naturally!!!! why would any civilised person be suprised by the actions of God's trash.

Keep it up!! We all know who will pay in the end.

Posted by: Zathras at May 6, 2006 2:12 PM

This is an outrage! The Brits are there helping them and they take advantage of the Brits while they're down and trying to help each other. Attacking them! Throwing stones at them! This is the thanks that the West gets for trying to help out a bunch of ungrateful barbarians. But I must digress. There are a few that know what we are there for. But if this is how the help that the West is giving them is repaid, then to hell with them! Their not smart enough to know what's good for them. If it's Islam that they want, then let them have Islam. But we can't leave now, can we? The West is committed to the cause of freedom for the Iraqi people. But if this is any indication of the commitment of the Iraqis for freedom, then it is time to leave them to the mercies of the mullahs, imans, and the ayatollahs.
The hunger for freedom has to come from the Iraqi people themselves. It becomes apparent that they don't have the gut level hunger for freedom. I don't want to cut and run, but I don't want our troops to do the freedom fighting for a bunch of ingrates.

Posted by: Ironman Hondo at May 6, 2006 2:12 PM

The world continues to be turned on its head.

The liberals in Britain now call for an exist strategy; the conservatives want to address 'problems on the ground'. As in the United States, none can face the facts: Infidels will be hated in Iraq no matter what is done because of Islam.

The 'enemy' in the so-called 'war on terror' remain unidentified. Billions lost. Lives lost. And no one in power has the sense to speak the truth, that Iraq is a lost cause, that the threat to Europe and the United States is much larger and broader than 'al Qaeda', whatever one takes that to mean. No one will dare speak the truth: Islam itself is the real problem and it must be faced sooner or later.

The BBC account of the incident is surreal: British soldiers running through the streets shooting in the air, using rubber bullets, putting on fires on tanks from molotov cocktails with extinguishers, apparently doing everything in their power to appear 'respectful' of the population while being pelted with stones, canisters of gas and small arms fire.

And the BBC reports children were killed, in their 'the-Iraqis-remain-repressed-to-this-very-day-by-the-colonialist' way. By whom? The sane might form a probable opinion.

Is there any leader who might speak the truth? Or will insanity reign until catastrophe shakes someone to into consciousness about the realities of Islam?

Posted by: JTF at May 6, 2006 2:21 PM

to fight this war, you have to fight to win it, and not go around with rubber bullets! the western presses dont say much about the new Iraqi goverment that has started to be be put together,and it wont be long that they can take control, and Western forces will leave sooner than later. l have a friend whose husband was going to go to Iraq this summer,he is in the National Guard, and now looks like he wont have to go there.but her brother is in training now. btw l gave her one of Robert's books for her husband and brother to read. My niece's fiance a Cdn is going to Afganistan, so my friends and family members need to be able to fight to win!

Posted by: Lulu at May 6, 2006 2:29 PM

In the British news media since the start of the Iraq War, there was a lot of smugly superior cant about how American troops are being too trigger-happy and bullying to the locals and that "provokes" them into violence; while British troops are more "sensitive" to the needs of the locals, more reluctant to use force, even wearing berets instead of helmets.

I wonder what the Brits will say now.

Welcome to the new postmodernist Allied armies, in which our most ruthless enemies like al-Sadr (who is likely responsible for inciting this violence) are brought *into* the government we are shedding our blood to support, in a hopeless attempt to appease them. Instead of being part of the ruling coalition, al-Sadr should be hanged and dangling from a lamp post, televised live by al-Jazeera.

Posted by: Steven L. at May 6, 2006 2:36 PM

This Muqtada Al-Sadr sickens me. Under Saddam Hussein, this coward cleric would not dare speak out against the regime that oppressed his shi'ite countrymen. Come the removal of Hussein, this yellowbelly takes on the spiritual voice of the Mehdi Army. Now he has taken 'casualties' against the British army, I relish his reaction to the possible withdrawal of the British/American forces that gave him this platform on which he has mobilised and exploited. Bring back Saddam. They say you get the government you deserve.

Posted by: western infidel at May 6, 2006 2:43 PM

Lulu says: "to fight this war, you have to fight to win it, and not go around with rubber bullets!"

Lulu,
we can't win it when we have already agreed to allow our enemies to be part of a coalition Iraqi government we are shedding our blood to support. These loons were chanting "Victory for the Mehdi Army!" as they attacked the Brit troops. And al-Sadr, leader of the Mehdi Army Shiites, is actually going to be part of the ruling coalition of Iraq. I'm not making this up; check it out for yourself.

When the U.S. Government starts allowing our enemies into a coalition government, the war is lost. It's nothing more than a face-saving ploy for the U.S. to stage a retreat while hiding behind a facade of faux achievement.

Posted by: Steven L. at May 6, 2006 2:50 PM

I just saw some live footage on CNN. Young children, some no older than five ore six, were surrounding two tanks, some older ones were supplied with molotov cocktails, some encouraged to throw rocks.

