simply got carried away. Eeemotion plays a big part in Islaamic life, and ofcourse it is not often that muslims win at anything so ..that's the explanation. I'm sure he was surprised & embarassed afterwards.

I'm expecting a position statement from him soon!

Posted by: Naseem at December 20, 2005 12:59 PM

"This man simply got carried away. Eeemotion plays a big part in Islaamic life, and ofcourse it is not often that muslims win at anything so..."
-- from a poster, self-identified as an Ahmadiyya "Muslim"

That's the point. He got "carried away." He was not circumspect. He expressed, in his sense of triumph, and belief that he was speaking to Muslims and those who would play along with him (he forgot that Copts, once secure in Canada or elsewhere in the West, no longer have to exhibit the classic submissivenees ordinarily demanded of them in Muslim-dominated Egypt), his real feelings. No hiding of them.

So there they are. For all to see. And that's what counts.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2005 1:10 PM

All Things Beautiful TrackBack The Clash Of The Civilizations:

"The lines are being sharply drawn between the West and its old nemesis, the World of Islam. Such demarcations reflect two distinct civilizational orders with their own specific and dynamic understandings of the nature of congruency between normative standards and social existence.

Posted by: Alexandra von Maltzan at December 20, 2005 1:35 PM

Muslims like this fellow can't resist showing their hand; they can't resist bragging and boasting about how their great "religion" is going to achieve "victory" over the kuffar. They are easily goaded into dropping the mask.

We should find better ways to use this obvious cultural trait against them.

Posted by: Suzan at December 20, 2005 1:36 PM

"Eeemotion plays a big part in Islaamic life"
-- posted by Naseem

Yeah, I'm sure devout Moslems must experience quite an adrenaline rush when sawing off an infidel's noggin'. Gnnngh! Gnnnagh!

HALAL PORK PRODUCTS FOR MOSLEMS HALAL PORK PRODUCTS FOR MOSLEMS

In addition to murder, Moslem emotionalism also frequently leads them into refreshing bursts of honesty.

This latest outburst in Canada only further proves that Islam is not a religion but is a predatory political ideology.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 20, 2005 1:37 PM

LIBERAL PARTY DESPERATE FOR MUSLIM VOTE

It has long been obvious to me that the Liberal Party of Canada is desperate for the Muslim vote. The Liberal Party has lost much credibility because of corruption throughout most of Canada. Ontario is the only province that keeps the Liberals in power, mainly because Ontarians consider the other parties as not Ontario-centered.

The key to the Liberals' success in Ontario also relies on the large immigrant communities there. In turn the immigrant communities require the Liberals to maintain a lax refugee policy which allows in thousands of fake Muslim and Sikh refugees from North Africa, the Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Punjab. Although the fake refugees bring with them corruption, religious fundamentalism, and ethnic intolerance that goes against Canadian values, the Liberal immigration policies ensure that these dishonest individuals eventually become voting citizens.

Sadly there are many signs of intolerance from the fake refugees. Since the refugee policies favor individuals who are dishonest and clever enough to lie through the refugee hearings, successful refugees are usually individuals without any moral or ethical values. Consequently they have difficulty integrating into the Canadian mainstream (although they have no need to as their respective communities are large enough to remain insular indefinitely). The refugees also discriminate against other immigrants not from their communities. For example, most Muslims and Sikhs disriminate against Christians, Jews and Hindus and most Bangladeshis discriminate against anyone who is not Bengali.

Its a sad state of affairs in Canada, thanks to the ruling Liberal party. Sadly things are likely to get worse as thousands of fake refugees continue to pour into Canada each month.

B. Isaac Kumar

Posted by: barry at December 20, 2005 1:47 PM

Hugh,

Good eye.

The man is (1) sitll only a candidate who has (2)made his true feelings known in time to (3) get the pubblic fired up about such sentiments and to (4) prevent his election.

Any Candadians out there?

Posted by: PRCS at December 20, 2005 2:01 PM

OT, but:

I find the way Hal phrases his questions to be very... curious.

NoMo and Barry~ Hello and Welcome to the site. We do indeed need to keep spreading the word.

Posted by: Gary at December 20, 2005 2:44 PM

I'm expecting a position statement from him soon!

Posted by: Naseem at December 20, 2005 12:59 PM

Another Islamic jackass with no self-control, eh Naseem? Another Islamic radical wolf posing as a sheep, yet exposed by his own uncontrollable mouth.

He should assume a position alright..

Posted by: Asylum inmate at December 20, 2005 3:32 PM

What are the rules for Recall Elections in Canada?

That would create a lot of buzz on the issue.

Posted by: Roland at December 20, 2005 4:13 PM

Maybe this is why the USA they have voted on stronger Border control??

LETS SEE what the Canadians do when they get their NEW GOVERMENT??

OH YEA the mulsums forgot about the Election that the Liberal Goverment FELL yes new elelction in Jan.!!!

Seams some are getting their panties in a twist a bit fast??

December 20, 2005

http://www.beecy.net/frank/
Foot swelling down just a little black and blue but will be ready for high heels for New Years Dancing!!!

Just thinking sence the NYTs think the American People and the Islamic terrorist want to know all??

I say is there a Geek out there who can find all the lib reporters home address and phone #s I think this is something the American People would want to know and I anit talking about po box either??
I would like to know the Home Addresses of the Libs in the Senate and Congress too!!

CALL IT FREEDOM YES FREEDOM OF INFO ACT!!

Oh rockey boy aint going to work you admitted on TV for all to see and hear??

I JUST A REMINDER AND OH YEA LOOK AT THE DATE?? 2002 IS WHEN YOU WENT TO SYRIA??

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/367wlqji.asp
The strangest episode came from an appearance by Senator Jay Rockefeller on Fox News Sunday:
WALLACE: OK. Senator Rockefeller, the president says that Democratic critics, like you, looked at pre-war intelligence and came to the same conclusion that he did. In fact, looking back at the speech that you gave in October of 2002 in which you authorized the use of force, you went further than the president ever did. Let's watch:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROCKEFELLER: I do believe that Iraq poses an imminent threat, but I also believe that after September 11th that question is increasingly outdated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Now, the president never said that Saddam Hussein was an imminent threat. As you saw, you did say that. If anyone hyped the intelligence, isn't it Jay Rockefeller?
ROCKEFELLER: No. I mean, this question is asked a thousand times and I'll be happy to answer it a thousand times. I took a trip by myself in January of 2002 to Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria, and I told each of the heads of state that it was my view that George Bush had already made up his mind to go to war against Iraq, that that was a predetermined set course which had taken shape shortly after 9/11. [emphasis added]
What was the second-ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee doing in Syria, a country which perennially finds itself among the top listings of terrorist-sponsoring nations, discussing President Bush's decision-making on the war on terror with Bashar Assad, one of the worst sponsors of terror in the months after 9/11?

A GOOD READ AND WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO PUT HIM IN JAIL???

WHO AGAIN WHO SAYS DEMOCRATS ARE NOT A DANGER TO THE SAFTY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND WHEN IS THE SENATE GOING TO FIND OUT AND EXPOSE THE LEAKER OF CLASSIFIED INFO ABOUT PRISONS?
If it is McCain put him in jail too!!!!!
Give the people open hearings on ABLE DANGER!!! Call Sandy Burger [PLEADED GUILTY TO STUFFING HIS PANTS WITH CLASSIFIED PAPERS] to testify find out what he destroyed!!!!

