I suspect that there are many others like this in countries like NZ. The neon "We're terror friendly here!" advertisements which nations such as NZ hoisted in the 9/11 aftermath probably attracted quite a few to their shores. Canada, Ireland, UK, most of continental Western Europe, nearly all of Central and South America - these are places where cock-roaches fled and multiplied after 9/11. I am not sanguine in the slightest about our abominable security inadequacies in the USA. But I do take a small degree of comfort in believing that terrorists are impeded in the US far more than they are in nearly every other nation.

It's chilling to think that if the US needs to do much MUCH more, the rest of the World has barely begun to understand the peril they're in... While America is still the ultimate target, everyone is low hangin fruit for the enemy.

Posted by: jsla at June 9, 2006 5:27 PM

Also, his travels since 9/11 including his money trail will prove most illuminating.

Posted by: jsla at June 9, 2006 5:30 PM

And yet Robert's found himself on the no-fly list.

That inspires confidence. That is, in road trips, rather than flying.

Posted by: Shinoliite at June 9, 2006 5:33 PM

It's funny how many Moslems, particularly those from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, are repatrioting to their countires of origin. Some have expressed fear for their safety but most
fear that their accounts will be frozen. While few non-Moslems will miss the false smiles of these "refugees," I can't help but wonder how much of the money that they're taking with them goes towards supporting the Rayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali's of the world.

Creatures such as Rayed Mohammed Abdullah Ali and his sponsors are encouraged to lie and dissemble by their deity (and maybe their deity is doing a little lying and dissembling of his own). All the more reason to demand proof of goodwill from those espousing the political philosophy known as Islam.

Posted by: Chatillon at June 9, 2006 5:43 PM

Shinoliite, not even the roads are safe.

(Not that the fact that he served in the Muslim army in the Serbian-Croatian War was in any way relevant to the story)

Posted by: special_guest at June 9, 2006 5:51 PM

Why does this guy still have vital signs? Why hasn't he met with some 'unfortunate accident' on his way back to the hive/Saudi Arabia? It just don't add up.

Posted by: YankeeInfidel at June 9, 2006 6:25 PM

Ishaq:240 “The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people ( THIS MEANS LOVE IN ARABIC)........Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.” ( THIS MEANS PEACE IN ARABIC!)...........Ishaq:250 “The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised.” ( THIS MEANS KINDNESS IN ARABIC!)

Posted by: storagemanager at June 9, 2006 7:17 PM

Qur’an:3:152 “Allah did indeed fulfill His promise to you when you; with His permission were about to annihilate your enemy, until you flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which you covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter.” ( YES THE LIFE OF ISLAM..RAPE..MURDER...PILLAGE...WHERE IS THE LOVE?....DAMN SONG)

Posted by: storagemanager at June 9, 2006 7:40 PM

computer hacker stole a file containing the names and Social Security numbers of 1,500 people working for the Energy Department's nuclear weapons agency.

Officials told a congressional hearing Friday that the department's senior managers were informed only two days ago of last September's incident, which was somewhat similar to recent problems at the Veterans Affairs Department. None of the victims was notified, they said.

The data theft occurred in a computer system at a service center belonging to the National Nuclear Security Administration in New Mexico. The file contained information about contract workers throughout the agency's nuclear weapons complex, a department spokesman said.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1149572651433&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Posted by: storagemanager at June 9, 2006 8:08 PM

I would like to take flight lessons. However, I am not interested in learning how to take-off. Instead, only want to know how to control the plane and then land it in the event of a South Asian takeover of a flight. You can never trust those Cambodians.

Where can I find a school to do this, NZ?

Posted by: Kafir Nonbeliever at June 9, 2006 8:43 PM

Don't you think that is scary? Young muslim males taking flight lessons? Why do these people have to become pilots? Can't they let the infidels do the flying? Hell, in Saudia Arabia, they don't do anything else themselves. So why should they do the flying? Hmmmm...

No. No. Let's have a new rule at IATA. Nobody named "Mohammad anything" or "anything Mohammad" should be able to take flying lessons.

I remember a few years ago I was at the ministry getting a registration permit number for my ultralight aircraft. In walks a mo, an airline pilot, by all accounts of the conversation he had with the clerk. He was trying to get a licence to fly and work in Canada. I was thinking to myself, why would this guy need to come from the Middle East to fly planes here?

Who knows how many islamic pilots who are currently working in the west, are really terrorists in situ, just there in case they are ever called upon. Who needs to storm a cockpit when your man is already inside it. Naturally, the FAA thinks about securing cockpit doors. What they should be thinking about is guys named Mohammad who come over here to fly commercial jets. So back to my rule: If you have "mohammad" in your name anywhere, or you have ever had it in your name, no soup for you. And no pilot's licence.

Posted by: somethingaboutislam at June 9, 2006 9:17 PM

Just a reminder??

How I miss this Guy??

Some of you smart guys may want to look up the link I forgot to get it could someone find it for me please??

Testimony of Attorney General John Ashcroft
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
April 13, 2004

