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I just received this beautiful letter from a Jihad Watch reader, who has kindly allowed me to post it. Be sure not to miss the exchange between the teacher and student:
Good evening, Mr. Spencer.I wanted to share a personal note with you and Hugh and Rebecca. I only know how to get in touch with you, however, so please feel free to pass it along if you feel it appropriate.
I have been quietly watching Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch since a new friend introduced me to it several months ago. Only very rarely do I muster up the nerve to comment, as I feel that many of the participants are far more knowledgeable than I (and I’m fearful of looking ignorant or ridiculous – or perhaps both!). I’ve been studying Islam and the Middle East since shortly after the events of 9-11. I’m a paramedic and I knew many of the firefighters killed in the World Trade Center attacks. Once a few weeks went by, I felt an overwhelming need to understand why the whole thing happened. Sadly, like most Americans, I was ignorant about anything that had to do with Islam, terrorism, or the Middle East. I turned to the mainstream media and knew almost instantly that no real answers would be found from within the walls of the “newsrooms.” And so, my quiet, independent studies began.
At the time, my son was nine years old, and after much deliberation on my part, I decided to include him in my studies. The more I learned about Islam and the more I learned about the effects – both real and potential – that it was having on our society and on societies across the globe, the more I was determined to educate my son on the subject the same way I choose to help educate him with math, science, and other necessities of the world. Together, we have read nearly all of your books and many, many works that you have recommended (we’re currently working our way through all of the books we’re not supposed to read that were mentioned in PIG). We have recently finished reading the Qur’an for the third time – it’s difficult to comprehend it all the first time, and it’s still hard to believe that it says what it says the second time, so we found we needed three times to full grasp the content.
My son is now thirteen. He attends a private school, and he came home nearly in tears three weeks ago. While in his history class, his teacher was speaking about the KKK and mentioned that at that particular period in America’s history, members of the KKK sincerely felt they were doing God’s will just as the terrorists who have hijacked the peaceful religion of Islam believe they are doing God’s will. Well, my son raised his hand and said something to the effect of, “Actually, Islam is not a religion of peace. Did you know that the Hadith” – and he explained what that is – “dictates that only three choices are acceptable for non-Muslims according to Islam?” He went on to explain the three choices were conversion, paying the non-Muslim tax, or death. At that point, his teacher said to him something of the effect of, “Telling vicious lies like that and spreading hatred for Muslims is exactly the same thing the Nazis did when they spread lies about Jewish people eating Catholic babies in order to spread hatred for Jewish people.” My son sat in his chair, said nothing, and class proceeded. My son came home devastated.But, never did he question that what he said was accurate. He was devastated that the teacher made him look like a liar and a “discriminating punk” – his words, not mine – in front of his classmates. He was heartbroken that people would look at him as someone who would ever spread hatred or untruths when he – at the age of thirteen – had spent four years learning what the truth is and uncovering the places where true hatred lives. I knew immediately that this was a situation that my son needed to handle himself, so we began to speak about the options that he had in dealing with his teacher, his classmates, and his school administrators. He worked out a plan with which he was comfortable, began printing articles from your site and others, used his own money to purchase a copy of the Qur’an for his teacher (which he highlighted – heavily), and worked up the courage to take it all to his history teacher. After a very long conversation, and after receiving an apology from his teacher (for hurting his feelings but not for saying that his statements were untrue), my son was allowed to speak to his class about what he had said and why he believes it to be true. His “speech” was short, and I wasn’t there to hear it, but I’m quite certain he did the best job that he could. I was – and am – very proud of him.
So, now it’s been three weeks since that incident, and my son came home from school today with the age old assignment of “Please write an essay naming five or six famous people you would like to have dinner with and why” essay. The essay was assigned by his history teacher. Curious who he would choose, I asked him. He looked at me like I was stupid and said, “Robert, Hugh, Rebecca, Ibn Warraq, Bat Ye’or, and you. Even though you’re not famous I figure you should get to be at dinner. But I get to sit near Rebecca. And we both know you want to sit near Hugh anyway.”
Out of the mouth of babes.
Thank you so very much for the service you provide and for the struggle that you, and so many like you, persist to keep alive. It is because of your efforts during the past decades, and the efforts that I know you’ll be making for decades to come, that children like my son will be able to grow up and enjoy a life free of the oppression and violence dictated by the jihad.
With absolute sincerity and with the utmost respect,
Andrea L. Padinha
aka: quietwatcher
Thank you, Ms. Padinha. I look forward very much to that dinner.
Posted by Robert at March 23, 2006 4:54 PM
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And some of us were trying to warn people about the dangers of islam before 9-11. Except back then, we were met with a barrage of epithets matched in ferocity only by their ridicule and scorn.
Posted by: Mahdi Al-Dajjal![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at March 23, 2006 5:11 PM
This is of course the heart of the matter.If the Koran means whats printed on the pages and the accomaning books define and cronicale this book.Then indeed theres a large problem.But if this can be explaied away, spun deffretaly, or maybe even a reformation, well then every thing can just be maneged in one degree or another till one day bingo.Its not what it is.Ya right with this kinda effort i'll be heading for the bunker sooner rather then latter.Is it possiable the Koran is fairly clear with its reqierments.If so well then weve all got a large problem.Then the qustion is whats to be done.Heck i dont know.In todays world its nearly impossable to avoid the battle brewing.Or maybe im a bit to unresonable.Either way good luck.
Posted by: Rench at March 23, 2006 5:32 PM
Robert -
I know this is ridiculously paranoid of me and you must have this sort of security issue well-covered by now, but if that dinner is to be arranged, make sure first to confirm through the school the identity of the letter writer.
at March 23, 2006 5:42 PM
I was about to write how affecting that letter was and then read Traeh's note. Yes, you never know. Assuming that the story is straight up, it's one to remember.
Posted by: StillBreathing at March 23, 2006 5:49 PM
Mr. Padinha's son could teach Fox News' Britt Hume a few things about Islam. On last night's show, Mr. Hume said (this isn't an exact quote) that the Koran does not require the Christian Convert (Islam apostate) in Afghanistan be bumped-off.
Sadly, Fred Barnes and the other two commentators didn't correct Hume and, once again, the R.O.P. was, ignorantly, pronounced innocent in the court of "informed opinion."
Posted by: Catholic Guy at March 23, 2006 5:55 PM
Quiet Watcher:
Tell you son he is doing an outstanding job and do not allow what others say to dissuade him for he has character and beliefs based in truth instead of misconception and lies.
Keep up the great work.
The Texican.
at March 23, 2006 5:57 PM
Traeh and Stillbreathing,
I'm a little disheartened by the suggestion that I would make up the incident that happened between my son and his history teacher. I used my real name in my letter to Mr. Spencer, and I gave him permission to use my real name on this site, where many other people do not even use their real names.
My son, at the age of thirteen, stood up to an authority figure about something that he felt strongly should not be swept under the rug – something many people his age would never have the guts to do.
