Alright Robert! You go!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Siciliano at February 20, 2006 6:07 PM

Spencer: "it is also useful to consider that little or nothing of what fills galleries and museums in the West would even have been produced in the first place if earlier jihads had succeeded in subjugating Europe"

I don't know about that. Andy Warhol could have had a field day reproducing on canvas dozens of identical silkscreens of burka-clad faces. Burka-clad faces sort of resemble Campbell's soup can labels, don't they?

Posted by: Caroline at February 20, 2006 6:26 PM

What bothers me about the whole cartoon caper is that Muslims are damaging one of their most useful techniques by pitching an uproar. It strengthens my belief that it's just a destraction.

Posted by: JadeDragoness at February 20, 2006 6:26 PM

Is he doing a painting or making a drivers license?

JLP

Posted by: John Lee Pedimore at February 20, 2006 6:34 PM

Absolutely. Most people nowadays probably think of art in a kind of quasi-Kantian way - as being primarily about some kind of neutral aesthetic contemplation. But it's not: "art for art's sake" is a very late arrival on the scene. You come up with nonsense if you try to understand any art prior to the late modern period in this way as David Lewis-Williams showed with the cave paintings.

European art - and music - has grown out of the European religious consciousness, and you've only got to walk around a gallery with, for example, some 15th-century Italian collections to see that.

Michael Tanner suggests that in the Sanctus of the Mass in B minor Bach "celebrates as no one ever has before or since". You can't separate Bach's music from the religious tradition that it grew in.

No European religious consciousness, no European art or music.

Posted by: Yojimbo at February 20, 2006 6:39 PM

Spencer posted

It is also useful to consider that little or nothing of what fills galleries and museums in the West would even have been produced in the first place if earlier jihads had succeeded in subjugating Europe.

Not just that but the entire revolution in sciences and technology would not have occurred. It is worth noting that the forced recantation by Galileo lead to the shutting down of free enquiry in the Catholic world. From that moment the centre of free enquiry moved to Protestant nations, chiefly Britain.

Of recent events in Norway

There, to the astonishment of his supporters, Selbekk issued an abject apology for reprinting the cartoons. At his side, accepting his act of contrition on behalf of 46 Muslim organizations and asking that all threats now be withdrawn, was Mohammed Hamdan, head of Norway’s Islamic Council. In attendance were members of the Norwegian cabinet and the largest assemblage of imams in Norway's history. It was a picture right out of a sharia courtroom: the dhimmi prostrating himself before the Muslim leader, and the leader pardoning him – and, for good measure, declaring Selbekk to be henceforth under his protection, as if it were he, Hamdan, and not the Norwegian police, that held in his hands the security of citizens in Norway.

What this reminds me is of Galileo's forced recantation in front of papal clerics, after he had been shown the instruments of torture. Let there be no illusions about this incidence. In scale and import, it has all the hallmarks, and thus the implications of Galileo's humiliation

Posted by: DP111 at February 20, 2006 6:40 PM

Just think. If islam had successfully invaded Europe, we would still be in the Dark Ages. In fact a far worse one, as it would be Islamic Dark ages.

We would believe that the sun set in some marshes. No theories of Newton, atomic theory, quantum theory, Relativity, Evolution, DNA, antibiotics, vaccination..the list is endless. The scientific revolution changed not only our view of the universe but our relation to it.

And we wouldnt be sitting before our computer screens, as we or our ancestors would never have survived the ravages of famine and pestillence.

Posted by: DP111 at February 20, 2006 6:46 PM

DP111: "What this reminds me is of Galileo's forced recantation in front of papal clerics,"

DP111 - I had the same thoughts about the French philosopher Alain Finkielkraut's interview by Jean-Pierre Elkabach after the french riots, only in this case, the Euro-PC police played the part of the clerics. In case you missed this translation the first go-round:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/004639.html

Posted by: Caroline at February 20, 2006 6:59 PM

Caroline

Thanks for the link. It is a long read. Alain Finkielkraut's interview is on the integration of muslims in France.
------------------------------
Free enquiry coupled with Freedom of expression is what allowed Protestant Europe, and Britain in particular, to make the huge revolutionary strides in mathematics, sciences, medicine and engineering. When these Freedoms are limited in any sphere, progress flees, if it can, to another geographic location - muslims are putting not just the present but the future in jeopardy, not just for Infidels but muslims as well.

So I'm all for Integration. But it is a complete waste of time and money to try and integrate people who have no interest in integrating, or as in the muslim case, violently opposed to it. Far better to use that subsidy for Integration to intgrate muslims back into their own society where they would naturally integrate.