Thank you.
It is with great sorrow that I join this Commission today in reflection on September 11, 2001. Even today, 31 months after the attacks, I struggle to learn the lessons of that day without being overwhelmed by the losses of that day. I feel sorrow for the loss of life, sorrow for the loss of promise, sorrow for the lost innocence of a nation forever scarred.
My sorrow for the victims of September 11 is equaled only by my rage at their killer. Usama Bin Laden is to blame for my anger. I blame his hatred for our values, his perversion of a faith, his idolatry of death. It was his hand that took the lives of nearly 3,000 innocents on September 11. It is his face that is the face of evil.
September 11 revealed not just our enemy's capacity for murder but our fellow Americans' thirst for justice. The men and women of the Department of Justice have embraced the cause of our time: the protection of the lives and liberties of Americans. Working within the Constitution, we fight any battle and shoulder any burden -- no matter personal or political cost -- to prevent additional terrorist attacks. And for the time being, al Qaeda's slaughter has ceased on American soil.
We have been aggressive. We have been tough. And we have suffered no small amount of criticism for our tough tactics. We accept this criticism for what it is: the price we are privileged to pay for our liberty.
Had I known a terrorist attack on the United States was imminent in 2001, I would have unloaded our full arsenal of weaponry against it -- despite the inevitable criticism. The Justice Department's warriors, our agents, and our prosecutors would have been unleashed. Every tough tactic we have deployed since the attacks would have been deployed before the attacks.
But the simple fact of September 11 is this: we did not know an attack was coming because for nearly a decade our government had blinded itself to its enemies. Our agents were isolated by government-imposed walls, handcuffed by government-imposed restrictions, and starved for basic information technology. The old national intelligence system in place on September 11 was destined to fail.
This Commission can serve a noble purpose. Your responsibility is to examine the root causes of September 11 and to help the United States prevent another terrorist attack. Your duty is solemn and sobering. But I, too, have a duty today. I have sworn to tell the whole truth, and I intend to fulfill this obligation.
Today I will testify to four central issues which have not been developed fully in the Commission's work and deserve your attention.
First, this Commission has debated the nature of the covert action authorities directed at Usama Bin Laden prior to 2001. In February 2001, shortly after becoming Attorney General, I reviewed these authorities.
Let me be clear: My thorough review revealed no covert action program to kill Bin Laden. There was a covert-action program to capture Bin Laden for criminal prosecution. But even this program was crippled by a snarled web of requirements, restrictions and regulations that prevented decisive action by our men and women in the field.
When they most needed clear, understandable guidance, our agents and operatives were given the language of lawyers. Even if they could have penetrated Bin Laden's training camps, they would have needed a battery of attorneys to approve the capture. With unclear guidance, our covert action team's risk of injury may have exceeded the risk to Usama Bin Laden.
On March 7, 2001, I met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. I recommended that the covert-action authorities be clarified and be expanded to allow for decisive, lethal action; we should end the failed "capture" policy. We should find and kill Bin Laden. I recall that Dr. Rice agreed and gave Director Tenet responsibility for drafting, clarifying, and expanding the new authorities.
My second point today goes to the heart of this Commission's duty to uncover the facts: The single greatest structural cause for September 11 was the wall that segregated criminal investigators and intelligence agents. Government erected this wall. Government buttressed this wall. And before September 11, government was blinded by this wall.
In 1995, the Justice Department embraced flawed legal reasoning, imposing a series of restrictions on the FBI that went beyond what the law required. The 1995 Guidelines and the procedures developed around them imposed draconian barriers to communications between the law enforcement and intelligence communities. The wall "effectively excluded" prosecutors from intelligence investigations. The wall left intelligence agents afraid to talk with criminal prosecutors or agents. In 1995, the Justice Department designed a system destined to fail.
In the days before September 11, the wall specifically impeded the investigation into Zacarias Moussaoui, Khalid al-Midhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. After the FBI arrested Moussaoui, agents became suspicious of his interest in commercial aircraft and sought approval for a criminal warrant to search his computer. The warrant was rejected because FBI officials feared breaching the wall.
When the CIA finally told the FBI that al-Midhar and al-Hazmi were in the country in late August, agents in New York searched for the suspects. But because of the wall, FBI Headquarters refused to allow criminal investigators who knew the most about the most recent al Qaeda attack to join the hunt for the suspected terrorists.
At that time, a frustrated FBI investigator wrote Headquarters, quote, "Whatever has happened to this -- someday someone will die -- and wall or not -- the public will not understand why we were not more effective and throwing every resource we had at certain 'problems'. Let's hope the National Security Law Unit will stand behind their decision then, especially since the biggest threat to us, UBL, is getting the most protection."
FBI Headquarters responded, quote: "We are all frustrated with this issue … These are the rules. NSLU does not make them up."
But somebody did make these rules. Someone built this wall.
The basic architecture for the wall in the 1995 Guidelines was contained in a classified memorandum entitled "Instructions on Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal Investigations." The memorandum ordered FBI Director Louis Freeh and others, quote: "We believe that it is prudent to establish a set of instructions that will more clearly separate the counterintelligence investigation from the more limited, but continued, criminal investigations. These procedures, which go beyond what is legally required, will prevent any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance that FISA is being used to avoid procedural safeguards which would apply in a criminal investigation."
This memorandum established a wall separating the criminal and intelligence investigations following the 1993 World Trade Center attack, the largest international terrorism attack on American soil prior to September 11. Although you understand the debilitating impact of the wall, I cannot imagine that the Commission knew about this memorandum, so I have declassified it for you and the public to review. Full disclosure compels me to inform you that its author is a member of this Commission.
By 2000, the Justice Department was so addicted to the wall, it actually opposed legislation to lower the wall. Finally, the USA PATRIOT ACT tore down this wall between our intelligence and law enforcement personnel in 2001. And when the PATRIOT ACT was challenged, the FISA Court of Review upheld the law, ruling that the 1995 guidelines were required by neither the Constitution nor the law.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN JAMI GRELICK??

READ THE WHOLE THING AND REMEMBER AND NEVER LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN AND THE ENIMIES AND THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THEM MUST BE EXPOSTED!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WRLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at June 9, 2006 9:19 PM

"The neon "We're terror friendly here!" advertisements which nations such as NZ hoisted in the 9/11 aftermath probably attracted quite a few to their shores."

Clearly America has a big "we're xenophobe friendly here!" sign hoisted. I'm sure our brave New Zealand SAS soldiers currently serving in Afghanistan appreciate your sentiments. 'Cos you're doing such a good job at stopping terrorists yourself right?

Posted by: Blair Mulholland at June 9, 2006 9:37 PM

And all they did was deport him? WTF???

How about a firing squad?

Posted by: infidel4life at June 9, 2006 10:17 PM

He wore a baseball cap, smart shirts and baggy trousers and favoured burgers over halal food.

WELL AINT THAT NICE??

Today the Weekend Herald can reveal that on May 29 police and immigration officials raided Ali's Palmerston North home and deported him.

WELL THAT IS GOOD NEWS FOR NZ!!

Mr Cunliffe said Ali's true identity became apparent only after he arrived in New Zealand - "he used a variation of his name in applying for entry".

IT AINT NICE TO FOOL MOTHER NATURE??

The short, clean-cut Muslim told the club's chief flying officer, Captain Ravindra Singh, he had obtained his private pilot's licence in the US and spent several years there before returning to Saudi Arabia to work in his father's textile business.

WELL DON'T THAT BEET ALL WORKING IN THE TEXTILE BUSSNESS MUST BE GOOD IN SA WITH ALL THEM BURKAS??

GOOD JOB NZ FOR KICKING THIS GUY TO THE CURB!!!

THE REST OF THE STORY?