Then, feeling very proud about seeing it posted here, he is confronted with the opinion that it may not be real.
I'd offer you the name of the private school he attends, but I'm quite confident that the administration there would not be happy with me for doing so. The matter was between my son and one teacher. It did not involve the entire administration, and the situation was resolved between one teacher and one student.
Should you have any other concerns, I will happily address them.
Andrea
quietwatcher
at March 23, 2006 5:59 PM
Quietwatcher~ You've already proven you can post with the best here. Come by more often!
Posted by: Gary at March 23, 2006 6:03 PM
... his teacher said to him something of the effect of, “Telling vicious lies like that and spreading hatred for Muslims is exactly the same thing the Nazis did...
Our ability to survive is smothering under the heavy sewer lid of our unwillingness to do so.
I've always said, a series of 30-second prime time spots accurately re-enacting the following Moslem Moments would change the course of the world:
1) The killing of Abu Afak
2) The killing of Asma Marwan
3) The attack and robbery of the Banu Qaynuqa Jews
4) The killing of Kab Ashraf
5) The killing of Ibn Sunayna
6) The attack and robbery of the Banu Nadir Jews
7) The killing of the Shepherd
8) The Massacre of the Qurayza Jews (800 dads ritualistically beheaded in front of their horrified families as the Holy Prophet sat on his throne and licked his oily lips)
9) The torture killing of Kinana
10) The killing of a slave wife and mother
11) The slaying of an old woman from Fazara
12) The killing of Abdullah Khatal and his Daughter
13) The attack upon Tabuk
Run a well produced re-enactments of each on this list --- citing the applicable Islamic scripture at the bottom of the screen in each --- and the course of world history would be changed for the better. But, for some inexplicable reason informing the public truthfully about Islam is absolutely verboten.
MORE KORANS MORE HADITHS MORE SIRATS MORE MOSLEMS MORE ISLAM MO MO
It goes without saying that the Holy Prophet ordered all of these horrific felonies, and that at the time he weaved these and many other horrors into what most today stupidly refer to as a religion. Islam is founded on these and many other criminal acts, but is credited with being a religion.
Islam ain't a religion, it'is an organized crime gang.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 23, 2006 6:04 PM
Traeh and Stillbreathing:
With respect, I think you're overreacting. The dinner in question is hypothetical. If someone wanted to lure me into a trap, this would be a fairly faulty one.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at March 23, 2006 6:05 PM
This is outstanding. What a courageous and insightful parent, and cheers to this intelligent young man. 9 years old, if I read that correctly, and he was wrapping his head around the Qu'ran? I started reading it last semester to become more familiar with it, I am in college, and it was confusing as all hell, to say the very least (what is the sense in ordering the thing based on verse length, rather than chronologically like most of the Bible?) And bravo to him for confronting his teacher... I have had a number of teachers of weak composition insinuate nasty things against me growing up, but I never had the courage to confront these people.
I want to draw everyone's attention to what passes as academic/intellectual curiosity in our nation's universities right now. This is from the NYU Journalism Dept. (where I have declared my major), giving a background on Yvonne Ridley, a British journalist who was captured by the Taliban in 2001 and imprisoned for 10 days, and who converted to Islam after being released. You will find a number of patently false claims in her quotes in this article, and will most likely be as outraged as I that she is being invited to speak to the young journalists of NYU. What are her credentials? That she was captured and converted to a foreign religion that people seem to "misunderstand" so much these days?
Anyway, here is the article, please read it: http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/bullpen/yvonne_ridley/backgrounder/ .
Posted by: sologue at March 23, 2006 6:34 PM
It's a beautiful letter. September 11, 2001 was a wake-up call for me as well. Before then I was agnostic and believed islam was like many others - somewhat peaceful with chaotic pasts. After 9/11, I wanted to know why someone would do such things and discovered islam is not the peaceful religon our leaders say it is. The more I learn about islam, the more it revolted me and pushed me closer to islam's opposite - the teachings of Christ.
Thank you JW and many others for helping with the truth.
Posted by: Oneofthesilientmajority at March 23, 2006 7:04 PM
Well won't that be fun! This young man sounds like the future, our future, yours, mine and ours.
The long struggle ahead of course will be born on the faith of young men like this. Faith in what is true or faith in Truth is akin to love of truth and love of truth is the only light that has ever lit the way for mankind at all.
I have long thought that loyalty to truth is an accurate measure of a person's character. This young man has already shown his mettle in a public arena, doing battle for truth against falsehood, error and outright lies.
When people ask, what would Jesus do, I think the answer may be something akin to what your son did. He taught the teachers and he showed courage and persistence in his loyalty to truth even in the face of persecution.
For the sake of such young people, we cannot lose. With such young people on our side, we cannot lose.
It would be my great honor to meet this young man and I know someday we shall sit together and talk of many things...of shoes and ships and sealing wax...
May God bless you both,
Rebecca
at March 23, 2006 7:05 PM
Forgive my skeptism, but she read the koran while in Taliban custody. Did they happen to have an English version or is she fluent in Arabic? If she is how did she become so? Did she skip the part where Mo says that women are deficient?
Posted by: Borg at March 23, 2006 7:12 PM
Of course this letter was on the up-and-up. No conceivable doubt. I'm an unlikely candidate to charge others with "Ye of little faith" but I will here.
Posted by: Hugh at March 23, 2006 7:23 PM
To Andrea's son - just to reassure you that you're not alone, I posted this here just a few weeks ago:
"I remember the first few times at other blogs than this one, when I was first called a Nazi and a hate-mongerer. I was completely shocked. First I cried. Then I got mad. Then a coworker called me a Nazi. Then my husband called me a Nazi (He's now a reformed lefty.) Then my mother called me a Nazi (she's now very concerned about the Islamist threat as well). My far lefty sister STILL thinks I'm a Nazi. And I think she's a totalitarian! We don't speak any more. My husband's lefty ex-wife has warned my husband and me against inculcating "hate and fear" in her son, whom we have an ongoing relationship with. (You might note that I am indeed surrounded mostly by liberals if not downright lefties but I was a liberal myself and am indeed still one, albeit a "classic liberal"). But in any case, so it goes. I reckon war reveals a whole lot about people you never knew was under the surface. … I believe that during the American civil war, brothers actually fought on opposite sides…..But what are you gonna do? Reality is reality. It is simply too absurd to contemplate the entire world falling back into the dark ages because people are afraid of giving offense. Death by politeness? Is that how western civilization is to go down? Sometimes I think yes. That is how it will go down - to the ultimate bourgeois value...Now how ironic is that?? I would recommend to everyone who hasn't yet been called a Nazi or a racist or a bigot or an Islamophobe to press the limits until you get called precisely that. Then cry, fume, seethe, whatever until you've worked through the shocking emotions. In other words, practice self-inflicted systematic desensitization.
