Only 7% in Britain?

They must realize they are more likely to be part of those targeted, if only by circumstance.

OT: Jihad's Second Front:

California schools Proselytize for islam (Grade-school Indoctrination, as predicted):
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21197

The Opposite of Intelligence:
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/debrasaunders/2006/02/07/185478.html

Posted by: Gary at February 7, 2006 8:58 AM

This was a sample of 500, not huge but not tiny. There are about 1.6 million Muslims in Britain. If this poll is representative, this means that an astonishing 112,000 (7%) of them believe suicide attacks in Britain are right.

Even if the poll is completely unrepresentative, as no doubt apologists will try to argue, at least 35 Muslims think this. I wonder how many Hindus and Quakers agree.

Posted by: Interested at February 7, 2006 9:00 AM

I'll be interested to hear how those who insist that antizionism is not the same as antisemitism explain this.

Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at February 7, 2006 9:11 AM

Nearly two fifths (37 per cent) believe that the Jewish community in Britain is a legitimate target

I know that most readers here will know exactly what that means: a target for Muslim bullets and bombs. But aren't the appologists going to say that what it means is that Jews are legitimate targets for Muslims' peaceful protests!

Posted by: FallingProphet at February 7, 2006 9:32 AM

Why limit it to British Jews...all Joo's are pigs and apes, are they not...what Allahu Akbar really means is 'death to pigs and apes'. The posters didn't ask enough questions.

Posted by: duh_swami at February 7, 2006 9:44 AM

Look at the conclusione:

"Supporters of violence remain a small minority, but a wide gulf remains over the fundamentals of freedom of speech and democracy."

Typical pc crap. A small minorit? A much higher percentage of british muslims support suicide bombings than americans who voted for ralph nader.

Posted by: restitutor orbis at February 7, 2006 9:52 AM

The posters didn't ask enough questions.

Right, Duh Swami, and they should have been much more specific, including a few multiple choice questions:

How would you encourage your (sizeable minority of) Jihadi Muslim brothers to target Jews?

a) indiscriminate synagogue fire bombings
b) targeted knife attacks
c) spam hate mail campaign over the Internet
d) targeted e-mails to individual Jews

Posted by: FallingProphet at February 7, 2006 10:12 AM

I think that the European leaders are playing a dangerous game.

There are limits to everything. And here is a case which limits should be placed on openness and inclusiveness.

Taking on large Islamic populations is dangerous. Because while we are trying to be inclusive, these people have religious aims which prevent them from becoming included. And in fact require, that the 'welcoming' or host nation, instead become 'included' in their religion.

Scratching their heads profoundly: - European leaders will eventually learn, that the people of the Islamic world have a different agenda and that is to turn the entire world into an Islamic State.

Include them at our peril – don’t the Russians need a job? However imperfect they are, they will not try to take over the place.

Posted by: Pass It On at February 7, 2006 10:22 AM

there's a story in the NY Times online today that's been strangely altered. Originating from Associated Press it was titled "NATO troops fire on Afghan attackers" but the same piece at the NY Times is called "Norwegians fire on Afghan protesters"
-it seems the NATO soldiers were inside their base in the Afghan city of Maymana when protesters "shot at them, and threw grenades" "The protesters also burned an armored vehicle, a U.N. car and guard posts"
-there's also mention that the protesters fired first.
-and there was something at the bottom from AP about this material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Biased reporting?

Posted by: Rob at February 7, 2006 10:26 AM

“as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East”.
-- from the Times Online question

My, what a tendentious phrasing of the question. If the Lesser Jihad against Israel, which began even before the State of Israel came into existence, and which is based solidly, and clearly, on the absolute refusal to contemplate any non-Muslim sovereign state either within the Dar al-Islam (where the existence of Israel is particularly galling, given that it is run by Jews, historically so weak and despised as compared to the Christians who were always regarded as a more powerful and dangerous enemy of Islam) or, ultimately, anywhere, for "Islam is to dominate and not to be dominated," can be referred to as "an ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East" then the London Times itself has failed its readers. It might have phrased it thus:

"as part of the ongoing struggle to defeat (remove, bring to an end) the Infidel state of Israel"

and that would have not displeased the Muslims in question who were questioned, and would have not provided more Muslim propaganda in the very asking of the question.

Only a fool at this point could see the Lesser Jihad against Israel as a "nationalist" struggle for the "legitimate rights" of the recently-invented "Palestinian" people. And only a fool at this point would fail to understand that the Lesser Jihad against Israel was, before the OPEC oil trillions arrived, and before millions of Mulims were allowed to settle in Europe and in other Infidel countries behind what they, the Muslims themselves, are taught to regard as enemy lines (for Dar al-Harb is the name given to all the lands where Islam does not dominate and Muslims do not yet rule -- but, by right, eventually will), merely the opening gun, the initial campaign, in the Greater Jihad now being waged here, and there, and everywhere, from southern Thailand and the Moluccas and the Philippines, to Western Europe and even North America. The Greater Jihad recapitulates the Lesser Jihad -- same principles, same relentlessness, same goals, same methods.

Posted by: Hugh at February 7, 2006 10:47 AM

Interested posted: This was a sample of 500, not huge but not tiny. There are about 1.6 million Muslims in Britain. If this poll is representative, this means that an astonishing 112,000 (7%) of them believe suicide attacks in Britain are right.

1.6m figure is from the last census. I think there are nearly 5 million muslims in the UK. So you can triple the number of muslims who think it legitimate to wage war on the Crown.

