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David Kennedy Houck reveals how serious the challenge to the U.S. Constitution by Muslim groups has already become. From the Middle East Quarterly, with thanks to DFS:
First in Europe and now in the United States, Muslim groups have petitioned to establish enclaves in which they can uphold and enforce greater compliance to Islamic law. While the U.S. Constitution enshrines the right to religious freedom and the prohibition against a state religion, when it comes to the rights of religious enclaves to impose communal rules, the dividing line is more nebulous. Can U.S. enclaves, homeowner associations, and other groups enforce Islamic law?Such questions are no longer theoretical. While Muslim organizations first established enclaves in Europe,[1] the trend is now crossing the Atlantic. Some Islamist community leaders in the United States are challenging the principles of assimilation and equality once central to the civil rights movement, seeking instead to live according to a separate but equal philosophy. The Gwynnoaks Muslim Residential Development group, for example, has established an informal enclave in Baltimore because, according to John Yahya Cason, director of the Islamic Education and Community Development Initiative, a Baltimore-based Muslim advocacy group, "there was no community in the U.S. that showed the totality of the essential components of Muslim social, economic, and political structure."[2]
Baltimore is not alone. In August 2004, a local planning commission in Little Rock, Arkansas, granted The Islamic Center for Human Excellence authorization to build an internal Islamic enclave to include a mosque, a school, and twenty-two homes.[3] While the imam, Aquil Hamidullah, says his goal is to create "a clean community, free of alcohol, drugs, and free of gangs,"[4] the implications for U.S. jurisprudence of this and other internal enclaves are greater: while the Little Rock enclave might prevent the sale of alcohol, can it punish possession and in what manner? Can it force all women, be they residents or visitors, to don Islamic hijab (headscarf)? Such enclaves raise the fundamental questions of when, how, and to what extent religious practice may supersede the U.S. Constitution.
Don't fail to read it all.
Posted by Robert at April 1, 2006 5:43 AM
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Masha-Allah,
all that I have been saying over the past 2 years....telling you what will happen...how it will happen & that you will sit there & watch it happen...it's beariing fruit.
The start of the Islamic states of America has wheels.
jilbabs & peace
Posted by: Naseem![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 1, 2006 6:07 AM
What's wrong with alcohol, drugs and gangs? The price of freedom is what freedom brings. Where there is dogma there is no freedom.
Posted by: samson at April 1, 2006 6:19 AM
We may not only have a Eurabia -
But might we have a USabia or Americabia to speak of too!
I think people in the US assumed that they were safe – as most of the immigrants are coming from Central and South America (which might be a blessing in disguise). But it is time to wake up - when it comes to the Muslim immigrant - as Islam is not only meant to be used as a personal belief, but it is also meant to be used as a system of government. And here the problem lies. They don't wish to follow our laws they want to follow their own Islamic laws - with the aim of eventually bringing the whole country under this system of law.
For this reason every Western nation has to consider how it allows Islamic people into its country. Some European countries have already started using selected immigration – mainly to weed out the mostly intolerant Islamic migrants. People of Western nations are exempt from these tests.
In Islamic countries a person will be punished or killed for changing their religion away from Islam – but then they want to set up Islamic structures, with Islamic laws in Christian countries. "Islam 4 the World" has to be their ultimate intention. As they are not willing to be flexible – but that they expect us to be, shows us that they want to advance into our territories, while keeping theirs firmly in lockdown.
Extremely worrying.
It was going to happen > It was going to happen >
Posted by: Pass It On at April 1, 2006 6:49 AM
The Islamic Center for Human Excellence
LOL! They have a knack for creating groups and organizations with the oddest names that just don't fit the reality. Human Excellence, Human Rights, Friendship, etc., etc. But it does manage to fool a lot of people, unfortunately. They've sure figured us out. Come up with an appropriate sounding, trendy label, and the pencil-pushers in some government ministry will fall all over themselves for you. "Sure, go ahead, create your intolerant, racist, sexist apartheid state in our country." This state will, of course, expand, as they breed like rabbits. And those who've given their blood, sweat and tears to build up the great country of America, will be shunted aside, trampled upon, in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance", for the most intolerant culture on the planet, bar none.
This must be stopped. Cut off the overseas funding. They won't be able to survive without drug trafficking and gang activity. Appropriate activity for a criminal culture, incapable of anything productive or creative.
Posted by: feralee
at April 1, 2006 6:52 AM
You can't bear fruit from a dunghill and that's all Islam is. You think Arizona and the Mohave are barren wildernesses, just wait until more of these Mohammedans begin to infest the "fruitful plain" and see what they do to it; what they have done to their own countries, turning it into a hellish, dusty nightmare, where their lord of the underworld will reign supreme.
Why don't they all move to California where they can hook up with the church of Satan? I'm sure they have a lot in common.
I know that's nasty but they don't know any decency or civility so I don't really know how to relate to such a primitive sort.
PJ
Posted by: PJ at April 1, 2006 6:54 AM
"Where there is dogma there is no freedom"
And there is hardly anything - technology - jobs
If it wasn't for the oil these people would not be powerful.
We should go to an Islamic country and ask for a Christian/Hindu/Buddhist enclave - governed under 'other' laws. We would probably be summarily beheaded.
at April 1, 2006 6:55 AM
One assumes that, as in Europe, such enclaves will become "no go" areas for non-Muslims and, eventually, for law enforcement agencies.
Posted by: Norseman at April 1, 2006 7:16 AM
they have carved out areas in other parts of the US such as Dearborn Mich.. my uncle and aunt setteled there many years ago, and are prol rolling in the graves at the tought of its growing menace. But when you preace diversity you get a balcanized country!
Posted by: Lulu at April 1, 2006 7:30 AM
One assumes that, as in Europe, such enclaves will become "no go" areas for non-Muslims and, eventually, for law enforcement agencies.
Of course! But these areas won't be 'no go' for the welfare cheques and other public-funded freebies. And of course, the residents of these enclaves will feel free to invade neighbouring areas and go on destructive rampages once in a while. To show who's boss. Or to frighten the neighbours away, so as to expand into the recently vacated areas, since they breed like rabbits.
at April 1, 2006 7:33 AM
"Can U.S. enclaves, homeowner associations, and other groups enforce Islamic law? "
Several years ago, if this question were asked, I would have thought it a very stupid notion and chuckled at this tongue-in-cheek question.
Today, I see an America that is up for sale by its own government.
There has never been a time in the nations history for example, when illegals were not only allowed into the country but:
welcomed by the government;
encouraged by the government to demand
non-existant rights which were subsequently granted; given preference in employment, housing, medical facilities, and education over domestic citizens.
There has never been a time in this nations history, when a police officer charged with duties of protecting the congress, could expect to be punched by a member of congress while he was doing his duty; then have to be concerned with being charged with racism -- because he was punched by a congress person of color whom he subsequently filed charges against.
So will shariah law eventually usurpt the Constitution of the United States?
YES!
Because of the sellout of this nation by fools who believe that they will not be touched by the consequences of their sellout; and by a stupid mass of gutless individuals who refuse to hold their "representatives" to account as their nation and everything they hold dear -- is flushed down the sewer of polical correctness.
Posted by: witness at April 1, 2006 7:39 AM
David Kennedy Houck asks . . .
"Such enclaves raise the fundamental questions of when, how, and to what extent religious practice may supersede the U.S. Constitution."
After twice reading the entire article, the answer is really quite simle. . .
NEVER.
Separate but equal is fine so long as
it's distinctiveness does not contradict or attempt to supercede any state or federal law.
If this is unacceptable to any muslim in the US . .. then it's time to reconsider why they are here.
Door. Ass. Bang.
at April 1, 2006 8:46 AM
Enforcing rules in any enclave would be done on a basis of contract or property rights, either of which are values that are fundamental to our society. This is not a bad thing.
We have another direct example of this in the battle that is going on at this very moment in some state legislatures. The issue at hand is whether or not an employer can enforce a policy that forbids employees from having legal firearms in their vehicles while parked on company property.
Similarly, several states including Missouri, allow property owners to forbid anyone carrying an otherwise legal concealed weapon from entering their premesis.
In both cases, the issue at hand is the right of property owners to enjoy full control over their property.
Government cannot interpret religious teachings or what people will choose to believe or not believe Whether the case at hand are followers of David Koresh who believed that they were religiously obligated to stay inside their closed community, abide by their rules and social constructs (even when those constructs included sexual abuse), or any other religion such as the sect of people who committed suicide to meet space aliens, government can only inform people of the rights they have, and protect people who want to exercise their rights.
