Parliament calls for Christian convert to be kept in Afghanistan
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2006/March/subcontinent_March1096.xml§ion=subcontinent
Afghanistan's parliament on Wednesday said that a Christian convert seeking asylum abroad should not be allowed to "escape" the country

Posted by: jeffreyimm at March 29, 2006 8:13 AM

It's scary with the Legislature involved. Like an Afghani version of The Prisoner. I wish US Officials would have stepped up and offered him
asylum. I don't trust Europe when it comes to safeguarding those who are on Islam's hit list.
My first comment here. Thanks.

Posted by: Mister Ghost at March 29, 2006 8:29 AM

The AP article reads: "Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi said Wednesday that Italy would be happy to give asylum to the "courageous" Afghan man who faced the death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity."

The use of quotation marks around the word courageous may be because it is drawn from Mr. Berlusconi's remarks, or it could mean that the AP writer doesn't believe the Afghani Christian displayed any courage in holding to his faith although he faced the gallows for doing so.

I'll give the writer the benefit of the doubt, and assume the former case is true.

Posted by: Mr. Arbroath at March 29, 2006 8:44 AM

Does the name "Theo Van Gogh" ring a bell? Our State Department dropped the ball on this one. There is no way that the Italian government can insure Bro Rahman's safety. At least if he had the Atlantic Ocean between him and Islamofecesland he'd have a better chance at a secured life. President Bush and Condolezza Rice have little to show in this case. The Afghan parliment is playing the monkey with a wrench role now. Their trying to block Bro. Rahman extridition from Afghanistan. Maybe there's a chance the President and the Secretary of State can still save face in this matter.
We'll see in the coming days.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at March 29, 2006 8:57 AM

Well, no, Arbroath, "grande coraggio," great courage, are exactly the words that Berlusconi used. AP were quoting. And some of his ministers have also said that this however does nothing to solve the issue of human rights - i.e. religious freedom - in Afghanistan. The Opposition said nothing, which means that they know that the Government is on a winner with this one. I would like to point out that the move started from the Foreign Minister, Fini, the ex-Fascist who is one of the very few intelligent men in the governing coalition.

Everyone: please do not let me hear any praise for the Berlusconi government for this. This is pure electioneering, intended to firm up the government's lead among Catholic voters. The fact is that, for a number of reasons which do in fact include cowardice before Muslims - Magdi Allam rightly blasted the recent gutless behaviour in front of Gheddafi's violent blackmail - this is a government that has been an unmitigated disaster for Italy. The only thing to be said for them is that the opposition look likely to be even worse. And the only thing to be said for the opposition, in turn, is that Berlusconi is not only the worst crook, but the most atrociously incompetent self-centred maniac ever to rule this unfortunate country. He is, to explain matters in one sentence, like a right-wing, billionaire version of Hugo Chavez, and even his political allies view him with open and increasingly undisguised contempt.

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 9:05 AM

They should give him a job in the Vatican with a Swiss Guard as security. They're tough boys.

PJ

Posted by: PJ at March 29, 2006 9:06 AM

I think a few more daisy cutters are still needed in Afghanistans hinderlands.

Posted by: JanuaryMan at March 29, 2006 9:06 AM

Ironman Hondo: do the words "witness protection program" ring a bell with you? That was something that your country learned from us. Long before Islam became a problem, the Italian police and judiciary had learned to protect threatened people. Italy is not Britain, where an essential witness for a murder trial can be threatened and murdered without the police even beginning to think that their help might be requested. (For the Punch and Judy world of British policing, read many entries in Melanie Phillips' blog. I myself found myself nearly arrested by a brain-dead cop who did not like my accent, when I had summoned the police to be protected from a thug; which taught me never to trust a British cop again.)

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 9:09 AM

He has a much better chance in Italy, though he might need bodyguards there too.

By the way, anyone guess how many times the Qur'an commands people to 'obey' Muhammed?