Posted by: DP111 at February 20, 2006 7:35 PM

I get the feeling that in years to come, as we emerge from our current politically correct nightmare, historical heroes, long forgotten, like Charles Martel will see a resurgence in interest.

what european nowadays knows about the Battle Of Tours in 732?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_tours

it wasnt any old battle - it "is considered by most historians to be of macrohistorical importance, in that it halted the Islamic conquests, and preserved Christianity as the controlling faith in Europe, during a period in which Islam was overrunning the remains of the old Roman and Persian Empires"

Tours isnt on the border of Moorish Spain - have a look at this map to see just how far the Islamic armies had advanced into France:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tours_dot.png

Posted by: archduke at February 20, 2006 7:36 PM

If the cartoonist had captioned this:

"Mohammad drawing the Mona Lisa"

he would now be under a death threat, also.

Discretion is the better part of humor?

Isn't he caving as well?

Posted by: profitsbeard at February 20, 2006 7:36 PM

Re: Ok, smile, Mona

If you think the West has a problem, just think of how Islam is in crisis. Under all the threats emanating from Islam there is an ocean of fear.

The revolution of transport (thst emanated in the West) shrank the world in the past 100 years, and the Communication Revolution of the past 50 years (lately the Internet) is unstoppable. Luddite Moslem Clerics hate the consequences of these revolutions because it threatens their power.

The Ludites want to escape to the seventh century, to a world that no longer exists, in order to keep their power. They retreat from reality, into psychosis, fear women burning burkers. Their nightmare might just come true.

Posted by: Frank at February 20, 2006 7:36 PM

Nor would the Mona Lisa have the curious smirk and placidly amused look in her eyes that have fascinated generations of viewers, but instead, the dead, expressionless eyes of one indoctrinated to be a submissive piece of property, like so many of the niqab-wearing women who turned out for the cartoon protests.

Posted by: Shinoliite at February 20, 2006 7:37 PM

Dateline: Totonto.Canada

At a peaceful pro-Islam rally in front of the Provincial Governemnt Legislature a new convert to Islam assured Canadians there will be "Peace in our time" by taking to the Mic which other Muslims allowed, and stated the assertion below.

*********************
Toronto Sun Paper Feb/19/06:

" Muhammed Robert Heft, of Paradise 4 Ever, described as a new Muslim converts organization, took the microphone yesterday to declare, "We will never be totally free until Islamic law is the law of the world."
But Abdul Qayyum Mufti, an organizer of the event and representative of the United Front of Canada, said neither he nor the Muslim organization supports that comment.
"Anyone who's coming on stage is an individual expressing his own opinion," he said. "We don't endorse that view."
***********************************************

Bull S%IT , they did nothing to stop it as we've seen in Muslim nations where Christians are being jailed and or murdered as Kufars.

How ironic that because one cartoon in a foreign land offended Islam ,we in Canada must now live in fear for our lives by these yahoo's that hold a rally and let someone spew hate and then excuse it away as free-speech and the actions of only one person.

THAT'S WHAT THE CARTOON WAS ABOUT YOU MORONS, GET OUT OF ISLAM WHILE YOU'RE STILL PARTLY SANE.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at February 20, 2006 7:44 PM

Frank says,

Their nightmare might just come true.

You are correct. This report from Malaysia would have the non-Islamic world believing the opposite, but if carefully read between the lines it is obvious the Islamic world is the one that cringes in fear.

Mistrust and fear of Islam is growing every day in the West, Malaysia's leader warned Monday, and called for a high-level dialogue between the two sides to prevent disputes such as the one over Prophet Muhammad's cartoons.

Malaysia, which currently heads the Organization of the Islamic Conference, is willing to host annual round-table discussions between Muslims and Westerners to kick-start the dialogue, Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi told The Associated Press in an interview.

"Bring anybody. We are not saying you shouldn't come, or you shouldn't come. Let's talk. There is a genuine need to see that there is a mutual respect between peoples," said Abdullah, the OIC chairman and a respected Islamic scholar.

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at February 20, 2006 8:12 PM

A generally good cartoon, but I would have titled it:

"If Leonardo Da Vinci Caved in to Authentic islam Like 21st Century Newspapers"

Wearing a Burka or Niqab is mainstream, authentic islamic behavior. It is not extreme.

Posted by: del at February 20, 2006 8:16 PM

DP111 sez:

"...Far better to use that subsidy for Integration to integrate muslims back into their own society where they would naturally integrate..."

