Screw the Dutch! I can drink Becks beer, rather than Heinekins, and Dutch cheese is off the menu for good.

Posted by: kenprice at May 15, 2006 7:04 PM

It is a mindset of COWARDS who will not save their own society from the wolves within. They might just be paving the way to their own demise.

Europe needs a Beowulf and quickly.

Posted by: Foehammer at May 15, 2006 7:05 PM

They must be dancing in Jihad-Land: Another immoral victory for the terror cause. It is decisions like this that doom the west to lose this war. Appeasement is never a good foundation on which to base a policy.

Posted by: Canadian Infidel at May 15, 2006 7:07 PM

The estimable Melanie Phillips...

Is estimable better than inestimable? Hope so. Makes it a lot easier.

And none of that truth to power malarkey either. It's a mug's game. Truth to weakness is the way to go.

Posted by: Interested at May 15, 2006 7:08 PM

I guess it's time to get all the art and anything worth saving out before the muslims take charge and destroy everything.

Posted by: freewoman at May 15, 2006 7:17 PM

If she lied to get her citizenship, she must loose it again if the dutch rules are so. Noone is above the law.

Posted by: seville844 at May 15, 2006 8:02 PM

seville844,

I suppose that you would agree that the 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants in the USA should be deported?

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at May 15, 2006 8:06 PM

"If she lied to get her citizenship, she must loose it again if the dutch rules are so. Noone(sic) is above the law."

Posted by: seville844

The US can make exceptions for severe circumstances and allow Hirsi Ali in as a political refugee. But, I will reiterate my statement in an earlier post in another article. This president and his Dhimmi of State will not allow her to enter.

From May 14: Well, Robert I'm losing confidence everyday. If you think this administration with this dhimmi Department of State would give her asylum, I have this cast iron tower in Paris that's for sale.

That's my opinion; I could be wrong.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 15, 2006 8:20 PM

The so-called "International Court of Justice" at the Hague in Dutch dhimmistan proclaims the right to stand American soldiers on trial on its whim. And yet here we see the quality of Dutch justice when they persecute a helpless lady for speaking out against Islam - even when she herself comes from that ethnic group.

I don't think the Dutch Hague is qualified to stand in judgement over a saturday night poker game, leave alone declare itself the International Court of the world.

Dutch justice has proven itself cowardly and worthless. It will bow to cartoon rioters in an instant.

Posted by: sanman at May 15, 2006 8:25 PM

Its time to designate Islam what it is.

A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

Muslims must leave Islam or deported.

All Mosques and affilated organizations such as Muslim Student Associations must be shut down.

Enough of the mealy mouthed apologetics of Islam Terror.

Posted by: paulc37 at May 15, 2006 8:57 PM

There have been a number of snippets in the press and the blogs in the past few days about what has happened to Ayaan Hirsi Ali (beginning with the attempt to evict her from her residence), but I have refrained from emailing any of them to my friends yet (the ones on the email list I am constantly trying to wake up) because I was waiting for someone to come along and put it all together in one place and to express the appropriate moral indignation to boot. My wait is over. And I'm not at all surprised that it's Melanie Phillips who has done it.

Posted by: Caroline at May 15, 2006 9:20 PM

Question:

We know that during the coming century the continuation of current demographic trends will put Europe at increasing risk of Islamic takeover (seems more true after seeing this treatment of Hirsi Ali).

Obviously the U.S. faces no such demographic risk. Or does it? Does it face the same risk but on a longer term basis than Europe?

Posted by: traeh at May 15, 2006 9:55 PM

seville844

Sorry, but your understanding of what the "law" is is wrong.
"Law" is a spectrum of laws, rules, statutes, regulations, such as codified in the U.S. Constitution, together with institutions, such as Courts, to interpret those laws for individual cases. 'Cause life is complex, and common law and our Founding Fathers recognized that complexity, the intricacy of human life, its many motivations and the many circumstances of life, and it was a celebration of that genuine life while recognizing that there was a need for a framework for all that diversity to be allowed to flourish while preventing its life-denying forces. Which is what Jihadist Islam is.

You have a friend in an earlier thread. This is what I wrote him:

"No, most Dutch are fed up with lying foreigners who end up with the Dutch nationality and get away with it. Apparently, this backslashed on AHA.

It's truly a shame, but on the other hand. Rules are rules and since we are not a random backward muslim-"paradise" they apply to everyone."

DrWolffenstein

Interesting how resentment and pique pour out of every line of your post about "[t]his AHA." Interesting for my collection of types unable of self-reflection, unable to understand what subliminal issues motivated them.

