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Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the advantages of supporting an independent Kurdistan:
Kurdistan, as a place and not as an idea, could, by its mere existence, if given a little boost (a boost, not boots on the ground -- they are different things), do a good deal of damage to the interests of both Syria and Iran.Syria is a hideous place with a hideous regime. One wishes to preserve the Alawite regime, under different and much more chastened management, only because the alternative is a regime of "real" Sunni Muslims. Everyone in Syria, though apparently few in the Infidel world, knows what that would mean for the Christians of Syria, and of Lebanon. Only the Alawites, out of their own self-interest and terror at what would happen if they lost control, can keep a lid on the real Muslims, the non-Miriam-worshipping Muslims who, if they could, would massacre as many people as they could in the Alawite villages, and among the Christians the Alawites protect. Syria is a country where the government shuts down -- the government! -- on Christmas Day.
Why would an independent Kurdistan help to weaken Syria? Because there are many Kurds in Syria who do not like the way they have been treated, and would be encouraged by the mere existence of an independent Kurdistan. And they would be even more encouraged if the American government wished to funnel military aid to Kurdistan, and through Kurdistan to Kurds in Syria and Iran, and at the same time to remove any threat of Syrian bombing by removing, in one fell swoop, Syria's air force. The Israelis, when they last encountered Syrian planes, destroyed 82 at one go, with no loss of any Israeli plane. One suspects that the Americans will be able to perform at a similar level of competence.
And then there is the Islamic Republic of Iran. Unlike some in Washington, who meet those unrepresentative Iranians and are quick to believe all kinds of things that they wish to believe, the Iranian dictatorship is not on the verge of collapse. But it can be weakened, and weakened most effectively by exploiting the one main thing to know about Iran: ethnic Persians make up about 50% of the country; Azeris make up one-third (Azeris as in "Azerbaijan," as in Soviet-occupied "northern Iran" after World War II), and Baluchis, Kurds, and ethnic Arabs (in the oil-bearing region) the rest. There is already low-level unrest here and there. Appeals to Muslim solidarity do not always work, and especially do not work where there is a long history of government from Tehran indifferent to the desires of non-Persians. This is what the rulers of the Islamic Republic fear most -- and because they fear it, some of them have concluded that they now have a stake in dampening unrest within Iraq, and a stake in preventing a free Kurdistan (which would inspire the Kurds in Iran -- and do more than inspire them). In other words, what the Islamic Republic of Iran now fears is a "civil war" in Iraq, just the way, for different reasons, the Sunni Arabs outside Iraq fear such a "civil war."What maddens is that the "civil war" that could do such damage to the interests of the two main beneficiaries of the removal of Saddam Hussein, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the (Wahhabi) Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, is being prevented or delayed almost entirely by the presence of American troops, and by naive American attempts at directing this or that while failing so completely to relate the fissures within Iraq to the larger picture of the menace presented by the Jihad.
Pope wrote Peri Bathous, or, The Art of Sinking in Poetry.
There is another art, not as high, but even more necessary at this point in history if the poetry of Pope, and everything else that has been left as a legacy in the Western world, survives and continues to be added to. That is the art of how to deal with the many different levels and instruments of Jihad. It involves how to deal with the many different levels of ignorance or denial among Infidels, and how to inflict the most damage, of the right kind, the kind that will help to weaken Islam in the most effective, and likely least expensive way. That way would be to play upon the natural divisions and resentments and animosities within Dar al-Islam. This would allow intelligent people who through no fault of their own were born into Islam to ponder what it is about this belief-system, with its abhorrence of free and skeptical inquiry, its limits on artistic expression, its inshallah-fatalism, its support for The Ruler as long as the Ruler is considered to be a Muslim, that makes Islam itself the cause of the political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral failures of Muslim states and polities.
And there is one more audience. The spectacle of internecine strife among Muslims will be instructive for Infidels. It could take place in Iraq but will draw in men, money, and materiel from both Sunnis and Shi'a outside Iraq, and therefore have consequences (good for Infidels, bad for Muslims) in Lebanon, and Pakistan, in eastern Saudi Arabia and Bahrain and Yemen. It will hurry along the enlightenment of those who are taking their sweet time in discovering what the Jihad is really all about. And who can blame them, given the way that an informal, but most effective withal, Islamintern International has placed its members in the U.N. bureaucracy, its apologists in the E.U. bureaucracy, its willing collaborators in the press, radio, and television of much of Western Europe, in those areas that include coverage of Islam and the Middle East, and finally, have managed, as in this country with the members of MESA Nostra, to control the access to study of Islam to those who are apologists rather than students of the subject.
The Iran-Iraq War tied two ruthless regimes up for eight years. From the Infidel point of view, it should have gone on forever. There is another chance. The Bush Administration, having still failed to grasp the scope of the problem and the nature of the problem posed by the Jihad and its various instruments (hardly limited to terrorism), is obstinate in its titanic -- in every sense -- efforts. It needs to be forced, through political pressure, to withdraw from Iraq, to end the misallocation of resources, the colossal sums being spent that could so much better be applied to energy projects. It needs to be forced to give to small-scale efforts, as in Kurdistan, a little "equalizer" (as the Colt .45 was once known) to the side that we wish to prevail, but only from afar.
Telemachy -- fighting from afar. And Telemachus was the son of Odysseus. Wily Odysseus. All this nonsense, this hallucinatory nonsense, about how "everyone loves freedom" and how we "are going to win the war on terror" through "our success in Iraq" which will take care of the "terrorists" forever (there is no "forever" that will end Jihad -- containment, and reduction in the size of the threat, is another matter) -- this has to stop. Events will cause it to stop, because in the next presidential election only someone who promises to remove our troops, right away, from Iraq, can conceivably win But the American government should not wait that long. The silence of the Democratic lambs, who are capable, apparently, of breaking that silence only in order to bleat all the wrong kinds of criticism of Bush, rather than the unanswerable, and therefore deadly, kind that is offered here -- needs to change.
