Alleged Canadian terror plot has worldwide links

By Stewart Bell and Kelly Patrick
CanWest News Service

Saturday, June 03, 2006
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=de3f8e90-982a-47af-8e5e-a1366fd5d6cc&k=46849

TORONTO - A Canadian counter-terrorism investigation that led to the arrests of 17 people accused of plotting bombings in Ontario is linked to probes in a half-dozen countries, the National Post has learned.

Well before police tactical teams began their sweeps around Toronto on Friday, at least 18 related arrests had already taken place in Canada, the United States, Britain, Bosnia, Denmark, Sweden, and Bangladesh.

The six-month RCMP investigation, called Project OSage, is one of several overlapping probes that include an FBI case called Operation Northern Exposure and a British probe known as Operation Mazhar.

At a news conference Saturday, the RCMP announced terrorism-related charges had been laid against a dozen Toronto-area men and five teens under the age of 18.
The group “took steps to acquire components necessary to create explosive devices” including three tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, commonly used in terrorist bombs, police said.

By comparison, the truck bomb used to blow up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people, contained a single tonne of ammonium nitrate.

“It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack,” RCMP assistant commissioner Mike McDonell said.

“This group posed a real threat. It had the capacity and intent to carry out these attacks.”

Police declined to identify the intended targets because the investigation is ongoing but said they were all in southern Ontario and did not include the Toronto transit system, as some media outlets had reported.

As senior RCMP and Canadian Security Intelligence Service officials spoke to reporters, some of the evidence seized during police raids was displayed on a table guarded by police officers.

The materials included a bag of ammonium nitrate, a handgun and ammunition clip, computer hard drive, and what appeared to be a cellphone activated electronic detonator hidden inside a small black fishing tackle box.

Police also displayed bags of camouflage clothing and boots apparently seized from a camp north of Toronto that some of the members of the group had allegedly used for combat training.

In a speech to new Canadian Forces recruits and their families Saturday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Canadians can’t escape a dangerous world by turning a blind eye to it.

“As we have said on many occasions, Canada is not immune to the threat of terrorism,” he said.

“Through the work and co-operation of the RCMP, CSIS, local law enforcement and Toronto’s Integrated National Security Enforcement Team (INSET), acts of violence by extremist groups may have been prevented.”

The Ontario accused made brief court appearances in Brampton, north of Toronto, on Saturday. They face charges of participating in the acts of a terrorist group, including training and recruitment; firearms and explosives offences for the purposes of terrorism and providing property for terrorist purposes.

With the exception of two men, who are aged 43 and 30, the alleged terrorists are all in their teens and early 20s.

They include men of Somali, Egyptian, Jamaican, and Trinidadian origin. All are residents of Canada and “for the most part” all are Canadian citizens, police said.
Charged are: Fahim Ahmad, 21, Zakaria Amara, 20, Asad Ansari, 21, Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mohammed Dirie, 22, Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Jahmaal James, 23, Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Steven Vikash Chand, 25, and Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21. A twelfth man was a youth when some of the alleged offences took place and can’t be named, along with the other five youths arrested.

“For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents to a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaida,” said Luc Portelance, the CSIS assistant director of operations.

“Any movement that has the ability to turn people against their fellow citizens is obviously something that CSIS is very concerned about.”

He called the investigation the largest since the Anti-terrorism Act was passed by Parliament in December 2001, in response to the 9/11 attacks in the United States.

“It is important to know that this operation in no way reflects negatively on any specific community, or ethno-cultural group in Canada,” he added.

“Terrorism is a dangerous ideology and a global phenomenon, as yesterday’s arrests demonstrate, Canada is not immune from this ideology.”
CSIS and RCMP officials invited about a dozen members of Toronto’s Muslim community to a meeting Saturday morning to discuss potential fallout.

“The police said they are cognizant of the fact that there could be a backlash and that they’ve taken all precautions to ensure that nothing like this happens,” Canadian Muslim Congress spokesman Tarek Fatah said Saturday.

“They are very conscious of the fact that this is a small group of criminals and they don’t reflect the vast Muslim community in Toronto.”

While Fatah couldn’t discount the possibility that “nut bars” might retaliate against innocent Muslims, he thought it unlikely.

Despite recent warnings that Canadian-bred terrorists were operating in the country, Fatah said he was still surprised authorities had uncovered a plot in Toronto.
“I’m shocked that it’s so close to home,” he said. “But I’m quite happy that the RCMP was able to stop this terrorist attempt, if the allegations are true. It’s quite scary that someone would live in Toronto and would like to blow up buildings and kill people here.”

The Toronto busts are linked to arrests that began last August at a Canadian border post near Niagara Falls and continued in October in Sarajevo, London and Scandinavia, and earlier this year in New York and Georgia.

The FBI confirmed Saturday the arrests were related to the recent indictments in the U.S. of Ehsanul Sadequee and Syed Ahmed, who are accused of meeting with extremists in Toronto last March to discuss terrorist training and plots.

“There is preliminary indication that some of the Canadian subjects may have had limited contact with the two people recently arrested from Georgia,” Special Agent Richard Kolko, the FBI spokesman, said in an e-mail to the National Post.