As one of the resident posters here you would have learnt by now that Mohammedans claim all the world for 'Allah'. Be sure that in their queer and warped concept of booty and conquest Infidels own nothing, are 'the worst of creatures' and no infidel government is legitimate. The systematic infiltration of infidel countries by the sons of Allah over the last 40 years is systematic and encouraged by the 'ummah', by the Saudi's and the clerics who demand fierce proselytizing (Da'awa) If you tell them to f#@k off to where the Sharia reigns they will simply tell you 'there's no need for that because soon your country will be Islamic anyway...'

As for spending money to resettle them in their home-countries:
The German government tried that years ago with the Turks and spent quite a bit of money to make them go back.

Many of them took the money and after 6 months holiday in Turkey they came back with the extended family.

Internment and deportations NOW!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 20, 2006 8:26 PM

Iran denies wanting to "wipe Israel off the map"

Another indication of the fear felt by the Islamic world when realizing the fatal retribution capable of the non-Islamic world.

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at February 20, 2006 8:29 PM

ala_sux: "a new convert to Islam assured Canadians there will be "Peace in our time"

....Muhammed Robert Heft, of Paradise 4 Ever, described as a new Muslim converts organization, took the microphone yesterday to declare, "We will never be totally free until Islamic law is the law of the world."

Evidently there are a whole lot of "Utopians" - which include both Muslims themselves as well as deluded westerners (also of the same "utopian" mold, who are aligning with them), who sincerely believe that "peace on earth" shall be achieved when all mankind is united under the same flag. The logic apparently goes

Human differences cause conflict! So let's eliminate all differences, even if it requires violent force to do so, and hence we eliminate human conflict, and therefore, peace will prevail, "in our time" no less!

(Of course one way to eliminate female differences , especially where their beauty is concerned, is to cover them all up in a sack. I can't help but think that ugly women might not have a bit of a stake there and that that might not partially account for western feminists willingness to sell out their sisters to the burka).

Although I think that Muslims may be largely beyond hope in appreciating basic moral propositions, I still bellieve there is some hope for deluded westerners who buy into such utopian notions. And so to them I say

Think about it. Before you go running off in your arrogant confidence to supposedly change the world for the better by turning every human being into the equivalent of a cookie-cutter, Campbell soup can-label, please reflect for just a few brief minutes on the distinct possibility (which history itself has abundantly demonstrated), that

The Road to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions.

Posted by: Caroline at February 20, 2006 8:48 PM

I wonder if the eyes of the new Mona would follow you like the old one. I remember going from side to side in the room at the Louvre, just staring at the eyes. With a burka, it would make the experience more moving as everything else is covered.

Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at February 20, 2006 9:14 PM

Hey, ala-sux, nice to see you again!

Ala-sux said:

How ironic that because one cartoon in a foreign land offended Islam ,we in Canada must now live in fear for our lives by these yahoo's that hold a rally and let someone spew hate and then excuse it away as free-speech and the actions of only one person.

We don't necessarily need to live in fear - we can still write to our local newspapers and call our MP's. At least this week.

As for living in fear, I think that some people don't even have that concept. My 18 year old is driving a 20-year old Toyota, and is begging for a 'Defeat Jihad!' bumper sticker- his reasoning being that his car is already older than he is and won't be missed.
:D

Since we live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood, I'm not sure that this is the best idea i've heard, but it certainly is funny!

Posted by: libbysmom at February 20, 2006 10:44 PM

Even without "the prophet" in it he'll probably get death threats. A brave drawing of sorts.

Posted by: Hammer_Time at February 20, 2006 11:17 PM

Any bets that this phenomenon in England is driven by Muslims more than by Christians or Jews?

http://education.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,329416963-108229,00.html

Academics fight rise of creationism at universities
· More students believe Darwin got it wrong
· Royal Society challenges 'insidious problem'

Duncan Campbell
Tuesday February 21, 2006

Guardian

"A growing number of science students on British campuses and in sixth form colleges are challenging the theory of evolution and arguing that Darwin was wrong. Some are being failed in university exams because they quote sayings from the Bible or Qur'an as scientific fact and at one sixth form college in London most biology students are now thought to be creationists.
Earlier this month Muslim medical students in London distributed leaflets that dismissed Darwin's theories as false. Evangelical Christian students are also increasingly vocal in challenging the notion of evolution."

Of course, the cpward;y Guardian will never come out and say so.

