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In Islamic theology traditionally the forces of jihad ask for a truce when they are weak and need to gather strength. Hmmmm. From AP:
Al-Jazeera on Thursday aired an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden, who says al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offering a truce "with fair conditions."...He said insurgents were winning the conflict in Iraq and warned that security measures in the West and the United States could not prevent attacks there.
"The proof of that is the explosions you have seen in the capitals of European nations," he said "The delay in similar operations happening in America has not been because of failure to break through your security measures. The operations are under preparation and you will see them in your homes the minute they are through (with preparations), with God's permission."
The speaker did not give conditions for a truce in the excerpts aired by Al-Jazeera.
"We do not mind offering you a long-term truce with fair conditions that we adhere to," he said. "We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat. So both sides can enjoy security and stability under this truce so we can build Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been destroyed in this war."
ADDENDUM: I have been asked to provide details of the truce in Islamic law. Here is a passage from Umdat al-Salik (Reliance of the Traveller), a Shafi'i Sharia manual endorsed by Al-Azhar University in Cairo as conforming to the "practice and faith of the orthodox Sunni community":
Truces are permissible, not obligatory....Interests that justify making a truce are such things as Muslim weakness because of lack of numbers or materiel, or the hope of an enemy becoming Muslim...If the Muslims are weak, a truce may be made for ten years if necessary, for the Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace) made a truce with the Quraysh for that long, as is related by Abu Dawud....The rulings of such a truce are inferable from those of the non-Muslim poll tax; namely, that when a valid truce has been effected, no harm may be done to non-Muslims until it expires. -- Umdat al-Salik, o9.16
Posted by Robert at January 19, 2006 12:00 PM
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Sounds like a moderate Muslim to me...
Posted by: jsla![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 19, 2006 12:09 PM
"We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat."
Well, we know where this discussion is going...
Posted by: Chatillon at January 19, 2006 12:29 PM
How Stupid Will Infidels Be Department:
Will the Americans gratefully accept this generous offer by Bin Laden or someone impersonating him, to "build Iraq and Afghanistan" with American money, risking American lives, so that, having made them both better places, having thoroughly re-organized and re-trained to advanced standards (oh hell, let's throw in a lot of equipment too, shall we -- why not?), they can, as permanently Muslim countries, return better armed and better off -- thanks to those Americans tirelessly working away -- to the fold, to the camp, of Dar al-Islam.
How Stupid Will Those Infidels Be, in Washington, London, Paris, and so on, when they hear that they can get a temporary truce, or hudna, just so long as they keep building up Iraq and Afghanistan?
You know how stupid.
But perhaps, at long last, they will -- those whose duty it is to inform themselves, so as the better to protect and instruct -- surprise us.
Posted by: Hugh at January 19, 2006 12:32 PM
Will the current politicians of Iraq and Afghanistan show some backbone and remind their fellow Muslim, OBL, that peace and security and rebuilding can take place if HE and his thugs will stop the violence and mayhem that they continue in both countries. Could the leaders also ask OSB for a hefty contribution from his family fortune to pay for some of the rebuilding. American taxpayers would be grateful for that small gesture.
Posted by: maryrose at January 19, 2006 12:38 PM
Its simple math’s we are over there punishing them on a daily basis, you can only loose so many men and have so many bank accounts shut down and resources appropriated before your organization starts to crumble. We should increase the pressure by crushing the Iranian regime.
OT But I noticed some dhimmitude reporting from the BBC about Hamza. They are reporting how he is the most misunderstood character in Britain today and that he always gets called nasty names which hurts his feeeeeeeelings.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4628284.stm
Also could any British posters point me to some reputable news sources from the UK that are reporting on the case of Nick Griffin, the BNP chairman. I am not seeing anything of the trial on Al Beeb, just sucking up to Muzzies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4624774.stm
I checked the BNP site and it looks like Nick Griffin will be highlighting the juiciest aspects of the RoP in court.
http://www.bnp.org.uk/bnptv/bnptv.php
This should be interesting. Regardless of what you think of the party at least they are doing something useful here and raising the issue of Mohammed’s ideological engine of war and in a court of law no less.
You should never knock a gift horse in the mouth!
at January 19, 2006 12:39 PM
Sure Mr islamic faschist...
1. Mohammed stated it is ok to LIE Cheat and Steal.
2. Mohammed stated its fine to Kill wipe out and murder the non infidels
3. Every action of all the muslim terrorists each day proves what an evil religion Islam is..
4. Your master Mohammed Pork be on him stated his goals which is to wipe out all the jews and christians in an islamic orgy of murder rape and death..
5. Mohammed was fond of raping and torturing the women and little girls he captured in front of thier families..
Now were supposed to believe your a nice guy..
Now were supposed to believe Islam is a religion of Peace..