Posted by: DP111 at February 7, 2006 10:50 AM

Four major problems with a 7% of British Muslims who feel suicide bombings are justified in Britain:

1) non-Muslims for the most part cannot tell, among the total population of British Muslims, which of them belong to the 7%;

2) that 7% is not necessarily a static statistic: it may go up, it may go down;

3) that 7% statistic may not be accurate as a low estimate, and there is no way for non-Muslims to know (but good reason to suspect) whether there are more Muslims who feel this way;

4) even if 7% is accurate, this does not tell us how many Muslims outside that 7% would not in semi-passive ways aid and abet (by looking the other way from suspicious behavior, not cooperating with authorities, providing safe house for plotters, acting as couriers of information or materiel, etc.) those among the 7% who would actively plot and carry out suicide bombings or other terrorist attacks.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at February 7, 2006 11:15 AM

I guess someone should ask Blair how that immigration policy is working out?

I wonder why the Jews stay there? The government is clearly on the side of the aggressors; isn't the handwriting on the wall?

Posted by: Seymour Paine at February 7, 2006 11:32 AM

The sad thing is, even if these polls are noticed by European or UK politicians, their response won't be to question their underlyging premises regarding Islam, and the presence of menacing numbers of Muslims in their midst -- they will redouble their efforts to appease, to win Muslim "hearts and minds", to spend untold mountains of treasure trying to bribe/appease/edify these seditious hatemongering fascists in their midst... They will continue to ask "What have WE done to make them hates us so...?!" and "What can WE do to make them hate us less...?"

They don't seem to be able to stomach the idea of finally confronting this seditious Muslim infestation and demand some action -- demand some reform among Muslims in these Western domains.

When was the last time you heard a Western Leader demand changes in behavior from the Muslims? At best we hear vapid little hints and innuendos that such would be nice, that "more needs to be done" and other such claptrap...

I am SICK of paying tax dollars aiding incompetent Muslim governments, propping them up, and with little to nothing but heartache, fear, and apprehension in return. I am SICK listening to Muslims tell me in my country how WE are the ones who need to soul search, how WE are the ones in need of reform, how WE are the ones who have caused Muslims to become "radical", and how WE are the ones who need to change, or that Muslims are the victims of Western transgressions, rather than the other way around...

It's time we started laying down the law with the immature rageful naughty haughty Muslim world...

It's time we started telling them in strong terms that THEY, THE MUSLIMS must do some serious soul searching, that THEY, THE MUSLIMSmust reform their backward diseased cesspool societies, that ISLAM is at fault for "radicalizing" the Muslim world, that THEY, THE MUSLIMS are the perpetrators of horrible crimes against us, the non-Muslim world, that THEY, THE MUSLIMS are responsible for their cesspool societies, their radicalization, their hatefulness, their ignorance -- and that blaming us for all their myriad failures just won't wash any more....

Let's start really kicking them back... Let's start yelling back at them -- and pointing ourfingers in their faces for a change -- Let's start menacing them for a change, Let's start making them wonder all the time, rather than allowing them to always be the ones to make us wonder and worry and fear for our future...

And if that doesn't work, then let's start getting serious about winning against them in a genuine war... Muslims mince no words in announcing that they consider us their mortal enemies. Muslims are acting on their convictions to kill us, defame us, undermine us, and annihilate us from the face of the earth... If need be, and if nothing else works, we must adopt a similar stance against them... I have no doubt that we would prevail against these sickening heathens.

Posted by: jsla at February 7, 2006 11:50 AM

So let's see: 7% of British Muslims support bombing in UK. AND 37% SUPPORT ATTACKS AGAINST JEWS IN UK.

Yes, that makes sense, like the picture of the child with the "I love Al-quaeda" bonnet and the floating pancart at her side.

Posted by: Ispanan at February 7, 2006 12:48 PM

the London Times itself has failed its readers.

Hugh, it wasn't The Times that asked the question. From the article:

Populus was commissioned by a coalition of Jewish community groups to undertake a poll of 500 British Muslims between December 9 and 19 (of whom 30 per cent were in London and 55 per cent were aged between 18 and 34). The results have now been made available to The Times.

It is not clear to me whether the quotation “as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East” is part of a question or part of an answer. If the former, it is a very biased question, whoever asked it.

Posted by: Interested at February 7, 2006 1:06 PM

I am basically speechless. 37% of British Muslims admit to an infidel that they feel it is acceptable to target British Jews, based soley on their religion. This just gets more and more unbelievable.

And as Dr. Pepper said, that is only the number willing to do the actual targeting. What is the number of people willing to support, actively or passively, those doing the targeting?

And yet even today on the MSM they are talking about how the cartoonists "provoked" the Muslims, and how their government was being pressured to apologize.

Posted by: special_guest at February 7, 2006 2:17 PM

The comment from JLSA "THE MUSLIMS must reform their backward diseased cesspool societies", is a comment remnant from the days of the British Empire.
One of the many reasons the Muslims do not trust us is because we acted aggressively towards them.
We have invaded their countries , subjugated their peoples for many years as part of our Imperial expansion.
Our record is not without stain.
In 1910 we (British) formalised an agreement to give Palestine to the Jews.
Invaded Egypt along with the French in 1956 taking the Sanai. this had to be stopped by the U.S.
However there are some decent Muslims (mostly educated) trying to bring common sense to this ongoing slaughter.
I think people tend to forget we are not that civilised ! we have closed a century in which over 100 million perished through war, polical purges etc.
Dont be quick to judge the All the Muslims community for the actions of a few hundred out of a 1.2 billion

Posted by: Peter at February 7, 2006 2:47 PM

there's a story in the NY Times online today that's been strangely altered. Originating from Associated Press it was titled "NATO troops fire on Afghan attackers" but the same piece at the NY Times is called "Norwegians fire on Afghan protesters"
-it seems the NATO soldiers were inside their base in the Afghan city of Maymana when protesters "shot at them, and threw grenades" "The protesters also burned an armored vehicle, a U.N. car and guard posts"
-there's also mention that the protesters fired first.
-and there was something at the bottom from AP about this material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Biased reporting?

