those under investigation had links to "Jihadi campaigns" in Afghanistan and elsewhere

By St. George, I think he's got it! It's an ideology in search of an outlet. You don't see other religions with traveling warfare pilgrimmages.

Posted by: Beagle at July 4, 2006 7:01 AM

"Despite increases in resources we are running at near capacity."

Been up half the night and now heading back to bed. Someone wake me when the UK realizes that there's a war on and that they can't possibly get enough police/MI5 recruits to fight it from a domestic,"criminal" perspective, complete with court proceedings for every detained suspect. It's impossible (and the overall point applies to the US as well). Shake me twice as hard when the UK (or the US) honestly acknowledges what the war is really all about.

Posted by: Caroline at July 4, 2006 7:02 AM

The last part is very important too:

Mr Clarke suggested that the public were "not well informed about the reality of the [terrorist] threat, or indeed the work that is being done on their behalf to try to keep them safe". In part, he said, this was inevitable when dealing with the "global terrorist threat and with secret sources of information".

"At the same time there are some things that we would like to be able to tell the public but we can't for very good legal reasons. With terrorist cases taking anything up to two years or longer to come to court it means that the public are unaware of many important things that have happened in this country. That is a pity and it means that we must guard against blame, recrimination, speculation or myths taking the place of solid public information," he said.

Information about Islam and Muslims musts flow in the public. That is vital. Actions like the Quran Petition sure would be very effective: http://www.voi.org/books/tcqp

Posted by: ajm at July 4, 2006 7:06 AM

americaningermany
He's the son of Pakistani immigrants. A loner, he has been put into a psychiatric hospital after injuring 25 or so people in a three-week old VW. His mother was in the car with him.

http://www.morgenpost.de/content/2006/07/04/berlin/839285.html

Posted by: Silvester at July 4, 2006 7:46 AM

Once enough of these malfeasants are locked away, assuming they are eventually convicted, the next stage in the war will follow. There will likely be hostage takings, such as the one currently underway in Israel, wherein demands are issued to "release our Muslim brothers" or else death for the captives.

The punishment for Islamic plotting should not (solely) be jail time. Convicts should be stripped of citizenship and deported to Dar al-Islam. If this is not legally possible right now, then the law should be amended. Otherwise, jailing Muslims will create a powder keg that will eventually blow up in our collective face.

Posted by: Stendec at July 4, 2006 8:35 AM

Well, we should be able to manage that nevertheless. But millions and millions are burning to come up here (Europe) from Africa, as Muslim nations are hopelessly misgoverned (by definition). And that is the real explosion. I am not sure that it can be stopped, as the will still is totally lacking anyway, and even the conscience of the problem is hardly present.

Islam has to be healed from the inside. Or its modern jihad will grow and poison us from the outside. It’s feasible. Most of Islam is made of youth. They can change their mind while growing up.

Posted by: ajm at July 4, 2006 9:27 AM

This is a good sign.

Posted by: Foehammer at July 4, 2006 10:53 AM

Benefits stopped to jihadi families. But they still get emergency money to pay their expenses? So money is stopped - except it isn't.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/07/04/nterr204.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/04/ixuknews.html

Posted by: Borg at July 4, 2006 11:02 AM

"Islam has to be healed from the inside. Or its modern jihad will grow and poison us from the outside. It’s feasible. Most of Islam is made of youth. They can change their mind while growing up." - ajm posting above

ajm - defeating islam will certainly have to be a multifaceted battle, but before we can teach their little angles that there's more to life than the desire to dominate, subjugate, kill, etc. we all have to protect our homes/homelands so that we CAN have the chance to show hope to the unfortunate little mohammads. Our 1st poriorities have to include diminishing muslim #s on our own turf - so do what you can (educate others and VOTE) and put real people back in positions of authority and power!

Happy 4th of July to the United States!!!

Posted by: oregonjack at July 4, 2006 11:07 AM

From Stendec: "The punishment for Islamic plotting should not (solely) be jail time. Convicts should be stripped of citizenship and deported to Dar al-Islam. If this is not legally possible right now, then the law should be amended. Otherwise, jailing Muslims will create a powder keg that will eventually blow up in our collective face."

