I don't know the truth behind this incident, but here is a link to Atlas Shrugs which raises some questions over whether the event may have been staged.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/06/aldurah_jenin_m.html

But regardless of what emerges from the investigation, there is still one overall reality: Israel does not target civilians, while the Palestinians do.

Posted by: Howard, Fine & Howard at June 10, 2006 8:49 AM

which holds political power in the Palestinian territories -- does not recognize the state of Israel.............That line is from CNN.....Funny in the whole story Islam was not named.....Hamas does not recognize israel why?....Is it because Israel did something to hamas or any other of the idiots running around in stupid looking mask acting like looney children with guns?...no its Islam....Muslim lands must muslim.....but that will never be told on CNN.....Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.” ......Yes the book of Love....Why do Muslims hate Jews....1948 you say.....because the big bad Jews took land they didnt own?.....well forget that lie for sec....lets look at the Dirty book of lies....Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”
Ishaq:240 “The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people.”
ISLAM IS NOT PEACE OR LOVE...ISLAM IS HATE AND WAR...FOR THOSE THAT BELIEVE THE BIBLE ITS A WAR FOR THE PROMISE GOD GAVE ISRAEL.WAS IT GIVEN TO THE SEED OF ISHMAEL OR ISAAC?..

Posted by: storagemanager at June 10, 2006 9:24 AM

Why I Left Islam
by Ali Sina

Arabic Translation
French
German

I am often asked, Why I left Islam? As absurd as it may be, some Muslims cannot even allow themselves to think that leaving Islam is an option, or even possible. They rather think that those who leave Islam are paid Jewish agents than accept the fact that people have freedom to think and some may even think that Islam is not for them. The following are my reasons:

Until few years ago I used to think that my faith in Islam was not based on blind imitation but rather was the result of years of investigation and research. The fact that I had read a lot of books on Islam, written by people whose thoughts I approved of and delving into philosophies that were within my comfort zone, emphasized my conviction that I had found the truth. All my biased research confirmed my faith. Just like other
Muslims I used to believe that to learn about anything one has to go to the source. Of course the source of Islam is the Quran and the books written by Muslim scholars. Therefore, I felt no need to look elsewhere in order to find the truth, as I was
convinced that I have already found it. As Muslims say "Talabe ilm ba'd az wossule ma'loom mazmoom". The search of knowledge after gaining it is unnecessary.

Now I realize this was a mistake. What if we want to learn the truth about one of these dangerous cults? Is it enough to depend only on what the cult leader and his deluded followers say? Wouldn't it be prudent to widen our research and find out what other people have to say about them? Going to the source makes sense only in scientific matters, because scientists are not "believers". They do not say something because they have blind faith. Scientists make a critical analysis of the evidence. It is very much different from religious approach that is based entirely on faith and belief.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AliSina/why_I_left_Islam.htm

Posted by: storagemanager at June 10, 2006 9:59 AM

“Palestinian people have apparently voted for change, but we believe their aspirations for peace and a peaceful life remain unchanged,” said Rice.

On September 20, 2001, President Bush rightly and properly said: "Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

Yet, Mr. Bush meets and prays with Muslim terrorists, he lauds Palestinian Authority's Muslim arch-terrorist Mahmoud Abbas as a man of peace, he proposes negotiating with Iran -- a terrorist harboring and sponsoring nation --- he hosts Saudi Wahhabi terrorist-enablers at his Crawford, Texas ranch and he is set upon establishing a Palestinian Muslim terrorist state to the west, with the Islamic Republic of Iran to the east. Whose side is President Bush on?

Posted by: monk at June 10, 2006 10:27 AM

Howard, Fine & Howard said:

I don't know the truth behind this incident, but here is a link to Atlas Shrugs which raises some questions over whether the event may have been staged.

Just go to
http://www.seconddraft.org/cur_invest.php
read about their analysis and see the video of the Al Dura affair
http://www.seconddraft.org/movies/aldurah.divx

There are so many lies and distortions that one cannot take anything about that part of the world at face value.