I will believe that when---->
I can build a church higher than a mosque without it being blown up.
I can bring a bible into saudi arabia without having my hands chopped off.
I can tell the truth about islam in saudi arabia without having my head chopped off by an islamo faschist terrorist..
I believe you when i see Islam DENOUNCE its plans of Genocide for the Jews..
When I see Muslims actually building something other than suicide vests..
When I see Muslims admit and apologize for all the CRIMES against HUMANITY..
When i see muslims not threatining all jews, christians, hindus , buddhists... with DEATH...
When i see ANYTHING GOOD comming from any islamic country..
When i see muslims not planning every day to kill american women and children..
When i see muslims not blowing up schools after raping the schooldgirls inside...
But this will never happen
As this IS ISLAM...
So to your master Mohammed (Pork be on him)
May he roast in HELL.
at January 19, 2006 12:39 PM
Umm, lets see. Can we really trust the words of an Islamic that trusts and obeys the koran? Lets see what the koran says about peace with infidels,
"Make ready your strength to the ultmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whomm Allah doth know." Sura 8:60
And didn't the prophet Muhammad have a truce with a Jewish tribe, the Banu Qaynuqa? A truce that he DID NOT HONOR!!! And didn't he set up Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf to be assassinated? By LYING to him? Something that you, bin Laden, claims is forbidden by Allah?
Nah, We'll take our chances with the attacks from the insurgents. According to history, you'll attack anyway!!! Truce or no truce. It's the Muslim way. Let "the rockets red glare!!!"
at January 19, 2006 12:41 PM
I knew this article was coming. That shows this website is working as intended.
Posted by: Benjamin at January 19, 2006 12:52 PM
It's all PR, this way by offering a "truce", his followers can spout that they tried dealing with the infidels to no avail. That ours is the ideology of hate and war and all the bad things and that IBL and his crew are "freedom fighters" for the average Joe Islamist. More of the same for the Islamafacist camp: smoke and mirrors and humans with bombs strapped to themselves.
Posted by: saywhat? at January 19, 2006 12:55 PM
You know how stupid.
Real stupid. Ivy League stupid. Fence post dumb stupid. Self-delusionally stupid. Self-congratulatory stupid.
But let's not get cocky here. We don't really yet know how stupid post-modern multicultural stupdity can get. Think of it as an exploratory spacecraft hurtling into the unexplored Galaxy Of Stupid.
Where she'll stop, nobody knows.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 19, 2006 12:58 PM
Islamafascist is what I meant to spell :)
Posted by: saywhat? at January 19, 2006 1:01 PM
to KM - you say we shouldn't look a gifthorse in the mouth, and I too look forward to hearing what Griffin of the BNP has to say about the religion of piss. However, I disagree with you fundamentally on two points.
Firstly, the BBC is reporting the Hamza trial fairly. I would be the first to criticize them here if they didn't. They reported the prosecution case fully and fairly, including generous quotations from his sermons which left us in no doubt that he is a violent and murderous jihadist. However, the trial has moved to the case for the defence now, and the BBC are merely reporting this side of the case based on the position taken by the defence team.
Secondly, as for the BNP: let's not forget that many people voted for the nazis as a protest, or to keep the communists out, or to restore law and order. They ended up with the Final Solution and tens of millions dead. Ask them if that was what they were voting for, or whether that seemed even remotely possible when they cast their votes.
Vote for Griffin because you despise islam? Fine, if you're willing to explain that to everyone when the muslims have been dealt with, and then they move on to the Jews, and the catholics, and the gypsies, and the Irish. Please don't allow people to make this mistake. There has to be a better way than allowing thugs and brain-dead racist neo-nazis to do our ideological work for us, surely.
Posted by: religion_of_peas at January 19, 2006 1:18 PM
further to my previous post, in the interests of fairness, the page you linked to regarding the Abu Hamza trial actually has links on the right which take you to reporting of the prosecution case, so your criticism is in this instance unfair.
Which is a surprise to me, believe me! The BBC will never get another penny of licence fee from me as long as I live - not unless they reorganise News and Current Affairs, kick out the anti-Israeli mafia currently running it, and issue a full and frank public apology for the tears that Barbara Plett shed live on air as Arafat the murdering scum was airlifted from his compound to Paris, during his final days.
Not one penny.
Posted by: religion_of_peas at January 19, 2006 1:26 PM
A Memo to Ousamah bin Looney Tunes:
There ACTUALLY IS a way to prevent Islamic terror attacks in the west. Huh? This CAN be done by outlawing Islam in all western democracies!!
Immediately thereafter the western democracies should expel all followers of the Islamic human sacrifice cult from all western territories.
And then, we can easily make sure the Islamic killer-Zombies do not (ever) get back in. With no mosques there will be (a lot) less incentive for them to come anyway.
