That is just typical. All possiblities of moderate Muslims must be negated, otherwise it can leave a serious dent in our worldview. Why should we believe that a man who has spent his entire trying to reconcile between the three major religions would say such a cruel thing about Muslims; his own people? Thats sounds very phony to me. It is exactly the same phony and mean rumor that Zionists spread on Rachel Corrie, the courageous American who was smashed and killed by an Israeli
bulldozer, namely that she had Terrorist affiliations. It cant possibly be true that she was helping Palestinians ouf of poor Humane reasons. And what on earth is so bad about what he said on Israel? He didnt condone suicide bombings, he gave his own realistic assesments on Israel being an artificial element in the Middle East. Demography could ceartainly play a part. Keeping a Jewish majority is in the long run impossible, it only worked with expulsion and ethnic cleansing. That is something we can negate in the future, especially for Israeli Arabs. I wonder how many Jewish Leaders have far worse Ideas on how to deal with Palestinians,how many Americans support bombings in Iraq and maybe Iran, how many in fact support it on this website? We can conclude therefore that it is hard to find American or Christian moderats.

Karim Khayal

Posted by: karim83 at February 1, 2006 5:57 AM

karim, like his object of admiration, badawi, likes to forget that the Quran clearly says [Sura 5:12, 20-22] that the Holy Land belongs to the Jews. The Yusuf Ali commentary confirms this understanding of those verses. Moreover, other Quranic verses foresee a Jewish return to their land. The link below supplies more references to the pro-Zionist position taken by the Quran itself in a number of verses. Is karim loyal to the Quran or not? What about badawi? Was he loyal to the Quran? If he is loyal to the Quran, then he should support Israel and the Jews' rights to their Land.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/05/quran-agrees-with-zionism.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 1, 2006 6:49 AM

You misunderstand.In the Kuranic narrative there is no chosen peoplen ,nor Gods people. The children of Israel were a people whom God had blessed by giving them monotheism, by giving them prophets, leading them out of Egypt and into Canaan. The inherit right to Palestine doesnt exist, except for the convent between God and his follwoers. That is they are to follow Gods commandments like all other people.Dont kill, dont steal and dont lie. Well as we all know the children of Israel rebelled and broke Gods law.
If you claim that Jews have an inherent or genetic right to Palestine, then it can be argued that the Palestinians, most whom, the Christian and the Muslims, are descendants of the ancient Jews, are more closely related to ancient Israelites then are many Askenazi Jews today. Second, a taking of Israel must mean breaking all of Gods commandmends. Stealing, lying, murdering because there was already a people there. God wouldnt want that.

Karim Khayal

Posted by: karim83 at February 1, 2006 6:57 AM

He was always moderate. Moderately sinister-looking. Moderately deceitful "...Islam means peace.." as he would say right up to his passing. Leaders of other religions dealt with him out of tolerance - but look closely at their body language when they shared a podium; he was cold-shouldered, not respected.

As to Karim: Whatever Ms. Cories' affiliations, she threw herself under a bulldozer; she was an idiot, not a hero. She put her family and that poor 'dozer driver through hell, all in the name of supporting the families of terrorists, colonialist Arabs stealing land Allah gave to the Jews.

According to Allah, Palestine is an "artificial element" in Israel. Keeping a jewish majority is not going to happen because, unlike certain Mohummadan states, Israel is a free society and Mohummadans breed uncontrolably. The only "ethnic cleansing" going on in Israel is of Jews, by their own govt. and by the Koranically-mandated death warrant that forms the basis of Hamas' charter. And Hezbollah. And Islamic Jihad, Al-aqsa Brigade etc.

How to deal with "Palestinians"? How about a giant windscreen wiper at Beersheba? How about treating them the same way Allah says they should treat their Israeli hosts? The difference between Islamic and Christian moderates is that the latter are dhimmis. Right now a little Christian zeal would be a welcome arrival.

The "Palestinian" Mohummadans are descendents of recently arrived Arab zionists, who have converged on Israel to leech off the hard work of Jews, just as they always have. And if you examine the Abrahamic covenant, it is clear that this was an agreement to stop human sacrifice. But Allah commands you to sacrifice Infidels. Allah is a syncretism of Marduk, Moloch, Sin, Baal. You are worshiping the fallen one, and he wants you to kill, kill, kill. Jews and Christians are the inheritors of the Covenant, not the death-cult of Mohummadanism.

