I didn't pass around any sweets while hundreds of people I have never met died violent deaths - and if I did I would be more like Hamza than I feel comfortable with - but I do welcome the fact that whenever anything like this happens, from the stampede to the tsunami, the imams waste no time in revealing to the world what a bunch of malevolant and dangerous bigots they are. In an ideal world sites like this wouldn't be needed, and the muslim world would do our job for us just by opening their mouths unfettered and instantly alienating all humans of intelligence and good will.

I recall a television 'debate' after 9-11 on the BBC (what was there to debate?) during which one muslim panellist repeatedly tried to assert that no Jews had been killed in the twin towers, and that the whole thing was the work of the joos etc. Unfortunately, the chairwoman kept cutting him off and did not allow him to articulate his views before the nation.

Why protect these people from the scorn that their views deserve? Can anyone tell me why? It's not because of muslim pressure, it's something in the media, something in the west, something suicidal, which I don't understand. Does anyone understand why we do this?

Posted by: religion_of_peas at January 14, 2006 6:38 AM

It will be interesting to see if the English judiciary & politicians have found their courage and sentence this typical example of an Islamic cleric back to whatever hellhole he or his ancestors came from.

Giving him a prison sentence in the UK with its opportunity to proselytise and convert will just make him a "pseudomartyr" and is just looking for more trouble.

I do think that western governments should all build Guantanamo Bay style prisions just for jihadists so that they do not contaminate the rest of society.

A real pity that the west is too soft to inflict upon this man what he would have muslims do to westerners.

Let's pass a fatwa on this fellow ourselves:

May he rot inside a pigs carcase until burnt in the fires of hell.

Posted by: Zathras at January 14, 2006 8:29 AM

Abu Hamza is obviously such a nice man I understand why Britain has taken so long to get anything on him. (sarcasm)

Why are they messing about for so long he's a vicious,malign thing not fit to be called man or animal who needs to be wiped from the world.
Unfortunately if found guilty, the taxpayers will have to support him, as they probably already support his family. By the way, in that family, the children will already be thoroughly poisoned and getting ready to be the next generation of vipers that Britain has clutched to her bosom.

At the very least Britain has to do a lot more expelling

Posted by: marilyn at January 14, 2006 8:41 AM

Hamza: "Killing a kuffar (unbeliever) who is fighting you is OK. Killing a kuffar for any reason, you can say it is OK even if there is no reason for it."

Even if there is no reason for it? Well, they are disbelievers...is that reason enough? The worst possible sin is disbelief in or denial of Allah (10:17, 11:18-19, 18:15, 18:57, 29:68, 32:22, 39:32, 61:7). Disbelief or turning away from Allah is a persecution worse than warfare (2:217) or slaughter (2:191) of Muslims. (for a discussion of 2:191, see http://www.faithfreedom.org/faq/70.htm ).

I have written an article on this at
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_peace.html

Disbelief constitutes mischief/corruption, see Shamoun's discussion of mischief "fasad" in the context of 5:32 and 5:33 in this article (scroll down)
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/badawi_tolerance.htm

Abul Kasem shows that 5:32 does not forbid killing disbelievers; it forbids murder of Muslims.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem50808.htm

Finally, anyone who's read Sura 9 knows the final policy with regard to killing disbelievers (kill, convert, subjugate; 9:5-6, 9:29, 9:33.

Posted by: Archimedes at January 14, 2006 8:59 AM

The Holocaust is a punishment from their god, Allah not the Judeo-Christian God. Read the Koran, Allah would definately do such a thing, me-think that Allah goes under a different name in the Judeo=Christian bible, such as deceiver, Satan etc.

Posted by: FIVEOFNINE at January 14, 2006 9:37 AM

Has anybody read this same testimony in the MSM? BBC,New York Times Etc.?

Posted by: Mackie at January 14, 2006 10:05 AM

here is a good newsletter at www.tothepointnews.com.
you can get on their free email list or subscribe.