That WILL work believe me. We should have done all this by now...
So, don't imagine we need your hudaibiya lies (or you), you human sacrifice specialist and Zombie-master, you!!! because we don't. Not at all.
Posted by: pythagoras at January 19, 2006 1:52 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/default.stm
Check out how many people are willing to negotiate with Bin Laden and accept a hudna (truce).
Posted by: SINGH at January 19, 2006 2:07 PM
I am so excited!
A government spokeperson on Fox news just said that BASED ON ISLAMIC HISTORY, Bin Laden's "offer" is no more then a trick to gain time to regroup!!!
Robert, dare I hope that your books have been seen in the right places?
Posted by: treehugger at January 19, 2006 2:09 PM
^^^^^
Here is the exact link.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=785&edition=1
Posted by: SINGH at January 19, 2006 2:10 PM
Comments on the bbc are just more proof the world is full of stupid people.
Posted by: fireangel at January 19, 2006 2:42 PM
bin Laden has to be dead.
If Zawahiri can make videos post Tora Bora and still gets dinner invitations...where does that leave bin Laden? Nothing from him in years.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 19, 2006 2:44 PM
Hmmm. There are some people who are positing that actually that Al Qaeda has lost the war, but they were pointing to the hysteria coming from the "anti-war" crowd, not OBL hizself.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article.asp?aid=12101025_1
a_plague:
Zawahiri may yet be alive, but apparently, one of his sons isn't. From BBC4:
Three al-Qaeda members were among those killed by a US missile strike last week in Pakistan, security officials say.
Among them was Midhat Mursi, an explosives expert who had a $5m reward offered for his capture.
Reports from Pakistan intelligence sources say that the other two al-Qaeda members killed in the attack were Abdul Rehman al-Misri al-Maghribi, Zawahiri's son-in-law, and Abu Obaidah al-Misri, al-Qaeda's head of operations in Kunar province, just over the border in eastern Afghanistan.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 19, 2006 2:50 PM
KM:
Support for the BNP will get you banned from JW. (I have often notified Spencer myself of such posts.)
Griffin is no "gift horse" but rather an extreme nationalist xenophobe without the skinhead hair stylings, clothes, tatoos and other affectations. Leaving Griffin and others like him (LePen) carry the anti-Jihad message in court or any other public forum will likely do the cause as much harm as good.
Defending the bigots who recognize the dangers of jihad (as opposed to the bigots who ignore the realities of jihad because they have been so effectively propagandized about Israel as to be blind) is to do so on the basis that even a broken clock is right about the time twice a day.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 19, 2006 3:10 PM
'WE ARE A NATION THAT GOD HAS FORBIDDEN TO LIE AND CHEAT'...
H'mm, that's a LIE for starters. Seems incredible that this guy who loves publicity and his mug appearing on our screens has been so reticent of late. Is the great 'Lion' of the Holy
Warriors too afraid to stick his head out of a cave for another photo shoot via Al Jazeera minions?? Or does he fear a unmanned drone will take him to Allah? Is Catherine's 'Yellow Man' alive or dead? Am sure Hollywood are working on the Movie version after the success of 'Paradise Now'.
at January 19, 2006 3:21 PM
I am so excited!
A government spokeperson on Fox news just said that BASED ON ISLAMIC HISTORY, Bin Laden's "offer" is no more then a trick to gain time to regroup!!!
Robert, dare I hope that your books have been seen in the right places?
Posted by: treehugger at January 19, 2006 02:09 PM
Is this true, today seems to be a good day for anti dhimmitude.
To religion of peas.
You are right that the BBC is giving both sides to the argument and I admit that in my mind Hamza is already guilty and should be being dealt with as an enemy combatant. But we are supposed to be a more advanced culture so give him his day in court. I just hope it doesn’t blow up in our faces when the bleeding heart liberals and Islamoapologists which seem to be running Britain let him off.
As for the BNP I don’t live in the UK, but many people who do tell me they are some form of Nazi party. But from where I am sitting they are the only political group in the UK that is even raising the specter of the Islamification of Britain (can you name one other political group that has done this, and I don’t mean wishy washy statements about immigration, I mean direct speeches made against the rampant Jihad sweeping Europe), Also I believe I am correct in thinking that they are a legitimate political group that can stand in elections so I am not quite ready to just write them off on quotes from left wing organizations like work unions and Searchlight.
I like you would hate see a repeat of 1930’s Germany in my ancestral home but this bothers me less than seeing Britain turn to Shaira law. I think like many people here that the demographic bomb (it is a WMD in my opinion) that has been unleashed on Europe by the Umma is the biggest threat Western civilization has ever faced. In the second world war we allied our selves with the communists on a scale of things I put support of the BNP on a par with this, unpleasant but probably necessary to guarantee victory.
