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In "The Caliphate: One nation, under Allah, with 1.5 billion Muslims," the Christian Science Monitor (thanks to all who sent this in) profiles Hizb-ut-Tahrir, the "peaceful" jihadists.
AMMAN, JORDAN – The three middle-aged men sitting in an Indian restaurant in Jordan's capital scarcely look like Islamic revolutionaries. They are smartly dressed in Western-style suits and sip thoughtfully from cans of Pepsi as they share their plan to reshape the Muslim world."[President] Bush says that we want to enslave people and oppress their freedom of speech," says Abu Abdullah, a senior member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, the Party of Liberation. "But we want to free all people from being slaves of men and make them slaves of Allah."
In other words, they want to impose Sharia.
Hizb ut-Tahrir says that Muslims should abolish national boundaries within the Islamic world and return to a single Islamic state, known as "the Caliphate," that would stretch from Indonesia to Morocco and contain more than 1.5 billion people.It's a simple and seductive idea that analysts believe may someday allow the group to rival existing Islamic movements, topple the rulers of Middle Eastern nations, and undermine those seeking to reconcile democracy and Islam and build bridges between East and West.
"A few years ago people laughed at them," says Zeyno Baran, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and the leading expert on Hizb ut-Tahrir. "But now that [Osama] bin Laden, [Abu Musab al-] Zarqawi, and other Islamic groups are saying they want to recreate the Caliphate, people are taking them seriously."
Even more moderate Muslim groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt pay lip-service to the ideal of reestablishing the Caliphate, leaving less ideological space for Muslims who want to move toward Western models of democracy.
The Brotherhood doesn't just pay lip service to that idea. It was itself founded in 1928 as a response to the abolition of the caliphate in 1924, and as a reassertion of political Islam.
"The Caliphate is a rallying point between the radicals and the more moderate Islamists," says Stephen Ulph, a senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation. "The idea of a government based on the Caliphate has a historical pedigree and Islamic legitimacy that Western systems of government by their very nature do not have."
What's a "moderate Islamist," Ulph? Isn't an "Islamist" supposed to be someone who wants the rule of political Islam? If so, such an imperative is inherently transnationalistic, and ultimately tends directly to the caliphate.
But unlike Al Qaeda, Hizb ut-Tahrir believes it can recreate the Caliphate peacefully. Its activists aim to pursuade Muslim political and military leaders that reestablishing the Caliphate is their Islamic duty. Once these leaders invite Hizb ut-Tahrir to take power - effectively staging a military coup - the party would then repeat the process in other countries before linking them up to form a revived Caliphate...."The Muslim world has resources like oil but it lacks the leadership that will rule us by Islamic law and make this jihad that the whole world is afraid of," says Shakr, a Jordanian member of the group, who says the success of the Caliphate will also encourage more converts to Islam - eventually making the whole world Islamic....
Many analysts say that real danger is that the group radicalizes its followers who may subsequently graduate into militancy.
"People who join won't necessarily end up as violent jihadists," says Shiv Malik, a journalist. "But Hizb ut-Tahrir can provide [them with an] ideological backbone."...
"In Europe they tell Muslims that they have to create parallel societies and that they should not follow European laws," says Ms. Baran. "If this happens it will impossible for people like me to argue that Islam can be democratic."
Baran estimates the group has tens of thousands of followers in Central Asia. "They're stronger in places where people know less about Islam and can't read the Koran in Arabic," she says. "They're not as popular in the Middle East because they don't get involved in the Palestinian cause."
Baran is here implying that knowledge of Arabic, the Qur'an, and Islam would take care of this sort of movement. But in fact, as I have shown again and again and again here, it is the mujahedin who constantly buttress their arguments with Qur'anic quotes and material from the Hadith and Islamic jurisprudence, while self-proclaimed moderates deal in vague generalities.
Hizb ut-Tahrir takes a more gradual, long-term strategy for spreading the territory under Muslim rule."Islam obliges Muslims to possess power so that they can intimidate - I would not say terrorize - the enemies of Islam," says Abu Mohammed, a Hizb ut-Tahrir activist. "In the beginning, the Caliphate would strengthen itself internally and it wouldn't initiate jihad."
Think about what CAIR does in light of that statement.