"To The Point News

STANDING UP TO MOSLEM BULLIES
Written by Dr. Jack Wheeler
Friday, 13 January 2006

Remember when you were a kid in grade school, and if you really want to show contempt for someone you’d say, “He can dish it out but he can’t take it”? Moslems are like that.

They can dish out insults to infidels, arrest Christians for praying in Saudi Arabia, confiscate their Bibles and throw them in the trash, call Jews pigs and monkeys, and spit on the whole human race that isn’t Moslem. But they go into frenzies of righteous outrage at the slightest criticism of their history and beliefs.

Because a newspaper in Denmark, the Jyllands-Posten, circulation 158,000, published a dozen cartoons of Mohammed, the Organization of the Islamic Conference representing 57 Moslem countries issued a statement on January 1st, 2006, claiming “hundreds of millions of Moslems around the world” are offended.

Last week, the foreign ministers of the 22-nation Arab League demanded an apology from the Danish government.

Not only did Danish Prime Minister Anders Rasmussen refuse to apologize, he refused to meet with a delegation of eleven Ambassadors from Moslem countries who wanted to “discuss” the controversy.

Now there’s a hero for the Western World – the kind of guy you wanted beside you in a confrontation with schoolyard bullies."

Read more...

Posted by: listen to realanswers.net at January 14, 2006 10:11 AM

listen to realanswers.net:

Unfortunately, I believe Rasmussen has been giving in to the unrelenting whining of the "how dare you insult us" muslim crowd who believe they are better than the rest of the world, after all they are the religion of peace.

One does not have to look far to see the cartoons that are made in the Islamic press, mostly attacking Jews in the ugliest light possible.

Posted by: Mackie at January 14, 2006 11:13 AM

The moon god "al-ilah" (the "chief among all gods' - Serge Trifkovic's "Sword of the Prophet") as Muhammad's 'Allah' has a certain bit of schizophrenic irony, I think.

The status of women under Islam, when the moon -- in both Astrology and to most non-muslims -- represents the feminine principle.

Peculiar sort of 'consistency' which seems to be inextricably interwoven throughout their religious philosophy.

Something like Jerry Seinfeld's "Bizarro world" musings, except that Seinfeld's is both comedic and almost makes sense.

Posted by: Merry Whitney at January 14, 2006 11:25 AM

If the Holocaust was a myth, then the God who did it is obviously a myth as well.

Let us thank Hamzip for spilling the Islamic beans about the nature of their deity.

(Nice defense he makes for Hitler's strategic reprisal against the betraying Jews "who were helping the allies", all while he's uncreating Allah... this guy's priceless and should probably be given a seperate Channel on the BBC so he can "educate" the dhimmi West about the true core cult of the Koranic killers.)

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 14, 2006 11:27 AM

“Every time they lit the fire for war God has put it out. And this is the imminent result and this is a universal result too. Hitler looked at their dealings and their treachery. They wanted to deceive him in his war. Some were dealing with the Allies against him."

It is frightening just how many Europeans secretly believe the rubbish that Jews deserve what they had coming to them.

Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at January 14, 2006 11:28 AM

Has anybody read this same testimony in the MSM? BBC,New York Times Etc.?,/i>

I had FoxNews on all day yesterday while working at home and they've decided to black out the trial entirely. They had a great segment on romantic relationsihps over the noon hour, though.

Also, my local Eyewitness News has also decided that the Hamza trial isn't happening.

FICTIVE REALITY FICTIVE REALITY FICTIVE REALITY FICTIVE REALITY FAKEFAKE

The blackout is of course one of the primary tools of the opinion programmer. For example, the Wahhabi-owned FoxNews couldn't find time for Hamza yesterday, but they repeated trivial stories dozens of time during the day.

Shepard Smith: The G Block.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 14, 2006 11:38 AM

How does this "eyesore" explain his own maimed body?

Posted by: Sylvie1 at January 14, 2006 1:07 PM

"Hitler looked at their dealings and their treachery. They wanted to deceive him in his war. Some were dealing with the Allies against him.