Posted by: Rob at February 7, 2006 10:26 AM

No doubt AP is using reporters with "Middle Eastern" experience to cover this story.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at February 7, 2006 3:15 PM

Thanks, Peter, for your comments which are a remnant from the days of the leftist moral equivalencer and Islamist apologist. Those dark days are still with us sadly, but less and less! And that is not a sad thing.

Posted by: jsla at February 7, 2006 3:26 PM

One of the many reasons the Muslims do not trust us is because we acted aggressively towards them.We have invaded their countries , subjugated their peoples for many years as part of our Imperial expansion.

The same could be said of India, yet Hindus are not behaving in this way. Hindus and Sikhs in the UK have assimilated very well, and are extremely successful. Any racism that the Muslims faced - and yes, there has been racism - Hindus and Sikhs faced too. They have got over it, and their colonial past.

Dont be quick to judge the All the Muslims community for the actions of a few hundred out of a 1.2 billion

I'm not judging all Muslims, but I'm judging Islam. Also, failure of Muslims to condemn their "brothers" leads one to draw one's own conclusions.

Posted by: Interested at February 7, 2006 4:05 PM

also, regarding "Dont be quick to judge the All the Muslims community for the actions of a few hundred out of a 1.2 billion"

Quick? Quick? Aside from Interested's excellent points above, we've seen at least 3 decades of escalating Muslim atrocities against all manner of non-Muslims in the world -- these are global incidents -- they range from Russia, the Philippines, Indonesia, the Balkans, America, Europe, and mostly Africa... Some estimates put the deathtoll in the various simmering insurgencies, all out wars, and genocides in Muslim lands at 100,000,000 in the last two decades -- this isn't to underestimate the horrors and the carnage caused by Germany and Japan in World War 2, nor does it mitigate crimes of the communist regimes of the USSR and Chins under which some estimates put the number of murdered souls between 50,000,000 to 100,000,000...

Fully 6 years after defeating the Nazi and Imperial Japanese nightmares of world domination -- what nations and what leaders can be heard daily preaching, praying, and calling for the annihilation of other nations? It is only the Muslim ones that I know of today -- The Saudi Clerics, those at the epicenter of Islam, and the leading voices in the Sunni sect of Islam call for the murder of Americans, Christians, Europeans, and the Jews. The epicenter of Shiite Islam, Iran, has recently been publicised as calling for "wiping Israel off the face of the globe" but this is nothing new... The leaders of Iran, and in public, the leaders of the Sauidi religious establishment have not been shy about calling for our annihilation.

It is deeply offensive for me to hear this poster attempting to equate past Western transgressions with the current ones of Islam today -- this smells of the same line the Islamists use to dredge up old and new, real and imagined transgressions of Christians Westerners and infidels in general to justify their heinous deeds, or explain away their horrific failures as a society. Their religion also appears to be a complete failure for its seemingly intractable additions to hatred, violence, and death... But it can also be seen as a failure simply by looking at the Muslim slaves under its thralldom -- Have you ever witnessed a more tortured, rage filled, unhappy mass of human souls?

The poster above would like to allege that this torture is somehow directly due to Western transgressions against Muslims -- But throughout history they have always used the myths of their victimhood to wreak horrific vengeance and death on the targets of their imperialist supremacist agenda.

The Koran is unambiguous -- Islam's goal is to dominate, and never be dominated... The latest resurgence of the age old Islamic Jihad is simply another chapter in the selfsame book which saw the subjugation of Egypt, Byzantium, Judea, Bablyon, Persia, Assyria, India, and many many others. These horrific blood stained conquests all ocurred before America, Israel or the accident of oil were ever on the radar screen of Islam...

What was, is, and always will be first and foremost on the radar screen of Islam is: MORE ISLAM -- LESS INFIDELS...

It is a simple and effective recipe -- We are not at fault for their behavior -- and I utterly reject the inference that we cannot criticize them, excoriate them for their failures, or fight and kill them just because we may have made this or that mistake in the past. It is an argument completely without merit. They are coming for us -- they intend to dominate us or annihilate us --

We must fight them without remorse, and withou relent, until WE win.... Any other course is insane to me.

Posted by: jsla at February 7, 2006 4:30 PM

should read 60 years -- please forgive my innumerable typos...

Posted by: jsla at February 7, 2006 4:32 PM

peter thinks "we" wronged the Muslims/Arabs by promising the Land of Israel [what he calls "palestine"] to the Jews. The Arabs usurped the Land of Israel in the Middle Ages. When the Arabs conquered the Land the Jews were probably slightly more than half the population [Prof. Moshe Gil]. After the conquest there was a period of easy rule by the Arabs which became harsher towards the end of the Umayyad dynasty, and worse during Abbasid rule. That's when significant numbers of Jews were emigrating from their land. The many wars and chaos of the Fatimid period drove out more Jews, in combination with the usual Muslim oppression. The Crusaders killed much or most of the surviving Jews in the Land. The Mamluks who replaced the Crusaders brought the land to a low cultural and economic status, mercilessly taxing the dhimmmis, etc. But peter seems to think that there was a "palestine." In fact, before the Crusades the military district of Jund Filastin occupied only the southern part of the country --roughly speaking. It coincided with the area that the Byzantine empire had called "Palaestina Prima," only part of the country. After the Crusades, use of the name "filastin" was not resumed. There never was such a thing as the "palestinian people." This "people" is a mid-20th century invention.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 8, 2006 7:00 AM

“The same could be said of India, yet Hindus are not behaving in this way”

Ah, no? Search info about the Gujarat riots, and how the Hindu extremists treat the Christian and Muslim minorities.

