We will also not see the FBI or the mention/prosecution under the "Hate Laws or Terrorism statutes".

CAIR, and the media will now start "whitewashing" this.

Seattle is getting way out there on the fringe.

We have the home grown Washington sniper, and the grenade throwing Washington soldier in Kuwait.

How long will our Congress and Senate ignore who the enemy is?

How long will our Congress and Senate ignore imigration restrictions that 8 out of 10 Americans wants instituded?

Posted by: alaskan1000 at July 28, 2006 9:28 PM

Yes arent Muslims brave!...For Allah they shoot Women....For Allah they kill Children...Allah like the bully he is demands the death of the weak.....BUT THE GOD OF ISRAEL USES THE WEAK TO SLAY THE STRONG....YOUR DAVID IS COMING ISLAM....SCREAM IN TERROR!

Posted by: storagemanager at July 28, 2006 9:32 PM

The problem really is this religion called Submission. (I think it is probably a mental illness.) The American people already see what the political-cultural-education elites are beginning to see.

Posted by: Frank at July 28, 2006 9:32 PM

No word on this being an attack by a muslim on the PC MSM. I doubt we will hear much about it unless he starts screaming "jihad" to the cameras. Thank God for Robert's not being afraid to tell the truth. Shame on the media for their cowardice.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14082298/#storyContinued

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 28, 2006 9:37 PM

If an American did this to a muslim, this would be a hate crime. One day this will happen of course. But it won't be from hate, it will be for the servival of America and freedom.

Posted by: AMartinez at July 28, 2006 9:40 PM

At the current time CNN, Rueters, and BBC are reporting incidence, but completely withhold the fact that the guy was muslim or what he said.

They report every other bit, including that the guy said "call 911" after the shooting BUT THEY ARE CENSORING THE NEWS.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at July 28, 2006 9:41 PM

Here we go. Let's all watch and see what sort of sympathy these innocent Jewish victims get. It will be a telling sign of how much anti-Semitism we have here in the US. It will certainly be interesting to hear the American Muslims comment. Don't hold your breath for any sincere sympathy. Let's pray that this news coverage doesn't spark a load of copy-cat killings.

I think people are waking up to Islam, but they are way too slow in their response. If Bush is a Christian then he either does not know the Bible OR he's lying about Islam. Which is it?

I will certainly be praying for these victims and their families. So very very sad for them.

Islam is a very HATEFUL, EVIL, DEMONIC religion. There is nothing peaceful about it.

Posted by: The Goobs at July 28, 2006 9:44 PM

So now the Islamics can attack the Jews on our soil as well.whats next?GEEE I wonder how he got that gun?He has probably contacted the ACLU about his civil rights.

Posted by: Keep enemy close at July 28, 2006 9:45 PM

From LGF comments:

#28 abu_garcia 7/28/2006 04:56PM PDT
There was also this one in Texas
http://news.galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=635632856b4b5377

DICKINSON — A Dickinson man was recovering Wednesday from two gunshot wounds at a University of Texas Medical Branch hospital, where the man accused of shooting him practiced medicine.

Hospital spokeswoman Jennifer Reynolds-Sanchez said Dr. Wameeth Fadhli would not perform any clinical work while officials investigate the shooting of a 22-year-old bicyclist.

“At this point, this looks like it could have been just a random shooting, and that makes it a pretty scary crime,” she said.

Lock and load folks.

Posted by: miira at July 28, 2006 9:51 PM

DICKINSON — A Dickinson man was recovering Wednesday from two gunshot wounds at a University of Texas Medical Branch hospital, where the man accused of shooting him practiced medicine.

WOW I DID NOT HEAR THAT ONE!!! THATS WHERE MY FOLKS LIVE!! Well better call and make sure they have it locked and cocked....

Posted by: Keep enemy close at July 28, 2006 9:55 PM

“At this point, this looks like it could have been just a random shooting, and that makes it a pretty scary crime,” she said.

Well thats Islam for ya! They dont need an MO.

Posted by: Keep enemy close at July 28, 2006 9:57 PM

islam is not a religion, its a cult of hate and death. We have been warned, be prepared Americans.

Posted by: AMartinez at July 28, 2006 9:58 PM

The good ole religion of peace at it again!

Posted by: Dumbo at July 28, 2006 9:59 PM

Remember , when the 17 Jihadists were arrested
in Toronto Canada we had the Police Chief of Toronto meet with Muslims at a Mosque and hold a press conference to assure people that being Muslim had nothing to do with the persons being held.

It was actually a comedy show , except the tail end of the charade had a Pro-Iran/Pro-sharia law
Muslim take the Mic and blamed Isreal/Afgan and the USA for inciting these men to defend islam.

So Islam had nothing to do with the Terrorists
so they ask the Police Chief to come to their Mosque and tell the media Muslims weren't the main link to this wide spectrum of men arrested.

Posted by: ala-sux at July 28, 2006 10:06 PM

I've lived (born and grew up in the Jamaica Section of Queens) in New York or adjoining counties all my life. So I've not had much to do with firearms. But I've definitely had a great awakening re the value of the second amendment. The right of the people to keep and bear arms for self-defense is not an abstraction. That right is essential to a free people.

God help the victims of this killer. Too bad they did not have firearms for self-defense.