In reading the Qur'an, my sense is that "obedience" is the main theme. I've collected all the "obey Muhammed" verses at my blog, so people can see the extent of the repetitive drill.

There is more than one kind of obedience in life though. Obedience can be given in an external way, perhaps to some kind of 'master' or 'prophet,' or based on rewards and punishments, fear and pleasure. All this seems strongly present in the Qur'an.

But one can instead give obedience to one's own strongest, most creative, most striving, kindest, truest self. "Obeying" oneself in that sense is arguably the most unadulterated freedom as much as it is "obedience." One obeys no external command or code, no fear. And on such a path one one can receive intimations of a non-dictatorial God.

On the other hand obedience to "Allah" as described in the Qur'an is hard to distinguish from obedience to a monstrous tyrant who continually threatens with the worst imaginable punishments, yet also endlessly and pretentiously proclaims his own "tremendous mercy" and "compassion," as though to cover the ugly embarrassment of dominating by terror, and to convince the dazed and cowed it is not only necessary, but perhaps even sensible, to give in. It is the "good cop/bad cop" routine writ large, a whipsawing of the psyche between supposed friend and terrorizing foe, the former serving to create the trust that the latter then finds defenseless enough to shock into submission.

Islam seems like the almost perfect realization of Nicholas Baerdaev's idea that human beings tend to falsely conceive God after the image of earthly dictators.

If one obeys one's best self, however, one approaches God from within, one polishes the free divine inner spark that can become one with God or even a son of God, an heir to the kingdom and not, as Islam would have it, merely a slave whose main duty is to 'submit'.

Posted by: www.islamquest.blogspot.com at March 29, 2006 10:12 AM

If Abdul Rahman -- who may be right now in the Italian Embassy in Kabul -- is to be kept alive, he will need the kind of protection that the journalist Magdi Allam receives in Italy, Geert Wilders and Ayaan Hirsi Ali in Holland, and others, such as Salman Rushdie, who after years of being guarded by the British government, apparently has decided, in this country, to forego such protection. All this adds up.

It is illogical for Italy to admit Abdul Rahman and simultaneously to admit, or permit to remain among its many illegal aliens, those who would, if they could, kill Abdul Rahman, vandalize the Pieta, destroy the madonnas in the Uffizi, and undo the laws, customs, manners, undersandings, including all those legal rights that have been slowly achieved over centuries of slow development in Europe (and its American cousin, and which came out of not only the English/Scottish Englightenment and before it the French Enlightenment (Les Lumieres), and before that the Dutch Enlightenment, but before all those turning on of the lights, in rooms that were never quite so dark as once thought, with the new view of Man that arises from the Renaissance in Italy (now that universities subsume the "Renaissance" within the dry chronological phrase "Early Modern" it's a little harder to locate, but there it is).

Neither Italy, nor any other country, should be admitting real refugees from the murderous threats of adherents of a certain belief-system, in order to prevent them from being persecuted or killed, and at the same time admit those who are the adherents of that belief-system. The duty of a government, its primary duty, is to protect. Now that the governments of the Infidel world have had occasion, and more than occasion, to learn about the contents of Islam, and the beliefs and attitudes to which those contents (Qur'an, Hadith, Sira) naturally give rise (some manage to avoid what it "naturally" gives rise to -- but so what? Exceptions, you know, and the rule?), it is more than disquieting to continue to admit those whom, it is not irrational to believe, are not capable of whole-heartedly embracing, not a particular economic system, but to a non-Muslim natio-state, developed in a way that flatly contradicts the requirements that Islam places on its Believers, with its putting individual rights at the top of the hierarchy of political values, and which encourages other things, including free and skeptical inquiry, antipathetic, and antithetical to, the letter and spirit of Islam.

It makes little sense, if one realizes this, to give asylum to Abdul Rahman and then welcome into your midst, as well, those who, if they had their way, would not permit Abdul Rahman to live, or at least, would wish to construct a systme where such an exercise of freedom of conscience would be severely curtailed.

