"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" is a good one.

My also suggest a few other great naval quotes...

"Don't Give Up The Ship!" Oliver Hazard Perry in the Battle of Lake Erie, during the War of 1812.

"England expects that every man will do his duty" Admiral Horatio Nelson, Battle of Trafalgar, 1805 (for British JWs)

"I have not yet begun to fight" John Paul Jones; Revolutionary War, Action Between the Serapis and Bonhomme Richard, 1779 (which in some sad way is a truth when dealing with Islamic fundamentalism)

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at August 5, 2006 2:44 PM

Given Syran's support of Hizballah, doesn't Nasrallah's declaration of war against the U.S. constitute the same from Teheran and Damascus?

It must soon be recognized that we are in the global war for civilization against jihad--in other words, and not mincing them--a religious world war. It will respect neither borders nor the conventions of the West, e.g. noncombatant status of the elderly, children and the infirm.

Jew, Christian or other, faithful or secular, observant or not, there is or soon will be a bulls-eye on you at any opportune moment the jihadist can find. The awful dilemma is how to distinguish the truly moderate Muslim from the fanatic playing the role. The awful dilemma threatens our lives and our childrens'. To survive, how much can we stain our own souls?

I reckon the single most difficult task is just to get my countrymen to recognize this for what it is. Far too many react with a sad head shake when there's a report of a murder here or an bombing there as if it's just another human tragedy. Of course, it is a human tragedy--it's just that the scale is not understood.

Posted by: turn at August 5, 2006 2:58 PM

"For we are in the situation he was in: we have the advantage over the enemy, but the only thing we may lack is the will."

We don't lack the will. We have plenty of will. We lack sufficient rationality.

Or, to be more precise, our culture of rationality suffers from being enthralled by the dominant paradigm of PC multiculturalism. (See my latest blog essay on this by clicking my name below.)

This may lack the pithy punch of Admiral Farragut's gutsy imperative, but having the will and then going full speed ahead are worthless if our rudder is askew.

And our askew rudder is not merely a problem of a Captain Queeg or two (a problem of "elites"); it is a problem of a ship of fools, the West in general, top down, down up, elites and commoners alike.

Posted by: remote_control at August 5, 2006 3:00 PM

Once, at Chutney Mary's, a restaurant in London, a friend of mine from India (he had even gone to boarding-school near Simla) was talking about the American Civil War, a subject about which he knew a great deal. In fact, even as a boy in India he had dreamed of visiting the great battlefields of that war, and judging by a postcard or two I received much later, from sites in Pennsylvania and Virginia, he did, and he referred once or twice to an "Admiral Very-Good." It took me a minute to figure out to whom he was referring.

The article above honors, in several dignified ways, my friend's Admiral "Very Good."
The article acts as a reminder, in case anyone here is in any danger of forgetting, how we should answer, to and for and by ourselves, that question which seems so exaggeratedly silly to raise today, the question that became of subject of town meetings and campus rallies: Why We Fight. Vladimir Nabokov attended the "Why We Fight" meeting held at Wellesley College and declared: "Morally, democracy is invincible. Physically, that side will win which has the better guns."). One can hardly imagine such rallies being held today, and the very idea would subject one to mockery. Today the punctuation would be tellingly different: not Why We Fight but rather Why We Fight? with that rising and quizzical intonation that now characterizes so much of the speech of the American and Western young -- as if nothing can be certain, everything must be stated in the interrogative, questioning, doubtful, unsure-of-oneself mode.

Very well, then. Hold that rally, have that discussion about "Why We Fight" (in ways that should include much more than those "boots on the ground" we hear so much about), not in public, but rather in the town-meeting or campus auditorium or greensward by Lake Waban, of your own mind. Tell yourself what it was you saw in a museum last week, or what books you read or saw in the bookstore, or what music you listened to, or how you talked freely and easily with all kinds of people, of both sexes, out in public, with no religious policeman there to hit you with a mutawwa's stick, no turband trgolodytes, no goose-stepping black-balaclaved bezonians marcning, no wailing Arabic martial music, none of it, none of the hideousness of what the Shari'a would mean, does mean, or what all those attempting to mimic, more or less, the Shari'a, would mean for us and our laws, our customs, our undrestandings, our rights, our freeoms, our civilizational legacy that some are so negligent about transmitting, or so ungrateful and uncomprehending of that legacy itself. Make a list of one hundred, or five hundred, significant writers, scientists, artists, thinkers in the history of the Western world. Now ask yourself: how many of them, and how many of their works, could have been produced in the Lands of Islam? And when you look at those lands, look at how they are all run, look at what they have done with the vast unearned riches they have received, look at the hate and hysteria that characterize so much of their lives, look at the desertification of life that the spread of Islam meant for so many different non-Muslim peoples and lands, will the couleur locale of a Blue Mosque or two, an Iznik tuliped tile or two, a handful of poets who wrote a thousand years ago, make up for the tremendous cultural loss? Do we want our laws, our customs, our ways, the individual rights, the modes of artistic expression, to perish from the earth? Or do we want to live in a permanent state of maximum imperilment, worried constantly about offending the ever-growing number of Muslims in our midst, whose belief-system not merely allows them, but insists, inculcates, the very hostility toward Infidels that is so central to Islam, but we Infidels are apparently not permitted to notice this, or to express any hostility to the hostility taught toward us. Should we live, with mind-forged manacles, lives made ever less pleasant and less free, ever more unsettled, ever more expensive (for the costs of monitoring Muslim popoulations), ever more physically dangerous, because we cannot admit the evidence of our senses and the workings of our minds?