WHAT ARE THE DEMOCRATS TRYING TO DO MAKE THE WHOLE FIGHTING FORCES OF THE USA ACT LIKE THE NEW ORLEANS POLICE AND SAY DOING THE RIGHT THING TO PROTECT THEM AINT WORTH GOING TO JAIL FOR??

SHAME SHAME SAHME!!!!

Seams the Beligums are making their laws tougher than the laws in the USA??

COTFL!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

PS
Heard some real nasty stuff is missing from Venasuwala??
and now New Mex missing some real nasty stuff me I be listening to spansh channels see if the movement changes like it did when the Min men when to the border??

Just a little old redneck gal who LOVES HER SHORT SKRITS??

Remember w know that the palis are working with FARK??

OH WAIT A MIN BETTER NOT BECAUSE IT WILL BE AGAINST THE LAW IN ONE WEEK BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE ARE FILIBUSTERING THE PATORIT ACT??

So it is back to can't tell better do a NO police thing and J-CYOA

Me I aint going to Jail for the likes of any lib to save their ass!!! Like Reid or Leivin or Botox babes!!

next islamic terrorist caught needs to be turned over to John McCain he knows how to get the info REMEMBER IT ANIT WORTH GOING TO JAIL FOR THEM!!!

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 4:17 PM

Victor Fouad, a Coptic Christian, was disturbed to hear of such Islamist rhetoric from a Liberal who could easily become a Canadian parliamentarian. Mr. Fouad assumed that Paul Martin would likewise disapprove of such incitement by a Liberal candidate, and so wrote to the Prime Minister detailing what had happened. That message was ignored. The event took place over 2 weeks ago, and Paul Martin's silence since that time can only be interpreted as approval of Mr. Alghabra's rhetoric.

yea but this stupid guy voted for the libs!!!

HELLO LIB'D= FRENCH=COWARDS

http://media.putfile.com/French-riots
YES WE DON'T WANT TO STOP THEM BECAUSE IT WOULD PROVE WE THE LIBS WERE WRONG??

Lets' not forget??

http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html

VIDEO IN NYC OF CRAZY MULSUMS!!!

NO ALL LIB'S ARE A DANGER TO OUR WAY OF LIFE!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 4:27 PM

This is my first time posting. I spent a few tours in the middle east while in the military, and learned the truth about the "religion of peace" before 9-11. Since 9-11, I have been writing editorials to wake Americans to the truth. Initially, I felt like a voice in the wilderness, as I had to take on the multiple Muslim critics (in newspaper responses) alone. Finding Jihadwatch has been a blessing, as I know I'm not alone. I'm now finding that others are speaking out. Americans are starting to read the violence in the Koran (particularly Surah 9) and the Hadiths (like: "if he changes his Islamic religion, kill him" and other such Mohammed commands making up Sharia Law). I can also tell you that many military officers now know the truth. The truth is getting to the top. We must all continue to speak out. Despite the absolute cowardice and negligence of the MSM, our initiative will ensure our ultimate victory.

Posted by: hello123 at December 20, 2005 4:39 PM

Hello123
Congratulations on your first posting and WELCOME.
Agree we must speak out at any and every opportunity. You are certainly not alone and the truth about the DEATHCULT OF ISLAM is growing every day - take a look at the figures at those who come to Jihad Watch.
We were expecting something like this to happen in Canada : I say let Omar Alghabra expose his real aims so no sane voter will vote him into power.
Naseem Am beginning to suspect you are a Troll.

Posted by: Morgane at December 20, 2005 4:50 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/calgary/story/ca_gun_sales-20051219.html
Handgun sales on the rise
Last updated Dec 19 2005 07:28 AM MST
CBC News

Gun shop owners say handgun sales in Edmonton are skyrocketing since Prime Minister Paul Martin's promise to ban them.
The Liberal Leader made the promise a few weeks ago during a campaign stop in Toronto.

Well all is not lost after all!!

Hello glad to have you back and knowing the Truth is a good thing and many are waking up to the truth saying the truth for Polies is a hard hard balance and making sure they don't sell the USA and Friends out is a hard JOB!!

Here are a few things you can copie to show others!!

Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”

YEA LIKE THAT POOR WOMAN WHO HAD HELP-ED THE IRAQI PEOPLE FOR SO LONG??KILLED BY ISLAMIC TERRORIST??

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

SO HOW CAN WE BELIEVE YOU??

Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

AGAIN THERE IS THE TRUST FACTOR!!

Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

YOU DIDN'T COUNT ON COWBOYS DID YOU THERE IS A RIGHT AND WRONG AND KILLING PEOPLE IS WRONG!!!

Qur’an 9:113 “It is not fitting for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for the forgiveness for disbelievers, even though they be close relatives, after it is clear to them that they are the inmates of the Flaming Hell Fire.”

GUESS YOU LEFT THIS ONE OUT??

Qur’an 5:78 “Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.”

RIDE COWBOYS RIDE!!!

Ishaq:166 “‘You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from Allah, and you have said that which He did not say to you.’ The Messenger was grieved and feared Allah greatly. So Allah sent a revelation to him, consoling him and making light of the affair [of worldly bargains and Satanic indulgences]. He informed him that there had never been a prophet or messenger before who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had interjected them on Muhammad’s tongue and into his desires.”

SO MULSUMS FOLLOW THE FOLLOWER OF SATAN??

Qur’an 53:19 “Have you then seen or thought upon Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan Arabs), and considered another, the third (goddess), Manat (of the pagan deities)? What! for you sons, the male sex, and for Him, daughters, the female? Are yours the males and His the females? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!”

SO THERE IS A DIVISON??

Ishaq:91 “The Prophet explained the nature of shooting stars. ‘Allah shut off the satans by these stars which pelted them. So satans tried to steal information, listening in, mingling what they heard with conjecture and false intelligence. They conveyed it to the soothsayers.’”

SO HE WAS NOT ALL KNOWING?? IN HIS DREAMS ROTFL!!

Qur’an 72:3 “There were some foolish ones among us, who used to utter preposterous things, atrocious lies against the Lord; We Jinn [Devils] had thought that no man or jinn would ever say anything untrue about the Lord. But there were men who took shelter with the male jinn. But they (jinn) increased them in waywardness, folly, and revolt. And surely they came to think as you thought, that the Lord would not raise up any Messenger. We jinn pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with fierce guards, stern wardens and flaming fires. We used to sit there in, hidden in observatories, trying to steal a hearing; but any who listen now will find a shooting star and a flaming fire watching him, lying in wait as an ambush for him. And we Jinn know not whether harm or evil is the intended fate of all men on earth, or whether the Lord intends to give them some guidance.”

WHO ARE THE FOOLISH BUT THOSE WHO DESTROY THE WORLD zmonster[YELLOW COWARD WHO IS CURSED] ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] saddam[YELLOW COWARD FOUND IN A HLE DON'T SHOOT I'M A YELLOW COWARD]

Tabari VI:107 “Satan Cast a False Qur’an Revelation on the Messenger of Allah’s Tongue.”

OH MY!!!