I also believe that we are involved in a zero sum game here either we win or they win and in light of this I am prepared to use all the weapons at our disposal. It is a sad commentary on the British that liberalism and political correctness have crippled the culture to such a point that the only people who seem to be doing anything about it is the BNP. This really bothers me I just wish their was another real alternative out there, maybe you could tell me one?
I looked at the UKIP site but was unimpressed; they seem more concerned about Europe than Islam. In my mind Europe isn’t the enemy except the French of course.....this was a joke BTW. I was encouraged to see they had a vote going on to decide what should be their next major policy and immigration was leading by a long way. Still immigration is something different than tackling Islam.
at January 19, 2006 3:59 PM
"...so we can build Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been destroyed in this war."
More caves, perhaps? Deeper and deeper caves? Maybe our hero has noticed that the deeper he digs, the hotter it gets.
Gee, what a concept though. Why didn't Al Capone offer a truce to the Feds, or Jeffery Dahmer or any number of miscreants? Forgive me Osama, but your suggestion is as good an operative definition of chutzpah as I've heard in a while.
Posted by: Chatillon at January 19, 2006 4:24 PM
Hudna -- an Islamic-style truce. Think of a coach or team captain calling a time out. He's not interested in conceding the game. He's thinking about how to adjust team members and team strategy to win.
Islamic-style truce, or hudna, is merely a time out. Instead of a minute or two, the Koran mandates that the hudna should last no more than ten years. The purpose is to regroup, recruit, and strategize in order to carry on the fight. The "game" lasts as long as necessary to win -- to create a triumphal Islam throughout the world.
Should we take the offer of truce seriously? No, of course not. These are vicious and vile people that think of nothing but the end game -- no matter what it takes.
What about bin Laden's offer to rebuild? He is pandering to Muslim pride. No doubt Muslims would rather rebuild than the humilation of allowing the West to help out.
Interviews by Western leaders indicate that they are still clueless about Islam. They appear to know nothing and believe that Muslims will sell each other out. Big mistake.
Posted by: epg at January 19, 2006 4:37 PM
This is interesting, as we know Muslim only offer a truce when they are losing.They also never honor any agreement as the so-called Palestinians have shown again and again with Isreal. This "truce" offer if it is from Bin Laden is proof that the WOT has been more successful then we have been lead to believe.Since Muslims will kill anyway whether there is a truce or not we gain nothing by listening to any offers from them.Now is the time to increase the pressure on Islam everywhere on earth.
Posted by: Roxane at January 19, 2006 4:54 PM
Now is the time to increase the pressure on Islam everywhere on earth.
Posted by: Roxane at January 19, 2006 04:54 PM
I couldnt agree more, its time to take down Iran.
at January 19, 2006 5:24 PM
Bin Laden has not been heard from since December 2004, and undoubtedly felt that he needed to squash the rumors that he was in paradise. Apparently his tape was of a very poor quality and was only audio. Not very impressive.
If he is offering a truce, he must be feeling the heat. Sounds to me like Big Al had a very close call when he missed his Paki dinner engagement. Too bad his son in law got zapped. They must feel like we are closing in, and the noose is slowly getting tighter. I bet we are. Lets keep up the demolition project on jihad safe houses. Maybe their gracious Paki hosts will tire of being so hospitable.
AS we can expect, there is silence in the greater muslim community. A prominent Saudi scholar on Al Jazera said that OBL was acting "responsibly" by offering this truce. Out of 1.2 billion muslims, I doubt that we will hear a single one condem this latest ploy by Bin Laden.
Posted by: GFB at January 19, 2006 5:24 PM
A prominent Saudi scholar on Al Jazera said that OBL was acting "responsibly" by offering this truce.
That presupposes that the jihad that UBL is waging is valid in the first place.
At any rate, as Robert said, they've got to be hurting to offer a truce. I remember Saddam doing the same thing during the Gulf War; as the F-16s kept pounding away, his government started trying to cut its losses and save face, offering a cease-fire (as UBL just did), then a conditional surrender, and finally an unconditional surrender.
The one unnerving thing about any tape from UBL is what some analyst identified as the "3 Week Rule" following the attacks on the USS Cole, 9/11, and possibly the embassy bombings as well: Bin Laden put out a message and about 3 weeks later, something happened. It also happened with the shoe bomber in 2001. A tape came out on 12/4/01, and just about 3 weeks later, the attack was thankfully thwarted.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 19, 2006 5:56 PM
UBL probably knows that the wimps and the left will all be pressuring Bush to make some kind of truce with him. UBL knows the Dems will be making political attacks on Bush when he doesn't cave in. Just more confusion sown in a country which should know better. Less focus on the war and they will sucker punch us, as always.