Posted by: Caroline at March 4, 2006 08:32 PM"
Eisenhund humorously replied:
"This is one of those areas of life where if you haven't been addressed by one of the more popular leftist/liberal buzzwords - "nazi", "fascist", "racist", "X-phobe" - then you're just not trying hard enough."
Please note Andrea's son - when I say I was called a Nazi, what I mean is that I was confronted by people, EXACTLY as you were by your teacher, with the accusation that I was doing to the Muslims exactly what the Nazis had done to the Jews. And so believe me - I know EXACTLY what you experienced emotionally!
This response to discussing the reality of Islam has been so common in my own experience that it led me to the realization that this is literally half the battle - recognizing that is where so many westerners are coming from in their hostility to having any rational discussion about Islam at all because their entire mental landscape is SO overwhelmed by the fact of the holocaust that they are incapable of conceiving of some other model in a sense. Their minds are frozen by it. But history usually DOES NOT replicate itself exactly. I wish I could recall who here pointed out to me that historically people have tended to keep looking at the last war and preparing for that one and then gotten blindsided when the circumstances of the new war weren't what they had anticipated at all. Taking that historical lesson to heart it means getting people to see that no - Muslims are NOT the "new Jews" but in fact share a great deal in common with the Nazis themselves irrespective of the fact that they are currently a minority in the west, which is about the ONLY thing they DO have in common with the Jews in 1930's/1940's Europe. This is a fact which is backed up not only by their history but by their "sacred" book and by their actions all around the world today, especially including their virulent anti-semitism and their vocal demands to implement a "final solution" of the Jews themselves. There are also huge numbers of Muslims who are not active practitioners of Islam the religion, which enormously complicates the issue.
In any case, Andrea's son. You handled what happened incredibly well and bravely, to arm yourself with knowledge and then get back in there in front of the class no less. I bet you'll be less shocked the next time someone says the same thing to you. It's bound to happen (but ask your Mom to explain systematic desensitization). And come to think of it, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the staff at JW might not feel pretty honored to sit next to YOU at dinner. Cause I know some of the posters and readers here would :-)
Posted by: Caroline at March 23, 2006 7:30 PM
Borg,
Re-read the letter I wrote to Mr. Spencer. We did not read the Qur'an when my son was 9. He was 9 when the attacks of 9-11 happened and I began to look into Islam, terrorism, and the Middle East. When read the Qur'an the first time somewhere near the end of 2004 (forgive me for not being able to tell you the exact date we started and ended). The first time through, we skimmed quite a bit, generally looking for passages that we had read about somewhere else. We read it for the second time in the middle of 2005, this time being more diligent about reading more of the passages. We read it for "real", cover to cover after PIG came out and after my friend turned me on to JW/DW and I saw the version of the Qur'an that Mr. Spencer recommended.
You're skepticism is sad, and I will continue to defend my letter to Mr. Spencer here as often as is necessary, because really what I am defending is my son and the guts he had to stand up to his teacher and to refuse to allow her that Islam is a religion of peace.
My son, by the way, can speak more intelligently about the Ports deal, the War in Iraq, and most other political topics than almost any adult I know.
And, no, he isn't (nor am I) fluent in Arabic, but he's near fluent in Latin (in the eighth grade, mind you).
Have a good evening.
at March 23, 2006 7:31 PM
"And come to think of it, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the staff at JW might not feel pretty honored to sit next to YOU at dinner." (from my post)
Rebecca (who posted this while I was typing): "It would be my great honor to meet this young man"
Ha Andrea's son! Told you so!:-)
at March 23, 2006 7:34 PM
Quietwatcher and Son...
What an inspiring letter. What an outstanding young man...You should be so proud of the way HE handled the situation and taught the teacher. Kudos to the teacher for listening also and not getting the Administration involved. Theres much to be said about educating the educators.
I say nominate your son to be Chief Advisor to the Bush Administration as we all know they need much education on Polital Correctness.
God Bless both of you...Heck I'd be honored to BUY both of you Dinner!
at March 23, 2006 7:40 PM
Quietwatcher, thanks for sharing something so personal. You should be very proud of your son (and also proud of yourself for raising him so well). It is not easy, even for an adult, to stand up for what one believes in knowing that your point of view runs counter to that of everyone else around, let alone for a 13 year old kid to do so. I wonder if your kid's teacher has changed his views over time.
Also (and I know I speak on behalf of all JWers here) please accept my gratitude for the terrific service you and your fellow firefighters did in the aftermath of the 9-11 bombings. If the tearing down of the Twin Towers represents the epitome of the impotent Islamic rage, the bravery and unselfish work of firefighters like you represents to me the best of the American spirit.
Posted by: Razdan at March 23, 2006 7:43 PM
The 11th commandment: Know Thy Enemy.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at March 23, 2006 7:43 PM
Yes, well, while Ms. Padinha and Hugh are discussing Abdul-Qadir and his adventures in the Kabyles, and the lepidoptery of Владимир Набоков, and young Master Padinha and Rebecca talk over cabbages and kings, and why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings, I will engage Ibn Warraq in a quiet game of chess, which, as everyone knows, originated in Sindh as chaturanga about a thousand years before the advent of Islam, to whose adherents it is often attributed. Bat Ye'or can take on the winner after Ibn Warraq pronounces the checkmate.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
at March 23, 2006 7:46 PM
Affirmitive Action is the spring-board of which Islam has had it's highest rise in America.
Religious Discrimination Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of l964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing, and other terms and conditions of employment. Title VII covers employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.
So just how are we to come against the threat when, because of the above, embedded in our law, schools, and culture nearly prevent the criticism of Islam? Not to mention the front groups like CAIR who are actively going after any critcism of Islam. We're supposed to "celebrate 'diversity'".
'Jihad' Threat Forces Burger King to Change Ice Cream Logo
And just how again are Christians treated in countries such as Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria?
PROPER DEBATE AND CRITICISM OF ISLAM IS THE FIRST STEP.
Religion (specify) Accommodation for religious beliefs Christianity Judaism Islam
Which one of these is not like the other.
Robert keep up the good work.
Posted by: Report at March 23, 2006 7:47 PM
Razdan,
I wasn't living in New York at the time. My son and I were (are) living safely (as safe as it gets anymore) in Florida. Also, I'm a medic, not a firefighter. I want to make sure the facts are straight, so as not to elicit anymore questions as to the truthfulness of the letter to Mr. Spencer.
That said, the guys (and gals) who worked up there during that time, and gave in ways more unselfishly than I can even imagine, know how grateful everyone was (is). I still have many firefighter / medic friends there. They know.
Have a good one.
at March 23, 2006 7:49 PM
Mr. Spencer,
My kiddo would be happy to challenge either you or Mr. Warraq to a game of chess when he's finished his lengthy (I'm sure) conversation with Rebecca. But just so you know up front, all my money says that the kid walks away from that one the winner.
Posted by: quietwatcher at March 23, 2006 7:53 PM
Quietwatcher,
While I cannot speak for Ibn Warraq, I'm sure your son would defeat me soundly in any such match.
