Jihad Watch: Bush hopes for 'moderate' Hamas

February 26, 2006

Bush hopes for 'moderate' Hamas

As for me, I'm hoping that strawberries will sprout through the snow on the pine tree out back. From The Australian, with thanks to JE:

US President George W. Bush suggested overnight that being in government might have "a moderating influence" on the radical group Hamas in the wake of its victory in Palestinian legislative elections.
"As democracy takes root, the responsibilities of governing will have a moderating influence on those who assume power in free elections. It's easier to be a martyr than a mayor or a cabinet minister," he said.

Since the President is so fond of postwar Germany as an historical model for present-day Iraq, perhaps he will pause to consider a point from German history of a few years earlier: the responsibilities of governing didn't have the slightest moderating influence on the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Posted by Robert at February 26, 2006 8:25 AM
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l certainly do not agree with Bush on this one! Keep his feet to the fire and keep reminding him a terrorist is a terrorist... if AlQuaeda had a polictical wing, he would not recognize them in the least!

Posted by: Lulu

at February 26, 2006 8:47 AM

Taken from LGF (with thanks to ploome hineni)

substitute "Non-Believer" for "Jew"

Note: This piece represents the perspective of a Muslim scholar on the peace treaty and is presented here since their perspective is often ignored in the media and is important for the Muslims.

And now comes the most important question, that is: What is the duty today on the Muslim as regards these treaties?

The answer:

(1) The first duty is to firmly believe in their invalidity and that because they contain invalid conditions they were born dead the very day they were given birth to; because it is not lawful for the Muslim to conclude an agreement with the unbeliever for abandoning jihad and abrogating this religious duty, nor for giving up hostility towards the Jews and affirming love and amity for them; for this is leaving the millah. These treaties also contain provisions making it incumbent to screen out such Ayahs of the Quran and ahadith (statements) of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, that declare this enmity towards the Jews.

This undertaking constitutes a collusion with the unbelievers for concealing the Deen and knowledge and for suspending the Ayahs of the noble Quran and ahadith of the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, that explain the essence of obligatory relationship with the Jews; and this in fact is driving the Muslims out of Islam and stripping the Ummah of its belief and history.

And since these treaties contain such conditions and stipulate them clearly, they are therefore invalid and it is not lawful for the Muslim to believe in them.

(2) The second duty of the Muslim is to believe that these treaties do not bind him and that it is not lawful for him to give effect to any of their contents except under compulsion and necessity to the extent compulsion is a valid ground for compliance.

This is so because they contain the above noted invalid conditions and because they have been concluded without the consent and consultation of the men of religion, learning and judgement and because they will spoil the Deen of his sons and progeny, besides spoiling his worldly interests.

(3) The third duty is to work towards overthrowing these treaties. Their position is like the position of every abomination that may be found in the land of Islam and that which it is a duty to abhor and reject according to the conditions and requirements of rejecting as far as practicable, and to see that there does to accrue to it a worse abomination and that an abomination is not met by another abomination.

(4) The fourth duty is to believe that the Jews, as long as they adhere to their false religion, waging war against Islam and its followers, they are members of a community on whom Allah 's wrath has fallen. It is a duty to fight and confront them as long as they remain on their course of action in fighting Islam, disbelieve in it and commit aggression upon the Muslims.

To detest them is the Deen to be followed for Allah's sake by a Muslim.

Perhaps Bush should care to read the full piece on http://web.archive.org/web/20011113234006/www.islaam.com/articles/treaty.htm before opening his mouth. Then he will realise he is hoping against hope.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683

at February 26, 2006 8:48 AM

Someone ought to tell bush that when confronted by a rabid dog you don't throw it a bone you shoot it in the head.

My question is "Whose side is that idiot on anyway?"

Posted by: fireangel

at February 26, 2006 9:23 AM

Making common cause with dimwits may not be the best way to proceed.

Posted by: 00Buck

at February 26, 2006 9:30 AM

It's easier to be a martyr than a mayor or a cabinet minister

Typically, especially when motivated by religious zeal, people choose the path of least resistance, in this case, violent least resistance. GWB, Rice, and Hughes seem to be smoking from the same Esposito hookah. Posted by: Beagle

at February 26, 2006 10:18 AM

Pigs fly, dont they?

Posted by: stranger

at February 26, 2006 10:32 AM

A "Moderate" Hamas member is like a "Moderate" Nazi, it doesn't exist.

