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Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses Russia's stance toward the global jihad:
In the mental subset of many Russians the murder, by a maddened Muslim mob, of the greatest Russian playwright Griboyedov (author of "Woe from Wit, or The Misfortune of Being Clever") in 1829, cannot be effaced or erased. With his knowledge of Oriental languages, Griboyedov had been posted to Persia and Georgia, and was in the legation in Tehran, serving as minister-plenipotentiary.Some Christians, including women -- Armenians and Georgians -- had sought to escape from pursuing Muslims by finding what they thought might be refuge in the Russian embassy. The fanatical mob -- plus ca change -- naturally ignored the rules about the sanctity of embassies (like all supposedly international rules of war and peace, as the American soldiers have discovered and the Israelis discovered before them, these rules do not apply to Muslims, who have their own guidebooks -- Qur'an and hadith and sira -- which tell them all they know, and all they need to know).
The place was stormed by the chanting fanatics ("Allahu Akbar" was not invented in Iraq yesterday), Griboyedov killed, and for three days his body was "so ill-treated by the mob" as the entry in the Encyclopedia Britannica (11th, and therefore still well-written, edition) states, that "it was at last recognized only by an old scar on the hand, due to a wound received in a duel."
Now this killing of someone whose work is taught to every Russian schoolchild has had its impact on Russian consciousnesses. So, of course, have the memories of the wild fanatical tribes in the Caucasus. The very phrase "vostochnij narod" -- an "Eastern people," readily evokes this wildness and fanaticism. But in Soviet times, while Islam was seen as a "religion" and therefore to be treated with as much ferocity as other "religions" -- no quarter was given -- in post-Soviet times Islam continues to be seen as a "religion" and has been allowed to flourish, and mosques to be built again, without a clear understanding that the only thing that permitted what development of science there has been in Central Asia was accomplished not despite, but because, Islam had been tamed. It will be instructive to compare the results between, for example, Kazakhstan (with its very large non-Muslim population, and its supposed Muslims often nominally so) and Uzbekistan, where the forces of Islam, naturally supported by Saudi and other Arabs, are helping to bring the country into disarray and to undo possibly the best thing the Soviet power ever managed to achieve -- the de-islamization of the elites, defined not economically but intellectually, of Central Asia.
Meanwhile, the demographic problem in Russia proper remains, grows, and ought to -- but still does not -- preoccupy all those who care about the continued existence of a place called Russia. And who, in Russian history, was more sparkling, amusing, frivolous, altogether wonderful and completely un-Islamic in every way, than Aleksandr Sergeevich Pushkin? So it will be a contest in Russia: the spirit of Pushkin, or the spirit of the sheikhs, mullahs, imams, of the Bin Ladens and Al-Qaradawis, and ultimately, of what is in Qur'an and hadith and sira.Which will intelligent Russians prefer? And will they act to protect their own heritage, which gives meaning and life to their language -- or will they allow here, as in parts of Western Europe, demographic trends to continue unchecked, and that demography to be destiny?
The Russian government, the Russian press, and many people in Russia persist in wallowing in resentment of the United States. They appear to believe that we are delighted that Russia is no longer as powerful as it once was, and are delighted at its disarray. Nonsense. The United States is hardly paying attention to Russia, and there is no gloating. Yet Putin, perhaps still jousting at Cold War windmills, plays up to the Iranians and the Chechen jihadists rather than make common cause with the United States against the jihadists – an option, of course, that the U.S. is not offering.
Yet now that Arabs, including Saudis, are in Chechnya, now that planes are blown up, and in a Moscow theatre 800 people taken hostage, and the Muslims allowed to leave while the Infidels are kept under guard, now that the vocabulary of the Chechens has become classically Islamic, one wonders how long Putin’s disconnection from reality can last.
Russian policy should be based on a realistic assessment of threats. Americans are not planning to flood across the border into Siberia, or to take over the Caucasus. Islam contains a clear geopolitical program: the dar al-Islam must swallow up the dar al-Harb. It can be achieved slowly. It need not be achieved by military conquest; in fact, at this point, it is demographic conquest, without terrorism or other forms of qital, combat, that are already proving so effective in Western Europe.
Instead of resentment about "losing" the Cold War -- the Russians did not "lose" it, they simply came to realize, helped along by American resolve, that Communism itself was a failure -- there needs to be a sober assessment of present-day realities. There is no reason to keep America at a distance.
Surely Putin should be able to see by now what Islam is all about. Surely he can see, just in Moscow itself, that there is a demographic problem. Soviet Islamists were often very acute. They were not held in check by any undue respect for something called a "religion." They were more willing to see a political ideology, to which some features of worship were attached. They should be helping to fashion a policy that will prevent a second Zolotaya Orda, Golden Horde. One hopes they come to their senses sooner than Western Europeans give any sign of doing. Perhaps they should remind themselves of, to begin with, the Bulgarian atrocities committed by the Turks between 1875-76. Start with a little pan-Slavism, with Serbs and Bulgarians, and work forward from that.
Russians want a task equal to their putative power, and what they see as their rightful place in the world. Helping the Old World come to its senses about Islam is such a worthy task. They might just consider it.
Posted by Robert at December 21, 2005 10:11 AM
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I've seen some preliminary news reports stating that some people in Chechnya may have been subject to an attack by poison gas. See the following link:
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2439242005
If this is accurate and it still does not bring the Russians to their senses, they are a lost cause.
Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 21, 2005 10:27 AM
"the dar al-Islam must swallow up the dar al-Harb. It can be achieved slowly. It need not be achieved by military conquest; in fact, at this point, it is demographic conquest, without terrorism or other forms of qital, combat, that are already proving so effective in Western Europe."
Actually, the facts show the opposite: acts of terrorism by Muslim commandos (Madrid, London) as well as acts of below-the-mainstream-radar Muslim vandalism throughout Europe (Amsterdam, Paris, Denmark, Sweden, Germany, etc.) are facilitating the demographic and Dawa conquest of Muslims.
The increased aggressiveness of Muslims since 911 in the forms of terrorism, vandalism and general socio-legalistic demands has been facilitating the demographic and Dawa conquest of Muslims.
How could this be so? It goes against all reason. The answer is simple: the West in the past few decades has become infected by the pathology of PC irrationality.
With each new Muslim explosion, with each new aborted Muslim attack, with each new report of Muslim aggression and violence in the world, the PC West assumes its paradoxical, perversely gymnastic position ever more earnestly: Bending over backwards to appease Muslims while bending over to feel the peace of Islam up the ass.
at December 21, 2005 11:01 AM
Paradoxically, it was under communism where the Muslims were less Muslim and more Russian . . . if only for a brief period, but the demise of communism unleashed the threat in its complete context. This is not to defend communism but it kept things under mothballs for a while. This was also the case in Yugoslavia as well. Strange, but the world was a safer place under communism then under Islam . . . all IMHO. It is true that many Russians envy and resent the US and our success more than they fear/respect thet demographic nightmare in their midst . . . even post-Beslan. Large cities are flooded with Chechnyan immigrants who are often linked to the mob.
Posted by: biorabbi at December 21, 2005 11:15 AM
From our point of view, the first thing that should have been done after 9/11 was to re-align our foreign policy along anti-Islam lines. If that had been done before going into Iraq, we may still have a mess on our hands, but it would be a mess with clear battle lines drawn, rather than the mess resulting from handing over the country to Islamist parties and pretending it will all turn out swell.
We should be building anti-Islamic alliances with Russia (on Chechnya), China (on the Uighurs), India (on Kashmir), the Philippines and any other nation where Muslims are breaking off or trying to break off chucks of territory.
Why, oh why, doesn't anybody understand this? We must have allies in this war and the only way to have allies is to stop lecturing them (see Condi on Chechnya) and start working with them by offering our support on their local Muslim problems.