The tribute to Admiral Farragut above might be described as "Very Good." It is more than "Very Good." Try not to forget, or otherwise mentally misplace, this memorable aide-memoire.

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 3:03 PM

Islam is not a civilization, Robert. It devours civilized society, claiming what it conquers as its own. It must be recognized for what it is - a scourge on civilization. What is the product of islam? It is children taught to hate and kill and to celebrate death and the destruction of all that is good in the world. The vile system of beliefs called islam, in which men pray with their eyes toward hell and hold women as slaves, is being promoted and coddled to in Western society by leaders who would have us believe it is a peaceful religion. This plague has destroyed every culture that has ever accepted it. Judeo-Christians must not allow it.

For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out. †

Posted by: Kreuzueber Halbmond at August 5, 2006 3:12 PM

Robert,

Excellent point about so many Westerners putting 5 or 10 or 15 or 20 years of "this" life above the common good in the War against the Islamic Jihad. In the more secular European countries (Netherlands comes quickly to mind) the turn from Christianity to atheism over the past 30-40 years has brought unbounded hedonism in worldview. Too many people believe "this" life is it, and therefore all efforts go toward extending one's own personal life and pleasure. To heck with the common good if there is nothing beyond this life.

There is a direct correlation between the depth of faith in a higher being and willingness to sacrifice in this life. This is one area we have to give it too the Muslims. We don't agree with their cause (and clearly mohammed was a false prophet who made up a violent, oppressive cult). However, we must understand the willingness to sacrifice temporal life for a higher cause. Understanding of Heaven and our eternal souls helps with this. Traditionally, the West was known for people sacrificing for a higher cause. Look at the missionary movements, in which missionaries left Europe and America knowing they would likely never return alive. Look at the casualties in Western Wars up to modern times.

This is the reason I believe a renewed committment to Christianity (and Judaism for modern secular Jews) is essential. A reason the United States appears more willing to sacrifice individuals and please in "this" life is the higher belief in God. I realize even the US is nowhere near where it should be. However, compare the US to more secular European countries and you see the point.

I have found in the military that the closer you get to the "point of the spear" (Infantry, SF, Armor, etc.) the more true Christians vs. Civilian population. Anecdotal, but I know the stats would bear out this observation.

I realize there are brave atheists standing up against the threat. They are the exception to the rule However, on a society-wide basis, we need more faith in God and a "here-after". This will help individuals understand that pleasure and longer life are not the primary aims of our existence.

Posted by: hello123 at August 5, 2006 3:16 PM

Oh! But wait! This just in ...

Aug 5, 2:21 PM EDT

U.S., France OK U.N. Mideast Truce Pact

By NICK WADHAMS
Associated Press Writer

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MIDEAST_FIGHTING_UN?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-08-05-10-40-13

Okay, France, the U.N., and the U.S. have made a Mideast Truce Pact so Hizbolla and Israel can stop fighting and we can all move along home now.

Peace in our day has been decreed from the empyrean strata of elitistest thought and enlightenment -- too high for any of us to comprehend!

Gawd! What kind of hemp are these people smoking?

Or else they must be living in a parallel universe to the one that the rest of us live in, because this "Pact" is delusional!

(Okay -- so they don't inhale -- yeah, sure!)

Posted by: witness at August 5, 2006 3:16 PM

Great post and it spurred me on to look up some famous battle cries for everybody. Here is a small selection (with thanks to Wikipedia):

The modern Israeli battle cry, the Hebrew "Kadima!", translates literally as into English as "Let's go!"

U.S. Marines shout "Oo-rah", and the U.S. Army shouts "Hooah!".

A Finnish battle cry "Hakkaa päälle!", which roughly translates as "Cut them down!", gave the colloquial name, Hakkapeliitta for the Finnish cavalry in the Thirty Years' War. One Finnish battle cry during World War II, since popularized by The Unknown Soldier, was "Tulta munille!" which — again roughly — translates to "Fire at their balls!".

One used by the Irish people is "Faugh a Ballaugh!", Irish for "Clear the way!"

The Crusaders used the cry "Denique caelum!" (Latin, "Heaven at last!"). The Crusaders, especially the religious orders, also used "Deus vult" (Latin, "God wills it").

In Spain, during the Reconquista (718-1492 AD) and the conquest of America, they cried "Santiago", looking for holy protection from St. James, the patron saint of Spain.

The late Roman and Byzantine empires used "Nobiscum Deus" (Latin, "God with us"), as their battle cry.