Posted by: MississippiMud

at February 26, 2006 10:36 AM

"Moderate Terror", is there such a thing?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami

at February 26, 2006 10:41 AM

Dear Mr.President:

Please take about 15 minutes and read this,it is the guiding light of Hamas and as they proclaim; it is locked in stone.

http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/isreport/hamas.html

Posted by: Mackie

at February 26, 2006 10:52 AM

well Bush was right on the money for Arafat! look what ol clinton had with Arafat and cant foget Jimmie boy Carter!! so guess who is dumber than Bush on this one!

Posted by: Lulu

at February 26, 2006 10:53 AM

Now begins the new onslaught of coded 'peace' messages from the Hamas leadership. Years of Arafat have perfected the game. Talk 'peace' in some shape or form while working up your people to such a frenzy of bloodlust that by the time Arafat unleashed Intifada II, the Palestinians were EATING people and drinking blood.

Will they really play this monte game again? Will the West eat yet another steaming platter of this fresh camel shit? Oh, probably.

Posted by: poetcomic1

at February 26, 2006 10:58 AM

Folks, Bush really does *get it* but he can't *show* that he gets it because that would be offensive to the people who know that he *gets it* but can't let on that they know that he knows that he *gets it*. Get it?

Posted by: kamala

at February 26, 2006 11:00 AM

This business of how the responsibilities of rule will likely lead to a "moderation" of views can only be uttered by someone ignorant of history, and ignorant of a Total System. Sane people, Western man for example, even Western Political Man, is used to the give-and-take of compromise. One says "No New Taxes" and we read his lips, but new taxes is what we get. Another says "we will transform Social Security" but fortunately, given that particular person's ideas, it does not happen. Horse-trading goes on. Those who are American, in particular, are used to the various limits on power -- the system of federalism that divides power among sovereignties (so that one school district may aside Great Expectations and the next one, Garfield the Cat), and the famous checks and balances that every schoolboy learns about. And compared to European societies, the role of ideological clash is limited -- both parties accept, a bit too readily, the Gospel of Economic Growth in a way that would do the author of "Acres of Diamonds" proud.

With this kind of background, how could Bush conceivably understand fanaticism, or not fanaticism, merely a belief-system that is both a Complete Regulation of Life and a Total Explanlation of the Universe? How could he understand, given his limited understanding and experience that the word "religion" -- which evokes such automatic respect in so many -- does not fit the case of Islam, which is a religio-politico-geopolitical system for organizing Muslim societies within whatever borders (so-called "nation-states" that mean so little to the Believer, for whom the universal community of the Umma means, or ideally means, everything).

How could he, Bush, or Rice, or all the others not fall for the belief, now embraced by the so-called Muslim "reformers" who are now pushing the same line -- that at least Hamas is not corrupt, so give in a chance, at least the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is not corrupt, so --Saad Eddin Ibrahim tells us (see David Brooks's little column today, not for his confused interpretation of facts, but for a few of those facts). Why, of course the "reformers" never did mind Islam as much as they should. And of course, just like all those nice Iraqi exiles who assured us that we would be greeted as liberators and there would be no problem, so that Bernard Lewis, who relies for all those nice, Westernized, attractive Muslim informants, who are either his hosts in Amman, or his source of insight and inside dope, which he believes himself privy to (and convinces others), could confidently predict in print (in 2002) that if the Americans were to liberate Baghdad, the joy that would be expressed would make the celebrations that had taken place previously in Kabul "look like a funeral procession."

So now Bush is gradually sliding into the line that they will all be so busy jockeying for positions, and divvying up the non-civil service positions (aren't all countries sort of, kind of, the same?), dog pound manager, board of aldermen, court officers, elevator inspectors, the whole Mayor-Daley or Tammany Hall works -- because in the end, according to the sentimental and the terminally simple, basically People Are the Same the Whole World Over.

No, they aren't. What goes into their brains, what they learn from birth, what imbues every conversation, what is the source of inspiration, the supplier of all historical and literary and personal allusion, what offers the model of the Perfect Man, what ties people down to a past, both real and mythical, so that what happened in 622 or 628 or 632 or 661 A.D. may be more important than what happens today -- imagine if Western leaders and peoples kept referring to what happened in England in 632, or in France, or Italy, or the United States, and that this haunted them, this divided them, this was realer than real to them?

There is a failure of intellect. There is a failure of effort. There is a failure of imagination.