Oh, and one thing that may interest you as well is the Christian terrorism in northeast India.

“Hindus and Sikhs in the UK have assimilated very well, and are extremely successful”

What makes you think that?

“One of the many reasons the Muslims do not trust us is because we acted aggressively towards them.We have invaded their countries , subjugated their peoples for many years as part of our Imperial expansion.”

“The same could be said of India”

Indeed, although you forget to mention that there isn’t terrorism in all the Muslim countries who were colonized by Europe at one time.

But the differences are very simple: India didn’t have the British promise them their independence if they fought the Turks and then have their land given to the Jews; it didn’t have Israel occupying their land, slaughter their population or reduce it to apartheid, and have the West support it; India didn’t have its democratic government overthrown by a CIA coup, like it happened in Iran in 1953, and replaced by a brutal dictator who killed thousands of political opponents and tortured thousands more; India didn’t have the West arm one of its neighbours with chemical weapons and then have its same neighbour engage in a war who would cause 1.5 million of Iranian deaths, 100 000 of them by the Iraqi chemical weapons provided at the west, and it didn’t have the West support Iraq during this war; India wasn’t bombed by depleted uranium bombs which provoked cancer and birth deformities in the population; wasn’t subject to an embargo who killed 1.5 million people, the majority of them children, like in Iraq, and then have one of the officials of one of the government who imposed it appear on TV and say that the death of 500 000 Indian children was “worth the price”, as Madeleine Albright said concerning Iraq. And most importantly of all, India didn’t have the British bring the Wahabbis to power, like it happened in Saudi Arabia and didn’t have the CIA train one of its terrorist leaders and help him create his terrorist network, like it happened with bin laden. I’m tired of hearing clueless idiots talk about the crimes of the Muslims and pretending that their own countries had nothing to do with it.

“Some estimates put the deathtoll in the various simmering insurgencies, all out wars, and genocides in Muslim lands at 100,000,000 in the last two decades”

You are funny.

As for Eliyahu, it is quite interesting he mention the so said oppression of the Jews in the Muslim lands 800 years ago in an apparent intent to justify the oppression of Arabs by his people in the present area. One would think that after this oppression and the Holocaust, Jews should know better and not inflict to others the same that was inflicted to them. But I guess that for many of them, that’s not the case.

Passing your ridiculous statements about the Arab population, if we followed the Nazionist claim to Palestine, that would mean the white minorities in Africa and South America should leave and return to Europe, because they were there only 500 or 200 years ago, and that the Americans should return to Britain and give back the land to the Native Indians.

But its really useless to keep talking of this, so to illustrate the situation the best, and just in case you are unfamiliar with some of the 'faithful' writings of the forefathers of that illustrious state of Israel, here are some famous quotes. Sorry the golden quotes of 'Golda' are not among them, but when I come across them again I will certainly post them. The most famous one is the one we've all heard and loved… you know; "that there were no such people as the Palestinians, and that there was no Palestine". So I guess the people they are trying to kill off today are really figments of their imaginations… go figure.

DAVID BEN GURION, first Israeli Prime Minister. Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in
Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.:

"If I were an Arab
leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have
taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that
interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the
Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing:
we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

GENERAL MOSHE DAYAN'S address to the Technion, Haifa as Quoted in Ha'aretz,
April 4, 1969:

Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages.
You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame
you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the books not
exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahal arose in the place of
Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibat; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of
Huneifis; and Kfar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al Shuman. There is not
one single place that did not have a former Arab population."

VLADIMIR JABOTINSKY, founder of Revisionist Zionism (precursor of Likud),
The Iron Wall, 1923:

"A voluntary reconciliation with the Arabs is out of
the question either now or in the future. If you wish to colonize a land in
which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land,
or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your
behalf. Or else-or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed
force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or
prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not
dangerous, but IMPOSSIBLE! ... Zionism is a colonization adventure and
therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is
important ... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more
important to be able to shoot - or else I am through with playing at
colonizing."

THEODORE HERZL founder of the World Zionist Organization Complete Diaries,
June 12, 1895 entry:

"The removal of Arabs bodily from Palestine is part of
the Zionist plan to "spirit the penniless population across the frontier by
denying it employment ... Both the process of expropriation and the removal
of the poor must be carried away discreetly and circumspectly."

Michael Ben-Yair, Israeli attorney general in the 1990s, quoted in The
Guardian (U.K.), April 11, 2002:

'The Palestinian intifada is a war of
national liberation. We Israelis enthusiastically chose to become a
colonialist society, ignoring international treaties, expropriating lands,
transferring settlers from Israel to the occupied territories, engaging in
theft and finding justification for all these activities ... we established
an apartheid regime.'

Israeli General Moshe Daylan: "Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs
and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them".

ISRAEL KOENIG The Koenig Memorandum", Israeli government report:

"We must
use TERROR, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting
of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

“Also, failure of Muslims to condemn their "brothers" leads one to draw one's own conclusions.”