We could have alliances with the other 4/5ths of the non-Muslim globe on this. We are squandering a precious opportunity and this opportunity, as they say in advertising when trying to pressure a sale, will not last forever.
going...going...
at December 21, 2005 11:30 AM
Agreed!
Putin selling nuclear technology to Iran and Bush selling F-16s to Pakistan are absurd. These alliances are Cold War relics. We should also leave the Balkans. It’s time to reformulate our foreign policy. Everything changed after 9/11? Hardly!
Posted by: JasonP at December 21, 2005 11:49 AM
It goes without saying, of course, that "leadership failure" and "Russian government" are synonyms.
But, here is the one caucasian nation with plenty of its own oil reserves (yes, I know that the cost of extraction from Siberia is high), yet they have chosen a policy of obeisance to Islam, apparently for the entertainment value of doing so.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at December 21, 2005 11:50 AM
I would submit that any success communism had in suppressing Islam was due to the problem it had created by itself. The more you suppress something a society feels it has a right to, the more of a rallying point it becomes-- same deal on a smaller scale with violently enforced secularization under the Shah, and the abolition of the caliphate in Turkey.
When communism fell, imperial Islam, incubated principally in Saudi Arabia and Iran, saw a target of opportunity and rushed in to agitate the locals... Remember how the invaders in War of the Worlds had been implanted in the earth eons prior to the overt conquest? Earlier Islamic conquests had made populations as far as the Caucasus at least nominally Muslim; wherever they are, the jihadists will try to "activate" them. And the USSR's behavior gave them another axe to grind.
Granted, this didn't happen with Christianity after the fall of communism. Two possible reasons for that: First, Christianity has been unfortunately waning in Europe for the past few decades anyway. Second, and more importantly, there's just no concept of jihad, but rather, conversion out of free will-- evidently a trivial concept in Islam.
Posted by: Shinoliite at December 21, 2005 11:51 AM
From my conversations when I was in Russia not so long ago, I gathered that fear of the Chinese demograpic and economic takeover of Siberia, seemed far more of a worry than Islam.
That and of course, the US bases in the Central Asian Stans.
Kazan, the capital of Tatarstan and home to one of Russia's largest helicopter factories is about 50 % muslim.
In an ICQ conversation with a complete stranger from Kazan, I understand that in the last 10 years the number of hijabs, bilbabs, burkhas and beards has multiplied exponentially. In this ancient Russian city, complete with an old Kremlin fortress by the river, two parallel worlds have developed.
Muslims and Infidels walk past each other in the streets, each ignoring the other. Mosque building has grown at a frenzied pace and the money for these mosques is all Saudi.
That Russia continues to worry about American power is just typical Russian mentality. But there is more to Russia this than Hugh's article may suggest.
Russians really love Russia. They may be many who wish to emigrate but they will never lose their russianess.
Some anecdotes to back up my sweeping statements:
In a country, where unlike France, there are no laws saying that 50 % of music on radio must be home grown, something like 80 % of what you hear on the radio is Russian. Its great pop. A song came out last year called 'Razmnozhaisya' (Lets make Babies)
Rock bands, like DDT, Smislovie Galusinatsi and B2 continue to make great music, all the while never forgetting their russianness. In Russia you hear this pop and rock everywhere. In every kiosque, market, restaurant and of course in discos and karaoke.
After the breakup of the Soviet Union, you would find only imported food in Russia. The beef came from Germany, the chicken from the USA, the kalbasa sausage from Poland and the cooking oil from Belgium.
Now the food sold is mostly locally produced. They are proud to sell Russian food.
In major movie productions, the bad guys say 'Allah Akhar" before killing their victims, and no one in Russia feels that Chechens make a positive contribution to their ethnic diversity. In fact, the Russians don't give a flying hoot about celebrating diversity. They will sip French wine and whilst claiming that the Georgian stuff is better. And why pay through the nose for Raviolis, when Siberian Pelmenis can feed you for so much less.
Millions of Russian tourists have also been to Paris and have suffered the helpless looks of the police who fill in yet one more declaration of theft. Every Russian who has been to Paris will complain about the unpleasant cultural diversity.
The Russian tourists, stuck in St Denis during the Paris riots have reported all over the blogosphere, the realities of multiculture.
The russian newspapers didn't hide the ethnicity or religion of the rioters. Their media may be pro Putin, but they are not anti russian.
This in the long term, is why I have more faith in Russia than in France in preserving European heritage.
In the Olympics, with far less financial support than in Soviet times. Russia still came near the top in the medalion stakes.
France no longer cares about France. Russia is going through a difficult period, but their school teachers still teach them how to read and read and write correctly and their parents still help them with their homework.
Russian remains the largest European ethnic group, and as far as I can guess, the most widely spoken native language in Europe.
Russia has done the world a huge disservice by selling arms to Syria and Iran. But they sell to the Indians too, and the French continue to help the Pakistanis with their submarine programme.
I still vote Russia to guide Europe out of this mess.
at December 21, 2005 12:07 PM
Rebecca,Jason,Sebastien
Agree with your posts. RUSSIANS DO LOVE THEIR COUNTRY AND MAY WELL SAVE THE BACON OF EUROPEANS FLEEING THE MUSLIM TERROR. It was the Russians in
World War 11 who threw back the Nazis and saved Europe then.Unfortunately American foreign policy is responsible for the distrust Putin and ordinary Russian citizens have for U.S . Remember Russians [majority] are Slavs & Orthodox Christians- so after assisting Muslims to kill off many Russians in Afghanistan, U.S proceeds to fund,arm and assist Muslims to kill
Serb Slavs in the Balkans. Some Russians joined the Bosnian Serbs to fight with their Slav Brothers in the war. Russian is a vast country and lectures by Condi & Bush will not be tolerated:America is seen as the World's greatest
Hypocrite as IT HAS ARMED & FUNDED HORRIBLE REGIMES FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY - Hugh will bear me out on that. As I've posted before U.S IS SELLING ARMS TO INDONESIA AS WELL AS PAKISTAN SO
HAS NO MORAL GROUND TO REPROACH RUSSIA.
This could all have been avoided if alliances were looked at long term instead of directed by the White House's arse kissing policy to the Saudis.
at December 21, 2005 12:51 PM
Correction
Should read 'HAS ARMED & FUNDED HORRIBLE REGIMES FIGHTING AGAINST DEMOCRACY'
at December 21, 2005 12:55 PM
One week, back in February, my wife noticed that several TV crime shows had the Russian Mob as perpetrators. It’s the latest stereotype from Hollywood. If they introduce an Islamic suspect it will be early on in the show and then only to admonish the viewer for jumping to such conclusions. I made a note of this on my blog at the time.
There were movies before 9/11 where Arabs were villains but that has disappeared from the big screen since 9/11. CEOs, the CIA, and the Russian mob seem to be they only groups without a lobbyist …
at December 21, 2005 12:59 PM
Robert --
I think the title needs work. "Awake!"--especially with that exclamation point (I hate exclamation points) evokes some crazed right-wing group run by Gerald L. K. Smith or some nativist group demanding that everyone else be run out of town on a rail. And there's too much of that sentiment in Russia already.
"Awake!" might most readily be found nowadays in the titles of publications by those who are haunted by thoughts of some fiendish, possibly Zionist, plot "to mongrelize the white race" and other David-Dukish notions. Or they belong to that often dangerous tribe, the Tribe of People who Possess the Truth and Insist On Sharing It With You, No Matter What.
Instead of "Russia, Awake!" how about "While Russia Sleeps" or "Russia: Vri, da znaj meru" or something else less monitory, less scary, less tending toward the chiliastic?