The use of children as frontline troops is a common jihadist tactic in 'Palestine' and elsewhere, of course; the Iranian human waves of young boys with keys to heaven around their necks in the Iran-Iraq war comes to mind.

Nothing new, of course. But surely in the British Parliament there will be 'shock' and 'wonder' at these events, as there will also be in the United States Congress.

Posted by: JTF at May 6, 2006 3:21 PM

Steven you maybe right, but being part of the coalition is still not controling it outright. the saying goes, keep your friends closeby, your enemies even closer comes to mind.

Posted by: Lulu at May 6, 2006 3:24 PM

The fact that this type of behaviour is felt to be permissible in public in Iraq tells one all that one needs to know about Iraq, Iraqis and islam. Undoubtedly islam leads people to abandon any moral standards they might once have had and the results are plain. Why are we surprised?

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at May 6, 2006 3:28 PM

mohammad sadeq al-sadr commands the jaish al-mahdi or army of the hidden imam.al-sadr claims the army is not his,but that of the real mahdi,the hidden imam who will soon reappear.however the hidden imam gave him stewardship over it.his followers chant bring back the hidden imam.president mahmound ahmadinejad and ayatollah ali khamanei of iran also await the hidden imam.who will only appear when chaos reins.the hidden imam will lead the shia to victory over their enemies.we can not win in iraq.be warned,get ready

Posted by: storagemanager at May 6, 2006 3:47 PM

There's only one policy which will do from now. Shoot them on sight, stop all aid to these Shiites, carpet bomb Iran, and get the hell out of Iraq. We've had enough of these dysfunctional barbarians. They deserved everything they got under Saddam Hussein. Why should we do anything for these subhumans when this is how they repay us? Hugh was right. The only good thing to come out of Iraq is the destruction of thousands of terrorists. Its time for the West to adopt the Benes-Masaryk doctrine and kick ALL Muslims out, and reclaim our civilization for ourselves.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 6, 2006 3:48 PM

Dominic,

You talk about the rule of the animal mob being permissable in public as a sign of Islam's degredation, but I can remember clearly an IRA funeral in Belfast where two Brit army servicemen were dragged from their car, beaten, and then shot. The rule of the mob existed within this Christian rabble, just as much as Islamic ones.

Posted by: albion at May 6, 2006 3:51 PM

You're right Albion. We should have taken that mob apart in Northern Ireland, but we were just as craven with the IRA as with everyone else.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 6, 2006 3:57 PM

Lets see if I have this straight;we are over in the middle east trying to replace sharia law with democracy while muslims are in the united states trying to replace democracy with sharia law. Not only that, we are told that we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here but in the next breath, so to speak, we are told to expect a nuclear/biological/chemical attack on our soil in the near future, we just don't know when, exactly. Now that's what I call progress.

Posted by: dms at May 6, 2006 4:01 PM

Yes, Muslims know how to treat other Muslims, bring back Saddam Hussein and let's put this Islam problem back under the black rock it came from.

Posted by: SirSeth at May 6, 2006 4:02 PM

JTF asks:

"Is there any leader who might speak the truth? Or will insanity reign until catastrophe shakes someone to into consciousness about the realities of Islam?"

The answer is no. There are no Western political leaders with the courage to speak the truth, and I don't even think a catastrophic event would make a difference. The triumph of liberalism and its evil partner multiculturalism have killed the West. We are just presiding over a long funeral.

Posted by: Lepanto at May 6, 2006 4:09 PM

Ignorance of Islam is the West's running sore. Why in Hell's name did we succumb to political correctness. We should have followed our ancestors doctrine and contained Islam. We should never have invited it into the West. We now know only too well that we picked the wrong side in Yugoslavia. Those Serbs knew Islam. They spent 500 years living under the Islamic yoke. If you'd been through what the Serbs went through over that period, seeing their kids kidnapped to be forcibly convertred to Islam and serve as Janissaries if they were boys or concubines if they were girls only up to 180 years ago or thereabouts, you'd have thought the same as them.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at May 6, 2006 4:12 PM

Maybe this talk of lynching, shoot on sight etc is reactionary, and illustrative of our lack of a coherent strategy as the tactics of the manipulators of the mob change. I think the point the Brits make with mob crowd control is ‘proportional escalation’ (even unto acceptable casualty rates of soldiers). This army (more than your other partner forces) has experience being garrisoned in regions that are completely hostile to them. Of course I don’t want them to end up like Gordon at Khartoum.
Now is anyone interested in developing a strategy that responds to the multi-faceted nature of this Islamic threat. No-one has been talking about using the assurgency of the Anglican church in Nigeria as a bulwark against Islamic encroachment.
Very few people are talking about how the west is being thoroughly beaten on the use of the Internet as a political medium. Our response is static and plodding, theirs is dynamic and very effective.