Posted by: Animus Fox at February 1, 2006 7:14 AM

Eliyahu:

Many are beguiled these days by such passages. Unfortunately, the Qur'an makes clear elsewhere that the Jews broke Allah's commandments and thereby incurred his curse. See 2:62-65, 5:59-60, 7:166, and 9:30. Sura 58 makes clear they are guided by Satan.

So...the Muslims, being the true followers of the religion of Abraham and Moses, are the true heirs of Allah's promises to the Jews.

These verses are accordingly used by Muslims in the Middle East to justify the destruction of Israel, not to inculcate support for it.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at February 1, 2006 7:33 AM

As much as we hope that Islam can be made moderate, the rhetoric always returns to the Koranic passages that mandate the expansion of Islam at the expense of non-Muslims. This fact has been true from the moment Mohammed first entered that cave, received his visions and began his so-called "call to Islam."

Throughout history, millions have suffered and died and suffered and lived. Some of our contemporaries are experiencing the suffering and dying phase. Are they more fortunate than those that still exist and are suffering and living? And this "religion of peace" is cunningly using the weapon of stealth to achieve the same goal in today's West where, because of "moderate scholars," such as Badawi, hapless and bewildered inhabitants have suddently found themselves toeing the the first line as Islam begins to enfold them, slowly, as would a spider, surrounding them with silken cords, only to suck out their essense.

Posted by: epg at February 1, 2006 7:52 AM

Karim:

There is no question as to the ISM/PSM's terrorist connections. They pose as being "nonviolent" but do everything they can to provide cover for weapons smuggling and worse to aid and abet terrorist activities. And they continue to misrepresent Corrie's accidental death as deliberate although their own eyewitness, photographer Joseph Smith, on his own website account, however unintentionally indicates that it was an accident.

You also display an enormous ignorance as to the manner in which Ashkenazic Jews came to settle in what is now called the State of Israel. They bought up desolate, vacant land and reclaimed it from a state of advanced desertification. And in so doing, they created an economic boom that brought untold numbers of "Arab" and Muslim immigrants from some distance to participate in this revitalized economy. Well in advance of the arrival of European Jews, certain urban areas, including Jerusalem and Safed, were principally populated by Jews, who never completely abandoned the region or gradually migrated back from various parts of the Levant. And after the founding of the State, half of the population comprised Jews not from Europe, but from Muslim countries -- Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, etc., who certainly were incouraged by the Israeli government to do so, but would not have been disposed towards leaving but for the brutal treatment they had endured for centuries in countries they had lived for hundreds if not in some cases thousands of years. You also show an ignorance of the Muslim countries that denuded themselves of any residual population by way of religious fiat and remain so today, long before any rumblings of Ashkenazim arriving in "Palestine".

Posted by: waterdragon52 at February 1, 2006 8:13 AM

"no interest in Darfur because those sub-Saharan Muslims were not really Muslims but polytheists."

To use an old expression, that's not a very Christian attitude. ;-)

Posted by: pst314 at February 1, 2006 8:43 AM

"Why should we believe that a man who has spent his entire trying to reconcile between the three major religions would say such a cruel thing about Muslims; his own people? Thats sounds very phony to me..."
-- from a posting by "karim" above

The words of Zaki Badawi were published in a book in 1993 by Mervyn Hiskett, a great expert on Islam in Africa. Zaki Badawi lived until 2006. If he had been misquoted about his hope that Great Britain would fall under Muslim rule and hence under the Shari'a, he had 11 years in which to avail himsewlf of the libel laws of Great Britain, laws most favorable to the plaintiff. Why didn't he? Because he was not misquoted. Zaki Badawi despised the black Africans of Darfur, and was indifferent to them , reflecting two things: the Arab supremacist ideology for which Islam is a vehicle, so that all Muslims are required to bow in the direction of Arabia, to take a 7th century Arab as their Model for everything for all time, if possible to assume Arab names and pseudo-Arab identities and even fake Arab lineages (one-third of Pakistan believes it is descended from Muhammad, hence all those "Sayeeds") and to ignore, or even despite, their own pre-Islamic pasts (how many Egyptian Muslims, many of them merely the descendants of Copts who were forced to convert under onerous conditions, take a great interest in Coptic culture and civilization, the only part of modern Egypt that directly links to the Egyptian past? How many people in North Africa, in Algeria and Morocco and Tunisia and Libya, take an interest in the pre-Islamic Berber civilization, or in the Christian civilization that produced Tertullian and St. Augustine and other leading figures of the Church? How many Muslims in Syria and Iraq are fascinated by, make the object of study in their schools, pre-Islamic Syria, or the Christians and Jews who once peopled Mesopotamia? ; the related belief that Arabs are not only the "best of people" because it was through them that Islam was delivered, but because -- well, because they are the Arabs, and they do Islam right.