Posted by: Hugh at December 21, 2005 1:16 PM
from post above: "I still vote Russia to guide Europe out of this mess."
To paraphrase Tiny Time in another fairy tale: "God help us every one..."
Therefore, I still vote Mexico to guide the USA out of this illegal immigration mess...
from post above: "America is seen as the World's greatest
Hypocrite..."
Coming from the craven hypocrites in Europe, Russia, and China, this, perhaps, is a sincere testimonial for America's genuine greatness... The pygmies, the tyrants, the world's worst imperialist rapists viewing America as hypocritical -- Now that's a laugh!
also: "IT HAS ARMED & FUNDED HORRIBLE REGIMES FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY ..."
Not sure what you're saying -- are "regimes fighting for democracy" "HORRIBLE"?
Muddled thinking at best -- dangerous delusional thinking at worst from both of these posters above...
at December 21, 2005 1:16 PM
Oops -- Tiny Tim... I consider the posters above to be Tiny Times -- perhaps a Freudian slip on my part...
Posted by: jsla at December 21, 2005 1:17 PM
Howard,Fine&Howard,
Hope I'm right but this sounds like hysteria rather than a gas attack. We get this story every few years. Children at an event suddenly falling ill and being rushed to hospital hyperventilating and anxious. Trouble is, what would have been inconceivable some years ago, the deliberate targeting of the innocent child, is now the prerogative of the pious.
at December 21, 2005 1:18 PM
Jsla
You obviously didn't read my correction before making a slip up of your own...
at December 21, 2005 1:28 PM
I also believe Russia is another sleeping giant. If the U.S. and Russia could come to a common
point we would have exponentially more power. Too bad cold war politics are still burning so
brightly in their eyes. With both of us having suffered horrible attacks at the hands of the
devout Muslims, I wonder what it will take? I still recall watching a documentary in the early
'80s about Nostradamus. In addition to predicting the fall of the Soviet Union, this one also
interpreted his writings to claim that Russia would eventually join the U.S. and together we
would defeat an Islamic threat comprised of the middle east, and breakaway republics of the
then Soviet Union. Does anyone else recall seeing this one?
at December 21, 2005 1:31 PM
I agree with several of the above posters about an awakening Russia being the hope for Europe. I'll even go further and advocate an iron-clad alliance of Russia, China and India as the best hope for mankind.
Unfortunately, the Western powers have always had a deep-rooted anti-Russian prejudice that has lost many opportunities in the past to end the Islamic threat. Just look at the Crimean War where Britian and France when to war to prevent Russia from liberating Constantinople and so the Ottoman tyranny was saved.
During WW1, it was the Germans (helped by financing from Wall Street Bankers) who arranged for Lenin to enter Russia which ended Russia's role in the war. Had the Tsar not been overthrown, not only would Russia have been saved the genocidal tyranny of Communism, but she could have gained Constantinople as part of the post-war settlement.
Four years later the Western Powers stood by silently, while Ataturk's forces raped Smyrna and destroyed the last Christian presence in Anatolia.
When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, the US, in its unholy alliance with the Saudis, (and assisted by China, Israel, and NATO) funded and trained the organization and unity of the miltant Islam Jihadists and now we are all suffering from the blowback.
That shows a strategic difference between Islam and the West. The Western powers look at short-term political goals while Islam strives toward world domination regardless of how many generations it may take.
It is time to awake, and sadly, if that means a hard right regime (such as the Rodina party) must take power in Russia after Putin then the West must not oppose it.
Posted by: Provoslavni at December 21, 2005 1:46 PM
Yes, the Russians are pursuing a shortsighted policy fraught with dire possibilities for the future. But our hands are not clean in the matter of Russian-American relations. Clinton's criminal war against Russia's religious kin and traditional ally, Serbia, had far less justification than our current misadventure in Iraq. Yet the American left, who one might think would reflexively support the Communist Milosevich, was either silent or in favor of the Clinton war. And even, today, consider how ambivalent our policymakers and chattering classes are regarding Russia's life and death struggle against the Chechens and other murderous Muslims.
Its time that the cold war mentality ended on both sides and we can start by taking the first steps.
Posted by: RBLA at December 21, 2005 2:18 PM
jsla: from post above: "I still vote Russia to guide Europe out of this mess."
To paraphrase Tiny Tim in another fairy tale: "God help us every one..."
Therefore, I still vote Mexico to guide the USA out of this illegal immigration mess...
I don't really see the connection between Mexico and Russia. Mexicans are flooding the US with immigrants, the Russians aren't flooding Europe with Muslims.
The only thing muslims respect is terror. I don't know any European country other than Russia that will give them the terror they deserve.
Posted by: Sebastien at December 21, 2005 2:52 PM
I agree that Putin has done some very dangerous things, such as selling weapons and technology to Iran, Syria, etc. But Americans and British should be concerned about how to get the State Dept and CIA to change their pro-Islamic policy. I trace UK pro-Islamic policy back to Toynbee's book The Western Problem in Turkey [or some such] in the early 1920s. This was book was preceded by pro-Muslim policies in Egypt before WW I, of which Copts complained at that time, and in Israel starting with Allenby in 1918 in apparent contradiction to the pro-Zionist policy of Balfour and Lloyd George. Something similar was probably happening in India too, although I don't claim to know enough about India to judge. As far as the USA, it tends to follow UK policy, and since FDR met with Ibn Saud in 1945, it seems that the State Dept and CIA [with its founding in 1947] have been pro-Arab, pro-Muslim ever since. So Americans and Brits should work on changing their own govts' policy.
Posted by: Eliyahu at December 21, 2005 2:53 PM
Hugh says
Yet Putin, perhaps still jousting at Cold War windmills, plays up to the Iranians and the Chechen jihadists rather than make common cause with the United States against the jihadists –
Sorry Hugh I don't see any evidence of this administration acting against the Jihadi's, and apparently you don't either. Need I say Saudi Money and Oil, Islamist Afghanistan and Iraq, sponsorship of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Egyptian elections, offers of olive branches to Hizbollah and Hamas, millions of dollars given to the PA, part of which is to supposedly "rebuild Gaza" after the Arabs tore it up in their usual insane fit.
Other points to consider the Marxist Bear is gone, but as far as realpolitik and balance of power, this Administation (maybe the next one too) is keeping alive the Grand Chessgame, the balance of power politics.
And less we forget it was George W. Bush who chastized Putin for his handling of Chechnya and it was George W.Bush who backed the Islamophilic Yushenko against the Russophilic Islamophobic Yanukovich.
Victor Yushenko: Democrat and Anti Semite?
Bush Compares Yushkenko to George Washington
The Crimean Tatars overwhelmingly backed the "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine, but in the wake of that victory, they face three challenges to their national aspirations: first, the probability of increased Russian meddling on the peninsula, second, the likelihood of growing Islamic fundamentalism there, and third, the possibility of declining support by Western governments that now have a government in Kyiv they like.
The Crimean Tatars face increased Russian meddling in Crimea, some of it by the local Russian community but much of it clearly orchestrated by Moscow. Ethnic Russians -- who constitute the majority of the peninsula's population -- voted overwhelmingly against Viktor Yushchenko.
Some of the more extreme ethnic Russian opponents of the Orange Revolution there organized themselves as Cossack detachments to defend against what they said were Crimean Tatar threats, according to religare.ru, and others urged a vote to put Crimea under Russian control, mignews.com reported.
Even though the Ukrainian presidential election is now over and tempers may have cooled somewhat, Moscow's interests in maintaining its naval base there and in continuing to use Crimea as a counterweight to Kyiv make it likely that Russia will attempt to exacerbate problems there, a development that is likely to hurt rather than help the Crimean Tatars.