Qur’an 113:3 “From the mischievous evil of Darkness as it becomes intensely dark, and from the mischief of those who practice the evil of malignant witchcraft and blowing on knots, and from the mischievous evil of the envier when he covets.”

WHO IS IT WHO COVETS BUT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST TRYING TO STEAL OTHERS LAND!!!

Qur’an 66:1 “O Prophet! Why forbid yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you? You seek to please your consorts. And Allah is Forgiving, Most Kind. Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

SO WOMEN DON'T TRUST THE MONSTERS WHO WOULD KILL YOUR CHILDREN!!

Qur’an 8:40 “If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know that Allah is your Supporter. And know that one fifth of all the booty you take belongs to Allah, and to the Messenger, and for the near relatives (of the Messenger).”

SO WE GO BACK TO THE COVET THING??

Qur’an 70:28 “Preserve their chastity except with their wives and the slave girls they possess—for which there is no blame.”

MAYBE THE REASON FOR ALL THE PHONE SEX??

Qur’an 64:14 “Believers, truly, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you: so beware of them! ... Your wealth and your children are only a trial.”

NOW WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT WOMEN AND CHILDREN??

Qur’an 64:14 “Believers, truly, among your wives and your children there are enemies for you: so beware of them! ... Your wealth and your children are only a trial.”

YEA THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT IT SAID!!!

Qur’an 8:28 “And know that your property and your children are just a temptation.”

SO THIS SAYS NOT GOOD FATHERS??

Bukhari:V4B53N374 “The Prophet said, ‘I give to the Quraysh so that they will desire Islam, for they are nearer to their life of Ignorance and it is not strong in their hearts.’”

SO LET ME GET THIS STRIEGHT BE MULSUM AND BE STUPID!!

Tabari VIII:38 “The Prophet selected for himself from among the Jewish women of the Qurayza, Rayhanah. She became his concubine. When he predeceased her, she was still in his possession. When the Messenger of Allah took her as a captive, she showed herself averse to Islam and insisted on Judaism.”

OH MY!!

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

SO WE AINT GOT TO FEED THE MULSUMS ANY MORE!!

Tabari VIII:16/Ishaq:454 “Soon the trial became great for the Muslims and fear intensified. One said, ‘Muhammad was promising us that we should eat up the treasures of Chosroes and Caesar, and now none of us even can go out to relieve himself!’”

CAUSE WE HAVE TAKEN THE FIGHT TO YOU!!

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight against those People of the Book [Christians and Jews] who do not follow what Allah and His Messenge acknowledge as the true religion (Islam), nor accept Our law, until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission.”

NO WAY IT IS WAR!!

Tabari I:232 “Gabriel brings to the sun a garment of luminosity from the light of Allah’s Throne according to the measure of the hours of the day. The garment is longer in the summer and shorter in the winter, and of intermediate length in autumn and spring. The sun puts on that garment as one of you here puts on his clothes.”

WHAT??

Tabari I:244 “Allah then created for the sun a chariot with 360 handholds from the luminosity of the light of the Throne and entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting the lower heaven with the sun and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds. Allah also entrusted 360 angels with the moon.”

WHICH NOW HAS AN AMERICAN FLAG ON IT!!!!

Ishaq:535 “The women began to cry after learning about Ja’far’s death. Disturbed, Muhammad told Abd-Rahman to silence them. When they wouldn’t stop wailing, Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Go and tell them to be quiet, and if they refuse throw dust in their mouths.’”

NOT A NICE GUY??

Qur’an 66:5 “Maybe, if he divorces you (all), Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you—submissive, faithful, obedient, adorers who worship, who travel, and are inclined to fasting—previously married or virgins.”

SO YOU THROW A LOT OF WOMEN AWAY??

Ishaq:311 “The Apostle saw Ummu’l when she was a baby crawling before his feet and said, ‘If she grows up, I will marry her.’ But he died before he was able to do so.”

NOW THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AT THE AGE OF 6YRS OLD??

Tabari VII:7 “The Prophet married Aisha in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadija. At the time she was six.”

NOW AT THE TIME HE WAS 53YRS OLD NOW IN AMERICA WE PUT PEOPLE IN JAIL WHO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS!!

Bukhari:V9B87N139-40 “Allah’s Apostle told Aisha, ‘You were shown to me twice in my dreams [a.k.a. sexual fantasies]. I beheld a man or angel carrying you in a silken cloth. He said to me, “She is yours, so uncover her.” And behold, it was you. I would then say to myself, “If this is from Allah, then it must happen.”’”

OH MY??

Tabari IX:139 “Layla approached the Prophet while his back was to the sun and clapped him on his shoulder. He asked her who it was and she replied, ‘I am the daughter of one who competes with the wind. I am Layla. I have come to offer myself to you.’ He replied, ‘I accept.’” [Layla shared her story with her parents.] “They said, ‘What a bad thing you have done! You are a self-respecting girl, but the Prophet is a womanizer.’”

OH MY!!!

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

NOT A GOOD THING AND I BELIEVE THEY DO THIS TODAY!!!

Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”

SO A WOMAN IS ONLY HALF THAT OF A MAN??

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]

SO WOMEN ARE DIRT??

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

WONDER WHAT THE NOW GANG HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS??

Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIVED BY THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 4:57 PM

This surprises anyone? The loud music blaring from most of the cars on my street is in Arabic. Probably 40% of all women who walk past my house wear hajib. My grocery store has a halal section for meat, the one I refuse to shop at has a tiny section for regular meats and sells halal as its mainstay. Canada is no longer the same country I moved to, everything has changed in 15 years.

And this still leaves us with the question of who to vote for in our upcoming federal election. Do any of the candidates 'get it'?

Posted by: libbysmom at December 20, 2005 5:15 PM

"The truth is getting to the top"

hello123, after seeing the President's press conference on Monday, I think it is. Even though he daren't say it, for fear of alienating our Turkish and Pakistani allies. And welcome to the site by the way. I come from the opposite end to your military background - i was anti war , and even participated in the London antiwar marches.

I was wrong. Dead wrong.

It's also my firm belief that in order to win this war, we have to stop traditional mud slinging - "liberal that" , "conservative this" and come up with a new terminology more suited to this war. I'm left wing, but i am vehemently opposed to Islamic ideology in all its forms.

It might be better for all of us to say "pro Islamist" or "anti Islamist" or something like that, so that it unites us in the West, both left and right.

As for that Canadian Islamist. That's only the start.

Look at what we have to put up with over here in the UK

http://www.dca.gov.uk/speeches/2005/sp051204.htm
http://www.moftak.com/gu/Speakers.asp

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 5:30 PM

hello 123 , Hearty Welcome to Jehad Watch. You have rightly pointed out at the lukeworm response the media is giving ,if you write to them about the freedom the Islamists enjoy ,in spite of their back stabing. In Canada,it is going from bad to worst. The Islamists virtually taken over the leading news medias,and papers like Toronto Star,andGlobal Mail sing the praises of Islam. Even today the Toronto Star published an editorrial"Ensure Khadar's Rights"!!.It is supporting Khadar family,which was funding the Al quida and the khadar sons who are in custody for killing American soldiers and Medics.The Canadean Government too ,is too lenient with these dangerous killers.One of the sons went to Afghanisthan to fight with the Talibans,against the US forces,and got wounded, and come to Canda for Free medical treatment. Their mother, who openly delared proudly that they are Al quida family,comes to Canada for free medical treatment,and collection of her welfare. These pests enjoy the rights and freedoms of Canada, but fight aginst the Canadian citizens .The Canadian ciizens, have to bear their expences of medical and welfare loots,by paying more taxes.