Posted by: scribe10 at February 21, 2006 12:00 AM

scribe10-

But the Koran certainly disproves evolution.

At least for those who believe it.

Posted by: profitsbeard at February 21, 2006 12:47 AM

http://www.inthefaceofevil.com/

A movie worth seeing a rose by any other name is still a rose

AND SO to is evil by any other name is still evil !!!

Kind of tells the story and what is happening different name but the same game??

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIVED BY THEM GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND TOGETHER TO FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

PS
I hear ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY LIKE A LITTLE GIRL ] can't even get it together to put out a new tape has to release old stuff?? SAD SAD NO SEE THE YELLOW COWARD SENCE TORA BORA??

Posted by: Catherine at February 21, 2006 1:08 AM

But the Koran certainly disproves evolution.

At least for those who believe it. - posted by Profitsbeard

The mere appearance of bin Laden is proof enough for me that man evolved from apes, and that certain talented persons like himself have the ability to devolve back to the same. ;)

Posted by: Shinoliite at February 21, 2006 1:41 AM

Shame on you Shinoliite, disparaging intelligent, innocent creatures like apes, by suggesting that OLB is becoming their equal. He falls far below their abilities, as demonstrated by this link. Of course because chimp's intelligence is more respected these days the adverts are no longer made and the concept has fallen out of favour.

http://www.whom.co.uk/squelch/40years_tv.htm

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at February 21, 2006 3:19 AM

But the Koran certainly disproves evolution.

At least for those who believe it.

Here is "the Hook" (Abu Hamza), recently jailed in Britain for calling for the the murder of infidels, preaching on evolution:

MP3 sound clip

Full article on the belated prosecution (with attached sound clips)

Posted by: Yojimbo at February 21, 2006 4:08 AM

It's good to make the point that modern science, like Western art, would not exist if Islam had not been stopped in the Early Middle Ages.

However, I must confess the art issue interests me more. There is also the point that art collections are implicitly under threat.

I think this is similar in some ways to the political problem. People across the Western world have failed to see that the state is tied up with culture and underpinned by pre-political loyalties. They default to this rather thin picture of things held by the left-liberal establishment where politics is merely about universal rights and doesn't depend on particular loyalties. Hence mass immigration of people who have a totally different way of life has not been seen to be a problem. And suddenly you have a situation where around half of a particular ethnic group within British society indicates to pollsters that it doesn't respect English law (which is an integral part of the English political settlement) and would like it done away with. No prizes for guessing which group.

And, of course, in such a situation those universal rights, which had seemed to be all that politics was about, now themselves come under threat. They violate the ideology of multiculturalism (since they are universalist) and, consequently, stand above particular moralities. Hence it become acceptable, as Robert has reported, in the state of Victoria in Australia for a Muslim to beat his wife.

Similarly, I think people's view of art is too "thin". They see art as a kind of autonomous activity and miss it's connection with other things. I think this article showing how it is bound up with common culture and with our emotional lives is a good corrective to that. All art seems originally to have been religious - and has continued to embody the inner life of Christendom even as the religion itself has faded. The philospher I linked to earlier speaks of the great modernist art as "standing sentinel at the grave of common culture". What does any of this art mean to anyone who not merely doesn't share that culture, but subscribes to one that (in its worst forms) rejects the representation of the human form? That art becomes either of no interest of value or something that is ripe for destruction.

Posted by: Yojimbo at February 21, 2006 4:51 AM

Now the editor of Jyllands-Posten, Flemming Rose, gets blamed for creating suicide-terrorists:

http://www.gulfnews.com/opinion/columns/nation/10020241.html

Posted by: odin, king of gods at February 21, 2006 5:14 AM

OT - apologies, but will interest many here I guess - here's a blog from "a Saudi man, currently living in the United Kingdom, where the Religious Police no longer trouble him for the moment."

http://muttawa.blogspot.com/2006/02/emergency-meeting.html

He notes that the Organization of the Islamic Conference is holding a conference and wonders whether they "are they finally going to resolve the Darfur conflict".

Well, no.

"Silly me," he says, "I should have realized. Cartoons are far more important than a 'few dead darkies'."

Look at the solemn in memoriam at the top of the blog. It brings home how much is at stake.

Posted by: Yojimbo at February 21, 2006 5:36 AM

If Charles Martel had lost the battle of Tours in the 8th century and Islam had conquered Europe, there is little doubt that horse and camel would be the primary means of land transportation around the world today. Oh the evils of Western civilization.