You cannot have Magdi Allam and Abdul Rahman, and at the same time, continue to allow large numbers of those who are very likely to support those who would harm either or both.

Posted by: Hugh at March 29, 2006 10:48 AM

Hugh: to quote Dorothy Leigh Sayers, you remind me of the steward who said "you cannot be sick here." Alas, we can and we do. For any amount of reasons, the desire to admit only virtuous victims of the Abdel Rahman kind breaks down in reality. First, because it is impossible to insure the good will of anyone who is truly escaping a truly revolting tyranny. In the nineteen-thirties, the United States admitted to its shores both Thomas Mann, who had developped late but bravely a genuine belief in democracy, and Berthold Brecht, a sworn Communist intriguer who had no more love for American government than for Hitler. Questions of the "are you now or have you ever been" kind are the only barrier that can be raised against such guests, and they are easily turned by anyone willing to lie a little. Second, we are not like our enemies. We do not want to see people turned over to people who would certainly torture and murder them. Third and most important, control is a bitch. A man lands on the fishing docks at Marsala or Salerno or Leghorn, ambles off and vanishes among the crowds. Who is to know whether he is a rather swarthy Italian or Frenchman, a legitimate immigrant coming home, or a clandestine migrant? The seas around Italy are very narrow, and they have always been an open highway rather than an obstacle. With the best will in the world, they cannot be effectively closed off. (Indeed, it works both ways - Tunisia, in particular, has had for over a century a large Italian community, the dominant European presence there, and more Tunisians today speak Italian than French.)

I do not say this to mean surrender: quite the contrary. I say this to mean that public order must be enforced by all means; that, if we cannot altogether stop the seeping of illegal immigrants into our territory, we can and must get rid of them when we find them; and that in all our security considerations, we must assume the presence of a Fifth Column on our shores - as, indeed, the Italian security forces already do - and act accordingly. But do not condemn us for not being able to keep out the ocean with a bucket with a hole in it.

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 11:08 AM

Paolo;
I hope and pray that what you say is true. But you bring up a point that is not to be ignored. Bro. Rahman should be able to live his life without needing 24/7 protection. The British may have fumbled the ball with Theo Van Gogh (or was it the Neatherlands that did?) But living in Italy is still too close too Islamofecesland to me. I'm not saying that the Italian government can't do the job, it's just that the picture of a dead Aldo still sits in my mind. But then the Italian army did rescue General Dozier from the Italian Red Army terrorists. You guys have got balls!!! Bro Rahman just may be in the right country after all. Your Prime Minister Berlusconi is a couragegous man.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at March 29, 2006 11:11 AM

Ironman: the Italian police and investigating magistrates are good for the same reason why the Israeli Army is good - because they had to learn on the battlefield, fighting big-time enemies such as the Mafia, terrorists of all stripes (including our old Palestinian friends), and, from time to time, corrupt politicians and businessmen. And while I do not want to sound like I am always bad-mouthing England (there is nothing like spending the day with an intelligent English friend, with the whole ancient tradition of manners and mutual respect that they unconsciously carry within them), policing is just about the thing they do worst. Italian cops may not be the world's most tactful or smooth, but, give or take the odd bad apple you get everywhere, they have been getting the job done, or dying trying, for decades, and I have the highest respect for them. (I have to declare an interest; one of my cousins is thinking of joining the Carabinieri, as many of his relatives have.)

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 11:42 AM

Oh, and Ironman, it was in the Netherlands that Theo van Gogh, a Dutchman, died. But I have no doubt that if it had happened in Britain, not only would the local cops have made an even worse hash of it, but the media would have covered it with a conspiracy of silence and you would probably not have heard about it at all.

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 11:45 AM

anyone....anyone....anywhere... who believes Rahman should be punished (in any way, shape or form) for converting from islam to christianity is a mortal threat to you, your family, and your heirs.

such people need to be dealt with ruthlessly.