Posted by: rafia at December 20, 2005 5:31 PM

libbysmom -> looks like Canada needs an equivalent to the Pim Fortuyn party in Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pim_Fortuyn

neither right nor left , but operating on a platform of defending Western values.

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 5:43 PM

in my haste, i neglected to welcome hello123 to jihadwatch. my apologies.

welcome hello123. i look forward to your contributions.

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 5:45 PM

Morgane, Catherine, Archduke, Rafia,

Thanks for the response. I've studied this subject for years, and went from the Bernard Lewis/Tom Friedman type views to the truth. Anyone with half a bit of intelligence and an unbiased approach will see the violence, oppression and contradictions with the scripture and history of Islam. Right now, a problem is that recognizing the truth is just too scary for many to face. They will stay in denial with this question: How can 1.3 billion be so wrong (despite the ridiculous teachings of Mohammed: Judas took Jesus' place on the cross despite Roman historians and Jews backing up Jesus' crucifixion, The Jewish temple never existed, Mary was part of the trinity and sister of Moses, The Gospels are "true" by the Koran and yet Christ was considered a "Prophet" etc. etc. Historically and logically, Islam is a joke and that's without mentioning the violence).
I believe it's imperative we don't develop a defeatist attitude. Just as I felt alone (and risking my life) writing about Islam, I now realize there are over 500,000 hits a day on this site. We know the mainstream media will be cowardly and self-serving until forced to tell the truth (by the readership/viewership). With that given, nothing can stop the power of individual influence with family and friends. We need to tell our family and friends that each person can make a major difference by taking the time to tell their family and friends. One e-mail with a truthful story can be sent to 20 friends. If each of the 20 friends sends to 20 more and so on, the story can reach thousands (millions?) in days.
I guess the bottom line for us is to keep the passion about telling all we know to all the people we know. If we appear "extremist" initially, then so be it. My family and friends know me and realize I'm not going to give them bull. That I think things through. Therefore, my circle of influence has come to my understanding of the danger of Islam.
One more thought: I believe Islam will fall apart when Muslims start hearing the truth. At the present, most Muslims aren't exposed to the historical facts which bring Mohammed's teachings into ridicule. Ex-Muslims become the best weapons, because they have the passion to save their former brethren and the knowledge to make it happen. We need to find ways to get the truth to Muslims. We need to follow the Christian approach of loving Muslims (love your enemy) by boldly bringing the truth. Additionally, when enough Muslims become ex-Muslims, it will not be as dangerous for other Muslims to leave to find happiness. Let's face it, many Muslims secretly want the chains of Islam to fall off and let them free. They just can't say it. This is the key, in my opinion.

Posted by: hello123 at December 20, 2005 5:56 PM

Posted by: epaminondas

What will it take?

I believe - this is what it will take:

2Cr 10:4 The weapons[Scriptures]of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

The Scriptures have the power to destroy the god of Islam.

But we live in a society that refuses to speak them....

So brace yourselves

Posted by: Beth at December 20, 2005 6:00 PM

i agree with everything you've said hello123.

from a leftist perspective, i think this period will see the first tentative collaborates between the left in Europe with the American Christian right. Not the crazy left, but the genuine left , if you know what i mean. The left that is in trade unions imploring to high heaven about the mistreatment of Muslim women in Muslim enclaves in Europe, but just getting a "you're being racist" response. The left that abhors the fundementalism of the mosques and sees it as another manisfestation of an "opium of the people".

all i'm trying to say is that we're divided in the west - we need to unite , and confront this threat to Western civilisation head on. Once we defeat it , we can go back to argueing about civil rights, gun control , intelligent design and other matters in our usual democratic, and free way. But now, we cant afford to lose our energies on matters that divide us.

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 6:09 PM

beth -> invoking scripture just turns off the vast majority of Europeans. Myself included. It means bugger all to me.

And it means damn all to the Chinese and Japanese and all our other Asian allies too.

Just bear in mind that Islamic fundementalism wants to dominate the entire world. Lets start making allies , ok?

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 6:13 PM

Posted by: archduke at December 20, 2005 06:13 PM

YEA BUT IT REALLY GETS THE MULSUMS PISSED !!!

Better understand your enemy if you wantr to fight them??

They call the Christians and the Jews people of the book it is in pointing to the faults of their book they will understand they are not blessed by their acts of beheading people with their hands tied behind their backs or their killing of children that will get them to heaven

LEARN WHO AND WHAT YOUR ENEMIES AND HOW THEY BELIEVE CAN BE USED AGAINST THEM!!!

you may be to smart for god but that is what they believe to the islamic terrorist this is all about their religion...........................

YES WEATHER YOU WANT IT TO BE OR NOT THAT IS WHAT IT IS!!!

So back off Beth!

of go fight with your lib freinds ROTFL!!!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 6:47 PM

Hello hello123

You say "I believe Islam will fall apart when Muslims start hearing the truth. At the present, most Muslims aren't exposed to the historical facts which bring Mohammed's teachings into ridicule".

Being an Ahmaddia muslims I can tell you with honesty (if you believe me, many don't) that in fact some muslims do read material other than that written by Muslims. For example I regularly read & contribute (I hope) to the comments section here.

Did it change me...a little bit I think...not so much in my beliefs but I found that the need for debate (particularly with the infedel) is wonderful thing. A lot of Ahmadi muslims I know are extremely gentle people, who are much maligned by the dominant Sunni & Shia here in Pakistan.

The Ahmadi as far my experience shows don't have the mist that gets others to react shall we say "emotionally".

Allah's message via the prophet (pbuh) is powerful particularly when you have grown up with it. It sort of "gets integrated within your genes"....you know what I mean.

The message versions spouted here (and in the ME) seem to have a differet bias towards it (America's version particularly) ...so you end up making your own mind up on this difficult matter...but one can gain solace by praying to allah (swt) and then reinforcing it during the day....you should try it sometime.

Welcome aboard

Posted by: Naseem at December 20, 2005 6:56 PM

EVERYBODY WATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!

The REAL effect of this is that conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to commit genocide will become legal and legitimate in Canada. Because THESE things are what Islam really is. However, Canadians will discover that this is a one-way street: the Canucks will NOT possess the same rights that the Muslims community has to perpetrate crimes against the populace in the name of "religion."

The most dangerous side effect of this is that Muslims in Canada will be free to launch military and terror attacks on Americans from Canada.

Don't laugh--I think America should consider a military invasion of Canada because it is DEFINITELY POSSIBLE that something akin to that will originate from Canada and SOON!

At the very least Americans may be forced to build a massive wall sealing it off from menacing Canadian islamic terrorist-megalomaniacs.