Cordially,
RS
at March 23, 2006 7:54 PM
Quietwatcher...
I also wanted to give my appreciation to you for being a Paramedic and knew so many of the perished heroes of 911, the Fireman and Police.
I myself was a Fireman for 13 years and a Captain for 6 years so the forgotten heroes will never be forgotten from the senseless murders at the hands of Islam. After finding out about Robert's site and books I am getting more informed on a daily basis...Your son is a man at 13...
at March 23, 2006 7:58 PM
Siciliano,
"Your son is a man at age 13"
He likes to think so, but I'm his mom and he'll always just be my "baby." Boy, how he'll hate to read that!
at March 23, 2006 8:00 PM
Bravo quietwatcher & son! Unlike you, once I started reading JW/DW I did start commenting (not fearlessly - I delete more comments than I post).
Not expecting Hugh's humor when he posted a contest -it was obvious I was out of my league . . .ha ha. . .the joke was on me. Theres a learning curve and I'm still climbing (buying books and reading, reading, reading).
The JW/DW websites are marvelous educational tools and I often save posts and many many comments for future reference. The mélange of commenters offers global insight, entertainment and even a gold star every now and then. Two of my children have used material from this site on schoolwork (middle school/college).
As recently as this week, a college instructor refused a paper based on it's topic not qualifying as a 'concept' (Palestinians). Interesting times our children are facing.
Andrea, you and your son's dinner companions would be welcome in my home as well.
BTW and OT . . .I note an interesting absense at the counter terror symposium . . .
Paging Hugh Fitzgerald!
at March 23, 2006 8:02 PM
But of coarse as you are his Mom!!
But nevertheless he is VERY mature for 13!
at March 23, 2006 8:05 PM
quietwatcher~
I was responding to the post about Yvonne Ridley, but since I am such a slow typist it wasn't right next to the post.
I admire your letter and the actions of both you and your son. You are being wise to make him aware of the danger. So many young people facing college are completely unaware. When he reaches that time he will be ready. Just let him know to be cautious.
Posted by: Borg at March 23, 2006 8:09 PM
Quietwatcher,
As someone who has had the honour of having dinner with Robert Spencer, I can promise that you and your son will not be disappointed. The rest of your son's guest list only makes me jealous.
at March 23, 2006 8:10 PM
Provoslavni,
The dinner is strictly hypothetical, although there's an open invite anytime anyone from the JW/DW site happens to be in the Sunshine State. My son -- whose name is Nicholas, by the way -- was excited enough just to know that Mr. Spencer, Mr. Fitzgerald, and ESPECIALLY Rebecca (to whom we refer on a first name basis and mean absolutely no disrespect by doing so) had read about his experience. He'll be talking about it for some time to come, I'm sure.
Posted by: quietwatcher at March 23, 2006 8:26 PM
Quietwatcher & Son:
Kudos to you. As a parent myself, I am in awe of both your accomplishments. Way to go!
Have you read Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography?
Keep reading; keep learning. There is always something new to learn. One good rule of thumb when studying the humanities is when you are trying to get a grip on the reality of some historical situation (Ex. the partition of India), always start with the facts and then work toward some kind of theory about what happened. People who start with a theory and then try to make the facts fit it can come out with the most outrageous nonsense. In other words, try not to come to a new subject with previously acquired biases and prejudices. You will also find out about intellectual determinisms. For instance, most Marxists think that the only motives that people can have are economic in nature. They are economic determinists. They do not think that people can have motives other than economic ones such as patriotism, religion, etc.. That is why people who have this intellectual prejudice think that the war in Iraq is all about oil. They can't think of any other reason to be there. You will eventually meet them all: environmental determinists, technological determinists, etc..
Ibn Warraq says in his introduction to Andrew Bostom's The Legacy of Jihad: "Sir Isaiah Berlin once described an ideologue as somebody who is prepared to suppress what he suspects to be true. Berlin then concluded that from that disposition to suppress the truth has flowed much of the evil of this and other centuries. The first duty of the intellectual is to tell the truth. By suppressing the truth, however honorable the motive, we are only engendering an even greater evil." (p. 23) If you keep the above fine words in mind, you will never come to intellectual grief.
Finally, here is a really cool piece of knowledge that not many people know about it (I hope it is news to you). Did you know about the religion that most Kurds held before they were converted to Islam? They followed, and some still follow, the religion of Yazidism. Check it out. It is really interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi
Keep up the good work, Quietwatcher & Son. I am inspired by your example.
Posted by: Mentat at March 23, 2006 8:26 PM
Quietwatcher,
Yes, I think Borg was responding to the link in my comment, sorry if that was confusing.
Again, you are a courageous and responsible parent, I am so thankful there are still parents like you in America, sometimes I wonder when I see just how degraded our society has become.
Posted by: sologue at March 23, 2006 8:35 PM
The story of quietwatcher and her son is one story hopefully of many, as more and more people slowly wake up to the problem. I remember it was some time in 2002 (I can't recall the month or day) when a Ding! went off in my head, and I had the epiphany that allowed me to drop the "-ism" at the end of "Islamism" and the "radical"/"extremist"/"fundamentalist" at the beginning, and simply let the mind see the Islam at the base of it all. I think there are still many people who have yet to go through that mental process, for sometimes formidable obstacles are in the way for such a leap.
Posted by: Television at March 23, 2006 8:36 PM
What an inspirational story! Thank you for sharing it with your fellow truth seekers - Bravo!
Posted by: champ at March 23, 2006 8:43 PM
To quietwatcher and son,
I was very pleased to read your letter and I thank Robert for posting it. We live in a funny age when those who try to criticize bigotry and intolerance are accused of it. Often any criticism of Islam, regardless of its legitimacy, is dismissed as bigotry. All one can do is persist in telling the truth as accurately as possible, and eventually the message will get through to the majority. I'm impressed with your son's courage, and his knowledge, and I thank you for teaching him.
From your letter, your son said:
"“Actually, Islam is not a religion of peace. Did you know that the Hadith” – and he explained what that is – “dictates that only three choices are acceptable for non-Muslims according to Islam?” He went on to explain the three choices were conversion, paying the non-Muslim tax, or death."
This policy, as you probably know, is found in the Koran itself, 9:29. Do you read tafsir (commentary, explanation) of the Koran? This helps clarify the meaning. Here is Ibn Kathir's tafsir of 9:29 (tafsir often makes use of the Ahadith):
[Note that the titles are Ibn Kathir's; each commentary contains about a page or two of information]
9:29 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20980
The Order to fight People of the Scriptures until They give the Jizyah
9:29 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20986
Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace
9:31- http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20998
Fighting the Jews and Christians is legislated because They are Idolators and Disbelievers
9:32 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=21029
People of the Scriptures try to extinguish the Light of Islam
9:33 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=21037
Islam is the Religion That will dominate over all Other Religions
Compare 9:33 to 48:28; they are essentially the same verse (also see 61:9).