To put Ayaan + whatever the rest of her name is, which you so unsubtly point out, that is, not understanding what a change of name must have been for a woman who was challenging her very identity and loyalties,

to put her on a par with the millions of Muslims who entered Holland just to find an economically safe place to breed, build ghettoes where the males rule unquestionably, stay on welfare, spred Islam, and do a little Jihad work on the side,

not to understand that she was clearly besotted with Holland--though I wonder how she is feeling now, after being kicked out of her apartment by a bunch of neighbors, the valiant representatives of a society she dedicated her life to--and decided to defend the spirit of Holland and put her life on line for it, maybe as an act of expiation for her innitial lies--has it ever occurred to you that she may have done all this out of love for Holland, which I think she exudes thru everything she does and says, or is it too much for the ordinary, comfort-and-security, civil service-addicted Dutchman to see in the mirror Ayaan puts up to you?

"Rules are rules," you say. What a laughable logical fallacy. It's time you remembered we also have, in Western societies, besides rules, rational, discriminating minds and institutions, like Courts, set in place to interpret those those "rules," and see and discern the merits of each case. I bet a whole lot of Dutch citizens--and I know Holland well--make a very, very good living out of those "interpretive" institutions,

and I also bet, based on everything that has happened around Ayaan and Muslims in Holland, that many of those in charge of this very deliberation and interpretation and brain power required of Western democratic societies have failed in their mission.

It must be the Dutch infatuation with flowers--like acquiring the prized, rare orchid, or worrying over the quality of your shots in your latest trip in the former colonies, marred, unfortunately, by a nagging sense of guilt, so much so that, on a lark, you decided to get engaged to a sexy, fresh but illiterate and naive native, called Bienvenida, which assured you she was at least Christian-educated by despised neo-colonialist Catholics, for there must be, in the future marriage, at least some common ground, and so a chance of educating her out of her prejudices, for she would otherwise have a hard time with some of the Dutch freedoms. Like legalized prostitution, to begin with.

Ayaan chose of a life of the mind in the full freedom afforded by the state of the Netherlands, as promissed by it as an historic covenant. She acquired her "Dutchness" thru deceit. I'm sure it was an act of desperation. She payed for it many times over.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 15, 2006 10:01 PM

seville844

Sorry, but your understanding of what the "law" is is wrong.
"Law" is a spectrum of laws, rules, statutes, regulations, such as codified in the U.S. Constitution, together with institutions, such as the Courts, to interpret those laws for individual cases.

'Cause life is complex, and English common law and our Founding Fathers recognized that complexity, and the intricacy of human life, its often-strange motivations and the many circumstances of life, and it was a celebration of that genuine life while recognizing that there was a need for a framework for all that diversity to be allowed to flourish while preventing its life-denying forces. Which is what Jihadist Islam is.

You have a friend in an earlier thread. This is what I wrote him:

"No, most Dutch are fed up with lying foreigners who end up with the Dutch nationality and get away with it. Apparently, this backslashed on AHA.

It's truly a shame, but on the other hand. Rules are rules and since we are not a random backward muslim-"paradise" they apply to everyone."

DrWolffenstein

Interesting how resentment and pique pour out of every line of your post about "[t]his AHA." Interesting for my collection of types unable of self-reflection, unable to understand what subliminal issues motivated them.

To put Ayaan + whatever the rest of her name is, which you so unsubtly point out, that is, not understanding what a change of name must have been for a woman who was challenging her very identity and loyalties,

to put her on a par with the millions of Muslims who entered Holland just to find an economically safe place to breed, build ghettoes where the males rule unquestionably, stay on welfare, spred Islam, and do a little Jihad work on the side,

not to understand that she was clearly besotted with Holland--though I wonder how she is feeling now, after being kicked out of her apartment by a bunch of neighbors, the valiant representatives of a society she dedicated her life to--and decided to defend the spirit of Holland and put her life on line for it, maybe as an act of expiation for her innitial lies--has it ever occurred to you that she may have done all this out of love for Holland, which I think she exudes thru everything she does and says, or is it too much for the ordinary, comfort-and-security, civil service-addicted Dutchman to see in the mirror Ayaan puts up to you?

"Rules are rules," you say. What a laughable logical fallacy. It's time you remembered we also have, in Western societies, besides rules, rational, discriminating minds and institutions, like Courts, set in place to interpret those those "rules," and see and discern the merits of each case. I bet a whole lot of Dutch citizens--and I know Holland well--make a very, very good living out of those "interpretive" institutions,

and I also bet, based on everything that has happened around Ayaan and Muslims in Holland, that many of those in charge of this very deliberation and interpretation and brain power required of Western democratic societies have failed in their mission.