Posted by: pythagoras at December 20, 2005 7:19 PM

Naseem,

Thanks for the comments. I spent much time in the ME talking to Muslims, so I realize some do a bit of reading outside Islamic/ME sources. Most don't and most don't even understand the darker side of Islam. That is the problem: Imams can show them Surah 9 and change their worldview of religion.
Coming from an atheist upbringing before heading overseas, I went into my studies with full open eyes to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I've got to tell you, Islam from the Koran and Hadiths and Sira (using the admitted concept of abrogation) just doesn't make sense. God would not need those created in his image to kill/terrorize/murder others in His name. Surah 9:5 and over 100 other verses in the Koran make this a clear duty. The Hadiths that say things like: "If he changes his Islamic religion, kill him" just make no sense for a religion that claims to be the "truth". Truth does not need force, violence and coersion to defend itself. If a person changes out of the "religion of truth", why would you need to kill him? If he is supposedly heading for hellfire, then why use the coersion of murder to keep others in the religion. Additionally, why prevent other religions from prosyletizing Muslim (by Mohammed's command). I mean, if Islam is the truth, why the need to prevent outside religious influences? I could go on, but you get the point.
The Koran claims (Surah 5:46-47 and 3:7) that the Gospels in Christianity are the truth. However, the Gospels make clear that Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, and He was crucified for that claim. Jesus' 11 remaining apostles (minus John) went to violent deaths claiming Jesus was the Son of God. This is all historic fact verified by Josephus, Tacitus, and Pliny the Younger (among others). The Gospels were written within 20-60 years of Jesus' crucifixion. They all verify the claim of Jesus' deity and crucifixion. Mohammed claimed that Judas took Jesus' place on the cross and Jesus claimed to be a prophet. This is just absolute historic bunk. Just like the claims about the Jewish Temple. I could go on and on, but the reason Islam does not allow prosyletizing is that it knows it cannot stand up to truth.
Naseem, you seem like a reasonable guy. Come on, see the light. Read the Koran and then the Gospels (as I have done). If you have an open mind, you cannot but see the truth. The Koran was written over 600 years after Jesus' crucifixion. Mohammed was just wrong. Historically, Logically, etc. You would be amazed at how happy ex-Muslims are once they have faced the truth. It is like the chains are gone. They can't believe they were so brainwashed. See the light.
Either way, have a Merry Christmas.

Posted by: hello123 at December 20, 2005 7:28 PM

Naseem,

I suppose the posting on this website is your own tiny form of waging jihad against the "infidel." Perhaps your scoring points with God by combating the reasonable and valid criticisms of concerned Americans, who unlike yourself, are willing to defend the values of their country.

"gets integrated in your genes!?!?" HA. I think you mean totally poisons your heart and prevents you from living a normal, civilized life.

Quit abusing our freedoms..

Posted by: ChinCheck at December 20, 2005 7:33 PM

No, Naseem's postings are valuable. They offer an example, an example of the most "moderate" of Muslims, a woman and a follower of the Ahmadiyya sect, themselves subject to discrimination and persecution from other, more orthodox Muslims -- persecution that derives from their being considered not Muslims at all.

So let Naseem's postings remain as an example of the very best one can expect.

And draw your own conclusions.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2005 7:36 PM

Yea nasseem like the new video of a man tied up while the mulsums kill him this is aways a haeart warmer??

and if any mulsums were to leave his faith and quit to have a gang of mulsums into the town square and behead him and rip the rest of the body apart does have it's down trun on who to trust??

my favorite verse is real easy and to put what is happaning today in the mulsum world makes that 1.3 billion just a bit smaller and we have not even talked about the 4million killed since 1998 in africa so it is no longer 1.3 billion looking maybe under 1 billion and we aint even talkin about those who have coverted in secreat to become Christians no it is lookin more like millions not billions??

Luke 11:17 – 11:23 But he know their thoughts said: Every kingdom divided against its self is brought to desolation, and a house divided against a house falls. If Satan also is divided against himself how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub by whom do you sons cast them out?? Therefore They will be your Judges. But I cast out demons with the finger of God surly the Kingdom of God has come upon you. When a Strong Man Fully armed guards his own place, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him taken from him all his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoils.
Luke 11:23 He who is not with me is against me and he who does not gather with me scatters.

: 22:27 For I say to you that this which is written must be accomplished in me and he was numbered whit the transgressors for the things concerning me have an end

YES WE WILL WIN THIS FIGHT IF WE FIGHT IT!!

Luke 22:35
And he said to them when I sent you without moneybag, knapsack and sandals did you lake anything: so they said Nothing then he said to them But now who has a moneybag let him take it and likewise a knapsack and he who has no sword let him sell his garments and buy one:

ME I AGREE!!

FROM THE QURAN WHICH PROVES ??

Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says

He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

Yes he has chosen the USA!!
TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]

And let’s look at another part?

The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,

Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?

There will be no more warnings?

Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??

And now Locus in Egypt

NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??

Kazakhstan Blast in mine??

Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??

Earthquake in Algeria??

The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.

YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??

What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??

The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??

Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/

Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??
We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??

And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??

January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??
Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in
Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??
January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??

AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs

Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.

NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??

May 29,2005 Indonesia mulsums kill Christians in a Market try to blow up a church?? 22 dead 40 injured?

May 30,2005 an Earthquake in Indonesia in mulsum region??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158667,00.html
5.7-Magnitude Quake Hurts 37 in Turkey
Monday, June 06, 2005

ANKARA, Turkey — An earthquake () with a preliminary magnitude of 5.7 shook southeastern Turkey () on Monday, injuring at least 37 people, officials said

I hear that extra guards have been posted on the Grapevine raisins??

AND WE CAN'T FORGET THE NOV 8th EARTHQUAKE IN THE PAKISTAN REGION THAT HAS KILLED 89,000 killed??

and now winter is moving in and over 3,000,000 homeless all mulsums

NOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU THINK BUT THAT IS A HELL OF A START??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
As for the lib's fight now about cival liberty??

LOOK at all the islamic terrorist who have been arrested and pleded guilty??

the NY gang all American??
James and his gang in Washington state all Americans??

And we can't forget the Lodi gang YES AGAIN AMERICAN??

And what about the trucker in Ohio yes again American who pleaded guilty to islamic terrorism??

Part Of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEVIED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND TOGETHER TO DESTROY THIS EVIL AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 7:51 PM

l am not surprised by paul martin's acceptance of such a thug in his party! hopefully the cooky left vote will split with the NDP,GreenParty and liberal party, and then the Conservative party can win the seat!
Here Is a Great Story:

A young man named Paul bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100.00. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day. When the farmer drove up the next day, he said "Sorry son, but l have some bad news...the donkey is on my truck, but he's dead.
Paul replied "Well then, just give me my money back". And then Paul said"OK just unload the donkey anyway". The farmer asked, "What are you gonna do with him?". Paul said, "l'm going to raffle him off". To which the farmer exclaimed, "You can't raffle off a dead donkey!". But Paul, with a big smile on his face,said sure l can, watch me. I just
wont tell anybody that he's dead". A month later the farmer met up with Paul, and asked "What happened with that dead donkey?". Paul said l raffled him off, l sold 500 tickets at two dollars
a piece, and made a profit of $698.00".
Totally amazed, the farmer asked, "Didn't anyone complain about the donkey being dead?". And Paul replied, "The only guy who found out about the donkey being dead was the raffle winner when he came up to claim his prize. So l gave him back the his $2.back plus $200 extra, which is double the the going value of a donkey, so he thought l was a great guy!". Paul grew up and eventually became the Prime Minister of Canada, and no matter
how many times he lied or how much money he stole from the Canadian voters, as long as he gave them back some of the stolen money, most of them thought he was a great guy! On Jan 23rd support organized crime-vote Liberal!