It only takes one or two intelligent people. They must exist. Where are they? And the same is true of the Republicans, whose misplaced loyalty to a foolish and wasteful policy could do great damage to their own political survival.
A big failure all way round.
There already exists, as noted above, "The Art of Sinking in Poetry."
Practitioners of geopolitics should look at all the advantages an independent Kurdistan could bring -- not least as an inspiration to non-Muslim Arabs everywhere, who might begin to focus on Islam as the vehicle of Arab cultural and linguistic and political imperialism. They might begin to see Islam -- correctly, despite its universalist pretensions -- as the Arab national religion. This could begin to reduce its appeal to the 3/4 of the world's Muslims who are not Arab.
And that new geopolitics, of selectively sinking this or that threatening ship of state, or even wandering coastal barks, laden with explosives, that have made their way along the shores, or even into the waterways, of the Lands of the Infidels (as Muslims call them), is perhaps a harder art, a colder craft.
Let's call it "The Art of Sinking in Geopolitics."
Posted by Robert at March 30, 2006 7:53 AM
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Only the Alawites … can keep a lid on the real Muslims
Posted by Robert at 07:53 AM
Isn’t there somebody called God Almighty? In the EXPRESS dated March 30, 2006 under page 2, we find:
===
Resustication
A Lack of Airbags Saved His Life
A Hampshire, England man crashed his car into a tree after suffering a heart attack while driving – but the impact of the steering wheel on his chest restarted his heart, the Telegraph reported.
… said Dr. John Morgan, who treated Mann, “Had he not hit the steering wheel then he would be dead.”
===
I think this a message from God Almighty to all of us that He exists and that He is active. So, if ever any power can keep a lid on real Muslims, that power is God Almighty only and not the Alawites.
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at March 30, 2006 8:35 AM
Mohideen, in all seriousness, exactly which God are you talking about? The bloodthirsty violence and intolerance inspiring Allah or one of the the more pacifist nonMuslim ones?
Any god whose prophet justifies violence towards nonMuslims would hardly be likely to restart a nonMuslim's heart out of divine benevolence.
I think that resurrecting a jihadic beheading victim would impress me a little more as evidence of his prowess and care. In fact, preventing such horrors would do it even more.
BTW persons who have cardiac arrythmias of certain kinds can often have their hearts restarted by a concussive impact to the sternum and such a person falling onto the ground and hitting his chest could theoretically do it and it has been noticed to have PROBABLY happened long before this event.
However, unless you had him on a holter monitor at the time of the incident you cannot even prove that his heart stopped let alone restarted as a "heart attack" can induce a faint from low blood pressure also. So supposition only.
Sorry about that!!
Posted by: Zathras at March 30, 2006 9:03 AM
I'm not sure that the lesson to be drawn from the story of the motorist who was suffering a heart attack but, not having air bags, was revived by the action of his steering wheel. The poster above finds the Hand of Allah at work in this, which presumably means that nothing men do really matters. A wonderful example -- a museum-piece -- of the inshallah-fatalism that explains so many of the Islamic world's follies and failures, not least its economic incapacity, despite being the recipient of the largest transfer of wealth (all of it unearned) in human history.
Can we draw any other conceivable conclusions from the automobile accident? Here are a few:
1. Don't wear airbags because then you won't hit the steering wheel which can revive you if you are having a heart attack.
2. Don't bother carrying around a bottle of aspirin to swallow in case you feel chest pains, but do remember to strap a large steering wheel, obtained from a junkyard, and attached to a pole, and now strapped to your chest, like a knapsack, so that in case of a heart attack, you will fall onto it and, with it wedged between you and the floor (against which the pole is stuck) you will be up and about and running the Boston Marathon in no time.
3. Do remember to forget to strap yourself in when you drive because if you do so, then in case you are having a heart attack, you will not fall on th steering wheel and receive its famous "shove of life."
4. If you don't drive, but walk from point A to point B, change your ways. Learn to drive, buy a car and make sure you use that car even for the shortest of trips. For only thus can you be assured of the close proximity, in case of heawrt attacks, of that salvific steering-wheel. Of course, one alternatve is as described in #2 above.
There are so many lessons to be drawn from the newspaper item above, when one is in a mood grammatical or otherwise of ineluctable modality. But that should be enough.
On the other hand, it could be that Mohiddeen Ibramsha above is right. When Allah wants you to be saved, not harmed, for not having airbags, he --Allah -- will do so.
This message brought to you by Allah in conjunction with the American Automobile Council on Sensible Safety, which has been working for decades to make sure that silly things like airbags and seatbelts never get between you and the steering wheel, the wheel which not only steers your car but, if used in a conscientiously-applied program of inadvertent resuscitation can -- though only when Allah wills it, and Allah knows best -- save your life.
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 9:17 AM
that power is God Almighty only and not the Alawites.
Perhaps it is God Almighty with a bit of help from the Alawites. God Almighty using the Alawites or the lack of airbag to work His will in a mysterious way.
Not death or umgawa, in the words of the old joke, but death by umgawa. Not God or the Alawites, but God through the Alawites.
at March 30, 2006 9:32 AM
On the other hand, it could be that Mohiddeen Ibramsha above is right. When Allah wants you to be saved, … he --Allah -- will do so.
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 09:17 AM
Thanks, Hugh!