It must be the Dutch infatuation with flowers--like acquiring the prized, rare orchid, or worrying over the quality of your shots in your latest trip in the former colonies, marred, unfortunately, by a nagging sense of guilt, so much so that, on a lark, you decided to get engaged to a sexy, fresh but illiterate and naive native, called Bienvenida, which assured you she was at least Christian-educated by despised neo-colonialist Catholics, for there must be, in the future marriage, at least some common ground, and so a chance of educating her out of her prejudices, for she would otherwise have a hard time with some of the Dutch freedoms. Like legalized prostitution, to begin with.

Ayaan chose of a life of the mind in the full freedom afforded by the state of the Netherlands, as promissed by it as an historic covenant. She acquired her "Dutchness" thru deceit. I'm sure it was an act of desperation. She payed for it many times over.

Posted by: ovidius_naso at May 15, 2006 10:04 PM

traeh: "Obviously the U.S. faces no such demographic risk. Or does it? Does it face the same risk but on a longer term basis than Europe?"

Traeh - this article was posted at LGF today:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

"If enacted, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S.2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years—fully one-third of the current population of the United States.

Much attention has been given to the fact that the bill grants amnesty to some 10 million illegal immigrants. Little or no attention has been given to the fact that the bill would quintuple the rate of legal immigration into the United States, raising, over time, the inflow of legal immigrants from around one million per year to over five million per year. The impact of this increase in legal immigration dwarfs the magnitude of the amnesty provisions.

In contrast to the 103 million immigrants permitted under CIRA, current law allows 19 million legal immigrants over the next twenty years. Relative to current law, then, CIRA would add an extra 84 million legal immigrants to the nation’s population.

The figure of 103 million legal immigrants is a reasonable estimate of the actual immigration inflow under the bill and not the maximum number that would be legally permitted to enter. The maximum number that could legally enter would be almost 200 million over twenty years—over 180 million more legal immigrants than current law permits."

Are they screening out Muslims in those figures? Because if not, then yes, the U.S. faces the same threats as Europe. And noone is listening...

Posted by: Caroline at May 15, 2006 10:07 PM

Eurabian Charter:
1) The right to remain in Eurabia, should not be questioned, for any murderous, hate-mongering, female subjugating, unassimilating, primitive, death cultist, who believes killing innocent civilians, (who are not similarly indoctrinated) will guarantee a room in Allah's eternal brothel.

2) Deportation SHALL be required for any person who is inaccurate in the details of their past, no matter how innocuous the inaccuracy, and no matter how noble, courageous, and beneficial to their country they have proven themselves to be in the years since.

Posted by: Xero G at May 15, 2006 10:18 PM

One can safely assume that Geert Wilders is next on the list. I'm sure the dhimmis will find some pretext.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1366672,00.html

Remember Churchill's statement about appeasement - "an appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last"

Posted by: johnb at May 15, 2006 10:41 PM

"Its the Law angle" that some seem to push is not a valid argument. So what if she lied about a few things to get into Holland and yes perhaps that is breaking the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. In other words if she was coming to the Netherlands with the intent of causing harm I could understand the concern but that was not her intent.

Its like someone jaywalking to get help from a policeman that a madman with a knife was running around attacking people. The policeman instead tickets the jaywalker and ignores the madman.

In the Netherlands today you have a large population of muslims and many do NOT want your laws, or values, or life. They have a very different world view. A Islamic world view that is very oppressive and counter to most everything you hold dear in a modern civilized state. Every day these followers (not a small number) get up and scream and yell all sorts of anti-west, anti-christian, anti-jewish threats. They tell you they are going to kill people, they tell you they will bomb things, they even tell you they are going to overthrow your government and replace it with one more of their liking. Yet who do you throw out?

The Jaywalker OR The Madman with the Knife???

If you have to jaywalk to stop the madman do you do it??? But its against the law??

Let get real people??? The real reason why Hirsi Ali was thrown out was becuase she wanted to fight and the majority of Dutch are not fighters. Look at WWII when they lasted 3-4 days and could not hand over the Jews fast enough to their new Nazi overlords. Now as then they have choosen to hand Hirsi Ali over to the Nazis of our time. I wonder if she is still getting state protection? Muslims nutz will no doubt strike once that is gone. She could be dead within a week unless private protection is offered by like minded people.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at May 15, 2006 10:42 PM

Something else: When there is another ex-Muslim thinking about speaking out against the Jihad, will he be willing to risk having his asylum application reviewed?

Posted by: Ruy Diaz at May 15, 2006 10:52 PM

Caroline, thanks for the input. I'd like to dredge up specific U.S. immigration percentages we can expect in the coming decades (how many Muslims vs. how many non-Muslims) and reproduction rates of the various groups that will be here in the U.S. I'd guess those numbers will show that we in the U.S. do not face a Muslim majority for a long time, if ever. I suspect European demographic trends are radically different from ours. But to be sure I'd still like to see concrete data and projections.