“So he killed them and punished them and this is a sunna (Islamic rule). And they will be inflicted with that again when the stones and the Sharia start talking to the Muslim — you the worshipper of God . . . This is a Jew dealing in usury, so come and kill him.'"

And they claim it is a smear to call radical muslims "islamo-fascists."

This is the voice of an insane, Hitler-like fanatic who wants to kill everyone who is not part of his (religious) "master race."

Killing this hate-freakzoid because he would kill others without hestiation would only make him a martyr. Expelling him from the UK would be like letting an ebola virus loose. The only solution is solitary confinement for life without the possibility of parole.

Posted by: Redhand at January 14, 2006 1:08 PM

Anti-Semitic attack goes unheeded

http://www.ejpress.o...

"Four adolescents beat up two 11-year-old Jewish kids in a Paris suburb without sparking any reaction from passers-by. Police arrested them shortly after the attack.

Joel A. and Levy A., two orthodox Jewish boys, were waiting for their bus in the Paris suburb of Creteil on Monday evening when they were attacked by four 16- and 17-year-old adolescents, according to Samy Gozlan from the Vigilance Bureau against anti-Semitism."

Here comes the kicker:

"Synagogue vandalised

The Vigilance bureau against anti-Semitism condemned the attack but praised the quick and efficient police work. The four thugs spent 48 hours in police office cells.

The Vigilance bureau asked for severe measures against them.

Last Friday, before dawn, a 21-year-old man vandalised a synagogue in the northern suburb of Sarcelles. In that incident as well, police caught the vandal while he was still in the synagogue.

The man, originally from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, graffitied anti-Semitic inscriptions such as “Jews out” and “death to Ariel Sharon” on a synagogue wall."

Do ya think he learned Jew hatred in the "democratic" Congo?

Je ne crois pas.

Posted by: scribe10 at January 14, 2006 1:37 PM

Try this link instead for the above story:

http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/france/5155#

Posted by: scribe10 at January 14, 2006 1:38 PM

Do ya think he learned Jew hatred in the "democratic" Congo?

Ain't the Moslems taking over the Congo, too? I mean, as they go through the motion of mop-up operations in Nigeria I would assume that they're spreading the invitation to join Islam to nearby states.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 14, 2006 1:48 PM

Product idea: inspired by the cartoon imbroglio, how about urinal cakes in the likeness of Mohammed?

Posted by: dfobare at January 14, 2006 2:55 PM

No, ya wanna do the toilet paper with a surah printed on each panel. That goes deeper to the heart of Islam and the soul of the Moslem.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 14, 2006 3:22 PM

Was there or wasn't there a holocaust? Does it matter to Abu Hamza and his kind? After all, they have a god who can lie, contradict himself, and admit injustice. However, I supect that in Abu Hamza's warped mind it wasn't really a holocaust since the nazis only killed six million and didn't get them all.

During the 1969 trial of California cult leader and mass-murderer Charles Manson, his followers testified that he often said that "Hitler was just levelling the karma of the Jews".

Abu Hamza and Charles Manson: Birds of a feather!

Posted by: Provoslavni at January 14, 2006 3:47 PM

That "usury" claim gets me. After all, the Muslims have been financially exploiting the dhimmis for more than a thousand years. And not just with jizya and kharaj, but with all sorts of shakedowns, compulsory bribes, exactions, unofficial taxes, and so on. The original version of George Cukor's Justine shows how the shakedown --made through threats-- was carried out in Egypt. The film was fiction of course based on Lawrence Durrell's Alexandria Quartet novels. But I have an account by a Greek monk of similar extortion in Jerusalem in the 1820s during the Greek uprising.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/09/arabs-in-israel-with-ottoman-sultan.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/arab-reaction-in-land-of-israel-to_11.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/repercussions-in-israel-in-1821-of.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/repercussions-of-greek-revolt-in-land.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/repercussions-of-greek-revolt-in.html
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/10/repercussions-of-greek-revolt-in_26.html

Now as to "usury" specifically, the Ashkenazi Jewish congregation in Jerusalem in the early 18th century took out loans from Arab-Muslim moneylenders in the city. When the congregation could not pay back the loans that had been given at usurious interest, the creditors rioted and burnt down the synagogue in 1730.