Posted by: Frank at July 28, 2006 10:10 PM

At this time if you can legally purchase a firearm you better. Look at the British, Aussies as many free nations are being disarmed. Except old mo, he's arming himself to his teeth.

Posted by: AMartinez at July 28, 2006 10:15 PM

Their leaders taught them to hate but they forgot to teach them self control and since they cannot reason they are dangerous. Only the leaders have self control. You can see them when they are interviewed on TV and they are asked about jihad. They always remain calm and speak softly, but you can tell that it is all they can do not to leap across the table and fall on the interviewer’s throat screaming allahu akbar!
No wonder the media are scared to talk about it.

Posted by: tgusa at July 28, 2006 10:22 PM

Let's see. There was the Egyptian man who shot dead two people at the El Al counter at Los Angeles airport. Before that, there was the Muslim who fired at a van of yeshiva boys in Brooklyn, killing 14-year-old Aaron Halberstam. There was the man who killed Rabbi Kahane after one of his speeches at a New York City hotel. There have been the mobs that prevented speeches (by Benjamin Netanyahu and other pro-Israel speakers at Concordia University in Montreal), and have intimidated others or tried to (see Brigitte Gabriel's website). There was the Egyptian co-pilot, who had a Muslim fit, grabbed the controls, and turned the plane into a nose dive, shouting "Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar" as the whole plane, and all of its passengers, including Americans, went down. There was the man, a Muslim named Ford, who tried to kill co-workers at a Safeway because they supposedly "made fun of him" for being a Muslim. There was the recent Muslim graduate of UNC/Chapel Hill who carefully planned to run down fellow students in "The Pit," a place for pedestrian traffic only, where students could sit around and relax. There was the MUslim man who shot several people on the Observation Deck of the Empire State Building, back in the early 1990s, found with a note in his pocket denouncing Jews...There was...there was....there was...

But CAIR is keeping careful track of all the hate crimes against Muslims. Keeping careful track of those storekeepers setting fire to their own grocery stores, and of all the others who have been non-existent victims of non-existent hate crimes.

Oh, there have been hate crimes connected to Islam in America all right. But not because Muslims were the victims.

Posted by: Hugh at July 28, 2006 10:29 PM

"I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel"

A Muslim for sure. An American? Not a chance. Standing on American soil doesn't make someone an American. This devout Muslim killer stands as living proof of that. He has just committed a hate crime. Let's see how the fellas at CAIR fend this one off.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 28, 2006 10:36 PM

Alaskan, I agree. The most the news will say is that "police are not discussing a possible motive". The cannot discuss the motive behind this heinous crime, for to do so would alert the sleeping American public that this is a hate crime by a muslim against Jews, and that in doing so he was just following the dictates of his religion, as the koran commands.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at July 28, 2006 10:43 PM

Just happened to read about this on Drudge. I had to come here to find out what I knew and suspected, but was left unsaid by the MSM.

I stay locked and loaded!

Posted by: TexasInfidel at July 28, 2006 10:44 PM

"No wonder the media are scared to talk about it." tgusa

It’s not just the media...it’s our leaders...our business leaders....even our stupid religious leaders like (insert your non-Muslim religion here..).

I grow weary of these simple cowards. They are plain yellow. It will soon be time for a grass-roots effort to shake the tree and to force new leadership. I don't mean a conservative group with many issues but a group dedicated to one and only one goal.....defeating Islamic expansion both in the US and to help all those around the world who would face the same. Their faith goes counter to civilization. They are a direct and clear danger to our nation just as the Nazis were a direct threat to our nation. It is time for action...we need to meet the political Islamic groups like CARE etc with a group that will get the ear of congressmen and perhaps presidents. We need our own pressure group to speak for the majority of Americans who deep down know Islam is a mortal danger but have no where to turn (can't trust the republicans anymore). Dam the PC crap. We need action.

I hope that such men (and women) who made this site possible will lead it (loved the movie btw). Perhaps it’s already in the works. Perhaps it has already started but it needs to get moving. We need men and women who have the skill and knowledge of Islam to lead this movement. I am a simple college student. I have very little money but if it should come to be I would follow.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at July 28, 2006 10:51 PM

CARE = CAIR (Mr. Gates thank you for the wonderful spell checker....)

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at July 28, 2006 10:52 PM

Yes , it takes a real bad muslim male to shoot five unarmed and unsuspecting women.

He should never equate himself as an American. American are not cowards.

And to think muslim males and CAIR scream about the marine singing the song about Hadji Girl. And yet when their gene pool does it....they're quiet as a mouse. Or they're stepping and stuttering all over themselves to calm the episode down.

Oh, and Hugh, you left out the jihadist in Chandler AZ who drove himself and the family pets into the paint dept. at Home Depot. He was screaming allahu akbar all the way through the building.

Posted by: freewoman at July 28, 2006 10:54 PM

This is another opportunity for law enforcement to charge this Lone Jihadist with a hate crime and put him, the Quran, and Sharia on trial. But as always, the bed-wetting little cowards in most law enforcement circles will not do what needs to be done. How is it that I have the standing to call a Police Officer, a Prosecutor, or a Judge a coward. Because it is true, dammit. If I have insulted any member of the JW/DW community who happens to be in law enforcement, don't hold your breath for an apology. This is a generalization that only applies to some people. If the state of Washington has a hate crime statute, and it is not applied in this case, then I definitely will not be grovelling for forgiveness for my harsh statements. Isn't anonymity wonderful? I am very rapidly running out of patience; I have one nerve left, and these Muslims are irritating it.