Posted by: pismopal at January 19, 2006 7:17 PM
"The United States does not negotiate with terrorists." Bravo, President Bush! Bravo!!!
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at January 19, 2006 7:30 PM
Hooray for Hudna!
I think the above statement is best when preceded by the next sentence by Scott McClellan.
"We do not negotiate with terrorists. We put them out of business."
Posted by: Bujutsu Blogger at January 19, 2006 8:02 PM
Eh, did I say preceded? I mean...followed by...
Posted by: Bujutsu Blogger at January 19, 2006 8:03 PM
The three week rule...hmm when are the Olympics again?
Posted by: Borg at January 19, 2006 8:03 PM
waterdragon52~ aren't you from Canada? How do you know so much about the BNP?
Posted by: Borg at January 19, 2006 8:05 PM
pythagoras posted: There ACTUALLY IS a way to prevent Islamic terror attacks in the west. Huh? This CAN be done by outlawing Islam in all western democracies!!......Immediately thereafter the western democracies should expel all followers of the Islamic human sacrifice cult from all western territories.
This would be a very harsh policy though it will stop the Jihad stone dead, for the simple reason that the Jihad willl not have easy access to the victims. But all the same it will be a very harsh measure and not easy to justify when taken as a means to retribution.
However, I feel great sympathy for the mass of muslim society, who are enslaved by the ideology of islam, and are unable to free themselves from it, for fear of their lives. Banning islam from the West and inhibiting the spread of islam in the West, will have a devastating effect on the Jihad. It will also embolden muslims to question islam and modify it - in effect destroying it, and thus freeing themselves from bondage.
As Churchill observed, "The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."
Your policy can be undertaken if it is done for primarily humanitarian concerns for the enslaved muslim world, i.e., for a noble cause. When done with good intentions and for a good result, even draconian policies are justifiable.
Posted by: DP111 at January 19, 2006 8:20 PM
True, Borg-- as long as they exist, the Olympics will be a tantalizing target. Also, among al Qaeda's enemies, Italy hasn't been hit yet.
But it's been pointed out in the media that UBL drops hints in his communiques about the nature of attacks, as in the videotape of him sporting a Yemeni dagger prior to the attack on the USS Cole. Here, according to CNN, he says attacks "are in the planning stages and you will see them in the heart of your land as soon as the planning is complete." That might suggest the central/midwestern US.
Lacking the full text, I'm not sure if it's a different translation that says "The operations are under preparation and you will see them in your homes the minute they are through ... with God's permission." (After all, Bin Laden does tend to repeat himself in the excerpt I've read.) That would suggest something devised to be witnessed on television, as the 9/11 attacks were while in progress, or, alternatively the reach of an attack that would be witnessed "in your homes" might be a threat of WMDs.
Pretty wild speculation, I know. I'm just doing it for free, unlike the cable news channels. ;)
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 19, 2006 8:42 PM
"We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat."
As I recall, there is a doctrine in the Quran that not only allows for lying, but actually demands it. This was supposedly intended to protect early muslims from persecution, by hiding their faith. (Well, that is until the prophet built up a big enough power base to persecute others.) This has been expanded to follow the "Art of war" rules of lying.
Sadly, the Quranic term for this type of lying escapes me. So if someone could post it, it would make it easier to point out to my Imam wannabe co-worker.
at January 19, 2006 8:55 PM
I wanna know who made him king of the world
at January 19, 2006 8:56 PM
nighthawk I think the term is taqiya, but maybe more learned collegues on JW might want to correct or add to that.
Posted by: km at January 19, 2006 9:04 PM
The truce offer is part of the Muslim ethos...a method of both telegraphing and justifying to the ummah an impending terrorist atrocity. And the man himself wouldn't have made the pronouncement if it were not going to be of major proportions.
Prepare yourselves. Prepare for the horror. Prepare for the week or 10 days of national unity and universal condemnation (if that)...and then prepare for the Left to resume its role as fifth column for the jihadis.
Leggett claimed on a different thread that Saudi dawa is more dangerous than Al Qaeda terror...that only the former could destroy us.
I beg to differ. A WMD event in one local will be debilitating enough...but should there be two or more coordinated events, we could see a chain reaction resulting in national paralysis, the flight of investment capital and an economic collapse.
This is the big time folks.
Posted by: Cornelius at January 19, 2006 9:04 PM
He's weak, I smell blood. OBL also recomended that Americans read The Rogue State by William Blum. A leftists anti-American treatise. People like him aren't much better than the terrorists themselves.
Posted by: JadeDragoness at January 19, 2006 9:11 PM
Time to follow Iceland's example and make all countries oil-free. Independent.
I just don't know how to be independent of those who are living among us waiting to overthrow our countries. At the right hand of the leaders. Living and working within view of the capitols.
I think Hugh is right.