The second expression of his indifference to the mass-murder, aided by the Muslim Arabs who run the Sudan, even of the black Africans of Darfur (let's not even mention Badawi's views on the genocide of the Christian and animist blacks in the southern Sudan -- that we all know), is that not only are is Islam best for Great Britain, but within Islam, it is the "best of peoples" the Arabs who will determine who is, and is not, a good Muslim. If the Muslim Arabs desire the land, and what is possibly under the land, in Darfur, they will not hesitate to kill the black Africans there, and call those black Africans "inferior" Muslims (as anyone who has lived in Egypt or other Arab countries knows, the most racist remarks about black Africans are routine; the things said, even in the presence of Western students, would make Hendrik Verwoerd blush).

That is Zaki Badawi, the man whom "Karim" above tells us "spent his entire [sic] trying to reconcile between the three major religions." Rot. He tried, for his entire life, to promote Islam, to push it insidiously, to convince the unwary with all that plausible talk about the "three great monotheisms" or "three abrahamic faiths" that "share so much" without any hint that there is only one true faith,Islam, and "Islam is to dominate and not to be dominated." That was his creed; between the Believer and the Infidel, there could only be hostility, until such time as the "peace" came that would result when Islam covered the globe, and Muslims ruled everywhere. That was his animating vision. That was his heart's desire.

Posted by: Hugh at February 1, 2006 9:15 AM

I remind karim that the word or name "palestine" does not appear in the Quran, nor does it appear in the New Testament where the Land of Israel is called "Land of Israel" twice [both in Matthew chap 2]. In the Quran the country is called "Holy Land" or "blessed Land" or "safe abode" or "Jews' land" or "their land" [of the Jews].

Now as to the genetic heritage of the Ashkenazim. The Jews came to Europe as migrants from Israel [called Judea by the Romans; the Province of Judea included Samaria, the Galilee, the Golan, the Coastal Plain, etc.] and the Diaspora in the Middle East. No doubt some converts to Judaism were made during the Roman Empire; however, when Christianity became the official religion of the Empire, conversion to Judaism was forbidden in both the Western and Eastern parts of the Empire [see Prof. Amnon Linder's compilation of early Christian laws regarding Jews and Judaism, "Jews in the Legal Sources of the Early Middle Ages"]. Likewise, in the Islamic domain, Muslims were forbidden to convert to Judaism [although Christians were not so forbidden]. Obviously, these laws tended to preserve the original genetic character of the Jews, which has been confirmed in recent years by DNA studies, showing a Jewish proximity to Lebanese, to some of the Arabs, and to a lesser extent to Italians and Greeks. Of course, we would not claim to be a pure race. No doubt there were renegades among the Jews who were subject dhimmis in the Islamic state, just as among other conquered peoples. But there were also major migrations of Arab and Turkoman tribes into the country over the centuries, and in the 19th century, there were Egyptian, Circassian, and Bosnian Muslims migrating in groups into Israel. This is just a partial account of Muslim migration into the country. Concerning the Arabs, what's wrong with them is not in their genes but inside their heads.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 1, 2006 10:17 AM

some palestinian Arabs today have names like Masri, Masrawi, Kurdi, Turki, Halabi, etc., indicating a family's geographic origin outside of Israel.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 1, 2006 10:19 AM

The Koran says this, or that...It is all a matter of interpretation. Hell we cant even figure out if the president of Iran said nuclear energy or technology or weapons. I guess muslims all have their idea what was being said in some passage, due to the complexity of archaic 7th century language in the koran. That is how the Taliban and Iman's have power. They teach the average guy, who probably has little command over the language in the text, what the koran says and what it means. And within a few years... Presto...you get a bunch of volunteers to be martyrs so they can go to paradise and have hot and cold running virgins.
As far as arab genocide in the Sudan and a pecking order amongst muslim culture. Remember, during the ages including the 1700's and 1800's the slave trade in Africa was controlled by Arabs. It is clear to me that, if there was demand for slaves still, slaves (probably black Sudanese) would be available in some Arab port