Posted by: traeh at May 15, 2006 11:10 PM

I suppose that you would agree that the 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants in the USA should be deported?

Posted by: Aiken Bryce

I agree the ILLEGAL immigrants
should be deported,Thier ILLEGAL.

Posted by: patriot4 at May 15, 2006 11:22 PM

I would rather live next to ten ILLEGAL Mexicans then live next to one LEGAL muslim saudi......

One wants to prune my garden and the other wants my head...hmmmmmm

This word Illegal and Legal mean nothing when the State Dept allows rich muslims in with payoffs. So using the "kick all illegals out" logic we should kick the mexican vegie picker out and keep the rich saudi who might do us harm becuase one came by legal means and the other by illegal means???

The sad part is we may need those ILLEGAL mexican/latin immigrants for the coming war with Islam when our future leaders want to fight it...

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at May 15, 2006 11:53 PM

Greatcometof1577:

You've addressed a very important issue that many are uncomfortable talking about ---Why should a Saudi (for example) educated in Engineering have more opportunities to immigrate to the U.S. than a poor Mexican who will work wherever he is needed? This has gone way beyond being a PC right/left issue. When's the last time a Mexican ever tried to blow up an airplane in the name of the Virgin of Guadalupe??

Posted by: kafira at May 16, 2006 12:13 AM

I suppose that you would agree that the 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants in the USA should be deported?
Posted by: Aiken Bryce at May 15, 2006 08:06 PM
+++++++++++++

Illegal aliens not immigrants.

The criminals - illegal alines - that have broken our laws and invade America need to be rounded up and deported.

The Texican.

Posted by: Texican at May 16, 2006 12:16 AM

Muslims must leave Islam or deported.

Posted by: paulc37 at May 15, 2006 08:57 PM

Just as Muslims give one chance to accept Islam, Muslims should be given one ... not two, not three but ONE chance to leave ISLAM, or leave USA!

Posted by: Alert at May 16, 2006 12:16 AM

I would rather live next to ten ILLEGAL Mexicans then live next to one LEGAL muslim saudi......

That goes withought saying,Still dont change the fact that something thats start's with the world ILLEGAl(as in ILLEGAl immigrants).Means they are ILLEGAl.

Posted by: patriot4 at May 16, 2006 12:23 AM

My late mother immigrated from the Netherlands in the fifties, surviving WWII and German occupation and I'm now grateful she got out. She said the Dutch thought the Germans were idiots for not seeing through Hitlers b@#$s##t. Of course that hasn't prevented history repeating itslelf in Holland. Its incredibly sad.

Posted by: Mr Krabs at May 16, 2006 12:33 AM

Goddamn cowardly bastards.
Start licking the boots of your Islamic masters.
You're doomed.

Posted by: UncleSam

I'm an American,that sh** aint never gunna happin.Too many Americans have faught and died for me not too EVER even think in them terms.And i plan to fight to make sure no American has too.

"I die hard,but I am not affraid to go"-Goerge Washington

Posted by: patriot4 at May 16, 2006 12:51 AM

"Courage is being scared to death,but saddeling up anyway"-John Wayne.

Posted by: patriot4 at May 16, 2006 12:55 AM

A man can be a Christian or a patriot, but he can't legally be a Christian and a patriot--except in the usual way: one of the two with the mouth, the other with the heart. The spirit of Christianity proclaims the brotherhood of the race and the meaning of that strong word has not been left to guesswork, but made tremendously definite- the Christian must forgive his brother man all crimes he can imagine and commit, and all insults he can conceive and utter- forgive these injuries how many times?--seventy times seven--another way of saying there shall be no limit to this forgiveness. That is the spirit and the law of Christianity.

Well--Patriotism has its laws. And it also is a perfectly definite one, there are not vaguenesses about it. It commands that the brother over the border shall be sharply watched and brought to book every time he does us a hurt or offends us with an insult. Word it as softly as you please, the spirit of patriotism is the spirit of the dog and wolf. The moment there is a misunderstanding about a boundary line or a hamper of fish or some other squalid matter, see patriotism rise, and hear him split the universe with is war-whoop. The spirit of patriotism being in its nature jealous and selfish, is just in man's line, it comes natural to him- he can live up to all its requirements to the letter; but the spirit of Christianity is not in its entirety possible to him.