Posted by: albion at May 6, 2006 4:19 PM

Our looney leaders condemn soldiers on the ground
for fighting back with bullets instead of P.C smiles and multiculturalism crap! In a war you don't win battles with hands tied behind your back. Suggest sending in the sons and daughters of Blair & Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld etc to 'fight properly'and shed their blood for a 'noble cause.' Otherwise get to Hell out of it before any more Infidels suffer and die-for what??
No wonder Muslims all over the world rejoice at our stupidity.

Posted by: Morgane at May 6, 2006 4:24 PM

These people are just plain stupid. They are rabid. They do not belong in a civilized world. There is no way to educate them to live like humans nor have a caring heart to live amongst us.

Posted by: freewoman at May 6, 2006 4:37 PM

No-one has been talking about using the assurgency of the Anglican church in Nigeria as a bulwark against Islamic encroachment.

No one in any authority, at least not formally, but as you know there are a few of us here (and elsewhere) that recognise and appreciate the energy and experience of the church in Africa.

BTW Albion, nice to see you back.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 6, 2006 4:49 PM

mohammad sadeq al-sadr commands the jaish al-mahdi or army of the hidden imam.al-sadr claims the army is not his,but that of the real mahdi,the hidden imam who will soon reappear.however the hidden imam gave him stewardship over it.his followers chant bring back the hidden imam.president mahmound ahmadinejad and ayatollah ali khamanei of iran also await the hidden imam.who will only appear when chaos reins.the hidden imam will lead the shia to victory over their enemies.we can not win in iraq.be warned,get ready.....a nuclear iran can provoke the chaos ahmadinejad wants for the reappearance of his hidden imam.it doesn't matter if we think this is nosence or a stupid act on his part.they believe it.this might be why president bush now say's we are in world war 3

Posted by: storagemanager at May 6, 2006 5:53 PM

Again and again Muslim Arabs -- Sunni and Shi'a -- have cheered with hysterical joy at the sight of American casualties. Sometimes we hear about it; often we do not. There were the four civilian contractors killed and their bodies mutliated and strung up in Fallujah. There have been those who cheered to see American soldiers incinerated in their Humvees. And does anyone doubt that if they could that a great many Muslim Iraqis (save for the Kurds who might not cheer because the Americans are viewed as their great protectors again the Arabs) would cheer a downed helicopter, a burned tank, with dead or dying Americans in it, virtually anywhere in Iraq?

Why, then, do we remain to "help" them? What is the "winning" here that will be won? In the deaths of Amercan soldiers to keep Sunni Arabs and Shi'a Arabs, each -- when it comes to Infidels trying to help them, more vicious than the next -- one keeps asking the deaf, dumb, and blind Adminstration -- is thy victory?

Posted by: Hugh at May 6, 2006 6:05 PM

My sincere condolences to all the soldier peoples who lost thier lives in this way. They have an impossible job to in an unwinnable war.

There is no going back or going forward. No one really knows what the solution to this is but I'm sure that all are doing the best they can.

Posted by: Naseem at May 6, 2006 7:29 PM

Spirit of 1683

"We now know only too well that we picked the wrong side in Yugoslavia. Those Serbs knew Islam."

You must be joking. I hope you don't mean that Milosevic and his ultranationalist Serb butchers were any better than the Bosnian Muslims, do you?

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 6, 2006 7:30 PM

it does not surprise me in the least of muslims cheering when Americans or any Westerner gets hurt or killed. these people are perpetual victims, and when ever someone else is suffering muslims cheer it on, they did in on 9-11, when the rest of the civilized world were horrified. these same muslim victims are media hoars when ever the camera is rolling, they perfected this in the West bank/ Gaza.
and now even in iraq they use children. What the poor slobs should take a real look at how their leadership especially in Iran are living high and their lowly countrymen are living in poverty.. so the immans blame the Jews and Americans. but what do you expect from a class of people who think they follow a holy man prophet pediphile rapist and war monger muhammud!

Posted by: Lulu at May 6, 2006 7:51 PM

You must be joking. I hope you don't mean that Milosevic and his ultranationalist Serb butchers were any better than the Bosnian Muslims, do you?
Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 6, 2006 07:30 PM
+++++++++++++=

They were just taking revwenge after years of being murdered by mos, the circle turned and the mos were being murdered.

Posted by: Texican at May 6, 2006 8:49 PM

Away ye prophets of doom! Enough ye nay-sayers! Must we keep on predicting our own demise? Say YES to life and NO to death of body or spirit that comes with THEIR triumph. Do you not see? By allowing ourselves to think that THEY can win, we do what THEY want us to do? Face it, it is US and THEM, not only "some of them." They, our enemies, have defined themselves, by their ideology, their scriptures, their actions.

They are deceptive. By allowing us to believe that only "some of them" want to defeat us, we hesitate to do what must be done. An example, the "Iraqi people," so grateful to us for having delivered them from a tyrant, cheer with joy when our soldiers die at the hands of "some of them--the 'insurgents.'" They are all of the same cloth. They are the enemy.

Yes, there were "moderate" Nazis, at least moderate Germans and Austrians, in Nazi Germany and Austria. Did we hesitate to defeat this evil that threatened our liberty because of them? No! We defeated all. We must not hesitate now because there might be "moderates" amongst our enemy.