“It is only the Muslim ones that I know of today -- The Saudi Clerics, those at the epicenter of Islam, and the leading voices in the Sunni sect of Islam call for the murder of Americans, Christians, Europeans, and the Jews.”

One wonders what kind of “conclusion” people like you would make. You look like the tipical useful idiots who believe everything that is shoved down his throat and come so handy to the Islamophobes to spread their messages of hate.

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

http://www.mafhoum.com/press2/62S25.htm

Muslim Religious figures condemn terrorism *

"Hijacking Planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that can not be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."

Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001)

*The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society)."

Sept. 27, 2001 fatwa, signed by:

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar)

Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d'etat, Egypt

Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari'a, Egypt

Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria

Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria

Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council

*"Neither the law of Islam nor its ethical system justify such a crime."

Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London. Cited in Arab News, Sept. 28, 2001.

*"It is wrong to kill innocent people. It is also wrong to Praise those who kill innocent people."

Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. Cited in NY Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

*"What these people stand for is completely against all the principles that Arab Muslims believe in."

King Abdullah II, of Jordan; cited in Middle East Times, Sept. 28, 2001.

*Ingrid Mattson, a professor of Islamic studies and Muslim-Christian relations at Hartford Seminary in Hartford, said there was no basis in Islamic law or sacred text for Mr. bin Laden's remarks. "The basic theological distortion is that any means are permitted to achieve the end of protesting against perceived oppression."

Dr. Ingrid Mattson, a practicing Muslim.

Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders

Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan, Pakistan; Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh, Bangladesh; Shaykh Ahmad Yassin, Founder, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Palestine; Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia; Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia; and 40 other Muslim scholars and politicians:

"The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam which forbid all forms of attacks on innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Qur'an: 'No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another' (Surah al-Isra 17:15)."
MSANews, September 14, 2001, http://msanews.mynet.net/MSANEWS/200109/20010917.15.html;
Arabic original in al-Quds al-Arabi (London), September 14, 2001, p. 2, http://www.alquds.co.uk/Alquds/2001/09Sep/14%20Sep%20Fri/Quds02.pdf

Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar; Tariq Bishri, Egypt; Muhammad S. Awwa, Egypt; Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt; Haytham Khayyat, Syria; Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, U.S.:

"All Muslims ought to be united against all those who terrorize the innocents, and those who permit the killing of non-combatants without a justifiable reason. Islam has declared the spilling of blood and the destruction of property as absolute prohibitions until the Day of Judgment. ... [It is] necessary to apprehend the true perpetrators of these crimes, as well as those who aid and abet them through incitement, financing or other support. They must be brought to justice in an impartial court of law and [punished] appropriately. ... [It is] a duty of Muslims to participate in this effort with all possible means."
The Washington Post, October 11, 2001, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40545-2001Oct10.html

Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt:
"Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be punished on the day of judgement. ... It’s not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack."
Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001
Abdel-Mo'tei Bayyoumi, al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy, Cairo, Egypt:

"There is no terrorism or a threat to civilians in jihad [religious struggle]."
Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 20 - 26 September 2001, http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/552/p4fall3.htm

Muslim Brotherhood, an opposition Islamist group in Egypt, said it was "horrified" by the attack and expressed "condolences and sadness":
"[We] strongly condemn such activities that are against all humanist and Islamic morals. ... [We] condemn and oppose all aggression on human life, freedom and dignity anywhere in the world."
Al-Ahram Weekly Online, 13 - 19 September 2001, http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/551/fo2.htm

Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, spiritual guide of Shi‘i Muslim radicals in Lebanon, said he was "horrified" by these "barbaric ... crimes":

"Beside the fact that they are forbidden by Islam, these acts do not serve those who carried them out but their victims, who will reap the sympathy of the whole world. ... Islamists who live according to the human values of Islam could not commit such crimes."
Agence France Presse, September 14, 2001

‘Abdulaziz bin ‘Abdallah Al-Ashaykh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia:

"Firstly: the recent developments in the United States including hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood, constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts. Secondly: any Muslim who is aware of the teachings of his religion and who adheres to the directives of the Holy Qur'an and the sunnah (the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad) will never involve himself in such acts, because they will invoke the anger of God Almighty and lead to harm and corruption on earth."
http://saudiembassy.net/press_release/01-spa/09-15-Islam.htm

Shaykh Muhammad bin ‘Abdallah al-Sabil, member of the Council of Senior Religious Scholars, Saudi Arabia:

"Any attack on innocent people is unlawful and contrary to shari'a (Islamic law). ... Muslims must safeguard the lives, honor and property of Christians and Jews. Attacking them contradicts shari'a."
Agence France Presse, December 4, 2001

Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a prominent religious scholar in Qatar:

"Our hearts bleed for the attacks that has targeted the World Trade Center [WTC], as well as other institutions in the United States despite our strong oppositions to the American biased policy towards Israel on the military, political and economic fronts. Islam, the religion of tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack against innocent human beings a grave sin, this is backed by the Qur’anic verse which reads: ‘Who so ever kills a human being [as punishment] for [crimes] other than manslaughter or [sowing] corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and who so ever saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind’ (Al-Ma’idah:32)."
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2001-09/13/article25.shtml
See also Qaradawi's web-site: www.qaradawi.net

Ayatollah Ali Khamene’i, supreme jurist-ruler of Iran:

