Are they (Muslim Americans) really pushed around? Let's see. They failed to build anything decent out of their own countries, they were allowed into US (as well as Australia, EU etc), they were given equal rights, employment, money for them and their religion, some of their demands towards public schools, food in the hospitals etc (Jews never demanded htings like that), and they still can always go back to where they came from. Does that sounds like pushing around??

One more comment. There are two reasons while non-white non-Christian migrants were allowed into US and other countries. One - the shock of Holocaust, that convinced majority of population to accept refugees even if they don't like them, on humanitarian ground. Second - hard work of most of Jewish (as well as Chinese) migrans in integrating with the core community and becoming really contributing citizents.

So, they were not pushed around, they were given more then way deserved, curtesy of Jews. Americans and Australians, please accept my individual apologies. From now on, please to not extend your reactions to my contribution to your society to non-Christian migration in general

Posted by: Terry Crane at August 3, 2006 4:46 AM

So, he is tired of getting pushed around? He should be thankful, if he were back in a Muslim governed country, he would be recruited to be a)a suicide bomber, b)trained to be a terrorist , c)starving, d)subjected to look at women dressed in body bags, e)have no shower facilities availiable, f)unable to buy a car, g)be a risk of death from unnatural causes such as bombs, bullets, and chemicals,h)be forced to listen to daily speeches by crazed Islamic clerics and government officials telling him he must die for Allah. i)become aware that he no longer could watch TV, listen to radio, see a movie, attend a sporting event, talk to women without fear of a reprisal by the womans male family members,be able to move around freely, get a job of your choice,and the list goes on and on.
BUT, he is a Muslim and in the typical Muslim tradition he makes the wrong choices by blindly following the will of the death cult called ISLAM aka The Religion of Peace.
I agree there should be some mechanism installed where the people who openly support the terrorists, make threatening statements, defy our laws, disrespect our people and our way of life in a threatening manner, bare arms against us, attack our people in any fashion including car ramming, assaults, arsons, harrassments,hate speeches, hate instruction in mosques or school classrooms, and on and on to be immediately deported. It would be cheaper and quicker to deport them than to take them to court. Let them live joyously in the company of their Muslim brothers in a more friendly Muslim country. If they return after deportation, then a minimum 50 year prison term at hard labor be enforced.
Our immigration policies seriously need revamping to stop this invasion force of Muslims entering the country. AND it is an invasion (and they mean to destroy America).
You recall over 50,000 Lebanese Muslim-Americans cried for help to flee Lebanon. They chose American help over fighting the evil Jews.I even noticed they complained about the service on the cruise ship helping to evacuate them. The boat trip was only 5 hours long. (Now if I am being rescued from bombs from the Jews and bombs/rockets from the terrorists--I am not complaining about anything).Then after arriving in Cyprus, these people resumed badmouthing the JEWs and America. We should have immediately returned these people back to Lebanon.
Yes, deportation rules need to be in place and deportation should be carried out. The alternative could well be a battle in your own country.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 3, 2006 7:14 AM

It's a hate crime.

The death penalty for this tool of islam.

Requires an ignorant of islam liberal jury be manipulated to give him a pass.

His dad founds the mosque outside Seattle, and he becomes the tool to carry out its sentence.

Dont you feel sorry for him already ? He's just a victim. After all, he was only trying to kill Jews. Is that a crime ?

Posted by: dgene at August 3, 2006 7:27 AM

The idea of "hate crimes" is Orwellian since it specifically punishes thought-it's Orwell's "thought crimes" come true. Logically, all people who have hostility to anyone because of their religious or ethnic group (or whatever)are criminals because of the thought: speech codes are a natural by-product and progression of such thinking. The concept has an internal logic that could easily be abused by CAIR types. We should only punish criminal behavior or incitement to crime.

However, Haq's behavior, including taking a 13 year old Jewish girl hostage to gain entry to the center to kill one Jewish woman and seriously wound 5 others because they are Jewish is a very serious violation of their civil rights, and the civil rights of all the people at the center. The US Justice Dept. should be involved for that reason (in addition to prosecution by the Seattle D.A.).