In the article above the whole business of these Hamases and Muslim Brotherhoods coming to power, and then being "modified" by the new tasks, shows the usual ignorance of history. When the Ayatollah Khomeini came to power in 1979, he had time to set in motion the killing -- first of members of the ancien regime, and the heads of the Jewish and Baha'i communities, and then to continue, with Judge Khalkhali distinguishing himself. He had time to pass laws -- the very first law was that reducing the marrriageable age of girls to nine years old (!uery to Bush and Rice and David Brooks and Tom Friedman and every commentator in America: Why nine years? why not eleven, or thirteen?). And for 27 years, despite having to fight off the aggression of Saddam Hussein in an eight-year-long war, and despite the killing within the country (that aged couple, for example, of celebrated intellectuals, who were decapitated and their heads carefully placed at opposite ends of their mantelpiece, a little touch for friends and family of the murdered), and the murders of enemies in Paris and elsewhere, there is no sign that the regime is weakening. Ahmadinejad won overwhelmingly. And though to listen to some (e.g. Michael Ledeen) one would think that the regime is about to topple any minute, it's nonesense. It is the corruption of the Muslim clerics that has aroused opposition, but not, among the Iranian masses, the Islamic basis of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Indeed, Ahmadinejad was the successful mayor -- a can-do mayor, a Giuliani-Stratton kind of mayor -- of Teheran, which is why he was elected. Not appointed -- elected.

There are so many examples of a totalitarian regime that comes to power and, if it is not sufficiently opposed, within and without, proceeds by degrees to do exactly what its leaders say. Hitler did carry out what he set down in "Mein Kampf." The surprise was that it was a surprise. Mussolini, after the March on Rome, after coming to power, did not disband the Fascists, did not cease to kill opponents (Matteotti, the fratelli Rosselli), or force them into exile (the young Pertini, in southern France). He had time to drain the Pontine marshes, time to improve agriculture, time to invade Ethiopia, and still had time for Fascism, Fascism, Fascism, and still had time for the leggi razziale, and still had time to meet with Hitler at the Villa Madama, and still had time to enter World War II.

And the Japanese Kodo-regime, did the same.

And even in the New World, we have examples that perhaps Bush can understand.

There is Fidel Castro. Oh, he spoke at the Harvard Law School Forum (outdoors, in back of the Colisseum) in 1959. Funny, a crowd-pleaser. But what happened? For 37 years he has ruled Cuba, and made it -- not nearly as severe as the Soviet model because he lacked the resources -- but still, is has been for many a close-to-unendurable 37 years. And then there is Chavez, the dictator in the making, proppped up by his oil wealth, as Castro was propped up by Soviet aid. Would Bush, for whom the examples of the Nazis and the Fascists and Iran may just be a little too distant, possibly grasp that the same argument is used about every totalitarian regime in the making, at the early stages?

And could the Infidels begin to grasp that "reform" will always, in a Muslim country, assume a Muslim form, require a "return to Islam" or "more Islam" and that, whatever this means for the local Muslims -- it may indeed mean, for a while, less corruption -- for Infidels it means something quite different.

We are not, we Infidels, here to make the world wonderful for Muslims --by their own lights, and their own views, so deeply inculcated that only a remarkable few seem able to fully escape the influence of Islam, and even to declare their apostasy. We are here to protect ourselves from the Jihad that is not tangential but central to Islam. We are here, therefore, to weaken the presence of Islam in our own countries, to weaken Islam's hold on those whom it now possesses, and by engaging in acts of mass pedagogy so that the still largely uninformed Infidels, wherever they may live, will grasp the significance of what is contained in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and will find out what Muslim conquest of non-Muslim lands always meant for the conquered non-Muslims.

If our current leaders are not up to this, they must be pushed aside. Someone has been consistently misinforming Bush about Islam -- for example, that someone who gave him Sura 5.32 to read, but failed to inform him about Sura 5.33. Or was Bush himself attempting to mislead the American public, by such selective and misleading quotation? One would like to know who is learning what, and who is teaching what, about Islam, at the highest levels of government?

Or is no one learning anything? Is it all on a wing and a prayer?

Posted by: Hugh

at February 26, 2006 11:09 AM

The following was sent to the Jewish lay-leader at Robins Air Force Base, Georgia for the consideration of the Jewish military community there. It is self-explanatory.

“Congress has responded to the Hamas victory with a threat to cut off all U.S. aid to the PA. A bill formulated in the House, led by Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Florida Republican and chair of the House subcommittee on the Middle East and Central Asia, would place the PA on the State Department’s list of terrorist sponsors.