The intricate web of connections between Toronto, London, Atlanta, Sarajevo, Dhaka, and elsewhere illustrates the challenge confronting counter-terrorism investigators almost five years after 9/11.

Linking the international probes are online communications, phone calls and in particular videotapes that authorities allege show some of the targets the young extremists considered blowing up.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at June 3, 2006 9:09 PM

UK - Terror cell 'was planning nerve gas attack on capital'
By Andrew Alderson, Sean Rayment and Patrick Hennessy
(Filed: 04/06/2006)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=O02HCMTWYQHQPQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/06/04/nterr04.xml

Terrorists were planning a chemical attack in London similar to the outrage on the Tokyo underground, according to police and the security services.

MI5 operatives suspect that al-Qa'eda sympathisers intended to produce a nerve agent - probably sarin - and release it in a confined space, such as a tube carriage, to maximise the number of casualties.

The sarin attack on three railway lines in the Japanese capital killed 12 people and injured more than 5,000 in March 1995. It was the world's first major chemical attack and used sarin, a nerve agent which attacks the respiratory system.

Security sources suspect that a new atrocity was planned on or close to the anniversary of the July 7 attacks on London, when four terrorists killed themselves and 52 others, and injured more than 700 people. This would have provided a rallying call to al-Qa'eda sympathisers to carry on their "jihad" - or holy war - against the West.

Officers were last night continuing to question two men after a raid on a house in Forest Gate, east London. The men arrested are brothers: Mohammed Abul Kahar, 23, and Abul Koyair, 20. Both deny any offences.

The elder brother was shot in the shoulder during a police raid at 4am on Friday. He was later arrested under the Terrorism Act after being treated for the gunshot wound in the Royal London Hospital, where he is still recovering.

Senior police sources said they were searching for an "improvised device rather than a sophisticated weapon" capable of releasing chemicals. The Sunday Telegraph has learnt that intelligence obtained by MI5 suggested that terrorists were trying to acquire material via the internet which could be used to develop a nerve gas capable of killing and injuring thousands of people.

Security sources say that the terrorist threat facing Britain has developed into a "covert conspiracy" involving hundreds of men and women living ordinary lives in the nation's suburbs. They form an estimated 1,200 strong "army" of terrorists believed to be involved in at least 20 major terrorist plots.

Scotland Yard and MI5 sources were playing down reports in the media yesterday that they were looking for a "chemical vest", which could be used by a suicide bomber. The wearer would suffer a long and painful death.

Detectives believe it is more likely that sarin or an alternative nerve agent would be released from a canister or flask.

Forensic experts are expected to spend several days at the house of the British born Muslims, who live with their parents.

A team from Porton Down in Wiltshire, the Government research establishment that specialises in chemical and biological agents, is looking for evidence of a so-called "viable weapon" or traces of it.

Police were granted warrants of further detention for the two brothers following a hearing at Bow Street Magistrates Court yesterday afternoon.

The warrants allow them to be detained and questioned until Wednesday.

The raid on the Victorian terraced house involved more than 300 officers and was the largest anti-terrorist operation of the year.

It followed weeks of surveillance based on "specific" intelligence.

Posted by: jeffreyimm at June 3, 2006 9:33 PM

This gives credence to intellegence gathering via telephone monitoring. I don't give a hoot in hell what the Dhimmicrats say; it is very important for NSA and others to listen for this kind of communication. I do take notice that no critic of the NSA's methods have called for its halt. They are merely playing to their ultra liberal base. A base that pays lip-service to civil liberties anyway. I wonder if the links between Canada and the USA would have been discovered without telephone monitoring.

If the NSA has ever picked up a cell phone call of mine, that's OK by me. It doesn't take them long to differentiate between a terrorist conversation and an ordinary call. They are too busy to listen in on innocent people.

I just don't want to loose my head over this Islam thing.

Posted by: Pelayo at June 3, 2006 9:37 PM

The little Jihadis that almost could have had a busy last few days.

The positive thing about these web sites, chat rooms, ect. is they can be watched. The post-Echelon world allows monitering of the net, cell phones, landlines with certain key words, phrases, even voices triggering and keying them for import. These decentralized 'cells' forming out of the blue rely on the net for nourishment.

I agree that perhaps we are talking about building a wall on the wrong side of the border! Oh, Cannada! Perhaps we need a cement barrier on both sides of the US of A.

It also goes to show you that in a land where the government has bent over backwards with the welcoming mat, free immigration, luke warm on Israel, and positively cold on Iraq . . . it was all for naught. Perhaps the harder one strives to be the perfect dhimmi, it can blow up in your face--literally and as metaphor.

Hopefully some taboo topics will be opened. Like open borders. Immigration by Muslims ect. and not a second too late.