We have allowed ourselves to follow their program--fatalism. when we accede to the inevitability of their victory, we are doing what they want: "It is written" or "Allah wills it." We need not follow their program. Never mind that we have a President who counts a Bandar Bush amongst his extended family. (Yes, I voted for him too, because the other idiot was more reprehensible.) Ignore that in the US we have a State Department sympathetic, for reasons financial or otherwise, with our enemies.

It is not written--at least not in OUR scriptures--that our fate has been preordained. Take heart, raise the voice, write the words, and when the time comes take harsher measures to assure that we will win, and they will be crushed again and driven to smolder in resentment for millenia in their wastelands.

We have come a long way from that grim day in 2001 when a strike worse than Pearl Harbor sent most of us wondering "why have they done this?" " What have we done to them to merit this?" The answer is "nothing" of course. It is they who were carrying out their plan--set forth in their ideology--one of brigands bent on plunder and rape.

We have made huge advances in this fight against our enemy. No longer is "the religion of peace" commonly accepted because it was mouthed by a President assuring our enemies that they were not the enemy in a mosque. Because of people such as Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald and you others all know who you are, as well as the unafraid authors of books, raising the alarm that this is the same enemy that we of Western civilization fought before, there is an awareness among us of the West--yes even in Europe--that Islam is not what its adherents want us to believe it is.

It is the enemy--not "a miniscule percentage of Moslems" -- determined to subjugate us whether with weapons, words, our laws, and our own gullibility. The enemy has a name, it is an ideology made flesh by its adherents. "Oh no!" too many still exclaim. "It is a religion, how can that be evil?" or the tired old saw about the "fundamentalists--we have those too" and the nauseating "only a few bad apples."

But take heart, never despair, we are making progress, and we will win.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at May 6, 2006 8:50 PM

It was no surprise to me that sadr's goons were behind the attack. Sadr wants to turn Iraq into another Iran. Fat boy is a control freak who has some real issues. To bad we can't stuff him in a rubber room for the rest of his life.

My personal opinion is we should pull our troops out and let the various factions duke it out without our people being on the firing line.

Posted by: fireangel at May 6, 2006 10:47 PM

Texican beat me to it.

Disparage to your heart's content Milosevic, Mladic, and their like, but recognize the fact that the Serb forces were doing to the mohammedans what had been done to them for centuries. They were under embargo and sanction by everyone but the Russians and Chinese and facing enemies carrying on the jihad started against them by the Ottoman Turks, continued by the mo's in the Hanjab SS units, and funded and carried on in the form of islamic jihadis and mercenaries by rich Arab states. Deplore their methods all you like, but at least the Serbs weren't waging thier conflict in NYC, London, and Madrid, nor were they seeking to take over the world.

They were teaching the mohammedans in their back yard the oldest lesson in the world.

Payback's a bitch.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 6, 2006 10:55 PM

al-Sadr always has that same perpetual scowl as the late Ayatollah Khomeini. His minions think it's because he's always in deep thought, but truth be told...al-Sadr is simply hiding ugly, crooked teeth. Perhaps he would lighten-up after some basic dental work?

Posted by: skyking77 at May 7, 2006 12:23 AM

al-Sadr is simply hiding ugly, crooked teeth. Perhaps he would lighten-up after some basic dental work?
Posted by: skyking77 at May 7, 2006 12:23 AM
+++++++++++++

The male mos should have permanent and final dental work performed which would allow the world to have a brighter and more peaceful future.

Posted by: Texican at May 7, 2006 12:36 AM

Hi all
This is a concerned Indian. Our civility has become the weapon for the muslims..Our Democracy a tool for subjugating us..
Now Muslims always vote as a Block, in which ever part of the World they are..They are fools of first quality becoz, When the Sunnis blewed up the Shia's mosque in Iraq, the Shia's in HYDearabd, India came onto the roads accusing US..So it shows how informed they are ..
And now it will not be longer for the European Nations, India as the population of muslims will reach a significant point whose repercussions can be seen, we will have to witness our nations being branded as rogue nations, by the chinese and other stable societies of modern World..
It is not all lost, just that too many PC politicians are facilitating this take over of our countries by Muslims..
The only peacfull option would be to curb the birth rate by mandating that Muslims can have no more than one child, and thus ushering the natural death of their population..thats the only best way but one need balls to implement that..I cant see anybody doing that in India, I hope atleast there are some in UK and in Europe...
Just forget abt human rights when dealing with these muslims, really I( have a educated muslim friend and when I asked him why the hell u do so much fuss abt the cartoons, he relies me why should'nt we?? and he tells again and again that those cartoonists are to be killed.
Such is the mental makup of the Muslims, we have to be ruthless, in dealing with them...
May be the unjust millitary action agianst the Serbs is haunting the WEST..
THe famous Indian king Prithviraj Chauhan in 11th century defeated Mohammad Ghori, by the high moral ideals that the Indian kings used to stick in those days, pardoned Ghori and given him some wealthand ordered him never to return back again..
But the barbarian, relentlessly attacked the Kingdom of Prithviraj for 16 times therafter and evry time he fleed but the 17 time due to crumbling loyalties in the court of Prithviraj, (like the PC politicians of our countries) finally Ghori conquired the kingdom and ravaged the temples and wealth of the Kingdom killing hundreds of thousands of Hindus..
Mercy was shown on Humanitarian Grounds, but to expect that mercy in return from Muslims is foolishness and self destructive..
I forgot to end that story...Now Mohamamd imprisoned Prithviraj and pluced out his 2 eyes and was taken to Kabul(I think) and Prithviraj's mastery of archery was well known, so entertain his guests Ghori ordered Prithiviraj to be brought to the Arena and the setting was in place to shoot the some target...
But Pritviraj didnt obey, and other friend of Prithviraj who was present at the arena that time, told to Ghori that, Prithviraj was a King and he will only respondor(obey ) only to the order of another King thus luring Ghori, to command Prithviraj to display his skills..
Once Prithviraj caught the direction of Ghori's voice he shot an arrow and ushered in the killing of Ghori..
It appears like a fairy tell, isnt it..but thats history and it is well documented..thats why the ancient Worl wa in awe of idnia...
And Star Plus(India) is about to start a a Series about the life story of Pritviraj Chauhan from 12th of may..incase if anybody would want to watch it...

