Commentators on the sudden discovery of a Muslim menace within Europe have limited themselves to discussing the "multiculturalist" British model as compared to the "unversalist" French model. How very eurocentric. There are other models. There is, for example, the Japanese model, which essentially prevents almost all foreigners from being considered Japanese, and certainly not fit for citizenship. There is much to deplore in that model. But one thing cannot be deplored: the Japanese model of not permitting outsiders permanently in has, when it comes to stopping the Jihad in its local tracks, its points.

Posted by: Hugh at December 30, 2005 12:33 PM

Sure the Japanese model has points, but it's way
over the top.

The solution for pluralistic societies is simple,
but most people are too stuck in a strange loop
to figure it out. It's muslims that are the problem,
not anyone else, so until that obvious fact is
accepted, people blather on like idiots about
whatever their pet peeve is; different races,
different political parties, how their own religion or lack of one is best, etc., etc.

The first step is to accept that islam has a big
"tolerance" problem, and you can't tolerate
people that intolerant, who are plotting to undo
the foundations of the society. Ship them all out,
even the ones born here.

Posted by: American at December 30, 2005 1:06 PM

Hugh

Rare point of disagreement. With respect to the Japanese you state:

"There is, for example, the Japanese model, which essentially prevents almost all foreigners from being considered Japanese, and certainly not fit for citizenship. There is much to deplore in that model."

First, Japan, an island nation has a hugh population density problem. There just isn't much space for people there. It is hard for the Japanese government to protect the remaining open countryside from development. Japanese live like such sardines that it is hard to convince them that they "need" more people.

Second, Japan has a unique culture which is very difficult for outsiders to adapt to and blend in to. American culture is much looser, much more "live and let live" and "whatever, Dude."Japanese culture is charactertized by MUCH HEAVIER and TIGHTER interconnections and complex social relationships among people.

Lastly, I will admit that I am an admirer of traditional Japanese culture: painting, sculpture, fabric art and literature. I would like to see it preserved as an important cultural tradition.

Why don't the Japanese have a right to preserve THEIR culture from dilution? There are aspects of Japanese culture which are literally 1,000's of years old. Why shouldn't the Japanese be allowed to protect their culture from dilution by massive influx of foreigners?

You may point out that they have an aging population and that their economy may need the influx of young people. I think that there are ways to solve that problem without adding the problems of foreign populations on a very overcrowded island nation.

As Americans well know, our previous waves of immigrants were met with a local American culture that demanded that new immigrants become American and leave behind any traditions that CONFLICTED with American values and laws. New immigrants were allowed to keep traditions and customs that DID NOT conflict with American values. Polygamy has to go. Potato latkes, saki and Ouzo are welcome.

In generaly I highly apreciate your work, Hugh, so let me take this opportunity to thank you for your efforsts.

Posted by: Athena at December 30, 2005 1:18 PM

Athena, great points in your post. One of the complaints against those that want to keep national cultural identities and not turn into a multicultural tower of Babel, is that without multiculturalism a society is not dynamic. Well, I don't thing anyone would claim that the Japanese are backwards savages. It's not multiculturalism that makes a country dynamic, but the culture of the country. The problem with multiculturalism is that it results in several different groups with different world views that conflict at very fundamental levels.

Posted by: Terrahawk at December 30, 2005 1:57 PM

You mean to tell me they have muslims communities in Japan? I wouldn't believe it.

Anyway, Japan (and China and Russia and Iran)is a great argument against whoever brings multiculturalism as a generator of dynamism and of the outmost importance of cultural diversity. If the rest of the world doesn't need to let foreigners stay foreginers once they have settled in their host country, why should we, here, in the West?

Posted by: Elliot at December 30, 2005 3:16 PM

As one who regularly follows the news in Japan (my wife is from the southern island)let me inform everyone that Japan does have an illegal alien problem. Mostly they come from Korea (both), China, Philippines, but some have been apprehended coming from Afghanistan, other Islamic countries, and S. America. A considerable amount of crime is now being committed by "foreigners". It does not surprise me that Muslims would want to immigrate to Japan, another peaceful, Buddhist country like say, Thailand. I would hope the Japanese would put an end to any Muslim immigration but they won't for fear of offending someone.