The New Zealand rugby union team have a very famous war cry, called the haka which was originally used by the Maori before a battle.

"Bole So Nihal, Sat Sri Akal" is the battle cry of Sikhs who, by virtue of their religion, and their location in North West India, were involved in many wars and battles against the Muslim invaders.

The English have a battle cry of: "Excuse me, but do you mind most awfully? Thanks very much."

Actually that last one was a joke, lol, but being English myself I thought I'd slip that one in...as the actress said etc.

But here are some English battle cries too:

At the Battle of Hastings, Wace records that the housecarls of the Saxon army cried "Olicrosse!" and "Godamite!" (Old English, "Holy Cross" and "God Almighty", respectively), while the fyrd cried "Ut! Ut! Ut!" ("Out! Out! Out!").

Edward III's rallying cry during the Battle of Crécy was "Dieu et mon droit!"

Posted by: Ginro at August 5, 2006 3:38 PM

AS our country was founded on the principles of religious freedom, our fellow countrymen and government will not easily rise to action. As most of teachings and direction that forment jihad and spur its terroristic actions rise from the Mosques, I believe we will not easily take action necessary to address those that forment world-wide jihad. It. unfortunately, will require another sneak attack, human bombs and school takeovers to spur us into the actions necessary to ensure our domestic tranquility. I leave the "actions necessary" to the reader's imagination, but I would guess it would make domestic actions during WW II look tame.

But we would need to "snap". Much like the current "war" in gaza and Lebanon, Israel finally snapped. Those that would wish to lead our country after the next election are calling for Israel to declare a truce and withdraw. I wonder if Mexico was bombarding San Diego, and human bomb martyrs were killing our citizens on an almost daily basis, how we would react. I doubt that our country would exhibit the same "self control" that Israel would.

Truly, we find ourselves in a short window of opportunity wherein we can act to shape the future. The forces of Jihad have absorbed Israel's attention, while they are putting the final touches on nuclear weaponry. Inaction may relegate ourselves and our prodegy to Dhimmi-hood, until such time as we "snap". But at that future date the conflict might be at a cost no one would wish. We have a short time to wake up and act, to "damn the torpedos" and take out the Iranian nuclear capabilities.

Posted by: GrimReaperxxx at August 5, 2006 3:39 PM

The world as we know it has 17 days left. After which time, that battle cry shall pick up steam.

BTW, anybody in New York City, should get out before then. All major US cities are a target, but NY is at the top of the list.

Posted by: August22 at August 5, 2006 3:45 PM

Islam will only die if we invade their lands and convert them. That will never happen. Hopefully though we can expell them from our lands.

I can only pray that the fast jihad is so terrible that even the liberals are offended by the world islam. For it is liberal thought that controls the policies of the west. Therefore, islam must offend the liberals. As of yet, it has not. I pray that islam's blow is so outrageous, that even a liberal starts to get it.

Imagine a US where Oprah Winfrey joins JW. Imagine a US were Tom Cruise goes on bad about islam's evil doings. Imagine a US where Hollywood comedies mock islam. Imagine a US where Bono and the Dixie Chicks dedicate concerts against islam. That is power. That is what we need.

That is what is needed to happen, before Islam can be expelled from the west. Nothing of significance can happen until the liberal establishment joins us in the fight.

Posted by: August22 at August 5, 2006 4:10 PM

In the spirit of Farragut, how about some offense? Men of Muslim descent or practice (at least a good percentage of the ones I have seen) sure seem to enjoy the creature comforts when they’re here in the states. I know that the Saudi royal family enjoys Jack Daniels in Jeddah.

Export some of the forces that have caused the general weakening of our Country in the last 142 years. Set up transmitters and beam in ‘The Real World, Baghdad’, ‘Queer Eye for the Arab Man’, ‘Desperate Burkas’, add your own.

Send Muslim women to college and let them vote (some credit to current efforts on this). Encourage Muslim women to seek careers, belittle home-makers. Subsidize Planned Parenthood operations in the Middle East.

Levee heavy royalties on oil revenues and distribute them evenly throughout the population so that nobody needs to work.

All of these actions could be supported by our public policy. Our liberals would view them as a humanistic helping hand. They might be, but the actions would act to weaken the enemy and slow his growth.

Posted by: limes at August 5, 2006 4:14 PM

"Housecarls and fyrd"?

You've made my day.

As for Wace, time for a private service announcement:

Several years ago I bought at a library sale, with fifty or sixty other books, two leather-bound volumes of Wace, very beautiful, and I assumed in my haste that they made up a set. When I got home and looked more closely,I discovered that my set theory had been wrong. The two were the first volume (of two) of Le Roman de Brut (Rouen, 1836), and the first volume (of two) of Le Roman de Rou (Rouen, 1827). I called the organizers of the sale; they looked but could not find volume 2 of either set (possibly they had long been lost, possibly another buyer has on his hands two volume 2's by Wace). Anyone have volume 2 of either set, available for love or money?