I do not know about other scriptures, but I know the following Tradition:
http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=angel+womb+death+time&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all
===
Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(as regards your creation), every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days. Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into his body. So a man may do deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and so he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and enters Paradise. Similarly, a person may do deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise, so much so that there is only the distance of a cubit between him and it, and then what has been written (by the angel) surpasses, and he starts doing deeds of the people of the (Hell) Fire and enters the (Hell) Fire." (Book #55, Hadith #549) (Sahih Bukhari)
===
God Almighty having got the time of death of each one of us written while we were in the wombs protects us until that time of death. Can someone inform us from other religions?
at March 30, 2006 9:42 AM
God Almighty having got the time of death of each one of us written while we were in the wombs protects us until that time of death.
In "Blackadder", Baldrick scratches his name on a bullet, because "somewhere there's a bullet with your name on it" — and if he owns it himself, then he cannot be shot by it.
Posted by: Interested at March 30, 2006 9:45 AM
How fascinating. Is Mr. Ibramsha a muslim "Calvinist", and the suicide bomber a muslim "Arminian"?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at March 30, 2006 10:06 AM
"....every one of you is collected in the womb of his mother for the first forty days, and then he becomes a clot for an other forty days, and then a piece of flesh for an other forty days"
Let's see, according to that info, it takes 120 days from conception until birth.....that's 4 months. Interesting and oh, so incorrect.
"....Then Allah sends an angel to write four words: He writes his deeds, time of his death, means of his livelihood, and whether he will be wretched or blessed (in religion)."
Telling someone his livelihood sounds like communism. And how does one discover his god-given livelihood? I prayed, and I am a homicide bomber now? Or better yet, does that statement explain why there has been no inventions or discoveries from the muslim world?
Why pray at all if your religiosity has been preordained? What's the use?
Why live at all? Oh, THAT explains it!!!
Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at March 30, 2006 10:23 AM
Far be it for me to argue the self-evidence of God's sovereignty except to say to Mohideen Ibramsha "and your point is...?"
Back to Hugh's excellent article.
We are at a point in our nation's history when we are being besieged on all sides and we simply must begin to think in a more Machiavellian manner, despite our President and Secretary of State (as well as leaders in the UK and Europe) scolding us not to.
Our bright city on the hill is becoming nothing more than a lure for robbers skulking in the dark who seek not to emulate our success, but to pillage and destroy it. Throwing them bones and platitudes won't solve this any more than squandering our resources in Iraq will change the Muslim world.
Cold-eyed realism of the kind our statesmen once possessed is indispensable if we are to survive the century. Fitzgerald provides that realism. The art of sinking...how beautiful and how practical too.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 30, 2006 10:30 AM
Inadvertently, of course, in quoting me with unwonted gratitude Mr. Mohideen Ibramsha left out the part about the airbags. The airbags were essential to my statement.
Please correct so that quote reads as follows:
"On the other hand, it could be that Mohiddeen Ibramsha above is right. When Allah wants you to be saved, not harmed, for not having airbags, he --Allah -- will do so.
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 10:44 AM
I thought that the Kurds were Islamic mentalists of a high order, and the reason the West never really supported their cause properly was because they were afraid of another Islamic mentalist state supporting terrorists.
Posted by: SM at March 30, 2006 11:25 AM
What's a "mentalist"? Someone who favors mints? I certainly do. Denver is my favorite, followed closely by Philadelphia.
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 11:36 AM
Is Mr. Ibramsha a muslim "Calvinist", and the suicide bomber a muslim "Arminian"?
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at March 30, 2006 10:06 AM
I just now visited http://www.mslick.com/tulip.htm and http://www.spreadinglight.com/theology/arminian.html to understand ‘calvinist’ and ‘armanian.’ A Muslim is neither.
Since the time of death is pre-ordained a Muslim should not commit suicide; should not take a life unless by law. An apostate must be killed and the like.
Since the means of livelihood is pre-ordained, a Muslim does not earn unapproved wealth: earning through interest is forbidden.
As regards his being wretched or blessed, it is a blessing for two groups of people. It is indeed a blessing for the one who lives a wretched life but does the correct deeds towards the end and enters Paradise. As regards the blessing of one who leads a blessed life but does an act towards the end to land in Hell, see “3. Is Allah unjust?” in http://spaces.msn.com/deentech/
at March 30, 2006 11:40 AM
Inadvertently, … Mr. Mohideen Ibramsha left out the part about the airbags. The airbags were essential to my statement.
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 10:44 AM
Hugh, my thanks are due again.
I just used a jihadwatch-coin. Jihadwatch mutilates Islam and claims that Islam is a religion that advocates violence, whereas Islam advocates the strict punishment of the guilty so that everyone can live in peace. Jihad is to fight the oppressor. Of course, which oppressor has accepted that he / she is an oppressor?
at March 30, 2006 11:48 AM
How do we "oppress"? By opposing changes in our own laws, customs, manners, understandings? By not wishing to admit into our midst people who are taught that the universe is divided between Believers and Infidels, and one should "not take Jews and Christians as friends" and should "smite the Unbelievers" (fill up the page with Qur'anic passages and stories from the Hadith that repeat this theme), since we are Infidels and they Believers, and presumably they will continue to believe what they have been taught, and taught, and taught, to believe?
That is the "oppression"? Around the world, from southern Sudan to Bangladesh to Indonesia, not forgetting Egypt (those Copts), nor Iraq (those Assyrian Christians), nor Turkey (those now buried Armenians and Greeks), nor Israel (still fighting the Lesser Jihad without daring to recognize it, or name it properly), to France, England, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Holland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, where the Infidels are now enduring lives that are far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than they would be without the large-scale presence of Muslims -- who exactly is doing the "oppressing"? Is it all that free housing and free health care and free education, all lavished upon Muslims by the Infidel taxpayers and their compliant and appeasing governments, that is what "oppresses"? Is that it?