But the administration plans to oppose the bill. Officials said President Bush has quietly decided to continue aid to the PA to prevent an Arab backlash as well as Iranian efforts to take over the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

"The president will tell Congress that helping the PA is an integral part of the U.S. withdrawal strategy from Iraq," an official said.” – News World Communications, Insight on the News, 6 Feb ‘06

If the Administration does continue to fund the PA (Hamas) by either the front door or (surreptitiously) through the back, can a Jewish service member continue to serve in the Armed Forces of the United States?

Recall that Hamas has institutionalized three unalterable precepts within its Constitution (now the de facto constitution of the PA):
___the destruction of the state of Israel
___the conversion, enslavement or extermination of the Jewish people, worldwide
___the destruction of our Torah

Moreover, if the Administration’s alleged concern about continued Iranian militancy in the West Bank and Gaza is sincere, is not the purported action of Iran another act of war, much like its attack on our embassy and the hostage taking of our diplomats in 1979 or the murder of 241 service members in Beirut in 1983? Iran and Hamas are staunch allies. Therefore, rather than seeking funding for Hamas from Congress, should not the Administration seek of Congress a Declaration of War?

With respect, if Administration spokesmen do come to claim that Hamas was brought to power because of its obvious social outreach and that said outreach is sufficient justification for continued financial support of the PA, would this not be as disingenuous, irrelevant and immoral as arguing for the support of Adolph XXXXXX and the Nazi regime because they put millions of restive, bellicose, genocidal, unemployed Germans back to work? Indeed, they did, among other things building concentration camps and factories for the murder and wartime enslavement of European Jewry; not to mention, of course, the deaths of 40 – 60 million other souls, including nearly a quarter-million American service personnel.

Additionally, the Administration supports democracy in the Middle East, i.e. (by definition) “rule by the people.” Well, the folk of the PA have spoken, among other things, electing a member to parliament with the nom de guerre “Hitler” (the highest vote getter besides the Hamas elite). The election was no squeaker; Hamas won handily and garnered so many seats that it may rule arbitrarily, needing no coalition partner. So, the people of the PA are the government and the government (Hamas) is the people - following the sacrosanct tenet of Lincoln, “Government of the people, by the people, for the people.” This outcome should come as no surprise, given that every poll done for years has shown that the citizens of the PA overwhelming support Hamas’ three genocidal precepts above.

If a Jew continues to serve in the military under such a circumstance, is this not the same thing as countenancing, supporting and protecting Hamas? (A certified terrorist mafia) Would this be not suicidal, patricidal and an act of the utmost apostasy? In the event, would not the United States, through the action of the Administration, have abandoned to their mortal fate its Jewish service members (and all Jewish Americans for that matter) to perverse, cynical and homicidal expediency?

If my government does in fact give aid and comfort to a regime (Hamas), whose sole purpose for existence is the annihilation of me, my family, my people, my religion and my safe haven, have not, in fact, the terrorists won? And, what, then, exactly is the Global War on Terrorism?

Finally, to honorable men everywhere, for myself only, I may have to say, “J’accuse!” and I will say, “Never again!”

Just asking, respectfully.

Long live the United States! Long live Israel! Long live our Torah!

Posted by: allen

at February 26, 2006 11:53 AM

When questioned by foreign journalists about anti-Jewish street violence by SA thugs following Hitler's victory in 1933, Joseph Goebbels commented: "One has to be aware of the hatred that has existed for fifteen years in this country...one may say with all confidence that the spate of anti-Jewish violence in this country is now over."

I am happy that our president is confident that Hamas will now be responsible.

DesertDawgN29Palms

Posted by: DesertDawgN29

at February 26, 2006 11:55 AM

"Bush hopes for 'moderate' Hamas"
And people in Hell hope for ice water.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069

at February 26, 2006 12:37 PM

This is a signal that we don't want to fight between the Jordan and Med--for now.

Let's see if Hamas can collect the trash more honestly than Fatah is. And let's see as well if the realities with which it must live don't force it into a few more acrimonious schisms.

Posted by: Kepha

at February 26, 2006 1:33 PM

Unfortunately, both America and Israel lost the moral high ground and the virtue of a consistent policy when they abandoned their principles and negotiated with Arafat and the PLO. There was a time when Israel said it would never negotiate with terrorists like those.