Testimony of Attorney General John Ashcroft
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
April 13, 2004

The third issue I would like to raise with the Commission this afternoon is another limitation government placed on our ability to "connect the dots" of the terrorist threat prior to September 11: the lack of support for information technology at the FBI.
After I became Attorney General in February 2001, it soon became clear that the FBI's computer technology and information management was in terrible shape. The Bureau essentially had 42 separate information systems, none of which were connected. Agents lacked even the most basic Internet technology.
These problems did not just hamper interagency communication; they hindered information sharing with the Justice Department, the intelligence community, and state and local law enforcement. It is no wonder, given the state of its technology, that the Phoenix memo warning that terrorists may be training in commercial aviation was lost in the antique computers at Washington headquarters.
Yet for year after year, the FBI was denied the funds requested for its information technology. Over eight years, the Bureau was denied nearly $800 million of its information technology funding requests. To put this $800 million shortfall in perspective, the Trilogy program, which is now revolutionizing computer, data and information sharing at the Bureau, has cost $580 million.
On September 11, 2001, the FBI's annual technology budget under the prior Administration was actually $36.1 million less than the last Bush budget eight years before. The FBI's information infrastructure had been starved and by September 11 it collapsed from budgetary neglect.
When the Hannsen and McVeigh failures fully exposed that this neglect cost national security, I ordered four independent external reviews of the FBI's information infrastructure under coordination from the Deputy Attorney General. And my first two budgets, both proposed before 9/11, requested a 50 percent increase for FBI information technology.
Finally, the Commission should study carefully the National Security Council plan to disrupt the al Qaeda network in the U.S. that our government failed to implement fully seventeen months before September 11.
The NSC's Millennium After Action Review declares that the United States barely missed major terrorist attacks in 1999 -- with luck playing a major role. Among the many vulnerabilities in homeland defenses identified, the Justice Department's surveillance and FISA operations were specifically criticized for their glaring weaknesses. It is clear from the review that actions taken in the Millennium Period should not be the operating model for the U.S. government.
In March 2000, the review warns the prior Administration of a substantial al Qaeda network and affiliated foreign terrorist presence within the U.S., capable of supporting additional terrorist attacks here.
Furthermore, fully seventeen months before the September 11 attacks, the review recommends disrupting the al Qaeda network and terrorist presence here using immigration violations, minor criminal infractions, and tougher visa and border controls.
These are the same aggressive, often criticized law enforcement tactics we have unleashed for 31 months to stop another al Qaeda attack. These are the same tough tactics we deployed to catch Ali al- Marri, who was sent here by al Qaeda on September 10, 2001, to facilitate a second wave of terrorist attacks on Americans.
Despite the warnings and the clear vulnerabilities identified by the NSC in 2000, no new disruption strategy to attack the al Qaeda network within the United States was deployed. It was ignored in the Department's five-year counterterrorism strategy.
I did not see the highly-classified review before September 11. It was not among the 30 items upon which my predecessor briefed me during the transition. It was not advocated as a disruption strategy to me during the summer threat period by the NSC staff which wrote the review more than a year earlier.
I certainly cannot say why the blueprint for security was not followed in 2000. I do know from my personal experience that those who take the kind of tough measures called for in the plan will feel the heat. I've been there; I've done that. So the sense of urgency simply may not have overcome concern about the outcry and criticism which follows such tough tactics.
I am aware that the issues I have raised this afternoon involve at times painful introspection for this Commission and for the nation. I have spoken out today not to add to the nation's considerable stock of pain, but to heal our wounds. This Commission's heavy burden -- to probe the causes of September 11 -- demands that the record be complete. Our nation's heavy burden -- to learn from the mistakes of our past -- demands that this Commission seeks the whole truth.
May this Commission be successful in its mission. And may we learn well the lessons of history.
I thank members of the Commission for their service and for the opportunity to testify today.
1995 Memo: Instructions on Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal Investigations

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

Posted by: Catherine at June 9, 2006 10:19 PM

YankeeInfidel-

You would think that intelligence services in every country would have a 'one-way airline' on hand for legally problematic but transparently dangerous players like A.

These guys are either loose cannons or mediocre espionage agents- but they are clearly coming back at us with a vengeance if we aren't wise enough to stop them.

By dropping them into oblivion ...released from an airliner doorway. [Ass-kick optional.]

Or, for the morally indecisive, imprisoning these jihadists in solitary, for life.

I favor the catch-and-release (from 30,000 feet) program.

Prisons are too porous. Judges too wobbly.

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 9, 2006 10:34 PM

Thanks New Zealand for sending 50 SAS troops to Afghanistan.

Sorry you decided to ban American nuclear or nuclear equipped war ships from NZ waters. (How yucky would it be if one of those nasty warmongering imperialist death machines hauled up in your trouble free sector of earth! Very disruptive to the local peace and all...)

Sorry for the fact that your successive governments obsessively support the Palestinians and obsessively Bash the Israelis. We're all about equal opportunity in America, so if you bash us, you'd best be willing to stand up and bash our best friends too! We appreciate your equanimity very much.

Sorry about the comments by PM Hamas Clark, er Helen Clark about Al Gore and George Bush and all the virulent commentary about America in your press and on your streets in the leadup to the war. Your support is something we've come to count on. Really! And, despite what they say about you, you've got some really sharp tools in the shed.

Sorry you decided to disband your own combat airforce. (War is really icky!)

I'm reminded of J. Chirac famous quip: "To me, war always means losing." I guess in the middle of the Pacific, you don't need to worry yourselves about defense of country or region, or about little things like military alliances with the xenophobic US and Australia? How nice that must be.

As for "xenophobe friendly here" -- don't be silly. Despite what your spoon fed hard left state run media has to say about us Yanks, we do a better job of assimilating persons from every creed, color and even religion than any one else in the world. You're have trouble sorting out the most simplistic binary racial situations.

Are we perfect? Of course not. But we're certainly not as bad as the cartoon assessments made daily by the millions of thralls such as you who consume the most mind numbing anti-American swill and then repeat it without the slightest of clues.

I certainly didn't mean to cause any offense!

Posted by: jsla at June 9, 2006 10:36 PM

mohammed!!!! Is it the most popular name for skum bags?

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/

Posted by: shiva at June 9, 2006 10:36 PM

Posted by: jsla at June 9, 2006 10:36 PM

Gold Star for you today!!!

I really enjoyed the nuts in the Conues in NZ with their anti-American stunt wonder what happened for them to send men to Afghansitan??

After all they are working on beno for cows??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE COUNTRY WHO HAS HEROS PITY NOT THE COUNTRY WHO NEED THEM AMEN

PS
Someone one told me when I was in Monti-Carlo it is easy when your country is so small??

Posted by: Catherine at June 9, 2006 10:49 PM

If God had wanted Muslim men to fly, He would have given them wings.

Posted by: SCV at June 9, 2006 11:58 PM

It would be interesting to know how many mos in the US have pilots licenses????

Posted by: Texican at June 10, 2006 12:11 AM

It would be interesting to know how many mos in the US have pilots licenses????