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 4:18 PM

Robert,
Couldn't agree with you more. Non-Islamic countries to a larger extent has been able to maintain their non-islamic population into moderation.
Moderate muslims has not been able to contain savage impulses of their fellow co-religionists. This monstrosity has to be snuffed out. Enough is enough.

Posted by: Desi at August 5, 2006 4:29 PM

What we really need is a President of the United States who can discuss the issue of Islamic radicalism without fearing the reflexive charge of bigotry or "Islamophobia."

The reason why the recent documentary "Obsession: Radical Islam's War" does such a better job of explaining than Bush himself has done, is because the movie uses real words like "Islam" and "jihad." And the movie exposes what the enemy really says in Arabic, by letting them speak for themselves.

The movie adopts a compromise but sellable position--that radical Islam is about 10-15% of the world's Muslims. That may be too low. But it's much, much higher than one would think by listening to Bush describe how a "tiny minority of extremists" (read: al-Qaeda) has "hijacked" Islam. And Bush never discusses what's wrong with the "hijacked" form, or where these "hijackers" of Islam got their ideas from.

And so we drift, wallowing in abstractions like "war on terrorism" or even worse, "Axis of Evil."

I think Robert and Hugh have done all they can, writing, lecturing, etc. But the political leadership in this country is missing. Their inability to discuss openly what's lurking inside Islam is killing us, literally killing us.

Posted by: Steven L. at August 5, 2006 4:39 PM

By all means JW crew, keep this this irrational idiots words on the forum.

Watcher, you're surrounded by your ideological adversaries. Stay awhile, I'd love to tear into you.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 4:48 PM

Watcher, why would he censor you? Your sappy tripe opinions are as useful here in the comments as they are in the article summaries.

Your job is so easy. Here, let me make your case for you:

Oh, please, make the iconic images stop!! The babies, the babies!! Viva la France! (Never mind who actually killed those babies, the same ones dressing them up for photo ops.)

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at August 5, 2006 4:50 PM

Oh boo-hoo, we're picking on Islam. (believers - forgive me but this is war)

Here's a quiz hotshot:

If Allah is willing but unable to cease suffering,
Allah is impotent.

If Allah is able but unwilling to end suffering, Allah is evil.

If Allah is both willing AND able to end suffering, why has suffering not ceased?

By all means, "watcher", astound me with your brilliance. Which is your "god"? A myth, construct of a desert thug or both?

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 4:58 PM

I'm afraid I can't help you with the books Hugh, although being a bibliophile myself I can understand how you feel.

But yes, the Housecarls and fyrdmen. I can just imagine all those thousands of men lined up:

"Olicrosse!"
"Godamite!"
Then everyone at the tops of their voices shouting "Ut! Ut! Ut!" whilst banging their weapons on their shields. Must have been an awesome sound.

In a way, it's what we need to be doing today.

He nearly won that battle but some say he lost because he was a gallant man, perhaps too gallant, and could be something we need to remember.

Posted by: Ginro at August 5, 2006 5:05 PM

Confess I'm not familiar with this particular Admiral-but stirring stuff and very appropriate for today.Guess the phony War is over:battlelines in WW111 are showing clearly.
War is a filthy,brutal business but the only choice Israel has is to flush out Hezbollah [one of many terrorist groups created to destroy Israel] or be driven into the sea-as Arabs & supporting Muslim States have stated again and again...

Posted by: Morgane at August 5, 2006 5:05 PM

"The world as we know it has 17 days left. After which time, that battle cry shall pick up steam.

BTW, anybody in New York City, should get out before then. All major US cities are a target, but NY is at the top of the list".
Posted by: August22

August, I'm not sure if I want you to be right or wrong, something needs to happen, and it needs to be big....but, my god what did 9.11,7.7,etc do?..it just seemed to create more liberal apologists!
If nothing happens, will you change your name?

Posted by: dhimmiwit at August 5, 2006 5:15 PM

One major aspect of this battle of civilization versus sharia is certainly opening up the floodgates of criticism, especially public criticism, of Islam. Whatever the defenders of sharia throw at us--and they throw everything at us except legitimate argument--we need to barrel forward, "full speed ahead."

"Defend the ship". Whether you are a Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, etc., or on the right or left side of the political spectrum, one thing that we all have in common is that Islam seeks to destroy our ways of life and will destroy us, if necessary, in order to achieve its totalitarian, supremacist goals. I think we all need to defend our beliefs--those which we have examined carefully and have determined are worth defending--vigorously.

Our enemy thinks big. When they attack Israel, they aren't just attacking Israel, they are also making a long-term strategic move against all non-Muslims on earth for the next few generations. They have stated their intentions of world domination explicitly. This is probably dismissed by most in the media because it just sounds like bellicose rhetoric coming from small terrorist outfits that are certainly not, themselves, capable world domination. Most in the media of course do not consider the Islam connection (they do not even know what Islam is) between all these groups; they do not consider the long-term demographic situation (which nearly all Muslims seem to know); and they do not think strategically, long-term, like the jihadists. Most of our journalists who cover politics are thinking maybe two years ahead to the next election.