In this manner, a government that cannot intrude into religious matters is significantly debilitated from being able to counter the spread of Islam, unless and until Islam goes beyond private belief and into changing public policy or criminal acts.
The only institutions that can counter Islam in this country are the existing religious ones. Where are the voices of Christian values that were once so loud in the public square? Where they are heard, the left has done its best to attempt to shout them down. Worse, the left has done its best to exclude those values from any other public venue such as prisoner education, public policy making.
Of course, the left doesn't have any coherent values with which to counter Islam. It also appears the left has not yet really awakened to what an Islamic America would mean for civil rights, especially for the right to freely publish satirical cartoons.
Islam presents a unique challenge to American society, a society that used to be based on and express the values found in the Bible. Either we return to those values or we will face the choice that Islam demands of non-believers: convert, submit or die.
at April 1, 2006 9:17 AM
The attempt to introduce sharia law to America is not going to happen, our constitution, and our legal system is to well established in the long term. Even EU countries have no court system whatsoever that practices the slightest suggestion of sharia.
The greatest problem is that non-assimilating muslims are practicing it with in their communities in the EU, but their practices are recognized as illegal and prosecuted when found out.
Attempts to establish sharia law in Canada have collapsed mostly thanks to Islamic womens groups who are in many ways the main victims of many of its barbaric practices, such as honor killings, and beating of wives Quran 4:34. Canadian Muslims have tried to soft peddle and practice sharia family, and business practices within their communities but even that has produced tremendous friction when they tried to incourage the Canadian government to take it a step farther, in the end they where completely shut down.
The greatest danger comes from liberal judges,politicians, and leftest idiologs that are to steeped in the warped, and perverted practices of multiculturalism and will try to bend to the aggressive will of this determined totalitarian ideology.
Posted by: Mackie at April 1, 2006 9:22 AM
I would think that in the enclaves of muslims here in the U.S. that they are already practicing some sort of sharia in their little groups. I'll bet a lot of them have several wives,practice FGM and whatever else they can get away with without involving the authorities.
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 9:35 AM
This is the first step toward creating a Muslim area where they can plan their takeover with impunity. It will begin with the Islamists agitating for a separate seat on city council or county government. Then they will demand that Sharia be enforced in that area. They will prevail because there are too many bed-wetting multi-culturalists in control of local government. I predict that somewhere there will be an attempt to secure a city charter that would codify Sharia law in that charter. Can we expect car bombs and shootings in Middle America?
What is so irritating in my view is that a group of Christians in Baltimore or Little Rock would have been told to “go pound sand” if they had suggested a “Christian Center for Human Excellence.” Call it Creeping Islamism.
Posted by: Pelayo at April 1, 2006 9:40 AM
This is a secular society. If Moslems don't like that they should leave or be deported. Islam is a religion of intolerance in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere and their intolerance should not be legally established in the US under the guise of "multiculturalism" or any calls for "tolerance" of intolerance.
Islam is a religion of intolerance and people are starting to laugh at mind-game charges such as "Islamaphobia" as they learn that Islam is a religion of intolerance.
Posted by: Frank at April 1, 2006 9:59 AM
"...there was no community in the U.S. that showed the totality of the essential components of Muslim social, economic, and political structure."
You know, it's going to be a relief when we can finally stop this charade and start passing the ammunition.
Posted by: Foehammer at April 1, 2006 10:01 AM
Today, I see an America that is up for sale by its own government.
Truer words were never spoken. I guess the mega rich think they can live in their compounds and not be touched by Sharia. And on that same subject...a low cost housing development should be placed next door to every congressperson that votes to allow the continued invasion of our country. Just imagine Ted Kennedy and haughty John F'n Kerry with poor people next door to them.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 1, 2006 10:15 AM
Fight America, fight the evil that is islam and the naseems of this worlds.
Naseem, when your smug, sure life falls apart and if the whole world is evil islam where are you going to go for succour. The West is where muslims have run like rabbits for years but sadly you brought your filth with you.
at April 1, 2006 10:20 AM
I am 100% behind building a muslim enclave. Surprised? Disillusioned by my support? Well don’t be the military term for enclave is “target rich environment."
Posted by: Ronin at April 1, 2006 11:07 AM
Muslims are enemies to our Constitution, and as such are enemies to the state. They are a clear and present danger to our country. They use our laws in order to weaken them for their own advantage. Islam is the real enemy. Islam is a disease and must be treated as such.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 11:12 AM
I thought the whole idea of becomming an American is to become all of one? This sounds like a settlement in Little Rock? Wasn't seperate but equal a farce that was done away with in the 1950's? We in America have whats known as a central government. If these muslims are able to start their own cults here, complete with their own ruling laws...whats to stop the KKK from having their own laws? Are we regressing? Is it the whole world who are comming into this country and laughing at the joke that it has become? David Koresh tried this experiment in Waco Texas, and the government went in and killed every man woman and child with brutal force...Oh yeah...wait...I forgot...he was christian...thats a No No in this country anymore...Sorry...forget my post...I had forgotten Americas move to hate all things christian while embracing the religion of "Peace". Are we bending over backwards to accommodate islam? Or are we just bending over?
Posted by: JohnnyCalifornia at April 1, 2006 11:30 AM
OT but good news: The news showed Jill Carroll arriving in Germany with as US Army issue jacket and no muslim ninja hood. I think it might set a record for shortest conversion. I’ll bet she will admit to just telling the captives what they wanted to hear, suckers fell for it. Good job, Jill. Now tell the truth about how well allah’s faithful treated you.
Posted by: Ronin at April 1, 2006 11:30 AM
Hey Folks:
I just did a google count, "islam" got 160 million hits, while "christ" got 163 million hits.
In addition, I've noticed an almost obsessive focus on Islam and its texts by some commenters on this site.
You might wish to take note of the Yogic principle of SAMRAMBHA, which observes that one becomes what one constantly contemplates, even if that focus is charged with hate.
Diversity of thought is important, and you may find ways to apply alternate teachings to the problems you wish to address. If you feel this is the case for you, please remember to preserve and propogate the ideas of your own religious and cultural texts. You may also wish to sample philosophies propounded by Aristotle, Lao Tzu, or perhaps part of the Vedas.
The US Consititution can be found here:
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/charters.html
Naseem, sister, I don't know if you live in the US or not, but if you do, I would encourage you to also read this document.
Posted by: jehana at April 1, 2006 12:00 PM
Naseem wrote: " The start of the Islamic states of America has wheels. "
Naseem: I have some news for you from America.
The Islamic states of America is running on FLAT TIRES.
Naseem is a wishful thinker who posts from Pakistan with little to no real understanding of the west.
The United States will never become an Islamic republic.
The majority of Americans have little sympathy for Islam.
Americans won't cede power to Muslims who make religious claims to govern the United States through sharia.
at April 1, 2006 12:16 PM
Islam: The "holy" religion of "holy" principles of a "holy" god that furthers itself through unholy acts by unholy, barbarous people. Lies, deceits, violence, murder, and all manner of abominable sins are but mere tools to bring about an end that is supposed to be "holy."
Would Naseem wish to comment?
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 12:56 PM
For over four and one-half years the bien-pensants (pejorative intended) of the West have struggled mightily with semantic avoidance of the obvious: what shall we call the enemy? The gamut of combinations has been exhaustive; nevertheless, no politically correct satisfactory definition has been found. To his undying credit, Christopher Hitchens coined “Islamofascism”, but even this formulation presents an unbridgeable void.
Although Jihad Watch may have previously covered this ground, I think a lecture given in February 2006 has, at long last, provided an intellectually appealing solution to the quandary. See:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Articles & Commentary
Because they Hate (Isralert)
http://www.isralert.com/archives/2006/02/because_they_ha.php
By Brigitte Gabriel
Isralert.com source: FrontPageMagazine.com | February 20, 2006
Ms. Gabriel’s answer to the question of who is the enemy is eloquently simple: “authentic Islam”, by which she means Islam. For all who care, ISLAM!!!! is the enemy. In summary,
Islamofascism
Wahhabism
militant-Islam
hijacked Islam
any modifier chosen-Islam
__________________________
Islam
at April 1, 2006 1:10 PM
The straw that broke the camel's back.
This is it for me. I am officially done.
I don't want anymore here.
The ones that are here (and yes I know that "ONES" is like "THOSE PEOPLE", but I don't care anymore), need to tow the line of our established rules and laws. If they don't like them they need to leave.