Posted by: Pelayo at July 28, 2006 11:05 PM

In OBL's latest taped message to the masses yesterday, he called for ALL muslims to "rise up" against Israelis and Americans. This bloke was "just following orders".

There will be more of the same, and probably worse. Note, too, that this latest message is absent the standard "invitation" for us all to convert/revert to Islam, declined of course, and we all know what comes next in mo's script.

Posted by: SandiM at July 28, 2006 11:19 PM

Ok, everybody, get out your scorecards. I'm an American Jew, and I'm pretty upset about what's going on in Israel. I have a lot of American Jewish friends who are also upset. We'll make this into a game, sort of like'guess the number of jellybeans in the jar'. How many Jews will attack Muslims here in Canada or in the U.S. because we are upset about what's going on in Israel? Keep those guesses coming, folks.

/sarcasm

I am just heartbroken. I lived in Seattle, and the Federation office houses many charities, not all Jewish but charities which help the entire community. I'm just praying that those who survived will make a full recovery. Too bad Washington doesn't have the death penalty.

Posted by: libbysmom at July 28, 2006 11:23 PM

Take care libbysmom.
This is a shame.
Time for some serious profiling.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2006 11:32 PM

Doesn't Washington have the death penalty?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2006 11:34 PM

http://www.doc.wa.gov/deathpenalty/deathpnlty.htm

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 28, 2006 11:35 PM

of course He did his duty as a moslem.

This guy is a criminal Moslem. Killing the infidel is one of Islamic forgiveness ritual. After this guy done his duty, all of his sin (since He is a criminal) will be forgived by Allah.

This is what Imam also has done to the American prisoners in the prison to recruit the homeland terorist. This terorist is more stealth because He/She is white American but He/She is a moslem. Don't let Imam get an inside access to the prisons in your country.

It is one of Islam strategy to defeat US. Islam will not attack US from outside, but from inside. All of Moslem in your country must be watched. They are your inside enemy, but they are more danger.

Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at July 28, 2006 11:40 PM

In 1981, the Washington Legislature voted for a new capital punishment law under RCW Chapter 10.95. This law did not have the constitutional defects of the 1977 law. It is the current law.

Carolyn, thank you for finding that. Now, we can only hope.

Posted by: libbysmom at July 28, 2006 11:44 PM

I can see a concealed carry permit in my future ASAP. Fortunately my wonderful state has such a law.

Posted by: Pelayo at July 28, 2006 11:50 PM

"It will soon be time for a grass-roots effort to shake the tree and to force new leadership. I don't mean a conservative group with many issues but a group dedicated to one and only one goal.....defeating Islamic expansion both in the US and to help all those around the world who would face the same. Their faith goes counter to civilization. They are a direct and clear danger to our nation..."

--- greatcometof1577

I've been thinking the same thing. Websites like this and others are great but we need an organized group that can work in a concerted manner to confront Islam on all fronts- political, economic and public relations.

Posted by: MilitantBuddhist at July 28, 2006 11:50 PM

Another one totally glossed over by the media...
John Allen MOHAMMED and Lee Boyd Malvo

page down for Malvo's jail cell artwork

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005257.htm

Allah Akbar anyone???

Just for once, I'd like to see "no spin" questions asked using quotes from the the koran as a reference point for islamic spokesmen to expose their sheer hatred for the infidels, that jihad is the duty of all muslims and that "PEACE" that they so happily associate with their pathetic religion only applies to the world after islam has taken over everything and everyone. (Of course, after that happens, it would then become open season on all non-arabs as well as huge fireworks between the sunni and the shia.

Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at July 29, 2006 12:33 AM

I've been thinking the same thing. Websites like this and others are great but we need an organized group that can work in a concerted manner to confront Islam on all fronts- political, economic and public relations.

Posted by: MilitantBuddhist at July 28, 2006 11:50 PM

.. here is one organization that is dedicated to this noble cause: http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/

Posted by: Alert at July 29, 2006 12:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8vC0K-ylq0&NR
Hezballah dating service as seen on LGF

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 29, 2006 12:43 AM

I first learned about the shooting of jews in seattle by the muslim scumbucket by listening to the michael savage radio show in manhattan. Once again mike savage rides to the rescue to report news overlooked by hideous mainstream media. Surely i thought i would hear something about the bias attack on the 10 and 11 o' clock news programs and fox cable. NADA. MADA. I urge every law-abiding citizen in the country, especially in seattle to go at their earliest opportunity to apply for a pistol permit. most will be denied. yet the demand for personal protection can become a media event. If one of persons in the jewish center had a firearm i pray he or she would have the moxy to send the human detritus to the next dimension with a few well-placed rounds.

Posted by: crumbinalfighter at July 29, 2006 12:53 AM

Carolyn 2,
Great link!! Thanks to that one, I found this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7VDdZ0aZOg&NR

Enjoy!

Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at July 29, 2006 12:56 AM

LA Times article citing "Muslim fears of backlash" in ....3,2,1

Posted by: Dilophos at July 29, 2006 12:58 AM

I will be interested to see if this is reported in the more left wing sectors of the British media (or at all). I suspect not. I fear such an attack in the UK. A terrorist outrage on purely Jewish victims would probably be well received by large sectors of the public and, at least, we would get much passionate analysis of the sufferings of the perpretators, sly questions as to whether it was a justified or proportionate response to the evils of Israel and so on.