Posted by: biorabbi at June 3, 2006 9:57 PM

Kudos to the RCMPs! Let's see if the mainstream media will show pictures of these crumbs...
D. Ox

Posted by: Dumb Ox at June 3, 2006 9:57 PM

After years of turning a blind eye to what was happening in Canada under the appeasement policies of Martin,his chickens have now come home to roost. NEVER EXPECT GRATITUDE FROM MUSLIMS.No matter that Canadian Government bent over backwards in a very Dhimmi position to accomodate avowed terrorists-generously supporting them with every welfare benefit going-they still want to attack Infidels on Canadian soil.
WE ARE ALL INFIDELS TO THEM.
The only loyalty Muslims have is to their accursed Ummah not to the Host Countries which allow them to breed and practise Dawah in fertile
recruiting ground of converting criminals to Islam.
Yesterday a Muslim in Auckland, a Dairy owner, wanted Sharia law for thieves practised in New Zealand- their hands amputated! People might shrug and say NEVER but the INTENT is there-just waiting for the moment to establish 'glorious Islamic solutions' the more gory the better.
Of course the Terrorists are connected to each other by the Web of the Internet and Global Cells
which have infiltrated every country in the world.There's nowhere to run to and nowhere to hide-the showdown with rivers of blood comes closer every day.

Posted by: Morgane at June 3, 2006 9:58 PM

Because Sunni and Shia never talk...its not the same Islam......I got some ocean front property in Arizona.........TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad here Saturday stressed the importance of bolstering ties and consultations with Saudi Arabia on issues affecting the Islamic world.

President Ahmadinejad, in a telephone conversation with Saudi King Abdullah bin Abd al-Aziz, discussed the latest developments in the Islamic world and the region, IRNA said.

King Abdullah, who praised the "friendly" and "increasing" ties of his country with Iran, called for increased cooperation and consultations by the two sides to help resolve issues affecting the Islamic world as well as reinforced security and stability in the region.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8503130374

Posted by: storagemanager at June 3, 2006 10:00 PM

Well done to the Mounties. Will this wake up the average Canadian. Will they see that we are also a target of the global jihad? I am not holding my breath. When I mentioned to people before that there were training camps in Canada all I got was rolling eyes and laughs. The average Canadian lives in denial. I think the average North Korean has more perspective. These arrests will change nothing. They saved lives but people here will continue supporting terrorists with empty slogans like " one man's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter"

Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at June 3, 2006 10:12 PM

europe came to an alliance with the arab world, partly for oil, partly for protection against terrorism, partly in the context of a fantasy of french or european dominance. hasn't worked out too well.

now, as seen in Canada, jihad is being championed by citizens who are not ethnically Arab.

someday, western decision-makers will begin to think about framing laws to rescind the citizenship of jihadis, including CAIR mouthpieces. for now, a growing number of people perceive that Islam is itself a problem.

and now this: support for Palestinian Arabs is waning among the European "opinion elites," even in France.

http://tinyurl.com/rbklv

Posted by: StillBreathing at June 3, 2006 10:13 PM

OT

The u.n is holding a conference to ban civilian firearm ownership worldwide on july 4th.This link has info,and a letter,to send to the u.n.

Posted by: patriot4 at June 3, 2006 10:27 PM

biorabbi l like reading your posts, but this one about a cement wall between the US and Canada to stop terrorist coming from Canada is not going to solve the problem, and fails to look at recent terror attacks in the US from muslim entering the US from the middle east and Europe. you have already networks in the US so the cement wall is not logical. l know talking to a local pakistani person who now refused to cross into the US because of all the hastles he gets, is telling me at least the border people are doing their job. l know this news is getting to Canadians, as now my sister who use to say l was being paranoid aka racist about muslims is finally seeing the light. l have sent her links from this websites esp. the ones from Fr.blogs, which she reads and is so upset at how these monsters would now attack people in Canada.. also l heard the usual cair appologist blaming Bush, l am putting together a letter to editorial, that is pc for them to print, about its a lame excuse for cdn muslims to attack innocent Cdns due to percieved attacks on muslims by the west, when in fact many Christians and non muslims have been killed and attacked in muslim countries. this news has really hit home, l did tell my sister that this is only the tip of the iceberg, as other islamofacists cells still operate within Canada.

Posted by: Lulu at June 3, 2006 10:49 PM

MUSLIMS-------------
++++++++++++++++++++
They include men of Somali, Egyptian, Jamaican, and Trinidadian origin. All are residents of Canada and “for the most part” all are Canadian citizens, police said.
Charged are: Fahim Ahmad, 21, Zakaria Amara, 20, Asad Ansari, 21, Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mohammed Dirie, 22, Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Jahmaal James, 23, Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Steven Vikash Chand, 25, and Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21.
“For various reasons, they appear to have become adherents to a violent ideology inspired by al-Qaida,” said Luc Portelance, the CSIS assistant director of operations.
“Any movement that has the ability to turn people against their fellow citizens is obviously something that CSIS is very concerned about.”
++++++++++++++++

WAKE UP CANADA AND WAKE UP WORLD smell reality:::: men from islamic countries may have become a citizen of your country but they will never quit being muslim and all of their loyalties belong only to islam.

The bombs and terror is coming from muslims and islam.