"Killing of people, in any place and with any kind of weapons, including atomic bombs, long-range missiles, biological or chemical weopons, passenger or war planes, carried out by any organization, country or individuals is condemned. ... It makes no difference whether such massacres happen in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Qana, Sabra, Shatila, Deir Yassin, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq or in New York and Washington."
Islamic Republic News Agency, September 16, 2001, http://www.irna.com/en/hphoto/010916000000.ehp.shtml

President Muhammad Khatami of Iran:

"The horrific terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, in the United States were perpetrated by cult of fanatics who had self-mutilated their ears and tongues, and could only communicate with perceived opponents through carnage and devastation." Address to the United Nations General Assembly, November 9, 2001, reported in The New York Times, November 10, 2001, http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/10/international/10KHAT.html

League of Arab States:

"The General-Secretariat of the League of Arab States shares with the people and government of the United States of America the feelings of revulsion, horror and shock over the terrorist attacks that ripped through the World Trade Centre and Pentagon, inflicting heavy damage and killing and wounding thousands of many nationalities. These terrorist crimes have been viewed by the League as inadmissible and deserving all condemnation. Divergence of views between the Arabs and the United States over the latter’s foreign policy on the Middle East crisis does in no way adversely affect the common Arab attitude of compassion with the people and government of the United States at such moments of facing the menace and ruthlessness of international terrorism. In more than one statement released since the horrendous attacks, the League has also expressed deep sympathy with the families of the victims. In remarks to newsmen immediately following the tragic events, Arab League Secretary-General Amre Moussa described the feelings of the Arab world as demonstrably sympathetic with the American people, particularly with families and individuals who lost their loved ones. "It is indeed tormenting that any country or people or city anywhere in the world be the scene of such disastrous attacks," he added. While convinced that it is both inconceivable and lamentable that such a large-scale, organised terrorist campaign take place anywhere, anytime, the League believes that the dreadful attacks against WTC and the Pentagon unveil, time and again, that the cancer of terrorism can be extensively damaging if left unchecked. It follows that there is a pressing and urgent need to combat world terrorism. In this context, an earlier call by [Egyptian] President Hosni Mubarak for convening an international conference to draw up universal accord on ways and means to eradicate this phenomenon and demonstrate international solidarity is worthy of active consideration. The Arabs have walked a large distancein the fight against cross-border terrorism by concluding in April 1998 the Arab Agreement on Combating Terrorism."
September 17, 2001, http://www.leagueofarabstates.org/E_Perspectives_17_09_01.asp

Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary-General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference:

"Following the bloody attacks against major buildings and installations in the United States yesterday, Tuesday, September 11, 2001, Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, secretary-general of the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), stated that he was shocked and deeply saddened when he heard of those attacks which led to the death and injury of a very large number of innocent American citizens. Dr. Belkeziz said he was denouncing and condemning those criminal and brutal acts that ran counter to all covenants, humanitarian values and divine religions foremost among which was Islam."
Press Release, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, September 12, 2001, http://www.oic-oci.org/press/english/september%202001/america%20on%20attack.htm

Organization of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers:

"The Conference strongly condemned the brutal terror acts that befell the United States, caused huge losses in human lives from various nationalities and wreaked tremendous destruction and damage in New York and Washington. It further reaffirmed that these terror acts ran counter to the teachings of the divine religions as well as ethical and human values, stressed the necessity of tracking down the perpetrators of these acts in the light of the results of investigations and bringing them to justice to inflict on them the penalty they deserve, and underscored its support of this effort. In this respect, the Conference expressed its condolences to and sympathy with the people and government of the United States and the families of the victims in these mournful and tragic circumstances."
Final Communique of the Ninth Extraordinary Session of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers, October 10, 2001, http://www.oic-oci.org/english/fm/All%20Download/frmex9.htm

Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, Head of the Directorate of Religious Affairs of Turkey:

"Any human being, regardless of his ethnic and religious origin, will never think of carrying out such a violent, evil attack. Whatever its purpose is, this action cannot be justified and tolerated."
Mehmet Nuri Yilmaz, "A Message on Ragaib Night and Terrorism," September 21, 2001, http://www.diyanet.gov.tr/duyurular/regaibing.htm

Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar), Turkish author:

"Islam does not encourage any kind of terrorism; in fact, it denounces it. Those who use terrorism in the name of Islam, in fact, have no other faculty except ignorance and hatred."
Harun Yahya, "Islam Denounces Terrorism," http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com

Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi, Pakistani-American Muslim leader:

"The sudden barbaric attack on innocent citizens living in peace is extremely distressing and deplorable. Every gentle human heart goes out to the victims of this attack and as humans we are ashamed at the barbarism perpetrated by a few people. Islam, which is a religion of peace and tolerance, condemns this act and sees this is as a wounding scar on the face of humanity. I appeal to Muslims to strongly condemn this act, express unity with the victims' relatives, donate blood, money and do whatever it takes to help the affected people."
"Messages From Shaikh Muhammad Yusuf Islahi," http://www.icna.org/wtc_islahi.htm

Abdal-Hakim Murad, British Muslim author:

"Targeting civilians is a negation of every possible school of Sunni Islam. Suicide bombing is so foreign to the Quranic ethos that the Prophet Samson is entirely absent from our scriptures."
"The Hijackers Were Not Muslims After All: Recapturing Islam From the Terrorists," http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/masud/ISLAM/ahm/recapturing.htm

Syed Mumtaz Ali, President of the Canadian Society of Muslims:

"We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Canadians in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."
Canadian Society of Muslims, Media Release, September 12, 2001, http://muslim-canada.org/news09112001.html