48:28 http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=48&tid=49630
The Good News that Muslims will conquer the Known World, and ultimately the Entire World
48:21-, http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=48&tid=49468
Good News of continuous Muslim Victories until the Day of Resurrection
Posted by: Archimedes
at March 23, 2006 8:49 PM
Nicholas,
Young men your age should not have to fight wars such as this, but your warrior spirit is certainly up to the task and most admirable. I salute you.
Posted by: butterfly at March 23, 2006 9:25 PM
I tell my sons about the Islam and the Moslem all the time. They laugh at the ridiculous comedy and nihilism of it all, until I tell them to look it up and it's their the ones with the threatened futures, not me. Then they look a little pissed off, and concerned.
MO KORANS & HADITHS MO WELFARE POLYGAMY BREEDING MO n MO MOHAMMEDS
I bragged to them that I was gonna keep a copy of the Koran and a box cutter in my commode. The redhead checked one day and was deeply disappointed that I hadn't implemented my one-page-per-movement plan. His buddies on the high school baseball team just shook their heads and turned their backs on me when I showed up for tryouts the other day.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at March 23, 2006 10:12 PM
quietwatcher and son,
My apologies--those links to the Ibn Kathir site are down at the moment, but here is the tafsir for verses 9:29 and 48:28 respectively.
9:29
The Order to fight People of the Scriptures until They give the Jizyah
Allah said,
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.) Therefore, when People of the Scriptures disbelieved in Muhammad , they had no beneficial faith in any Messenger or what the Messengers brought. Rather, they followed their religions because this conformed with their ideas, lusts and the ways of their forefathers, not because they are Allah's Law and religion. Had they been true believers in their religions, that faith would have directed them to believe in Muhammad , because all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him. Yet when he was sent, they disbelieved in him, even though he is the mightiest of all Messengers. Therefore, they do not follow the religion of earlier Prophets because these religions came from Allah, but because these suit their desires and lusts. Therefore, their claimed faith in an earlier Prophet will not benefit them because they disbelieved in the master, the mightiest, the last and most perfect of all Prophets . Hence Allah's statement,
(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture,) This honorable Ayah was revealed with the order to fight the People of the Book, after the pagans were defeated, the people entered Allah's religion in large numbers, and the Arabian Peninsula was secured under the Muslims' control. Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination. The Messenger sent his intent to various Arab areas around Al-Madinah to gather forces, and he collected an army of thirty thousand. Some people from Al-Madinah and some hypocrites, in and around it, lagged behind, for that year was a year of drought and intense heat. The Messenger of Allah marched, heading towards Ash-Sham to fight the Romans until he reached Tabuk, where he set camp for about twenty days next to its water resources. He then prayed to Allah for a decision and went back to Al-Madinah because it was a hard year and the people were weak, as we will mention, Allah willing.
9:29
Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace
Allah said,
(until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam,
(with willing submission), in defeat and subservience,
(and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated. Muslim recorded from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet said,
(Do not initiate the Salam to the Jews and Christians, and if you meet any of them in a road, force them to its narrowest alley.) This is why the Leader of the faithful `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, demanded his well-known conditions be met by the Christians, these conditions that ensured their continued humiliation, degradation and disgrace. The scholars of Hadith narrated from `Abdur-Rahman bin Ghanm Al-Ash`ari that he said, "I recorded for `Umar bin Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, the terms of the treaty of peace he conducted with the Christians of Ash-Sham: `In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. This is a document to the servant of Allah `Umar, the Leader of the faithful, from the Christians of such and such city. When you (Muslims) came to us we requested safety for ourselves, children, property and followers of our religion. We made a condition on ourselves that we will neither erect in our areas a monastery, church, or a sanctuary for a monk, nor restore any place of worship that needs restoration nor use any of them for the purpose of enmity against Muslims. We will not prevent any Muslim from resting in our churches whether they come by day or night, and we will open the doors [of our houses of worship] for the wayfarer and passerby. Those Muslims who come as guests, will enjoy boarding and food for three days. We will not allow a spy against Muslims into our churches and homes or hide deceit [or betrayal] against Muslims. We will not teach our children the Qur'an, publicize practices of Shirk, invite anyone to Shirk or prevent any of our fellows from embracing Islam, if they choose to do so. We will respect Muslims, move from the places we sit in if they choose to sit in them. We will not imitate their clothing, caps, turbans, sandals, hairstyles, speech, nicknames and title names, or ride on saddles, hang swords on the shoulders, collect weapons of any kind or carry these weapons. We will not encrypt our stamps in Arabic, or sell liquor. We will have the front of our hair cut, wear our customary clothes wherever we are, wear belts around our waist, refrain from erecting crosses on the outside of our churches and demonstrating them and our books in public in Muslim fairways and markets. We will not sound the bells in our churches, except discretely, or raise our voices while reciting our holy books inside our churches in the presence of Muslims, nor raise our voices [with prayer] at our funerals, or light torches in funeral processions in the fairways of Muslims, or their markets. We will not bury our dead next to Muslim dead, or buy servants who were captured by Muslims. We will be guides for Muslims and refrain from breaching their privacy in their homes.' When I gave this document to `Umar, he added to it, `We will not beat any Muslim. These are the conditions that we set against ourselves and followers of our religion in return for safety and protection. If we break any of these promises that we set for your benefit against ourselves, then our Dhimmah (promise of protection) is broken and you are allowed to do with us what you are allowed of people of defiance and rebellion.'''
48:28
The Good News that Muslims will conquer the Known World, and ultimately the Entire World
Allah the Exalted and Most Honored said, while delivering the glad tidings to the believers that the Messenger will triumph over his enemies and the rest of the people of the earth,
(He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth,) with beneficial knowledge and righteous good deeds. Indeed, the Islamic Shari`ah has two factors, knowledge and deeds. The true religious knowledge is by definition true, and the accepted Islamic acts are by definition accepted. Therefore, the news and creed that this religion conveys are true and its commandments are just,
(that He may make it superior to all religions.) all the religions of the people of the earth, Arabs and non-Arabs alike, whether having certain ideologies or being atheists or idolators.
(And All-Sufficient is Allah as a Witness.) that Muhammad is His Messenger and that He will grant him victory. Allah the Exalted and Most Honored has the best knowledge.
at March 23, 2006 10:59 PM
Archi: Sorry but your links above don't work.
Mr. Spencer,
Last year I went through this myself:
I wrote to you about my daughter who goes to 'the very best' private university here in QLD, and that she couldn't cope: Exactly that very same kind of BS, like " Mohammedan golden age, cradle of civilization, women elevated and more rights than western women" etc. etc.
I know you're busy, perhaps my writing style is not as eloquent compared with the above writer, but I would have been soooo happy for your support then:
The poor girl was constantly in tears being called 'racist', but as my daughter -of course- she knew that she did have a case, but perhaps not enough knowledge to argue it convincingly in the classroom. She dropped out of ME studies, needless to say. No grudges, but your support would have been more than welcome.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at March 23, 2006 11:02 PM
Andrea
quietwatcher
Posted by: quietwatcher at March 23, 2006 05:59 PM
2 Gold Stars for you and 2 Gold stars for your son!!
And Catherine is my real name and once Mr Spencer Put up my last name as well that is not an easy thing to do in todays world.