Laws like this will (must) be enacted. There are so many jihadist cells in the US, Canada,the UK, and elsewhare that law enforcement can't possibly keep them all contained. It my not be next year or five years from now, but there will be a large, very deadly attack someday (bigger than 9-11), and the non-Muslim public will react like one giant injured, cornered dog. When that happens, people will believe that their government as failed and react in self defence according to their own perceptions. I am aquainted with and related to many of the kind of people who will act that way. The backlash will be horrendous. New laws are needed actually to prevent an attack and the the kind of civilian retribution that I am talking about.

Posted by: Pelayo at July 4, 2006 11:08 AM

Yes, this is a good sign.

I believe that the Jihadi component will blow the cover off the Da'wa, which is the more serious part of the attack on the West.

Posted by: El Cid at July 4, 2006 11:09 AM

See how the media is.

It was my first assumption too. But the media didn't even mention the resemblance to the Chapel Hill incident. Most people who know about either attack won't know about the other. Perhaps the media are concerned about publicising such an easy form of mass murder? The Jihadis must be paying attention though, it will be interesting to see what this mujahid says in his defence.

Posted by: Animus at July 4, 2006 11:13 AM

The other part of the story.

http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=adimarticle&f=uk_-_olgbtopnews&t=4023&id=3128202&d=20060703&do=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk&i=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/mediaexportlive&ks=0&mc=5&ml=ma&lc=en&ae=windows-1252

A UN committee has allowed those deprived of benefits to receive emergency payments for basic necessities.

Four of the five households where benefits have been curtailed are in receipt of interim payments while their appeals are processed.

Posted by: Borg at July 4, 2006 11:19 AM

Welfare stopped for terrorism suspect families
Mon Jul 3, 2006 3:40 PM BST

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain will suspend welfare payments to family members of terrorism suspects as well as the suspects themselves, the Treasury said on Monday.

The announcement amounts to an expansion of government powers to deny state benefits to those accused of links to terrorism.

Previously, people listed as terrorism suspects have been refused benefits under U.N. rules which Britain helped draft as a member of the United Nations Security Council. The new rules mean members of their households will be cut off as well.

"The government has decided that, given the fact that household income is generally pooled, state benefits paid to individuals sharing the same household with a listed person would be directly or indirectly for the listed person's benefit," said junior treasury minister Ed Balls.

In a written statement to parliament he said the new restrictions now apply to the households of five suspects, but did not name them. They have all been denied child benefit and two have been denied tax credits.

Under the rules, those denied benefits can apply for a special licence to receive payments necessary for basic needs, with permission of a U.N. committee.

Four of the five households are receiving interim payments pending their applications for licences, Balls said.

© Reuters 2006.

Posted by: Borg at July 4, 2006 11:27 AM

The punishment for Islamic plotting should not (solely) be jail time. Convicts should be stripped of citizenship and deported to Dar al-Islam.

Why does anyone support leaving deadly enemies alive to plot and plan more terror?

Anyone who attempts to overthrow the established government and plans to murder fellow citizens deserves the death penalty.

A dead Jihadi is an ex Jihadi.

Posted by: treehugger at July 4, 2006 12:05 PM

Oregonjack: In Portland, you might make good sense, but here, in the center of Europe, you sound like just another Don Quixote. The first priority sure is to protect ourselves, generally (and I do my part, for sure), but it’s too late and too near over here. It will take disasters or decades for changing politics.

And it is another misconception to think that we could teach something to Muslims, or to any so deeply disturbed children for that matter. They have to do the way by themselves; they just need some incentives and some strong limits. And as America is quite active at that level, willingly or not, I think that it would be appropriate that Americans think about that, too.

Posted by: ajm at July 4, 2006 12:11 PM

What about Canada?! Muslim immigration to Canada
has been massive. Toronto is full of Pakistanis,
Iranians, and Arabs. They're next door and need
no visas to enter the US.

Posted by: george_rem at July 4, 2006 12:21 PM

"it’s too late and too near over here. It will take disasters or decades for changing politics."

If that's the attitude of the smarter and aware Europeans about the menace that Europe faces TODAY, it may indeed be "too late" for your continent and your legacy.