15 American Muslim organizations:

"We reiterate our unequivocal condemnation of the crime committed on September 11, 2001 and join our fellow Americans in mourning the loss of up to 6000 innocent civilians."
Muslim American Society (MAS), Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), Muslim Alliance of North America (MANA), Muslim Student Association (MSA), Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), Solidarity International, American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ), American Muslim Alliance (AMA), United Muslim Americans Association (UMAA), Islamic Media Foundation (IMF), American Muslim Foundation (AMF), Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations (CCMO), American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ), Muslim Arab Youth Association (MAYA), October 22, 2001, http://www.icna.org/wtc_pr.htm

American Muslim Political Coordination Council:
"American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."
http://capwiz.com/cair/issues/alert/?alertid=49818&type=CU&azip=

Dr. Agha Saeed, National Chair of the American Muslim Alliance:

"These attacks are against both divine and human laws and we condemn them in the strongest terms. The Muslim Americans join the nation in calling for swift apprehension and stiff punishment of the perpetrators, and offer our sympathies to the victims and their families."
http://www.amaweb.org/AMA%20Condemns.html

Hamza Yusuf, American Muslim leader:

"Religious zealots of any creed are defeated people who lash out in desperation, and they often do horrific things. And if these people [who committed murder on September 11] indeed are Arabs, Muslims, they're obviously very sick people and I can't even look at it in religious terms. It's politics, tragic politics. There's no Islamic justification for any of it. ... You can't kill innocent people. There's no Islamic declaration of war against the United States. I think every Muslim country except Afghanistan has an embassy in this country. And in Islam, a country where you have embassies is not considered a belligerent country. In Islam, the only wars that are permitted are between armies and they should engage on battlefields and engage nobly. The Prophet Muhammad said, ``Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,'' and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, ``Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies.'' The Hadith, the sayings of the Prophet, say that no one can punish with fire except the lord of fire. It's prohibited to burn anyone in Islam as a punishment. No one can grant these attackers any legitimacy. It was evil."
San Jose Mercury News, September 15, 2001, http://www0.mercurycenter.com/local/center/isl0916.htm

Nuh Ha Mim Keller, American Muslim author:

"Muslims have nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to hide, and should simply tell people what their scholars and religious leaders have always said: first, that the Wahhabi sect has nothing to do with orthodox Islam, for its lack of tolerance is a perversion of traditional values; and second, that killing civilians is wrong and immoral."
"Making the World Safe for Terrorism," September 30, 2001, http://66.34.131.5/ISLAM/nuh/terrorism.htm

Muslims Against Terrorism, a U.S.-based organization:

"As Muslims, we condemn terrorism in all its forms and manifestations. Ours is a religion of peace. We are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam."
http://www.muslimsagainstterrorism.org/aboutus.html

Abdulaziz Sachedina, professor of religious studies, University of Virginia:

"New York was grieving. Sorrow covered the horizons. The pain of separation and of missing family members, neighbors, citizens, humans could be felt in every corner of the country. That day was my personal day of "jihad" ("struggle") - jihad with my pride and my identity as a Muslim. This is the true meaning of jihad – "struggle with one’s own ego and false pride." I don’t ever recall that I had prayed so earnestly to God to spare attribution of such madness that was unleashed upon New York and Washington to the Muslims. I felt the pain and, perhaps for the first time in my entire life, I felt embarrassed at the thought that it could very well be my fellow Muslims who had committed this horrendous act of terrorism. How could these terrorists invoke God’s mercifulness and compassion when they had, through their evil act, put to shame the entire history of this great religion and its culture of toleration?"
"Where Was God on September 11?," http://www.virginia.edu/~soasia/newsletter/Fall01/God.html

Ali Khan, professor of law, Washburn University School of Law:

"To the most learned in the text of the Quran, these verses must be read in the context of many other verses that stipulate the Islamic law of war---a war that the Islamic leader must declare after due consultation with advisers. For the less learned, however, these verses may provide the motivation and even the plot for a merciless strike against a self-chosen enemy."
"Attack on America: An Islamic Perspective, September 17, 2001, http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew29.htm

Muqtedar Khan, assistant professor of political science, Adrian College, Michigan, USA:

"What happened on September 11th in New York and Washington DC will forever remain a horrible scar on the history of Islam and humanity. No matter how much we condemn it, and point to the Quran and the Sunnah to argue that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people, the fact remains that the perpetrators of this crime against humanity have indicated that their actions are sanctioned by Islamic values. The fact that even now several Muslim scholars and thousands of Muslims defend the accused is indicative that not all Muslims believe that the attacks are unIslamic. This is truly sad. ... If anywhere in your hearts there is any sympathy or understanding with those who committed this act, I invite you to ask yourself this question, would Muhammad (pbuh) sanction such an act? While encouraging Muslims to struggle against injustice (Al Quran 4:135), Allah also imposes strict rules of engagement. He says in unequivocal terms that to kill an innocent being is like killing entire humanity (Al Quran 5:32). He also encourages Muslims to forgive Jews and Christians if they have committed injustices against us (Al Quran 2:109, 3:159, 5:85)."
"Memo to American Muslims," October 5, 2001, http://www.ijtihad.org/memo.htm

Dr. Alaa Al-Yousuf, Bahraini economist and political activist:

"On Friday, 14 September [the first Friday prayers after 11 September], almost the whole world expressed its condemnation of the crime and its grief for the bereaved families of the victims. Those who abstained or, even worse, rejoiced, will have joined the terrorists, not in the murder, but in adding to the incalculable damage on the other victims of the atrocity,