Posted by: Varma at May 7, 2006 1:12 AM

You guys need to lighten up.

MO HIJABS MO WIDE OPEN DOOR KNOBS MO DHIMMITUDUSIONAL FOBS MO MO MO

To lighten the moment, I recommend that you pop open a brew and put in a DVD of the mob at Ayatollah Khomeini's funeral.

Whenever I feel blue, that's what I do. Always makes me smile.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at May 7, 2006 1:45 AM

This is typical muslim behaviour. The allied forces have no need to stay in Iraq now. They are unnecessarily increasing their casualties. Let the zonbies rot. They were living when we were not there,they can do fine without us.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at May 7, 2006 1:51 AM

dms said

we are over in the middle east trying to replace sharia law with democracy while muslims are in the united states trying to replace democracy with sharia law

That's the best and most succinct description I've heard, dms. Why don't we let the Iraqis and Afghans enjoy sharia to their hearts content, and instead use our time and energy to protect our own democracies?

The Iraqis are cheering the deaths of our soldiers. These are the people we are trying to help? We are losing lives and dumping billions of our dollars in their country to improve their lives? If we pull out of Iraq, some fear a bloody civil war, spreading to the neighboring countries. I don't.

Posted by: special_guest at May 7, 2006 2:52 AM

Naseem said

No one really knows what the solution to this is

Sure we do. Google "Posted by: Hugh" and see any of the hundred-odd articles that Hugh has written on the subject. If the CIA can't be bothered to break open a Qur'an, and the NSA hasn't mastered the intracacies of the Google search engine, well that's not our fault. Someone knows the solution. You may not enjoy it much.

Posted by: special_guest at May 7, 2006 3:01 AM

Maybe she would. After all, if the West and the Indians flattened her nation's cities, blasted their mosques, burned their qur'ans, and outlawed her religion that would be "allah's will", wouldn't it?

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 3:31 AM

Eisenhund

I like your analysis. If rotten things happen to Pakistan, and the rest of dar-ul-Islam, it will be the will of Allah.

Should that happen, praise be to Allah.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 7, 2006 3:45 AM

Mr. Eisenhund...now is not the time to talk abou the cites and mosques of Pakistan. Let us focus on the soldiers and the sad loss to the families.

As in the case of my hubby getting crushed (but surviving)in the earthquake, all is Allah's will which we cannot challenge.

Posted by: Naseem at May 7, 2006 3:59 AM

I cheer for every bad thing happening to muslims, but I have the decency to do it the al-Taqqiya way!

Posted by: mr_atheist at May 7, 2006 4:08 AM

In case anyone missed the latent crowing, Naseem said

They have an impossible job to in an unwinnable war.

Unwinnable? It seems that it would be a very winnable war, given the right strategy. But of course she means it is unwinnable, because it is Allah's will that Islam and sharia will take over in Iraq, and eventually the rest of the world. How could mere mortal soldiers win against Allah?

Even as she is shedding a crocodile tear for the dead soldiers, she is continuing to proclaim the coming Islamic victory.

Yes, Eisenhund, you are being so insensitive to talk about Pakistan, when her poor husband has been crushed. And here she is being so kind and thoughtful, in the Islamic way. I hope you are ashamed.

Posted by: special_guest at May 7, 2006 4:15 AM

You're right, special_guest. I'd forgotten my duty as a filthy Infidel to care more about the people who've been shouting "Death to America" and who got crushed by rocks (you see the link there, Naseem?) than about those members of the civilized world murdered by her fellow cultists.

May your husband be up and shouting "Death to the Infidel" and "Kill the Jews" in no time, Nas.