Posted by: philiph35 at July 29, 2006 1:00 AM

The war with islam is fastly approaching. Do not be fooled, nukes may be used inside America by the mos........... The feds have not been searacing for nuclear sign at mosques and mo businesses for grins...........

Are you prepared.

Are you armed.

Are you ready.

The Texican.
Freedom, the only choice at any cost and the cost will be immense.

Posted by: Texican at July 29, 2006 1:13 AM

The Mayor of Seattle just held a press conference in which he admitted that this was a "hate crime". So while they're not calling it terrorism, the authorities are at least admitting it was a deliberate act of Jew hatred:

http://tinyurl.com/qgrrd

And the parallel with how Muslim jihadists have terrorized women and children in Israel and Beslan is striking. They just love to shoot women, especially pregnant women or moms of children. For two reasons. First, it's a great way to scare people. Second, as Phyllis Chesler has pointed out, Muslim men have some real sexual hangups when it comes to their relations with women.

Posted by: Steven L. at July 29, 2006 1:25 AM

Another fine day of antisemitism.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at July 29, 2006 1:43 AM

I'm sure the ACLU lawyers will be fighting each other for the chance to represent this guy. Gunmen like these are fantasy pinup posterboys for the Liberal crowd. Maybe he'll get a fat, juicy book deal in the bargain, and make the NYT best-seller list.

Posted by: sanman at July 29, 2006 1:45 AM

I guess the imams have declared open season on Jews worldwide. Hopefully, the Jews will respond in kind, and declare open season on the imams.

Posted by: Infidel33 at July 29, 2006 1:53 AM

The Canadian media mentioned the attack but only reported that the "Gunmen" was arrested.

The silence from CAIR will speak volumes about the real tenets of islam and Muhammad's brave warriors that attack unarmed females or children ,the usual defense will be how he's not a "True" Muslim.

Canadia's CBC brought in a Policy to not use the term "Muslim terrorist" or "Islamic terrorist" , even their news archives won't even mention the 9/11 hijackers as Muslims.
One item I found had the nerve to report 9/11 by claiming that the WTC towers collapsed after victims of hijacked planes died when they hit the buildings .

Posted by: ala-sux at July 29, 2006 1:58 AM

sanman,
I think you are forgetting that a very high proportion of the ACLU's attorneys ARE Jewish.

Posted by: give me doughnuts at July 29, 2006 2:14 AM

It looks like CAIR officially has a statement now:

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=2242&theType=NR

"We condemn this senseless attack on a religious institution and offer sincere condolences to the loved ones of those killed or injured. The American Muslim and Jewish communities must do whatever is within their power to prevent the current conflict in the Middle East from being transplanted to this country."

Everyone who comments on this site, however, very well knows that this is a very convenient position for CAIR to make them look mainsteam, non-extremist and tolerant. This way they can get the dhimmi liberals to casually forget what the Islamic religion actually teaches, such as the hadith

http://hadith.al-islam.com/bayan/display.asp?Lang=eng&ID=1660

"The Last Hour will not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims will kill them..." etc.

Though CAIR should be proud of their fellow Muslim working to bring about "The Last Hour", they are to embarrassed or afraid to mention the confirmed religion indenty of the shooter in their statement. Like we should be surprised...

Posted by: Matt at July 29, 2006 2:26 AM

doughnuts, big deal -- Tom Lantos is a Holocaust survivor, and he's championing the shipment of F16s to Pakistan. The Muslims are all united, but the infidels are disunited. United we stand, divided we fall. Apparently, unity on our side is politically incorrect. The Muslims however are never bothered by PC constraints, and will work relentlessly to achieve their goals.

Posted by: sanman at July 29, 2006 2:26 AM

Robert Spencer is making us all psychic. Yes! We have become telepathic and clairvoyant!!

As soon as we hear or read about an attack like the one in Washington, we immediately get tingling sensations, rising blood pressure, a tensing of muscles. And, over all this, we have a visceral understanding. We know who did it. Even when the media intentionally withholds the identity of the perpetrator, we know. Sometimes we can even perceive a name, Mo--ha--mud.

Strange, isn't it??

Posted by: texan at July 29, 2006 2:26 AM

give me doughnuts

"I think you are forgetting that a very high proportion of the ACLU's attorneys ARE Jewish."

You are of course right. What must be understood that in the good old days almost all Jews were "Jewish liberals" because Jews and liberalism went hand and hand. In today's postmodern world, in which liberalism is far more stupid, dangerous, and extreme than what it was, Jew and liberalism are no longer compatabile and two polar opposites are happening: (1) Jews who understand what is going on and have turned to conservatism, Daniel Pipes being a good example, and (2) those who have taken their liberalism so far and extreme that they sacrifice their own people and identity for their ideology (which only attracts them because of the boost to feeling of self-worth from egalitarianism). I should know, I used to be one (a Jewish liberal, though still a Jew). No, I wouldn't be surprised if the people in the ACLU rush to defend the "rights" of a murderer and shun those of the victims.

Posted by: Matt at July 29, 2006 2:33 AM

Expect to see more of this in the coming days.