"But after that we would carry Islam as an intellectual call to all the world," says Abu Mohammed, a pseudonym. "And we will make people bordering the Caliphate believe in Islam. Or if they refuse then we'll ask them to be ruled by Islam."
In accord with Muhammad's words, as quoted here in reference to Ahmadinejad.
And after that? Abu Mohammed pauses and fiddles with his Pepsi before replying."And if after all discussions and negotiations they still refuse, then the last resort will be a jihad to spread the spirit of Islam and the rule of Islam," he says, smiling. "This is done in the interests of all people to get them out of darkness and into light."
Posted by Robert at May 10, 2006 8:50 PM
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OT - But I just watched Andrew Bostom debate a member of the Muslim Public Affairs Council named Mr Younis on Bill OReilly.
I must say Mr Bostom was a bit disappointing. A lot of uh - uh - uh, while the foreigner, Mr Younis was clear, concise and articulate (though he was lying through his teeth on more than one occasion).
O'Reilly asked Bostom why, if all Muslims were so predisposed to jihadist interpretations of the Quran, were Moroccans, for example, not waging jihad. Instead of pointing out that Morrocans comprised the majority of the cell that blew up the trains in Madrid 2 years ago, Bostom went back in history to the Barbary states. It was an un-necessary diversion.
Oh well.
Posted by: Cornelius![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at May 10, 2006 9:19 PM
I have also seen the presentation tonight on the O'Reilly Factor and it would have been better to have had the founder of this website, Robert Spencer on instead. He would have done well debating Mr. Younis. Oh well is right on that one.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 10, 2006 9:25 PM
robert,i wish your voice was heard more.i spent today listening to one radio talk show host after another,call ahmadinejads letter left wing talking points.t.v and print are no better.it does our country grave harm to not understand the danger the enemy poses.as you point out time and time again we are in 1938 again.but the stakes are much higher.
Posted by: storagemanager at May 10, 2006 9:40 PM
So what’s the difference between a Caliphate and an empire? I though we decided that empires were bad.
Oh I get it. Making Islamic empires and enslaving people is in their culture so its ok. Alright people, nothing to see here move along.
*-O)):~{>
at May 10, 2006 9:47 PM
iran press news.....The Guardian reported that the main reason for the dismissal of Jack Straw, former Foreign Secretary was the issue of Iran; referring to Straw's disagreement with Tony Blair, on designation of policy vis-à-vis the regime in Tehran, The Guardian claimed that Straw's view did not align with that of Tony Blair. According to this publication, Tony Blair considers Tehran's regime to be the most serious threat to the world and is said to be even more ardent on this issue than the US president.
The Guardian and other British publications had previously published several article about Straw's ardent support for the Islamic regime and had come to be known as one of the main supporters of compromise and policy dialogue with Tehran's regime in the European Union.
Two years ago The Daily Telegraph published an article that clearly stated that when traveling to Iran Mr. Straw wrote down the names of the 12 Imams and carried it around in his pocket and every time the name of any Imam would be mentioned he would utter the prayer of praise to the prophet and his God in Arabic.
Posted by: storagemanager at May 10, 2006 9:57 PM
I saw Bostom on O'Reilly and I thought he did a good job of explaining how Jihad and violence are associated with the Koran.I thought the Muslim speaker engaged in a lot of double talk saying that the Koran must be interpreted by scholars and that Jihad is really an inner struggle.I didn't find the Muslim either clear or convincing when asked by O'Reilly to explain violent verses that were read on the show from the Koran. The segment was short but each speaker was able to make his point. What was refreshing is that O'Reilly did not let the Muslim speak over Mr Bostom.What I find usually happens in most Islam discussions is that the Muslim will start shouting and speaking over the other guest.
Posted by: Roxane at May 10, 2006 9:59 PM
The Caliphate in the muslim world is next to impossible. there are too many differnces between those in each country, and wealth is only in certan muslim countriee where there is oil. and we have see n how generous (lack of generoisty) muslim states have been with other muslim countries that Tsuami had hit. Too much infighting, are kiling each other faster in Iraq than what the US military could ever wish for! the Caliphate appears only in dazzled minds of muslims nutbars!