And for the record, I don't need your advice on caring about what happens to soldiers, sweetheart. I was one for a long time, and I'd trade ten million of you mohammedans to get back one of those honored, brave souls.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 4:32 AM

Naseem

Back to the passport question that Ronin, del and I have been pressing you - how did you mark Question 16?

16. DECLARATION IN CASE OF MUSLIM.
I, ________ s/d/w/of _______ aged _____________
adult Muslim, resident of _____________ hereby solemnly
declare that:
a. I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be
upon him) the last of the prophets.
b. I do not recognize any person who claims to he prophet in any sense of the word or of any description whatsoever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognize such a claimant as prophet or a religious reformer as a Muslim.
c. I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadiani to be an impostor nabi and also consider his followers whether belonging to the Lahori or Quadiani group, to be NON-MUSLIM.

Reason it's important

• If you left this question blank, it meant that you told your government that you were a Kafir.
  
• If you filled it out, you pretty much declared that you are a Muslim, but not an Ahmadiya.

Unless of course, you are an UK resident to begin with, have never been to Pakistan, and therefore have no idea about the form in question. Or unless you somehow managed to slip into UK illegally, without a passport.

You once denounced a Pakistani immigrant to the US who signed that even though she apologized to the Quadiani community for signing such a statement under duress. Don't tell us why, let me guess: she married a Hindu (maybe even an evil Brahmin) instead of her cousin or father-in-law, thereby casting Islam to the dung-heap of her past.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at May 7, 2006 4:45 AM

I am surprised to be listening to a group of Serb revisionists looking to justify their actions through crusade. I like the idea of radical Christian warriors fighting at the flash-point boundaries against radical Muslims. But the Serbs conducted poorly executed and atrocity riddled wars. I’m not going to give moral parity to a bunch of guys that used rape as a military strategy and committed Srebrenica. That’s not to say I don’t need them, just like I need anti-Jihad forces in Chechnya.

Posted by: albion at May 7, 2006 5:28 AM

Mr Eisenhund says "May your husband be up and shouting "Death to the Infidel" and "Kill the Jews" in no time, Nas".

How quickly you fell into the cluthes of "special_guest" who had wound you up...do you have an embedded spring in your back by any chance.... and I had a lot of respect for your thoughts upto this point.

As to the sad loss of these brave soldiers....in the 1st instance it is really your politicans who are responsible for their deaths, but looking at the greater picture; it is Allah's will.

Also for the record my shor would never say those things...The Ahmadi way is peaceful dawa only. Ahmadis are some of the most peaceful and gentle peoples you will find on the planet.

Mr. Eisenhund let me tell you that in fact my shor is not getting any better...and I may well lose him in the near future..and I have to prepare myself....and as in all things...It is Allah's will...and not you OR me can have an impact on what the almighty has in store for us.

There is only one planet and we have to share it together...in peace.... the muslim way and that can happen as soon as you want it to, it is in YOUR hands.

"Dar-al-harb has to leave the building" so to speak.

YOU can make that sacrifice...just like I will have to let my hubby go soon. We each have to do our penence, we each have to do the grieving Allah has bestowed upon us.

Mr. Eisenhund, Allah SWT works in mysterious ways...all we can do is marvel the power.

May Allah SWT bestow peace upon us all.

Posted by: Naseem at May 7, 2006 6:33 AM

Nice try. In case you haven't noticed, I'm not one of those mohammedan toy-soldier zombies you might be used to. If that causes me to lose your respect, I honestly couldn't give less of a damn.

My ancestors left the seventh century behind, fourteen centuries ago. If you want to keep living in it the "muslim way", well swell for you. Keep it to yourself. Peace may very well come by the hands of people like me. Trust me, you won't like it. I can't openly discuss how I'd like to see peace come about with the islamic hordes, I'd get my post deleted. I honestly can't figure out what it is in you, either fanaticism or sheer stupidity, that makes it impossible for you to accept that the rest of us have progressed beyond your murdurous primitivism and unthinking simplemindedness.

Your smugness and blindly arrogant guarantees will be your undoing and in fact destroy any and all sympathy I could ever have for you or your husband's situation. Your almost cheerful assurance that your cult is going to destroy everything that I and many others hold dear only serves to make me hate you more than all the hijackings and bombings ever could. Condescension from a vile, demonic primitive gets me going in ways special_guest's humorous, ironic ribbing never could. Only people like you do it, Naseem.

I was wrong before. Ten million mohammedans for one non-mo soldier or civilian is cheap. I'd trade all of you to get just one victim of your psychotic prophet's rantings back.

PS - In case you don't get it, we don't believe in your little "god". The sooner you people realize that the numb-nuts spawner of your cult made it up to ligitimize his crimes, the better off you'll all be. Then you can start thinking for yourselves and join the rest of us in the third millennium.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 7:06 AM

and I'd trade ten million of you mohammedans to get back one of those honored, brave souls.
Right Eisenhund.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at May 7, 2006 7:48 AM

Mr Eisenhund says "Condescension from a vile, demonic primitive gets me going in ways special_guest's humorous, ironic ribbing never could. Only people like you do it, Naseem.