Lady you have more balls that you know and thank God for people like you who have the courage to learn and not just keep your head in the sand!
Wish I had your writting skills they are also great.
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
PS
Never forget you are fighting as well by learning and teaching and standing your grown. Info is power.
at March 23, 2006 11:06 PM
sheik,
My apologies, and to others as well, who tried those links. The Ibn Kathir tafsir is the best I've encountered and is reportedly the most respected in Sunni Islam. Unfortunately, that site goes "down" once in a while. Other tafsir are available on the net, such as at altafsir.
Here is more of Ibn Kathir:
Verse 9:33
Islam is the Religion That will dominate over all Other Religions
Allah said next,
(It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth.) `Guidance' refers to the true narrations, beneficial faith and true religion that the Messenger came with. `religion of truth' refers to the righteous, legal deeds that bring about benefit in this life and the Hereafter.
(to make it (Islam) superior over all religions) It is recorded in the Sahih that the Messenger of Allah said,
(Allah made the eastern and western parts of the earth draw near for me [to see], and the rule of my Ummah will extend as far as I saw.) Imam Ahmad recorded from Tamim Ad-Dari that he said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah saying,
(This matter (Islam) will keep spreading as far as the night and day reach, until Allah will not leave a house made of mud or hair, but will make this religion enter it, while bringing might to a mighty person (a Muslim) and humiliation to a disgraced person (who rejects Islam). Might with which Allah elevates Islam (and its people) and disgrace with which Allah humiliates disbelief (and its people).) Tamim Ad-Dari [who was a Christian before Islam] used to say, "I have come to know the meaning of this Hadith in my own people. Those who became Muslims among them acquired goodness, honor and might. Disgrace, humiliation and Jizyah befell those who remained disbelievers.''
48:21-
Good News of continuous Muslim Victories until the Day of Resurrection
The statement of Allah the Exalted and Most Honored,
(And other (victories) which are not yet within your power; indeed Allah encompasses them. And Allah is Ever Able to do all things.) Meaning, there are other war spoils and victories to come which are not within your grasp now. However, Allah will make them within your reach and indeed He compasses all these victories for your benefit. Surely, Allah the Exalted provides provisions and sustenance for His servants who have Taqwa, from resources they could never imagine. Scholars of Tafsir differ over the reference to other war spoils mentioned here. Al-`Awfi reported that Ibn `Abbas said that it refers to the conquest of Khaybar. This meaning is sound according to the Ayah,
(and He has hastened for you this.) which refers to the treaty of Al-Hudaybiyyah. This is view of Ad-Dahhak, Muhammad bin Ishaq and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam. Qatadah said that this part of the Ayah refers to the conquest of Makkah, and this opinion was preferred by Ibn Jarir. Ibn Abi Layla and Al-Hasan Al-Basri said that it refers to victories over the Persians and the Romans, while Mujahid said that it refers to every victory and all spoils of war, until the Day of Resurrection. Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Ibn `Abbas commented on the Ayah,
(And other (victories) which are not yet within your power; indeed Allah compasses them.), "They are the victories that are continuing until this day.''
at March 23, 2006 11:25 PM
Kathir's tafsir of 48:28 takes into account other parts of the Koran as well ad Hadith for its interpretation. One may infer from 9:33, 48:28, etc., that Islam must conquer not just in some historically-bound context, but in the whole world, because verse 34:28, which states that Islam's mission is to all mankind. Combine that with the jihad policy of 8:39, 2:193, 9:5, 9:29, which clearly call for the use of force if necessary, plus the expectation that Muslims must follow the Koran, and Ibn Kathir's interpretation makes sense.
The Jihad goes on until judgement day.
Sahih Muslim, Book 020, Number 4717 (see 4715-4724):
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) said: This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 14, Number 2526:
Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.
Islam's mission is to all mankind.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.
1. Allah made me victorious by awe, (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey.
2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum, therefore anyone of my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due.
3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.
4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection).
5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.
Jihad is fighting to make Islam supreme; Making Islam supreme is "Allah's Cause".
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 3, Number 125: Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What kind of fighting is in Allah's cause? (I ask this), for some of us fight because of being enraged and angry and some for the sake of his pride and haughtiness." The Prophet raised his head (as the questioner was standing) and said, "He who fights so that Allah's Word (Islam) should be superior, then he fights in Allah's cause."
Sahih Muslim, Book 020, Number 4684 (also 4685, 4686, 4687):
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Musa Ash'ari that a desert Arab came to the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, one man fights fgr the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and another fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valour in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the cause of God? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the way of Allah.
The Jihadist's motive is purely for Islam
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 35: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 352: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees him who strives in His Cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His Cause and belief in His Word, that He will admit him into Paradise (if martyred) or bring him back to his dwelling place, whence he has come out, with what he gains of reward and booty."
Anyone who does not strive in Allah's cause is a hypocrite (also see Sura 9).
Sahih Muslim, Book 020, Number 4696:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite. 'Abdullah b. Mubarak said: We think the hadith pertained to the time of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him).
Muslims who kill these hypocrites will be rewarded in Paradise.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 808:
Narrated 'Ali:
I relate the traditions of Allah's Apostle to you for I would rather fall from the sky than attribute something to him falsely. But when I tell you a thing which is between you and me, then no doubt, war is guile. I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "In the last days of this world there will appear some young foolish people who will use (in their claim) the best speech of all people (i.e. the Qur'an) and they will abandon Islam as an arrow going through the game. Their belief will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have practically no belief), so wherever you meet them, kill them, for he who kills them shall get a reward on the Day of Resurrection."
at March 23, 2006 11:52 PM
Quietwatcher,
You are a wise man for not jumping to conclusions,and rather start studying the problem yourself,and then reach your own conclusions.
This was exactly what i did,but it was a couple of years before 9/11,so by the time of the attack,unlike a lot of people,i new what was going on.
The truth is we are in a survival war with islam and we don`t want to aknowledge it,let alone fight it in a proper manner.
This country,while the greatest country on earth,is paralyzed by political correctness and by the enemy within,the radical left.
Tell your son to be firm in his convictions and to be proud of having a father such as you.
Robert Spencer`s books are a good source of information on islam,so are Danile Pipes,Steven Emmerson and others.
I just got Oriana Fallaci`s last book,"The force of reason",despite the fact that the translation from italian is a bit awkword,the book is fenomenal;after i`m finish reading it,i would like to present it as a gift to your wonderful son.
Adela.
at March 24, 2006 12:09 AM
and I had the epiphany that allowed me to drop the "-ism" at the end of "Islamism" and the "radical"/"extremist"/"fundamentalist" at the beginning, and simply let the mind see the Islam at the base of it all. I think there are still many people who have yet to go through that mental process, for sometimes formidable obstacles are in the way for such a leap.