Posted by: Borg at January 19, 2006 9:18 PM
waterdragon52~ aren't you from Canada? How do you know so much about the BNP?
Posted by: Borg [TypeKey Profile Page] at January 19, 2006 08:05 PM
I read a lot of UK blogsites... ...Melanie Phillips, Normblog, Harry's Place, Drink-soaked Trots... ...and I also pay attention to what some of our own UK bloggers like GrannyW, Interested and others whose names fail me at the moment have said in the past.
Besides, organizations similar to the BNP exist all over the place. I'm no expert on the late Meir Kahane's Kach movement, but would tend to place it as the Israeli equivalent of LePen's National Front or the UK's BNP. Canada and the US also have fringe organizations that are similarly racist and/or xenophobic, but I don't think there are any that actually field candidates who get more than 50 votes from the local voters and fade away when they are exposed by the media for what they are. The US has its David Dukes and Canada has had its racist fascist organizations like the Heritage Front, but when these movements try to infest more legitimate, less extremist political parties (as the HF tried to do with the remnant of Social Credit) they tend to get ejected for their extremist views and/or herald the end of the party they have infiltrzted.
Posted by: waterdragon52 at January 19, 2006 9:18 PM
The CIA (or whoever does that sort of thing) can't track the trail between OBL and al-Jazeera after all these years?
Posted by: kevin at January 19, 2006 9:32 PM
Im sure bin laden's word is just as good as
The false prophet mohammeds..
So based on mohammeds
Lying
Cheating
Stealing
Raping
Butchering
Be-heading
Child Molesting
Contract breaking
Demonic filled koran..
I am sure i can trust him just about as much as i trust SATAN himself..
Someone grab a pork chop shove it down this pigs throat with a greanade attached..
at January 19, 2006 9:40 PM
religion_of_peas
and
km -
Could I respectfully remind you both that the media in the UK operate under a very strict set of laws about what they can and cannot do when reporting any trial. As I posted on another thread some days ago, it is often better in the UK to wait until the trial is over and then read the full, public, transcript. One then has the whole story from all angles raised at the trial.
km, religion_of_peas is correct about the BNP. No thinking person would touch them with a 10ft. barge-pole. They are neo-Nazi not neo-Con, and a particularly horrible example of the genre at that. I can see your reasoning - my enemy's enemy is my friend - but in the case of the BNP I think you would find that you clasped a viper to your bosom. As Virgil said: Non tali auxilio nec defensoribus istis Tempus eget. (Now is not the hour that requires such help, nor those defenders.)
Posted by: Certiorari at January 19, 2006 10:51 PM
Borg-- watched a report on the same subject in Iceland with great interest on ABC News the other night. I thought that kind of water/hydrogen technology discussed in the latter half of the report was still a "distant future" kind of thing, but there it is, powering buses in Rekjavik.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1518556
So... why aren't we all doing the same right now?
Something to write one's congressman about.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 19, 2006 11:14 PM
Shinoliite~
I have wondered about corn also. I saw an article about corn kernel burning stoves for heat. Seems impractical for most people. However, I wonder about the possibility of using corn oil or vegetable oil? The cost seems high at first but farm subsidies account for at least part of that cost. Entirely renewable. Combine that with a hybrid type engine using batteries(combined with solar panel cells?) or maybe hydrogen and it could be a practical solution. Take the high taxes down some and the cost could be reasonable to convert to and improve on. Compared to the threat of recent costs and the relief of independence the cost would be a fair trade. It would not take long for countries all over the world to grow their own energy. And countries in the winter could trade with countries experiencing summer or just stock up.
I am not an engineer so I could be way off but I it sould be looked into.
I believe Henry Ford had more than one option for fuel when he made his engine but he chose the fossil fuel for the cheaper cost. I think it was an alcohol based fuel. I could be wrong about that. But when you think about alcohol do you think, hmm, corn liquor? Stiles? Ever set fire to a potato chip? I think they burn. Burning Doritos is a science class experiment.
I hope Iceland goes quicker than mid-century. I have often heard stories pooh-poohing hydrogen as impractical but I think an open mind is needed. Go Iceland!
Posted by: Borg at January 19, 2006 11:48 PM
"So... why aren't we all doing the same right now?"
Because one needs to make the electricity to make the hydrogen with. Where are our nuclear reactors? Ask our politicians. Why are we still burning organic muck in grossly inefficient elderly power stations? Ask our politicians. Why are we at risk of not having enough power every winter? Ask our politicians. Most importantly of all: why are we still reliant on middle eastern oil when we all knew thirty years ago how things were going to turn out? Ask our politicians.
And when you have asked them and singularly failed to get sensible answers try reminding them gently about treason laws (and revolution if your feeling really nasty). They don't like that one little bit. On this issue there is hardly a president or a prime minister from the last thirty years in the western world that shouldn't be tried for treason. Any first year law student could get the conviction, too.