1. If you do not prepare, you will die.

2. If you do not arm, you can not defend your family religion and country.

3. If you are not ready before the terror starts, it will be too late. See Number 1 above.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.

Posted by: Texican at June 3, 2006 10:56 PM

Texican.....You are so right....as Muslim after Muslim has said.....Islam knows no borders.....Because the world must be Islam....Why won't people understand?

Posted by: storagemanager at June 3, 2006 11:14 PM

Gosh! The "terrorists" might have worldwide contacts?!! How could this be!?! Stop the presses! Alert the President! Call the Pope!

This entire thing is beyond absurdity by now. How much longer can the world ignore the threat of Islam and cloak these enemies in every shade of denial possible? It seems to be almost infinitely....

The world truly is rife with cowards and fools.

Posted by: Foehammer at June 3, 2006 11:20 PM

WHY IRAN WILL DO ANYTHING...EVEN PUT A BOMB BELT ON THE WHOLE COUNTRY....THE HAND THAT REACHES BEYOND THE GRAVE.......A ceremony to commemorate the 17th anniversary of the demise of the Founder of Islamic Republic, the late Imam Khomeini, was held in the Imam Reza mosque in Brussels Saturday night.

An Arab preacher, Sheikh Abdullah, lauded Imam Khomeini's unflinching struggle to restore the pride and dignity of the Iranian people in particular and Muslims in general by standing up against the arrogant powers.

"The enemies cannot extinguish the light of the Islamic Revolution. O Imam Khomeini ! your soul is with us," he said.

Speaking in Arabic and French, the preacher pointed out that Imam Khomeini proved to the world that Islam is real democracy and grants real freedom to the people.

He noted that without any soldiers and army, Imam Khomeini brought down strong Western-supported dictatorship of the Shah.

Another speaker recited poetry in Arabic in praise of the noble soul of Imam Khomeini.

Arab and Iranian residents of Brussels and members of the Iranian embassy staff including ambassador Ali Ahani participated in the ceremony.

http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-22/0606049656010834.htm

Posted by: storagemanager at June 3, 2006 11:34 PM

I'm apologize for going off topic, but is anyone familiar with the following quote, where I can find it? Thank you.

"The best of you are the kindest to their wives and I am your best of mine." Muhammad

Posted by: Greg at June 4, 2006 12:24 AM

Come to Canada, blow up our children, its okay we are weak pascifists. You leftists make me sick!
Posted by: winston

I was watching Canadian leftist (CTV) news a while ago.

It's pathetic how leftist media such as that completely and perposely ignore the underlying cause for these "radical" Islamic "youth".

Why is it leftist media Canada or anywhere else, can't pick up a koran and read it?

Why is it that MSM can't, like everyone else with internet access, simply tune in to what Imams all over the world, and in the heart of Islam -the ME- and see what they are teaching?

Is it so difficult for suposedly educated "journalists" to open up a Koran, and examine the hadith (the ways of Mohammad) and see what the root of terrorism is? To discover the very reason why groups like Al-quada and the Taliban exist?

Why is it media is so afraid to tell the truth?

Day by day, the general public is becoming better educated, thanks to web sites such as this, of the real causes of war and death in this world, and what has been the cause of war and death in this world since Mohammad invented this evil blood cult.

No longer are people duped by the revisionist history spewed out by the left in a pathetic attempt to advance the cause of their own totalitarian communist dogma.

Media had better smarten up and go back to the days when reporting the news involved telling the truth, not advancing their political beliefs at the expense of the general publics lives.

By hiding the TRUTH of why the west is entering into a world wide war against a totalitarian
dogma hidden under a fake religion, they endanger us all. It can be considered espionage, conspiring with the enemy.

Wake up MSM!! The TRUTH as to why this crap happens is spelled out clearly in Islams so called (un)holy book and in the words and actions 9hadith) of it's sick, demented, discusting, muerderous pedophile prophet "Mohammad."

shaq:204 “‘Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?’ ‘Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.’”

For mainstream media to hide the TRUTH of what Islam is, and to mislead the public, (which it is suppossed to serve) is endangering their very lives. This is not a time for political bias,
this is a time for national security, a time in which MSM should be doing it's part serving the nation, not trying to DESTROY it.

Same on you, MSM

Posted by: Mullahmasher at June 4, 2006 12:55 AM

Come to Canada, blow up our children, its okay we are weak pascifists. You leftists make me sick!
Posted by: winston

I was watching Canadian leftist (CTV) news a while ago.

It's pathetic how leftist media such as that completely and perposely ignore the underlying cause for these "radical" Islamic "youth".

Why is it leftist media Canada or anywhere else, can't pick up a koran and read it?

Why is it that MSM can't, like everyone else with internet access, simply tune in to what Imams all over the world, and in the heart of Islam -the ME- and see what they are teaching?

Is it so difficult for suposedly educated "journalists" to open up a Koran, and examine the hadith (the ways of Mohammad) and see what the root of terrorism is? To discover the very reason why groups like Al-quada and the Taliban exist?

Why is it media is so afraid to tell the truth?

Day by day, the general public is becoming better educated, thanks to web sites such as this, of the real causes of war and death in this world, and what has been the cause of war and death in this world since Mohammad invented this evil blood cult.