Now Europe and the Islamic world can figure that since the U.S. and Israel eventually softened their stance and negotiated with Arafat, if they are patient then eventually the U.S. and Israel will soften again and negotiate with Hamas too. And they may be right; what fine line can America and Israel draw that would justify negotiating with Arafat but not with Hamas?

The only way out of this trap, is for both Israel and America to elect leaders who will admit publicly that negotiating with Arafat was a mistake, one that should not be repeated with any other terrorists who manage to get into positions of political power.

Posted by: Steven L.

at February 26, 2006 2:07 PM

Lulu, this is 2006, not 1996 Bush is President, not Clinton or Carter. Who cares if Clinton or Carter were dunces, deceitful, fools or opportuntists (I vote all of the above), problem is that Carter and Clinton have no effect on National Policy, nor did they push for the Dubair Port Deal (and they certainly don't have veto power).

Kamala wishful thinking that Bush gets it, but also irrelevant, who cares what he (or his brains) get, I don't care why you are doing what you are going, or what you believe, I only care that you are doing it.

Bush may in fact know that Islam is a deadly virus, but it is his actions that matter. Like smoking cigarettes and drinking booze, when you know that one causes lung cancer and the other cirrhosis of the liver. Or sliding up the table at a casino, when you know the odds are stacked against you, and gambling away your car and home.

Posted by: Nariz

at February 26, 2006 2:08 PM

Nariz I was joking

Posted by: kamala

at February 26, 2006 2:42 PM

Hugh above,

"There is a failure of intellect. There is a failure of effort. There is a failure of imagination."

Amd these failures continue to cost American lives, now in the thousands, and dollars, now in the hundreds of billions. Bush and his entire administration are losing the so-called 'war on terror', i.e. defensive war against global jihad, because they do not understand what they are doing.

The short term consequences are already bad enough, but the long term consequences, e.g. support of Turkish entry into the EU, not taking a strong stand on the Islamization of Europe, have yet to be paid.

Posted by: JTF

at February 26, 2006 2:52 PM

I think Bush's own religiosity is hurting the war on terror, and the more importantly the struggle to secularize Islam. He thinks that all religions are good, that everyone worhsips the same god, that this god is merciful, etc. I have noticed this strain of thought not only among Bush, but also Pat Buchanan, and on a more personal level, the guarded admiration that many Christian fundamentalists express for the ability of Islam to force its mores upon its population. They view Islam as a false religion, but one whose social model is worth emulating, because it has proven much more effective in trapping its people in ancient Middle Eastern social practices.

The ultimate failure of the Christian right is that it is Christian, and therefore a fellow-traveler to Islam. Only a secular can truly prosecute the war on terror, because only a secular fully realizes what freedom means.

Go Giuliani! (but tone down the biblical jazz!)

Posted by: alaric7

at February 26, 2006 4:07 PM

Bush simply cannot be that stupid...so that leaves us with the other option, he is not what he says he is.

Posted by: Carolyn2

at February 26, 2006 4:10 PM

I wash my hands of the man.

What part of his own oft repeated sentiment that "the U.S. does not deal or negotiate with terrorists and terrorist organizations" does he suddenly not understand?

Posted by: toleranceorappeasement?

at February 26, 2006 4:29 PM

Bush is a lame-duck president now. He's thinking ahead to his legacy, what's left of it, and simply wants things to go smooth for the next two-and-a-half years. Iraqi civil war, Hamas, Turkey's EU bid, "The war or terror," UAE takes USA all percolate out of the Colgate container, and "The cowboy" scampers about, trying to get that toothpaste back into the tube thinking, 'They didn't teach me this stuff in MBA school.'

He'll be out soon and the best thing for the GOP is to move on. Forget him. Road kill. You're doing a heck of a job W. By the way what's the big difference b/w W and Brownie anyway? One's a boob; the other's misunderestimated. Good people. Like death or heroin addiction, it's not easy to turn on the President if you're conservative. But like the stages of Kubler-Ross's, you pass through various stages of grief. Boobs one; boobs all.

The 'foreigners' . . . Muslims, Israelis, euros ect . . . read the polls too. W's becoming irrelevent. The UAE deal is just the final straw, the icing on the dunce's cake. What you will see in the next few years is a steady progression of Republicans and conservatives away from Bush, in the exact same way as his fellow democrats abandoned Jimmy in '78-79.