The prayers concealed in what I have been saying is, not that patriotism should cease and not that the talk about universal brotherhood should cease, but that the incongruous firm be dissolved and each limb of it be required to transact business by itself, for the future.
- Mark Twain's Notebook

Posted by: patriot4 at May 16, 2006 1:00 AM

Ah what a fine bunch of rabble rousing America patriots some of you are. I thought this thread was about Dutch immigration law and it’s sad impact on Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But no, our American friends who post here want to talk about their own immigration situation (would a good description be ‘porous’?) And then the NRA section of the crowd shouts out, ‘deport all 11 million!’
Deporting 11 million souls will inconvenience your economy. It will destabilize your neighbors, and without a reform of American borders or policy, it will not change the fact that American has an illegals problem because:
1. US boarders in AZ and TX can be breached at will
2. Vested business interests (farming etc) want the labor at the pay rates illegals will suffer.

If America really wants to tighten it’s immigrant controls, it should fine those corporations that deliberately employ people who are not authorized to work in the US. It is US business, that wants cheap labor that is fuelling the US immigration scenario.
Now while I don’t agree with the Dutch Governments attempts to rescind the legal status of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, it does seem to be following the rule of law. Posters such as sanman jump very quickly to describe the Dutch as cowards and to deride the International Court in the Hague. (nice: don’t forget to complain about the UN while you’re at it).
To the neo-cons who post here:
Mass deportations from the US will not work. Your ideas ring hollow, can’t be implemented and would not advance the cause of anti-Jihad (which is the purpose of this site). So will you guys stop flirting with fascism, and attempt to formulate arguments that we could use with the average voter.

Posted by: albion at May 16, 2006 1:00 AM

If America really wants to tighten it’s immigrant controls, it should fine those corporations that deliberately employ people who are not authorized to work in the US.

Exactly,what needs to be done.But your right this thread is about her.

Posted by: patriot4 at May 16, 2006 1:10 AM

I guess the Dutch will start throwing teachers out of classrooms if the students don't like the difficulty of the lessons?

I suggest they close the "Anne Frank House", since they have just betrayed her again.

Hirsi Ali will have a bright future in any self-respecting country.

The Hollanders will have to make do with their pottage.

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 16, 2006 1:46 AM

Personally I would welcome Hirsi Ali and her like into the UK. Maybe we could set up an asylum seekers exchange scheme. For every Hirsi we take in we could deport, say, 100 undesirables. That would make our homeland safer and more prosperous. 'Deport them where', you ask? Their country of origin of course. The Netherlands might consider accommodating a proportion of them.

Like that adage of getting the governments you deserve, conversely is also true. Governments get the people they deserve.

Posted by: western infidel at May 16, 2006 6:05 AM

Martin Niemuller could well rewrite the dutch morality.

mea culpas such as

When the hijackers seized control I did not help them because i am not an ethnic muslim hijacker.

When the police raided the plane and began to kill the hijackers, i did not rise to the hijackers defence because i am a peace lover .

But when some of the hijackers were captured and given political asylum, i applauded because i am a Dutch liberal.

And when they came for Hirst Ali, i did not resist her deportation because i am NOT black or a christian.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at May 16, 2006 6:21 AM

Tell k hasan what you think of his attack on Melanie
at
khasan2@cox.net
Be chivalrous and help her out. She is a courageous lone voice in londonistan.
The article is linked on her web site.
i have already sent him my thoughts and had a reply.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at May 16, 2006 6:26 AM

We all know that they want Hirst Ali to be exposed so that they can kill her. Those who are behind this is still her kinsmen who entered Holland the same time as asylum seekers. They have searched for ways to deal with her and have found one. It's unfortunate that it's in Holland where most people uptill now don't like blacks. For example, there are still some restaurants you don't enter if you are a black.
If anything evil happens to Hirst Ali, it wil become a shame to all the democracies and freedom we are shouting about. It's unfortunate that many Westerner have never understood the goals of islam.
The Dutchman they will use to persecute Hirst Ali maybe telling himself "I've caught another high profile person to bring down" but those that digged and reported the issue know what they are pursuing. Hirst Ali has become a bold mouthpiece for freedom, any attack on her is an attack on freedom.

Posted by: Nwachinemere at May 16, 2006 6:44 AM

Assalamau-Laikum all,

I know that she is in a difficult positions...but I get the impression that she just couldn't wait to jump ship ...if it meant that she could get to America.

I feel that Mrs. Ali can do more for freedom in Holland then in America. She needs to fight this, go through the hoops in Holland...and come out an even stonger person.

America can wait!