Posted by: Cynic at June 10, 2006 10:31 AM

storagemanager

It seems that all those adjectives used to describe Jews can aptly applied to their very detractors.

Only irrational and stupid hatred can hide from those eyes the amazing contributions of those "descendents of apes and pigs" in the fields of science, agriculture, literature and music.
Then again in the "land of taqiya" facts and context play no part.

Posted by: Cynic at June 10, 2006 10:52 AM

nearly all of them appeared to land inside Gaza.
if this statement was not so serious, its almost laughable at the way Hammas tries to come off as serious terrorist, when their aim and technology are so poor. you see they are use to killing civilians,ambush, does not take much to do this, a coward of a society, so called men hiding under women's skirts and children. pathetic people these people need to be put on the next boat and sent back to the land of saud.

Posted by: Lulu at June 10, 2006 11:05 AM

A little OT, but fun...
http://hotair.com/archives/vent/2006/06/09/zarqawis-end/

Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 10, 2006 12:37 PM

"You will never see Hamas expressing such regret. They target "uninvolved persons.""

Before Hamas targets uninvolved persons, they re-define them as involved.

Posted by: Television at June 10, 2006 12:41 PM

Hamas' "military wing" wants to resume attacks? Who could ask for anything more? These guys are congenital idiots.

Developments bode well for the upcoming referendum: Palestinians, if they have an ounce of brains, will realize the error of thinking Hamas could bring anything other than more violence to the table.

Is one ever entitled to be hopeful that an end-game might be within sight in the Palestinian Terrortories? Can Fatah defeat these demons and move towards an actual peace with Israel?

D. Ox
http://thomistic.blogspot.com

Posted by: Dumb Ox at June 10, 2006 12:50 PM

This appears to be the same outright false propoganda as the Haditha story. What the heck - if the propaganda and lies works once, it will work twice and if it works against the US it will work against Israel too.

Hamas admits firing Kassam at Israel - including the ones that hit the school in Sderot last week

Palestinian bomb, dud may be behind Gaza incident

All of which reminds me of an ancient story I used to tell my children:

Once upon a time in a small village there was a youth who was charged with taking the sheep up the mountain to graze and to call out for help should wolves attack the flock. After some days, the youth became bored, so he went to the edge of the cliff, leaned over and called in his loudest voice "Wolf! Wolf!" All of the villagers dropped what they were doing and ran as fast as they could to help the boy protect the sheep, but instead of wolves, they found the boy rolling on the ground in laughter at the amusing spectacle they had made running up the mountain. The elders spoke to him sternly.

Some time passed. The youth remained bored and lonely. So one day he again went to the edge of the cliff and called out as loudly as he could "Wolf! Wolf!" Again everyone in the village dropped what they were doing and ran as fast as they could to help the youth beat off the wolves, only to find him rolling on the ground laughing. This time the elders beat him and warned him sternly that he must not call for help when he didn't need it.

Again and again the youth played his trick. Nothing anyone said or did could make him stop.

More time passed. And then one day the youth, lazing about while the flock grazed, looked up and noticed a pack of wolves at the edge of the woods. The boy arose and ran to the edge of the cliff, where he yelled "Wolf! Wolf!" - but nothing happened. The men plowing in the fields kept plowing, the baker kept baking. Nobody even glanced in his direction. By this time the wolves had grabbed the smallest lamb and were attacking another. Again the boy yelled "Wolf! Wolf!" - and still nothing happened. The youth tried to beat off the pack of wolves, but there were too many of them, shouting and screaming for help from below that never came, he watched in horror as the wolves consumed the entire flock.

Dragging his feet, tired and bloody, the youth returned to the village. "Why didn't you come to help me?" he screamed at the villagers. "You've played this trick so many times, no one believes you. What have you done with our sheep?" was the reply.