This is a civil rights crime since Haq specifically did harm to the victims because they are Jewish. The Feds should be involved-that would be a more powerful statement on the matter than the D.A. playing games re "hate crimes".

Posted by: Frank at August 3, 2006 7:27 AM

Israel’s military actions in Lebanon have strategic objectives, but there is an emerging public relations challenge. Hizballah does not recognize Israel, seeks a means to its elimination, and has a goal to establish and control an Islamic Lebanon. Israel’s response in Lebanon may also play into the hands of Hizballah’s strategy. Hizballah will use civilians as a shield and as a weapon. Hizballah will fire rockets from civilian areas, and then disperse. Israel will fire on the areas where Hizballah launched the rockets, while photographers capture Israel firing upon dwellings and civilians. The videos circulate on the world news, and are used as sociological, political, and ideological weapons. Islam is a form of collectivism, and Muslims may find the militant jihad emerging from within.

Posted by: SFOD at August 3, 2006 7:54 AM

I thougth he "converted" to Christianity? Or was that just a ruse to take the heat off islam when he was caught? So his stqatement "These are Jews and I'm tired of getting pushed around and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East." Refers to Christians gertting pushed around by Jews and Christians in the middle Ease getting pushed around? Sorry, I'm not buying it. He is still a muslim and this IS a hate crime. Shame on Seattle law enforcement if they don't prosecute it as such. I hope some of the victims know a good Jewish lawyer and they sue the hell out of Seattle.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at August 3, 2006 8:13 AM

Never thought I'd see it happen. The frozen pig-head roller from Maine remains uncharged. I owe Pelayo a buck.

Posted by: limes at August 3, 2006 8:55 AM

from above

"The US Justice Dept. should be involved for that reason (in addition to prosecution by the Seattle D.A.). "

At the ever increasing number of incidents, the Justice Dept had better hire a large number of personnel, increase their budget and be prepared to spend millions of dollars and millions of hours just to get minimal sentences.

It is better and cheaper just to deport them.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 3, 2006 8:58 AM

exsgtbrown-

I understand your point of view. Anyone who is a happy bunny with Muslims and the behavior of too many of their brethren, the oft heard Muslim incitements to homicide, and the silence of so many Muslims re those things, is not normal. However, here I am thinking specifically of the Haq crime.

The officers who beat Rodney King were prosecuted by the Feds for violating King's civil rights (though the main reason for the beating was anger because he resisted after being arrested for speeding). Those officers are sentenced to very long prison terms. The Fed prosecution was a big media event. (I'm afraid Haq's murderous rampage will get buried if it stays in Seattle.)

There's a much stronger case for prosecuting Haq for violating the civil rights of the victims at the center(in addition to prosecution by Seattle)because Haq's violence was a direct result of the victims being Jewish. This should literally be made a high profile Federal case. That would send a powerful message to silent Muslims and Muslims such as Haq. Otherwise, it will get buried in Seattle.

"Hello Mr. President, Mr Attorney General...."

Posted by: Frank at August 3, 2006 9:51 AM

Frank: many thanks for the elucidation, and an important and useful distinction: hate speech v. civil rights

If one says: what do you get when you mate a human and a sloth ?: someone who will believe in islam - then you have the genesis of a hate crime, and we might as well ban the koran as it is hate literature.

If we are opposed to hate speech, then we are willing to ignore its incitement value.

An acceptable cost for living in a free society? Probably.

Posted by: dgene at August 3, 2006 12:04 PM

Frank: correction.

"If we are opposed to hate speech being actionable or prosecutable."

(most of us would find hate speech bad form in any event and would oppose it).

Posted by: dgene at August 3, 2006 12:13 PM

Although I missed the first few posts on this topic, although it's instructive as to the working of the 'minds' of Muslims among us, and while I sympathize with the victims, I've otherwise found this story about as captivating as the Duke Lacrosse rape case, or the Natalie Holloway disappearance.

However, on the subject of Hate crimes, I've always opposed it since the motivation behind a crime should be irrelevant to the sentence it receives. Having said that, it did become law, but if the authorities cannot prosecute it in cases where it clearly exists, it's time to re-look at it, and take it off the statutes.