Posted by: Lulu at May 10, 2006 10:11 PM
"...will be a jihad to spread the spirit of Islam and the rule of Islam," he says, smiling. "This is done in the interests of all people to get them out of darkness and into light."
Sure Abu, we know all about Islam's "light";
"But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"
Posted by: Thumper at May 10, 2006 10:41 PM
but ahmadinejad thinks the hidden imam will pull it all together.then the world will be muslim heaven on earth.again it doesn't matter that we think it's nonsence.the ball is in his court so far.
Posted by: storagemanager at May 10, 2006 10:44 PM
"one of the first acts of mr ahmadinejad's government was to donate about 10 million to the jamkaran mosque,a popular pilgrimage site where the pious come to drop messages to the hidden imam into a holy well"..anton le guardia "the prospect of such a man obtaining nuclear weapons is worrying.the unspoken question is this:is mr ahmadinejad now tempting a clash with the west because he feels safe in the belief of the imminent return of the hidden imam?worse,might he be trying to provoke chaos in the hope of hastening his reappearance"..anton la guardia........mr la guardia is awake...and wrote what i think.
Posted by: storagemanager at May 10, 2006 10:57 PM
SnowDawg-
It isn't "imperialism" if it is done by self-declared 'underdogs'.
Then it's just a global "gathering of the faithful"... -using armies to round them up, in this case.
(Or kill them, if they don't pay the bloodmoney fee.)
*~@:~{>
Posted by: profitsbeard at May 10, 2006 11:13 PM
And still they ask the old question "why do they hate us", unable to undestand that they will always hate us.
When they start asking "Why do they not fear us" some progress wil have been made.
at May 10, 2006 11:16 PM
"Islam obliges Muslims to possess power so that they can intimidate - I would not say terrorize - the enemies of Islam,". It is the Quran that commands Muslims to terrorize their enemies. Why is he afraid to speak the truth? We all know it. Call a spade a spade and stop all the taqiyyah and lies.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at May 10, 2006 11:26 PM
profitsbeard:
You wouldn't be making forbidden cartoons, would you? I'm shocked.
at May 10, 2006 11:28 PM
hate is the key that unlocks the koran.
Posted by: storagemanager at May 10, 2006 11:34 PM
To "stretch from Indonesia to Morocco and contain more than 1.5 billion people" would require this Caliphate to go through South and Southeast Asia (India, Laos, Thailand, Burma, Bhutan, Nepal, Vietnam). That indictes to me that he views Asia as the first land mass that must fall in the Jihadists' plans for world domination.
at May 10, 2006 11:48 PM
"Islam obliges Muslims to possess power so that they can intimidate - I would not say terrorize - the enemies of Islam," says Abu Mohammed, a Hizb ut-Tahrir activist. "In the beginning, the Caliphate would strengthen itself internally and it wouldn't initiate jihad."
+++++++++++++++++++++
Intimidate - terroize means death regardless.
How much proof does the world need before it wars on islam???
Posted by: Texican at May 11, 2006 12:01 AM
profitsbeard:
I like your Mo. What do you think of this hybird between your Mo and mine
*-@)):~{>
Posted by: SnowDawg at May 11, 2006 12:41 AM
"1.5 billion Muslims"
-- from the article above
This is the frog blowing up its throat so as to appear more formidable and to scare away predators. One waits for some Muslim group to explain how, within scarcely two years, the figure has gone from 1 to 1.2 to 1.4 to 1.5 billion (no doubt it will hit 1.8 billion before the year is out). Meanwhile, apostasy cannot be kept down, the real population figures (Saudi Arabia has for years inflated the "Saudi" population in order to minimize the foreign presence, and also to lower the income figures so Saudis do not appear to be as rich as they are -- it would sicken too many Infidels, and cause too many Muslims to want, even more, a cut of the take).
In the United States CAIR and other groups routinely cite "7 or 8 million Muslims." There are at most 3 million, two million of those adherents of the Nation of Islam and similar groups, and hardly practitioners of orthodox Islam (at some of their meetings they apparently have music, even singing -- not exactly meeting the halal requirements of Sheik Al-Qaradawi).