Posted by: GrimReaperxxx at February 1, 2006 11:37 AM

Muslim arenot afraid to die for they religion against people and nations that attack Islam like America and Israel. That Israel support who dislike what he said anout Israel not lasting is true.Israel
is in retreat as it cannot hold on to the land. America is going down the tude mortal,ecomoncy,and military like the Rome Empire did. America willnot change his depence on oil. Hydrogen power car will be expansive. Storage hydrogen gas in metalhyrate in
the fuel tank will mean replacement of the entire fuel tank with new metalhyrate every 3 month cost 5000 dollar for each new tank full,

Fuel Cell power from Ford and GM and any car maker will cost when mass prosduce between 3 and 5 million
dollar for acar. Alchol is the only practive fuel for car right now but you cannot goes 120+ miles per hour with than alchol power car. Plus the federal and state government will not give up the tax for alchol liquid 75% of the cost of liquid like Wiskery
is taxes money that goes for the fed and state.

Posted by: DefenderofIslam at February 1, 2006 1:40 PM

Slaves, enslaved black Africans, exist today. Slavery is practiced openly in Mali and Mauritania and the Sudan, where the masters are Arab Muslims. Slavery is recognized in the Qur'an, which means it can never be considered wrong. Muhammad had slaves. The Saudis officially, under Western pressure, ended slavery in 1962. One old princess was furious and refused to manumit her slaves. Is there slavery there today? There are many signs that it is so, away from inquisitive foreigners. There have been ads, in Saudi newspapers, offering to swap a young girl (Indian or South Asian) for a late-model American automobile. There are reports that slavery still exists, not only in the interior, but effectively behind the high walls of those endless little palaces that the rich, the princes and princelings and princelettes all possess. Perhaps "The Religions Policeman" blogger, or others who have lived in Saudi Arabia, can tell us more. Filipino nurses I have talked to, and others from Asia who have worked as domestics for assorted Arabs, have assured me that there was no difference for many of them between their work, and outright slavery.

Find out about those conditions and ask yourself if it amounted to slavery, or was something else.

Posted by: Hugh at February 1, 2006 1:43 PM

"Defender of Islam" one hopes will tarry here a while, and continue to offer his sincere thoughts so sincerely expressed.

Posted by: Hugh at February 1, 2006 1:45 PM

In December 2004, there was an interfaith meeting at Clarence House about the treatment of apostates from Islam. Prince Charles attended it.

The Daily Telegraph said:
"It is understood that the Muslim group, which included the Islamic scholar Zaki Badawi, cautioned the prince and other non-Muslims against speaking publicly on the issue".

Posted by: Elephant at February 1, 2006 2:12 PM

hot and cold running virgins.

But surely it is haram for women to run?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at February 1, 2006 2:19 PM

Robert,
I appreciate what you wrote in response to my citing the Quran. I could add that a Muslim scholar was quoted in the Jerusalem Post some ten years ago as admitting the existence of the verses that I cited but pointing out that the Return of the Jews to their Land is supposed to occur, according to the Quran, at the End of Days or at Judgement Day. Nevertheless, it's important to make this argument for several reasons. One is to foreclose the Arabs from making "cultural relativist" arguments, pretending not to know of any Jewish connection to the Land ever, or any divine promise of the Land, ever. Walid Khalidi did this once in an interview broadcast on the Ted Koppel in 1988.
Now, I'm sure the Arabs can find many Islamic arguments to show that the promise of the Land in 5:20-22 has been vitiated. But what's important is to demonstrate that they are aware of it, through the Quran. Because non-Muslims --Jews in particular-- are not bound to honor the qualifications and conditions that the Quran or Hadith or sunna or whatever put on the Jewish title to the Land [After all, everybody and every people has done something wrong, even the Arabs, although the State Department might not realize that]. And the Muslims ought to be put on the defensive by explaining why they reject 5:20-22.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 1, 2006 3:45 PM