Posted by: Certiorari at January 19, 2006 11:52 PM
The CIA (or whoever does that sort of thing) can't track the trail between OBL and al-Jazeera after all these years?
-from above
Al-Jazeera would need to give up it's source and you know it would never do that. And even if it did OBL probably has the tape passed through many hands before it gets to Jazeera. This tape definetly shows him spooked though.
at January 19, 2006 11:55 PM
Uh, potato chips are cooked in vegetable or corn oil. That's why I mentioned them.
Posted by: Borg at January 19, 2006 11:55 PM
Borg -
Scientists who have looked at biofuels, as they're called, freely admit that they have a part to play and they are busy doing research right now. (Read "New Scientist" and "Scientific American"). The big, big problem is that we cannot grow all the fuel we need - believe it or not, there just isn't enough land. Even if we cut the population by 90% and fuel demand by 90% there still wouldn't be enough land. Growing fuel is not a very efficient way of acquiring it - look at the length of time it takes for nature to make an oilfield from organic debris.
Posted by: Certiorari at January 19, 2006 11:59 PM
But then there's biodiesel. Willie Nelson's running his tour bus on it:
We'd still be "burning organic muck," but we wouldn't be filling the coffers of jihad with the profits.
Between that, ethanol, coal-to-fuel methods, hybrid technology, and Icelandic hydrogen technology, all it would take was a government with enough testicular fortitude to set stringent deadlines for minimizing our use of oil over, say, 20 years.
It's silly to stall for lack of one universal, standardized source of energy to replace oil; make the choices available and let the market forces sort it out.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 12:08 AM
Hi Certiorari,
Thanks for the the insight into UK law and its operation regarding coverage of legal cases.
Thankfully I dont personally have to grab the viper, I am relatively happy with how our politicians here are dishing out the punishment to the Jihadists. But it looks like to me that a lot of people in the UK might be taking that step.
I must admit though to looking forward to what comes out in the court case regarding the RoP and how this is reported. Put it this way I certainly dont expect Al beeb to be providing in depth coverage.
I have lost all faith in Al beeb which is a pity because I have such fond memories of growing up with Auntie as a child. I can certainly understand Religion_of_peas not paying his TV licence more people need to do like him. Nothing talks like money, especially the withholding of it.
Posted by: km at January 20, 2006 12:16 AM
Shinoliite -
Quite right, but will we ever see a government with such fortitude?
Here I must leave the debate, I'm afraid. I need a couple of hours sleep before I see my first client (remember, we're five hours ahead of you).
Posted by: Certiorari at January 20, 2006 12:17 AM
I understand-- sleep well.
My most productive hours are the late ones... too bad "the man" keeps making me get up early.
Posted by: Shinoliite at January 20, 2006 12:21 AM
km -
Dear old Aunty Beeb is running scared, no doubt about that. But what is she scared of - NOT the jihadists, certainly. She's running scared of the politicians, and with some justification, too. Remember, the BBC exists by virtue of politicians renewing its Charter. They keep on renewing for a year or two and saying that unless Aunty behaves herself they won't renew it next time. Not, I am sure you will agree, the way to have good, sound public broadcasting.
It would also be nice if all of the licence fee went to the BBC. A significant proportion of it just goes to the treasury - probably illegally, but no one has managed to get that into court yet. Remember, the licence fee is also controlled by the politicians, not Aunty.
Sorry, but I have to get SOME sleep. Chat to later.
Posted by: Certiorari at January 20, 2006 12:28 AM
I say accept the offer of a truce. Why not. Invite Mullah Omar, Bin Laden and that Egyptian teddy bear all together to a dinner in the US embassy. Talk to them about the problems of being a Muslim in the Muslim world. Then stick 'em in a prison. Try some water boarding . . . must find out about those active cells . . . and photograph it all. Then leak it, on purpose. Kind of like how the Israelis 'accidently' let that nut spill the beans on their nuclear weapon program. Do the same thing here. Castigate how it's just horrible and makes us all so sad to have those pictures of some red state marine shaving off Bin Laden's beard. That look of terror in Mullah Omar's one eye as he checks out that slathering german sheperd, held at bay by a smiling marine. Wait, how bout dressing the trio up as rabbis? Look, I'm sorry. I've got a twisted sense of humor. IMHO, Limbaugh had it right when he laughed about journalists intervewing Bin Laden and company saying the only question Rush would ask would be, "Osama, what are your coordinates?" Truce, Schmuce. Hudna, Shmudna.
Posted by: biorabbi at January 20, 2006 12:29 AM
Certiorari
I was wondering if you ever sleep, you seem to post 24Hrs a day.
Pleasant dreams.