Right here right now I pledge that I will vote on this issue. From local up through President -- the candidate that is willing to step up and say no more immigration by Muslims will get my vote.
Intolerant? Yes.
Smart? Without a doubt.
I am tired of watching this slow decline. Things people have long predicted are coming true day by day. If we don't stop it now we will not have chance to stop it at all.
Are there ANY candidates out there that are saying stop their immigration now?
Any at all?
Posted by: toleranceorappeasement? at April 1, 2006 1:11 PM
It is very acceptable and should be enforced for all muslims in the US to move to enclaves so they can worship as a group.
Posted by: Texican at April 1, 2006 1:32 PM
Texican wrote:
"It is very acceptable and should be enforced for all muslims in the US to move to enclaves so they can worship as a group."
Yes, and close them up completely so that nothing can come in, and nothing or no one can get out. We can air-drop food, some necessary supplies, and Bibles to show our humanity, but nothing Islamic should be allowed to infest and corrupt the rest of the land.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 1:39 PM
"In addition, I've noticed an almost obsessive focus on Islam and its texts by some commenters on this site."
-jehana at April 1, 2006 12:00 PM
Take note of the name of this website, madame.
Posted by: Eisenhund at April 1, 2006 1:53 PM
To "allen" 1:10 PM add,
To the endless list of pseudo, quasi, faux, etc. Islams, most definitely add “moderate” Islam.
Posted by: allen at April 1, 2006 1:56 PM
Nasseem posted: all that I have been saying over the past 2 years....telling you what will happen...how it will happen & that you will sit there & watch it happen...it's beariing fruit.
You are absolutely right. You have done everything to warn us of what is going to happen.
Posted by: DP111 at April 1, 2006 2:00 PM
Jonathan posted: The majority of Americans have little sympathy for Islam.
There is no room for complacence. It is only a majority, and if islamic immigration and birth rates duplicate as they have done in Europe, that majority will no longer exist.
Posted by: DP111 at April 1, 2006 2:04 PM
Naseem;
The United States will only convert to Islime over the dead bodies of every single freedom lover in this country. This I promise before God, Mother, and Country!!! I wiil never subjugate myself to Islime, the book of fairy tales koran, the moon god Allah, and his pedeophile phalse prophet, child molestin' Muhammad. When my tools of the 2nd Amendment are taken from my cold, dead fingers, then you can dance on my corpse. Because then it won't matter. Better dead than under Islime. And if I take a few of you Islamofeces with me, all the better. Just a lot less for my fellow freedom fighters/lovers to deal with. I love America too much to let our politicains sell us down the road to dhimmitude and sharia rule.
May Islime rot in the deep bowels of the deepest hell with the pedeophile phalse prophet, child molestin' Muhammad.
Freedom, It may be free, but it ain't cheap!
God Bless Islime-free America!!!
at April 1, 2006 2:42 PM
Hondo. Wow! I thought I was a little bit sharp with my feelings at times but glad to know there are many who share my passion.
I appreciate your pathos 100%! I hope that we in Ireland don't begin to bend over for these brain-washed morons as many times the Irish tend to try and appear to be tolerant and polite but let the Mohammedan never forget that this country fought for 700 years to gain its freedom and so it won't take much to get the dukes up again.
"Islime". That's a great one. I'll have to remember that one. If 'Islam' means 'submission', I guess 'Islime' means 'subliminalism'.
Cheers,
PJ
Posted by: PJ at April 1, 2006 3:04 PM
I read through the Middle East Quarterly, and under "The Internal Muslim Enclave" they hope to....
"segregate schools and offices by GENDER", are they kidding? They want to make other ridiculous changes too, but this request made me pee my pants, because it's never going to happen!
They would have us living in the Stone Ages if they could have their way - ugh!
Posted by: champ at April 1, 2006 4:22 PM
Nice one Naseem,
Instead of prancing in here with your tail feathers in the air, why don't you contribute meaningful thoughts and help us find a way for all human beings to find peace? REAL peace. Start by questioning your faith.
This so-called Islamist Challenge to the U.S. Constitution is nothing compared to quantum physics defeating the very idea of "allahs" existence. Take it from a theorist who has a degree in this field (Quantum electrodynamics). Islam lost the war 1400 years ago and all it will take to destroy Islam is a direct challenge to Islamic scholars. Trust me. "Allah" cannot survive mathematic, scientific, philosophical and ethical reason.
My statement may appear as a direct threat to anyone who reveres the idea of a creator but only allah, "most merciful and compassionate" is found to be quite merciless, evil and lethal to non-believers and apostates alike. Allah is obviously false in this respect. Don't get me wrong - I DO NOT reject others right to belief in a creator nor do I want to take such sacred ideals away from anyone. I simply reject beliefs that result in negative outcomes as does everyone else here who opposes Islam.
While militant Islamists see human flesh as the soft target - people like me see "allah" as a soft target. A near instant kill as far as imaginary deities go.
It's the simple truth and the truth will ultimately destroy your reasons to spread the moral falsity of your "faith." This truth, if the umma insists, will ultimately result in the deicide of allah and thus Muslim motivation to spread Islam. In short, your god is about to die from a bad case of proof.
Look at it this way Naseem, "allah" has no defense against modern reality. Never mind Democracy as a challenge. Defeating modern physics is an entirely intractable threat to allah. What you choose to do about this inevitability is up to you.
As DP111 has pointed out "You have done everything to warn us of what is going to happen." Professing Islams dominance over human life and it's aspirations of a world caliphate will bring about Islams eternal death. Attempt to remove freedom, liberty and our unified human right to happiness and I assure you that your "god" will die.
Posted by: Quantum Infidel at April 1, 2006 4:40 PM
I am puzzled:
Isn't the owner of Domino's pizza creating a 30,000 person town in Florida for Catholics, including a Catholic University? in fact, I've heard he said his town is also a response to Islamic Fundamentalism?
Read more here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2058771,00.html
are such communities Constitutional or not? only time will tell.....
Posted by: jehana at April 1, 2006 5:22 PM
and, Mr. Infidel, are you making a quantum attack on God in your last post, or only the Muslim concept of "Allah"? I am intrigued, although I know this is off-topic.
Posted by: jehana at April 1, 2006 5:24 PM
The power of Islam is what muslims can give to it. "Allah" has no power to give to it. Human effort can only go so far before it burns out, and Islam's fire will burn out eventually. It will fail just as all "movements" fail. I am watching, Naseem, and I hope you are too.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 5:26 PM
Islam will come, Islam will go. As the Roman poet Ovid said 2000 years ago:
'There is nothing constant in the universe. All ebb and flow...'
Sarasvati.
Posted by: Virgo at April 1, 2006 6:26 PM
Islam will come, Islam will go. As the Roman poet Ovid said 2000 years ago:
'There is nothing constant in the universe. All ebb and flow...'
Sarasvati.
Posted by: Virgo at April 1, 2006 6:26 PM
The Amish have enclaves in the US, so do Mormons in Utah, Native Americans have reservations and Chinatowns are Chinese enclaves.
It would be discriminatory and unconstitutional to deny Muslims the same rights / priviledges granted other groups, the jihadist security concerns notwithstanding.
at April 1, 2006 7:02 PM
Naseem,
Please corect me if I am wrong, but I understand that followers of Islam are instructed by their 'holy' text and by their teachers that there are only three ways to relate to non-believers:
1) Accept their conversion;
2) Accept their submission as second class citizens who must pay the jizyarh tax;
3) wage war against them until all are killed.
News flash: I refuse to convert. I refuse to submit. I refuse to die.
If you find any Americans who are willing to convert, submit or die, Islam is welcome to them.
at April 1, 2006 7:22 PM
Yes But!
Islam is very unique to these other groups, Naf, because they have stated that they want to 'Rule the World'; so their enclaves come with some very valid and unique CONCERNS - unlike the other groups you mentioned.
The Amish, the Mormons, Native Americans; not even the Chinese want World Dominance. Ok - China wants to be a regional power, but I've never heard them state that they want to take over the world!
I understand what you're saying, but Islam is in a class by itself.
Posted by: champ at April 1, 2006 7:32 PM
Stop with the Naseem crap. He/she posts and moves to other blogs. You will not get an answer. Naseem is several people. Check back, compare spelling and writing style.
Posted by: Ronin at April 1, 2006 7:46 PM
Imperialistic Islam is an anti-Constitutional conspiracy.