Posted by: Eliyahu at January 14, 2006 6:19 PM

"Abu Hamza told a group of people that shoplifting and theft by Muslims from non-believers was permitted. Students were not required to repay loans and identity fraud by Muslim refugees was allowed..."
--- from a posting above

The amount of crime, from cigarette smuggling to false documents of every kind, to car theft, to whatever else could be engaged, that the American government discovered in connection with its investigations since 9/11/2001, have certainly astounded. In Italy, Muslims and the drug trade are synonymous; in Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark), 70% of the rapes are committed by Muslim immigrants, convinced that Western women are fair game.

I won't bother with France -- just go to one of the French websites that shows crime statistics and the faces of France's Most Wanted and the picture will be clear. In Australia the Sydney "Lebanese" (i.e. Lebanese Muslim) gang-rapes of girls who were taunted for being "Aussies" (i.e. Infidels) are known even outside Australia. And so on, as one proceeds through all the Infidel lands.

It cannot be otherwise. Infidel lands do not belong to the Infidels. They dominate them temporarily. It is unjust for Infidels anywhere to resist the Call to Islam. They must not, for the world belongs to Allah and to the best of peoples, the Muslims. Islam is "to dominate and not to be dominated."

So the Western girls can be raped. The stores can be stolen from. Houses can be burglarized. The dogs -- literally, dogs -- of the Infidels, being unclean to most Muslims, can be tormented or killed. Who cares?

This cannot, apparently, be said at Interpol meetings. It cannot be raised, as yet, by local police. But just look at what Hamza preaches. Nothing unusual there. Nothing that would not make sense to true Believers willing to admit, at least among themselves, to the truth.

If you seek the reasons for the fantastic rate of criminality attributed by Western police statistics to Muslims living in the Infidel midst, start with the attitudes toward Infidel property, and Infidel women, that come directly from tenets, and attitudes, and atmospherics, of Islam.

Posted by: Hugh at January 14, 2006 6:30 PM

In other passages from his lectures, the court heard Abu Hamza telling his audience that they were allowed to kill non-Muslims. “Killing a kuffar (unbeliever) who is fighting you is OK. Killing a kuffar for any reason, you can say it is OK even if there is no reason for it."

He needs to come to America and find justice.

The Bible tells us that murder is wrong, but the Bible also tells us as Christians and Jews that we have a responsibility to protect our families, country and religion from those that wish to do us harm and when we use lethal force it is not murder but justified.

The war is coming.

Posted by: Texican at January 14, 2006 8:01 PM

Anyone who has compared the Bible with the Koran
will agree that the Koran was basically plagerized
from the Bible. Hence the coming of the 12th Imman which was taken from the second coming of Christ in the Bible.

Abu Hamza needs to read the Bible because in the end times the Arabs and Russians get "toasted" supernaturally by none other than God after they attack Israel. The death and destruction will be so great that it takes seven years to bury all the bodies. It is called the Gog-Magog War.

Posted by: learjet0450 at January 14, 2006 9:46 PM

Eliyahu,

Your posting above of the http://ziontruth.blogspot.com links to the account by a Greek monk of extortion in Jerusalem in the 1820s was excellent. I printed them out and hope I have your permission to use these as a source in the high school class I teach in world history.

It is these kinds of "real human experience" accounts that make history come alive for young people. If it subtly opens their eyes to make comparisons with the situation today, even better!

Posted by: Provoslavni at January 14, 2006 11:06 PM

Thanx, Pravo. I glad that you can use the material for educational purposes.