Posted by: biorabbi

at February 26, 2006 7:08 PM

While on the topic of idiots, whose the idiot promoting Condi? What qualification does she have as a Republican? In what possible way is she conservative? Like her boss, the respect is fading for her as she trots in her designer shoes to Egypt, telling Mubarak to hold elections as if democracy is the answer. Funny thing; Bush and company still rationalize the democracy arguement, no matter who wins the election, Hamas, thugs. This is just 'nascent democracy.' Right? What a load of bs. For me, Bush's utter failure to verbalize more than a chimp's grunt of support for the Danes in the cartoon blowup was a defining moment illustrating character, or the lack of it.

Posted by: biorabbi

at February 26, 2006 7:13 PM

biorabbi posted: Bush is a lame-duck president now. He's thinking ahead to his legacy, what's left of it, and simply wants things to go smooth for the next two-and-a-half years.

Too damned true. All this mantra by our politicians, GWB in particular, that islam is a RoP has two possible reasons

1.They wish to keep things quiet and not allow large scale civil disturbance from the native population. Understandable.

2. They wish to hide the fact of their enormous policy blunder and thus bring their legacy into qusetion.
This must be obvious now to the even meanest mind. The rub is that if they admitted that islam is not a RoP, then they would all be guilty of putting the West and civilisation in jeopardy.

What the political elite have bequeathed future generations is continuous conflict and even civil wars and partitions of nations. They hope however that it wont happen in their lifetime, or not while they are in power, and they wont get the blame or their political legacy trashed while they are still alive.

As evidence, witness the witless Carter desparately trying to defend the Palestinian cause - the ones he resurrected in the Camp David accords. Ofcourse the Israelis had more then a hand in that act of gross stupidity. Then they followed it up with "Oslo" in tandem with Clinton. Again we see Clinton doing virtually the same thing as Carter - both trying to defend their political "legacy" as it slowly and inevitably unravels before all. A similar thing is happening now with politicians trying to defend the indefensible - the cover up of bad, nay fatal policy error of allowing muslims to settle in the West. They do this by

1. Islam is RoP
2. Tiny handful etc
3. Vast majority are moderate muslims etc

But reality keeps mugging us quite literally as we pay the price in bus, train and tube bombs.

Posted by: DP111

at February 26, 2006 7:49 PM

How is it that the fallacy of "democratic elections" wasn't recognized by our State Department from the Algierian disaster. What were the post 9/11 governmental planners thinking? Not much useful, it appears. So we plod into the same "One man, one vote, one time" tarpit in Afghanistan, Iraq and now "Palestine".

Theocratically-indoctrinated majorities will elect, oh-so-"democratically": theocracies.

Thus ends the meaning of a free democracy, freedom of thought and all the rest that makes human life worthwhile.

One has to build the fundamental Constitutional and Bill of Rights bases, in written law, before you open the doors to the prisoners' cages. Otherwise they just vote themselves back into prison. Knowing nothing else.

Shariah is the perfect concentration camp. In every sense of the word concentration.

Why we allowed the conquered countries to vote in anything but our own successful form of secular government is the lunacy of this entire "depose the dictators and free the oppressed" enterprise.

The Achilles heel:

We left in place the Real Dictator: Shariah Law.

Insanity, thy name is naivete.

A burning Bush of simplistic platitudes pretending to be a realistic policy.

It's the Koran, stupid!

Posted by: profitsbeard

at February 26, 2006 8:03 PM

profitsbeard posted: One has to build the fundamental Constitutional and Bill of Rights bases, in written law, before you open the doors to the prisoners' cages. Otherwise they just vote themselves back into prison. Knowing nothing else.

Build is right. Before even a Constitution and Bill of Rights is drafted, there has to be a social consensus of mutual tolerance already prevailing in society. If not, then even a Constitution and Bill of Rights will simply be trashed by the superposition of sharia by the majority.

Germany and Japan ofcourse had their way of life totally changed, but that was only because they were smashed to pieces in the War, and it was blindingly shown to them that their way had failed. Not so in Iraq or in Afghanistan. A PC war left the population convinced that and their way of ordering society, had not been defeated.

Posted by: DP111

at February 26, 2006 8:17 PM

Bush, circa 2001: You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists.

Bush, circa 2006: When is a terrorist not a terrorist? Well, the following mitigating factors will be taken into account when determining whether a group falls under the legal designation of a so-called terrorist organization: election by a plurality in a democracy; claims to renounce violence; incidents of unprovoked incitement by extremist cartoonists; connections to royal families of nations with large undeveloped petroleum reserves;....