Posted by: Patriot_1/17 at July 29, 2006 2:36 AM

Matt, let me add another perspective. A pendulum has 2 extremes -- but self-centred Liberals only recognize 1 out of the 2. They only like to talk about Big Brother, state repression, etc, etc. They never talk about the flip-side, which is total anarchy and terrorism. I'd say that just like with the economy, even socio-political conditions tend to oscillate like a pendulum. We all know that if laws become too repressive, then it will result in a backlash against the state. But the fact is that if laws become too lax, and allow terrorism and criminality to proliferate, then similarly it's going to result in a backlash against the laxness of Liberalism. Right now the pendulum has swung too far to the Left, and terrorism and criminality are proliferating, so society needs to correct that, and get us back towards the happy middle. People shouldn't feel guilty that they're "flip-flopping" because they're not. They're only trying to push us back towards the middle.

Posted by: sanman at July 29, 2006 3:06 AM

Just finished watching this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6162397493278181614&q=Obsession+What+the+war+on+terror&hl=en

that km linked to in another JW post. Helps you play the game "Connect the Dots' that the powers-that-be (politicians, media, etc.) are avoiding at all costs vis a vis incidents like this shooting in Seatle and the other mini US jihads mentioned above in comments by other posters.

Powerful stuff.

I've passed it along to my personnal JW/DW email list.

Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at July 29, 2006 3:13 AM

This is too close to comfort for me. As soon as I heard this story, on my local news channel, I knew who the perpetrator was. A shooting here, a car crash there. It's here people. Good news, it is being treated as a hate crime. Let's hope they do an investigation of his association with our local mosque.

Posted by: watcher at July 29, 2006 3:16 AM

No virgins for this guy. According to the reports, he called 911, then turned himself in to the SWAT team.

Coward.

Can't even die like a good little jihadi. Line up the snarling dogs for some interrogation incentive.

Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at July 29, 2006 3:37 AM

Info and a picture of Naveed over at Michelle Malkin's website:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005625.htm

Nice yearbook comment...below his name it says "Peace Be Unto You"

Here's Wolfgang Bruno's definition of PEACE from his Dictionary For the Infidel over there on DhimmiWatch
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012406.php

Peace: "Peace" in Islam equals submission to the will of Allah through his divine and eternal law, sharia, and the extension of the Dar al-Islam – or 'House of Islam' – to cover the entire world. The absence of sharia is the absence of peace. Since it is the will of Allah that Islam will rule the entire planet, entering non-Muslim lands to subjugate the population and wipe out their corrupt, infidel culture is not seen by Muslims as "waging war," but as spreading peace.

Wonder if the yearbook editor realized that was the peace Naveed was talking about???

Posted by: No_Mooselimbs at July 29, 2006 3:49 AM

Geek, what is your point in reiterating the anecdotes about Goldstein? What Baruch Goldstein did was condemned across the breadth and width of Israeli political and religious society. The Baruch Goldsteins of Israel are imprisoned. The killers in Islamic society, however, are often treated as great heroes.

For every Goldstein, there have been a hundred Muhammeds.

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at July 29, 2006 4:46 AM

Assalamau-Laikum all,

This is sad news for the Jews. They may feel threatened at home in Israel, but at least they should feel safe away from home…in a mini Israel if you will. Peoples spend a lot of time, effort and money to build a home in a foreign and have the right to live there at in peace.

This much will be true for all minorities including muslims. Most Muslims do hold a peaceful, tolerant and open view of their existence as minorities.

The question for these (as yet foreign) countries is “How can we ALL avoid Muslims not integrating and still allow Muslims and non-Muslims to feel a sense of common national interests and identity?” All of you peoples have a part to play …to welcome all minorities including the muslims…perhaps someone here could tell us all a story of how they helped a muslim as opposed to “shooing him away using a rifle for good effect”.

I have not seen America (although it is my dream to go on holiday in the US one day). I would have though that it is perfectly possible to be a good US Muslim and to be a good US citizen. The two are not mutually exclusive, far from it. As humans, there must be many shared bonds between Muslims and non-Muslims, for example, in terms of welfare, charity, neighbourliness, reciprocity, kindness to children and elders, voting, property rights, inheritance rights, and divorce rights.

Please remember that the concept of being a Muslim transcends nation and ethnicity. What differentiates Muslims is only culture, “nation state” is a relatively recent development. Borders, nationhood….it is a recent Western development, please understand that the concept of Ummah (global community) is important for Muslims, as it is a form of global solidarity, but not necessarily a movement.

It is difficult for the muslim to understand why he cannot go and settle wherever he wants…this is implied by the flat earth concept outlined in the Koran…so help him settle, rather than taunt and threaten with guns.

There is no separation between church and state in Islam. Muslims are fighting non-Muslims because they perceive Islam to be under siege, and historically that is justification to carry out Jihad - the reactive and proactive defence of Islam.

The concerns emerge because of the experience of colonialism in the past and systematic economic, political and social oppression and now more recently muslims being killed by the bucketload in the ME by the Amerekie, the British, other “badly influenced” muslims and now the Israeli.

Still, this is no excuse for breaking the law of a foreign land. The full force of US law must be exercised on him….other peace loving US muslim citizens will be on your side for taking solid action. They will realize it is for their own good to weed out the bad apples…in foreign lands , wuslims have the MOST important part to play....keep the infidel happy…do not give him cause to make tougher “hate laws”.

Meanwhile the police must provide the Jew the necessary protection to live in peace in the Amerekie.