Most immediately, Hamas, Hizballah, and their backers are playing to influence political opinion in the western countries. They are testing the international community and are examining its fault-lines. They want to create as much hate and division as they can. Islam thrives best under those conditions. They want to preserve the Muslim ummah's "holy hate" as long as they can, until Muslims through demographic jihad finally become the majority in France, Britain, Germany, India, and Russia--all of them nuclear powers--in the later half of this century. (Israel itself may be Muslim majority later in this century). In preparation, the Islamic leadership and the jihadists are helping to foster the increasing division between Europe and the U.S. Islamists know that they cannot defeat the U.S. except by gaining power in Europe and elsewhere. They cannot gain power in Europe except through demographics. Islamic leaders and jihadists have been aware of the effectiveness of the demographic weapon since the beginning of Islam, but this was not revived in recent times as a conscious, explicit strategy until about 4 decades ago. In the meantime, they have increased their influence on European politics through their steady demographic increases, along with their activism.

Islam itself, even with its harsh restrictions including the death penalty for blasphemy and apostasy, cannot sustain itself on its own merits. Therefore Islam's various activists and jihadists are attempting desperately to manufacture as many crises and conflicts as they can (e.g., capturing Israeli soldiers, launching rockets at civilian areas, forcing Israel into no other option but to retaliate or die). These crises are of course fraudulent and have been pre-planned to essentially force or guarantee a sequence of events involving the brutal deaths of a limited number of Muslim civilians for propaganda purposes. This propaganda is then used in conjunction with the usual Islamic teachings, to raise up the Muslim ummah, especially the youngsters, in a culture of hatred toward non-Muslims, especially against those non-Muslims who attempt to resist these various manufactured conflicts. The jihadists are playing to the audience, especially the younger, Muslim audience. As these multitudes of Muslim youngsters of the current and next two to three generations get into power in Europe, there can be little doubt as to how these hate-filled vengeful people will treat the non-Muslims.

Consequently, we need to think big and we need to get others to think big. That means getting people to think about the demographic situation, together with educating them about the ultimate goal of Islam.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 5, 2006 5:26 PM

Watcher,
I also am not happy to see Lebanon bombed, but I am THRILLED to see Hezballah getting killed. If the enemies of civilization dress as civilians and hide among them, then civilians will get hurt, too. If you had been reading more of Hugh's postings, you might actually have an idea of what his views are.

Posted by: William1215 at August 5, 2006 5:27 PM

Watcher, truthfull answers:

What you call an insult, I consider emperical truth. This is an ideological issue, not a racial or personal issue so do not mistake my words for attacks upon you. If you are insulted - either you put up or shut up. How I intend to win is to defeat the very idea that allah even exists.

Does that repulse you?

If people ultimately are going to be murdered in a future nuclear genocide over a god - that god better be more than real. Yet another genocide over another lie is unacceptable. I will be damned if I have to see millions or billions murdered in another ideological war. You had better be right in your beliefs.

Proove with one word your superiority and my "insults" towards your holy puff of smoke will stop.

QUESTION:
If "allah" has created all life, does allah love all his creations?

YES or NO. Go ahead and quote, define why but begin with a YES or NO.

BTW, Choose your words correctly.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 5:34 PM

'Never mind the deathtoll of 960(of which a third are children)to 75, let us stick to our dear little fairy tale world and lets not be annoyed by a little something called common sense."

1. Death tolls are meaningless. Nobody stops a fight simply because they are suffering fewer losses than the enemy. Why should Israel? The low death tolls are a testament to greater concern for the civilians that live there, organization of civil defense, drills, fire departments, investment in infrastructure, you know, all that "socialist infidel civilization" stuff. Hezbollah's civil defense strategy: Allah will protect you in the next life. Hezbollah and the other Bekaa drug kingpins care nothing about people and only about money and jihad in the cause of money. Civilians are propaganda props useful only as fodder and photo ops.

2. Why Lebanon? Very simple. In spite of its democratic progress of past years, Lebanon has failed in the most basic of steps: disarming Hezbollah in accordance with the UN. If Canada hosted Al Quaeda and they were launching attacks from Quebec against Vermont, Americans would not care for a second how civilized, free, and democratic Canada is, they would demand that the Canadians end the AQ attacks. If Hezbollah wishes to remain a political party, then they need to disarm. If they won't disarm, then the Lebanese need to kick them out of government and MAKE them disarm. None of these happened.

Posted by: Abu Lahab at August 5, 2006 5:35 PM

Are you going to destroy Islam by ridicule and slander?

If the adherents of Islam stop making it look foolish we'll stop laughing (and I don't mean stop making it look foolish by killing more people. That just deserves more Cox and Forkum). Actually living up to the current misnomer the "Religon of Peace" might be a good start.

"Power, money, persuasion, supplication, persecution -- these can lift at a colossal humbug -- push it a little; but only laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of laughter nothing can stand."