Posted by: Texican at June 10, 2006 12:11 AM

Yes it would and that would be the FAA or better know as the TSA which we all know is run by a Democrate Menatia who is sooo worried about profiling but all the info is there??

Posted by: Catherine at June 10, 2006 12:20 AM

Gee thanks jsla - don't bother visiting NZ and actually learning anything about us and how we live and what people think. Don't bother to finding out how many peace-keeping troops we deploy in the Pacific as we speak.

Forget also this tiny fact: "In October, 2003 61 New Zealand Defence Force personnel were deployed (consistent with United Nations Security Council Resolution 1483) to Iraq as a Light Engineer Group to assist in post-war reconstruction and provision of humanitarian aid."

Do you actually KNOW that this is only a 4-million people country? Do you KNOW what our troops did during WW2? And continued to do as well-respected troops in international conflicts? That during WW1 NZ lost more men per head of the then even smaller population than any other country?

What you put above is pretty offensive to all those brave people. Aboute as offensive as you find criticism of the US perhaps, hm?

Concerns about islamism do not and need not mean buying into nuclear technology in the last part of the world free from it.

Regarding islamism and NZ things are a worry, agreed. I've sent concerns about islamism to some of our politicians and media. When they bother replying at all, it included admonition of the 'cartoons', the assurance that sharia would never be allowing in NZ and the stance that boycotting anti-humanitarian countries such as Saudi Arabia would be too difficult. Could of course be a clever trick to hide the intensive of islam-monitoring that goes on...

Hey, at least we talk/write about it instead of threatening to chop off each others' heads. That's why we're on this forum, right?

Posted by: Lili at June 10, 2006 12:47 AM

Lili -- You make some perfectly valid points. I am mindful that NZ hopefully has deployed troops into various areas not because of any favor to the US, but because she recognizes her own national interests in doing so. Still, I think NZ has been a very coy ally so far in joining the USA. The template I laid out above is completely factual and I stand by my first post, which elicited Mr. Mulholland's cartoonish riposte. Clearly the terrorist in question was lured to NZ for some reason -- Do you think he's a fan of LOTR? Did he simply want to see what Middle Earth looked like, or go to see a Peter Jackson's? Or did he see something to exploit, something 'different' about NZ?

Now I understand emotions ran high across the globe in the leadup to the Iraq war. But it was very difficult for me to view NZ 's actions as anthing but openly hostile during that period. The vitriol from your tiny island was audible even here, and I certainly haven't forgotten it.

Sadly, there is also a template for this behavior. She DID infamously ban US warships. In doing so, NZ contravened a defense treaty with her "allies" the US and Australia. NZ DID recently mothball her Air Force. She DID engage in a very vitriolic leftist smear campaign to try and subvert the US in the leadup to the Iraq war. On and on.

So must I thank you for your various deployments? It was, I admit, sarcastic. The low number made it impossible not to be sarcastic. I'd also say as an American, I can't help but wonder what 2 or 3 thousand brave NZ troops, plus 25-30 thousand French, plus 25-30 thousand Germans, plus 15 thousand Canadians, plus perhaps 15 thousand more troops from various of our "allies" could have accomplished in Iraq. Would war have even been necessary. Does anyone wonder their if your truculence and vitriol somehow helped pursuade Saddam not to back down, not to accede to UN demands? Somehow I think many of our "allies" prefer to wallow in self righteousness -- watch from the sidelines with secret pleasure. 'The Americans are dying. Serves that arrogant country right.'

So, even after Iraqi sovereignty, the deaths and heavy lifting there are still solely a USA and UK burden. Thanks! Ally. Thanks ALOT! If I remember correctly, we sailed to the Coral Sea to help defend your country. If I remember correctly, we set up a defense which prevented Australia and then YOU from falling into Japan's greedy hands in WW2. Do you remember what America did for you? Thanks for standing by us now -- NOT.

Another thought occurs to me regarding this terrorist you repatriated to Saudi Arabia. I surmise the USA may have wanted to get their hands on this villain. We may have even asked. I am also certain that NZ refused, hysterically and piously citing Guantanamo, or Abu Ghraib, or secret renditions, or US torture, or US abandonment of the Geneva Conventions. All manner of slurs and smears and pretexts would have been trotted out, so we may not have asked, or if we did, we probably also had to say "Please don't say anything public -- we know you'll happily pour fuel on the anti-American pyre, so just tell us we can't have him and leave it at that, OK?" Great ally, that.

Let's face it -- we're not completely on the same side in this battle now, are we?

Will this be a wake up call for NZ? What do you think? This will be painted as a US problem, not a Western problem or a global problem with Islam.

Finally... for what it's worth, I briefly visited NZ prior to 9/11. It was delightful and beautiful, and most of the people were perfectly friendly. Sadly, I also patiently endured periodic earfuls about the US foreign policies and our single handed wanton destruction of planet earth. This really made me wonder, since I'd just seen the 12000 mile shroud of smog which envelopes the entirety of southeast Asia, including some brown spots in NZ herself! Nevertheless, I listened to politely and sympathetically trying to do my small part for interantional relations... It was a surprise, and not a surprise, having heard this anti-American swill all over Europe and the UK. You might find it Interesting to learn that I was only in NZ for about a week, and this was a stark difference between my monthlong stay in Australia just prior. I heard NOTHING similar to that anti-American cant while there. Go figure! I also watched some of your TV, and found the acidic BBC style coverage always placed stories about the US in the most unfavorable light possible

SO... Perhaps I know a little more than you think about NZ. Perhaps Americans are watching their supposed allies a lot more closely these days. The world is going to continue to get more dangerous. You can blame it on us if that makes you feel better. Or you can join us in fighting those responsible. Or you can sit comfortably in your lovely island redoubt and watch the world deconstruct.

I'm glad we had this talk. Honestly, I truly generally very much like your posts. Even the last one!

Cheers.

Posted by: jsla at June 10, 2006 2:08 AM

And furthermore, I'M NOT DONE! This last bit is keeping me up past my bedtime -- it won't stop kicking around in my head --

NZ governement and populace has been very openly critical of the US prisoner issues in the WOT. We are excoriated for having these non-conventional prisoners, and for incarcerating them in non-traditional ways. I absolutely refuse to call them POWs for they are the lowest form of human scum -- the deserve no such distinction. They don't deserve the protections of the Geneva Conventions, in my opinion....