One reason for that conclusion involves the second challenge the Crimean Tatars now face, the growth of Islamic fundamentalism there and the ways in which the Russian authorities are seeking to exploit it through their media coverage of this trend.
The Crimean Tatars historically practice a very moderate form of Islam, but in the 1990s both domestic and foreign factors played a role in the appearance there of Wahhabism, and more recently followers of Hizb ut-Tahrir (See the abstract of the paper by Ernst Koudousov, "Wahhabism In The Crimea" at http://www.isorecea.org/abstracts.php and an article by Ya. Amelina at http://www.olmer2.newmail.ru/45_19.htm). Extreme poverty and a sense of hopelessness among many Crimean Tatars have contributed to the growing popularity of radical Islam, but so too have the activities of Muslim missionaries from the Arab world and Central Asia and of both the Russian and the Ukrainian governments, who at various points have shown themselves interested in splitting the Crimean Tatar national movement.
Posted by: Nariz at December 21, 2005 3:27 PM
Putin has recently commented that Russia has always been the best friend of Muslims. In Putin's KGB universe, which stretches only as far back as the Soviet Union of its latter days, the idea of Russian-Muslim friendship is self-evident. Indeed, there was probably no better friend of Muslims, especially Arabs, and no fiercer enemy of the US and Israel than the Soviet Union.
For Putin, the alliance with Muslims is no less natural than for his fellow KGB servant and one of the most famous Soviet Arabists Yevgeniy Primakov, who, while being Jewish himself, was a Ph. d. thesis advisor for Mahmud Abbas, who earned his doctorste in Moscow for denying Holocaust and "discovering" links between Zionists and Nazis. It was Mr. Primakov, may I remind you, who as foreign minister gave the Russian policy its current militantly anti-American stance and who made friends with Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi. The KGB-moulded of the current leadership appears incorrigible, and former KGB people are becoming ever more numerous in the Russian ruling caste under Putin.
Thus, no wonder that Russia is selling weapons to Iran and Syria - those in Kremlin just know no other foreign policy. Seek no logic here - Russian leadership is living in an illusory world that it has built with the help of state-controlled TV channels, and Putin's entourage feeds on the same sort of misinformation that it has the general public to swallow. In this dreamworld, Russia successfully competes with the US and builds alliances with the whole world, while the US is universally despised and resented. In this same world, the war in Chechnya is all but won and jihad is defeated despite all the evidence that jihad is steadily spreading all over the Caucasus. While dreaming on and getting ever more divorced from reality, Putin is getting ever closer to having his youthful dream come true, the dream of becoming General Secretary Brezhnev.
Thus, Russia will not awake, no matter how loudly Hugh rings the alarm bell, at least while its current leadership holds on to the power, and it will probably keep on ruling for the foreseeable future. And who cares what ordinary Russians think, as long as they are silent, and silent they are.
It's a fantasy that Russia will one day lead Europe. Russia has all the major problems of western Europe: declining and aging population, large Muslim minority, and incompetent leadership unaccountable to the people. Add here poverty and low and falling life expectancy, and you have all the ingredients to call Russia "a sick man of Europe", as Russian emperor Nicholas I once sneering referred to the Ottoman Empire.
Posted by: Liggett at December 21, 2005 3:56 PM
Russia's xenophobia is somewhat justified having suffered many invasions from Europe,the Middle East, and Asia. Precariously perched geopolitically, all the more important the US and it's allies form as close an alliance as possible. Russia has grown a lot since it's Stalinist era and I'm much more hopeful for them than China, who appear to be using capitalism strictly to boost their military capabilities.
Posted by: kevin at December 21, 2005 4:07 PM
To Nariz
Continung from the source that you provided:
"The number of Crimean Tatars involved in these two movements nonetheless remains very small -- no more than 300 Wahhabis and far fewer adepts of Hizb ut-Tahrir are to be found in Crimea -- and most of their leaders currently appear more interested in religious questions than in political action. ...
As a result, up to now, the impact of fundamentalist Islam in Crimea has been extremely limited, but Russian authors are increasingly playing up this threat both to frighten Kyiv and the West and possibly to justify continuing Russian involvement there."
The reason Tatars voted overwhelmingly for Yushchenko is not that he is especially Islamophilic. Tatars have invariably sided with Kiev against Moscow and Crimean secessionists ever since Ukraine gained independence. The reason is very straightforward: it was independent Ukraine that allowed Tatars to come from Uzbekistan where Stalin deported them in 1944. In place of Tatars, Stalin settled many people from central Russia in Crimea. Consequently, Russians and Tatars view each other with hostility, and Tatars correctly perceive independent Ukraine as the only guarantee of their safety.
In fact, Yushchenko treats people of all faiths very well, including Jews and Muslims. There is no denying, however, that Yushchenko has some anti-Semitic friends, most notably, the Socialist Party leader Oleksandr Moroz, who controls Silski Visti, a newspaper popular in rural areas and famous for its anti-Semitism.
Posted by: Liggett at December 21, 2005 4:18 PM
Sebastien: You may be correct -- in the final analysis, the only way to fight the scourge of Islam may be to stoke the fires of anti-Islamic fascism and Western Nationalism -- I hope this isn't the only way to repel them... Ultimately, we have not begun to express this in terms simple enough and clear enough to elicit desirable results from the Islamic side. They continue to ply their terror, and to promote their insidious hatred undiminished... Perhaps it must be made clear to Muslims that they have two choices : reform, or be annihilated... perhaps that's the only way to get results... In the interim, before humanity is forces into such stark choices, I support partial warfare with Arabs and Muslims such as the Iraq war -- that is, partial war in lieu of total war with Islam... Ultimately it's more in their hands than ours how this eventually plays out...
But I was trying to convey the idea that counting on the Russians to be effective against the Islamic onslaught is probably folly. Their corruption (cultural and governmental) certainly rivals that of Mexico -- and their incompetence somewhat rivals Mexico as well... as such, I think they are far more vulnerable to failures in a confrontation with Islam than we are in Europe and America (though our records are hardly enviable regarding Muslim immigration, or policies towards Muslim nations and their manifold Jihads...) I wouldn't look towards Russia for any answers any time soon... Don't forget, the fury with which the Russian soldier fought in WW2 was aided by his certain annihilation at the hands of the tyrant Stalin -- our alliance with this monster was only one of convenience... Russia has never shown itself to be a reliable partner for world peace, nor have they EVER shown themselves to have a form of governance which is legitimate by Western democratic standards.
Is is possible that a new Russian regime will ever be installed which wields the same Statist brutality (as Stalin did) to convince its citizens to fight? Afghanistan showed the modern Russian to be a feckless fighter at best. And after all, Russia's humiliating loss did more, even than the influx of trillions of petrodollars, to fuel the current pan-Global Islamic Jihad! UBL convinced himself that America and Russia were roughly equivalent -- and much of the rest of the world has done the same -- even our erstwhile allies... This is a grave mistake on their parts... Witness our fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan... I have read that in Chechnya, many Russians are defecting in huge numbers, and worse, some are truly defecting from their culture and religion and converting to Islam rather than fight for the Russian state... Russia appears to be a nation so weary of war -- so utterly corrupt -- so rudderless and weary of totalitarianism -- indeed, even weary of itself... Is that the kind of nation we might look to for success against the insidious Islamic aggression?
We must be sober in this anti-Jihad -- we are at a disadvantage, given the deplorable attitudes of most of our "allies" , and the Islamic eating machine, while primitive and barbaric, has proven it is up to the task of gobbling up vast tracts of lands, and destroying all memories of formerly great civilizations....