Posted by: Lulu at December 20, 2005 8:09 PM

As a Canadian I can sadly tell you all that in a few short years Canada will be, Al Canada, a part of the muslim holy lands. There is no political or cultural will to fight to protect Canada. One day Canadians will be minorities and dhimmi in their own country. Thanks leftist dhimmi useful idiots.

Posted by: SnowDawg at December 20, 2005 8:43 PM

From Archduke's post to a closet-jihadi link at 5:30pm

"For Britain to continue to be as open and as successful as we all want it to be, we need diversity at every level, in every sphere.
This is, fundamentally, about the sort of society we all want to live in. Where a society does not encourage diversity at all levels in society it loses its moral authority, and its leading edge. That means a permanent acceptance of the place of Muslims in our society. Diversity is not some nice add-on. It is vital to continued strength and enterprise. How strong a society would the UK be if it had not diversified and encouraged the participation of women both in the democratic process, and in university education in the early 20th century? What sort of society do we want?
A society that recognises and celebrates our differences. And one which encourages all in society to participate economically, democratically, culturally at all levels."

What utter rot! This empty crap about "diversity" utterly infuriates me! Who trains these closet jihadis to speak liberal "westernspeak" anyway? Who is this islamist who dares to speak of the history of the heartland of the west and what it has accomplished in terms of women's rights and then thinks he can fool anyone into imagining that if we were really and truly "tolerant" as we claim to be, then we would embrace "diversity" and permit Islam into the west? Islam. Which as every westerner with half a brain intact recognizes as the very antithesis of Diversity and Tolerance. Damn any western so-called "liberal" who needs their ego continually stroked by these poseurs, to prove to themselves that they are really and truly tolerant! The west invented liberalism as we know it. It originates in the Enlightenment, which is a direct historical outgrowth of the Judeo-Christian tradition. How dare Muslims of all people lecture westerners about "diversity" and "tolerance"! Enough!

This poseur dares to state: "Where a society does not encourage diversity at all levels in society it loses its moral authority, and its leading edge."

Sod off! How dare this poseur worship the example of Muhammad as the most perfect man - mass murderer, liar, thief, torturer, pedophile - and then presume to lecture the west about keeping it's edge in terms of it's "moral authority" - and frankly damn any westerner who is so morally bankrupt that they even give any credence whatsoever to this empty crap talk of "diversity" by folks who have no clue whatsoever about tolerance but who have obviously - OBVIOUSLY - merely mastered the "code-words" of gullible westerners who are quite self-satisfied, all wrapped up quite cozily in their morally righteous, egocentric, superficial views of themselves as "tolerant".

Makes me sick really. As it should anyone with half a brain intact.

Posted by: Caroline at December 20, 2005 10:32 PM

Sheik Yer Mami': "How could Mary be the 'sister' of Moses when he lived 3000 years + before her"?

A very good question Sheik. Clearly, this is a great puzzle to try and figure out. I will give you a prize if you can have this great contradiction solved. The laws of time and space don't matter to a naive (and stupid) Muslim believer who believes that this claim about Mary is valid.

Any rational person with a mind of ....oh...... lets say a 5 year old child will figure out the absurdity of this Muslim claim. Can a person really believe this claim about Mary while keeping a straight face? I start laughing just thinking about this rather amusing historical claim.

But you have to remember what kind of intellectual tradition you are dealing with here- the Islamic intellectual tradition. It is a intellectual tradition that is not open to criticism like the wetern religious traditions of the west. That is one of Islams greatest weknesses. The Islamic intellectual tradition is also filled with contradictions and assertions that are no way near divinely inspired.

I am amazed that there are so many dumb people in the world who fall into the trap of what Islam teaches. I guess that you have to remember that Islam meets the classical defintion of a religious cult. There is an awful lot of mind control and manipulation at work within the inner heart of Islam. Islam is a human inspired tradition, not a supernatural one.

Posted by: Johnathan at December 20, 2005 10:39 PM

NoMo,

Welcome friend. You are indeed correct about stopping the silliness of political correctness. I remember, and it wasn't too long ago, when it seemed like a silly game. But there is a whole generation now who were nursed on it and they don't even know they don't even know.

One of my staff came into the office today and was steaming mad because her grandson came home singing "We Wish You a Happy Holiday" instead of "We Wish You a Merry Christmas". She spent all evening teaching this five year old the proper song. She said her daughter, the boy's mother came in and said that if she did that he would get into trouble. And I told her, GOOD. This will make him strong and maybe he will be one of the warriors who will be raised up to fight this good fight when we are old or gone.

God bless you and Merry Christmas!

Isabel

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 20, 2005 10:41 PM

lets see what the qu-ran really says about Christians??

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 3:55 “Allah said, ‘Jesus, I will take you and raise you to Myself and rid you of the infidels (who have forged the lie that you are My son).… Those who are infidels will surely receive severe torment both in this world and the next; and none will they have as a savior for them.” [Interesting, considering...]

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.” [Another translation reads:]

Qur’an 3:55 “Behold! Allah said: ‘O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith. Then shall you all return unto me, and I will judge between you on the matters wherein you dispute.” [Another:] “(Remember) when Allah said: ‘Jesus! Lo! I am gathering you and causing you to ascend unto Me. I am cleansing you of those who disbelieve.” [A fourth reads:] “When Allah said: ‘Jesus, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve.... I will decide between you concerning that which you differed.”

NOW THAT ANIT WHAT THE MULSUMS IN THE WEST SAY SO WHO IS LIEING??

Bukhari:V4B56N814 “There was a Christian who embraced Islam and he used to write the revelations for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again he used to say: ‘Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.’”

OH YEA THIS IS RIGHT BECAUSE MO-HAM-OD COULD NOT READ OR WRITE??

Qur’an 3:54 “‘Lord, we believe in Your revelations [the Torah and Gospels] and follow this Apostle [Jesus]. Enroll us among the witnesses.’ But the Christians contrived a plot and Allah did the same; but Allah’s plot was the best.” [A third translation says that “they” refers to “disbelievers,” not the disciples and they plotted to kill Jesus.] “And they (disbelievers) plotted (to kill Isa [Jesus]) and Allah plotted too.”

BUT GOD IS ALL POWERFUL WHY WOULD HE PLOT NO GOD DOES!!

Qur’an 3:50 “(I [Isa/Jesus] have come) to attest the Torah which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path.”

NOW THE TORHA IS THE OLD TESTMENT THE 5 BOOKS OF MOSES AND IF YOU READ THE QU-RAN IT IS REALLY WAY OFF BASE!!
SO MULSUMS ARE CRUSED? I CAN SEE THAT WHEN YOU SEE HOW AND MULSUM COUNTRIES OH THE SADNESS THE HATE??

Bukhari:V4B55N658 “Allah’s Apostle said ‘How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Qur’an and not by the law of Gospel.’”

SO HERE IT IS SAYING TO GIVE UP THE TRUE BOOK AND GO FOR THE FAKE THE QU-RAN??