Posted by: special_guest

at February 26, 2006 9:23 PM

Brilliant!

Posted by: Alert

at February 26, 2006 11:18 PM

If our current leaders are not up to this, they must be pushed aside. - Hugh

Sooner or later, in my opinion, sooner rather than later, the leaders parroting Islamic propaganda are playing with American lives. Infact, I can see the same leaders stabbing Israel in the back, but closer home, all three countries that propped Taleban, which housed Osama after 9/11.. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and UAE are in the Administration's good books. "Isn't this the opposite of what the administration was supose to do?" 8 Americans out of 10 will answer the question in affermative. Gradually, 9 and finally, all ten will have no oprion to answer in affermative. But by then, it may be too late. To late even to boot out these spineless leaders. Americans are playing with fire by placing their faith on these spineless appeasers. It is a matter of life and death, for hard-working, tax-paying and patriotic Americans. Don't believe me? ask Americans in the border states...... and the illegal Mexican problem, daunting and dangerous as it is, pales in front of the Islamic problem.

Posted by: Alert

at February 26, 2006 11:45 PM

I'm sick to death of every idiot mumbling that maybe Hamas will become moderate now that they're in office.

Including our President.

I want to win the lottery. I want California to become a conservative state. I want to see shit turned into gold bullion. It's not going to happen, people!

This deep introspective contemplation is just a way of preparing us for what's next. You know, "We've got to continue the "humanitarian aid" to the Palestinian people" We can't prolong their suffering...

Huh? What about the billions of aid they've received so far? All the dough that the US, EU, UN and every Muslim charity and aid group around the world has been sending -- FOR YEARS!? And they're still living in garbage strewn "refugee camps" While their rifle toting leaders dash around town to important meetings in Mercedes. Of course the camps now have satellite dishes on the rooftops that beam neat programs into their livingrooms that teach their slack jawed children how to become heros by killing Jews.

In 1948 more than 700,000 Jews were forced to flee their homes in Arab countries -- countries they lived in for centuries. They left their homes, businesses, everything! They went to Israel and lived in tent cities and shacks for years. But unlike the Palestinians, the Jews were helped by their brother. Not kept in festering hatred like the Palestinians are by the Arabs in neighboring countries.

Instead of sending them money we should BILL the s.o.b's. And they should hand over the vermin who blew up our diplomatic convoy when we were over in Gaza looking for a candidate for a Fullbright Scholarship.

Not a dime more. Let Iran and the other scabs take care of them.

Posted by: Kemaste

at February 26, 2006 11:55 PM

"moderate Hamas"... I just love dark comedy!

Posted by: Abscedere

at February 27, 2006 12:14 AM

Wayne Campbell put it best:

"Yeah, and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt!"

Hamas peacefully co-existing with Isreal is about as likely as peacefully co-existing with a school of great white sharks while wearing a pork chop wet-suit.

Posted by: give me doughnuts

at February 27, 2006 1:58 AM

Bush is a clueless fool, surrounded by self serving sneaky effers like Rove and Cheney. I believe that Bush is basically honest and believes that rubbish, even factoring diplomatic niceties(lies) into account.

Posted by: Dumbo

at February 27, 2006 2:02 AM

MississippiMud

A "Moderate" Hamas member is like a "Moderate" Nazi, it doesn't exist.

I beg to differ re "moderate Nazis".

Posted by: zhu97

at February 27, 2006 3:42 AM

While on the topic of idiots, whose the idiot promoting Condi? What qualification does she have as a Republican? In what possible way is she conservative? - biorabbi

Dick Morris. The qualification he cites is the vote splitting off Hilary - Condi would (theoritically) draw half the black vote, split the womens vote, while hopefully retaining the traditional conservative votes.

However, given her inane stands on Hamas, EU & Turkey, et al, I wouldn't support her at least in the primaries. If it came to Condi vs Hilary (the title of Morris' book), I don't know who is worse.

However, the democracy is the answer may not be all that bad, although we should do what's possible to protect the infidels, such as the Assyrians in Iraq/Syria, Maronites in Lebanon, Copts in Egypt, etc. Then let democracy happen, and let Tariq Ramadan's comrades come to power in Cairo & Syria, Sistani in Iraq, Osama's comrades in Riyadh, et al. Once enough of these countries follow the lead of the Palestinians and elect terrorism, it should hopefully bust the insistance of Bush/Condi that Islam is not the problem. Yeah, they can turn a blind eye to Hamas, where anti-US is not the central element of their platform, but let the Muslim Brotherhood come to power in Cairo, Dimashq and Riyadh and start taking orders from Osama and Zawahiri, and then let's see them defend the Arab street.