Moral: You can fool most of the people most of the time and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can never fool all of the people all of the time. Poor Richard

Posted by: gallopinggranny at June 10, 2006 12:56 PM

No One Allowed to Ignore Palestinians' Rights

THERAN (Fars News Agency)- Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar stressed here on Saturday that no one is allowed to ignore the rights of the Palestinian nation.
( I must have gone to sleep..cause I never heard of the Palestinian nation!).....Slamming at the US reluctance to react to the Zionist Regime's every day crimes, he reminded that during his first round of talks with Mottaki, the two sides have issued a statement to condemn the crimes of the so-called Israeli entity. ...
Isaiah 60:14:

14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

Concerning Iran's current affairs at the international scene, he stressed, "We believe that Iran will eventually gain victory in its confrontation with those states who intend to eradicate the Islamic Republic's might and power." ..( Maybe the Madman of Hamas and the Madman of Iran are throwing paper wishes down the well of the ISLAMIC DEMON.) ..In addition to his meeting with Mottaki, Palestinian Foreign Minister is scheduled to attend meetings with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Speaker of the Islamic Consultative Assembly Gholam Ali Haddad Adel, State Expediency Council Chairman Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and Advisor to the Supreme Leader in International Affairs Ali Akbar Velayati during his two-day visit to Iran to discuss bilateral relations, and exchange views about regional and international issues.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8503200526

Posted by: storagemanager at June 10, 2006 1:08 PM

Israel oh Israel...I have never seen you...but I am drawn to you..as all are who love the GOD OF ISRAEL...The land is the land of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob....But never was the land of Ishmael......and NEVER will be the land of Ishmael.....Palestine was a name the Romans gave GODS land.....But it was ISRAEL AND WILL ALWAYS REMAIN ISRAEL!

Posted by: storagemanager at June 10, 2006 1:46 PM

I don't quite get it. Israel accidentally kills some innocent Palestinians in the course of retaliating to Palestinian rocket attacks against Irael. Hamas retaliates by making some more rocket attacks. So what is the difference between the previous situation, with Palestinians firing rockets at Israel during the, er, cease-fire, and now ending the cease-fire and, um, firing more rockets at Israel? Am I missing something? What does this "cease-fire" business mean, anyway?

Posted by: Karl Pov at June 10, 2006 1:48 PM

and DICK Morris thinks Token is a viable candidate in 2008!

Posted by: Dumbo at June 10, 2006 2:26 PM

Israel needs to respond with 10 daisy cutters for every Qassam fired. There are no innocents in the West Bank or Gaza!

Posted by: Dumbo at June 10, 2006 2:30 PM

This is'nt really new. Rockets have been raining down indescriminatly on Israel every day from Gaza since disengagment which stopped Israel from patrolling the Gaza-Egypt border. Fighters, arms, rockets and explosives have been flowing in from thier muslim brothers in Egypt since then.

Anyway Isreal is pretty much a gonner with thier pacifist ways. The only historical proven military solution to these kinds of non stop guerilla warfare is genocide or relocation with a huge DMZ non-mans land huge border between the two parties.

Mao Tse Tsung was so right when he said something along the lines "the guerilla is fish and the civilian population is the water, take away the water and..."

Posted by: Zebo at June 10, 2006 2:51 PM

Don't our Iranian backed pals in Lebanon regularlyt fire 127mm Katushkas and 130mm artillery shells into northern Israel?

Posted by: Dumbo at June 10, 2006 3:08 PM

“Palestinian people have apparently voted for change, but we believe their aspirations for peace and a peaceful life remain unchanged,” said Rice.

-------

With Friends like RICE who needs enemies? Peaceful life..bwahahahah read the Koran, that should be enough. Yeah it will be peaceful when the Jews are erradicated, then they'll just start fighting each other.

She refuses to see 1400 years of attacks against Jews by Muslims. Refuses to see since Isreals existance non-stop war waged against them supported by all islamic states men/materials/money. And she refuses to recognise islam's warriors killing infidels in almost every country currently. She refuses to recognize statements by "palestinians" and all thier muslim brothers about Jews "being wiped off the map".. Arr

Posted by: Zebo at June 10, 2006 3:21 PM

Yes Dumbo...Israel is besiged on all sides with random rockets raining down, suicide troops rolling in, snipers poping off shots at settles etc.. Your plan of decisive retaliation is probably the only way to quell those attacks.