Posted by: Naseem at May 16, 2006 7:00 AM

Some peopel above criticise me for taking the 'law angle' and say that AHA shouldn't loose her citizenship. I find this quite ironic because one of the things that many peopel - including myself - don't like about Islam is the fact that under Islamic law peopel are NOT equal, there is a distinct difference between man and woman, between muslims, dhimmis, polytheists and atheists. The bottom line is this; If you defend AHA's lies you are essentially defending someone who has comitted a criminal act. When muslims lie about how they are persecuted in order to gain citizenship, we can all agree that they should be expelled. The same must be the case for non-muslims trying to get citizenship, if we are to be credible in our anti-islamic stance.

I think we should be glad for what AHA achieved, because I don't think the she could have done much more. Her main achievement was to break out of Islam and tell peopel how hellish it can be for a woman to grow up under such circumstances. She said a lot of things that a white person couldn't have said without being called a racist, as such she has been very difficult to shut up for those who wish her silenced.

But what more could she have achieved? Now let's be realistic, she was never going to be PM of Holland or anything like that. You can say whatever you want about dutch tolerance, but every tolerance has it's limits, even the dutch one. To elect a non-white, non-european and highly controversial person as AHA as leader of the country is unthinkable. In spite of it's liberal image many dutch peopel are quite conservative, so that was never going to happen anyway. For AHA to become an important politician with real power is as unlikely as imagening a subsaharan country like f.ex. Somalia, elect a white woman as president. Not very likely, I think.

Posted by: seville844 at May 16, 2006 7:05 AM

seville844:

your understanding of the situation is awfully marginal. In Europe in particular, there are countless examples of criminals and outright terrorists making claims to refugee status (that they would be tortured if returned to their countries of origin) who aren't getting turfed because of their "human rights". Here we have someone who has exposed the evils of Islam vis a vis women's rights in particular facing the loss of her citizenship not because she poses an immediate threat to anyone, but because she's an embarrassment to the Dutch government, having showm them to be the gutless, hypocritical dhimmis that they are.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at May 16, 2006 8:08 AM

"It is a mindset as medieval as it is misguided. Shame on them."

Don't belittle the medeival minset! This is NOT a medieval mindset. The medieval world was the high point of Christendom, and gave us Pelayo, Charlegmange, and the Crusades. No wimpy dhimmi simpering and invective against the victims, but action against the evil of Mohammedanism. Why do moderns always assume that everyone born before 1960 was somehow mentally impaired.

just look at our own dispordered world, oh post-Christian West and think twice.

Deus lo Vult!

Posted by: Elendur at May 16, 2006 10:16 AM

This is Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Press Release (Persverklaring in Dutch)on the website of her party, which is also the party of Minister Verdonk.

Tweede-Kamerfractie
16-5-2006

Persverklaring Ayaan Hirsi Ali

I came to Holland in the summer of 1992 because I wanted to be able to determine my own future. I didn’t want to be forced into a destiny that other people had chosen for me, so I opted for the protection of the rule of law. Here in Holland, I found freedom and opportunities, and I took those opportunities to speak out against religious terror.

In January 2003, at the invitation of the VVD party, I became a member of parliament. I accepted the VVD’s invitation on the condition that I would be the party’s spokesman for the emancipation of women and the integration of immigrants.

What exactly did I want to achieve?

First of all I wanted to put the oppression of immigrant women -- especially Muslim women – squarely on the Dutch political agenda. Second, I wanted Holland to pay attention to the specific cultural and religious issues that were holding back many ethnic minorities, instead of always taking a one-sided approach that focused only on their socio-economic circumstances. Lastly, I wanted politicians to grasp the fact that major aspects of Islamic doctrine and tradition, as practiced today, are incompatible with the open society.

Now I have to ask myself, have I accomplished that task?

I have stumbled often in my political career. It has sometimes been frustrating and slow. However, I am completely certain that I have, in my own way, succeeded in contributing to the debate. Issues related to Islam – such as impediments to free speech; refusal of the separation of Church and State; widespread domestic violence; honor killings; the repudiation of wives; and Islam’s failure to condemn genital mutilation -- these subjects can no longer be swept under the carpet in our country’s capital. Some of the measures that this government has begun taking give me satisfaction. Many illusions of how easy it will be to establish a multicultural society have disappeared forever. We are now more realistic and more open in this debate, and I am proud to have contributed to that process.

Meanwhile, the ideas which I espouse have begun spreading to other countries. In recent years I have given speeches and attended debates in many European countries and in the United States. For months now, I have felt that I needed to make a decision: should I go on in Dutch politics, or should I now transfer my ideas to an international forum?

In the fall of 2005 I told Gerrit Zalm and Jozias van Aartsen, the leaders of the VVD, that I would not be a candidate for the parliamentary elections in 2007. I had decided to opt for a more international platform, because I wanted to contribute to the international debate on the emancipation of Muslim women and the complex relationship between Islam and the West.