Meanwhile, in China, if Chinese turn to any religion it will clearly be Christianity, and in black Africa, Muslims are losing out to Christiainity. If Western Christians were better organized, and more unyielding, and if even non-Christians saw the merit of supporting Christian missionary efforts, much more could be done. And if it becomes clear that Islam itelf is reponsible for economic and political paralysis, with emphasis placed on inshallah-fatalism, that could change quite a few minds about the attractieness of Islam.
No, the figure must be far less. Let someone prove the figure is more than 1 billion, without making such assumptions as "Everyone in a Muslim-ruled country must be a Muslim." That's not true.
Posted by: Hugh at May 11, 2006 12:42 AM
"1.5 billion Muslims"
-- from the article above
This is the frog blowing up its throat so as to appear more formidable and to scare away predators. One waits for some Muslim group to explain how, within scarcely two years, the figure has gone from 1 to 1.2 to 1.4 to 1.5 billion (no doubt it will hit 1.8 billion before the year is out). Meanwhile, apostasy cannot be kept down, the real population figures (Saudi Arabia has for years inflated the "Saudi" population in order to minimize the foreign presence, and also to lower the income figures so Saudis do not appear to be as rich as they are -- it would sicken too many Infidels, and cause too many Muslims to want, even more, a cut of the take).
In the United States CAIR and other groups routinely cite "7 or 8 million Muslims." There are at most 3 million, two million of those adherents of the Nation of Islam and similar groups, and hardly practitioners of orthodox Islam (at some of their meetings they apparently have music, even singing -- not exactly meeting the halal requirements of Sheik Al-Qaradawi).
Meanwhile, in China, if Chinese turn to any religion it will clearly be Christianity, and in black Africa, Muslims are losing out to Christiainity. If Western Christians were better organized, and more unyielding, and if even non-Christians saw the merit of supporting Christian missionary efforts, much more could be done. And if it becomes clear that Islam itelf is reponsible for economic and political paralysis, with emphasis placed on inshallah-fatalism, that could change quite a few minds about the attractieness of Islam.
No, the figure must be far less. Let someone not merely assert, but offer evidence, that the figure is more than 1 billion, without making such assumptions as "Everyone in a Muslim-ruled country must be a Muslim." That's not true.
Posted by: Hugh at May 11, 2006 12:43 AM
From the article:
But unlike Al Qaeda, Hizb ut-Tahrir believes it can recreate the Caliphate peacefully.
LOL.
That might be all well-and-good, but what if the reaction from the infidels to that kind that plan isn't peaceful? Have they thought of that?
I sure have.
Fascism is alive and well and piping itself into America through Dhimmi jizaya taxes from our own government to nations like Egypt and, of course, the oil companies. Let's just start getting sensible. Is that even possible anymore, or do we have leaders in Washington that can only think about establishing themselves as the new royalty while the rest of us watch our America whither and die because of mad greed and lack of morality.
We just might deserve Islamist dictators in a few decades if we can't pull our heads out of the sand and start voting out the snakes that are infesting our own political system.
I sure am hearing a LOT about the Caliphate lately. I don't like it one bit.
Posted by: Foehammer at May 11, 2006 1:08 AM
Has Hugh ever wrote whether or not he considers the homegrown Nation of islam, as much of a problem, as much of a threat, as a like number of genuine muslim immigrants. I'd like to know, if he has.
The hate that comes from the Nation of islam, seems to me more dangerous, because it is finding ears and hearts within our black community.
Does anyone have any numbers of the number of conversions to islam within black America?
That number might have a sad and somber tale to tell.
at May 11, 2006 2:10 AM
Sorry for the OT - but some interesting news
Mumbai police foil Ellora terror bid
This one if the terrorists had succeded would have been several orders of magnitude greater than the Bamiyan Buddhas - this site has Hindu and Buddhist and Jain temples and sculptures
Here are some links on the Ellora caves
UN World Heritage Site
Pictures of Ellora caves
Excerpt
"The masterpiece of Ellora is the Kailasa Temple, one of the most audacious feats of architecture ever conceived. Dedicated to Shiva, it is the world's largest monolithic sculpture, hewn from the rock by 7000 laborers over a 150 year period. Attributed to king Krishna I of the Rashtrakuta dynasty c. 760 AD, the idea was not only to build an enormous and fantastically carved representation of Mt. Kailasa, Shiva's home in the Himalaya, but to create it from a single piece of stone by first cutting three huge trenches into the rock of the Ellora cliff face and then 'releasing' the shape of the temple using hammers and chisels. Of overwhelming scale, it covers twice the area of the Parthenon in Athens, is 1-1/2 times as high, and entailed removing 200,000 tons of rock."
at May 11, 2006 2:30 AM
Wow ik, Ellora gives Petra a run for its money.