Islam is like a plague of sea urchins descending on a vibrant reef -- slow paced, outbreeding its food sources, patient, but ravenous and unrelenting. At first, they appear to be part of the landscape, a little nibble here, a little nibble there -- but through time -- these thoughtless little eating machines work their way through the most magnificent marine communities and leave a wasteland of destruction behind... No memory but urchin memories remain -- no thoughts but urchin thoughts remain... and the beauty that once was is forgotten...
Islam is this kind of eating machine... The rest of the world is the reef... The Russians, and their petrified friends in Europe are just so much coral -- waiting to be nibbled to death --
Posted by: jsla at December 21, 2005 4:19 PM
Russia's xenophobia is somewhat justified having suffered many invasions from Europe,the Middle East, and Asia. Precariously perched geopolitically, all the more important the US and it's allies form as close an alliance as possible. Russia has grown a lot since it's Stalinist era and I'm much more hopeful for them than China, who appear to be using capitalism strictly to boost their military capabilities. Posted by: kevin
Good post and good points Kevin.
You can't form an alliance with someone, whom you are constantly threatening, throwing brickbats at and calling names. Something I've repeatedly tried to tell the FREEPERS who post, here but it goes over their heads (like it does Bush's) like a lead balloon.
Instead of balance of power politics and perpetual hostility, this administration (whoever is in charge) should extend a hand of partnership to Russia instead of treating it like a threat or a miscreant child.
A continuation of the current attitude and policy produces the results of Russia allying itself with Syria and Iran...and by the way. Russia is actually fighting Muslims within it's own territory Liggett, so there should be no doubt that they are aware of the Islamic threat.
But the hostile and arrogant attitude of America towards Russia produces the INTENDED results, when under seige people look for allies wherever they can find them.. and Russia perceives it is under threat.
BTW, it is our NATO allies, that have built up Iran and Pakistans nuclear program.. money, contracts, employment, jobs, profits, market share, stock prices.
And here we are, the peons, muddling around in the waters of ideology, where it seems ideology has nothing to do with events, except to distract the peons.
Posted by: Nariz at December 21, 2005 4:22 PM
"We must be sober in this anti-Jihad -- we are at a disadvantage, given the deplorable attitudes of most of our "allies" , and the Islamic eating machine, while primitive and barbaric, has proven it is up to the task of gobbling up vast tracts of lands, and destroying all memories of formerly great civilizations....
Islam is like a plague of sea urchins descending on a vibrant reef -- slow paced, outbreeding its food sources, patient, but ravenous and unrelenting. At first, they appear to be part of the landscape, a little nibble here, a little nibble there -- but through time -- these thoughtless little eating machines work their way through the most magnificent marine communities and leave a wasteland of destruction behind... No memory but urchin memories remain -- no thoughts but urchin thoughts remain... and the beauty that once was is forgotten...
Islam is this kind of eating machine... The rest of the world is the reef... The Russians, and their petrified friends in Europe are just so much coral -- waiting to be nibbled to death --"
Just reading that powerful image has had made me extremely depressed. I would imagine this to be read by someone in his best Richard Burton voice as an introduction to a War of the Worlds (The Jihad)
My feelings on Russia are very subjectively skewed, because I love the country.
Stalin had trouble persuading the Russians to fight for communism, but had no trouble getting them to fight for mother Russia. Witness the 'Za Rodina' (For the Motherland) posters published during the war.
I don't for one minute imagine the Russians charging into Europe liberating us from Islamic tyranny. The last time they did something like that, it was more a case of out of the saucepan and into the fire. But if over the next 50 years
European nations fall into dhimmitude, I would rather expect that Russia would not be one of them.
Dhimmitude runs throughout Western European society, from politicians, down to journalists, school teachers and students.
This is far from the case in Russia.
Can you imagine any other European nation award Saint status to a soldier who refused to convert to Islam?
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/8396-3.cfm
Posted by: Sebastien at December 21, 2005 4:51 PM
"Dhimmitude runs throughout Western European society, from politicians, down to journalists, school teachers and students.
This is far from the case in Russia."
For all the anti-dhimmitude stance of the Russian people, Russian leadership continues to encourage and facilitate the global jihad. People's feelings and thoughts don't matter for Putin and his cronies on this issue, just as well as on any other issue of domestic and foreign policy.
Posted by: Liggett at December 21, 2005 5:36 PM
Russia certainly needs to get real and start keeping tabs on its Muslim population and take a much closer look at the perils contained in the Koran, Sira and hadith. Russia has a long history of antisemitism and numerous pogroms, but still can't seem to fathom out the fact that the real danger is Islam and not Judaism. Just imagine had Russia's Jewish population been anything like its Muslims. There would certainly have been far fewer pogroms carried out against Jews. But Russia's painfully slow learning curve is on full view in its dealings with Iran, and given Ahmadinejads threats to nuke Israel, the old antisemitism so endemic in Russia for generations is once again bubbling to the surface. And if the following link http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/Fjordman51213.htm is anything to go by, Russia isn't the only country with problems on its hands. Sweden looks completely lost to the Islamists, doesn't seem to know what to do, and even if it does know what to do, it simply doesn't have the moral courage to do what is necessary through paralysing political correctness.
Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at December 21, 2005 5:49 PM
Was unaware that jihadists brutally murdered a prominent Russian literary figure, but it comes as no surprise.
I think they would like to kill every cultural artifact of every single nation. Whole libraries would be burned under Islamic law...especially philosophy. Goodbye Sartre, Nietzche, or any other heralded thinkers. Goodbye to Bukowski (to sexual), Hemingway (to much alcohol talk). Forget about Poe and Henry Miller. Jane Austen, founder of the novel, no more. Same goes for Virginia Wolf...women cannot write! God has so said!
As for Russia, home to some of the greatest writers known to man, statues of famous writers would be destroyed.
After they take over how about the Statue of Liberty covered in standard Saudi garb, and the demolition of Mt. Rushmore?
Posted by: ChinCheck at December 21, 2005 5:51 PM
"Was unaware that jihadists brutally murdered a prominent Russian literary figure..."
-- from a posting above
This was a simple Eastern mob. Vostochnij narod, vostochnij bunt. Eastern people, an Eastern riot. Par for the course, in the Russian phrase, where the adjective "eastern" (vostochnij) explains it all, but note that it refers in these phrases not to Hindus or Chinese or Koreans or other people of the East (Vostok) but rather to the Muslims of the Kavkaz, and Persia, and Turkey -- the people whom the Russians encountered, and fought with, over a long period. Your phrase is unintentionally (and understandably) anachronistic. These were not "jihadists" nor did they have any idea whom they were murdering (no idea, that is, that he was a "prominent Russian literary figure" which still doesn't quite fit the case -- let's just call Griboyedov a "celebrated writer" or "the great playwright" as the very concept of "prominence" and being "prominent" doesn't quite fit at that time and in that place. Pushkin, Gogol, Zhukovskij are famous or celebrated writers. "Prominent" -- that's a later and more Anglo-American notion. Henry James and Edith Wharton were prominent writers. Prominent members of the Fugitive School were John Crowe Ransom, W. C. Cash, etc. That's prominent. Later on it would be fine to describe some "prominent members of the First Duma included..." But not quite in 1829, and as applied to him.
at December 21, 2005 6:12 PM
I am Russian and speak it fluently I can tell you its that the article has some misconceptions about the Russian beliefs. The Russian people are nationalists and nationalism is not of course the love of your country/people but rather the hate for other countries or people. To say that they dislike or like one group more than another is simply a misinterpretation of the Russian "spirit".