Posted by: Naseem at July 29, 2006 4:58 AM

The Daddy of Imperial Pan-Islam called himself Jamal Eddine al Afghani in order to create the impression he was born in Afghanistan. Jamal wanted to disguise his identity as a Persian and Shiite. Lying about his place of birth was just one of the 'porkies' by this outwardly pious Muslim and closet Atheist [also Freemason]. Yes, Al Afghani was a closet atheist who railed against not only Islam,but all religions although only to more esoteric groups of listeners:
"Religions [wrote Afghani],whatever they are called,resemble each other.No understanding and no reconciliation is possible between these religions and philosophy.Religion imposes its faith and creed on man,while philosophy liberates him from them wholly or in part."
Afghani was the first Muslim to use the concepts 'Islam' and 'the West' as connating antagonistic historical phenomena-even if he was on the British payroll for years...[Nothing has changed much,eh]
Afghani 1838-1897
Mohammed Abduh 1849-1905
Mohammed Rashid Rida 1865-1935
Hassan al Banna 1906-1949
In the half century between 1875 and 1925, the building blocks of the Islamic right were cemented in place by the British Empire. With British patronage and support such as E.G Browne & Lord Cromer, the Salafiyya movement-the radical right,back to basics fundamentalists continues to this day.
Anyone who thinks to 'control' or 'moderate' Islam is a foolish Infidel indeed.Every historical example proclaims volumes otherwise.Israel fights for its life against an enemy determined
to destroy its very existence.Today it is Israel :tomorrow Europe and U.S.Despite rhetoric of desperate Euro Dhimmis this is already World War 3.

Posted by: Morgane at July 29, 2006 5:07 AM

geek,SPARE us your sham condolences.

Some time back, it was reported in the newspapers that a lot of "seemingly isolated macabre killings" were taking place in Seattle. One vital clue alone was mentioned about a woman and her daughter whose throats were slit on the walking trail....that her husband was a soldier fighting in Iraq.

It does not need extraordinary intelligence to connect the dots.

We are handicapping ourselves by needless guilt, squeamishness about shedding mos' blood, obsession with "proportionality" and defending the indefensible,non existent "innocents" among them.

The whole lot of them is desensitized, BRUTAL and EVIL.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at July 29, 2006 5:16 AM

desertdawg29palms-

I does appear that Geek is slyly attempting to make the exception (Goldstein) appear to be the rule. Of course, the exception proves the rule. What Goldstein did is such an exception that it is quite memorable. Muslim violence is routine in Darfur, in Israel, in India, etc. Violence against people that do not believe in Submission (aka Islam)is not exceptional. The Islamic-belief-system is looking more and more like a mental illness.

Posted by: Frank at July 29, 2006 5:43 AM

desertdawg29palms-

I does appear that Geek is slyly attempting to make the exception (Goldstein) appear to be the rule. Of course, the exception proves the rule. What Goldstein did is such an exception that it is quite memorable. Muslim violence is routine in Darfur, in Israel, in India, etc. Violence against people that do not believe in Submission (aka Islam)is not exceptional. The Islamic-belief-system is looking more and more like a mental illness.

Posted by: Frank at July 29, 2006 5:47 AM

Naseem, why just don't you come to other Islamic country instead to infidel country. I think your Islamic faith will more grow strength in the Islamic country than in the infidel country.

Believe me, you won't want to come back to your Islamic homeland after you feel it is more safe for you as Ahmadiyah to live in the infidel country, right? Of course it will lasting as long as your "true Moslem" brothers are not majority in the infidel country.

Islam is a cancer, eradicate is the answer.

Posted by: Mohammed_Pedophiles_Club at July 29, 2006 5:48 AM

Folks- Sorry for the double posting. It said that my post did not go through and that I should resubmit it. I did-hence two posts.

Posted by: Frank at July 29, 2006 5:51 AM

OK folks, perhaps this is a tin foil moment but I see some parallels here with the recently decided Andrea Yates case that are interesting. My premise is this is a copy-cat killing in order to exploit our judicial system with respect to the insanity defense. Here are the parallels:

1. The killing occured a couple of days after the Yates case was decided. The seed was planted and grew quickly.

2. Like Yates, the perp called 911 himself.

3. According to http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003160576_webshooting29m1.html , the perp "apparently has a history of mental illness".

Now what was that Hugh's been telling us about the various instruments of the jihad?

Posted by: NativeSon at July 29, 2006 5:56 AM

Geek-

You are the type of dishonest person that if someone points to the Arab-Muslim extermination of the Negro Africans in Darfur you will bring up the Nazi extermination of the Jews.

Posted by: Frank at July 29, 2006 5:58 AM

Geek-

The Muslims would love to do to the Jews in Israel what they are doing to the Negro Africans in Darfur. The only difference is that Jews have been down the Darfur road and don't intend to go down that road again.

Posted by: Frank at July 29, 2006 6:04 AM

philiph35-

"I fear such an attack in the UK. A terrorist outrage on purely Jewish victims would probably be well received by large sectors of the public...."

While it would be fair to question our standing on political issues, I don't believe our morals have sunk so low that we'd be happy to see Jews massacred in the UK. While we may have lost a lot of political backbone and the leftist/liberal factions in our society are seemingly oblivious to the threat our country faces, I believe that to be an overly negative view of the UK. If this were to happen, Britons would see this as yet another attack on Britain, while the media and Muslim organisations would go into overdrive in order to distance themselves (and Islam) from the act.