Locked, loaded, and ready with a clip full of infidel jokes, sir!

Posted by: treehugger at August 5, 2006 5:47 PM

First off, Israel isn't in Lebanon to impose a "murderous Apartheid state". They are pushing back close range rocket batteries that are falling upon their own citizens, both Israelis and Arabs.

Second, before you start swamping this arguement, how about you answer that simple YES or NO question?

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 5:54 PM

You are stalling.

Does allah unconditionally love all his created life.

YES or NO

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 5:59 PM

Watcher,

I don't expect you to get the point or to find us amusing. Though I find humor to be a nice antidote to heartbreaking human stupidity.

Islam has proven it cannot stand against ridicule. People who laugh at Islam must be threatened, attacked and killed, a sign of a deep and abiding insecurity.

Posted by: treehugger at August 5, 2006 6:01 PM

poor watcher, it must be crap to wake up on the wrong side of the bed every morning, knowing islam is such false religion. it was invented by a sick pervert who hacked more heads off people, raped little girls, and his last days on earth was an old man, telling his followers to kill all non-muslims. you cannot compare that to the other worlds's great relgion. muhammud married an older rich widowed woman, yeah was a common gigilo, your freaken prophet was a fake! and you know the 'West, people can read, and the more we learn of your sick cult the few places you muslim butts can land on.
and your brave warriors who hide behind children and women's skirts, they will find themselves in hell.
now if you was to answer the above question, yes or now about your allah, you have nothing to back up your crappy koran.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 5, 2006 6:01 PM

watcher,

Just FYI, the Fadjr is not a Katyusha. It's a modern Iranian (Chinese) artillery rocket. It's much larger (Fadjr-5 is 333mm) than the Israeli 155mm howitzer. The Fadjr-3 and Fadjr-5 out-range any Katyusha by a factor of five or ten, depending on the version.

The Israelis suffer fewer casualties because they dig shelters for civilians, not just jihadis and rockets. Moreover, Israeli soldiers do not build bunkers made out of children.

The Zelzal (also Iranian, based on the Soviet FROG) is even larger than the Fadjr and is a rocket/missile which contains a rudimentary guidance system. Which, of course, the jihadi scumbags aim at civilians.

Bottom line: Muslims make horrible soldiers unless they're attacking women and chidren or hiding under women and children.

You still haven't made a rational argument, other than the factually-incorrect bit I just corrected. But don't worry, as my expectations are very low.

Posted by: Beagle at August 5, 2006 6:03 PM

watcher at time 1:

"Great Archimedes, what a wonderfull piece of nothing."

watcher at time 2:

"Oh by the way, you are right about one thing. We are going to take our country back. It is just a matter of time before Palestinians become the majority again, but hey its a democracy."

In other words, you agree with the general point regarding the demographic jihad.

To Hizballah, those dead Lebanese civilians are just fodder for public relations/propaganda purposes. You may see those civilians as valuable human beings, but Hizballah does not. This is why Hizballah sets up its rocket launchers in civilian buildings. Hizballah wants a certain number of Lebanese civilian casualties.

Israel's choice is this: Allow Hizballah to continue to launch its rockets to kill Israeli civilians, or knock out the rocket launchers and the supply lines and try to minimize civilian casualties (on both sides) in the process. If Israelis were as bad as you imply, they would simply level Hizballah and Hamas--no survivors. No one would stop Israel, and no one has the power to do anything about it. But Israel restrains itself. In fact, Israel is restraining itself to the point where it is endangering the lives of its soldiers and civilians.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 5, 2006 6:08 PM

watcher,

As for Resolution 242, you obviously know nothing about the wording and history of the resolution.

Hint: "territories"

Gaza met the test and what did the jihadi scumbags do? Attack women and kids as usual.

Posted by: Beagle at August 5, 2006 6:08 PM

To bring some humanity into Admiral Farragut's personna, his family and historians cleaned up the Admiral's language, it has been reported that he actualy said, :F**k the torpedoes . . . " Considering how many years he spent in the US Navy, the sanitized version sounds phoney. It's like Grant or Sherman saying ,"War is heck."

There is a small town in Tennessee named after him. The high school's sports teams are the Admirals.

Posted by: Pelayo at August 5, 2006 6:09 PM

"apartheid state"

Like any state ruled by Muslims. Islam never affords equal rights to non-Muslims, and never has.

Saudi Arabia is the Apartheid Kingdom. Israel has Arabs in the Knesset, traitorous Arabs, totally disloyal to the nation which allows them freedom, but Arabs nevertheless.

Posted by: Beagle at August 5, 2006 6:11 PM

watcher,

I'm sorry your jihadi heroes are too stupid to fight wars successfully. Perhaps you should stop trying before we really get angry.

Posted by: Beagle at August 5, 2006 6:13 PM

At least you are truthful. Congradulations, you're the first brave Muslim to admit so.

Allah does not love all his created life. Allah is conditional and therefore places conditions upon his creations. This eliminates free will...yet those conditions can be defeated by free will.