Caratacus

Posted by: Caratacus at December 30, 2005 3:50 PM

This is a book length subject, and one day if I have the time, I may write it. I at least hope to read it one day, because Modern Japan, a country that held its valuable traditions while having the toxic ones extracted, is a model for West non-West relations, or rather, tradition and modernity.

In brief, my opinion:

Japan's xenophobia is highly overrated. In fact, most Japanese are what I would consider rational when it comes to foreigners, though that rationality sounds prejudiced in PC speak. In Japan, a foreigner can become a Japanese citizen only after years and years of assimilation to the cultural norms, adult fluency in the language (that means the mastery of over 1,800 Chinese characters), and a spotless record.

America is a different country with a different mission, but one area it might learn from Japan is in respecting its own culture and reserving the honor of citizenship to those who display true loyalty and dedication.

I don't see the Muslim community here as particularly radical. Mostly emrchants. However, I do not see them as classic "moderates," ie those who will do absolutely nothing while members of their comunity plot and execute evil and, once done, will blame Bush for insitigating terror.

I do see Japan as capable morally and practically of rounding up the entire Muslim community (I would guess Japanese citizen Muslims is a very small number) and shipping them out immediately after a domestic terror attack.

Japanese can be radical and sometimes anti American, certainly naieve, but they are not a particularly Moonbatty people; the Japanese will not wring their hands over a group of people who are demonstrating hatred for them. This is a lesson the West needs to learn ASAP if there is to be a West in the 22nd century.

Posted by: tokyobk at December 30, 2005 7:19 PM

"Hugh

Rare point of disagreement. With respect to the Japanese you state:

"There is, for example, the Japanese model, which essentially prevents almost all foreigners from being considered Japanese, and certainly not fit for citizenship. There is much to deplore in that model.'"
-- from a posting above

Immediately after the sentence "There is much to deplore in that model" quite a different sentiment is expressed. Which do you think corresponds more closely to my own beliefs? Perhaps we do not disagree as much as you think, even here.

Posted by: Hugh at December 30, 2005 7:59 PM

Terrahawk, you hit the nail right on the head.

"It's not multiculturism that makes a country dynamic, but the culture of that country."

Japanese culture is dynamic. French culture has always been dynamic; just think of French fashion, cinema etc. Muslims in France will make France less dynamic.

American culture is dynamic, but is it solely due to immigration or is there something about America which makes it such a dynamic country?

Australia has had loads of immigration since World War 2, but is Australia as dynamic as America? I don't think so. That's just my personal opinion. Of course you have to define dynamic, but to me it seems that certain countries have a certain "je ne sais quoi", that perhaps other countries don't have.

I think that the problem with so much immigration, is that people saw America as a land built upon immigration, and so thought that if they had as much immigration then they could be as dynamic as America.

But Britain with it's class system, and France wtih it's in-built snobbery, perhaps weren't going to be good places to re-invent themselves as a land of immigrants.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 30, 2005 8:32 PM

What Japan could do would be to declare muslims as a nationality, and so treat ALL muslims including the Japanese converts as illegal aliens.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 30, 2005 8:42 PM

This is news to me - Japan having a Muslim population. I used to be under the impression that East Asia - Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Taiwan etc are devoid of Muslims. So much for that.

I don't think Japan would have any problems profiling Muslims should a domestic terrorist attack take place. Also, since it is very difficult for foreigners to become Japanese, it's much easier for them to screen out potential suspects. And I doubt there would be many Japanese wanting to embrace Islam, since Shintoism is still strong in that country.

Athena

I pretty much agree w/ you re: their right to their own culture. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to expect a foreigner to assimilate into Japanese culture before citizenship is granted. I believe that if a foreign kid is born and raised in Japan, then that kid is likely to be familiarized w/ Japanese culture, and won't be denied citizenship.

Not to draw odius comparisons, but that is very different from the Arab countries, where several generations can live in a particular country, and not get citizenship.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at December 31, 2005 1:28 AM

Hugh

Apolgies, I think I may have been hasty and not read carefully enough.

Again, please accept my congratulations on great work here at jihad/dhimmi watch.

Athena

Posted by: Athena at December 31, 2005 1:09 PM