AJM and other European firends -- You should not be at all comforted by the notion that America can or will do all of the heavy lifting to save you from the problems your heinous leaders have created on European soil. There are two simultaneous but contrasting drum beats it seems going on in Europe. On the one hand Europeans decry the "American Hegemon" as your press and politicians describe it -- the recent polls state once again and emphatically that Europeans consider the U.S. to pose the greatest danger to world peace, and consider her to be a horrible imperialist force in the world. The contrasting drum beat has it that it's somehow America's responsibility to fix or address a domestic European problem which is purely of Europe's design: the Muslim Menace.

Do a little thought experiment for a moment: Mega terror finally descends on Europe (and it will come, have no delusions!) who do the Europeans blame for the atrocities? Will it be:

1. The 20-30 Million Muslims living in Europe's midst and the Islamic nations from which they came and still owe allegiance to?

Or will it be:

2. The "policies of the U.S. Administration" which have always been and continue to be blamed for everything wrong in Europe and the world?

Bingo -- number 2.

Sorry, friend -- but this time YOU GUYS are going to have to clean up the gargantuan domestic problems you've brought upon yourselves. You must recognize that America will do her part to help -- but there's no way in hell we're going to stick our heads out for you as your civil war continues to escalate. (You're already in a civil war, friend, and already you're saying it's "too late" -- that's a bad sign -- that's an extremely BAD SIGN...)

The Muslims know full well that America is their greatest impediment. Why? Because we're not like you. Do you imagine for one moment that Americans will automatically defend YOU as the megaterror descends increasingly on your heads? France Germany and the epicenter of the EU project in Brussels have been singularly unhelpful in America's efforts to roll back Muslim terrorism and Arab Supremacism in Iraq.

While you may not have agreed with the Iraq war, (and many here also do not understand this war) there isn't a single proposal from the Left of Europe or the Left in America to address the global menace of the Great Jihad. Diplomacy and appeasement ARE NOT ANSWERS. France, Germany, Brussels (and to a lesser extent the UK) (are the main architects of the policies which have enabled the entry and empowerment of millions upon millions of Muslims into your midst. The Muslims already intuit that you're unlikely to actually fight them in any manner to protect yourselves. They already have you down as consigned to the Islamic slag heap. You're "Conquered. Awaiting further orders." Why do you somehow think Americans should or will die and spend treasure to save you from these beasts?
It's time for Europeans to grow a spine and bite the Muslims back. It's time for Europeans to set about dismantling and destroying the socialist organs of the Press and the State which helped to bring about this calamity and this insanity.

Or are you calling for an even greater involvement from the American Hegemon -- this time to come in and dismantle your press for you? Are you calling on the American Hegemon to come and dismantle your socialist anti-American governements and supra-sovereign nightmares such as the World Court and the EU for you? Ironically that's exactly what an horrid Imperial Hegemon would do -- yet since we aren't one, and never have been one -- it's exactly what we will not do -- what we will NEVER DO. Yet as long as these institutions exist, as long as the Imperial Mandarins you've installed run your governments and these institutions, Europe will continue to spiral down into oblivion. Europe must begin to fight her escalating civil war, or Europe will be altogether lost.

Posted by: jsla at July 4, 2006 12:57 PM

5,000,000 Muslims in France, alone, for starters.

And most the EU has disarmed its citizens to insure that the Islamic invasion goes smoothly.

Long live the 2nd Amendment!

And a Happy Fourth of July from the free world!

(What's left of it.)

Off to grill some Hebrew National franks, add chili, cheese and onions (a "Coney Island Hot Dog"), pop a brew, and enjoy the day off!

L'chaim to all those in the IDF, too.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 4, 2006 1:34 PM

Jsla: Thanks for that reply! You were talking to a straw man for what I am concerned (I was and still am for the war in Iraq, I praise America, loathe socialist Europe, and am fighting in my [small] country with what I consider good chances of success against Islam) but that was a quite good rant, right on.

I won’t talk for the straw man. It is okay of course that Europeans sort out their mess on their own (although a generation late). But see: America is at work already in the Middle-East – economically, militarily, and diplomatically. The region is extremely important for the US, not just because it will threaten old Europe in a couple years (although that is a concrete source of concern in Congress already). So it would be important too that America gets an understanding not just of the nightmare that the Islamic religion is, but also of the mass of people that the Islamic world is.

For if we are to get rid of 1400 years old Islam in the next decades, it will be thanks to those kids. That's worth thinking about it.