I was wrong before. Ten million mohammedans for one non-mo soldier or civilian is cheap. I'd trade all of you to get just one victim of your psychotic prophet's rantings back".

Come now Mr. Eisenhund... deep breaths...breathe in ...hold...breathe out hold....relax...relax.

Now that you have calmed down a bit, do you really think that I am a vile, demonic primitive...surely not.

I am probabsbly the only muslim ON THE PLANET that has accepted that a handful of the suras in the Quaran are incorrect.

Mr. Eisenhund surley you need more "Naseems" not less.

Also you know that I am going through a traumatic time in my life...why all the "hellfire".

What I said was that there IS a way forward, I mean is it such a bad thing, that your childrens will have discipline & structure to their lives...also you know that prayers are good for the soul....coupled by protection given by muslim soldiers...doesn't sound too bad to me.

Also watch out for that spring in your back..too much tightness can lead to spasms.... they can be very painful and I can give testament to that when I see my shor's condition.

Peace be upon us all mr Eisenhund.

Posted by: Naseem at May 7, 2006 7:52 AM

Naseen is not from pakistan.She is either from the U.S. or the U.K.. Her profile says so. And one more thing, we can't argue with insanity,just silence it.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at May 7, 2006 8:30 AM

Like I said, smugness and condescension.

No, we don't need any more "Naseems". Just like a Nazi working in a factory making widgets for bombers was no better than one guarding a concentration camp, if you follow all but "a handful of the suras in the Quaran", there are still enough left in there to make you my enemy.

Don't you worry about our children having discipline. Our children know better than to lose their minds and destroy and kill every time someone says something they don't like. You mohammedans might want to work on that one before you preach to us.

"...protection given by muslim soldiers"? Are you friggin' kidding me?! Everyone knows, especially those of us who have ever worn a uniform, that you people make the absolute worst, most untrainable, most incompetant, most cowardly excuses for soldiers that have ever been seen on this planet. I'd sooner trust my safety to two or three retarded Cub Scouts than to an entire brigade of "muslim soldiers".

Quit whining about your husband while you're at it. As long as I keep seeing people getting shot and beheaded by vermin raving about your prophet and his made-up hand puppet god, while at the same time I have to read you telling me to accept that barbaric qur'anian garbage, I'm going to save my sympathies for those who deserve it. Your "peaceful dawa" does nothing but obfuscate the real issue of jihad and embolden those who would murder my family, my countryfolk, and myself.

That makes you the enemy.

I think I can speak for a sizable contingent of regular poster and lurkers when I say you can keep your and your allah's peace. It carries far too high a price in terms of culture, art, custom, science, technology,
And blood.

PS-"Now that you have calmed down a bit, do you really think that I am a vile, demonic primitive...surely not."
I'll admit, you are much smoother than those raving and ranting mullahs and imams y'all think are so "learned". Problem is, I've read "Faust", toots.
Mephistopheles has nothing on you.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 8:30 AM

They do, on occassion, need to be shown and explained their place lest our silence embolden them, arjun.sevak. But you are correct in that trying to explain the real world to your average mohammedan seems rather like their curious habit of banging their heads against the ground five times a day.
Has about the same effect, as well. Makes one crazy and keeps one from doing any real work.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 8:39 AM

Lest we forget, Iraq is an arbitrary nation cobbled together by France and Great Britain after WW1. Ethnic and religious diversity was not taken into account, especially with the Kurds in the north. The division of Kurdistan among four different nations continues to plague those nations today. As recently as 1922, Great Britain used airplanes and gas to put down a kurdish revolt.

If nothing else, muslims are good haters with long memories. When coalition forces leave, the age-old struggles will start again. Despite GW, Condie, and Rummie's predictions, our actions there won't last. What we did is to slow up
the spread of terrorism a little.

Is it sicking to see Iraqis cheering the death of British soldiers? You bet! Is it understandable? Unfortunately, it also is as well.

Posted by: cactus at May 7, 2006 10:04 AM

Please keep replies to "Naseem" (whom I continue to think is a female aymadiyya in Pakistan, a she says) to a minimum. One would prefer not to have to ban her postings as too distracting. Those postings are useful, but one need not attempt to elicit them through long replies; she likes to offer her views.

Consider, for example, what the following, which she recently posted, reveals in such casual, unstudied fashion:

"There is only one planet and we have to share it together...in peace.... the muslim way and that can happen as soon as you want it to, it is in YOUR hands."

"Dar-al-harb has to leave the building" so to speak."

Yes, "Dar al-harb" has to "leave the building."

So to speak.

Posted by: Hugh at May 7, 2006 10:17 AM

Ouch!

That's quite the proverbial "whack on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper".

Sunday edition, no less.

Pity. She's one of my favorite squeaky-toys.