Allah is not absolute and therfore Allah is flawed and false.

By the way, I do not believe in Christ, nor Jehovah nor Allah. It is not Christ or any other incarnation that has so completely condemned the Jews. It is Islam.

Read your Qur'an, I did.

Watcher, your god is not worthy of worship. Your god deserves nothing at all.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 6:19 PM

Speaking of Lebanon, Watcher says, "An educated beautiful people are being killed." But he fails to mention the reason for the slaughter - the presence of hezbollah in the country. The inferior mindset of islamic men that causes them to hide behind women and children and play the victim is causing the misery. Human advancement and freedom diminishes as islam becomes dominant. The followers of islam contribute nothing, but rather take everything from the society they are allowed to infect. †

Posted by: Kreuzueber Halbmond at August 5, 2006 6:19 PM

Watcher, it would help if the Hezbullies didn't place their rocket sites right next to those poor noncombatants. But worth it for some nice propaganda pics, no?

Funny, since I hear so much about the Arab concept of "honor", one would think that this tactic would be unthinkable.

Nice point on the demographic jihad.
Cuts right through the complaints to the ultimate intent, which is to use democracy as a tool to install a Muslim state (as usual). Want to be that "democracy" after that point will mean Islamic law?

Of course, the IDF is interfering in your plans a bit, are they not? No wonder you're complaining.

Posted by: treehugger at August 5, 2006 6:20 PM

watcher we cannnot help it when hezbollah/hammas cowards hide behind women and children. Israel has shcwn so much restraint, l do not know of any country under constant attack would have so much control. the koran is a book of cruelty inflicted on humanity by brain dead muslims. my God loves all his creations. do you know the last words on the cross spoken by Jesus, who died a very young man?
"Forgive them "Father" for they know not what they are doing" you compare that to what you monster muhammud lived out his very old sorry ass life. instead of venting out your anger on us infidels, take it on your cult you call islam, it is the one making you go crazy, as it goes against everything that is good in humanity. keep reading, compare the books of your islam to other religions, then you will leave islam and become a human being again. Jesus will forgive your sins, and you do not have to kill people for it.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 5, 2006 6:22 PM

I love the islamic trolls like Watcher. I love it when they get angry. Especially when they can't do anything about what is making them angry. To a muslim, that is torture. Allah demands revenge and they can't get it. So they have failed Allah.

Fortunately for them, Allah doesn't exist, but they don't know that.

Strap on a belt Watcher, and go blow yourself up. It's the only way out of this dilemma.

Posted by: August22 at August 5, 2006 6:22 PM

One last comment and off to lunch for me...

It is not so much the battles we see but the war most do not see. If making your "god" a soft target is the only thing you understand, then this is exactly where we will hit Islam until the violence stops. Sorry if you are truly innocent Watcher but in war there will be casualties. After all we have now seen, read and heard, your god is not worth worship but targeting.

Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 5, 2006 6:26 PM

Robert-

As I read your comment re Farragut, I thought of U.S. Grant's appointment (March 9, 1864) by President Lincoln to command all of the armies of the United States. At Grant's first war council (the Army of the Potomac) he listened patiently as field commander after field commander recounted what Robert E.Lee was likely to do to the Union forces. Grant finally spoke and told them he wasn't concerned about what Lee planned on doing to the Union army, but he told them "Bobby Lee is going to be concerned about what we are going to do to his Confederate forces."

Grant hit and hit Lee for a year until the Army of Northern Virginia unconditionally surrendered in April 1865. In the first month, Grant's Army suffered terrible casualties, but he pressed on and on until Lee was crushed. That's what Israel must do with with Hezbollah, what must be done with the mullahs in Iran. They must be destroyed or else they will do to Isreal that which Arab Muslims do in Darfur. And it will not stop with Israel.

FROM A STATEMENT OF LOSSES COMPILED IN THE ADJUTANT-GENERAL’S OFFICE.

FIELD OF ACTION AND DATE. KILLED. WOUNDED. MISSING. AGGREGATE.
Wilderness, May 5th to 7th 2,261 8,785 2,902 13,948
Spottsylvania, May 8th to 21st 2,271 9,360 1,970 13,601
North Anna, May 23d to 27th 186 792 165 1,143
Totopotomoy, May 27th to 31st 99 358 52 509
Cold Harbor, May 31st to June 12th 1,769 6,752 1,537 10,058
Total 6,586 26,047 6,626 39,259

http://www.bartleby.com/1011/56.html

Posted by: Frank at August 5, 2006 6:28 PM

First Michel Butor, now Robert Spencer. The Mobile Chamber of Commerce wishes to thank Jihad Watch for this unwonted, but wanted, attention.