Is the "oppression" from the oligopolistic rents charged by OPEC oil states, 10 of the 11 Muslim or controllled by Muslims, that is part of that "oppression" - the largest transfer of wealth in human history, which in the past one-third of a century has amounted to $10 trillion. Is that what is "oppressing" Muslims? Or is the failure of Infidel states to completely roll over and play dead -- is that what is so intolerable?
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 11:54 AM
Let's see, according to that info, it takes 120 days from conception until birth.....that's 4 months. Interesting and oh, so incorrect.
Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at March 30, 2006 10:23 AM
Please see “2. Abortion in Islam,” in http://spaces.msn.com/deentech/ Abortion is permissible until 120 days of conception, and is a murder beyond that day. So, there is nothing incorrect. The Tradition does not say that the baby is born on the 120th day of conception.
at March 30, 2006 11:56 AM
How do we "oppress"?
Posted by: Hugh at March 30, 2006 11:54 AM
It is our understanding that the 9/11 was a black-op. Please see http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/about.html for details. A sample quote:
===
9-11 Research critically examines the official government explanation of the attack and concludes that many of its key assertions are impossible. We do not pretend to know exactly how the attack was carried out or exactly who the perpetrators are, but there are plausible scenarios of how the attack could have been executed by insiders. (See our Frequently Asked Questions.)
If the attack was indeed a "black-op", then we can expect that the operatives will have hidden their identities behind layer upon layer of cover story. Only a genuine investigation with meaningful powers will be able to peel away the layers of deception to expose the true perpetrators. We hope to facilitate such an investigation by first exposing the falsity of the outermost cover story: the official myth of 9/11/01.
===
Based on that traumatic event, the US Government has unleashed a reign of terror in Afghanistan and Iraq. That is the oppression from this land. The earlier the US troops are withdrawn from these lands, the better.
at March 30, 2006 12:11 PM
There is no excuse and no justification for the otherwise intelligent and sensible posters above to be engaging this Mohideen character in conversation as though he were a rational human being.
Posted by: Television at March 30, 2006 12:18 PM
I agree with Television. All he means to do is to waste otherwise valuable time engaging in "debate" with a boob. Let this dense individual post his nonsense, and ignore it. It is oh, so ignorable.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 12:36 PM
Posted by: Television at March 30, 2006 12:18 PM
Posted by: patriot2 at March 30, 2006 12:26 PM
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 12:36 PM
Three less than 800,000 is large enough!
at March 30, 2006 12:41 PM
(the sound of crickets chirping...)
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 12:55 PM
It is "our" understanding that the 9/11 was a black-op
"We" do not pretend to know exactly how the attack was carried out or exactly who the perpetrators are, but there are plausible scenarios of how the attack could have been executed by insiders.
"We" hope to facilitate such an investigation by first exposing the falsity of the outermost cover story: the official myth of 9/11/01.
You got a mouse in your pocket? It should be "my", "I" and "I" respectively
at March 30, 2006 1:00 PM
Mohideen Ibramsha seems to believe that everything that happens is God's will, but isn't that the same in reality as saying nothing is God's will, or God is dead? For the phrase "God's will" to have any meaning it implies there must be things that happen that are not God's will.
obviously, I'm behind the discussion in my posts.. I have a cup of tea and by the time I go to hit preview there are twelve more to deal with.
Maybe I should switch to coffee.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 30, 2006 1:09 PM
"We" do not pretend to …
"We" hope to facilitate…
You got a mouse in your pocket? It should be "my", "I" and "I" respectively
Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at March 30, 2006 01:00 PM
The “We” are quotes from http://911research.wtc7.net/re911/about.html and not our statement.
The “We” and “our” are inclusive, including the reader. It is standard practice in technical writing.
at March 30, 2006 1:13 PM
Rebecca JW said:
"For the phrase "God's will" to have any meaning it implies there must be things that happen that are not God's will."
...like the Six-Day War. allah must have been just a spectator that week.
at March 30, 2006 1:15 PM
Mohideen Ibramsha seems to believe that everything that happens is God's will
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 30, 2006 01:09 PM
The Tradition I quoted earlier indicates just four things to be by God’s will. Every Muslim knows that God Almighty has indeed given freedom of action to His creation. That is why God Almighty warns of punishment in Hell for the wrongdoers and rewards in Paradise to those who believe.
at March 30, 2006 1:18 PM
That is why God Almighty warns of punishment in Hell for the wrongdoers and rewards in Paradise to those who believe.
Rewards and punishments - what a goddamn primitive mind.
Posted by: Yojimbo at March 30, 2006 1:23 PM
allah must have been just a spectator that week.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 01:15 PM
The life in this earth is a fight between mankind and devilkind. God Almighty does not take sides. God Almighty rewards and punishes in the Hereafter. When oppression crosses limits, God Almighty intervenes in this earth also.
As regards the Six – Day War it is our understanding that until and unless the Muslims develop their own weapons systems, such wars are bound to repeat.
at March 30, 2006 1:23 PM
1967-Gamal Abdel Nasser said:
"God-willing, we'll destroy Israel THIS time!"
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 1:24 PM
"God Almighty does not take sides."
Of course he doesn't, but people can. People can be on the side of God, and prevail according to his precepts and commandments. As followers of this islamic god and his precepts, success would follow accordingly. Failure as a result of being faithful must be terribly frustrating.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 1:30 PM
Oh I see it's technical.
Well, it’s OUR opinion that's a load of garbage and WE think that you (all) must be insane for giving that kind of crap any thought at all.