Posted by: Television at March 23, 2006 08:36 PM
Imagine having that ephipany at the ripe old age of sixteen! I was a freshman in college, the proud recipient of several lucrative scholarships, and I decided to study Middle Eastern History on a whim because I had a romantic fixation on Lawrence of Arabia (the movie). I was absolutely mesmerized by the sultry Arabs and the mystery and exoticism of their lands, and enthralled by their gallant struggles.
As fate would have it, my first professor was an Egyptian immigrant, a muslim apostate. He was very kind to me, I guess because I was younger than the other students and away from my family for the first time in my life. That dear man opened my eyes and shattered my illusions in a hurry, although I had no preconceived ideas about Islam ; I knew absolutely nothing about it. The ubiquitous influence of Islam on every tiny aspect of life, past and present, piqued my interest and curiosity. Sometimes I wish I had never seen the movie that inspired me to learn things that are appalling, revulsive, and deeply worrisome to me.
That was a long, long time ago, when the truth was not relative and political correctness was an incipient concept confined to left-wing dungeons.
Today, students of Middle Eastern Studies will have their heads filled with revisionist history, likely taught by a muslim activist from Palestine, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or another Islamic country that generously donated millions to establish and staff the department.
I am so lucky and so thankful that my adolescent fascination led to an epiphany, although I must admit that I was momentarily crushed when my fantasy collapsed. I only wish today's fantasies about Islam could be as expeditiously refuted, but today is a different world.
Posted by: Susanp at March 24, 2006 12:23 AM
What a wonderful story. How inspiring quietwatcher. I am impressed with your efforts to help educate your son Nicholas. He sounds like a real scholar who has chosen some top notch role models to emulate.
I believe that Jihadwatch is an important website to educate others about the real understanding of jihad and Islam. It is true that there are many educated people who post on this site. Along with you, I am most grateful for the contributions of others who post on this website- and Robert, of course, for making it all happen.
There are probably a lot of other quietwatchers out there reading jihadwatch material each day.
It sounds like you taught Nicholas' teacher some valuable lessons about jihad and Islam. There are many people in the world who have misconceptions about Islam. More education is needed to give the real truth to people. That is why this website is so valuable. Keep up the great work.
Posted by: Johnathan at March 24, 2006 2:23 AM
Quietwatcher,
This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time. The one thing that is lacking these days is knowledge. You and your son aquired the knowledge to do what many would not do and end up in defeat. It is great to see a parent working with their child in getting get the needed knowledge where it cannot be gotten at the school. I have the utmost respect for both of you and look forward to reading future posts. I would like to thank Robert and all the staff for providing the one site where I myself have learned so much of a subject I had no idea what it was about. Also, I would like to thank those who have written very informative posts where there is a lot of valuable knowledge. This is a site that everyone should participate in.
Posted by: THSIMJ at March 24, 2006 2:23 AM
Quietwatcher and son,
I started reading up on Islam around 1997, after reading about a Muslim attacking a woman walking past a Mosque in London because she was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. I was already pretty knowledgable on history and knew of Islamic invasions and conquests, though I had not studied the religion in detail. When Clinton fired some cruise missiles at Bin Laden, I told me wife that he should take OBL much more seriously and that OBL would do something really bad if not stopped.
My son is 9 and my daughter is 11, I have over the last two years started to inform them about Islam, which is especially important as I live in France, both of them were watching TV when 9/11 happaned and both cried.
I started off with the Pallywood films, to make it fun, then I moved on to giving examples and also showing where the school textbooks were incorrect, I give them examples, but its is no where near what you have done with your son. Last night they found a throw the axe game at OBL on the Internet which they loved.
Your son was very brave and it was typical what that teacher did, I have advised my children not to say anything in class because of the likelyhood of being declared a racist by one of these types, also because there are Muslims in their school and because they are already slightly picked on for being top of the class all the time. I also advised them to keep their opinions to themselves.
In my daughters class the teachers started talking about the religions and said that Islam was a religion of peace, my daughter told me she sat there shaking her head slightly, but took care not to be seen, he then almost challanged the class to offer an opinion on this statement, my daughter kept very quiet. He then got the class to say that Islam is a religion of peace, my daughter mouthed the words.
When my daughter came back she told me what happaned, she told me he was talking rubbish and I explained to her that this was typical of the lies put out by the ruling elites in Europe. I was proud of her in rejecting this and also for following my instructions. I wish that my daughter could have stood up and said what your son said, but I don't want to make my children a target and this is a battle that they should not have to fight and can only lose in Europe at this time.
Keep it up.
Posted by: Daffersd at March 24, 2006 2:52 AM
Stories like the ones above about children being berated for speaking out or told to be quiet about their views point out what is wrong with both public and private schools in America. Freedom is out; conformity is in.
Mr. Spencer's "PIG to Islam" is a favorite of both of my teenagers. They enjoy reading this site over my shoulder. I've also recommended the book and site to members of my tutorial high school World History class. One reviewed the book for extra credit. He and his dad read it together and are now spreading the word.
Posted by: teachingmyown at March 24, 2006 3:55 AM
This just brings home what we are doing!
We are all doing things like this behind the scenes –
I know I am - makes you all emotional – this one.
Excellent! Excellent!
If Islam really meant peace - we would not need to do this!
Where's that Buddha blog again!
Posted by: Pass It On at March 24, 2006 6:02 AM
To quietwatcher --
sorry I got paranoid before -- your letter was beautiful. I get a little overworried now and again about the fact that Spencer and Ibn Warraq and their buddies are pretty high on the assassins' list, and the fact that there might be quite a few would-be killers who have thought concretely about how to get to them ...so I get a little paranoid. Apologies for not trusting your lovely letter...
at March 24, 2006 7:23 AM
I hope this lady is aware that the koran is not chronological and so should not be read "start to finish". There is a correct Sura order to read it in, which you can readily find on the internet.
Posted by: Celsius at March 24, 2006 7:41 AM
Long-time lurker finally forced to post by this inspirational letter. I have to admit that I've been growing more and more depressed about the state of the denial that the West is in of late. The Abdul Rahman thing really took a toll on me. But this letter really gives me hope that enlightened, free civilization isn't going to just vanish. It also shows that we can fight the Islamists and their Quislings in the West via what has made Western culture so strong -- education and enlightenment. With that on our side, we cannot lose.
Anyhow, thank you very much for the letter, Andrea. You've really made my week. And thanks a lot for the site, Robert. Your work here is truly vital.
Posted by: OutOfAqaba at March 24, 2006 7:49 AM
That young man has more sense and knowledge about what's going on than most of the leaders of the free world. Maybe it's time for George W. to take a break. Can a 13 year old run for President? God bless him for taking such a bold, yet unpopular stand. For his age, he shows tremendous leadership qualities. This 42 year old salutes you.