Posted by: Cornelius at February 21, 2006 7:03 AM

Actually the death of the school girls in Meccah was a huge scandal in Saudi Arabia. The minister of education was sacked and the people responsible were
punished. So far from there being no reaction there was an unproar.I remember because I lived there.

Karim Khayal

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 8:30 AM

Actually I dont get the joke of the cartoon. It is not even funny.

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 8:36 AM

Getting the joke requires having a sense of humor. That includes being able to laugh at one's self (and even one's beliefs).

A joke also requires an element of Truth. That's why we find the mohammed cartoons so amusing.

Posted by: Gary at February 21, 2006 8:38 AM

Cornelius:

Ain't it funny how the Islamists who so despise modernity are so very keen to acquire nukes -- the product of a scientific field heavily dominated by the "you-know-whos"?

Posted by: waterdragon52 at February 21, 2006 8:39 AM

Amusing? There was only one which was funny, the other were not even remotely amusing. I am not saying that because of my religion.

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 8:51 AM

I agree with Karim, the cartoons were stupid and mediocre. But that's utterly beside the point. Muslims need to accept, with maturity not with pathologically infantile madness as they do, a "Piss Mohammed" art exhibit, just as Christians have accepted with maturity a "Piss Christ" art exhibit. But Muslims won't. Not in a million years.

Muslims need to accept, with maturity not with pathologically infantile madness as they do, major popular television shows that routinely and outrageously blaspheme Mohammed, just as Christians have accepted with maturity major popular television shows (The Simpsons, South Park, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, to name just a few) that routinely and outrageously blaspheme Jesus, Moses, the Bible and God Himself. But Muslims won't. Not in a million years.

Muslims need to accept, with maturity not with pathologically infantile madness as they do, major popular cinematic movies that routinely and slyly and cleverly criticize and condemn Mohammed & Islam & Allah, just as Christians have accepted with maturity cinematic movies that routinely and slyly and cleverly criticize and condemn Jesus, Christianity and God. But Muslims won't. Not in a million years.

I could go on. And on and on and on.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at February 21, 2006 10:49 AM

sheik yer'mami posted: As for spending money to resettle them in their home-countries:

The German government tried that years ago with the Turks and spent quite a bit of money to make them go back.

I know they did, but this time after re-settlement NO WAY BACK.

Posted by: DP111 at February 21, 2006 12:31 PM

Pepper

I agree with you that Muslims need to deal with it maturly, but that doesnt mean they have to accept it.
The pathological act of vandalism are ofcourse a huge embarassment, but trust me they have much deeper psycological and political reasons then stupid silly cartoos.Dont be easily decieved. I also want to remind you of the rampage that Christians went on at
the start of "The Last Temptation of Christ" and the recent outbreak of violence against Middle Easterners
in Austalia.People are People, only their History and culture differs. The majoriy of Westerners are likely not observant Christians. Why were Muslims not offended by the depiction of Jesus Christ in Mel Gibsons film, which was hit in the Arab world? It follows the same logic and depicts a prophet, even as a god, which in Islam is a blasphemy. The cartoons
were Egypt were published month before the demonstrations and no one seemed to really bother.
Strange, huh?

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 12:33 PM

Karim, I am having a hard time finding references to that 'rampage' by Christians over the Last Temptation, care to provide some links?

Posted by: Gary at February 21, 2006 12:41 PM

Dr. Pepper;
It's funny that you should mention the cartoons and the muturity levels of Christians and Muslims. There's a cartoon printed in a Canadian collage newspaper. It has Jesus and Muhammad kissing.

The Strand, is a student newspaper of Victoria University, which is part of the University of Toronto, printed the cartoon. It shows the two kissing in the Tunnel of Tolerance, with Jesus removing Muhammad's robe.

Nick Ragaz, the Managing editor for the Strand, wrote an editorial accompanying the cartoon addressing the on going rage in the Muslim worldover the Danish cartoons.

The university stands by the cartoon despite outrage from the Muslim students. But then this same paper refused to run the 12 Danish cartoons. In an online message, Ragaz said the cartoon was intended to provoke debate, dialog and thought, and should not be understood to promote violence or hate.
Continued ragaz, We will not be pulling the issue from the stands or withdrawing the cartoon from our website.
The Muslim Students' Association opposes the cartoon, calling it "gravely offensive."
"Apart from the same sex thing, it's the encouragement of portraying the prophet in a demeaning way." said Walied Khogali, a member of the Muslim group.
According to the Toronto Star, Paul Bretscher, president of the students Administrative Council said, "The Strand has abdicated its ethical rersponsibility in purposely ridiculing both Muslims and Christians on campus."