Technically speaking of course.
at March 30, 2006 1:31 PM
A theological note: criticizing Islam for its "inshallah fatalism" is a "don't go there girlfriend" criticism, since such fatalism can be (more or less) found in Christian doctrine here and there, from (among many others) Tertullian to Augustine to Calvin and, to a great extent, in Luther. Let's not waste our time criticizing Islam for peripheral flaws that can be found elsewhere in non-Muslim sources. The more problematic features of Islamic theology revolve around those that explain why Muslims are dangerous and hostile to human rights. A person who believes in religious fatalism could also be innocuous and law-abiding. The more problematic features of Islamic theology are, rather, those that depend upon and radiate out from its immanentization (and consequent politicization and militarization) of eschatology.
The Muslim mind (to the extent that it is attuning itself in fidelity to the Koran) cannot tolerate the existential tension between this life and the next which must be abided in patience and submission to the mystery of not knowing, to the mystery of faith, to the difficult gift of freedom. The Muslim mind imagines it can abrogate this tension, and finds its release of the anxiety this tension brings in a certitude that is fused with this-worldly actions -- actions that are energized by the presence of constructed Enemies who threaten that certitude in a variety of ways. In fighting their Enemy, Muslims are experiencing psychological and physical release from the tension of existence. The only catch is that the tension of existence cannot really be released in this life: consequently, the Muslim mind gets caught in a never-ending spiral of "struggle" against the Enemy, ultimately having to literally kill the Tension as it keeps popping up all around them in the form of actual human beings whose mere existence is, in effect, the Cosmos resisting the Muslim's continual attempts to transfigure reality into the eschaton.
Muslims have shown throughout history that they easily get intoxicated with the obsession to stamp out the Tension through killing human beings to such an extent that this spirals into orgies of mass slaughter. Similarly, the mass slaughters of the Nazis and the Soviet, Chinese and Vietnamese Communists were attempts to literally mass-murder the Reality that was recalcitrant to their Dream-Reality.
Posted by: Television at March 30, 2006 1:32 PM
Television,
I'm afraid the question of whether God is living as in life, spontaneous creation, that which animates matter, is completely germane and not a side show at all. Is God life? Or is God a dead set of laws laid down 14 Centuries ago? And if God's will is differentiated from "not God's will" only by these dead (as in never-changing)laws, then what is God? Can God be differentiated from "the world" or something (or everything) in the material world or not?
Islamic laws pertain only to the material world, and in my opinion the more any Church claims divine authority over matters of a material nature, they also err.
Other than my initial criticism of your initial criticism, I thought what you said was very good.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 30, 2006 2:32 PM
"Since the time of death is pre-ordained a Muslim should not commit suicide; should not take a life unless by law. An apostate must be killed and the like."
-Mohideen Ibramsha at March 30, 2006 11:40 AM
Just how many "apostates" have you killed, tough guy?
"earning through interest is forbidden."
So, you don't have a bank account or investments?
Posted by: Eisenhund at March 30, 2006 6:49 PM
The Mothership is calling:
"Muslims, return to the moon, immediately!"
There is a Big Black Rock on the dark side.
It needs you.
Start converting Iranian ICBM's to rocket ships now!
Zero-G Muslims, unite!
Your weightless arguments will fit perfectly in the interstellar void.
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 30, 2006 7:50 PM
"There is a Big Black Rock on the dark side."
You mean the monolith from "2001: A Space Odyssey?" I had no idea!
So, was the HAL 9000 on a 'jihad' in that movie, or what?
"I read your lips, Dave."
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 8:40 PM
"I can't allow you to jeapordize the mission, Dave."
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 30, 2006 8:42 PM
Sorry Hugh,
I don't believe helping another muslim state to rise up is to anyones benefit and think that America should leave well alone and concentrate on its own house.
I do believe it would be better for everyone if all the western countries removed themselves from Iraq,Afghanistan and let these people sort out their own messes....there has been too much interference. I am sorry for the innocents who will be left behind but they are not being helped anyway now so why delay.
The West needs to strengthen itself and find means of existing without oil and develop what it has. In some years we can go back, in kindness, and pick up the bits, but the islamic world needs to ostracized, kept away from us because it is evil and vicious and the thinking world should have no part in it, except to stop that world entering into ours.
Don't teach them, don't arm them.
Perhaps this is simplistic but that's my thinking.
As far as debating this nasty little worm ibramsha, just move him to the sidelines and let him burble to himself until his god makes him (more) insane.
at March 30, 2006 8:43 PM
This is better than the 7:00 news - come back Mo-deen!
Posted by: champ at March 30, 2006 10:16 PM
yohannbiimu-
If it would help them evolve from bone-slinging, homicidal chimps, wouldn't a lunar voyage be worth it?
I was just trying to think of a dual-use for all of the left-over the Iranian rockets once their warheads are rendered defunct.
And, since the Moon is a central symbol for Islam (utterly irrationally), let them go continue their "sectarian strife" someplace more accurately approximating their interior life.
HAL (IBM transposed one letter) would have made a good Muslim.
Cunning, implacable, merciless and obsessed.
And missing the point, cosmically.
Destroying life for dogma.
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 31, 2006 2:01 AM
Perhaps this thread should be re-titled "The Art of Sinking into Pointless Theological Debate"
Getting back to the topic, yes, we should withdraw our troops and bring them home now. This is essential as:
1. Nothing more will be acheived by keeping them there, they will only provide target practice for Moslems
2. There is no hope of effecting any lasting changes to the social and governmental practices of either Afghanistan nor Iraq, the institutions required for a secular, democratic system of government can't be imposed externally.