And how long is Petra, rose red city half as old as time, safe I wonder.
at May 11, 2006 2:57 AM
Petra's basically the home to a lot of Bedouin, so I don't imagine anybody would try to blow it up anytime soon. Also, there are no statues there. The remains are almost entirely architectural, and not tied to any religion. What few human or animal figures that there are are so worn that they're barely visible.
That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a terror attack on tourists there similar to the horrifc one that targeted the European tour buses at Luxor in 1997. South Jordan is prime for something like that, as Islamism has been growing there for over a decade now and the border is really porous. Egyptians come into Aqaba from the Sinai to work on a daily basis. Or at least they did back before 9/11, the last time I was there.
Posted by: OutOfAqaba at May 11, 2006 3:51 AM
Hey folks ! Don't be worried by this 1.5 billion stuff. Remember, it is Population Control in the case of the civilized, but pest control in the case of brain dead zombies.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at May 11, 2006 3:59 AM
And you won,t read an article like that on the front page of the newspaper.
Posted by: stevenz at May 11, 2006 7:02 AM
"Even more moderate Muslim groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt..."
Help, please. When did MB turn "moderate"?
Posted by: emet-veritas at May 11, 2006 8:07 AM
"The Caliphate" in truth could never happen because not only because there is no real unity among the Muslims, but also as Hugh pointed out in his excellent comments, it would come upon a growing and expanding global Christian faith community. Africa is a good example of the Christian faith on fire there. Millions of Muslims with native faith Africans are leaving these faiths for the hope that the Christian faith has to offer. Also just take a look at Iraq for example. I read online that during a meeting of parliment in Baghdad, that one of the cell phones of a shia member, its ringtone(s) went off and a fight broke out between shia and sunni Muslim members. It was over the shia Muslim's cell phone ringtone which has a shia verson of the call to prayer. This just proves the point that unity, let alone a "caliphate", is not possible, it is just a pipe dream.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 11, 2006 10:18 AM
SnowDawg-
How about one fewer parenthesis in the turban?
*~@):~{>
That way you get a double-effect of: curved turban fold and frowning eyebrows, and it keeps the image from stretching too thin, literally.
Either way, a perfect little subliminal sigil.
Posted by: profitsbeard at May 11, 2006 10:25 AM
Foehammer wrote: "We just might deserve Islamist dictators in a few decades if we can't pull our heads out of the sand and start voting out the snakes that are infesting our own political system."
To be sure, there are snakes in the political system. But that is just the tip of the iceberg The biggest nests of snakes are located deep in the state department apparatus, in the clueless and impotent INS bureaucracy, and in the cadre of Marxist moles within the CIA. And those are all careerist folks who cannot be voted out.
The process of changing this environment is a long term one that starts with the education of the populace at large. An informed public, demanding accountability, is a force that the politicians cannot ignore. (The demands on the politicians today, in respect of the Islamic threat, are based on ignorant and foolish utopianism, for the most part). The snakes in the government will have to be weeded out one by one: isolated, retired, relieved of duties, pushed into harmless sinecures, and otherwise purged. This process can only be undertaken by informed officials holding an "unobnubilated grasp" of what Islam is, having a determination to prevail in a long struggle, and holding a shared sense of purpose. In conducting that housecleaning, they must share a common wisdom of what has to be done if our civilization is to survive. In short, there must develop a new form of "PC."
We have a long way to go to achieve that state of awareness and common sense of purpose. JW/DW is a start. But it might take a terrorist nuclear event to really start focusing minds.
Posted by: Stendec at May 11, 2006 11:49 AM
Unfortunately, these Islamic apoligists are also in the educational system (at all levels) as well. Many of them hate the US more than they do Islam, so educational approach is also suspect.
two cents ¢¢
Posted by: two cents ¢¢ at May 12, 2006 2:07 PM
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