Posted by: Zebo at June 10, 2006 3:29 PM

I hate to bring up the "g-word", but Zebo's reference seems appropriate. I honestly cannot think of any populations in history that have gone so far out of their way to make a case for their own eradication than those of the Gazan, Judean, and Samarian Arabs. Even a rabid dog isn't inherently suicidal or consciously malevolent. These people combine the worst qualities of a sociopathic fascist state and a poor beast with a viral infection eating away at its neurons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hamas runs the PalArab government?

Sooooo...Hamas "militants" would represent the government, no?

If the latter two statements are true, wouldn't this attack, as well as the attack that motivated the Israeli response to which this latest Arab attack was responding, be an act of war?

Huh. What was I thinking. Of course, all war is wrong. But we'll only call it war if it's action on the Infidel side. Arabs and mohammedans, they're responding to oppression. Don't be like those evil Amrikans. Just because someone wants to destroy you utterly, that doesn't give you the right to hit them first or in any way prevent the attack. Just as the US should have waited to be attacked with a chemical or nuclear weapon supplied to terro...uh, I mean, "militants", and lost a few million of its citizens before eating Saddam's lunch, so too must Israel wait until it's destroyed before fighting back.

Right. I get it now.

Sorry Israel, tough break. Ya gotta sit and take it. The "international community" and koran say so.

Besides, all those mohammedans yelling "Death to Israel", they don't really mean it.

And they're just a small minority of extremists.

No matter how many there are.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 10, 2006 4:32 PM

Saw CNN report [Fionnula Sweeney] on the Gaza incident at 10 pm Israel time 6-10-06. She mentioned the death of 7 civilians [were that many deaths independently verified?]. But she did not mention the rockets shot from Gaza across the 1949 armistice line at Israeli civilian settlements which has been constant for several years now [but worse since the so-called "disengagement"]. Maybe Fionnula would have wanted to mention the Arab rockets shot at Israel, but her editors nixed it. Of course, I don't know who decided not to report the Arab rockets. Anyhow, that area of Gaza has been the scene of many rocket shootings against Israel and Israel has been shooting artillery at that area for a few months to deter rocket shooting. So just how anyone would have decided to go there for a picnic is beyond me. It was a very dangerous area, even by Gaza standards. Who decided to go there for a picnic?

Secondly, in response to Mahmud al-Zahar's trip to Teheran to meet the mullahs and their boy ahmadinajad. I just saw a documentary on Abu Musab al-Zarqawi on Arte, the French-German "culture" channel. Zarqawi was quoted as saying that Shi`ism is not truly part of Islam. He said it been created long ago by the enemies of Islam [I don't know if he called these enemies Jews or not]. The purpose of creating the Shi`a was to divide Islam and confuse Muslims, and the like. This was used to justify his bombings of Shi`ites in Iraq. Yet al-Zahar is a Sunni who goes hat in hand to the Iranian Shi`ites. Funny.

Posted by: Eliyahu at June 10, 2006 5:37 PM

The third CALIPHATE calls for real solutions, especially so with nukes in production by these nuts. In the Hadiths which are considered by many Islamic scholars to be the most accurate of Mo's spoken words, sentence after sentence is spewed hatered. Thier actions as you say are virally sociopathic, basically forever. This murder cult is taking over once great civilizations in the west and is growing at an exponential rate as other faiths are going secular (cept mormans). I don't understand why people and the press is so ignorant of the impending doom. Half the nation wants the muslim UN to handle things and calls Bush a fascist when he's trying to save our ass. Now, as democracy dictates, he's crawling into a shell on Iran due to political forces.

Really democracy may be the weakness of western civ. Too many ignorant people who thinks "can't we all just get along" or dont' want to fight are voting.. Back with Kings, he a vested genological intrest in seeing his country remaining top dog for his hiers and listened to wise advisors, not the surfs. Western Europe and israel is faling apart because of democracy too.

Posted by: Zebo at June 10, 2006 5:44 PM

News Alert From the Oh For Crying Out Loud Department!