No longer are people duped by the revisionist history spewed out by the left in a pathetic attempt to advance the cause of their own totalitarian communist dogma.

Media had better smarten up and go back to the days when reporting the news involved telling the truth, not advancing their political beliefs at the expense of the general publics lives.

By hiding the TRUTH of why the west is entering into a world wide war against a totalitarian
dogma hidden under a fake religion, they endanger us all. It can be considered espionage, conspiring with the enemy.

Wake up MSM!! The TRUTH as to why this crap happens is spelled out clearly in Islams so called (un)holy book and in the words and actions 9hadith) of it's sick, demented, discusting, muerderous pedophile prophet "Mohammad."

shaq:204 “‘Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man?’ ‘Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.’”

For mainstream media to hide the TRUTH of what Islam is, and to mislead the public, (which it is suppossed to serve) is endangering their very lives. This is not a time for political bias,
this is a time for national security, a time in which MSM should be doing it's part serving the nation, not trying to DESTROY it.

Shame on you, MSM

Posted by: Mullahmasher at June 4, 2006 12:57 AM

As always for us amateur sleuths, Google is our friend. A Google search shows that this Zakaria Amara, one of those arrested, is quite a poet:

A LITTLE MUSLIM FROM PALESTINE
I'll always be a contender
Yes, I know my bones are very tender
And by Allah you won't see me surrender
Look at my eyes? You'll see no butterflies
My home is filled with cries... due to all the lost lives
But I swear by Allah I'll never compromise
I'll still throw the stones even with my broken bones
Why can't I hear from you, don't you have any phones?
Ya I forgot, your not on the chase, try it out and put your self in my place
Soon I'll return to my lord , the one that deserves every grace
Oh you don't have to worry cause of me you'll find no trace
It really is to late, why did you wait?
You could have sent me at least one dinner plate
I guess it is my fate
And La Ilaha Illa Allah is my mate.

Contributed by : Zakaria Amara

Where are the Malcolms and where are the X's
People of today come back to your senses
Before the day comes where there'll be no recompenses
We are wasting our time at heaven's expenses
Claim over the fences and lay over the Benz's
The west looks at me with a funny type of way
Frown, clown do what you want but I'll never turn around
From the sunnah of the Prophet and the Holy Quran
Which makes up the perfect deen, the religion of Islam
I am filled with peace when at the masjid I hear the Iqama
But when I show more interest they call me Osama
Just trying to practice my deen so they call me extreme
They tell me I am too young, I am only sixteen
With Muslims of today there will be no sallah-u-deen
So wake up and come back home
How many times do we hear it, do we need a different tone?
It is time to go out there and get our Islam shown

Contributed by: Zakaria Amara
zack_amara@hotmail.com

Posted by: Steven L. at June 4, 2006 12:57 AM

This entire thing is beyond absurdity by now. How much longer can the world ignore the threat of Islam and cloak these enemies in every shade of denial possible? It seems to be almost infinitely..........As long as Rod Serling is President of the World Foehammer...the World of the Twilight Zone...Gee its up to us to say no thanks Rod......Dark and Hostile just doesn't suit me.

Posted by: storagemanager at June 4, 2006 12:57 AM

oops, for some reason it double posted, pilot error due to sluggish hang (possibly due to a exessive post sub routine)

Posted by: Mullahmasher at June 4, 2006 12:59 AM

do not resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it parts for the time with reality. -Winston Churchill .....Fight on foehammer...you are heard.
---

Posted by: storagemanager at June 4, 2006 1:04 AM

"...a violent ideology inspired by Al Queada!"

...and who inspired Al Quaeda????"

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at June 4, 2006 1:05 AM

biorabbi says: "Perhaps the harder one strives to be the perfect dhimmi, it can blow up in your face--literally and as metaphor."

What Canada fails to understand today, is exactly what Belgium and Holland failed to understand in 1939-1940: Declarations of neutrality are routinely ignored by aggressors. And a foreign policy of appeasement and pacifism just gets a nation labeled as weak in the eyes of aggressors. The aggressors seek to divide the coalition of democratic nations, by attacking and defeating the weakest members of the coalition first. If the jihadists perceive Canada as easy pickings, an easy way for jihadists to get on the scoreboard, then that's the nation they will attack.

Osama bin Laden said: "When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature they will like the strong horse." In other words, the only thing that impresses the jihadists is raw, naked, ruthless force.

Posted by: Steven L. at June 4, 2006 1:15 AM

...and who inspired Al Quaeda????"

Posted by: sheik yer'mami

That's what MSM is too afraid to say. But bashing Christians if perfectly fine.

Saying that MOHAMMAD inspires terrorism is just too much truth for MSM to publish.

I noticed CTV news in Canada was doing all it could to promote that vile, piece of fiction called the Duh-vinci code.

Too bad that sucky little lefty "shamas" one of it's morning show's news spokespersons, doesn't have the guts to say anything about islam.