Bukhari:V4B55N657 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Isa (Jesus), the son of Mariam, will shortly descend amongst you Muslims and will judge mankind by the law of the Qur’an. He will break the cross and kill the swine [Jews] and there will be no Jizyah tax taken from non-Muslims. Money will be so abundant no one will accept it. So you may recite this Holy Verse: “Isa (Jesus) was just a human being before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he (Jesus) will be a witness against the Christians.”’”

AGAIN WHY DO THE MULSUMS LIE IN THE WEST??

Qur’an 3:45 “Behold, the angels said: ‘O Mariam! Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be the Messiah, Isa (Jesus), the son of Mariam, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of those nearest to Allah.”

SO WHICH IS IT WHICH IS THE LIE??

Qur’an 4.171 “O people of the Book (Christians), do not be fanatical in your faith, and say nothing but the truth about Allah. The Messiah who is Isa (Jesus), son of Mariam, was only a messenger of Allah, nothing more. He bestowed His Word on Mariam and His Spirit. So believe in Allah and say not Trinity for Allah is one Ilah (God)…far be it from His Glory to beget a son.”

SO THIS IS WHY THE MULSUMS CALL CHRISTIANS POLYTHIESTS??

Qur’an 61:14 “O Muslims! Be helpers of Allah: As Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, ‘Who will be my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?’ Said the disciples, ‘We are Allah’s helpers!’ Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious.”

IN GOD’S CAUSE TO SAVE HIS PEOPLE OF ISRAEL WHO HE SAVED FROM EGYPT?? REMEMBER JESUS WAS A JEW!!

WAKE UP PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT THEY TEACH THEIR CHILDREN!!!
The truth about what Mulsums believe??
Read and learn about the peace they bring to your door??
Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”

YES THEY STOLE LAND THAT WAS NOT THEIRS!!

Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad

YES KILLED A BLIND MAN IN HIS SLEEP??

Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”

THE BLOOD MONEY IS TO CRY NOW ABOUT THE SUICIDE BOMBERS WELL THEY ARE THE MONSTERS DO NOT CRY FOR THE KILLER CRY FOR THE VICTIM DID WE CRY FOR HITLER??

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

THIS MEANS WE CAN GIVE NO QUATER??

Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”

EXPLAINS ITS SELF

Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from any group on the part of a people (with whom you have a treaty), retaliate by breaking off (relations) with them. The infidels should not think they can bypass (Islamic law or the punishment of Allah). Surely they cannot escape.”

WHO DO YOU TRUST??

Qur’an 47:33 “Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace.”

Qur’an 9:3 “Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle.”

THIS IS WHAT THE MONSTERS ARE TEACHING THEIR CHILDREN

SO IF A MULSUM IS NOT BOUND BY A CONTRACT WE AINT EITHER KEEP THAT IN MIND WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER!!

Qur’an 9:3 “And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Pilgrimage is that Allah and His Messenger dissolve treaty obligations with the Pagans.”

WHO ARE THE PAGANS?? GUESS MULSUMS WOULD SAY LIB'S ARE ANS WELL AS HINDUS??

Qur’an 49:9 “If two parties among the Believers fall into fighting, make peace: but if one becomes aggressive, then fight against the one that transgresses until it complies.”

SO MULSUMS IN THE WEST HAVE BEEN LIEING THEY DO FIGHT AGAINST EACH OTHER LIKE WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT??

Qur’an 9:12 “If they violate their oaths and break treaties, taunting you for your Religion, then fight these specimens of faithlessness.”

AGAIN WHO ARE THE DISBELIEVERS??
THIS IS WHY THEY KILLED VAN GOGH??

.” Qur’an 4:89 “They wish that you would reject Faith, as they have, and thus be on the same footing: Do not be friends with them until they leave their homes in Allah’s Cause. But [and this is a hell of a but...] if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”

SO IF YOU ARE A MUSSI AND DO BELIEVE IN PEACE THEY WILL KILL YOU??

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]

I'M SURE THIS ONE MAKES NASSEEM FEEL REAL GOOD??

Ishaq:243 “I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!’ He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom.” [9:61] “Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey’s.’”

OH MY A DONKEY AND LOOK WHAT THEY DO TO DONKEYS??

Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”

PRETTY CLEAR TO ME!!

Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”

PRETTY CLEAR TO ME!!

Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ‘God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.’ But the Messiah only said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’

PRETTY CLEAR!!

LIKE THE CHILD WHO TRYS TO PIT THEIR PARENTS AGAINST EACH OTHER IF THE CHILD GETS WHAT IT WANTS IT WILL BREAK APART THE HOME DON'T FALL FOR CHILDS PLAY IT IS VERY CLEAR!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE HEROS PITY NOT THE COUNTRIES WHO NEED THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at December 20, 2005 10:48 PM

Wow, Miss Catherine. Insightful as usual. (How's your foot?)

Jesus didn't say to worship (Allah) Satan. If Moslems knew God they would know He has a Son. Jesus already defeated Satan, in the desert after the forty day fast and on the cross. Now it's our turn.

Your stuff is good. Where did you get your quotes? Do you have a copy of the Koran or do you study on line and if the latter, do you have a good website for it? I want to delve into it more deeply. Thanks.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 20, 2005 11:00 PM

This is a victory for Islam! Islam won! Islam Won! ... Islamic power is extending into Canadian politics".

Based on what I know about Islam, the above sounds like a dire warning.

Posted by: Jim at December 20, 2005 11:42 PM

ALARMED PIG FARMER: "Yeah, I'm sure devout Moslems must experience quite an adrenaline rush when sawing off an infidel's noggin'. Gnnngh! Gnnnagh!"

"HALAL PORK PRODUCTS FOR MOSLEMS HALAL PORK PRODUCTS FOR MOSLEMS"

I can tell that you are truly a pig farmer. Only a pig farmer would have weird thoughts such as the one you have just described.

Have you had a long work day on the farm with those piggies?

Enough bad thoughts about Muslims eating infidel's noggins!!!

How about having a beer and go to bed.

Posted by: Johnathan at December 20, 2005 11:52 PM

invoking scripture just turns off the vast majority of Europeans. Myself included. It means bugger all to me. QUOTE..

If so , take heart.

Islam should understand the the U.S., although having a christian background, is NOT a religion based society. That one fact runs through every action taken, in that everything done is weighed against other options, not based on scripture.

The U.S. fights for its own defence and freedom without need for guidance from holy books or teachings, as much to scripture being left to the one who wants and desires the word.

The U.S. fights for freedom, and will do so the instant it has to, regardless of any faith the attacker may have.

We have yet begun to fight.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at December 21, 2005 2:47 AM

A couple of weeks ago we were asked to stop the bickering between liberals and conservatives, between Dems and Republicans. Those who pointed out how this weakens our entire cuase were right- fighting each other keeps us from focusing on what really matters.

I'd like to ask that the same bickering between people of different religions stop as well. Several times in the past others have insisted that the entire Muslim conflict with the West is inextricably linked with Christianity, and I strongly object to that mindset. There are many readers of JW who are not Christian. I am not a Christian. That does not make me an infidel, a heathen, an idiot, an a**hole, nor even a lesbian. It also doesn't prevent me from reading, trying to educate myself and my children and wanting to protect my country- or ought I to say 'countires', as I am an American living in Canada?

Can't we just stop all of the verbal slights and various nasty remarks about others' religions, and focus on what is happening all around us? Otherwise, once again Pastor Niemoller's words will ring true:

They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object.