Naseem says-

"The question for these (as yet foreign) countries is “How can we ALL avoid Muslims not integrating and still allow Muslims and non-Muslims to feel a sense of common national interests and identity?” All of you peoples have a part to play …to welcome all minorities including the muslims…perhaps someone here could tell us all a story of how they helped a muslim as opposed to “shooing him away using a rifle for good effect”

If anyone from the other nations could provide some indicator of their own nations realities of Muslim "integration", I'd be happy to hear them, but here in the UK Muslims have isolated themselves; They just don't want to live side by side with us. Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Taoists, Jews.... All other religious denominations have increasingly made efforts to integrate into what were historically British,white Christian neighbourhoods. I make no assertions that their integration has been without teething problems. There will always be uneducated idiots that see a break from the historical racial "Norm" as a threat, but they are a minority and can for the most part be ignored.

So what is the difference between the Sri Lankans, the Indians, the Polish and all the other ingredients of the diverse racial mix we have in British society, compared to the Muslims?.

The difference is that any of the former are increasingly happier to move away from their own ethnic groupings and quite happily "live next door" in what were predominantly indigenous British, white,Christian neighbourhoods; Whereas the Muslims tend to land on our shores and head straight for the ghettos they have made for themselves.

No-one asked them to. No-one forced them to. They just don't want to integrate with us. They have no interest in contributing to the greater British society; Their only interest is the advancement of Muslims, no matter what the social or financial cost to that society. Muslims have the highest rate of unemployment and the highest rate of of claims for welfare benefits than any other demographic group...

See http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=979

... Yet claim that the reasons for this are that British society has no wish to aid the advancement of employment opportunities in our country for Muslims. Let me make this abundantly clear: there are jobs to be had, but how can you get to them if you won't move from the "Ghetto"?.

Neither could this ever be passed off as a race issue. Again, I would not be so presumptious to assert that there are no "Colour" issues in our country, as there are in all. Yet Afro-Caribbean, Indian Hindus and Sikhs...... get their heads down, work hard, contribute to society and integrate.

Indeed, Hindus and Sikhs are becoming more and more at pains to distance themselves from the once universal label of "Asian"; This in light of the increasingly popular conception of "Asian" being synonymous with "Muslim". This speaks volumes in itself.

Naseem asks how we, as non-Muslim nations, can facilitate Muslim integration and give Muslims a "Sense of common national interests and identity" and asserts that we "All have a part to play" in this.

In response I would ask this:

We've doing our part. The other ethnic/religious minorities are doing their part. It's not perfect, but it's happening.

So what excuse do the Muslims have?

Posted by: Wishbone at July 29, 2006 6:28 AM

Also, Naseem says-

"perhaps someone here could tell us all a story of how they helped a muslim as opposed to “shooing him away using a rifle for good effect”"

Considering that Western societies are much more advanced with regards to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, medical care and all the other benefits of those advancements, I'd say that Muslim had been very much "helped" already in one major respect:

They let you come and live in that society so you could enjoy those freedoms.

Murdering other citizens of that society is hardly a just repayment for that "help".

Posted by: Wishbone at July 29, 2006 6:40 AM

Wishbone

I could not agree more but there are a few details I would add.

Firstly Muslims actively drive out non-Muslims from “their” areas often by low-grade harassment such as their many relatives constantly calling on the infidel’s house and asking so and so lives there. Sometimes by more "active" means. One old Polish lady, who refused to move, compared her status living in a Muslim area to her time in Germany as a forced labourer. This happens even when they move upmarket, a friend living on a small “professional” estate has had two Muslim families move in and their relatives regularly knock on his door asking if he wants to sell.

As to large number of Muslims drawing welfare benefits, this does not necessarily mean they are “economically inactive”. Some time age the Sunday Times cited the case of two brothers who drew benefits but spent most the year managing the family estate in Pakistan but did not identify them. The Sunday Times also noted that Britain actually had a negative balance of payments with Bangladesh hinting this was due to remittances. But lets face it if you have 4-6 children and take your family “home” for several months a year you can live well in Pakistan or Bangladesh on British rates of welfare.

Finally unemployment among Muslim women, A speaker on BBC of all places said “We have to stop thinking like liberals on this issue the reason for the low achievement of Muslim women is because their families do not want them educated”

Posted by: Fred at July 29, 2006 7:13 AM

The individual attacks of Jihad by hateful and demented muslims will escalate. The mounting demands and cries of justice by Americans will escalate. The backlash of fire and revenge will burn muslims so badly that they will have no alternative than to return to their lands of origin. CAIR, oil, will have no bearing on the wrath of the American People. These animals will cause all muslims to be hated and depised. Close all of the mosques immediately, ban this hateful ideology, deport all muslims........NOW!!!!

Posted by: Truthseeker at July 29, 2006 7:21 AM

What happened in Washington is a sign of the dangerous times we live in. There is a resugent anti-semitism happening around the world.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 29, 2006 7:56 AM

Folks,

Do not feed trolls like "geek". Geek is an example of what a troll is, period. Ignore them.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 29, 2006 7:57 AM

What had happened in Washington state should be a reminder that the time is going to come that the everyday American is going to end up having to fight the Muslims in America bigtime. It is not a matter of if but when.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at July 29, 2006 7:59 AM

Pakistanis are infected with hate ideology, and that's what boosts them over the tipping point into acts of violence. Because their hate is not repudiated and instead actually rewarded by the Whitehouse, then it only continues to grow.