Anyway, Lili -- I have to ask you -- where does NZ get off sending this trash to Saudi Arabia, renowned for slicing tongues, chopping off hands, severing heads, and endless other barbarities. Whatever happened to that holier-than-thou daintiness which forbids your nation from extraditing persons to the US because we have the death penalty? Are your paroxysmal pundits gonna crawl up the PM's backside and scream 'bloody murder'? Is this causing a volcanic upheaval? Or are your citizens blissfully unaware of the enormity of the thing?

Perhaps all the facts arent' in, but I think we already know the answer to every question and challenge I have mentioned. There will be little sound. There will be no uproar. Not even pangs of guilt for sending this filth back to the sewer without the benefit to Western Intelligence. We certainly won't get direct unfettered access to him after now. The Saudis have been predictably obdurate about intelligence gathering --

So how do NZ's actions to deport comport with her high-minded hypocrisies towards the US? Of course that's a silly question, because NZ's actions are in perfect accord with her high-minded hypocrisies...

There -- now I can sleep!

Posted by: jsla at June 10, 2006 3:50 AM

"Don't you think that is scary? Young muslim males taking flight lessons? Why do these people have to become pilots? Can't they let the infidels do the flying? Hell, in Saudia Arabia, they don't do anything else themselves. So why should they do the flying? Hmmmm...

No. No. Let's have a new rule at IATA. Nobody named "Mohammad anything" or "anything Mohammad" should be able to take flying lessons."

------------

How do you stop guys like this:
http://siteinstitute.org/multimedia/video/video_1125524998.wmv

Obviously a Briton native, white, and will change name and appearance upon entry to flight school to act as a proper english school boy.

Posted by: Zebo at June 10, 2006 3:56 AM

muslims actually killed this girl and made burgers and kebabs of her ? And Britain's media is ignoring the trial.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/

The story of Charlene Downes is at the middle of the page.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 10, 2006 4:44 AM

JSLA

Having gotten back to the US after a detour through NZ(19 years of being blissfully lost) I can understand Lili's hurt feelings because your words touched some raw nerves even in me. Ouch, Ouch, Ouch!

But I commend you for saying what needs to be said. NZ found itself on the wrong side of the coin when the shit went down and a Labour government in power. But I will concur with Lili that most of the population is behind the US, it's just the PC/socialist/liberalism thingy that clouds their judgement at times. All in all, a sound critique of the Kiwis JSLA. Ouch, Ouch, Ouch!

Posted by: William The Crusader at June 10, 2006 5:42 AM

JSLA, don't get to worked up over the NZ, they still have the Maoris to protect them. Trouble starts when Maoris start 'reverting' to Islam, then the s*#t really hits the fan...

Apart from that, being such a sheep-country, these sheep appeal to Mohmmedan's who are quite accustomed to the taste of this particular animal. I wouldn't go further and say they 'have much in common'- along the lines of the Ayatollah Khomeini, you know what I mean...

So the attraction goes both ways: 'Wide open' country, naive, simplistic New-Zealanders who are equally 'wide open', and eager Moahmmedan infil-traitors who take advantage of what's on offer.

Not exactly a 'win-win' situation, but who would wake them from their slumber?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at June 10, 2006 7:08 AM

arjun sevak.
the charlene downes story is just another proof that you can not trust muslim food handlers. specially muslim food handlers serving the nonmuslim public. this and another story of a muslim putting his freeze dried feces into the foods is just another reminder that if you see muslim working behind food counters plaes go some where else. these people think of us as animals and they treat our food like trash.

Posted by: desidude at June 10, 2006 12:19 PM

Profitsbeard-

Roger that.

Posted by: YankeeInfidel at June 10, 2006 1:46 PM

Our SAS revieved a commendation from George Bush so he sure noticed our contribution to Afganistan,they have done three tours over there.

As for Iraq New Zealand didn,t believe in the fight so we didn,t go our days of following other countries into battle with no questions asked are over we did it in world war one and took 50,000 casulties out of a population of one million for what?, absolutly nothing.

If America and Britain are carrying the load that is your problem you started the fight you carry the load.

New Zealanders are anything but naive we are well travelled people who don,t stay in our tiny Island we go out and see the world and it is funny that most Americans now don,t support George Bush and the choice he made to go into Iraq and how naive were the American people for buying into the sales pitch that was pushed by George Bush.

New Zealand supported the war in Afganistan and when the U.S and NATO bombed Kosovo the public supported that as well because the fight was right but not Iraq because it was a fight that was built on bullshit.

Posted by: stevenz at June 10, 2006 6:49 PM

And when the People's Navy shows up in your harbors and disgorges Chinese marines, it won't be our fight.

The PRC isn't the Ottomans. They won't roll over, they won't quit, you won't beat them, and they won't be impressed with your smug, holier-than-thou attitude.

When your friends can't count on you when they need you, your value diminishes to the point where you're not worth the money, lives, or hassle.

Be careful up on that high horse, kiwi.

It ain't the fall that hurts, it's when you hit the ground after no one bothers to catch you.

Unfortunately, if the People's Republic does decide to make y'all a new province, America probably will help you. That's too bad, but that's what we do, however little you're worth it.

Despite your petulance and condescension, and because of our collective naiveté, which you so venomously deride.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 10, 2006 8:36 PM

Eisenhund -- maybe that's laying it on a little thick? They are partial allies. I would welcome far more participation and cooperation.

I don't think the Kiwis who have taken such umbrage are acknowledging that there's a huge difference between disagreeing with the US, and efforts such as NZ's to repeatedly subvert the US in recent years. NZ's unilateral and foolish defense moves have shown systematic bad judgment, immaturity, and betrayal. Whatever NZ's administration, media, and public leanings may be (all of which appear flagrantly leftist), the simple truth is that such behavior is not that of reliable and stalwart ally. It will be harder and harder to have it both ways from now on I surmise. This world is heating up in more ways than one, and it isn't America's fault despite your attachment to that false construct. Blame us for it all at your peril. The destruction such ideas hold may only now be coming home to roost for yourselves and globally.

Posted by: jsla at June 10, 2006 9:58 PM

-jsla,

I had a big long rant prepared, full of storming metaphor and hyperbole, using your last post as a springboard, but it would might've start a minor prairie fire which I've neither the patience nor interest in fanning.

Suffice it to say, I'll bow to your more reasoned response to the bruised egos. I know who my nation's friends are, and I know on which ones we can count. They make it obvious through their words and deeds rather than by making self-righteous judgments from the peanut gallery.

Too bad, it was positively Wagnerian.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 10, 2006 11:51 PM

... but it might've started a minor prairie fire...

Sometimes you just can't preview these things enough.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 10, 2006 11:54 PM

Jsla,

Just so you know, not of us in NZ think the way you have so eloquently outlined. The author of the blog that Robert links to, for one. The blogsite I write for. A number of other people I know. But, in general, you are most correct.