Supposedly I display an ignorance toward the population of Palestine. I tell you in return, stop copy pasting a ridiculous Zionist claim that has been discretided over and over again. Palestine, like Syria, Lebanon and Iraq was never empty. Between 1896 and 1948, the population more then tripled.That was because of the new hygienic standards that the British introduced to Palestine. At the eve of the creation of Israel the population was 1,2 million. 750 000 were thrown out of the land were they had lived for thousandths of years. The claim that they are mere Arabs is ridiculous. We claim the same about the Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqis and on. There is a difference between being from Arabian Peninsula
and the historic "Arabization" that was a result of the Islamic conquest and had no effect what so ever on the ethnicity of pre-Islamic population.
What you are quoting is a long discredited and dastardly book called "From Time Immemorial", which even Israelis called " the equivalent of dried out cow dung". It was torn appart and disregarded by every serious scholar. You can even look it up Wikepidia. There was a population in Palestine, and the elderly members of the ethnically cleansed still have house key, hoping one day to return. Every disscussion beneath is pointless and only die hard Zionist myth. And remember what the Boers claimed about
the Zulu in South Africa, the eerily familiar claim was that the Zulu arrived when they set shore in South Africa.They therefore had the same or more claim to the country,

Karim Khayal

Posted by: karim83 at February 1, 2006 3:55 PM

"Even if that (Islam) comes to the West peacefully, I will resist it."
That should be made an affirmation.

Let's cut the ** - we are going to have to go after this thing.

How do you say Moon God in Arabic? God of the Quraish! Chief Deity of the Kaaba religion! And where’s those Three Desert Goddesses – which Mohammed tried to put asunder. It is their intercession which I seek!

Desert Clothing
Desert Goddesses
Desert God
Desert Laws
Desert Religion
Desert Book

Then let’s bring it to rest in ‘Peace’ in the Desert.

Posted by: Pass It On at February 1, 2006 4:37 PM

You violent masochistic trashheap, you want to bring
it to an end? How? By sitting on your computer and munching potatoe chips? The more violence you commit against Muslims, the more dangerous it is going to be for you to go accross the street and buy constepation medicine from your local Pharmacy, because your war cry is nothing but you shiting in your pants from Osamas newest threat.

Posted by: karim83 at February 1, 2006 5:00 PM

Hey Fox

The driver didnt seem to be going to hell when he drove backwards to smash her again. Neither do her parents, nor friends seem to agree with your atrocious remark that that she threw herself infront of the bulldozer. Neither does the Israeli goverment,
but they just dont seem to care so much about a Jew
commiting a crime against a nonjew.Yep, its the only Democracy in the Middle East.And that is a pretty low attitude you take toward your fellow citizen. But I dont expect more from the likes of you.Brains just cant be bought at the next grocery shop.

Posted by: karim83 at February 1, 2006 5:09 PM

Hey! DefenderofIslam (above) seems to be very interested in the oil sales.

George Bush has effectively threatened to dry up the Jihad funds.

Looks like the Arabs will have to get a real job.

They may even find that their women have a little more than half a brain.

Posted by: Pass It On at February 1, 2006 6:07 PM

karim,
your outburst of hate just gives me a warm and cozy feeling. Apparently you did not read Joan Peters' book, From Time Immemorial. My argument is NOT the same as her argument and I did not get mine from her.
You, my hate-ridden enemy, should go and quarrel with the main spokesman for the Palestinian Arabs before the Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry on Palestine in 1946. His name was Jamal Husseini and he was a kinsman of Haj Amin el-Husseini, the Arab Nazi collaborator and British-appointed mufti of Jerusalem. Jamal Husseini told the Commission that the Arabs in the country were mainly descended from the Arab conquerors of the country in the seventh [7th] century. So your quarrel is with Jamal Husseini, not with me. As far as Arab settlement --or colonization-- of Israel is concerned, Arab tribes such as Judham and Jarrah settled in Israel before the Crusades and confiscated lands from natives for the purposes of their own settlement. Check out these tribes by name in the Encyclopedia of Islam and Moshe Gil's book on the history of that period. Bat Yeor discusses the phenomenon of Arab tribal settlement /colonization in her books, Dhimmi and Decline...
It seems that you Arabs change arguments according to what's convenient at various times. In 1946, Jamal Husseini had the Palestinian Arabs in his time as mainly descended from Arab settlers of the pre-Crusades period, especially the 7th century. Today, you claim that the Arabs were there for thousands of years. Another funny thing is that other Arab spokesmen testified before the Commission in 1946 that there was no such place as "Palestine" in history. There was only "Syria." Now, of course, the tune has changed with the requirements of expediency.
Anyhow, before charging me with echoing Joan Peters, read the relevant chapter of her book and compare it with my earlier post. You could also go onto my blog and see my blog entries about how the ancient Arabs collaborated with the Roman empire to besiege Jerusalem, and eventually to destroy the Temple. [Tacitus, Histories, 5:1]. Pleasant reading!!