At least out in western Canada, they weren't afraid to publish the Mohammad cartoons in "The Western Standard". It's publisher held his ground and rights to free speech. I look forward to the next edition and commentary about this arrest of Muslim terrorists in Islamic appeasing Toronto.

It's so obvious and shameful that Liberal's need to import terrorists who want to destroy the country, just to get a vote and stay in power.
Like Liberals in the USA, they don't care about the country, all they care about is ruling.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at June 4, 2006 1:29 AM

Guerrilla Marketing and Dissemination of Information

I was at Borders today (yeah yeah, I know) ... while there, I gathered up all the copies they had of "Islam Unveiled" (the only Spencer book in stock). One was place face out over the Korans on the shelf. Another was placed on the "Summer Reading" table. A third was placed on the best seller shelf.

I think I will be visiting Barnes and Noble tomorrow ...

Posted by: LissaKay at June 4, 2006 1:31 AM

America belongs to Americans...are they blue?......Are they red?......maybe black or brown....maybe green.....America is not a color.....Its an idea....of freedom......a long time a go in a land far far away.....men knew this.

Posted by: storagemanager at June 4, 2006 1:50 AM

"I think I will be visiting Barnes and Noble tomorrow ...

Posted by: LissaKay

LoL!

That's a good idea. Next time I'm book shopping I'll keep you in mind.

Posted by: Mullahmasher at June 4, 2006 1:51 AM

foehammer......problems are nails......hammer the answer.

Posted by: storagemanager at June 4, 2006 2:02 AM

T

Posted by: km at June 4, 2006 2:06 AM

Stillbreathing,

Your link to the article about the growing disenchantment with the "Palestinians" among Europeans is fascinating.Support for the so-called "Palestinians" has fallen dramatically in Europe in a very short time. Particularly in France where Muslim "youth" rioted just a few months. This tells me that even in Europe people are growing tired of Islam.

Posted by: Roxane at June 4, 2006 2:57 AM

When I make my shopping run down the hill to the mall in Palm Desert tomorrow, I'll make a stop at the Borders Books and at Barnes and Noble. I plan to pick out all the Qurans and place them in the gay and lesbian section.

Muuuuuuuhahaha.

::::::aaaaarf::::::

Posted by: DesertDawgN29 at June 4, 2006 4:23 AM

biorabbi,

"Perhaps the harder one strives to be the perfect dhimmi, it can blow up in your face--literally and as metaphor."

I don't think it makes very much difference what we (Canada) do or don't do in regards to how Muslims react to us. Muslim groups will attack any non-Muslims that are near them, regardless of whether those non-Muslims act like dhimmis or not. This can be verified by looking at countries or regions throughout the world in which Muslim and non-Muslim groups live in close proximity to each other. Nevertheless, the general policy of groups such as al-Qaeda (and these homegrown groups) is to attack countries that are involved in fighting Muslims or opposing Islam. That's why Canada is on al-Qaeda's hit-list (we were, at one time, number 5 on the list; and note that numbers 1-4 inclusive have already been hit with at least one major terrorist attack). The U.S. and Israel most strongly resist the jihadists, therefore the jihadists prioritize and attack them the most.

Regarding Iraq, I would hardly call Canada's non-participation in that war a reflection of dhimmitude. (Indeed, we were in the coalition until the coalition decided to break international law). Plenty of people (our own Hugh Fitzgerald no less) have presented arguments that the operation in Iraq was on the balance strategically wrong and ineffective in defeating the Islamic threat. At least at present, this appears to be correct. In any case, I suspect that opposition to the war in Iraq is at least as strong in the U.S. as it is in Canada. Does that make the U.S. dhimmi by your criteria?

Your statements about a cement barrier strike me as silly. I have come to expect the customary comments from American posters talking about bombing Canada (or gloating over the prospect of Canada being bombed), erecting walls, etc., any time a "Canada" story comes up.

The way I look at it is this: If you can't get along with Canada, you've got problems.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 4, 2006 8:12 AM

Steven L.,

You have some intelligent comments in you posts above, but...

"What Canada fails to understand today, is exactly what Belgium and Holland failed to understand in 1939-1940: Declarations of neutrality are routinely ignored by aggressors.

...you fail to provide any evidence that Canada has declared neutrality. How can we be neutral if we are at war in Afghanistan?

Do you mean that some members of the population think that we can dodge trouble by pulling out? There is some evidence for that attitude--some Canadians truly are naive or are biased with regard to the Islam threat. However--and correct me if I'm wrong--the growing sentiment in the U.S. is that pulling out of Iraq will reduce these kinds of problems with the Muslim world.

Also, I don't know of people in Canada or anywhere else who are actually neutral with regard to terrorism(!) The chief problem, as in all western countries, is the general public's lack of knowledge that the threat is an Islamic one, and is larger and more complex than they realize. To my knowledge, none of the "western" leaders have specifically taken a clear stand against Islam (the closest to a clear stand may be Australia's Howard). Indeed, Bush and Blair have made positively assinine, deceptive, reckless, irresponsible statements to their publics about "peaceful Islam" etc. Generally, most politicians, and the media, throughout the western world, have failed to take a clear critical stand against Islam.