Posted by: Infidel Pride

at February 27, 2006 4:23 AM

When faced with no leaders, the population can sway key issues. Witness the Dubai--UAE fiasco. This is a hot button(red meat)kind of issue. While Lowry and the rest of his cohorts at National Review(minus the sane Mr. Levin) rage on about arab discrimination vis-a-vis the Port issue(perfectly parroting the White House talking points), the people are mad as hell--the Republicans are following their voter's wishes and do not wish to join W with the political Hemlock routine. Another issue exists for Democratic Governors in border states like Arizona or New Mexico. They are outflanking their GOP opponents on being tough on the border issue. Why? A massive groundswell of opposition to our open border policy. I would have thought that W would have been able to stabilize his poll rating around 40 percent, but I think that's hopeful as the months go on. He's losing me. He's losing other conservatives. He's losing his base. Unless he changes his position on Iraq, coddling terror supporting nations et al, he's toast, but, on the other hand, he never has to run for office again. Why should he care? The congressional Republicans do care and will increasingly assert themselves in foreign policy, Iraqi opposition ect.

Posted by: biorabbi

at February 27, 2006 7:27 AM

And I'm willing to bet Bush is currently hoping that the cows will come home as well....

My guess is that the cows will come home before Hamas "moderates" itself and its tactics.

Posted by: pythagoras

at February 27, 2006 1:21 PM

I voted for the idiot twice!

Second time in one week I had to say that. It's getting to be a bad habit. I spent a lot of time and energy counter-protesting at the anti-war rallies and this mush-brain GWOT cluster-screw is what I get.

I guess it's time to just sit back and wait for the
inevitable bacpack nuke to go off somewhere in the U.S.

My chances of dying from it are probably less then 1/500 since I don't live in a top 10 city and especially New York or DC. Got no close family there either so hey WTF if that's how the leaders want to handle our war plan then it's their call.

Maybe GWB or Hillary will understand when they are standing at the edge of the glowing ruins.

Posted by: savetheus

at February 28, 2006 8:10 AM

Posted by: firebunny

at February 28, 2006 10:43 AM

Despite Bush's hopes for a moderate Hamas, the state dept has gone ahead and issued a new travel warning yesterday and ordered all US govt personnel out of the area unless they are specifically authorized.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_922.html

Posted by: BigDaddy

at February 28, 2006 12:59 PM

Hey !!!! How many times does Bush have to call our G-d Allah, How many Mosques does he have to build, bow in, pray in the white house to Allah, kicking our G-d out. How many times does he have to give them aid, nation build, pay into the UN, and his your either with ut or against us? He means infidel's against Islam,,After all, when there is a Big LIE, its either to believe, huh !! Here he is , letting Saudi build mosques all over the US, put their books in our schools, have professors in the colleges who side with Islam. Spy on us, trash our constitution, leave open borders, and now 7000 muslim coming to receive all free everything here, and 25,000 more coming just from Saudi Arabia, while Katrina hurts, and citizens hurt. Open borders, selling the ports as Clinton did, have let them buy hi tect and manufactoring. out sourced too many million jobs, letting big corporations have Low wage for the ilegals , jobs Americans used to do at a good wage, and even our teens cannot find work but its easy to find pure meth, and herion 4 on the streets. He has cut off aid to HUD and sEC 8 for citizens while every one of the 25,000,000 ilegals get it all free, while even our vets are homeless and fighting for medical. When are you all going to see the picture of the Bush plan and his one world order. next LOST as to who controls the seas is going.......Here thousand os Americans need jobs and could do port work, but no, only enemy countries get them. Even our IRS is donw in India, now the banks merging, and other countries do your acconts as ID theft moves forward. Home invasions, murder, drugs, corruption in gov and busienss. Now the land take away which is against our constitution, which Bush calls a Fvvvvvv piece of paper.If you do not see him walking into the enemy trap, put in by all Persia , Asia, and all muslims then your blind. Look at the fruits, the spy thing is to see what we are up to, and then stop his plan to have control over us all. Are we going to get hit. Yes, and it will be another inside job. bet??

Posted by: kim segar

at March 5, 2006 1:55 PM