Iraqi claims U.S. GIs beat wounded man - by whom they mean Zarqawi!

Story line follows both Haditha and the Gaza Beach Picnic pattern!

Hogwash. And to my mind, if our GI's did indeed stomp the SOB to death, I hope they landed one for me! They deserve Medals of Honor.

Posted by: gallopinggranny at June 10, 2006 6:36 PM

There was also a line in the CNN report about Zarqawi's autopsy:

The personnel are familiar with background and cultural concerns for conducting the autopsy

Sure wouldn't want to disrespect Zarqawi's cultural concerns, now would we? Where is General Pershing when we need him? The world has gone nuts, worrying about hurting the feelings of men like Zarqawi.

Posted by: special_guest at June 10, 2006 7:59 PM

"The personnel are familiar with background and cultural concerns for conducting the autopsy..."
-- from a posting above

Does this mean that the American military cannot perform autopsies on those whom it is accused of killing? What if there is a long-established pattern of Arab Muslims killing other Arab Muslims and blaming Infidels -- for example, the well-known Muhammad al-Dura business? Should not the American military be allowed to exhume and examine with forensic specialists the bodies of those described as civilians whom the Marines are accused of killing in cold blood at Haditha? Is it at least conceivable that the killing was carried out by Muslims, for all sorts of reasons, and the Marines then accused, and isn't the only way to find out would be through autopsies? Are Marines to be condemned because the American military, which rescued Iraq from Saddam Hussein, and American taxpayers, now approaching a certain half-trillion already committed to this quixotic (idiotic) effort of creating Iraq the Midel, cannot demand of the Iraqis that in this case, "cultural" concerns about autopsies will simply have to be waived -- the stakes are too high.

Posted by: Hugh at June 10, 2006 10:39 PM

I've been waiting for the time to posit that theory myself. Its amazing to think (not really) that some people are readily willing to believe the worst about the US military re Haditha, when a far more likely scenario should be so obvious.

Killing civilians is more in line with the SOP of:

a) American military personnel

b) Terrorists who've been doing this day in and day out for years

The jihadi vermin know what our media is like. They see the leftists (if you're a leftist, save it. I'm not interested in a childish pissing contest over trivialities) and demonstrators on the news not only in America, but all over the world. They know that the aforementioned are willing to believe anything that makes United States and other Coalition soldiers look bad. Is it such a leap to consider that the sociopathic koranians did this to get the opposition to the administration slavering like Pavlov's dogs to the dinner bell's chime? It's not like they don't have American weapons. Watch the video of Zarcoward the Corpulent poking at his map with his cronies like he's Rommel (no offense, Desert Fox). That's an M4 leaning against the wall behind him. Not to mention the M249 featured in "Iraq's Funniest Home Videos".

Oh no, mohammedans would never lower themselves to that kind of subterfuge. It's not like Mad Mo told them they may deceive or anything. Let's just take the allah-slaves' word for it. They never lie.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 12:30 AM

I have written in the past that I suspected the IDF would begin using radar guided counter battery artillery fire agianst the Palestinians once the Israelis withdrew from Gaza. Though the news reports such as those of this incident do not explicitly confirm it, there is reason to believe that it is true.

Counter battery fire works like this: projectiles launched from enemy positions are tracked by radar in a way that pinpoints the position of the launch site. The radar data is used for fire control of artillery systems that are able in many cases, to respond to the launch even before the attacking projectiles reach their targets. As the general population in Gaza begins to learn that every launch against Israel will be followed by return fire on the launch site, the civilians will begin to pressure the militants to launch only from areas where the inevitable return fire will not cause collateral damage (civilian casualties). This causes the militants to operate from isolated vacant lots and exposed areas like the beaches where IDF surveillance can detect them and take them out with artillery or airborne platforms in many cases before they can launch against Israel.

The IDF tactics seem to be working and under article 51 of the UN Charter, Israel is free to continue responding in this manner in full compliance with international law. Those who are launching the attacks on Israel are fully culpable for any civilian casualties in Gaza that result from the return fire of the IDF.