Posted by: km at January 20, 2006 2:01 AM
I agree with biorabbi, but with a twist. Agree to a truce. Then use that time to do the following things:
Then watch CAIR, AADL, and all the Western Islamist organizations have a collective hernia.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 20, 2006 2:21 AM
"We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat."
How do we know that itself is not a lie? What do you think?
Posted by: Alert at January 20, 2006 3:21 AM
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
WELL HOW CAN YOU TRUST PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS??
Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”
KIND OF WHAT HE USED WHILE LOOSING IN TORA BORA??
THE YELLOW COWARD WHO RAN AWAY??
Qur’an 66:1 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”
NOW WHAT WAS THAT HE SAID ABOUT NOT TELLING THE TRUTH??
Qur’an 4:142 “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”
FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON YOU FOOL ME TWICE SHAME ON ME
Qur’an 33:11 “In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion; they have promised only to deceive us.”
YEP ubl[hipacrat who runs away and hangs out with women yellow coward] BEEN SEEING A LOT OF EATHQUAKES IN MULSUM COUNTRIES AND THEY FOLLOWED THIS MONSTER WHO IS IN IRAN WHO SENDS MONSTERS TO KILL THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Qur’an 33:14 “Say: Flight will not avail you if you flee from death, killing, or slaughter. In that case you will not be allowed to enjoy yourselves but a little while. Say, ‘Who will screen you, saving you from Allah if he intends to harm and injure you?’”
MORE ISLAMIC TERRORIST DEAD TODAY
Ishaq:519 “Hajjaj said to the Apostle, ‘I have money scattered among the Meccan merchants, so give me permission to go and get it.’ Having got Muhammad’s permission, he said, ‘I must tell lies.’ The Apostle said, ‘Tell them.’”
NOW THAT DON'T MAKE HIS CASE??
Qur’an 8:58 “If you apprehend treachery from a people with whom you have a treaty, retaliate by breaking off relations with them.”
SO THE YELLOW COWARD CAN SAY WHATEVER HE WANTS AND NOT MAKING THE CASE FOR TRUTH??
Ishaq:548 “By Allah, the black mass has spread. Abu Bakr said, ‘There is not much honesty among people nowadays.’”
YES THE BIRD FLUE IS SPREADING AMOUNG THE MULSUMS IN IRAN AND AROUND THE WORLD
Tabari VI:110 “When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad has repented of [reneged on] what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah. He has altered [the bargain] and brought something else.’ Those two phrases which Satan had cast on Muhammad’s tongue of were in the mouth of every polytheist. The Messenger said, ‘I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.’”
SO THIER MO-HAM-OD LIED NOT GOOD FOR THE YELLOW COWARDS CASE??
Qur’an 8:49 “When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ‘The religion has deceived and misled them.’”
COULD THIS BE IRAN AND THE YELLOW COWARD WHO THEY HARBOR??
Ishaq:323 “I am the best of plotters. I deceived them with My guile so that I delivered you from them.”
YES POPIES ARE NOT TULIPS AND YOU YELLOW COWARD ARE A LIAR!!
Ishaq:365/Tabari VII:94 “Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”
HAD TO SAVE THE BEST FOR LAST LIAR!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIEVED BY THEM AMEN
at January 20, 2006 3:37 AM
The very notion that I would ever trust a Muslim to any great extent is something I personally find laughable. I'm a student of history.
Truth is truth.
Posted by: Foehammer at January 20, 2006 7:21 AM
"We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat."
-- from Bin Laden's message above
What then are we to make of Muhammad's injunction: "War is deception." How does one conduct, as a good Muslim, a good Jihad (war to spread Islam, including the removal of obstacles to the spread of Islam), where "deception" is of its very essence, without lying and cheating?
Not possible. Is Bin Laden setting himself up as superior to Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil? Is he?
That is a charge that should be made. Muhammad proscribes what Allah tells him to proscribe. And Allah -- not Bin Laden -- knows best.
Posted by: Hugh at January 20, 2006 9:27 AM
re Singh, I have just read several pages of postings on that link and I'm afraid the vast majority of them make an eye-watering read. If this is a true reflection of how the infidel world falls for the Bin Laden rhetoric, then I'm afraid there is no future for our civilization, unless someone or something suddenly imparts them with the wisdom of a John Quincy Adams - not very likely with the screen of ignorance put up by the PC-inebriated MSM, and LLLs who seem to grow on trees, and anyone who tried to impart them with wisdom as regards Islam would get branded as a racist, a fascist, a bigot (or all three). Most of these posters either seem to think its possible to negotiate with Bin Laden or that Bush and Blair are criminals. One nutjob even implied that Bush has been responsible for 178,000 deaths. Very little knowledge of the Koran, Sira or hadith, or the history of Islam itself seems to be on display there.
Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at January 22, 2006 11:21 AM
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