Posted by: omvi at March 29, 2006 11:45 AM

OOOOOh it feels good to be back.

Just thought I would post this link to a very interseting article written by Mr. Cohen at the Washington Post. It appears not everyone is blind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/27/AR2006032701299.html

The mountain is going to bury that louse mohamed.

SHUNKLEASH (PBUH)

Posted by: Shunkleash at March 29, 2006 12:13 PM

Breaking News:

Abdul Rahman has arrived in Italy.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-asia/2006/mar/29/032900240.html

Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2006 12:27 PM

I'm laughing. Laughing at people like Naseem and other Muslims who come here to defend their "faith".

I'm laughing at the blindingly clear fact that they have no recourse against truth. I'm laughing at their dead silence and lack of input. Suddenly the truth comes out and these people have no comment?

People who are guilty also have no comment.

TRUTH: Islam and Muslims murder those who abandon, denounce or shame Islam as is ordered by "allah" (imaginary deity). Apparently life is cheap and disposable in Islam...I'm shocked! Any Muslim care to tell me or anyone else here that we're wrong?

Can't bullshit your way out of truth this time. The lights are on and the roaches are haulin' ass back into the ignorant dark.

BTW omvi - if we are to deal with Muslims ruthlessly - shame them ruthlessly without mercy. It's bloodless and it forces them to actually think for themselves for a change.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at March 29, 2006 12:30 PM

The problem has not be dealt with. One man has been saved (albeit temporarily), but the issue of this one man has led to a virtual pogrom upon all Christians in Afghanistan. As bad as it was before, it has multiplied many times over.

Unfortunately, there is no solution apart from convincing the 1-point-something billion muslims in the world that former muslims who acknowledge the call of God's Holy Spirit, and become followers of Christ are no threat to them. In order to do that, the 1-point-billion muslims in the world have to be convinced that their religion is a bigger, better, more powerful one than Christianity, and that their god is bigger, better, and more powerful than the Christian's.

So far, their actions have convinced me that one man's conversion is a terrible threat to the stability of their religion, and that their god's honor is at stake because of it. Their simple-minded, blind adherence to their "juridprudence" be damned. If the tiny number of people who couragously abandon Islam is such a threat to them, that they must be rounded up like common criminals, then that in-and-of-itself proves that the adherents of Islam are insecure with their faith.

They do not believe that their god's numerous laws and rules are good enough to keep their religion whole and perfect, and that they must renew their faith in their god by killing innocent, couragous men and women, then they need to examine their "faith" in their god. It is hardly anything approaching something perfect from an almighty being if killing and bloodthristy threats are their ONLY reply to those who abandon their religion.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 29, 2006 1:10 PM

Correction:

"IF they do not believe that their god's numerous laws and rules are good enough to keep their religion whole and perfect, and that they must renew their faith in their god by killing innocent, couragous men and women, then they need to examine their "faith" in their god."

Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 29, 2006 1:16 PM

"the Italian police and investigating magistrates are good... fighting big-time enemies such as the Mafia, terrorists of all stripes (including our old Palestinian friends), and, from time to time, corrupt politicians and businessmen."
-- from a posting above

One outstanding example of an anti-Mafia and anti-Camorra crusader who also early understood the danger of Muslim terrorism, especially of the PLO: Pierluigi Vigna.

Posted by: Hugh at March 29, 2006 1:25 PM

Excellent observations from Islamquest.blog regarding the iniquities of obedience and submission to an external authority.
This is the core of evil in this world and it was most explicitly and honestly expressed by none other than Hitler himself, who repeatedly lambasted the Germans with the message that they were duty bound to obey and submit their will to authority and that this should be their raison-d'etre. This is the essence of fascism and totalitarian ideology---surrender your will to the collective, give up your individual self and all free thought and perception. Question nothing of the dogma. Or die.