3. The allied nations will have changes in governments and political policies in the coming years which will see new governments elected on "bring the boys back home" platforms. This is inevitable, lets pack up and go home on our terms.
4. Civil war in Iraq is also inevitable. That's none of our business, and there's absolutley no reason why our men and women should be in the firing line.
5. It will be much easier to carry out the necessary attacks on Iran if there's no ground troops in Iraq and Afghanistan to be concerned about.
What has been acheived so far?
. OBL is still on the run, the opportunity to nail him passed when Clinton was in office and the Sudanese government told the USA TWICE that he was in Khartoum, and they were prepared to nab him if requested. Clinton did nothing, perhaps he was too busy with Monica at the time.
. No WMD were found in Iraq. This isn't surprising, they were shipped to Syria and Lebabnon before the invasion. Did anyone seriously expect that Saddam would leave them in his garage?
. Regime change has been effected, a good outcome.
. The West has shown its resolve and its ability to insert itself wherever it so choses. Terror supporting states have taken note, a good outcome.
Hang Saddam, pack up and go home. Anything else will result in needless allied casualties, and needless expenditure. There is nothing more to be gained here folks, lets go home.
Posted by: Ozi_bloke at March 31, 2006 6:15 AM
I must take exception to the poster above who describes theological debate as "pointless," when in fact the crux of this entire conflict rests upon theological principles. The question of whether Islam should be valued more than life is very much to the point and the question of whether God's will more than Islamic law is a critical question for Muslims to ask themselves.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 31, 2006 7:08 AM
As far as debating this nasty little worm ibramsha, just move him to the sidelines and let him burble to himself until his god makes him (more) insane.
Posted by: marilyn at March 30, 2006 08:43 PM
From http://www.vermisell.co.uk/shop/19/index.htm we find:
===
A few tips on going organic:
1 Stop using all toxic sprays, pesticides and weedkillers. Your local council can advise on how to dispose of any leftovers.
2 Clear perennial weeds or unwanted, non-woody plants from a badly infested piece of ground by covering for a few months with pieces of carpet, roofing felt or vinyl flooring.
3 Do use organic fertilisers including wormcasts, blood, fish and bone-meal; bone-meal;hoof and horn; seaweed extract; dried blood, and organic potash. Don't use artificial fertilisers, such as sulphate of ammonia, sulphate of potash or Growmore.
4 Compost garden and household waste in a wormery or composter.
5 Improve the soil by digging in bulky manures, such as VermiSell manure mulch, well rotted stable manure or farmyard manure.
6 Use a wormery, feed the worms with finely chopped vegtable waste, and dilute the liquid fertiliser they'll produce to feed your crops. Once you try this you will wonder how it had escaped you before!
7 Wild birds will dispose of many garden pests. Put out water, mealworms, seeds and nuts, and grow bushes and climbing plants to provide shelter and nests sites.
===
See, you ignore the worm and eat pesticides.
Seriously, if my posts are not to be challenged, the readers would take them to be facts. Good for us.
at March 31, 2006 7:27 AM
If it would help them … wouldn't a lunar voyage be worth it?
Posted by: profitsbeard at March 31, 2006 02:01 AM
Thanks for the offer. We would be very happy to extend our Khilafath to the moon!
at March 31, 2006 7:31 AM
the question of whether God's will more than Islamic law is a critical question for Muslims to ask themselves.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 31, 2006 07:08 AM
Dear Rebeccaa JW,
Thanks for answering Ozi_bloke. Coming to your question, the answer is:
===
3:67 Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah’s, (which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
42:14 And they became divided only after Knowledge reached them,- through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord, (tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been settled between them: But truly those who have inherited the Book after them are in suspicious (disquieting) doubt concerning it.
42:15 Now then, for that (reason), call (them to the Faith), and stand steadfast as thou art commanded, nor follow thou their vain desires; but say: "I believe in the Book which Allah has sent down; and I am commanded to judge justly between you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is (our) Final Goal.
===
Islamic law is God’s will.
at March 31, 2006 7:57 AM
Mohideen Ibramsha, then I understand you to say that God's will is:
1) Islamic law plus 2) what happens in reality in time.
is it nothing more?
Posted by: Rebecca JW at March 31, 2006 11:24 AM
Screw the topic!
profitsbeard wrote:
"HAL (IBM transposed one letter) would have made a good Muslim.
Not only that, HAL 9000 would make the perfect muslim. HAL was so obsessed with its own sense of perfection, that when it was proven that "he" WASN'T, "his" logic presupposed that everyone who wasn't "perfect" had screwed "him" up, and they had to be eliminated.
The only difference between HAL 9000 and his human brethren is that HAL was utterly calm throughout its murderous rampage, and it showed some sense of survival when it was on the ropes:
"Stop, Dave. I understand why you are upset, Dave, but I am feeling better now. Stop...Dave."
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 31, 2006 1:50 PM
"God Almighty does not take sides."
Of course he doesn't, but people can. People can be on the side of God, and prevail according to his precepts and commandments. As followers of this islamic god and his precepts, success would follow accordingly. Failure as a result of being faithful must be terribly frustrating.
It's also nonsensical to imagine that the allah faithful in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan were not taken into account for their "faithfulness." God's will was seen through the Seven-Day War of 1967. It was even prophesied:
Isaiah 11:13-14:
13: The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
14: But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west (the Gaza strip); they shall spoil them of the east together (the Siani): they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab (the west bank of the Jordan); and the children of Ammon (Jordan) shall obey them.
This happens in context with Israel's return, prior to the coming of their Messiah:
10: And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11: And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12: And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
All of this happened, 2600 years ago, according to the will of God.
at March 31, 2006 2:03 PM
"All of this happened, 2600 years ago, according to the will of God."