Posted by: Lucyna at June 11, 2006 1:23 AM

Oops, my previous entry should have said "... not *all* of us think the way ...". I had missed out the "all".

Posted by: Lucyna at June 11, 2006 1:26 AM

I can't really be bothered arguing with all the false points made, but I'll say this:

Invading Iraq, let alone still being there now, wasn't in our interests, and it's not in yours either. The Iraqis got the only advantage, and they're too full of factions and islam to use it properly.

And also: when the nuclear s*** hits the fan, NZ will be one of the few parts of the world that can provide safe food. That's why most of us don't want any nuclear devices in our region: basic safety. The US would be wise to protect us as this safe food basket and encourage us to see you as the logical people to provide with the limited safe food.

Actually, many US citizens already feel that way about NZ food compared to your own. Something to do with our lack of genetic engineering, grass-fed animals and decreased use of pesticides.

Posted by: Lili at June 11, 2006 2:05 AM

americaningermany,
I read about 1/4 of your link, and arrived at your conclusion.

Checkout this link

www.illustratedpig.blogspot.com

Scroll midway of the page. The story of Charlene Downes. muslims raped and killed her, and made burgers and kebabs of her and served to the people. Google it, the story is accurate.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 11, 2006 4:51 AM

Lili, if your nuclear scenario plays out, we won't have any way of protecting ourselves from the hordes coming to get the safe food, given that we've pissed off our friends and turned our army, navy and airforce into "peacekeepers".

We're about to become even safer soon, as there are people who are trying to ban smoking over here, too. Oh, and then there's the mandatory dog microchipping, which is somehow supposed to protect us from dangerous dogs.

I'd get off the high-horse now... really.

Posted by: Lucyna at June 11, 2006 4:55 AM

Eisenhund because we don,t run to America whenever they call and sacrifice our young people for a war that was built on Bullshit,because we dare to have our own foreign policy that you don,t agree with you say we have a holier than thou attitude and that we are up on our high horses, it is you that needs to get off your high horse.

It is your country that needs to get off it high horse thinking you have the right to attack any country that you see fit telling the rest of the world to get fucked at the same time.

You kill people from other countries and don,t even call them people you call them collateral damage and you don,t even count them because you think that American people are so much more valuable than all others.

As for weapons of mass destruction what about the agent Orange you sprayed around Vietnam that is still in the water ways and soil poisening people to this day leaving them with deformities and that wasn,t enough for your country now you are firing depleted Uranium into others peoples countries.

You tell others countries they can,t have nuclear weapons yet you have one of the top two arsonals in the world and not only are you telling people they can,t have nukes but your country are developing new ones.

If the price of having American protection is having to be Americas bitch running off to war for a pack of lies watching our young people die for American foreign policy well you can shove it and if you run to our rescue what are you going to do give us our freedom by poisening our country with depleted Uranium?.

And you talk about the Chinese invading people well your country seems to be the expert at that how many people did you kill in Vietnam ?about 2,000,000 and many Iraqi have died for your bullshit?.

We havn,t betrayed America we just refuse to run along behind you like a dog we finished doing that for anyone a long time ago.

Don,t ever talk to anyone about getting up on there high horses because America is arrogence personified.

Posted by: stevenz at June 11, 2006 9:16 AM

For Pete's sake, give it a rest. I tried to be mature about it in a second posting, but if that's too grown up for you, then piss off. You're too much of a petulant child for me to waste any more time addressing you. There are bigger dogs to deal with without trading spurious immature yaps with an ankle-biter like you. Go sit on your little rock and rot, for all I care.
You won't be missed.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 11:08 AM

stevenz and his ignorant ilk = the portal through which the fascists are conquering the world.

Q: Is he the disease, or a symptom of the disease?

A: He is both.

Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 12:13 PM

His type, unless they present an immediate and present threat, can usually be ignored. There is plenty of time during the consolidation and reorganization phase of operations to deal with them. When the wolves are at your door, you don't worry about the cockroaches in the basement.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 12:25 PM

Or rather unless they present a clear and immediate threat,

(must...pre...view!)

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 12:28 PM

-americaningermany,

The weak tend to lash out at those whom they know won't hit back. Good strategy, if you think about it. How often do you hear the little curs yammer at someone they know will go over and kick their tails up into their throats? Trouble is, patience, like anything else, can wear out. Usually when it's most inconvenient for the comfortably self-assured. Tell you what, though, this may be neither politic nor polite, but when Jihad Joe is removing our snotty friend's head for use as a soccer ball, *shrug*. Just another egg cracked for history's biggest omelette. There have been, and will be, far more victims far more worthy of my sympathy.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 1:03 PM

"His type... can usually be ignored."

I disagree. Anti-Americanism of this stripe is a new form of global hysteria, a new virulent form of mass psychosis. Witch hunts, pogroms, genocides -- these are the community wide outcomes of attitudes like this insane poster. Current events prove that humans are psychologically no different today than they were 5000 years ago, so while our modern notions of ourselves lure us into believing we're better, reality (or Islamic Jihad or the stevenzs) prove we are no better today as a species.

When certain persons begin to feel impotent, when the world around them becomes too much for them to cope, they are prone to lash out hysterically and violently. They go to crazy lengths to deflect their deficiencies onto 'the other', cauterizing their impotence, and project their carzy internal hatreds onto an outside bogeyman.

As lone practitioners of this kind of psychosis, they are not dangerous. But such psychosis can affect entire populations -- after all, we're really talking about Islamic Jihad here!

While I don't think the stevenz are apt in the main to strap on bombs and such, his demonic projections onto America are little different from the "Great Satan" constructs of the psychos in Iran and across the Muslim world. Who else but an utterly evil Nation would "poison" nations with uranium? Who else but an utterly evil Nation would slaughter millions? The details and truth don't get in the way of the witch hunters when they're surrendering to their disease. They run with it.

And when the governments begin to reflect this kind of psychosis, when the media in those nations becomes the megaphone for the witch hunters -- it would be another kind of insanity and folly to ignore the possible consequences.

The PM of NZ is a radical who clearly believes many of the same things the nutjob stevenz believes. When the leadership connects with the dog in the gutter and thinks the same as he -- the most horrific things can begin to happen. Hyperbole?

Just look at Germany and Japan in the 1930s. France after the "revolution".

Today we have Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan - countries that are very close to the edge of all out Nazi-like insanity.