Why any Muslims were ever allowed to enter the U.S., except as diplomats from Mohammedan countries (thereby to be sequestered in embassy compounds and watched by spies) is the greatest scandal of this past -and now this current- century.
Their beliefs do not allow them to honestly pledge allegiance to anything by Allah, so they are all liars and infil-traitors when they pretend to become, or even to be born as, "American" citizens. They are member of the Islamic Ummah only, bent on the subversion, undermining, weakening, and final destruction of all free nations. America, above all.
The native Western political pimping classes care only about their personal power.
They sell out their countries to those bidders flush with petrodollars.
Or to pandering "internal" business interests infested by the global economy's inbred contempt for any single nation-state.
I am actually ready to start praying for a WMD attack alarm clock before it is too late.
Even if it killed me, I would welcome it if it woke the rest of the nation before it was too late.
If I were to say that we have 20 years before the balance tips too far, I would consider myself to be a charter member of Optimist's International.
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 1, 2006 8:22 PM
Assalamau-Laikum all,
Sorry couldn't answer earlier, things to do people to see & business to attend etc.
Mr. Ronin.... stop getting angry, I am not a collective...I am 40+ Ahmadi female as I have always said.
Saraswati...no Islam will dominate...if it perishes ...it will be when the human race finishes...or until judgement day...or until Allah (swt) decides.
I know a lot of people here are bullish about resistance to Islam....but if it is Allah's will ...and it is as Allah has shown all parts of the flat earth to the muslim in Koran...this is pre-ordained..resistance is futile.
Sharia is critical to the balance of life for humankind...that means
1)mass conversion in large areas of the world.
2) Implementation of Sharia in those parts.
This has happened for 1400 years ...and will continue to do so. Sorry for this sad news for the infidel....but the sooner you get used to the news ...the quicker we can have peace all round...there is no need for violence...let 's just wait for the Calipha's take on this.
Quantum ..so Allah has no concept to reality...but just who do you think created all things in the universe ....who created YOU...why it was Allah.
My advice...no violence...listen to the Koran with your eyes closed...let it wash over you and let conversions happen...you know it makes sense.
Jilbabs & peace.
at April 1, 2006 9:52 PM
Flat earth Naseem?
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 9:57 PM
Naseem=Tokyo Rose.
Islam: The "holy" religion of "holy" principles of a "holy" god that furthers itself through unholy acts by unholy, barbarous people. Lies, deceits, violence, murder, and all manner of abominable sins are but mere tools to bring about an end that is supposed to be "holy."
Would Naseem wish to comment?
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 10:37 PM
Nassem my friend, I am always glad to see you are safe and sound, my best to you and yours. As far me being “angry” well, I didn’t write this but it might explain things.
THE FINAL
INSPECTION
The Marine stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.
"Step forward now, Marine,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To My Church have you been true?"
The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
"No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.
I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.
But, I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.
And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.
I know I don't deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.
If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand.
There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the Marine waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.
"Step forward now, you Marine,
You've borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell."
~Author Unknown~
at April 1, 2006 10:37 PM
Naseem (and I am not sure why I bother)
There a few serious key points you seem to miss.
Allah did NOT create the world.
The world was -- secular point of view - a delightful accident which science has come a great deal of the way towards proving.
Christian/Jewish point of view -- Created by God -- who is NOT allah. allah, is nothing more than a holdover pagan idol. Nothing more. A moon "god" elevated to higher status through the violent means of a greedy, power hungry man.
My God states that "thou shalt have no other God before me" (if you wish to be in the fold). Straight to the point. So, no allah for me.
For Secularists, no god at all. And that is their right. Any "god" who doesn't allow free will is a needy insecure twerp.
I think you are delusional. This is not based soley on your choice of worship, but by your seeming inability to get your head around the fact that you will never convince me, others here, Jews, Christians, Hindus, and secularists of all sorts all around the world.
We don't want your sorry pathetic excuse for a religion. If you only wanted to be left alone to practice it yourself, I would defend your right to do so. But you want to IMPOSE it.
That I will defend against in whatever manner is required of me. Have you read Vatican II? There is such a thing as a just war, and for Christians, in a just war killing is not a sin.
There is a fine line that separates your ideology from mine. Mine is that I don't impose it on other people. But you better believe in the similarity that my ideology has room in it for armed resistance.
Leave us be, or face the consequences. I hear more and more about this every day. EVERY DAY from random people. I don't even start the conversations anymore. The massive silent majority of America (which crosses all the red state blue state division) is DONE with this. It has been quietly hashed out at dinner tables all over America, even my liberal friends have finally expressed concern, we are, as a people, on to you and what you want. And, the one thing I will give you is that at least YOU admit your aims. But you will not realize them in this country. And we won't let you take Europe either.
Captalist Pigs we are! And we need modern, sane trading partners -- we'll bail Europe out of this mess and lock the gate at the far end of the Balkans. Failure to heed that traditional line again may touch off consequences that lead to the end of Islamic humanity but I am quite confident the rest of us will go on.
I am sorry to have to say this. I wish that all people in the world could just get along. I believe that at the level of the individual most people are the same and want love, respect, and security. But brainwashed from birth - the preaching of submission eradicates the individual in favor of a twisted hive mind, I fear that there can be no meaningful discourse with the Muslim world.
The "moderate Mulsims" I was hoping for have failed to materialize, I see every day that Islam simply is NOT the relgion of peace. And I am ready to support leaders who step up to handle that reality.
And at dinner tables around the country, that sentiment is being repeated with ever increasing regularity.
You all tipped your hand too early.
And you just weren't holding enough high cards.
Posted by: toleranceorappeasement? at April 1, 2006 10:45 PM
Freedom, It may be free, but it ain't cheap!
God Bless Islime-free America!!!
Posted by: Ironman Hondo at April 1,2006 02:42PM
----------------
To paraphrase what hondo said: Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
------------
Let the muslims gather together, live and pray in their enclaves across this great land. This is best idea ever that has been presented by the muslims in America. If they need help, I will vote for this one and help them gather into thier enclaves.
Prepare, be armed be ready.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
at April 1, 2006 10:54 PM
Loved the poem Ronin.
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 10:57 PM
Thanks freewoman, I got it in an email and just had to share. I hope Naseem liked it, she only talks to me so I can save her from an islamic hell.
Posted by: Ronin at April 1, 2006 11:03 PM
Issue her a fatwa Ronin.
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 11:11 PM
Hmmm issue a fatwa, great idea freewoman, here is a great one:
You can not teach islam in any manner which insults anyone or their religious beliefs.
That should do it, islam can no longer be taught, ever.
Imam Ronin.
at April 1, 2006 11:17 PM
I will issue one also.
Do not force your religion on anyone.
Imamma Freewoman
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 11:28 PM
Naseem -
You ended by stating that "....you know it makes sense."
No, my dear, Islam does NOT make sense - that's part of what's frustrating in listening to you justify this evil man, Muhammad. He was a vile and murderous pediphile, who received "revelations" during his many seizures - perhaps they were epileptic seizures. He spent way too much time by himself - probably smoked crack - or sniffed some sort of halucinagenic (sp), and then decided that he was a prophet - that he was special - please!
I'm sorry, but this prophet of Islam, that you and others follow; and his psychotic delusions, DO NOT make sense. Period.
I think Muhammad was a religious person, who simply became mentally ill, and that he went off of the deep end. I don't believe he's a prophet at all. Wait - I take that back - he's a "false" prophet. Sorry.
Yes, I believe that there is a God that made the universe, and that He made each one of us, but it isn't the god you worship. Now that, that makes sense!
Posted by: champ at April 1, 2006 11:30 PM
My thinking is, you can't change the general thought of religion to fit your mood.
For instance, muslims say there is no compulsion in islam. But then, they want to kill you if you want to leave. To the civilized world they say, oh, we don't do that anymore,yet look what the Afghan man went through a week ago.
A man's word is his honor. And an honest man doesn't go back on his word. There is no such man in islam.
Posted by: freewoman at April 1, 2006 11:43 PM
Free of gangs?? The whole friggin' ummah is a street gang.
Posted by: Infidel33 at April 2, 2006 12:04 AM
P.J.;
I thank you for the compliment. But being serious, I gave four years of my life to my country. to defend the Constitution of the United States. And I'll be damned if I allow my country to fall under the influence of Islime. My oath to defend my country did not end when I was HONORABLY discharged from the Marine Corps. And a vast majority of former servicemembers share the same feelings. This is not a show for me, this is serious! I met the Islamofeces enemy in 1986 while in Copenhagen, Denmark. And I know from personal experience, THEY HATE US!!! And why? Because we are a free people. And there is nothing more that an Islamofeces terrorist wants than our total and complete surrender and subjection to Islime. Nuts to That!!!