Posted by: libbysmom at December 21, 2005 9:41 AM

Right there with you, Libbysmom. (I've even apologized to Kj :) )

Posted by: Gary at December 21, 2005 9:53 AM

Libbysmom,

I completely agree that this struggle is Islam vs. all non-Muslims. We are all in this together.

However, Christianity is in the position to sew the seeds of doubt that will bring Islam crashing to the ground. Many ex-Muslims will tell you that the reason they came to the light: the major contradictory claims of Mohammed about Christ/Christianity.

Here's the deal: The historic fact of Jesus' crucifixion and claims deity are beyond any question: Roman Historians, Jewish sources, Gospels (written within decades of the crucifixion by eye-witnesses. AND the Koran claims the Gospels (Injil) are true). Whether or not one believes that Christ was the Son of God, his crucifixion and claims to be the Son of God (why he was crucified) are not in any rational doubt. Additionally, all his Apostles (minus John) went to their deaths claiming his deity and resurrection. They were the only ones with the motive and opportunity to steal the body. Nobody knowingly dies for a lie. Certainly not 11 men (and thousands of early martyrs).

Mohammed claims that Jesus was not crucified and Judas took his place. Mohammed claims Jesus always said he was a "prophet" and not the Son of God. Muslims believe the earlies Christians saw Jesus as a prophet. Just like Mohammed's claims of Mary being sister to Moses, the Jewish temple never existing, etc. etc. etc. These are the kinds of ridiculous claims that we must bring to Muslims.

When Muslims start waking up to the truth, and have the courage to criticize the contradictions, the whole ediface comes crashing down. Muslims will come out of their strict belief in the Koran being the word of God.

"Muscular" Christianity is an ally to all non-Muslims for the reasons stated above. Christianity is in the position to show the contradictions and sew the doubt. Therefore, all non-Muslims should stick together in supporting this aspect of Christianity. Additionally, Muslims have comfort in their belief in God. They will not come out to atheism, but to something like Christianity which replaces that belief in "Allah" with a belief in the God who tells followers to "love their enemy", "forgive" and "turn the other cheek". That has to be best for all of us.

Posted by: hello123 at December 21, 2005 12:06 PM

hello123,

I am sure you meant well in your post above, but before you explain to me that there are Jewish sources "confirming" the crucifixion and deification of Jesus, please check your facts. In fact, this is precisely what I mean- your insistance that Christianity is the only possible salvation for the West is not nly rather insulting, it is not well thought out. Being Jewish, I often find it somewhat easy myself to forget about the 'turn the other cheeck' aspect of Christianity. However, I am not antiChristian, just against the infighting between Christians and everyone else which occasionally rears its ugly head here on JW. In fact, isn't this one of the roots of the problem with Islam - that is, the insistance that there is but one True Religion?

Posted by: libbysmom at December 21, 2005 12:35 PM

Libbysmom,

Thanks for the response.

Look, here's the deal. The issue is not pushing one religion over another. If Islam made ridiculous, unsupportable claims about another non-Christian religion, then I would support followers of that religion using the historical and logical inconsistencies to undermine (I support the Jewish Temple issue to the hilt). It just happens to be that the Koran makes ridiculous, unsupportable claims about Christianity. I'm not making "faith" statements in saying Jesus "did" rise from the dead and was the Son of God. I'm make historic statements that contradict Mohammed. Mohammed claimed the Gospels are true (in which claim Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and was crucified). Yet Mohammed also claimed that Judas was crucified and Jesus told followers he was a prophet of "Allah". That just isn't historically/factually/logically correct.

I'm not trying to convert you. It is historic fact that Christ was crucified and the. Roman historians Josephus, Tacitus, and Pliny the Younger all confirm he was crucified. They write about his followers believing he was Son of God, Jesus being known to perform miracles, and claims of resurrection. I took a long Jewish Law/history class and it is a fact that Jesus' crucifixion was recorded by Jewish Sources. They believe that he was the son of a Roman Soldier and Mary, but confirm he was crucified and claimed to be the Messiah/Son of God to followers. You don't have to believe that claim and I understand you wouldn't.

The issue (for the sake of this group) is not whether Christianity is true. I have spent much time studying Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. I don't find historic/logical inconsistencies in Christianity and Judaism. Both of those religions are open for all to see. Both require faith. Neither kills it's members for leaving the faith and both are open to other ideas.

Interestingly, Christianity took the entire Hebrew Scripture for the Old Testament and changed nothing. Islam, on the other hand, claimed to be the final revelation of Judaism/Christianity and that the Hebrew and Christian scripture is "true". However, the Koran goes on to contradict the most important aspects of both religions.

Frankly, the Muslim claims about the Jewish Temple are equally preposterous (as the claims of Jesus' non-crucifixion). That can be used to undermine.

We (non-Muslims) are in this together. We sink or swim together. If aspects of any religion help in the struggle we face, I support that. As Christianity has the historic claims discussed above, non-Muslim/non-Christians should support the historic rebuff to the Koran. I'm not asking for faith, just helping show contradictions.

Posted by: hello123 at December 21, 2005 2:13 PM

Catharine-You are amazing! My hats off to your painful scrutiny of the Koran and the Hadits. A valuable ,useful research! I request You to post your writings in Ali Sina's faithfreedom.org too. Most of the Ex- Muslims visit this site and it will be a boost for other muslims too to come out of this cult. I Hope posters like Naseem go through your postings,as he?/she said 'what ever you write, I will be faithfull to Mohamed and Koran.Naseem, thats called 'blind belief' for which you Muslims are famous. It is just like saying "Allah told to kill all Infedals" SO I have to do that at any cost"!!. But Naseem, I compleatly agree with you,when you say Ahmediya Muslims are very tolerant, peacful Muslims.I have come accross many of your sect of Muslims,and have seen them as compleatly different from another muslims. The reason for this was explained by a Ahamaddya Muslim friend of mine: Ahmaddyaas are originally from India,converted Muslims from Hindus. So naturally the tolarance,that was comming down from generations passed on to them,though they have changed their faith. But I think,after few more generations, they too will acquire the familiar trait of Islam.

Posted by: rafia at December 21, 2005 2:56 PM

Catherine -- I wish you would exercise a little editorial restraint in your postings here -- I find your pasteup style makes it very difficult to follow the thread -- I have said it before, do you want "THREAD KILLER" to be appended to your list of names? I somehow don't think so!

Posted by: jsla at December 21, 2005 4:51 PM

Before the Islamic Invation of Egypt, it was a Gpotic Chritian country. Fanatic Arabs came , and invaded this historic Biblical land, by killing millions of Gopts. Finally,most of the Goptic Chritians were forced into accepting Islam,if not stay as third-class citizens by paying 'Giziya' .Their Churches were converted to Mosques. Even very recently, there was a riot and so many Gopts were murdered.All affluent Gopts migrated to safer Western countries. Now in Canada,there are a sizable number of Goptic Chritians live-actually colonising certain streets of Misisaguar on Toronto,Canada.They have theirown beautiful Church,built in the Goptic style.
My questian to these Gopts is ,How can you be so tolerant and sitting quiet, when this would be Muslim Politicion thundered ' Islam will win','Victory to Islam'?.You know fulwell howmuch persecution your people suffered in Egypt by these hearless Islamic beasts.