Posted by: Skeptic at December 21, 2005 6:30 PM
Hugh your spot on. My wife was born and raised in Saint Petersburg, Russia and moved to the US in the last gasp of Russian Jewish exodus in the 1990's to the US. While fluent in Russian, she rarely has the opportunity to speak it, so I was somewhat suprised when I mentioned that I read about 'the greatest Russian playwright Griboyedov' who was killed in 1829 when she began to spout some of his poems to me. She was also aware of the particular cause of his demise as well. As a footnote, she would go to summer camp in the middle of the old USSR with kids from all over, including Mohameds and the like, who, at that time, considered themselves Russians first. Religion was ruthlessly suppressed under the old rules in Russia. Interestingly all three of the major religions are making a revival in the old USSR . . . with predictable results. A revival of Muslim fanatacism, like an old case of plague that has gained traction. The Russian Orthodox church is moving up, but not as fast as many of the US protestant demoninations. Putin is against this trend by the way . . . to protect the natavist church. Orthodox Judiasm is rapidly increasing, much to my surprise. With the decline of the Soviet state, without a stable nation state, but one rife with corruption and rip-off artists, religion is moving into the vacumn in both a positive sense . . . the Christian ethic of the soul and with not-so-positive implications such as submission and Jihad.
Posted by: biorabbi at December 21, 2005 7:19 PM
Morgane-
Russia is in no position to criticize the USA AT ALL.
What factual basis could ANYONE POSSIBLY HAVE FOR SAYING SUCH A THING???????
Maybe this:
Russia has massacred over 300,000 people in Chechnya durting its unilateral war against Chechens in the 1990s. Moscow had the option of letting this relatively unimportant province secede as it had in the case of Armenia, which it permitted to secede. But because Chechnya has petrol reserves it forced the Chechnyans to remain unwillingly as part of the de facto Soviet Empire.
Saying yes to one breakaway while saying no to another smacks of the very hypocrisy you so repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly say so factually is so HORRIBLE about America.
Russians just from this instance alone can be seen as capable of hypocrisy. We are talking about Russia here. Now Morgane you can state that AMERICA is the worst VIOLATER OF ALL. AND KNOWING YOU, YOU WILL. BUT--
Not so long ago Russia WAS one of those horrid dictatorships you condemn America for allegedly supporting. The Russian Communist dictatorship can be credited for murdering over 30 million people, possibly killing that many during the 1930s alone. And withiout the help of the United States.
Do you actually believe the western democracies are going to trust a nation that gave rise to such a monstrous government???
If so, you've got bats in your belfry.
p.s.--if Russia was so altruistically inclined why in the hell is Moscow supplying the Iranian ayatollahs with billions of high-tech wedaponry--including enrtiched uranium?
Tell us, oh wise one Morgane, why did Russia supply Saddam Hussein's regime with over 25 billion US dollars of high tech weaponry, if it is as disposed towards goodness as you claim? Why did Russian Special Forces remove WMD from Iraq in early 2003 through Syria on trains?
A man I know from Iran (a Christian) once told me that without Moscow the Iranian ayatollahs could do nothing. What he says doesn't exactly jive with your statements does it?
at December 21, 2005 8:04 PM
"Paradoxically, it was under communism where the Muslims were less Muslim and more Russian"
The Soviet Union destroyed thousands of mosques during its reign, often during peace time. The Americans, on the other hand, must treat every mosque and Koran and domicile in a war zone with "respect" and "sensitivity", and still the Muslims hate us more than they hate Russians, and if we make one wrong move, whether of shooting a likely Muslim murderer in the head or accidentally allowing urine spray to allegedly touch a Koran, riots and global protests are ignited. If we slightly mistreat a prisoner, all PC hell breaks loose around the world, yet the French actually and truly tortured Muslims during their long Algerian war -- and still, the Muslims hate us more than they hate the French.
at December 21, 2005 8:12 PM
Classic Russian tale:
In the wake of the Bolshevik Revolution, Pavl Andreivich Romonovskii, an anti-Semitic aristocrat, found himself in the same cell with Shlomo Moisevich Finkl, a Jewish student caught "speculating" (i.e., making a living). Misery and politics make strange bedfellows, so the two became friends, and had the following conversation:
PAVL: MOisevich, is it true that there really is a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world?
SHLOMO: Indeed there is, Andreievich.
PAVL: Aha! I knew it! All those reds like Trotsky, Zinoviev, Ltivinov, all a bunch of filthy zhids! (Now, you, friend, are the exception).
SHLOMO: Calm down. The plot is far older than they. Why, it goes all the way back to the days when the temple was still standing, and a band of Jews launched a plot to put the world under a Jewish king in its very shadow.
PAVL: Then it's the freemasons! We all know what that crew holds...
SHLOMO: Wrong again--and I won't tell the Reverend Father you dabbled in freemasonry should we ever get out.
PAVL: (**Gulp**). Then, what is this Jewish conspiracy to put the world under a Jewish king?
SHLOMO: Christianity, friend, Christianity.
***********
Cool the talk of a grand anti-Muslim alliance of the USA, Russia, China, and India. China, despite Sharki Turkistan separatism, is very friendly with the genocidal Islamicists of Sudan (energy politics) and helped Pakistan develop nuclear capacities. India, despite Kashmir, is about 12% Muslim in its demographics. As for Russia and Ukaraine, the latter has been anti-Semitic since Bogdan Chmelnicki led a revolt against the Poles; while the former gave us the _Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion_ and periodic fits of anti-Westernism as well. Zhirinovsky, the brown part of Russia's red-brown alliance, believes an alliance between the Eastern Orthodox and Muslim peoples doable and desirable (never mind what transpired when that was tried between the Despotats of Epiros and the Ottoman Sultan). And, how much can an old GayBay like Putin like the power that outlasted the one he was trained to serve?
And, on the other hand, Islam itself can be pretty fissiparous, if allowed to be what it has always most unattractively been. The Uzbeks hate the Mshkhetians, who hate the Tajiks, who hate the Tatars. The Uighur and the Hui tend to hate each other more than they hate the Han. Bengalis and Panjabis never got along very well, either. For a long time, Afghanistan supported India against Pakistan; the Arab states, Pakistan, and Iran could care less what happens to the Hui and Uighur; Sudanese Muslim Arabs massacre Sudanese Muslim Fur; etc.
Last of all: Another Classic Russian tale;
Old Yuri Ivanovich, shivering and starving in the midst of the Siberian winter, hears a knock on the door. The door flies open, and in strides a tall, cloacked figure holding an hourglass (with all the sand in the bottom) in a skeletal hand, and shouldering a scythe. It lowers its hood to uncover a skull face. "I am the Angel of Death!" the mysterious figure cackles. "Thank goodness," says Yuri, crossing himself (with three fingers, of course). "For moment am thinkink was sikrit poliss!"
Posted by: Kepha at December 21, 2005 8:37 PM
Pythagoras My Pet
You seem woefully ignorant of your country's[which I assume to be America] history in dealing
with other nations.Re:Iraq -who kept lovely Saddam Hussein in power for decades, none other than good 'ol U.S.A. Who keeps the regimes in Eygpt,Pakistan, the fat Saudi Princes propped up-U.S again.
America is particularly blind when it comes to other countries - all it seems to see is U.S interests. You demonstrate that yourself- it is perfectly okay for Russia to give up Chechnya, but tell me when was the
last time America gave up any of its land??
From moral point of view, America giving the green light to the killing of half a million probably more CHRISTIAN inhabitants of East Timor
doesn't make you the darling of the so called Free World. Suggest you read more than a potted political history of U.S's disastrous foreign policy.
at December 21, 2005 10:40 PM
Morgane, those policies were the result of decades of Democratic Presidential and Congressional leadership. FDR made the original deal with the Saudis that put them in control of Arabia. JFK let then nationalize the oil fields the West found and developed. Hopefully things will change for the better now that the Republicans are in control, but we will have to wait and see. Every country puts its' own interests ahead of others. It's natural, nothing surprising there. I defy you however to find one country that has done as much to help other countries as the USA has. When we defeated Germany and Japan after WWII we helped rebuild those nations. Russian stripped East Germany for "reparations". Pakistan was struck by earthquakes. Where has most of their aid come from? It is hypocritical of the nations of the world to rage against the USA with a fist on one hand and come begging to us with the other outstreached, then when our backs are turned, to stab us.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at December 21, 2005 10:58 PM
I'm more inclined towards Ligget's and jsla's point of view. And pythagoras too.