Dumb by choice Muslims like Naseem are too afraid to live free. That is why they are such slaves to a religion that has no relation to peace than war.
If you notice, Muslims like Naseem and Defender of Islam never answer challenges to Islam as far as the terrorist and calls for jihad are concerned. Naseem may try, but it is to no avail. A lot of us that post on this website are too smart and knowledgable to be sucked in or fooled. They never answer the call when as to defend the numerous suras that call for a Muslim to kill all that reject Islam or convert from Islam. Maybe because it's too hard to defend the indefensable.
But trust me J.P., I'm very serious about my freedoms. My grandfather and others like him fought too hard for us to have them to give them up for dhimmitude and Islimemic rule. I didn't give four years of my life to my country for the stupid politicians to bow down to some foreign enemy in sheeps clothing. They may not take freedom seriously, but "We the People" do. And if it means taking them out by ballot or bullet, they will be removed.
Freedom, It maybe free, but it aint cheap!
May the Wings of Liberty never lose a Feather!!
God Bless America!!!
at April 2, 2006 12:19 AM
Hondo -
First, I would personally like to thank you for putting your life on the line so that I (we) can live in a free society. Thank you!
Do you mind my asking when/where you served? Maybe you mentioned that in a previous post, but I'm kind-a new here.
Posted by: champ at April 2, 2006 12:56 AM
And so goes the clash of Religion and Country and Thought.....
"Thou seeth the mountains and think them firmly fixed, but they shall pass away as the clouds".
Posted by: jehana at April 2, 2006 1:31 AM
jehana - where did that quote come from?
Posted by: champ at April 2, 2006 3:04 AM
now they've act. islamic has declared war to infidel since 1400 years ago. it's the time for all of us to stop the insanity of islam, right now or not forever. first what you have to do is tell about all of islamic lie in your family, schools, your friends.
Nassem, you won't see america islamised. but you will see, starting from america and other west countries, islam will be defeated.
I will tell to all of west people about islamic lie in here Indonesia. islamic tolerance is just a myth. don't trust to this big lie.
Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at April 2, 2006 3:16 AM
Assalmu-Laikum,
Thank you all for comments. So many of them aggressive & pompus.
Hondo...why R u serving those that made hell for your ansestors. You owe it to them to take a nice african name such as muapau or mwuanga...swahili is your lanugauge...you need justice & you won't get that from the infidel...only Islam can set u peoples free. The infidel simply uses you more...wise us & be free.
Ronin...Allah Kher....I have hopes for you coming to your senses too...you know a little bit about Islam...your r no imam...buy u could use one.
People like champ....you r new to tha game...learn from both sides..."judge...lest you be judged".
I can understand a lot of aggro from the peoples here. It is like a child causing much hassle for the parents before going to sleep.
Much love is required to soothe the child, much patience is required to calm the rowdy child.
You are yet young and inexperienced in the ways of Islam....rich are those in the understanding of Allah. Here r some examples.
1) Al ketheb bem'hallu ebada. (Lying in its proper place is equal to worship). If the odd white lie helps the child sleep...this is permissible....do we not see example in nature, does the elephant use his tusk teeth for eating, does the crocodile really cry ...see these allah's creations...learn from them.
2) The Son of the Rabbi fasts and prays while the son of the wicked dances and sings.
Allah does not like so much dancing & singing...unless victory is in the hands. Needless weekend singing & dancing takes away from the real purpose of singing...this needs to be tempered ...Islam will bring disciplines back into the life of indiviuuals. We all need the fast & prayer in our lives...did not Allah create ramdan especially for u...don't be so ungrateful to Allah (swt).
Teach your childrens..."If you cannot be a lighthouse, at least be a candle for Islam".
Peace & Jilbabs be with you soon.
at April 2, 2006 7:14 AM
Prove allah!
Posted by: NC_patriot at April 2, 2006 12:33 AM
Sure, the proof would arrive at the right time, if not already.
From http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=their+neck+sky&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all we have:
===
If (such) were Our Will, We could send down to them from the sky a Sign, to which they would bend their necks in humility.
( سورة الشعراء , Ash-Shuara, Chapter #26, Verse #4) (Yusuf Ali translation)
===
at April 2, 2006 7:44 AM
Mohideen, ... brother of the umma,
Allah Kher & Assalamau-laikum to you. May Allah bring you much success in your quest for more miracle proofs within the koran.
Like Mohd (saw) you too are a slave of allah and tied to Islam...in this respect you & I are much alike.
I have done much dawa in 2 years defending the principles of Islam in this infidel blog under the most intense emotional pressure. My shor got caught in the earthquake and was badly injured...some of the infidel wished him dead...(some were sympathetic too).
I am Ahmadi, I have done Allah's (peaceful only) dawa and I AM MUSLIM...but the infidel here don't belive it.
Brother of the Umma Mohideen...tell all infidel here that in your opinion that this Ahmadi IS muslim too. This is very important for me.
Come on Mohideen ...please do this for me!
at April 2, 2006 9:18 AM
Islam: The "holy" religion of "holy" principles of a "holy" god that furthers itself through unholy acts by unholy, barbarous people. Lies, deceits, violence, murder, and all manner of abominable sins are but mere tools to bring about an end that is supposed to be "holy."
Would Naseem wish to comment?
at April 2, 2006 9:30 AM
Ironman Hondo is most certainly a proud and free man and will have nothing to do with idiots reasoning like 'Mo is the messenger of allah' because it says so in the Koran and because the Koran says that "Mo is the messenger of Allah' because its written in the Koran it just goes to say 'Mo is the...'
Mo was a monster and his slaves are lunatics.
But Ironman doesn't need me to defend him, I'm sure he can speak for himself...?
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at April 2, 2006 9:41 AM
The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in 1954 in Brown v. Board of Education that the "separate but equal" paradigm is fundamentally at odds with the United States Constitution. Attempts to build an exclusionary Islamic "millet" in the United States will fail. The American people made their choice on this matter more than 50 years ago and they haven't changed their minds.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at April 2, 2006 9:41 AM
Naseem my misguided friend, thanks for the blessing, I hope you and yours are well. I wanted to see if you read this article. It is posted on DW.
Pakistan: Ahmadi girl reburied after Muslim clerics object to her burial in Muslim cemetery
It seems some people in Pakistan do not consider you a muslim at all. I am not sure how many feel this way but I know enough to know, it places Ahmadi's in potential danger. History has show a small percentage of muslim youths can apparently turn violent at any time against anyone them deem as non muslim. My western mind wonders why you defend islam when muslim’s continuously tell Ahmadi’s they are not muslims, they could also use that claim to justify any harm inflicted on you. The way I understand it and please correct me if I am wrong. The Ahmadi sect is among the least violent religious orders in muslim controlled lands. If I am right about that, it stands to reason unless your sect turns violent you can not ever be seen as true muslims. As an American I support your right to believe as you will but you are defending a people who would destroy you given the chance. I see muslim women traveling and shopping alone in Tampa almost daily. I have never seen (nor would I allow it to continue) anyone, verbally or physically abuse them. Normally people just see them as a curiosity and give a quick smile and ignore them. Of course that is here in the states where anyone can travel safely and the right to do so is protected by law. As I understand it you can not travel alone in many islamic countries nor would it be safe to do so, add the fact they do not consider you a muslim and your personal safety is in extreme danger. I realize you consider yourself a muslim but reality is allah does not seem to protect the Ahmadi from other types of muslims. This seems to me to be a huge burden; do you support a religion that endangers you and your family? Well, you have to work through that one on your own, be safe, I enjoy chatting with you.
Imam Ronin, (Btw, there is not test to be an Imam so I can claim the title if I want)
at April 2, 2006 11:10 AM
Brother … Mohideen...tell all infidel here that in your opinion that this Ahmadi IS muslim too.
Posted by: Naseem at April 2, 2006 09:18 AM
Dear sister Naseem,
Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmathullahi.
In http://ahmadiyya.ws/text/questionsanswersislamahmadiyya/differenceahmadimuslim.shtml we find:
===
The Ahmadi Muslim is a Mujahid, the non-Ahmadi a Qa'id.
===
Everyone understands Mujahid, a person in jihad. From http://www.babynamesnthings.com/BabyNameQaid.html we get:
===
Qaid
Steersman. Leader.