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 1, 2006 6:38 PM

Hey karim83

I wonder if Bin Laden ‘The Great” has nightmares? You know things that scare him out of his sleep.

George Bush
A Big Mecca Attack
Not being accepted into paradise
Biodiesel

Tucked away on that cold mountainside – I guess we will never know!

Posted by: Pass It On at February 1, 2006 6:39 PM

If the Arabs/Muslims had to explain why they reject Quran 5:20-22 and the verses foretelling the Jews' return to their Land, then they might have to explain that they view Israel as fay, as waqf land, which is how they view Spain, Greece, Sicily, East Punjab and West Bengal, and so on. They should be made to explain themselves.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 2, 2006 6:39 AM

The more violence you commit against Muslims, the more dangerous it is going to be for you to go accross the street and buy constepation medicine from your local Pharmacy, because your war cry is nothing but you shiting in your pants from Osamas newest threat.

Sorry to sound anally retentive, although this thread is about Badawi's "passing", but surely if "shiting in your pants" is the problem, "constepation medicine" is not much of a remedy?

Posted by: Interested at February 2, 2006 10:18 AM

I am not hate filled, its just that your readiness for violence and mayhem shakes me to the core. You give many imaginary attributes to Arabs like supremacy, racism, violence, ignorance and never look in the mirror. All that you make the Arabs to be, you are in fact. Its the case of classical Anti-Semitism.Now back to your arguement, you mention a supposed quote by Jamal Husseini as "proof" that Palestinians descended from the Arab conquerors. Palestine, Syria and Lebanon were conquered at the Battle of Yarmuk 636, and the Muslim conquest of Mesopotamia and Egypt followed soon, parts of an astoundinly "successful" and quick line of conquest. Why should we suppose from all countries that the Muslims conquered that it was only Palestine that was empty? It it because that is convenient for Zionist to believe, the same way that Euro American described the American Continent as empty. Palestine was in fact not empty. The majority of its inhabitants were monophysic Christians. As a matter of curiosity why should the oldest settled region in the world, from about 10000 b.c and an important, not to mention fertile, and fought over bridgeway from Asia to Africa be empty? You pretend that only at the Arab conquest that immigration from the Arabian Peninsula into Palestine, Syria and
Lebanon took place. As a matter of fact there was constant wandering of nomadic Semites from South Arabia into the North, which very likely also describes the ancient Israelites. As a matter of fact during Mohammads time as a merchant the South of Syria was pretty much an Arabic speaking province.Do we claim now that Syrians descended from Arabs? And lets not forget the dealing of King Solomon with the Queen of Sheeba. Lets look what the important Islamic Scholar Heinz Halm from Germany has to say to this," The inner Islamization of the Calpihate is only partially explained by the immigration of Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula into the sorrounding regions.
The main reason was the communal pull of the runling religion...". Heinz Halm,Der Islam, p.31.
The quote of Jamal Husseini does not any imply what Scholar today mention in History, regarding the Arabization of pre Islamic popultaion.
In all your selectiveness your forgett to mention that genetic results of Askenazi populations reveal a close to promixty to Lebansese, Syrian and most importantly Palestinians. That would pretty much lay to rest your arguement that Palestinians are descened form Arabs. You dont understand the National movement of Palestinians
at first a joining with Syria was wanted. When many Palestinians realized that this was unrealistic they opted for the Palestinian national borders instead. There is no such thing as Palestine? There is no such thing as Iraq, as Syria,or as Lebanon. There all geopolitical pieces left of the colonizers. As a matter of fact there
is no such thing as American or Australian. Why not ethnically cleanse them? Palestine was never a political reality, but a geographic one. The Israel today is what never existed, a western
modern sociery based archaic Jewish values, populated with Europeans all pretending to go back
2000 years ago? When did that ever exist?