It doesn’t have to soften you to know that they are mostly kids, it’s just information. And it can be helpful: in Saudi Arabia, the country of Mecca, there a gulf between generations right now. It is a good chance to take away the youth from Islamism. I’m not sure if America can do that, but it would help if people who happen to know Islam – the worst religion ever, no question – also would understand such things. That’s my whole point. Now, it doesn’t hurt that much does it?

Posted by: ajm at July 4, 2006 2:41 PM

Thanks AJM for your response -- it didn't hurt in the first place. If anything such posts make me worry even more about Europe's future, and her willingness to take this problem head on. I don't mean to be offensive, or to alienate you -- but somehow the attitude on the ground in Europe needs to change.

I agree it also needs to change in the USA -- I like you am doing everything in my power to convince. But I have come to realize that, despite the staggering shock of 9/11, at which point I was convinced that we were the most endangered, I have come to understand how much further along the Islam is in Europe and even in Canada than here -- it is blood chilling and truly frightening. We are overburdened with about 1/2% -- Canada has about 3% -- Europe has between 3% to nearly 7-10% in some countries, with many metropolises (your beating hearts) surrounded by near majority Muslim tumors. Good God! How'd it get to be that bad?!? How'd it ever happen?!?

Anyway, on America's Birthday, I'll climb down off this particular hobby horse and simmer down -- I'll let the hot dogs sizzle for a change...

While you may be right about the youth of the Muslim world, and I hope you are ... my gut tells me otherwise. These are going to be the fury filled vanguard, the new stormtroopers of Islam who are coming. They have been raised on lowered expectations, a religion of victimology to affix blame away from Islam and focus it on us, and have been abused with rage and hatred for the imaginary external Bogeyman -- THE WEST --

Their hearts are overflowing with the vile and poisonous hatreds of Islam, and I fear it's far worse than anything the current crop of Jihadis was suckled on. Whereas those verminous pigs were raised quite often in the West (Europe, to be specific) and perhaps abused by their parents or local Imams to hate us fervently, the new crop has Jihad mass media, Jihad TV 24/7/365 piped into their homes and heads. There isn't much good happening in the Arab Muslim media globally -- and much that is downright poisonous and malignant.

Here are some examples of how the Muslims teach their children well... In lieu of Big Bird and Ernie, they get frothing Imams telling horrid stories about zombies and death and the sublimeness of Jihad and Martyrdom. Take a look at these three recent videos and http://www.memritv.org/ :

Clip No. 1185

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1185

Clip No. 1184

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1184

Clip No. 1183

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1183

This "Islamic Friendly/Kid Friendly" material is being piped across Islam today -- that includes communities across Europe, Canada, and the US via satellite TV too. If you think these kids will do anything but work to annihilate us when their time soon comes, please explain the mechanism. They will each be worse by several orders of magnitude, and their numbers will dwarf the current crop of warriors for Islam -- How will we fill Kipling's "unforgiving minute"? The optimist would say "It comes." The pessimist would say "It has passed, and we did too little."

"Too late"? God -- It's never too late.

Posted by: jsla at July 4, 2006 4:27 PM

BTW -- I encourage readers to go to the Memri site and watch the videos in question. Because of their method of streaming, I don't know how to link you directly to the video -- the links I provided will take you to a transcript -- that's bizarre enough, but to get the full effect -- it's especially important to see and hear the Freak Imams terrorizing these children.

If you only view one, then choose clip #1185 -- The story of Sa'id. His storytelling prowess even grabs me through the screen -- even reading subtitles -- this is a Satanic man doing the work of the devil. I say that as an agnostic. But Islam nearly convinces me that Satan must be real, or, at the very least, that my vocabulary is insufficient to convey its ugliness, its taint, its evilness without reverting to references to the Devil. Watch Egyptian Cleric Sheik Muhammad Nassar's story, and see if you'd agree...

Posted by: jsla at July 4, 2006 4:36 PM

this time YOU GUYS are going to have to clean up the gargantuan domestic problems you've brought upon yourselves.

I sincerely hope it isn't too late for the US to learn from our dreadful mistakes in allowing Islam to flourish unchecked.