The interesting thing to me is that the Christian point of view isn't mentioned at all. I guess that when you know the people well enough, you know who will push back, and who won't. Or who will just talk or who will blow up my collage dorm.
This article can be found at
www.worldnetdaily.com.
I just wonder if this will cause the Muslims at this university to call for jihad against the Canadians and the Canadian parliment?

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at February 21, 2006 12:42 PM

I will look it up, but I know in France a cinema was burned and a young man killed. I know that for sure.

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 12:45 PM

Ironman

This is prejiduce. Just because Muslim on Campus object to something, that doesnt mean it has anything to with Jihad. It is their own right to object to whatever they want.

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 12:48 PM

Gary, go to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ.

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 12:51 PM

I always wondered what the women's wardrobe would look like on an Arab movie set.

Black please
And one size fits all!

Remember ~ that Al Jazeera has to be based in Qatar, because it is not conservative enough to be based in Saudi Arabia. [All those out of control Arab women showing their hair – while they read the news! Oh my God - it feels like whole of society is ~ disintegrating!]

Posted by: Pass It On at February 21, 2006 2:43 PM

Pass it on has never seen a Lebanese video clip, he thinks all Arab dress in Black. What a poor sucker!

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 2:45 PM

arab women that is

Posted by: Karim83 at February 21, 2006 2:46 PM

The Muslims may become people of the world which no one wants to deal with.

You can get killed for this and who knows what next - you can't say this or that, because it’s ‘a’ religion.

Perhaps they should go and live on their own.
This might be better - that way no one has to understand their laws - the wife beating and the slayings for Islamic crimes would go unnoticed.

I really do wish them all the best.

[You wonder why so many people turned up for the untying of their boat and the push off, to get them all-a-sailing.]

Posted by: Pass It On at February 21, 2006 3:15 PM

Hey Karim,
I'm not prejudging anybody. The proof is in the pudding and plastered all over the "WORLD NEWS!!!"
Muslims have the right to object to whatever they want, IN THEIR COUNTRY, not in a host country. When you are a guest in a foreign country, you are subject to see things that may not be normal in your country but standard procedure in another. In the West, there is "freedom of speech," something that Muslims, around the Middle East, have expressed is western terrorism and is not wanted in the Middle East. But yet here you Muslims are using the very thing that you MUSLIMS say is western terrorism on this website on the internet!!! FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION!!! It's funny that you would say that I'm prejudice. Being a blackman, I find that hilarious. Most people when they hear certain words go sensitive such as prejudice. Here is Merriam Webster's definition of prejudice;

'Pre-ju-dice \`pre- je- das\
1.: injury or damage resulting from some judgement or action of another in disregard of one's rights: esp: detrement to one's legal rights or claims.
2. a. preconceived judgement or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
b. : an instance of such judgement or opinion
c: an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics.

Now, I haven't prejudged Muslims according to this definition. My opinion is not without grounds. When the cartoons from Denmark came out around the world, Muslims went crazy! Muslims burned. Muslims pillaged. Muslims raped. Muslims murdered. This is all recorded in the news and on the internet, in print and on photographs. Now if anything, this definately describes Muslims.
Read the closing definition of prejudice. This perfectly describes the opinions of the 9/11 hyjackers/terrorists. You Muslims call westerners "infidel dogs, pigs, and monkeys without actually getting to know us. You call jihads against westerners all because we don't subscribe to your Islamic point of view.
Now, I wasn't being hostile in my post against Muslims, I was just stating a concern based on the actions of other Muslims around the world over a bunch of cartoons. The cartoon in the Strand is more of a swipe at Christians than Muslims. You can see Jesus' face. But Muhammad's back is turned to the viewer. You wouldn't even know it was Muhammad unless you read the captions.
But yet it was the Muslims students that took offense. The Danish cartoons are mild compared to the cartoons that are printed in the Muslims papers about Jews and Christians. But yet, Jews and Christians aren't rioting in the streets anywhere in the world. Christians and Jews aren't killing Muslims. It's Muslims killing Christians and Jews. It's Muslims burned down churches and synogues. Point to one mosque that's been burnt by either Jews or Christians around the globe. Name one country where either a Jew or a Christian blew up a bus full of passengers, or a train system. Name the incident where either a Jew or a Christian flew a plane into a skyscraper anywhere in the world.
So when you call someone a name, make sure that you know the meaning of the word.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at February 22, 2006 12:12 PM