===
A steersman if it means steering others also means leader. So, your people claim that you are Mujahid and the others are leaders. I do not understand what is objectionable in this.
All of us are Muslims; so you are my sister-in-Islam.
You have mentioned that your husband suffered injuries in the recent earthquake. I would like to record that there is a new class of weapons – Quantum Potential Weapons – that are claimed to be capable of inducing earthquakes. Israel is supposed to be one of the 5 or 6 countries with this weapons technology. Because of the existence of these weapons, the earthquake that hurt your husband might have been the handiwork of Israel. Thus, your husband has possibly suffered an attack by the enemy. Let us pray to Allah SWT to cure your husband and restore full health. Aameen, Aameen, Ya Rabbil Aalameen.
I just read the post by Ronin. My comments refute the news item quoted by Ronin.
Unless I know why the other groups in Pakistan and elsewhere do not accept you as part of Islam, I am at a loss to clarify. Islam is not a straight-jacket. Islam permits quite a bit of latitude in its practice. So, it is expected of all of us to accept small differences and move forward.
at April 2, 2006 11:59 AM
Mohideen my friend, I just saw this:
“I just read the post by Ronin. My comments refute the news item quoted by Ronin”.
I have to congratulate you Sir, excepting an Ahmadi as a muslim is very progressive. You have no need to refute my comments as I never considered Naseem to be anything other than a muslim. I believe that was some Paki Imam who decided she did not qualify. My other comments were also factual, Nassem would be safer as an Ahmadi muslim here in Tampa, Florida than she would in parts of islamic dominated countries. I simply warned her of the threat. If somehow you are right and Israel has this magical earthquake weapon then obviously they need to work on their strategic security because someone talked. Because earthquakes can do much more damage than a nuke can do, the Iranians making calls to “erase” Israel is potential suicide (illegal under sharia). Obviously Israel has the power to destroy iran with a series of earthquakes. I hereby issue a new fatwa urging Israel to use this weapon. The profit himself conducted spoiling attacks when he felt he was going to be attacked, so I hear by give Israel permission to do the same to Iran. After all, they are not Arabs but Persians and hence not real muslims anyway. As far as my new title of “Imam” I checked and for less than $100 American dollars, I can buy a business license, business cards make a webpage and legally teach as a muslim cleric and declare all the fatwas I can write. I love living in a free country.
Imam Ronin
at April 2, 2006 1:36 PM
"Islam is not a straight-jacket. Islam permits quite a bit of latitude in its practice.
You've got to be kidding!
at April 2, 2006 2:09 PM
"Islam is not a straight-jacket."
Yes, I agree that it isn't confining, because like all diseases it must consume ever more and more lives. Like all syndromes and dystrophes, it hungers healthy flesh, only to discard it for new life.
It is more like a nation of lepers. It is a nation that seeks more and more sane, whole beings to infect with its sickness, until the whole world is contaminated.
Islam: The "holy" religion of "holy" principles of a "holy" god that furthers itself through unholy acts by unholy, barbarous people. Lies, deceits, violence, murder, and all manner of abominable sins are but mere tools to bring about an end that is supposed to be "holy."
It is a human movement whose only power is derived through its followers. And, like all human movements, it will fail. First Egypt, and then Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan will turn to the one true God of the Bible. Then, they will join with Israel to worship and serve Him together. The muslim dream to destroy Israel will never come to be:
God said it will happen, and there is nothing that islam can do to stop it.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 2, 2006 2:15 PM
Naseem, so you are AHMADI. that is so sad for you, I want to tell you a fact in my country Indonesia, that moslems in here don't want AHMADI as a part of Islam. Many Ahmadis in here live under Indonesian moslems pressure. Many Ahmadis houses has burned by Indonesian moslems, Ahmadis mosques has been attack by moslems. Indonesian moslems treat Ahmadis as bad as Indonesian Christian. Ahmadis have given choice by Indonesian moslems to return to "real Islam" or make a new religion but not as a part of Islam.
Ahmadis cannot live free in here Indonesia or other Islamic countries. Wherever moslems have a major population, you Ahmadis cannot live free. Ahmadis live in fear because their faith, and this is ISLAM that makes you Ahmadis live in fear, not Jews nor Christian. I'm sure that Ahmadis can live free and without fear in America or other west countries, because west countries law will protect you and your faith.
But it is so sad that you are still supporting your moslem brothers agenda to take over America. America and other west countries is our last hope to defeat the evil Islam. If America already takeover by Islamic, not just non moslems that will lose their freedom, but also all of your Ahmadis brothers in America will lose their freedom also like in here Indonesia.
Sorry if I have to tell you about this fact.
Naseem, you have a choice, be with Islam or be with us freedom lovers.
Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at April 2, 2006 2:26 PM
the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity.
Posted by: patriot2 at April 2, 2006 12:44 AM
------------
Patriot:
A Christian Patriot forgives the enemy for being the enemy, but pulls the trigger and sends them to the judgement of God.
When the enemy stands in front of this Christian, the enemy will get the opportunity to see God.
The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost.
Posted by: Texican
at April 2, 2006 3:12 PM
"America already takeover by Islamic, not just non moslems that will lose their freedom, but also all of your Ahmadis brothers in America will lose their freedom also like in here Indonesia."
Islam will never run out of enemies. If there aren't "infidels" or "apostates" to kill, there will be Shiites, Sunnis, and any of a number of other followers of Mohammad who supposedly aren't worshipping allah "properly." If the world's course was to be that Islam would dominate the Earth, then the killing would not stop until every human being were dead.
Fortunately, there is a cure for Islam, and God himself will cure it soon enough.
at April 2, 2006 3:13 PM
once again i want to tell all of you west people how to deal with moslem like Mohideen Ibramsha. don't give a damn chance for them to talk their stupid bullshit. like other Indonesian hypocrite moslems in here, moslems always and always blame for their stupidity to Jews and west people. This is the mindset of moslems that has been created by Islam since they've been born to this world.
I know that many of moslems children has been brainwashed by their parents or Islamic cleric to hate non moslems. Every Friday prayer in mosque I always hear from their loudspeaker, that Islam cleric spread their hate messages to all of moslems which follow the prayer. This is what I usually face in my place.
I think the best way to counter their Islamic propaganda is by make a new curriculum in your school to expose Islamic lie to your children, before they reach your children. The sooner your children know the danger of Islam, the sooner we will win this war. I've already teach by my parents about the danger of Islam since I was 9 years old. I've to thank to my parents for the lesson about the danger of Islam that they gave to me. I will do the same thing to my children also.
What I've learn from this is we prepare the next freedom fighters generation to continuing our fighting against Islam. This will be a long fighting. If we don't do this, we will loose our fighting. Don't let your valuable generation to be brainwashed by Islam.
This is the way Islam has done since 1400 years ago to moslems children.
Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at April 2, 2006 3:20 PM
Hi Naseem -
You stated, "judge....lest you be judged."
Huh? I thoroughly believe in that statement when used in the right context, but I'm not entirely sure why you're saying this to me. Is it because of what I said about Muhammad? I'm not judging Muhammad, Naseem, I'm stating facts about his life. Ok - maybe he never smoked crack, etc, but everything else I said about him IS true.
And if I were a murdering, pediphile-prophet, who promotes and incites others to go out and do the same, then I would fully EXPECT to be judged and hopefully prosecuted - and put behind bars where I belong!!! If we aren't to "judge", given the context you are using, then there's no point in having and using a criminal justice system.
It sounds like you're saying that I have NO BUSINESS pointing out Muhammad's glaring crimes against humanity, and yet you have done the same on other threads!
I may be new to JW, but I have read some of your previous posts; where you yourself "question" some of Muhammad's practices. I remember in one of your posts you commented on his young wife - and that you thought that was wrong!
So I'm a little confused as to why you said that, but more importantly, puzzled by your lack of loyalty to your own prophet, Muhammad. I know you didn't like some of the things he's done, by your own admission, and yet you continue to defend Islam. This doesn't make sense!
And I'm not new to this subject - huh? I may be new to posting on JW, but this is not a new subject for me. Where do you come up with these things?!?
Maybe it's a "language barrier thing"....I don't know....but I'm having trouble following the direction you're going.
Peace to you Naseem! Hugs too!
Posted by: champ at April 2, 2006 6:28 PM
Hello champ,
Warmest greetings to you, I too am confused about you. You offer such friendship as an infedel to me & yet there is such hatred to my religion I am confused.