Most of Europe is already blaming US hegemony, has been for decades. Our prime minister's regarded by most as Bush's poodle, and our media increasingly adopts the skewed lexicon of the terrorists, repeating mostly unchallenged their claims that Western countries need to change their foreign policies (ie. distance themselves from American influence).

And if Europe should fall, if we allow ourselves to be terrorised into doing as we're told, like Spain already has, as France falls over backwards to do, and as Britian seems destined to follow, then it will be the rest of the entire world telling America that she should change her foreign policies, that they could end all the terrorism just by sitting on their hands and being good dhimmis like the rest of us...

One way or the other we're all still in the same stewing pot together.

Posted by: Animus at July 4, 2006 6:28 PM

I sincerely hope it isn't too late for the US to learn from our dreadful mistakes in allowing Islam to flourish unchecked. posted above

I am becoming increasingly pessimistic, and believe that it is too late. Not only do we have to contend with the (mostly Jewish) self hating eqalitarian Marxist Left, but worse on the right we have those greedy businessmen, corporations, "conservative" Republicans whose eye is always, and I mean always, on self aggrandization, the bottom line, profits and who kiss Arab butt and perform fellatio gladly to retrieve some of the oil money for their own redolent and resplendent life styles and privileges, they could care less about the Jihad and it's effects on the future, all they care about is getting tax breaks and relief from Estate Taxes, so their spoiled brats can inherit without worry the massive fortunes they accumulate.

Posted by: Nariz at July 4, 2006 11:44 PM

jsla: Here you have the direct links (note the clip # - that's the whole change from one another):

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1183wmv&ak=null

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1184wmv&ak=null

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1185wmv&ak=null

You are right: it is getting worse and worse, and I also think that many of those kids will become really nasty as time will go by. Probably more than anything we ever saw. But then it will also reveal the real, ugly face of original Islam to those who don’t have that potential of hate in themselves. Today, many people just don’t want to admit it, among Muslims and non Muslims alike. Tomorrow, it probably will be impossible to miss it.

So we’ll have a parallel grow of the number of people who get it, within Islam too. And intelligent Muslims sure can see it coming today already. We have to take advantage of that foreseeable evolution and search for the best ways to allow progressive Muslims to bring a rapid and benevolent reform in Islam, from within. I have a couple of ideas about that. Here’s a sketch:

Within Islam, the central point is religion. Jihad indeed, but also the old seeking for the “pure Islam”, that mythical thing each and every Muslim is taught in childhood to be the most wonderful way of living. You’ll find in most Muslims (and in quite a number of other people too) that dream of living one’s religion totally, 24/7, and not obligatorily dying in the process. We need a project which would gather and support such people.

I propose a great divan. A place to start a new assessment of Islam in the best conditions ever. Something really big, a religious gathering like no other in history,open to all. In Mecca of course. In a facility created just for the purpose – no problem for Saudis, no problem for today’s technology.

Such a divan is consistent with Islam history and it can be brought in line too (using some refined forum software) with the way ulemas did their job, during Islam’s first centuries, discussing the scriptures for making laws out of them. But this time, Muslims do know more about the world, history, science (the place of gathering itself would be a tribute to technology, fully wired with the world), and things than thousand years ago. And that makes quite a difference. In such a place, reasoning could be stronger than blind faith – if it is correctly structured, it will attract sincere seekers for the truth and give them an edge on violent believers.

So while many crazy kids will indeed do jihad and become shahid, other will gather there, find out the truth, discuss it, and overflow the world with positive, reformative propaganda, straight from the heart of Islam. And so, Muslims might save the day, using their own tools, languages, traditions, and values.

It’s only an idea, of course. But to push such ideas helps along – just to consider it possible, feasible, to think about it, helps to see a future, a great future you can grab, or build by yourself. And that’s possibly all it takes.

Posted by: ajm at July 5, 2006 1:26 AM

Aggrieved. Alienated. It'd help if the bloody media didn't perpetuate this BS myth of grievances and alienation and oppression and crap. These are people living in the UK, with all the opportunities staring them in the face. What are they "aggrieved" about? Why is it that Muslims are always aggrieved, and excused for being so? Why not Christians? Or Jews? Buddhists? The media is forever falling to its knees making up hysteria for local-born Muslims.

Posted by: feralee at July 5, 2006 6:32 AM