Posted by: Eliyahu at January 15, 2006 1:20 AM

Forgot to mention that whenever Arabs/Muslims either deny or belittle the Holocaust or claim that it was Allah's punishment for the Jews, it is helpful to remind them of the Arab-Muslim role in the Holocaust, specifically that of Haj Amin el-Husseini, British-appointed mufti of Jerusalem. Besides, there were pro-Nazi persecutions and massacres of the Jews in Iraq, Libya, etc., plus Bosnian Muslim and Kossovo Muslim SS troops, also massacring, etc.
Just google:
"amin el-husseini" + "arab-nazi collaboration"

You can't let them get away with any of their falsifications of history.

Posted by: Eliyahu at January 15, 2006 5:06 AM

Eliyahu:

In one sense the nazis learned from the Muslims:

It's been reported that when Hitler first proposed his final solution, he was told that the world would never permit such a mass murder. Hitler silenced his advisers by asking, "Who remembers the Armenians?"

Although this story may be apocryphal it has a ring of truth.

Posted by: Provoslavni at January 16, 2006 2:01 AM

"Has anybody read this same testimony in the MSM? BBC,New York Times Etc.?"

In fact the BBC has fairly full coverage: see http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=newsukfs&tab=news&q=hamza&go.x=38&go.y=14&go=go.
One does get a pretty fair idea of the charming ideas of the religion of peace from it.

On the other hand, I was disappoined by this AP feed http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8F5DO1O9.html which really gives no idea of the vile nature of pretty much all Hamza says.

On a related note, I have not seen any mention of the French attack in the UK papers (though I did not look too hard). More serious is that there was no mention of the knife attack on worshippers at a synagogue in Moscow, in which several people were wounded by some kind of skinhead type. One can be sure that a lesser attack on Muslims anywhere in the world would have frontpage headlines in the UK!

Posted by: philiph35 at January 16, 2006 3:17 AM

theses pre-human beasts"

"I ran out of sweets to pass around as the death toll rose!!"

There quite a funny contradiction there: you consider them pre-human beasts, and then you say this. It's a shame you weren't in the Twin Towers the 9/11, at the place an innocent citizen who was not a complete piece of trash like yourself.

As for the rest of the idiocies written in this thread, like the fact Hitler needed Islam to commit the genocide, they are not really worth answering (I would have to spend all day on this forum anyway). I could search the biblical verse Hitler used to justify the Holocaust, but I don't really have the time.

So, eliyahu, still this obsession witht the Muslims, eh? It's a shame you don't remember who welcomed your people when they were expulsed from Spain and the other European countries. Christians? Hum, no. I am not sure if you realize what is the reason your people is still alive today. I also wonder if you are aware of the love Europe showed for your people throughout the time.

But then, have no fear: say the Holocaust was due to Islam, and that without Islam, it wouldn't have happened, and continue saying how Muslims support Hitler because there was some support for Hitler in some Muslim countries (like there was in Christian Europe as well), and then say how "we can't let them get away with their falsifications of history".

Hilarious.

Posted by: Ispanan at January 16, 2006 8:31 AM

Question!

Which religious fanatic made the following statement?

"The nazis didn't kill gratuitly those 6 millions unfortunate jews. They were the reincarnation of souls who had sinned and done things they shouldn't have done."

a) The Dalai Lama
b) Ayatollah Khomeini
c) A Shas ultraortodox Jew
d) The Patriarch of Constantinople

Correct answer: c)

This theory is not new, nor original among the Islamic extremists. The theory of "Jurban", the holocaust as a punishment from God, is purely jewish.

I think this is enough.

Posted by: Ispanan at January 16, 2006 8:38 AM

"I could search the biblical verse Hitler used to justify the Holocaust, but I don't really have the time..."

Yes -- you don't because that would take forever, you ignorant lying Muslim scum...

"It's a shame you weren't in the Twin Towers the 9/11..."

Thanks again for showing what a hate filled venomous spider you are, oh pious Muslim... Scum incarnate...

Although a dedicated agnostic, the existence of Islam and Muslims almost makes me believe in Satan...

Posted by: jsla at January 17, 2006 3:41 PM