It is a great day for me ....for the 1st time ever , another muslim has siad that I too an Ahmadi am a muslim. Mohideen has agreed tha I am a muslim, now I onlyt have another 1billion muslims to convince. I will be doing this to my dying breath.
good luck to you
Posted by: Naseem at April 2, 2006 6:50 PM
Hi Naseem -
I understand what you're saying, and I apologize for the confusion; but I see "you" and "Muhammad" as two separate people.
I'm speaking more to the things Muhammad has "done", and those things make me angry, because I don't believe a loving God would approve of some of his actions.
And to your other point, there are many people in my life who don't agree with my faith, but I'm still friends with them; I still love them and treat them with respect. In fact - we've gotten into some very heated disagreements about God, but we still manage to come away as friends afterwards.
How does the Quran deal with sin - with wrongdoing - what is the Quran's remedy?
Peace to you!
Posted by: champ at April 2, 2006 7:19 PM
GwynnOak in Baltimore is only a hop, skip and a jump from a very large jewish community. I wonder how they will feel about this?
Posted by: Borg at April 2, 2006 10:00 PM
What Islam fails to acknowledge is that each man is like a god. He is able to choose his own destiny and make decisions--wrong or right--that have a corresponding consequences. What separates us from animals is our ability to learn from mistakes and to distinguish possible outcomes for every action based on a collective experience. Call it divine influence, or whatever, each person has the ability to know right from wrong in each instance based on the result that will likely occur (it can be argued that conscience is God given).
Each person also has the ability to choose right or wrong based on perceived benefit to self or others. Generous people are the ones who strive to benefit others, while selfish are those who strive to benefit themselves. Just as morally correct are the ones who attempt to maintain a healthy balance of both, since it is most often possible to benefit both.
Our greatest gift from our creator was this brain and the logic that allows our contemplation. If Allah exists, imagine the greatness of our brains to even contemplate his existence... The same could be said about God.
The mistake that Islam makes is disavowing man's capability to be wrong--this is important! Choosing wrong allows each person the ability to learn that bad decisions are indeed bad and that consequences are, indeed, inescapable (though reality is often contrary to what is perceived as just). God decides what these consequences will be and in what manner (the spiritual)--while we decide our own consequences to regulate human behavior (the secular).
The greatest result of man's ability to learn from mistakes is that while the spirit is corruptable, it is also redeamable. Man can learn to be good just as easily as he can learn to be evil. If man can learn to improve, then it follows that he is perfectable--the perfectability of man's soul is the basis for "hope" in the Christian religion. It follows, therefore, that if man can improve, he ought to be given a great number of opportunities to learn from his mistakes--his life should not be ended prematurely through a barbaric act because of something written 1,400 or 2,000 years ago.
More importantly, it ought to be acknowledged that truth is SUBJECTIVE. How is it that Abraham, Christ, and Muhammad all were prophets of the same "one God" but all received different messages? Either God is playing tricks on us or people introduce biases into what they perceive is God's will. I think the latter is most likely the probable reason. And, could it be Muslims, it is just as likely that Muhammad introduced biases as any of the other prophets? If Jesus could be wrong, then so could Muhammad?
And guess what, each and every person also makes decisions based on his own perception of truth and justice and possible consquences and what he believes is right or wrong. Each person has his own values. This means that each prophet could just as likely have been wrong based on his biases...just as each one of us can be wrong today. This is what makes each religion true to some people and false to others. Therefore it should be up to the individual to decide if Abraham's or Jesus' or Muhammad's version of truth is the correct one...and whether God is vengeful, loving, or otherwise.
Reality check...There is NO SUCH THING as OBJECTIVE TRUTH. Observance of any perceived truth OUGHT NOT BE COMPULSORY. What about this do you not understand Muslims?
Posted by: Eudaemon at April 2, 2006 10:51 PM
Eudaemon -
So you're saying that there's no objective truth? Or, more accurately, that one's prejudices prevent them from perceiving objective truth with accuracy. You sound like an existentialist/Muslim - are you?
If so, then how do you sort out what real truth is, from your own subjective truth?
Posted by: champ at April 2, 2006 11:21 PM
yahannbiimu - 2:15 PM
From the look of things, the reality is that to each Muslim every other is a heretic. "A house divided cannot stand."
Posted by: allen at April 2, 2006 11:25 PM
Oh I can't put up with it any longer:
Naseem: 'chilren' is already a plural, you don't add an 's'. The singular is 'child'.
Posted by: Lili at April 2, 2006 11:27 PM
Champ - I'm not religious...nor am I an existentialist.
What I am saying is that no religion is objective truth. If God has a law that governs people and he decides one day to give it to a group of people who have not been blessed with knowledge of right and wrong (show me a group of people who don't)by having a prophet, any prophet, write it down--he can't do so without introducing bias. With the exception of the Jews, who claim that God etched the ten commandments himself, all law was written by man. And man, no matter which religion, is believed to be fallible due to his corruptibility, biases, etc.
Christianity skirts this issue somewhat because Christians believe that Jesus was without sin and incorruptible--the perfect man who was able to express God's will without bias. But even the words of Christ weren't written by Himself--it was written at least 100 years afterward by a normal human being with numerous biases. Therefore, why Muslims, who will no doubt say that Muhammad was a prophet--not a God, believe that the text written by such are without err is beyond me.
So if God does exist could it simply be that his true message has never been completely interepreted by man and that truth has been corrupted for all time and will continue to be for all eternity until such time that man himself becomes perfect? And, if so, and until that time, shouldn't it be up to the individual to decide which religion/message most suits his fancy? This is what I meant by my statement "There is NO SUCH THING as OBJECTIVE TRUTH. Observance of any perceived truth OUGHT NOT BE COMPULSORY."
Posted by: Eudaemon at April 3, 2006 12:41 AM
shouldn't it be up to the individual to decide which religion/message most suits his fancy? "There is NO SUCH THING as OBJECTIVE TRUTH. Observance of any perceived truth OUGHT NOT BE COMPULSORY."
Posted by: Eudaemon at April 3, 2006 12:41 AM
How many times do you permit an individual to decide which religion/ message suits her / his fancy?
at April 3, 2006 5:31 AM
How many times do you permit an individual to decide which religion/ message suits her / his fancy?
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha posted April 3, 2006 at 5:31 am.
An American would ask, how many times will you permit an individual to decide which religion is right for you and your family.
That is the biggest reason we are so resistant to islam or any other cult. Americans are by nature rugged individualists, raised from birth to chart their own destiny. We encourage self-expression in our children and you seek to control yours by force. We teach ours to decide their own path and to except the consequences of their actions. You turn your children into mindless drones, teaching through route memorization. Some (not all) islamic cultures start early with the concept of violence is ok as long as you have religious justification. We teach our children violence is never the answer and only used as a last resort. We also answer posters and try to explain our side. You pick one isolated phrase and try and use it as proof your argument had merit, skipping over questions which you can not explain, as by answering them truthfully you discredit your own side. Unless you can come up with something original and not the standard muslim troll rhetoric, I will no longer waste my time talking to you. If you so strongly believe in the lies of islam, you are already predestined to meet a US Marine and he will convince you of the errors of your way. Good day to you Sir.
at April 3, 2006 7:12 AM
The defeat of the Muslims in 1967 came to be, because God's messenger Isaiah said it would happen.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 1, 2006 10:52 AM
and
Wait for the end of the current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at April 1, 2006 02:53 PM
From http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/010815.php
and
In this page, God said it will happen, and there is nothing that islam can do to stop it.
Posted by: yohannbiimu at April 2, 2006 02:15 PM
Please see http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-04-01-clark-war-plan_x.htm in which we find:
===
The retired Army general and NATO military commander argued in the Democrats' weekly radio address that the United States needs a new plan to win the war on terror after failing to find Sept. 11 terror mastermind Osama bin Laden, fighting an unnecessary war in Iraq and stumbling in halting weapons proliferation in North Korea and Iran.
===
You seek a new plan only when the current plan is failing.
We repeat: God Almighty does not take sides in the affairs on earth, and thus victory or failure in wars does not affect the faith. It is God Almighty’s way of testing the faith of His creation.
at April 3, 2006 8:29 AM
you are already predestined to meet a US Marine and he will convince you of the errors of your way.
Posted by: Ronin at April 3, 2006 07:12 AM
Dear Ronin,
Thanks for answering a question addressed to Eudaemon. I still look forward to a reply from Eudaemon. May I request him to kindly explain his post?
I would be too happy to have the occasion to talk to the US marine coming to meet me. I do hope, Inshah Allah, after discussing with me he would revert to Islam.