In the meantime, as consolation we can enjoy the fact that everytime we eat a croissant you are celebrating the defeat of the Ottoman Turks outside Vienna in 1683. Marie Antoinette commissioned a Viennese baker to make a pastry in the shape of a Turkish crescent to celebrate the victory.
I wonder how many Muslims eat croissants.

Posted by: samson at March 29, 2006 1:31 PM

"In the meantime, as consolation we can enjoy the fact that everytime we eat a croissant you are celebrating the defeat of the Ottoman Turks outside Vienna in 1683."

I had no idea thats where they came from. I am going to have to make it a point to eat a croissant from time to time.

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at March 29, 2006 1:55 PM

Hey Paolo;
You guys take good care of Bro. Rahman. the ball is in your law enforcement court. Do the world proud.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at March 29, 2006 2:48 PM

We kept Magdi Allam safe for a few years now. Nobody can say what will happen from one minute to the next, but my country has some experience in this sort of thing.

Anyway, with due respect for the man's faith and courage, he is, let us remember, a side issue. There are hundreds, possibly thousands, of people in his condition in Afghanistan alone; millions across the Muslim world. We should not only save one and forget the rest, but force it down the throats of all Muslims that there really must be no compulsion in religion. Even if we have to use compulsion.

As Alistair Cooke once paraphrased a U.S. Marine Corps order: "The Marine Corps is one place in America where, black or white, you are recruited to become an equal. And if you are not, by God, we'll break you."

Posted by: Paolo at March 29, 2006 3:00 PM

Paolo posted: But I have no doubt that if it had happened in Britain, not only would the local cops have made an even worse hash of it, but the media would have covered it with a conspiracy of silence and you would probably not have heard about it at all.

The British police are a laugh. Even when it comes to fighting crime, they have publicly stated that DO NOT DO CRIME, unless it is murder or something like that.

As for investigating islamic terrorism and that sort of thing, they are worse then useless.

Posted by: DP111 at March 29, 2006 5:53 PM

Don't throw mud at Europe .....Mr. Ghost.......

when the US of A has a shakey record on many

things and this is not a time to be throwing mud

it"s time to be working together to get rid of

jihad

Posted by: marilyn at March 29, 2006 6:47 PM

Samson said:

In the meantime, as consolation we can enjoy the fact that everytime we eat a croissant you are celebrating the defeat of the Ottoman Turks...

Neat bit of info. And thank you for the compliment to Islam Quest.

- Omar

Posted by: www.islamquest.blogspot.com at March 29, 2006 10:11 PM

To islamquest.blog,

Anyone who has a little bit of real knowledge of Islam should know that the word islam means "submission". This is to be distinguished from Salam meaning peace (they have the same consonants, but come two different root words). The entire religion of Islam is built on submission to Allah. Muhammad used to send letters to the rulers around him, and he always ends with "Aslem, Taslam" meaning "Surrender and you will be saved".

The highest position of man, according to Islam, is to be a slave (abd) of Allah. And based on that, one also had to obey his messengers, the prime of which is Muhammad. This also leads to the extreme fatalism of Muslims ... the belief in Qadr ... the absolute power and will of Allah.... hence predestination. This entire system is built around Muhammad ... supposedly the prime example of all humans. Therefore, anyone wanting to understand Islam and the Muslims must undersand Muhammad. Anyone wanting to understand Jihad needs to look what he has done.

But despite being a slave as a Muslim, Islam allows enslavement of others, and also the treating of those under their protection as dhimmis.

Posted by: yaqub at March 30, 2006 2:00 AM

yaqub wrote:

"The highest position of man, according to Islam, is to be a slave (abd) of Allah.

and also:

"But despite being a slave as a Muslim, Islam allows enslavement of others, and also the treating of those under their protection as dhimmis."

Is it just me, or is there a biting irony in this? On one hand, to be "a slave to allah" puts one on the highest rung of the ladder, but, on the other, to be a slave to "a slave to allah" is to be on the lowest.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 8:35 PM