I don't trust the Russians. And I still hold a grudge against them for what they did in the 20th century(like giving Hitler the green-light to start WW2). Those that complain about USA **RESPONSES** to the REAL Soviet threat during the Cold-war(as if there was no real threat), or try to formulate a "moral-equivelence" between the two are ignorant and/or naive. They remind me of the people who minimize or deny the islamic threat today.
Here's some interesting reading:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/coldwar/nsc20-4.htm
http://www.country-studies.com/russia/the-era-of-the-new-economic-policy.html
Posted by: kentim at December 21, 2005 11:00 PM
Morgane,
You're wrong. It's worse than you think. We
don't even act in our self interest!
We made a big mistake attacking Serbia, of
that I am sure. I wish I could send a big
"WE"RE SORRY!" note to the Serbs. How were the
interests of America served by attacking them?
Any Serbs reading? I'm sorry! We were wrong, I
hang my head in shame.
Yes, the Serbs are not angels (nor are we!)
but they were kicking ass on mohammadans, and
therefore on the right side. The Israelis aren't
angels either, but they fight the same fight.
at December 21, 2005 11:03 PM
Robert, BTW when I saws the title "AWAKE!" I thought you had become a Jehovah's Witness and were going to start selling copies of The Watchtower. Glad to see I was wrong!
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at December 21, 2005 11:06 PM
Let's see some new dots??
German gets released in Iraq?
Germans relese a islamic terrorist who had life for killing an American ? YEP 2+2=4
I see the Germans are willing to set islamic terrorist loose on the world again??
Fake Gas truck found in GA?? Oh yea pedia was to blow up apartment buildings?? How many have had Gas fires in GA in the last 2 weeks was it 3??
Why will the courts not let him go to the civi side?? THAT JUST DON'T MAKE ANY SENCE yes it was the court who said the miltary had no right to hold him yet it is that same court now making the miltary hold him??
WOW MY HEAD IS A SPINNING!!!
Seame the Judge who just quit the FISA court was the same judge who said the military had no right to do the trials??
I am seeing some dots?? OH yea was appointed by clinton??
OH yea buy oil it's going up because the Senate is such PUSSY'S!!
You see they don't think that tanks or jets run on oil and have no problem buying the oil from the ME?? seams they are living in OZ think there are solar jets out there to buy??
OH yea in Ohio seams a mosque went up?? Another mulsum blew up a mosque??
Now why would they do that because they want it to look like they are the victims because Americans are getting PISSED!!
AGAIN THE SENATE IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF PUSSY'S!!!!!
Palis say they aint going to vote in Jan???
well we aint going to give them any money let the arab's feed them!!
WHEN ARE THE PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP AND FIND OUT WE ARE AT WAR??
THE ENEMY IS IN THE GATES!!
http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html
VIDEO IN NYC
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM GIVE THE WORLD COU-RAGE TO STAND UP TOGETHER TO FIGHT THIS ENEMY AMEN
PS
Posted by: JasonP at December 21, 2005 11:49 AM
Didn't you hear we aint selling those Jets the oder was cansled after the Oct 8th EarthQuake no money??
And Russia is selling some tanks to India heard the Indiian on Cspan today??
Seams the People of Russia are thaken to the streets to protest Illegal aliens??
There are many things that go on behind closed doors that says things are not just going going??
OH YEA
The Russian version of hollywood is making a great movie about the afghan war that shows the Russian men as Heros! They need this
and seams that the donkey don't count and we are soon [or drawing down because the earthquake wiped out the islamic army we were fighting]leaving afaghan to take care of afgahan ths is good!!
AND JUST A REMINDER!!
OT:
I'm sure most of you have seen this, but it should be reposted every year. You may see it on DW also:
A Christmas Poem
Twas the night before Christmas
He lived all alone
in a one bedroom house
made of plaster and stone.
I had come down the chimney
with presents to give,
and to see just who
in this home did live.
I looked all about,
a strange sight I did see,
no tinsel, no presents,
not even a tree.
No stocking by mantle,
just boots filled with sand,
on the wall hung pictures
of far distant lands.
With medals and badges,
awards of all kinds,
a sober thought
came through my mind.
For this house was different,
it was dark and dreary,
I found the home of a soldier,
once I could see clearly.
The soldier lay sleeping,
silent, alone,
curled up on the floor
in this one bedroom home.
The face was so gentle,
the room is such disorder,
not how I pictured
a United States soldier.
Was this the hero
of whom I'd just read?
Curled up on a poncho,
the floor for a bed?
I realized the families
that I saw this night,
owed their lives to these soldiers
who were willing to fight.
Soon round the world,
the children would play,
and grown-ups would celebrate
a bright Christmas day.
They all enjoyed freedom
each month of the year,
because of the soldiers,
like the one lying here.
I couldn't help wonder
how many lay alone,
on a cold Christmas eve
in a land far from home.
The very thought
brought a tear to my eye,
I dropped to my knees
and started to cry.
The soldier awakened
and I heard a rough voice,
"Santa don't cry,
this life is my choice;
I fight for freedom,
I don't ask for more,
My life is my God,
my country, my Corps."
The soldier rolled over
and drifted to sleep,
I couldn't control it
I continued to weep.
I kept watch for hours,
so silent and still
and we both shivered
from the cold night's chill.
I didn't want to leave
on that cold, dark night,
this guardian of honor
so willing to fight.
Then the soldier rolled over,
with a voice soft and pure,
whispered, "Carry on Santa,
It's Christmas day, all is secure."
One look at my watch,
and I knew he was right.
"Merry Christmas my friend
and to all a good night."
This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa, Japan.
Posted by: CGW at December 12, 2005 09:38 AM
at December 21, 2005 11:46 PM
Good one, Catherine, God bless our guys who work to keep us safe.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 22, 2005 12:07 AM
Posted by: Hugh at December 21, 2005 01:16 PM
No matter the title you get 3 Gold Stars
and don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
I tried really hard but i just have to do it!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE COUNTRIES WHO HAVE HEROS PITY NOT THE COUNTRIES WHO NEED THEM AMEN
Just 60 Years ago we didn't get along with Russia and Yet we came together to fight a common foe.
Maybe we can do the same now. I don't see Russia and the USA so far apart we both have polis who like to have their plams gresed and will sell the people down the river the thing is the People have to make the Polis do the right thing.
We can go on about my dog is bigger than your dog thing, but this gets us no where as our enemy grows....
I can say, but you did this, and you can say, but you did that, and this is all true, but the enemy is the same and has a goal to divide and conqure just that simple.
Now we can press on from the old bad news and move ahead and defeat our enemy or stay divided and watch each other lose the war?
In my mind it is simple but most things are!
It should be easy when you find the common things you have the Christian in Russia and the USA and then you have the Lib's in the USA and the commies in Russia Both peoples have a lot in common.
The od balls out are the mulsums who want no dancing and no wine or drink and no swimsuits on women no art and so many other things we Both love. The mulsums are not only willing to take these things from us but destroy us and kill ours to get what they want so in the end it is fight or die?
Like 2 high school football teams who are alway against each other from the same town the school always cheers for their team. Then the Teams go to the same collage and soon find they are on the same team and cheer together.
Posted by: Catherine at December 22, 2005 12:23 AM
Morgane: " ... but tell me when was the
last time America gave up any of its land??"