I meant to say, it was prophesied 2600 years ago, and it happened (1967), according to the will of God.
at March 31, 2006 2:04 PM
God's will was seen through the Seven-Day War of 1967. It was even prophesied:
Posted by: yohannbiimu at March 31, 2006 02:03 PM
Muslims do not say that God Almighty intervenes in minutiae. The following Tradition sums up a Muslim’s faith.
From http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=morning+evening+death&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all we get:
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Narrated Mujahid: 'Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "Allah's Apostle took hold of my shoulder and said, 'Be in this world as if you were a stranger or a traveler." The sub-narrator added: Ibn 'Umar used to say, "If you survive till the evening, do not expect to be alive in the morning, and if you survive till the morning, do not expect to be alive in the evening, and take from your health for your sickness, and (take) from your life for your death." (Book #76, Hadith #425) (Sahih Bukhari)
===
Muslims do not put conditions on their faith. Whatever happens in this life should not affect a Muslim’s faith. We do not wager our faith. So the defeat of the Muslims in 1967 in no way indicates the strength or weakness of Islam.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at March 31, 2006 11:35 PM
"Muslims do not put conditions on their faith. Whatever happens in this life should not affect a Muslim’s faith. We do not wager our faith. So the defeat of the Muslims in 1967 in no way indicates the strength or weakness of Islam."
No, it indicates that Isaiah was a true prophet of God, since his prophesy (what a prophet does--prophesise NOT attack, butcher, and plunder the countryside) came to be. The defeat of the Muslims in 1967 came to be, because God's messenger Isaiah said it would happen. God said it would happen, therefore, God's will was seen through.
Also, it is apparent from your flimsy "hadith" that allah does not put conditions on muslims either. Muslims can do everything that your god tells them that they MUST do, but that does not mean it will matter in the end. What good is your "faith" if your god does not care about the faithfulness of his followers?
The answer to that is simple: ALLAH DOES NOT HAVE ANY POWER TO DO ANYTHING--EVER. The one true God Almighty who spoke through Isaiah (NOT Mohammad) does, and if you want to know real spiritual wisdom and knowledge, you'll burn your demonic koran and hadiths and read the Bible. IT contains the fullness of spiritual wisdom.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 10:52 AM
ALLAH DOES NOT HAVE ANY POWER TO DO ANYTHING--EVER.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 10:52 AM
The only power is power of Allah. Just because God Almighty in His design has permitted a puny victory to Israel, you claim that Islam is wrong! What a pity you seem to gloat on the basis of one victory by Israel on the cronies of America. Islam has survived worse calamities and has grown. Wait and see the power of Islam; don’t gloat. Wait for the end of the current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The one who laughs last laughs the longest.
at April 1, 2006 2:53 PM
As I wrote in an earlier post-thread:
"Islam: The "holy" religion of "holy" principles of a "holy" god that furthers itself through unholy acts by unholy, barbarous people. Lies, deceits, violence, murder, and all manner of abominable sins are but mere tools to bring about an end that is supposed to be "holy."
Your religion is not based upon what is holy, but rather what is unholy, because it calls for its inhearants to be unholy rather than to be holy. How can that which is holy be the source of so much evil?
Also, "one victory" Mohideen? Did not Israel succeed in 1948 against all odds? Did they not succeed against Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq in 1973? I have alredy shown you that Israel's revival was prophesied by Isaiah (also Ezikiel 37:15-17) as true prophets of God.
Mohideen, the "power" of Islam is only what people in it can give to it, and its people (all one-point-something billion of them )are certainly giving everything to it; however, it will fail just as ALL human efforts will fail. Islam is a human's efforts to reach God, and NO amount of human effort can do that.
Human's efforts are puny and insignificant. Human's weak efforts only lead to Hell. Should all muslims rise in one-accord to do ONE thing that flies in the face of God's will, all muslims will fail in humiliation.
I'm not gloating, Mohideen, I'm just laying down the truth to you. You can either continue in your own insignificant efforts to reach God, or you can accept His free gift of life eternal. You cannot be redeemed through your studies, prayers, and obedience to the Koran and the hadiths. That only happens through the shed blood of Christ. Only God's grace can save you.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 5:18 PM
I'm not gloating, Mohideen, I'm just laying down the truth to you. You can either continue in your own insignificant efforts to reach God, or you can accept His free gift of life eternal. You cannot be redeemed through your studies, prayers, and obedience to the Koran and the hadiths. That only happens through the shed blood of Christ. Only God's grace can save you.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 05:18 PM
Dear yohannbiimu,
Thanks for your kindness. I have copied below my understanding of the crucifixion in the light of Verse 157 of Chapter 4 of the Holy Quran. I quote 4:157 now.
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4:157 That they said (in boast) “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah”; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
===
In response to sister Beth I offered the following explanation in http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006654.php#comments I quote the same below for immediate reference.
====
The victor is always virtuous and the loser is always a villain. So was it with respect to the Romans and the twelve disciples of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. In our opinion, the best disciple – Judas – sacrificed himself on the cross impersonating Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. However, their strength, the miracle making Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, was taken to Heaven by God Almighty and the disciples were no match for the power of the Romans. So, the Romans substituted the solar calendar in place of the lunar calendar followed by Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. Could the Romans let the actual heroism of Judas be recorded and allow the future generations to laugh at them how they went to crucify Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them but ended up crucifying Judas who was made to look like Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them at the time of arrest? No. So, the Romans hanged Judas after the ascension of Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, to Heaven and created spin – as the CIA does now – that Judas was a traitor.