Ominously in the West we have entire swaths of governments and polities embracing many of the constructs which those proto-Nazi states also embrace. The slanders and smears the nutjob stevenz is spreading above are eerily similar to the sewage the Muslim leadership spreads to foment Islam's citizenry. Are the stevenz in control yet? No. But I their psychosis is on the ascendant in the West, and the world has never been in such peril.

Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 1:06 PM

-jsla,

See roundabouts the middle of my last post. I was going to say something similar to what you mentioned about Germany and Japan in the 1930's, about how surprisingly fast a nation's character can change. Benevolence can morph into vindictiveness almost overnight.

Big dogs have big jaws, and often a lot of patience.

But you don't want to be the guy holding the stick when he tires of being poked.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 1:21 PM

That isn't to say I have given up any hope. Note the perfectly sane NZers posting above. I am humbled at their willingness to acknowledge the truth. We in America are only slightly ahead of them in pushing back the out of control soft fascisms of our post-enlightenment pseudo-liberal government. The battle is beginning to rage in Washington over the failed bottomless social engineering projects of 4 decades. Even after 9/11, the siren songs of this false liberalism is hard to kill. Both the Left and the Right are guilty. But the lights are going off in Canada and even in France and Germany as their populations have corrected the perilous drift towards government overreach. The PEOPLE rejected the EU nightmare. The "World Court" is gradually being recognized as a fiasco, as are the "UN" etc.

There ARE stalwarts everywhere in the West. I count them among my friends.

We have so much to do in the West to salvage our heritage from the stevenz and the Ahmadinijads. Both of those types would see us annihilated. They are dangerously sleepwalking with their lies. But they aren't as dangerous as people who are awake and can see them for what they are.

Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 1:34 PM

Adverb alert!!! Freudian slip alert!!!

"the lights are going off"

I meant to convey "going off" as in fireworks "going off" er, on --

Yikes. I said the exact opposite of what was inteded. Perhaps this inadvertantly conveys how worried I am that it may be too late in some Western regions already. With Muslim populations upwards of 7% in Germany and France, and their notoriously non-aligned decades long devotion to socialistic mind control projects, their ceaseless championing of nightmare bodies like the EU and UN, I don't know...

Europe looks to be the epicenter of shockwaves which will once again shake the earth to its foundations.

Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 1:44 PM

Eisenhund you ask when America told us we have to be your bitch to get protection, well when they cut off all military training with us when we refused to follow there doctrine of Nuclear power and weapons and when we made it plain that we weren,t going to follow America when ever they called.

Who is poisening with depleted Uranium?, you are you have fired it in Iraq,Bosnia,Kosovo and Afganistan and it has been proven that it is dangerous to peoples health in Basra Cancer rates went through the roof after the first gulf war and a British soldier has been found to have been poisened with it he was the first case to be admitted and there have been scores of people poisened in the Balkens with it,the shit stays in the ground for years and you can inhale it into your lungs but your country will never admit to it just they like wouldn,t admit to the agent Orange in Vietnam because they know they will be liable and have to pay billions in compensation.

And as for having American protection what a joke,you said yourself if the Chinese come to New Zealand they wouldn,t quit so what good is it going to be having American protection the Chinese could take 50,000 dead and not bat an eye lid about it can America say the same no they can,t the American public would start complaining about casulties and America would cut and run just like they did in Vietnam leaving us to our fate.

America is not to blame for everything in the world and the muzzies are a threat but when you and all the other arseholes on this site start shitting on my country because we don,t run along behind America doing what ever you want i,m not going sit back and take that shit because there is plenty to find fault with about America and your foreign policy.

You have meddled in so many countries business and bombed so many countries and you don,t even call the people you kill humans you call them collateral damage and you don,t even count them but when you get attacked you are so suprised.

Eisenhund i thought your reply to my post was so lame all you can come up with is to call me immature and a child but it is you that has a brain the size of a peanut and so do all the other fuckwits on this site,you think you can use your military machine to bomb other countries as you do but not get bombed back how ignorant are you.

Posted by: stevenz at June 11, 2006 5:15 PM

Vertical slits for eyes? I suspect so. They speculate that syphillus was originally contracted through the ancient practice of beastiality with sheep and goats.

Posted by: jsla at June 11, 2006 5:55 PM

Head the size of a basketball with a brain the size of a peanut?i suspect so.

Posted by: stevenz at June 11, 2006 8:57 PM

-stevenz,

Look at the bottom of the post that you're responding to, you brainless moron.
I didn't write it.
How someone as stupid as you can figure out how to even turn on his computer is beyond me.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 12, 2006 12:51 AM

JSLA

I could not let your post go past without comment.

1. NZ is and always will be an ally of the US, far too much has passed between both countries for us not to be.

2. Allies will differ on thier world views, NZ chose not to take part in an unsanctioned (U.N) invasion of a sovereign country, as is our right, and if justification was Iraq supported terrorism I have yet to see proff of that.

3. We may not have taken part in the invasion but we support post "war" activities on a scale that is mis-representative of the size of our Defence Forces (by way of comparison 1 US Aircraft carrier is crewed by 5000 sailors, slightly more than our ENTIRE ARMY.) 50 Special Forces soldiers may not sound like alot but when drawn from a total complement of 150 it is a huge commitment.

4. You may not agree with our PM's statements but do not interpret her comments as NZ hostility to the US, again a case of differing views from respective "leaders".

5. Finally, why was Rayed deported to Saudi Arabia? Simple, he had a Saudi passport.

Posted by: Neps at June 12, 2006 3:03 AM

Eisenhund i stand corrected it wasn,t your post and that is a simple mistake nothing to do with intellect you fucking moronic piece of shit i was just getting so use to replying to all your arrogent posts about my country.

You want to talk about intellect well how smart are you when you think you can go around invading other countries because you feel like it killing thousands of people then you feel so suprised when your people are killed and so much of the world turns against you.

Remember when Americans die it is a tragedy when americans kill other people they are collateral damage,it,s time your country took a long hard look at it,s self because you just don,t want to face up to what you have done to people around the world.

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 6:31 AM

And while we are hear i do view the Muslim as the greatest threat and i have no doubt we will be fighting them on our own streets in the end fighting them on there ground is a waste of time we are never going to change them and there ways Afganistan showed that when they were going to kill someone for walking away from Islam,we arew wasting people and money going into there countries.

New Zealand doesn,t get the credit it deserves for picking up the trash and throwing him out before he could complete his training.

As for Afganistan we have sent 50 SAS not standard soldiers to Afganistan on three tours and they got a comendation from George Bush and we have also sent reconstruction troops which is a significant part of the process of trying to build Afganistan into a country that is worth something spending over $100,000,000 dollers in the process which is not bad for a country of 4,000,000 people even though i think it is a waste of time.