Next, you state:
"If the jihadists perceive Canada as easy pickings, an easy way for jihadists to get on the scoreboard, then that's the nation they will attack."

This is not so simple. On the one hand, if this were true, al-Qaeda would have Sweden at the top of its hit-list, not the U.S. On the other hand, countries that are especially affected by the multiculturalist PC ideology (including most of the European countries, Canada, and even the U.S. to a lesser extent) are more vulnerable to other kinds of attacks on the non-Muslim population, such as crime, intimidation, censorship of criticism of Islam, attempts to impose sharia bit-by-bit, etc. We don't normally call this "terrorism," but certainly what is happening in Europe (riots, rapes, crime sprees by so-called disaffected youths) is a variation of terrorism (i.e., the use of threat against civilians to manipulate political outcomes). Of course, all of these countries, Canada included, have very weak immigration policies that permit in people who possess ideologies that are contrary and hostile to that of the host nation. Canada is perceived as an easy target for immigration, yes.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 4, 2006 9:02 AM

Archimedes, you're right. If you can't get along with Canada, you've got problems.

But, re biorabbi's [bad] suggestion about a Great Wall of America on both borders, perhaps one of the USA's problems is that it does get along with Canada--and the cooperation of the terrorists on both sides is the flip side of a very good coin. However, it is also likely that enough incidents like the one just reported will also give rise to a Canadian backlash against the multiculties and their ilk.

Posted by: Kepha at June 4, 2006 9:04 AM

-Archimedes,

Two things.

First, what biorabbi said was no less silly than your statement:

I have come to expect the customary comments from American posters talking about bombing Canada (or gloating over the prospect of Canada being bombed), erecting walls, etc., any time a "Canada" story comes up.

Either complain about a silly statement or respond with one yourself. Doing both is bad form.

Second, hate to break it to you, but read the '91 ceasefire if you haven't already. If you have, please read it again before trotting out the dead horse on the back of which rides the "war was illegal" parrot. If the war was illegal, the UN would have been the first to whine about it. Just because Michael Moore repeats something ad nauseum doesn't make it true.

You don't like people saying mean things about Canada? Sorry, but we in America have heard more than you have. I guarantee it. Its usually alot more viscious, too.

And this may come as a shocker, but more badmouthing seems to run north -> south than the reverse. It got old a long time ago.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 4, 2006 9:05 AM

In any case, the point of the above was snarkiness between allies shouldn't be promulgated or nurtured. I've bitten my virtual tongue many times when I've seen comments I didn't like made by people with whom I usually agree. I save my fire for the real enemies. Defensiveness only creates targets for attack (Hey, what are those guys guarding? If they're guarding it, it must be important. Let's call in the arty!).

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 4, 2006 9:14 AM

Archimedes -- you make many good points above -- and Canada is far far more a friend to the US than not. It's almost absurd saying something like that, but in today's climate, it's necessary. I think you must be aware that there's a shrinking willingness in the USA to put up with sometimes allies who wallow in rank anti-American scapegoatism -- I'm not saying it's as bad in Canada, but the politics and Press do suffer from this same malady which is so endemic in Europe and the UK.

It's very sad, and it must be remarked on. It's also critical to understand that this friction was deliberately exploited on 9/11, and it was a desired byproduct of that attack -- we're still feeling the reverberations. Be certain that Canadian Muslims take heart in our frictions.

We're delighted to see mature adults defeat the craven immaturity of Chretien, Ducros, et al. (Maybe now we'll see funding dry up for that government sponsored malign megaphone of terror-sympathizing America bashing moral equivalency, the CBC? It would ease things even more and be a great boon to your civilization, IMHO.)

We two should always be the best of friends --and anyone who tries to incite rancor should be slapped repeatedly. We don't want to re-deploy Triumph the Insult Dog -- it should only be our last resort!

Posted by: jsla at June 4, 2006 10:13 AM

storagemanager:

It just suddenly dawned on me that I bought a new hammer for my toolbox a couple of days ago. And yes, it was Made in the U.S.A., of course. I'll take it as an omen; I'll take anything as a happy omen in these dark times....

Posted by: Foehammer at June 4, 2006 10:36 AM

Well,

atleast now Canada will rethink its policies and see if the shit happened before they caught it, what was supposed to happen.

Guys, I went to a pakistani restaurant and this was what they were talking and the posters I saw inside...

There is an opening of Madrassa(not to mention religious school where all jihadis are prepared) and the guys were asking for money. Why do u need madrassa in Canada? if you think your way of education and religious schools is correct stay where are u coming from. If these guys go to those madrasas, what they gonna learn is.. Islam is in danger and west is responsible, lets bomb them and if they try to catch us, lets play the racial discrimination game.

Freaking Muslims.

he am a muslim and he know how to chill,
he blows a bomb all for a thrill...

I am just concerned that this is one plot which they found, what about the others which they couldn't unfold.

Canada has always been a safe heaven for terrorists, otherwise how can they have their religious places discussing terrorism openly. I guess people still remember Air India bombing and the guy is out there in open and everyone knows who is it...