Now that I am announcing that I will resign from Dutch politics, I would like to thank the members of the VVD for my years in parliament – to thank them for inviting me to stand for parliament, and -- perhaps more importantly -- for putting up with me while I was there, for this has been in many ways a rough ride for us all. I want to thank my other colleagues here in parliament for their help, although some of our debates have been sharp. (Femke Halsema, thank you especially for that!). I would also like to thank the 30,758 people who in January 2003 trusted their preference vote to a newcomer.

But why am I not remaining in parliament for my full term, until next year’s election? Why, after only three and a half years, have I decided to resign from the Lower Chamber?

It is common knowledge that threats against my life began building up ever since I first talked about Islam publicly, in the spring of 2002. Months before I even entered politics, my freedom of movement was greatly curtailed, and that became worse after Theo van Gogh was murdered in 2004. I have been obliged to move house so many times I have lost count. The direct cause for the ending of my membership in parliament is that on April 27 of this year, a Dutch court ruled that I must once again leave my home, because my neighbors filed a complaint that they could not feel safe living next to me. The Dutch government will appeal this verdict and I grateful for that, because how on earth will other people whose lives are threatened manage to find a place to stay if this verdict is allowed to rest? However, this appeal does not alter my situation: I have to leave my apartment by the end of August.

Another reason for my departure is the discussion that has arisen from a TV program, The Holy Ayaan, which was aired on May 11. This program centered on two issues: the story that I told when I was applying for asylum here in Holland, and questions about my forced marriage.

I have been very open about the fact that when I applied for asylum in the Netherlands in 1992, I did so under a false name and with a fabricated story. In 2002, I spoke on national television about the conditions of my arrival, and I said then that I fabricated a story in order to be able to receive asylum here. Since that TV program I have repeated this dozens of times, in Dutch and international media. Many times I have truthfully named my father and given my correct date of birth. (You will find a selection of these articles in the press folder). I also informed the VVD leadership and members of this fact when I was invited to stand for parliament.

I have said many times that I am not proud that I lied when I sought asylum in the Netherlands. It was wrong to do so. I did it because I felt I had no choice. I was frightened that if I simply said I was fleeing a forced marriage, I would be sent back to my family. And I was frightened that if I gave my real name, my clan would hunt me down and find me. So I chose a name that I thought I could disappear with – the real name of my grandfather, who was given the birth-name Ali. I claimed that my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali, although I should have said it was Ayaan Hirsi Magan.

You probably are wondering, what is my real name?

I am Ayaan, the daughter of Hirsi, who is the son of a man who took the name of Magan. Magan was the son of Isse, who was the son of Guleid, who was the son of Ali. He was the son of Wai’ays, who was the son of Muhammad. He was the son of Ali, who was the son of Umar. Umar was the son of Osman, who was the son of Mahamud. This is my clan, and therefore, in Somalia, this is my name: Ayaan Hirsi Magan Isse Guleid Ali Wai’ays Muhammad Ali Umar Osman Mahamud.

Following the May 11 television broadcast, legal questions have been raised about my naturalization as a Dutch citizen. Minister Verdonk has written to me saying that my passport will be annulled, because it was issued to a person who does not hold my real name. I am not at liberty to discuss the legal issues in this case.

Now for the questions about my forced marriage. Last week’s TV program cast doubt on my credibility in that respect, and the final conclusion of the documentary is that all this is terribly complicated. Let me tell you, it’s not so complex. The allegations that I willingly married my distant cousin, and was present at the wedding ceremony, are simply untrue. This man arrived in Nairobi from Canada, asked my father for one of his five daughters, and my father gave him me. I can assure you my father is not a man who takes no for an answer. Still, I refused to attend the formal ceremony, and I was married regardless. Then, on my way to Canada -- during a stopover in Germany -- I traveled to the Netherlands and asked for asylum here. In all simplicity this is what happened, nothing more and nothing less. For those who are interested in the intimate details of my transition from a pre-modern society to a modern one, and how I came to love what the West stands for, please read my memoir, which is due to be published this fall.

To return to the present day, may I say that it is difficult to live with so many threats on your life and such a level of police protection. It is difficult to work as a parliamentarian if you have nowhere to live. All that is difficult, but not impossible. It has become impossible since last night, when Minister Verdonk informed me that she would strip me of my Dutch citizenship.

I am therefore preparing to leave Holland. But the questions for our society remain. The future of Islam in our country; the subjugation of women in Islamic culture; the integration of the many Muslims in the West: it is self-deceit to imagine that these issues will disappear.

I will continue to ask uncomfortable questions, despite the obvious resistance that they elicit. I feel that I should help other people to live in freedom, as many people have helped me. I personally have gone through a long and sometimes painful process of personal growth in this country. It began with learning to tell the truth to myself, and then the truth about myself: I strive now to also tell the truth about society as I see it.