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 7, 2006 10:54 AM

The latest from the BBC is that the civilian casualties (including 2 children) were also killed by Iraqi fire and not British troops defending themselves and trying to rescue the helicopter crew.
The identities of the 5 servicemen killed will be released tomorrow.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 7, 2006 11:21 AM

I apologize in advance, Hugh. But I am not hoping to elicit a response from Naseem, it is just to point out a subtle but important part of the Islamic mindset, one that you have written about often: inshallah fatalism.

One wonders if Naseem has sought out a specialist for her crushed husband, or if that would be subverting Allah's will. Why set the splint, or even bother to clean the wounds? It is all in Allah's hands, and He knows best. Surely He could fix a few crushed bones, if he wished. Why should we get involved?

More than that, why bother to create building codes that would limit damage when earthquakes occur? If Allah wants the building to fall, it will fall, regardless of how much rebar is embedded in the concrete. If He wants it to stand, it could be made of tissue paper and it would withstand the largest tremblor or the strongest typhoon.

Posted by: special_guest at May 7, 2006 2:42 PM

(Hugh: "Please keep replies to "Naseem" ...to a minimum.")

Naseem: "do you really think that I am a vile, demonic primitive"[?]

Yes.

Posted by: Caroline at May 7, 2006 3:34 PM

l watched a short clip on an Iranian Cdn who went back to Iran this past fall, he had been held previously in jail for deomonstrating for Democracy. anyhow on his plane from Iran to France, "All" the women on the plane once on the runway, they aLL took off their burqua and head scarfs! this is why l cannot believe Naseem is a women wanting other to cover up their heads and bodies. unless misery loves company, and she is plainly miserable locked up in her house tending to crippled man. dont they have doctors in Pakistan?

Posted by: Lulu at May 7, 2006 4:28 PM

As long as Islam is, freedom will never be. The two can not be as one, they oppose each other. Remove Islam, and freedom can then fill the void.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at May 7, 2006 4:57 PM

I really don't think this and many other incidents in Iraq have much to do with Islam. I think much of it comes down to ignorance in general and large numbers of un-employed and therefore disenfranchised young men more specifically.

It is the age old paradigm of people who feel powerless striking out at those they feel hold the power.

Certainly, this is not a behavior that exisits only in Islam

Posted by: IslamIsTheEnemy at May 7, 2006 5:06 PM

Lulu: "l cannot believe Naseem is a women wanting other to cover up their heads and bodies."

Believe it Lulu. Naseem is a brainwashed zombie. She is OF THE BORG. Programmed to assimilate.

Posted by: Caroline at May 7, 2006 5:22 PM

I hate to disagree with ya , Caroline, but I think Naseem is really a man. And one with a temper!!

Posted by: freewoman at May 7, 2006 6:00 PM

Naseem and people like her

When you have a very limited education and limited options and are constantly fed lies and don't really think for yourself, you live in a world where you cling to constants which allow you to survive. These constants can be so ugly as to seem insupportable, but all kinds of abominations have been accepted by people in different places at different times. Enforced social conditioning is a powerful human phenomenon; such enforcement is practiced with skill (although crudely) by the Muslims.

Not only is she a "devil with a blue dress on" and a "strange woman", but wherever she hangs her hat, there are multiple copies of her in the States, and I have met many many like her. So be aware.

Posted by: HaMalach at May 7, 2006 6:09 PM

Hugh,did the mufti of Beirut in 1982/3 allow cannibalism or condemn it?

Posted by: Paul at May 7, 2006 9:01 PM

Assalamau-laikim all,

I shall be brief.

To peoples like LULU who cannot understand whay we should all cover up...and that this must be a man saying it.

I say to you that you may have read suras & Hadith galore....but you do not yet understand Islam.

Muslima womens understand their place, it is why they all cover up...it is their love for Allah SWT. You will understand this when Islam comes to roost in yout town in Amrika.

Freewoman...somehow asking peoples to murder thier husbands just doesn't sit well. Particularily one whose husband had several broken bones, perforated lungs, damaged kidneys and liver and soon to possibly to depart to his place at the feet of Allah SWT....no it just doesn't sit well. And I tell you I am not one with a temper...look at all the abuse I have to absorb.

Hamalch...many are uneducated ...I am not . I have a degree from a British University. I am not "a devil with a blue dress on and a strange woman", ... I am an educated muslima.

That is what you need to recognise...an educated muslima....one who CHOOSES Islam. Inceasingly these are the peoples who will walk your streets, you will no longer find us strange...they will be friends with your daughters.

Posted by: Naseem at May 8, 2006 4:07 AM

*yawn*

Posted by: Eisenhund at May 8, 2006 6:20 AM

I have a degree from a British University

If that's the truth (which I doubt) then judging by her spelling and grammar standards must have dropped considerably since I was an undergraduate.

Posted by: 1666 at May 8, 2006 3:36 PM

Naseem, you're still a nut.

Posted by: freewoman at May 8, 2006 7:08 PM

The zombies are right now walking in the streets. That's the entire point of this site naseem.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at May 9, 2006 12:31 PM