As i stated i dispise Islam which is why i joined this site but i have pride in my country and when i see my country being spoken of with such distain i will defend my country.

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 6:43 AM

Eisenhund i don,t think you are a moronic piece of shit it,s just hot headed bullshit talk it happens on forums we do have the same concerns about muzzies they are a bigger threat than the Nazi because they are world wide and our leaders are handing our lands to them through immigration it is an ever greater threat than nukes because it is the threat from within.

People won,t awaken until the numbers increase and they get into our parliments in numbers thats when the shit will start because they will start pushing Islam.

In New Zealand the Maori connection is a danger,the muzzies could tap into poor disenchanted young maori and attempt to turn them and the same can be said about America with your growing Hispanic population and African American populations it,s not something that is mentioned in the media.

The west shouldn,t have forces in the middle east we should be spending our money developing alternatives to oil so we can break free of the muslim oil and as we cut down on oil we cut down our funding of Al Qaeda and the money could also be spent securing borders.

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 7:05 AM

-stevenz,

You need some serious psychological help.
Or maybe just a diaper change and a nap.

In any case, I'm done responding to a spiteful, unreasonable little piece of shit like you. I sincerely hope that you don't represent the average New Zealander. If so, your country is doomed.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 12, 2006 7:09 AM

Damn

Posted my last message before I saw your last one.
You are right, though. Tempers flare.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 12, 2006 7:11 AM

Thanks Neps.

1. NZ is and always will be an ally of the US, far too much has passed between both countries for us not to be.

I agree in part. But if NZ and NZers are prepared to unilaterally violate the ANZUS treaty as happend, then she must be prepared to also accept the repercussions. One of those surely must include listening to "allies" who are outraged at that kind of behavior. Another would be accepting the inferences US and Australian citizens would inevitably draw after observing a supposed stalwart ally behaving in this manner. Claims of stalwartness subsequently have less credibility. ANZUS rankled. Subsequent behavior on the part of NZ's successive governments simply continues to reinforce that burr between our countries. Again, I cite the absolutely outrageous attempts to subvert the US in the leadup to the Iraq war. It wasn't just a matter of disagreeing. Your politicians and press had a field day, indulging in amplifying every negative stereotype of my country. I will never forget the perfidy of NZ, France, and Germany. PMs, MPs, and NZ media aside, while marginal personalities like "stevenz" don't represent the majority of your polity, he is hardly alone in his gross and cancerous attitudes towards the US, is he? I was amused to see your PM defending herself in your press yesterday for deporting that al Qaida scum to Saudi Arabia, but I must also observe that the outrage among NZers for their own government's actions are hardly as inflamed as they would be had the US asked to receive this pond scum from you. Why would you be far more upset deporting such a person to the US over Saudi Arabia? Clearly your country isn't the ally it should be. Perhaps you disagree with my allegation here? If you do, I'd be curious to see your response.

2. Allies will differ on thier world views, NZ chose not to take part in an unsanctioned (U.N) invasion of a sovereign country, as is our right, and if justification was Iraq supported terrorism I have yet to see proff of that.

Fine. Don't subvert us then when you disagree with us. Simply disagree. Don't indulge in rank anti-Americanism as NZ did and continue to do regarding the Iraq war and aftermath. This is still being exploited by your politicians and media to depict the US in the worst possible light. Again -- the actions of an ally? I'm sad to say it, but I think not.

3. We may not have taken part in the invasion but we support post "war" activities on a scale that is mis-representative of the size of our Defence Forces (by way of comparison 1 US Aircraft carrier is crewed by 5000 sailors, slightly more than our ENTIRE ARMY.) 50 Special Forces soldiers may not sound like alot but when drawn from a total complement of 150 it is a huge commitment.

The fact that NZ appears to have a grossly undermanned defense force is not the fault of the US. In fact, one may infer from the circumstances that NZ has decided to enjoy the benefits of the fact that the US doesn't skimp on defense of the entire Western World without footing the bill in any meaningful way for that defense. The thought that your government and media continue to poke sharp sticks in the collective US eye is bound to have repercussions. My attitudes are shared by millions of Americans, of that I am certain.

4. You may not agree with our PM's statements but do not interpret her comments as NZ hostility to the US, again a case of differing views from respective "leaders".

Sadly, Ms. Clark's Al Gore/Iraq War comments, despite her subsequent apologies, only reinforce the idea that our alliance is fraying. Her comments were eerily similar to Chretien's aide's in Canada (forget name -- starts with D - like Dagros or something), Schroeder's in Germany, Devillepain and Chirac in France. Your four contries were downright vitriolic in your denunciations of the US. All four nations appear extremely comfortable dragging domestic US politics into their sphere to foment anger and thereby bolster support in your respective countries. Americans must wonder what kinds of allies behave thus? I'm glad to say the Chirac, Schroeder, and Chretien have suffered subsequently. Chretien and Schroeder have been trounced and replaced with less far left radicals. Chirac continues. Clark continues. New Zealand -- the France of the Pacific? God -- I hope not.

5. Finally, why was Rayed deported to Saudi Arabia? Simple, he had a Saudi passport.

That's an easy answer to my prickly challenge. BTW -- I think he was a native of Yemen. My point is a good one -- where does NZ get off sending this character back to a death penalty country famous for torture and human rights violations? The next time you see your hypocritical media criticizing the US for Guantanamo, or bludgeoning the US as a rogue nation for having the death penalty, I beg you: remember NZ's hypocrisies in this regard. Do you disagree that, had we asked, NZ would have piously and disdainfully refused to hand him over? You can't dismiss this with "Simple". "Simple" doesn't even come close.

Posted by: jsla at June 12, 2006 11:54 AM

Eisenhund don,t worry about the last post we are on the forum because we see the same threat.

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 4:26 PM

So NOT vertical slits for eyes! Welcome!

Posted by: jsla at June 12, 2006 4:28 PM

Our defence force of two full time battalions is right for the size of our population.

We have two battalions with a population of 4000,000 people.

I saw an article about the British armed forces and they stated they had 40 battalions with a population for there country of 80,000,000 so the size of our military is about right.

10 Billion is being spent over the next ten years to buying new equipment for our army so things are being done.

The airforce well Labour can,t take the blame for that by themselves because in the last election National who jumped up and down about getting rid of the strike wing wouldn,t say with certainty that they would reactivate it so that is something that is spread right across New Zealand politics not just labour.

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 4:35 PM

Thanks Jsla

Posted by: stevenz at June 12, 2006 4:38 PM