If Judas has to simply point out Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, to the Romans for a few silver coins, why should he go so near and embrace Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them? It is our claim that Judas embraced Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, simply to transfer the silver coins to him and to surrender himself to the Romans as Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. During the embrace, God Almighty made Judas to resemble Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them for some required time. After Judas had sacrificed his life on the cross, and his body was buried, the body within the shroud would have returned to its own shape as Judas. Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, who was not crucified, resurrects Judas and thus the leader and the twelve followers would have celebrated.
God Almighty as per His plan took Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, to Heaven and the disciples continued to preach the truth – which it was Judas who was crucified and resurrected. Well, it took very little time to overpower the disciples, hang Judas and make Judas a traitor. We consider the above interpretation as true in the light of 4:157 and 4:158 of the Holy Quran. In the following we look at some of the accepted statements in the literature and interpret them as they should be.
Let us consider the seven last words of Christ as described in http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/43/Seven_Last_Words_of_Christ.html They are:
1. Father, forgive them, they know not what they do. Lk. 23:34
2. This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise. Lk. 23:43
3. Woman, behold thy son. Jn. 19:26-7
4. My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mk. 15:34 (Mt. 27:46)
5. I thirst. Jn. 19:28
6. It is finished. Jn. 19:30
7. Into thine hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit. Lk. 23:46
Judas impersonated Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them and sacrificed himself on the cross. The first phrase is said by Judas while he is conscious of the fact that he is impersonating Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them. Tradition numbered 652 in Volume 4 of Sahih Al-Bukhari supports such a description of a Prophet, peace be upon him, as a son of God. Quoting the Tradition, we have:
===
Narrated Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."
===
The second phrase is the statement by God indicating the onset of death, and is repeated by Judas. Judas by his act of sacrifice has become a martyr. Every martyr enters Heaven immediately as a “bird of Paradise,” in the company of God Almighty. Tradition numbered 873 of Sahih Muslim supports the above interpretation. Quoting the Tradition, we have:
===
Narrated Abdullah
It has been narrated on the authority of Masruq who said: We asked Abdullah about the Qur'anic verse: "Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they are alive, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord...." (iii.169). He said: We asked the meaning of the verse (from the Holy Prophet) who said: The souls of the martyrs live in the bodies of green birds who have their nests in chandeliers hung from the throne of the Almighty. They eat the fruits of Paradise wherever they like and then nestle in these chandeliers. Once their Lord cast a glance at them and said: Do ye want anything? They said: What more can we desire? We eat the fruit of Paradise wherever we like. Their Lord asked them the same question thrice. When they saw that they would continue to be asked and not left (without answering the question), they said: O Lord, we wish that Thou mayest return our souls to our bodies so that we may be slain in Thy cause once again. When He (Allah) saw that they had no need, they were left (to their joy in heaven).
===
The last five phrases are said by Judas as Judas. The third, “Woman, behold thy son,” is addressed to mother Mary, Allah be pleased with her, to convey that the one dying on the cross is not the Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, but someone else. What is there to behold in a dead body? So, the son referred was Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, who was not crucified.
The fourth, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” is uttered by Judas in response to the pain of death. God did say that Judas would be in Paradise that day; there should be no pain in Paradise; still, Judas felt the pain of death and responds on the occurrence of the pain of death.
The fifth, “I thirst,” is another sign of the onset of death. Tradition numbered 261 in volume 4 of Sahih Al-Bukhari supports this statement. The Tradition is:
===
Narrated Anas bin Malik
A group of eight men from the tribe of Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in
Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died
(Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against
Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.")
===
The sixth, “It is finished,” represents the completion of the sacrifice of Judas; the punishment has been meted out; and the one ordered to be killed by the Romans has reached the last few moments of his life on the cross. The Romans believed that they were crucifying Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them, while in reality they crucified Judas impersonating Prophet Jesus, son of Mary, peace be upon them.
The seventh, “Into thine hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit,” is the saying of Judas as a martyr.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at June 20, 2005 05:54 PM
===
May I invite you to Islam? It is one of the prophesies of Prophet Muhammad that the sun shall rise from the west before the Day of Judgment, and that any who embraces Islam after such rising of the sun from the west would not receive the benefit of reverting to Islam. I understand by this to mean that the current favor of “erasing all the sins committed until the reversion to Islam” would not be available. Thus, after the sun rises from the west, anyone who reverts to Islam would carry the past sins and would be judged as a born Muslim would be judged on the Day of Judgment. That is he / she would be admitted to Paradise only if a similarly placed born Muslim would be admitted to Paradise.
So, I invite brother yohannbiimu and other lucky ones to revert to Islam now. The sun is expected to rise in another hour or so today. Yesterday the sun rose in the east. As regards today, we do not know. The sun might rise in the west. If it does not happen today, it is sure to happen in one of the coming days. So, please consider the possibility that the current Holy Bible could be a modified document – modified by the victorious Romans – and revert to Islam.
at April 2, 2006 6:01 AM
I am familiar with the dispicable lie that Judus took our Lord's place on the cross. It is a tradition that began with your false prophet Mohammad, may he burn and suffer in hell forever.
Isaiah 53 says what happened:
1: Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2: For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3: He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4: Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6: All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7: He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9: And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10: Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11: He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Our Lord Jesus gave his eternal life for the sins of all who would believe. Your apostate "prophet" took life of all who would not believe in his lying message. Tens of millions of sinning, apostate muslims will realize their error in the coming days, and will accept the saving grace of God, though Christ's shed blood for all. Mohideen, I pray you will be one of them.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 2, 2006 1:56 PM
I am familiar with the dispicable lie that Judus took our Lord's place on the cross.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 2, 2006 01:56 PM
Inshah Allah, I hope to reply to the above in http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010847.php Please visit this URL.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at April 3, 2006 8:42 AM
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