That transition from becoming a member of a clan to becoming a citizen in an open society is what public service has come to mean for me. Only clear thinking and strong action can lead to real change, and free many people within our society from the mental cage of submission. The idea that I can contribute to their freedom, whether in the Netherlands or in another country, gives me deep satisfaction.

Ladies and Gentlemen, as of today, I resign from Parliament. I regret that I will be leaving the Netherlands, the country which has given me so many opportunities and enriched my life, but I am glad that I will be able to continue my work. I will go on.

Here is the link to the press release:
http://www.vvd.nl/index.aspx?FilterId=974&ChapterId=1147&ContentId=4977

Here is the link to Minister Verdonk's website:
http://www.justitie.nl/organisatie/verdonk_nl/

You might want to send an email to her party:
vvdvoorlichting@tweedekamer.nl

Posted by: John James at May 16, 2006 11:04 AM

Months ago, when I first posted about my loathing of the Netherlands, some silly person opined that I must have been turned down by a blue-eyed Dutch girl. Now I hope that most of you see what I saw in the country, and why, exactly, I regard it as a plague spot on the face of Europe and as a refuge of moral and physical vileness. Meanwhile, if Ms.Ali would like Italian citizenship, I am disposed to marry her on the spot. After all, I nearly did it once before, with another person... but that is another story.

Seville, in every civilized country, the law of asylum can be overridden by humanitarian concerns. Verdonk simply thinks that her political position is more important than Hirsi Ali's life. In a country where disabled babies and old and sick people are routinely murdered, the death of one illegal immigrant - who asks troubling questions - is not going to trouble what passes for consciences in governmental circles.

Abraham Kuyper is turning in his grave.

Posted by: Paolo at May 16, 2006 11:27 AM

The Truth is what got MS ali in trouble, not the lies she told in the past. She openly admitted these when she ran for parliament and no one objected. The TRUTH is the Netherlands has become Hollandistan and the people are scared spitless of the Muslims. How soon will Melanie Phillips be driven from England by the same intollerance and fear of the TRUTH.
Uncontrolled immigration is causing us similar problems in th U.S.The TRUTH is our country can't afford illegal immigrants. They don't pay taxes, and our health, medical, social services are overwhelmed due to their free ride. The lie about their doing jobs Americans won't do is ridiculous. The TRUTH is business owners are happy to pay artificially low wages to a population that can't complain. Do you think for one minute if all illegals went home that all businesses would fold that employs illegals? Of course not. Wages would go up, taxes would be paid, the strain on our social services would ease, and we would all be better off.And the money earned would be spent here, not sent out of the country. If politicians and big business ever figure out that wages earned in this country benefits Americans, maybe, just maybe we could pay our own people to drill our own oil and pay our own people to process it so we wouldn't be contsantly endangering our economy by avoiding the TRUTH: money earned here and taxed here benefits the country. Will congress vote for America and does GW have our country's best interest at heart as he speechifies about our illegal alien problem? What do you think? Should we insist on the REAL TRUTH or someone else's watered-down version? Something other than the real truth isn't, is it?

Posted by: cactus at May 16, 2006 11:42 AM

waterdragon: Whenever a politician becomes controversial there are those who would say that criticism and punishment for doing things who are technically illegal, is nothing but a mere whichhunt. That's just the way the game is.

Paolo: Yes, humanitarian concerns certainly exists, but the basic problem that I pointed out still exists; That all peopel should be equal under the law. Politics is a tough business and if you get caught lying you get hammered for it.

Posted by: seville844 at May 16, 2006 1:35 PM

Well, it appears that the western countries as well are also doing the same thing, appeasement everywhere, while they grow stronger...
We, the verbal fighters need some encouragement to know that what we are doing is working,,, Am I correct in saying that even our governments and the media seem to want us to be Muslim. While muslims mutiply like flies and take us over our leaders dont seem to be putting up a fight at all.
I write to politicians, many papers and send articles and they dont want to know, but if I sent something on how terrible the west was towards muslims it would be printed, why????
Please someone out there, tell me there is still hope as I cant see any hope anymore. If the Duch havent woken up now after the murder of Van ?? and this Muslim woman warning us then what hope have we..

Posted by: Gaye at May 17, 2006 12:19 AM

Great.....Our leaders cause the problem and dont listen to the fears of the people then we the people are called upon to destroy the killers..

Robert, we need some positive imput here, we need to know that there are people waking up and not just the plebes like us... does anyone know of any leaders willing to fight this festering cancer...

Posted by: Gaye at May 17, 2006 12:34 AM