Karim Khayal

Posted by: karim83 at February 2, 2006 1:09 PM

The large bulbed nose, the shaggy beard and olive skin, combined with a malicious sadistic grin, bend on terrorizing decent and God fearing whites´. Hmm, that reminds me of ceartain cartoons and films shown over 65 years ago. The malicious Anti-Semitism that led to the murder of six million Jews is still in your veins.The fear of the other, the easterner. He cant be trusted, his intents are always seedy and malignant, he smiles at you and stabs your back when you turn around. This hypocricy is astounding. Dont we have laws against discrimination of religious minorities? What if the people depicted were Jews?
How can it be freedom of speech when someone is offended, unless we delight in it? This is not freedom, this is Nazi Ideology. Its aim is to isolate a ceartain part of the population, making them different and frightening. Its just a few ahead of making them outlaws. Shame on all of you. I am not coming back here again. And frankly if this website gets hacked I wont give a damn. You deserved nothing less.

Karim Khayal

Posted by: karim83 at February 2, 2006 2:07 PM

karim,
I'm glad you like that olive toned skin. My mother was olive-skinned [in Yiddish she was described as shvarts-kheyn'ev-dik; meanly darkly attractive; kheyn is the Yiddish pronunciation of the Hebrew word hhen =feminine charm]. I thought she was beautiful as most boys probably see their mothers. Now, although our genes may resemble those of Arabs, we are not now especially concerned about Germans or pink-skinned Danes coming to kill us. It is the Arabs who seem most of all peoples to want to kill us nowadays. We also see how some Arabs enjoy killing each other so much. After all, the more than 100,000 Arabs slaughtered in the Algerian civil war over the last 14 years were killed by fellow Arabs, by fellow Muslims. Then in the 1970s and 1980s we had more than 100,000 killed in the Lebanese civil war. So apparently, the resemblance in genes doesn't seem to quench the blood lust. Indeed, the German Nazis did have the notion of killing swarthy Jews --as you point out-- as in the cartoons in der Stuermer and the movie Jud Suss, etc. But how is that relevant to the slaughters perpetrated by Arabs on Arabs, by Sunni Pakistanis on Shiite Pakistanis, etc.? Why are the Arabs so often slaughtering fellow human beings, even their own? How do you explain the wedding bombings in the hotels in the Jordanian capital city, Rabbat Ammon?

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 2, 2006 7:11 PM

by the way, if our Jewish genes --Ashkenazi, Sefardi, Yemenite, etc.-- resemble Arab genes, then why do you speak of a "Zionist myth," as if we were not descended from ancient Middle Eastern people?

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 2, 2006 7:15 PM

Karim - please explain why these verses are abrogated...

From Arabs for Israel:

Israel in the Quran

2:47 Children of Israel! call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you,
and that I preferred you to all other nations. 2:122 O Children of Israel!
call to mind the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you
to all other nations.

7:137 And We made the children of Israel, who were considered weak (and of
no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We
sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the
Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We leveled
to the ground the great works and fine
buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride). 17:104
And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the
land of promise":
10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and
provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been
granted to them.

20:80 O ye Children of Israel! We delivered you from your enemy, and We
made a Covenant with you to give you the right side (the blessed side) of
Mount Sinai, and We sent down to you Manna (special food) and quails.

26:59 Thus it was, but We made the Children of Israel inheritors of such
things (the promised land)

45:16 We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power
of Command, and Prophet hood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and
pure; and We favored them above all other nations.

44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the 'Alamn
(mankind, and jinns) and our choice was based on a deep knowledge.

32.23] And certainly We gave the Book to Moses, so be not in doubt
concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of
Israel.
[32.24] And We made of them Guiding Lights and leaders to guide by Our
command as they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

[17:104] And we said to the Children of Israel afterwards, scatter and
live all over the worldand when the end of the world is near we will
gather you again into the Promised Land.

(Comment : This last verse proves that the Quran is declaring that it is
the will of G-d himself to gather the children of Israel again in their
promised land before the end days. Accordingly, No Muslim has the right to
interfere with gathering the Jews in Israel again as this is the will of
G-d himself. In addition, Honest analysis of the Quranic verses above leads
to the conclusion that the West Bank and Gaza are better called the
occupied Israeli land.

Posted by: Animus Fox at February 2, 2006 11:07 PM

We enjoyed his company until one day the subject of Israel came up. He said to me, ”But, of course, you know that sooner or later the Israelis will have to go.” In his mind, the matter was a foregone conclusion and discussion was out of the question. Mavis chimed in, ”Like the Crusaders.” Understandably, I lost any interest in Zaki Badawi as a dining companion.

I understand that Richard Nixon made much the same observation (see http://www.nationalreview.com/derbyshire/derbyshire013102.shtml).

Posted by: Seamus at February 3, 2006 4:26 PM