What would be the consensus of world opinion if these attacks were being launched across any other borders such as European or American borders? The Palestinians in Gaza are engaging in offensive acts of war. They are no longer in a struggle to end Israeli occupation. If the Palestinians want to achieve true self determination as an internationally recognized nation state but they cannot behave as a responsible member of the international community then they will suffer the consequences, including utter annihilation as a state if necessary. Thems the rules that apply now.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at June 11, 2006 1:03 AM

Hugh's mention of the Mohammad al-Dura affair is right on target. I watched the video from the Gaza beach, and a few things seemed odd to me. The girl who screams and cries and throws herself down in sorrow, she starts the video way off to the side; you can almost hear the cameraman say "and...Action!" as she starts running towards what we are told is her dead father. Why did she only start running when the cameraman arrived? Secondly, I see alot of people running around in a commotion, and the BBC announcer tells us how the people were picnicking before they were killed, but I don't see any bodies, and I don't see any signs of a picnick. Here's a what-if: what if the girls' father and 6 other guys (extremists?) were firing Qassam missiles from an area near the beach; the IDF responded as Hulegu Khan describes above, killing the men; the cameraman arrives; the bodies are moved to the beach; grieving family members are then photographed running to the bodies of the dearly departed. Sure it's speculation, but in the absence of evidence, the BBC report looks just as speculative.

Perhaps just like that other famously staged "Palestinian" video, the father later accidentally rolled out of his casket during the funeral procession, then got up, ran and jumped back in to continue.

Posted by: special_guest at June 11, 2006 2:34 AM

Eisenhund said

They see the leftists (if you're a leftist, save it. I'm not interested in a childish pissing contest over trivialities)

Ahh, I see, so you set the rules. You insult "leftists", and then we're supposed to just shut up and take it. You take a crap on us, and then if we respond, it is "a childish pissing contest".

The media is very bad at reporting on the jihad. The media is not all leftists. Is Rush Limbaugh leftist (I'm waiting for that claim next)? He's as much an Islamic apologist as any of the reporters out there. Same goes for Bill O'Reilly and the rest.

You're tired of hearing someone disagree that the left is the cause of the jihad? Tough. I'm tired of saying it. Simple solution: stop wasting our time making the claim.

Posted by: special_guest at June 11, 2006 2:56 AM

Zebo, you reject democracy and advocate monarchy, claiming that kings would have a vested interest in not allowing Muslim depredations against their own peoples. How then do you explain charles' -- prince of Wales-- affinity for Islam and Islamic causes [I could mention a few, others here could supply more]?? How do you explain that 300 years ago when the British kings had much more power there than now, that they did little to protect their subjects from Muslim pirate raids [by the Sally Rovers, etc.--see the recent book on the captive Giles Milton]?? How do you explain that certain members of the British nobility or peerage are pro-Islamic? Such as the duke of Norfolk, members of the Grosvenor family, etc?? In France, giscard d'estaing who has an old and musty pedigree, was responsible for very suddenly raising the number of Muslims in France to a high proportion in a short time [late 1970s]?? This is not to ignore the corrupt democracies that we know today.

Posted by: Eliyahu at June 11, 2006 5:27 AM

update, 6-11-2006, 12:30 pm Israeli time.
An Israeli was severely wounded in Sderot, a town in the northern Negev, close to the 1949 armistice line with the Gaza Strip. The Hamas has been furiously rocketing Jewish-inhabited areas close to the Gaza Strip over the past few days, starting with the execution of Hamas chief terrorist Samhadana.

Again, the so-called Beach incident does not smell kosher to me. The place of the incident was northern Gaza, where the Jewish village of Dugit used to be up till last summer. The retreat from Gaza allowed the rocket shooters to come closer to the northern edge of the Gaza Strip along the 1949 armistice line where Jews were living until last summer. Now, the terrorists can shoot at Ashqelon from a closer range. [thanx ariel sharon]. The person injured today can thank not only hamas but olmert, who is very good at shady dealings, but is not fit to lead Israel [along with his female companion Miss Birdbrain - Tsipi, by the way, is short for Tsiporah, meaning bird -- I see her best career choice as kindergarten assistant, a responsible job to be sure, and certainly a needed profession here; foreign minister is a few inches above her head].