And while they are at it, fire at Liberals on all cylinders (metaphorically, of course) and tax them on why they are not aggressively demanding that this case be prosecuted as a Hate Crime, since they were the ones who went at Bush 43 with the James Byrd commercial in 2000. Also, where is the Anti-Defamation League in all this - usually, they are quick to pounce on Conservatives whom they suspect of being anti-Semite. And where is the Jewish Defense League in all of this?

Just asking.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 3, 2006 12:38 PM

dgene-

I'm not a lawyer and only know the law via reading and my own thoughts on the matter.

However, to subjectively designate some violent crime as a "hate crime" is separating thought from behavior in the violent crime, and punishing the thought as a thought crime. Usually so-called "hate crimes" are violent crimes committed against some specific category of persons because they are in that category of persons. But that is a violation of their civil rights-aside from the criminal act. What happened at the Jewish Center is a violation of civil rights because it was committed against Jewish people because they are Jews.

In a similar vein, unless a person incites to violence-I also look upon so-called "hate speech" as a species of thought crime. It's not illegal to hate(for example, a Holocaust survivor might hate Germans-and express that)-but unless the person incites to violence, there is no crime.

In my view, Haq should be 1)prosecuted by Seattle for the violent behavior that took the life of one woman and seriously wounded 5 other ladies and 2) prosecuted by the Feds for the behavior of violating the civil rights of the victims and all the Jewish people at the center (they were all potential targets).

I think we got to stick to punishing criminal behaviors or incitement to criminal behaviors. This is how I see things on the matter.

Posted by: Frank at August 3, 2006 1:09 PM

Hezbollah tried to boast about pushing back the zionist invaders , but the media cover a story with video of Commando's using Choppers to fly all the way into hezzie controlled areas to enter a Hospital used for Terrorism and took 5 prisoners for a free ride to a Israeli jail
and make a choice to stop the terrorism.

The poor lebanese , 84% support hezbollah yet they just got Bitch-slapped around by those zionist pigs that are supposed to be crushed by Allah's warriors and Islams dominance .

Even with the video Muslims will deny it and claim hollywood made it with bogus Muslims and a fake Hospital.

Posted by: ala-sux at August 3, 2006 2:02 PM

I live in the vicinity of Seattle, and the local media always reports that Naveed Haq is being charged with murder and a hate crime.

So I googled Naveed Haq hate crime and get the results at the link: Yep he is being charged with a hate crime, says these media reports, and according to one the FBI is investigating it as a hate crime (A hate crime is a Federal, not local offense, and as far as I know the designation is used solely for reporting, not prosecution purposes).

From the Seattle Post Intelligencer

Haq was charged Wednesday with aggravated murder -- which could bring the death penalty -- and five counts of attempted murder. He also faces charges of kidnapping, burglary and malicious harassment, the state's law against hate crimes.

King County Prosecutor Norm Maleng has 30 days from Haq's arraignment next Thursday to decide whether he will seek a death sentence.

Notice that the State's Law against hate crimes is malicious harassment.

In other words the category "hate crime" at federal and local levels holds no real penalty or effect, but is more of a salve aimed to appease minority communities.. which means that anything that Muslims don't like can be called a hate crime, and in fact Muslims have organized and used their political clout to pass "hate speech laws" or include in hate speech laws.. anything that they consider "Islamophobic", which is of course anything that isn't fellating and obsequious.

Posted by: Nariz at August 3, 2006 7:44 PM

never supported creation of hate crimes which i think leads to fascism. the muslim killer i call a cowardly scumbag lowlife. imagine putting gun to head of a young girl? son of a clergyman. gimme a break. off with his head. if spouted that i hated broccoli or cats, the broccoli farmers and cat breeders could attack me for promoting hate speech. we have a right to our feelings, thoughts, attitudes until they assault others. keep it in our pants so to speak. this atrocity in addition to murder and felonious assault is a test for our guts, acumen, resolve to thwart venomous humans in our midst who wish to sink their fangs of nihilism into our communities. drunks run amok are led into detox or jail. the question is what do we do with human vermin on a crusade acting like gods for their god? we close down the god merchants. we declare mosques manufacturing the vermin radioactive and off-limits or leveled and turned into jails for koraniacs.

Posted by: crumbinalfighter at August 4, 2006 1:46 AM