PJ
Posted by: PJ at March 24, 2006 9:19 AM
Andrea,( quietwatcher ),
There is nothing grander then being proud of not only what your child has done, but what your child has become. It sounds like your son has become not only a fine young man of character, but a confident young man of principle and honor. You should have many years of love and pride ahead of you.
at March 24, 2006 10:08 AM
Big G in TX has a point. And I would go even further than his advice: while many of us may decry the ultra-litigiousness of our society these days, in this case if quietwatcher would sue that teacher I don't think many of us would consider that an abuse of the legal system. I'm not a lawyer, but my hunch is that quietwatcher would have a case.
Posted by: Television at March 24, 2006 10:24 AM
Big G in Texas (and Television),
I'm satisfied with the way the situation was resolved; more importantly, my son is satisfied. He was upset by two issues. First, he felt like he was called a liar. Second, he felt like his classmates were led to believe that he was a person filled with hatred for all Muslims. Neither statement being even close to the truth, he went searching for ways to set the record straight on both counts. He handled the "liar" issue by digging up enough research to justify to his teacher that what he said was factual, even if she still refused to agree. At least he was able to back up his statement. He handled the "I'm a hater of Muslims" issue by getting his teacher to allow him time to address the students in his class. I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what he said, but whatever it was must have worked just fine because he's still hanging out with the friends he had before the incident and recently returned from his class trip, during which there were no problems and no incidents.
So, Big G in Texas, I see where you're coming from when you say that he was unable to change his teacher's mind. But, come on, how many of us can ever convince someone on the first try that Islam isn't a religion of peace when that's what they choose to believe? If you know a way to do that, please let me know what it is. I would immediately put it to good use all over the place.
Sure, I could have done it the way you suggested, and trust me, I thought about it. I talked it over with many trusted friends before my son was able to convince me that he wanted to try it on his own. I was absolutely prepared to go in there and handle it with him if he didn't get the response he wanted. I'm glad it didn't come to that, though. I'm glad he had facts in hand to give his teacher. I'm glad he had the guts to face her on his own. I know for a fact that I wouldn't have been able to confront an adult who had said those things to me when I was his age. I'm glad that he walked away feeling empowered and confident in his conviction. And, as my son explained it to me, had he caused a really big scene about it, the focus would have been on the scene and not on the issue. This way, he got a chance to expose nineteen or twenty others kids to a reality that they might not otherwise have been exposed. I’d say that’s a pretty good start.
Will I be suing anyone? No. Will I remain proud of my kiddo? You bet.
Have a good one.
Posted by: quietwatcher at March 24, 2006 11:42 AM
Quietwatcher and son...Bravo...While your son suffered public chastisement, he can bask in the knowledge that he was right. Those who stand up for right and principle often become targets and have to take some lumps. But those with heart, like your son, shake off those lumps and continue on. Many famous men and women in history did just that, and are doing it now. Your son is in good company...Knowledge + understanding + experience = wisdom. Your son is on this path...because of that, he gets duh swami's Award for Perpetual Excellence. May he never waver from that path...
Posted by: duh_swami at March 24, 2006 12:16 PM
Quietwatcher:
Since you have done your initial homework so well,you may wish to initiate a second project with your son: reading up on Hitler's close association with Haj Amin el-Husseini (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) and the role played by Muslims in setting up the Holocaust in the Third Reich during the 1930s. You will find it well worth your time.
If your son's history teacher was worthy of his alleged vocation, he would have known something about this topic (and would have known better than to tell your son and his classmates what he did). And he certainly would have known better that to use Nazi Germany as a rhetorical weapon to publicly whip your son with as he apparently did--which is nothing more than a proverbial cheap shot.
Then, you may wish to go yet one step further and have your son investigate history of Islamic instigated bloodshed throughout the Middle East, Africa, Europe, and Asia over the past fourteen centuries. And show the documentation of the aforementioned to your son's poor excuse of a history teacher.
Posted by: pythagoras at March 24, 2006 1:13 PM
Dear "patriot 2", in a recent post you said that "the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity."
Please, please respect the importance of context! You quote the words of Christ, "seventy times seven," from Chapter 18 of the Gospel of Matthew. In context it is clear that forgiveness is contingent upon repentance. The master said to the servant,"I forgave you all that debt because you begged me."[verse 32]. The same issue is dealt with in Luke chapter 17 in which Jesus says, "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and IF HE REPENTS, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I REPENT,' you shall forgive him.[verses 3-4].
Everywhere and always, in scripture, forgiveness depends on repentance. God forgives us as soon as we repent. We are required to forgive all others, as soon as they repent.
As truth is in Jesus.
at March 24, 2006 4:08 PM
quietwatcher,
greet your son from another Nicholas :) and make sure he knows one thing - truth has always a price, and it'd be little thing if we suffer every now and then the scorn of the ignorant.
nikolai
(from Bulgaria)
at March 24, 2006 5:10 PM
Might be time to consider homeschooling.
Posted by: WatchfulEye at March 24, 2006 7:08 PM
quietwatcher, I am so impressed with the way you and your son handled the situation. Letting him resolve it himself was more of an education than most things he'll be taught in school. My 4 boys also read this site, and #2 is always asking to be allowed to write Mr. Spencer a letter. Pretty soon, he'll have his own handle on this site. Tomorrow, I am going to show him your letter- he'll be so impressed by the difference one child can make. Congratulations to both of you, and thank you -people like you bring the world one step closer to being safe for all our children.
Libbysmom, educating four boys at home
p.s. - how do you convince him to do his Latin homework?
Posted by: libbysmom at March 25, 2006 1:49 AM
libbysmom,
I don't have to convince him to do ANY of his homework; he eats it up! Latin is his favorite of all; he's going to Sstate Lain Forum next weekend to defend his county title. Should be fun.
Posted by: quietwatcher at March 25, 2006 6:49 AM
I commend this boy for his courage, and he did what all of us who feel sufficiently well-informed about Islam and why it threatens our civilization should and must do - namely, attempt to educate those who know less than we about this ideology and its objectives. The task is difficult indeed; I have been making the effort for some time now, writing letters to newspapers and to journalists who have published nonsense based upon their unexamined presumptions about the ethical equivalency of all religions, etc. My last letter, written three weeks ago, was a refutation of a claim made by a local imam that Muhammed never hurt anyone or authorized bodily harm to any noncombatant during his lifetime. I cited, inter alia, the murders of the poetess Asma bint Marwan and two other poets...the rebuttal to the imam's obvious piece of taquiyya was not printed, nor, apparently, will it be. I have also purchased multiple copies of books by Robert and by other authors (such as Trifkovic), offering them to friends, family, and acquaintances. Interest has thus far been tepid. Nevertheless, I have resolved to continue my role as that of a voice in the wilderness. I will not rest until I am satisfied that our civilization is no longer threatened by a belief system thoroughly antithetical and hostile to our own. I will continue to speak out for as long as I am able, even if no one, or very few, are receptive to my message.
Posted by: commonsense at March 25, 2006 6:42 PM
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