Posted by: Eliyahu at June 11, 2006 5:47 AM

forgive me for continuing--
the area of the alleged Beach Incident is close to the armistice line where terrorists have been shooting often at Ashqelon since last summer and where Israeli forces have been shooting artillery over a wide area [northern Gaza] as a rather ineffective means of deterrence against them. How could any sane person, Arab or not, go there for a picnic?

Posted by: Eliyahu at June 11, 2006 5:52 AM

Just as on a previous thread, I had a big, long rant prepared, in this case, for special_guest. However, in the interests of not indulging in what I specifically denounced in the first place, derailing the thread into fields not germaine to the topic, I will submit:

Ahh, I see, so you set the rules.

No, I don't.

Simple solution: stop wasting our time making the claim.

Neither do you. If you don't like the posting, don't read it.

I will not entertain a debate with the above-mentioned contributor's fragile ego nor will I legitimize his defensiveness. That would be childish. As childish as taking one statement, one word, ignoring all else, and contriving a tantrum in miniature.

Something I learned in the Infantry. If everyone is shooting at you, it may be because your position is weak and you're an easy target.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 9:25 AM

-Eliyahu,

The attitudes of today's "nobility" may have something to do with their changed rôle in society. They just don't have the same power or vested interest they once did. Not to mention the fact that they are more often than not the products of "modern" education, which I imagine is far different than what their ancestors received. Regarding how much power the English kings had 300 years ago, the absolute measure of their strength is not as important as the measure of their ability to project it relative to that of the corsairs. It doesn't matter how many troops, cannon, or ships you have if you can't get them where you need them, when you need them. Such is the science and art of logistics. Good points, nonetheless.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 9:57 AM

Eisenhund said

If everyone is shooting at you, it may be because your position is weak and you're an easy target.

Your position is weak, and you are an easy target, if your buddy in the foxhole next to you starts hallucinating that you are the enemy and decides to open up on you. Cease fire, soldier, and snap out of it.

I will not entertain a debate with the above-mentioned contributor's fragile ego nor will I legitimize his defensiveness

If I am being defensive, it is only because you are being offensive. In the sage words of my 2-year old, "He started it". As for the keyboard diagnosis of "fragile ego", thanks doc. I'll add that to the long list of my imperfections and foibles.

If you don't like the posting, don't read it

Err, if I don't read it, I won't know that it contains baseless accusations and prejudiced over-generalizations. It's not an academic triviality. If you are correct and the problem is that the media is "leftist", then the solution would be to make the media more conservative. If I am correct and the media is already conservative, then making the media more conservative would not improve the situation, and the true solution (getting the media, including Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Buchanan, to report honestly on jihad) would have been sidetracked with a misallocation of effort.

Criticism of the left is valid, there are plenty of people on the left doing incredibly stupid things. But instead what I see here is people saying "Leftists love jihadists" "Leftists are sad that Zarqawi died" "Leftists hate America" etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum, none of which has any use other than to show the prejudices of the speaker. Insulting all "leftists" or all "conservatives" (which, you'll notice, we do not do here) does nothing except work to our enemies' advantage.

Posted by: special_guest at June 11, 2006 11:26 AM

Did you see anything about "Leftists love jihadists", "Leftists are sad that Zarqawi died", or "Leftists hate America" in my posting? If you did, read it again.

Or don't.

But in any case, do not ascribe anything to me or hold me responsible for anything I did not say.

I addressed some of the other condescending remarks you made, but erased them as, quite frankly, I have better things to do than to enter into an off-topic insult exchange due to your reaction to one word, a word by the use of which I stand.

I suggest that we limit further postings on this thread to the topic at hand with respect to Messrs. Spencer's and Fitzgerald's wishes. I, for one, am not going to address this issue further.

Posted by: Eisenhund at June 11, 2006 12:18 PM