I think BUSH was wrong going for Saddam as he should have realised there are so many Saddams sitting at home and why is he sending his army out to capture just one, clean up the country first...

Aman

Posted by: Aman at June 4, 2006 3:26 PM

"Al-Qa'eda sympathisers "

Or, they follow Islam?

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at June 4, 2006 4:15 PM

Eisenhund,

I've bitten my tongue many a time as well. I know there are plenty of loose cannons and both sides. Of course, I've never seen a Canadian poster talk about bombing the U.S. Actually, what I said about anti-Canadian comments from American posters was not silly but is simply an observation. If you go back through the "Canada" posts and you will see that there are consistently anti-Canadian posts. These would be almost as silly as criticizing "America" every time some home-spun jihadist or sharia-enthusiast activity takes place there. But if my comment came across as an over-generalization about American posters--and certainly I could have worded it more precisely--I apologize for that. (More accurate would be "some American posters").

For the record, though, biorabbi did gloat about the prospect of Canadians being bombed, did propose the silly idea of a wall between Canada and the U.S., and at least one other poster on the other "Canada" thread of this day did talk about bombing Canada. These kinds of comments on JW are quite frequent. This is what I was responding to. I will also add that biorabbi normally has intelligent comments.

As for the "war being illegal" comment, I'm not sure that you have understood my point. I was stating a matter of fact, not my opinion, regarding the circumstances building up to the most recent war in Iraq. I personally would not base my support or non-support of a war (war in Iraq) on whether a body such as the U.N. considered it illegal. On the other hand, politicians care about such things and apparently U.N. approval and sticking to the agreed-upon process of inspections was important to the Canadian politicians at the time. Biorabbi's comment suggested this was due to dhimmitude of Canada. That's unlikely, as I said, because Canada's policy was to go into Iraq as part of NATO.

I have no problem with legitimate criticisms of Canada. There are plenty of them in these threads. I've made plenty of them myself. My problem, which is minor, has to do with the recurring and annoying comments which don't really serve a purpose.

I also have gotten into plenty of arguments with those who wish to blame "America" for these problems with the jihadists.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 4, 2006 11:30 PM

That's all very interesting, but what do you think about Triumph?

Posted by: jsla at June 4, 2006 11:36 PM

Eh?

Posted by: jsla at June 4, 2006 11:37 PM

Jsla,

Good points. I agree with both of you and Eisenhund on this (re squabbling between allies). Valid criticism is of course needed and is most welcome. I think your comments about the CBC with regard to their (biased) coverage of Islam are accurate. (I've watched their coverage closely since 9/11.) Just a few hours ago they had an "expert" on there saying that "99.9%" of Muslims do not support terrorism. There was no other speaker interviewed to give a differing view on the percentage of Muslims in Canada who support terrorism generally, and against domestic targets specifically. I had an e-mail exchange with a top official in the CBC a few months back re their coverage of the cartoon fury, and it is clear to me that, from the top level, they are doing everything they can to protect Islam on the stated premise that they are protecting Muslims and their religion from prejudice.

The results of this policy are obvious: Views that are directly critical of Islam do not appear.

Posted by: Archimedes at June 4, 2006 11:46 PM

Jsla, what is Trumph?

Posted by: Archimedes at June 4, 2006 11:47 PM

-Archimedes,

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up. I think you and I are not of one mind concerning the legality issue, but that's not really germaine to the forum and doesn't prevent me from standing with you in most other posts you submit.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 5, 2006 12:41 AM

Eisenhund,

Thanks. You may be correct about the legality issue. It's a question of interpretation.

Anyways, onward with our task!

Posted by: Archimedes at June 5, 2006 1:58 AM

You don't know Triumph the Insult Dog?! He's a raunchy hand puppet of a little dog, famous for his witty scathing reparte. Two or three years ago he accompanied one of our late night comics Conan O'Brien to Quebec (I believe) where he caused an international crisis between the Canada and the US. Apparently, nerves were so rattled in Canada after the US Lead War of Imperialist Occupation and the revelations about Canadian hatred against "morons", that when Triumph began taking on the seppo Francophones (read Canadian insurrectionists), all hell broke loose.

We learned to our amazement that some of the people who are accustomed to doling out wicked abuse are altogether incapable of receiving it, even if the context was satirical and extremely funny. While the clips were hilarious to me, tons of Canadians became furious, and just couldn't handle it. Eventually Canadian authorities blocked the broadcasts in Canada, which completely stunned many of us in America. Perhaps this is partially why you never heard about it. It became a bizarre lightning rod for the new lows achieved in Canada/US relations... And it was a revelation to many of us to learn how seethingly pissed off and hate filled many Canadians were towards America through the incident. It opened my eyes, and really started me monitoring your Nationalized Press in particular.

I grew up across from Windsor, and absolutely love Canada. I also adore the wicked "Insult" puppet, and live in the epicenter of TVland, so perhaps the "controversy" was easier to monitor here after the kerfuffle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Triumph_in_Quebec.jpg

Posted by: jsla at June 5, 2006 12:59 PM