The United States gave up the Panama Canal Zone in 1999. We gave up the Philippines in 1954 (gave them independence). We turned over Okinawa and Iwo Jima back to Japan--I don't recall the dates. We released all of Japan proper from occupation only a few years after World War II, not to mention West Germany. The U.S.territory of Puerto Rico has an open invitation for independence, or statehood, however they choose (so far, they have chosen the status quo). When the French asked us to remove our NATO forces in 1966, we left. When the Iraqis ask us to leave, we will. Etc. etc. etc. etc.
I think think that your categorical statement about supposed U.S. imperial behavior, is breathtaking in its blindness and utter falsehood.
at December 22, 2005 12:28 AM
Bohemond_1069 American Stendec Pythagoras jsla
Dearie me -I seem to have ruffled a few feathers of the Bald headed Eagle. If Russia is NOT awake
after these heated debates she must sleep like Rip Van Winkle or a Bear in hibernation...
The Cold War may be over but prejudice alas lives
on. I invite each one of you to meet and make a
Russian friend - I already have an American friend who condemns America's foreign policies but for your sakes I will look for a gungho, anti Ruskie American - this may be difficult as we tend to get mainly liberals here but I will try.
What could be fairer than this. We will compare
experiences in six months time.
at December 22, 2005 2:44 AM
Morgane,
I have quite a few Russian friends, but as
they all came to America, and are Americans now
(more patriotic than a lot of the native born
that I know) they may not be what you are
thinking of, any more than the expat Yanks who
hate America (I met many in Europe) are
representative. So while it is a good idea to
make friends, I doubt that your proposed exercise
will provide much enlightenment.
The Russians I met here would say the Soviet Union was an evil empire. Even those who are not
fans of the US (like Solzhenitsyn) clearly prefer
it to the USSR.
at December 22, 2005 10:34 AM
Kentim: The USA gave the USSR no green, red, or amber light to Germany to start WWII. The European war started when Stalin and Hitler made their famous pact re the Baltic states and Poland, which in 1939 brought the partition of Poland and the Soviet annexation of Estonia, Latvia, anfd Lithuania. Both Moscow and Berlin in those days had plenty of plots and plans of their own in which the hopelessly mongrelized and capitalistic Americans played little role (save to be kept as reserve scapegoats should things go wrong--and people were tired of using the Brits for the same thing).
Maybe the whole problem with the present-day Islamic world is that it is too steeped in self-righteous, we-can-do-no-wrong worldviews of the kind the Germans and Russians wallowed in for much of the 20th century. Had they taken a few more lessons from the "hypocritical", "uptight", "non-spontaneous", and "Reactionary" Anglo-Saxon powers they might have imbibed a bit of Puritanism which looks at the corrup heart of the self first when things go wrong.
Posted by: Kepha at December 22, 2005 11:13 AM
American
Am pleased to hear that you do have Russian friends and better still they have INTEGRATED and
are patriots - nothing wrong in that.NOT FOR A MOMENT DO I ENDORSE COMMUNISM.One of my friends is an elderly lady originally from the Ukraine - she was forced to flee to Romania when Stalin's policies and persecution killed millions of Ukrainians - to this day she does not know what happened to the rest of her family.What I'm saying is we ought to try and build bridges,also
understand the Russian people and hopefully form a strong alliance with them. One of my brothers has married a delightful Russian woman and has willingly adopted her child born of a previous relationship. She and her son, like your friends,
has had no difficulty INTEGRATING.
at December 22, 2005 12:20 PM
Morgane, you haven't ruffled my feathers a bit. I just want to point out some things you may have overlooked to help set the record straight and give a fairer, more balanced picture. I have several Russian friends. They congratulated me when the US was able to do in 6 months in Afghanistqan what the Soviet Union could not do in 10 years, i.e., defeat the Taliban and run out the Saudi/al-queda foreigners controlling things there. The USA has never forceably occupied a country and forced them to relinquish their people, land or resources as many other conquerers have. All we have asked for is enough land to bury our dead. Germany and Japan are good examples. We did not do to Germany what they did to Poland and Czechoslovakia, or what Japan did to Korea and China, for example. When we were attacked on 911 we did not retaliate by nukeing Mecca and Medina. Even now Iraq and Afghanistan have Islamic constitutions. Women can vote and go to school in those countries where they were forbidden to before. People are free to listen to what they want on radio and tv. They can critisize the government without fear of the secret police taking them and their families away. I know my country isn't perfect, but I've been to a lot of other countries and there are a lot of them that are worse than us, and none I've found that are as good. Merry Christmas.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at December 22, 2005 1:53 PM
Well, I see that my note about the title has gone unremarked. Okay.
Therefore, I'll try to think of it as a slight rewrite, something along the lines of "Vosstan', Rossiya, i Vni, i Vnemli." The allusion to a different kind, a pushkinian kind, of Prophet is welcome here, but caspita! Yes, Gasparov, I know. There's that extra syllable, and the faltering scansion. But what can I do? It's Rossiya or Rus. Too much or too little. Take your pick.
Posted by: Hugh at December 22, 2005 4:23 PM
Hi Kepha,
I too was referring to the Ribbontrop- Molotov pact.
at December 22, 2005 6:51 PM
PS -- Morgane, you are inane...
Posted by: jsla at December 22, 2005 7:13 PM
Posted by: Morgane at December 22, 2005 02:44 AM
Most people don't care about Russia they have no problem with buying Russian OIL but have a Problem with Drilling in ANWAR.Which is NUTS!!
The Russians have done Bad things and the USA has done what they thought to be right and turned out to be wrong Like Kossovo NOW WE HAVE THE SAME ENEMY! We can Stand Together and Fight and Win or Lose this war It is our choice I PICK FIGHT TOGETHER AND WIN!!!
If we need to go back to statas quo Fine with me BUT I AINT WEARING NO BURKA!!
I am sick of the Hate America Crowd do you live every day thinking about all your mistakes or PRESS ON??
I have met many from the old USSR and they want a better life Just like all Americans and yes they rout for their team as I do mine but they also have no problem Drinking My Lemon Chello!!
As for their Wine Maybe after a long cold night it taste good???
AS for people getting over things I have been spit on in Italy by an Old lady who could not get over her loss in WW2 yet her Son was ashame but protecive of his mother as he should have been!!
Did I have a Problem NO!!
This war has been declared on all non-mulsums and even some mulsums so are you going to fight or just complain and when they pull you out of your house and rape you and cut you up Who will come to your aid after all the bashing?
Bleslain did happen not because they were Russian but because they were not mulsums!!
Help the Russian People have their Pride, but in doing so you do not have to Take the American Pride away from her!!
Both Teams have a right to have their Pride and win this War together Yes in Winning Both Teams will win and the Enemy will lose!!!!
The Democrats Bost that Bush lost Last night WELL THEY ARE WRONG IT WAS NOT BUSH WHO LOST BUT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO THE THE DEMOCRATS SCREWED!!!
Yes they have left the American People Venerable to OPEC??
Who are OPEC??
Is there no way the President can sign an Ex Oder to drill in ANWAR after all Clinton sighned and oder to stop Coal Minning in Utha??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP TOGETHER AND DESTROY THIS ENEMY AMEN
PS
8 more die from the Bird flue and Tamiflue didn't work on 4 That will make your head spin so are they saying only 4 got tamiflue??
at December 22, 2005 7:49 PM
Bohemond_1069
Congratulations on having Russian friends.
Merry Christmas to you
jsla
Move outside your comfort zone and cultivate a Russian Sunflower.
Merry Christmas to you
Catherine Sweetie
Think you have been imbibing too much Festive cheer but what the Hell its that time of the year...
Merry Christmas to you
at December 23, 2005 2:13 AM
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