Look at how much money and aid was provided to Pakistan after that earthquake. The US was spending money helping quake victims so that Pakistan's military dictatorship could spend money on weapons. All they do is repay kindness with venom. It's called appeasement.

Posted by: sanman at July 29, 2006 1:49 PM

Naseem:

You state "Muslims and non-Muslims, for example, in terms of welfare, charity, neighbourliness, reciprocity, kindness to children and elders, voting, property rights, inheritance rights, and divorce rights" are issues that we share as human beings.

But you know that most Muslims believe you are a heretic because you are Ahmadi. Islam also teaches that certain groups are subhuman and not worthy of life if they do not embrace Islam (Hindus, Buddhists, Shinto, Tao.) Jews and Christians are "protected", but are dehumanized by being forced to pay taxes and discriminated against in employment, etc. in Islamic states.

You know that though infidels are human beings and share the above human values with Muslims, we are not considered equal to Muslims. A Muslim will look to the welfare of only other Muslims. So please explain how we ever could be seen as people who matter to a Muslim?

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at July 29, 2006 4:24 PM

Naseem:

You state "Muslims and non-Muslims, for example, in terms of welfare, charity, neighbourliness, reciprocity, kindness to children and elders, voting, property rights, inheritance rights, and divorce rights" are issues that we share as human beings.

But you know that most Muslims believe you are a heretic because you are an Ahmadi Muslim. They would kill you if you didn't accept their form of Islam. Islam also teaches that certain groups are subhuman and not worthy of life if they do not embrace Islam (Hindus, Buddhists, Shinto, Tao.) Jews and Christians are "protected", but are dehumanized by being forced to pay taxes and discriminated against in employment, etc. in Islamic states.

You know that though infidels are human beings and share the above human values with Muslims, we are not considered equal to Muslims. A Muslim will look to the welfare of only other Muslims. So please explain how we ever could be seen as people who matter to a Muslim?

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at July 29, 2006 4:25 PM

Did any muslim country even OFFER aid to the victims of Katrina?
I don't think so. They are however the FIRST to DEMAND that they be recognised as the poor victims. boooo-hoooooo!

There are NO similarities between the hateful muslims and the rest of human race. NONE.

Posted by: freetoBEfree at July 29, 2006 6:15 PM

It is difficult for the muslim to understand why he cannot go and settle wherever he wants…this is implied by the flat earth concept outlined in the Koran…so help him settle, rather than taunt and threaten with guns.

There is no separation between church and state in Islam. Muslims are fighting non-Muslims because they perceive Islam to be under siege, and historically that is justification to carry out Jihad - the reactive and proactive defence of Islam.

Posted by: Naseem at July 29, 2006 04:58 AM

Naseem, When has a Muslim allowed a non-muslim live in peace, does't non-muslim have the same right to 'settle wherever he wants'? Your twisted 'muslim brother' will target the non-muslim to 'convert-or-die'. Oh how nice it would be for infidel fools to fall for your 'muslim cannot understand... 'story, Sorry, but we know better.

That (no separation between church and state) is an Islamic problem.

Well then, Fix it!

You are the one who yells 'Allah knows all'. By your own admission, Allah doesn't know earth is round. See how brian-washed you are? Thank you.

Posted by: Alert at July 29, 2006 7:55 PM

I grow weary of these simple cowards. They are plain yellow. It will soon be time for a grass-roots effort to shake the tree and to force new leadership. I don't mean a conservative group with many issues but a group dedicated to one and only one goal.....defeating Islamic expansion both in the US and to help all those around the world who would face the same.Posted by Great comet

Why does it have to be conservative? If it is conservative I won't nothing to do with it, because by definition conservatives have agenda's that I consider harmful to freedom, happiness, liberty and prosperity for all.

I signed on long ago, and I'm not "conservative" (not by the modern reckoning it seems, but a Goldwater conservative, which puts me on the left today).

We don't need "conservative groups" or liberal groups or their agenda's, all we need is one group, freedom loving Americans who are not wrapped up in some (purposefully divisive) culture war..

And BTW, those on the "right" who started and perpetuate the culture war, are Islams best allies.

Posted by: Nariz at July 29, 2006 8:40 PM

"We don't need "conservative groups" or liberal groups or their agenda's, all we need is one group, freedom loving Americans who are not wrapped up in some (purposefully divisive) culture war..

And BTW, those on the "right" who started and perpetuate the culture war, are Islams best allies."

Has anyone ever told you that you are a raging hypocrite? Most of your posts on this site consist of little more than galloping around on your anti-right, anti-conservative, anti-Christian hobbyhorse. What little anti-mohammedan content you include makes me think of the guy who would bring a cheap gift to a wedding reception so he'd have an excuse to hover around the bar all night, drinking free booze.

Maybe you should start your own site, where you can sprew all the venom that you want, on whatever you want, instead of posting your poisonous screeds in this forum, most of which are not germaine to the topic of the page.

Posted by: Eisenhund at July 29, 2006 9:28 PM

Bravo Eisenhund

Posted by: Carolyn2 at July 31, 2006 12:16 AM