Posted by: Ispanan at February 8, 2006 1:38 PM

ispanan and his friends want to forget that Jews as dhimmis were persecuted by Arabs-Muslims for more than a thousand years. This is well demonstrated in Bat Yeor's books and many other authorities and sources. I don't need Moshe Dayan or the crooked Michael ben Yair to tell me that. Now, when Golda Meir said that there was no "palestinian people" she was only speaking the truth. Indeed, Arab-Muslims were a majority of the population here in the Mamluk, Ottoman and British mandate periods. But they never called themselves a separate people. They considered themselves part of the Muslim ummah. Nor did they see the country that they now call "palestine" as a separate, distinct country. Nor did they use the name palestine or filastin. There was a Jund Filastin [district of Filastin] from the Arab conquest until the Crusades, but use of the name was not resumed after the Crusades. In any case, Filastin was not all of what the Arabs now call palestine or that the Romans/Byzantines called Palaestina. Filastin was only the former Byzantine district of Palaestina Prima, basically the south of the country.
Now as to the Holocaust, the Arab nationalist almost universally took part in it. That means Haj Amin el-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Nasser, Sadat, Rashid Ali el-Kailani, etc. You could say that the Muslim world invented modern genocide with the Armenian massacres, which were the work of various Muslim peoples, including Arabs.

Posted by: Eliyahu at February 8, 2006 2:46 PM

Ispanan also provides copious quotations of Moslems denouncing violence. But we have seen many times how the denunciations are very carefully worded. "Innocent people" should not be killed. But who do they think is innocent? Infidels who disavow allegiance to Allah's Messenger Muhammad?

And denouncing "those who committed 9/11" is also weasel words, since they also claim that the CIA and Mossad carried out 9/11, not Osama Bin Laden.

"Ours is a religion of peace." Well, there you have it, case closed. Believe that, or believe your own eyes as the towers fall, believe your own eyes as you read the Qur'an, believe your own eyes as the hostage is beheaded on video, believe your own eyes as you watch the rampaging crowds on the nightly news.

"The Hijackers Were Not True Muslims", "They Don't Speak For Islam", "The Wahabists are Extremists", "Jihad Means Struggle With One's Own Pride", we're just given a bunch of feel-good bumperstickers, as if they have any relevance to anyone or anything. They might still work with Bush/Rice et al, but they fall pretty flat here, with anyone who has actually read what the Qur'an and Hadith says.

Posted by: special_guest at February 8, 2006 3:25 PM

Well, eliyahu, you continue to ignore and justify the crimes of your country by bringing, yet again like you always do, the persecution of your people committed centuries ago, as if you and your nazionist friends thought, in their demented mindset, it can justify their present policies and than you are better than the Muslims who persecuted your people in the Middle Ages. I don’t really think you understand what I write, so I will repeat it again: WHO CARES THAT YOUR PEOPLE WERE PERSECUTED CENTURIES YEARS AGO? Does that affect you in any way? You were already alive back then, pehraps? Does that justify your country crimes in the present day, in 21th century, eliyahu? What kind of pathetic victimism are you trying to display, Eliyahu, when your country are treating the Palestinian people, both Muslim and Christian nearly the same way than Nazis did with yours? Who, besides the habitual nazionist apologists are you trying to deceive with this bullshit?

Do you forget it was the Jews who helped the Arabs conquer the Holy Land because they were being oppressed by the Bizantines? Do you forget where your people went when they were being expulsed from the Christian Europe? Do you forget where the golden age of Judaism took place?

And tell me who the hell cares how the Palestinian people was called? Does that excuse your country crushing them for 50 years, killing them, torturing them, destroy their homes and expelling them? Tell me DOES THAT JUSTIFY IT?

“You could say that the Muslim world invented modern genocide” Not really. It was your people who invented genocide when they arrived to Palestine and exterminated or enslaved the local population, killing all the males and keeping the virgin girls as sex-slaves as shown in full detail in texts like the Old Testament.

Fortunately the Jewish community is comprised of far more than ungrateful idiots. Fortunately there are many Jews who remember the Joint Arab-Jewish Palestinian battalion, the Indian Muslims who served with the English army in World War II, the Morocco and Tunisia leaders who saved Jews from the Vichy regime, the Arabs who saved Jews from deportation in France, the Muslims who served in the Soviet army, the Muslim officers who, when taken by the Nazis, would hide the identity of the Jews under their command, the Muslim Albanians and Muslim Bulgarians who sheltered the Jews as they were fleeing at the risk of saving their lives… Fortunately there ARE Jews who don’t forget that, Jews worthy of risking one’s life for.

Posted by: Ispanan at February 8, 2006 3:48 PM

Well, special guest, I was sure someone was going to come up with this. First you say no Muslim cleric of relevance condemns the attacks; when you are presented with the evidence, you say that “they are carefully worded” or any other stupid excuse you think of to try to deny what is evident.

When they don’t condem terrorism, because they don’t condemn terrorism… and when they condemn it, they don’t actually condemn it… either way, you are not satisfied…

And now go look at the neonazi manifestations in Denmark, the Christian terrorism in Uganda or northeast India, or the nice things Christian terrorists say to Abortion clinic workers.

And yes I am aware that Christian children in Indonesia beheaded. I am also aware of what your government (and by complicity the citizens who supported it) did to Iraqi children. Poor morons, so convinced of their moral superiority, firmly believing in their stupidity they are any better than Bin Laden…

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/gulf_war_syndrome/uranium_infanticide.html

Posted by: Ispanan at February 8, 2006 4:03 PM