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha at April 3, 2006 8:38 AM
Champ;
I served in the Marine Corps from 1983 to 1987. I also went into the reserves in 1987 to 1988. I was in during the Presidency of Ronaldus Magnus, our greatest President in the last two decades.
I'd never take back my time in service to my country, and if I could, I'd do it again. I met some great Americans while serving, and I met my share of bad seeds as well. But we all had that one thing in common, We were MARINES!!! Good or bad, WE WERE MARINES!!!
God Bless America,
and the United States Marine Corps!!!
at April 3, 2006 9:13 AM
-Mohideen
If you post here, anyone can answer. If you don't like that, post somewhere else. Ronin has an excellent point that apparently you can't answer. Who the hell are you to "permit" anything? No one needs your or anyone else's permission to choose or change their beliefs. The sheer arrogance of mohammedans is stunning. I sometimes wonder if you people are serious. I imagine its partly the "infidel" worlds fault. The fact that the murderous delusional cult of islam hasn't been wiped out is taken by most mohammedans as an inability to do so. You've been tolerated in practicing this garbage for a while now. If I were you, I wouldn't push my luck.
Don't hold your breath anticipating converting that grunt or Marine. You probably won't see him coming.
Posted by: Eisenhund at April 3, 2006 10:14 AM
How many times do you permit an individual to decide which religion/ message suits her / his fancy?
Posted by: Mohideen Ibramsha posted April 3, 2006 at 5:31 am.
If you generally accept that a person who leaves your faith may come back to it, then you will allow them that chance until he dies (of natural causes). Why have a time limit for salvation? Who set this time limit--God?
As far as introducing human biases into religious text is concerned, why do the Muslims think that the third Caliphs somehow devined which texts were to be preserved and which were to be thrown out. Was the Caliph receiving special guidance from God and, if so, was Muhammad not the last prophet after all? Think about what I am saying and you will understand that the Qur'an is just as corrupted as you would believe the Torah or Bible to be.
Posted by: Eudaemon at April 3, 2006 10:30 AM
Eudaemon, if muhammad was a profit so am I, allah wills me to insult islam daily. I was sent to explain to the world that he was playing a practical joke on muhhamad when he sent Gabrail to talk to him. He never meant this to go so far and he is sorry. Until yesterday I was simple Imam now I am a profit (ok, that's a bit over the top) tomorrow, who knows?
Posted by: Ronin at April 3, 2006 10:41 AM
Naseem;
Swahili is not my language. And I would never dishonor myself nor my country by switching names to some foreign name. And yes, it's true that this country made life for my ancestors hell, but that is what make this country even better. In spite of all that my people/forefathers went through, the Constitution is what allowed them to achieve the greatest accomplishments in modern times. First off, true freedom!! The freedom to march. The freedom to protest. The freedom to demand our rights as American, to vote ,to be respected, and to achieve the American dream to live as God would have us to live. America isn't perfect, but at least we can say so. And as far as justice is concerned. Ask a Mr. Delabeckworth about justice. This piece of human debris shot a voter registar Medger Evers for registering black people to vote in Mississppi. Medger was shot in the back in front of his wife and children. The first time Delabeckworth was tried, he was found innocent by an all white jury. It took over twenty years, but Mr. Delabeckworth later got what he deserved. Emprisonment! There are many injustices that are being corrected as time passes, but justice is being served!
And as far as Islam setting me free? There are Africans now that live under some kind of Islamic slavery. Be it in the Sudan, Maritania, Morocco, or Somalia. The Africans in these countries are forced to either switch to Islam or pay the totally unfair taxes(jizya)or die. In Somalia the ruling Muslims starved the infidels to death until the United States intervened, or as most Muslims call, "the Great Satan!" intervened.
And as far as serving someone, I serve Jesus! I'm not perfect in all of my ways, but I'm not what I used to be either. I'm not a Christian, but I follow the teachings of Jesus and the Holy Bible! I choose not to be called a Christian because of my own personal convictions. I prefer the term Bible believer. In the book of the Acts of the Apostles, believers were first called "Christians" by men, not God the Father, nor Jesus. (To my knowledge).
In my hometown of Chicago, we have the Nation of Islam lead by some one that I'm sure that you're familiar with, Louis Farrakhan. Many think that he is a great man. To me he's a charlitian and the worst kind of religious leader. An anti-christ. During the first Savior's Day, he made the blasphemous claim that Isaiah 53:4-5 was referring to him sufferring for the so called "blackman" in America. What a load!!! "Calypso" Louis FarraConman and Jesse "Jackass" Jackson are the ones that are now not only trying to keep me enslaved into the "victim's mentality, but are trying to convince me that America is not allowing me to get ahead. denying me my freedoms! Nothing could be further from the truth. I work hard everyday to achieve what I have through Jesus. Not some program or government sponsered hand out.
I am the creame that rises to the top during and under adverse times. America works, it's the stupid politicans that mess it all up. Just like in the days of my African forefathers, when slavery was legal. The slave owners were not only white but pastors of churches!! These "christians" were the crueliest of all the slave owners. They were without mercy when it came to the slaves. And for a while in America, as the church went, so went the government. Just like in a Muslim country!!! But yet the rule of law took hold instead of rule of "church". You see, Naseem, these pastors were using the Bible to keep the slaves as slaves. They twisted the Bible to subjugate the slaves. And to add insult to injury, forbid them to read or to learn how to read. Just like women in Muslim countries! These false prophets of the Gospel knew that knowlegde was power. But through Christ Jesus there were some white Americans or "infidels" that did their moral duty and taught the slaves to read and to write anyway. "This" was the beginning of the liberation of the blackman in America. What the true leaders of this land gave us, the charlitians "Calypso" Louis FarraConman and Jesse "Jackass" Jackson are trying to convince black people to give back, our freedom. There are true Americans such as Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell and Walt Williams that are not letting these charlitians get away with it.
I have wised up & I am free, indeed!!! It's you that needs to wise up & be free. There are male teachers in Afghanstan that are losing their lives because they are trying to teach Muslim women how to read, write, and to think for themselves. It's the extermist Taliban remnants that are carrying out Islamic law by the sword of Islam!!! Taking the heads of the teachers who would dare teach woman against koranic teachings and Mohammadan law. Naseem, if you do have your own business in Pakistan, it's only by the grace of God the Father, not Allah, that you have it. Most women in Islamic countries don't have it as good as you do. I get the feeling that you are a good person. But you're infected with the Islamic posion of enslavement. If you are as enlightened as you say that you are, then you should be helping your Muslim sisters to better themselves, to become self sufficent, self reliant. To OWN their own business like you. Stop being enlightened and become a beacon to your Muslim sisters. Many were the black people that became the beacon. It may have cost them their lives, but that is the price that some may/will have to pay for, FREEDOM!!!
God Bless America!!!
at April 3, 2006 10:57 AM
There was a period of over 100 years after Muhammad supposedly received his message from Gabriel before his teachings were written down. Even if Muhammad was perfect and received the unaltered word of God, how can it be that since he didn't write it down himself that the Qur'an can be perfect? Also--was Muhammad perfect? If he was not a god, then how could he be perfect? People have raised serious and legitimate questions about his character regarding his personal life and motivations for killing others--does this sound like a perfect person? If he was not perfect, then how can his message be perfect? If his message is not perfect then how do you choose which part of his message is right and which is wrong (the problem is compounded by apparent contradictions within the faith).
Moreover, the 100 year time period before the tenets of Islam were written down is approximately the same time that went by in the Christian faith before Jesus' teachings were written down. The propensity for people to introduce biases into the Christian faith is the same propensity that would have existed in the Islamic faith. The Catholic church and other early Christians gathered all the known books that chronicled the life of Christ--the same way that the third Caliph gathered all the teachings of Muhammad. The Christians then decided which books were apocryphal or heretical, much the same as the Caliph threw out what he did not like and kept what he did. How do these two processes differ--they don't. The arguments that Muslims make against Christianity and Judaism can easily be made against Islam. This, the Muslims should remember.
Posted by: Eudaemon at April 3, 2006 11:20 AM
Ironman
You are the man!
at April 3, 2006 11:21 AM
Ironman, well said my brother in arms, well said. I am moving on to todays subjects. Take care and stay safe.
Posted by: Ronin at April 3, 2006 11:46 AM
Ironman Hondo~ good for you. Most people who serve see what is good in their countries.
As far as Naseem telling you to learn Swahili, she surely listens to cheap talk. If she is te
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