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 6:31 PM

Watcher
From your posts one can glean you are a Muslim of Palestinian descent living in Britain.
Difference between the Totalitarian Death Cult of Islam and Judeo Christianity is that the former directs its followers to KILL apostates and Infidels[Unbelievers].Also the character of Muhammed is so reprehensible that do not know of another religious figure of such evil character unless one wants to equate Odin-where warriors also went to afterlife able to feast all day [pork],fight and shag innumerable women...
I am an Agnostic myself : if Christian posters say they PRAY I may be CONVERTED, they will never want to SLAY me if I don't accept Christianity.
Your mindset alas,belongs to the 7th century
where you would have the rest of us go back to barbarous laws & worshipping a meteorite.
Welcome to the modern World my friend, where religion has been divorced from the secular for 500 years. Get with it, be like the Jews and other Infidels, revel in freedom of thought and progress because BUMS UP FIVE TIMES A DAY IN THE MOST SERVILE WAY AIN'T GONNA' GET YOU ANYTHING BUT A FUNNY PHOTO...I smile every time I
see another 'Bottoms Up' and wonder what happens to the flatulent among you. Oh yes, we Infidels dare to laugh...even at ourselves sometimes.

Posted by: Morgane at August 5, 2006 6:31 PM

watcher:

"Never mind that Israel brutally occupied Lenbanon for 18 years, that Israel has a human rights records as bad anything can be possibly be and that Lebanese prisoners still rott in its prisons.Its ofcourse a diversion."

Actually, at least since the early 1980s, Lebanon has allowed Hizballah to roam free, launching rockets at Israeli civilians, killing American soldiers, as well as killing Israeli civilians abroad. This again leaves Israel no other choice but to do the job that the Lebanese government and population refuse to do, namely, rein in Hizballah. But a significant minority of the Lebanese support Hizballah and have no problem at all with Hizballah slaughtering as many civilians as possible.

Human rights record? Israel is dealing with terrorists who force their hand. As I said, Israel's option is not really an option at all: Defend themselves or die. (And since when does Islam have anything to do with human rights? In Islam, what we now call human rights are all considered mischief against Allah).

I didn't say it was a diversion. The attacks, for the Muslim audience, are supplementary multi-media Koran and Sunnah lessons, to prepare young minds to be filled with hate, and to solidify in the person the fundamental concept of Muslim / non-Muslim division. This "holy hate"--their term, not mine--is to be sustained until Islam attains a majority in Europe and elsewhere.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 5, 2006 6:32 PM

Dear Hugh,

Michel Butor, of course, but one mustn't forget Bob Dylan's seminal monograph, "Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again."

Yrs
Robert

Posted by: jihadwatch at August 5, 2006 6:35 PM

Death toll counts from above (a long way above...): regarding the reported "960", how many of those corpses were actually killed by the IDF? A quick refresher on the case of young Mohamad al-Dura (http://www.masada2000.org/al-dura.html) strongly shouts that the true IDF-induced numbers are much, much lower and that the hizbulla/palastinian propaganda machinery is busily churning out more lies as usual....

Posted by: oregonjack at August 5, 2006 6:42 PM

This thread's initial theme has degraded as usual,into another personal attack among contributors, and while the overriding question, the gorilla in the room if you will,

" The Quest of Islam to Demand Submission of Everyone Else, and When Submission is Repulsed, Islam Kicks, Screams and Gyrates",

is paramount in the sides' arguments, it has devolved into this.

Watcher, your feckless tirade itself is the basest argument of words only, not those of the other peace loving and correct contributors herein. Your own written words have proven to bite you and Islam in the butts. "No, why should he? Should he love those who kill or tyrants?" Do you imply that "it" loves those who will fire rockets from, then hide among women and children, are "it's" Fearless fighters for Islam?
I pity you, really, for your inhibited and inculcated beliefs, and your predisposed inability to think and decide for yourself, a God given ability afforded to the the rest of mankind. It is the deepest desire of Islam for the Earth to be under 9th Century, submissive, abitrary rule of thumb.
That is not to be allowed, you misguided and pathetic fool-ower of a satanic cult. The more advanced, the more civilized nations of the world only await your poorly conceived, last and best shot, before you are entirely put down with a war you will only watch briefly, in sheer awe of its gravity.

Posted by: localmalcontent at August 5, 2006 6:46 PM

Hezbollah executes 18 Lebanese Christians & Druze for exposing Hezbollah hideouts

Iran Press News: Translation by Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi.

The Islamic regime-run news agency ILNA’s reported: "18 Israeli spies, from the port city of SOOR, located in southern Lebanon were executed. The German News Agency reported that those executed by a firing squad were accused [by Hezbollah militia] of espionage for Israel. According to the report in the German press, the foreign nationals who had were boarding ships organized for their evacuation from Lebanon, were present at the time of the executions. Dr. Boris Bok, a Munich physician told the German media that he witnessed a number of the Lebanese resistance fighters [who opposed Hezbollah] be charged with aiding the Israelis in air strikes and were therefore brought to the firing squads. The German physician and other German nationals who were transferred from Lebanon to Cyprus clearly stated that they saw everything as it happened; the witnesses said that the people who were executed had also divulged location of the houses of the Hezbollah terrorists to the Israeli air force.”

Posted by: treehugger at August 5, 2006 7:04 PM

Two can play that game. But, alas, only one of us can win. And I'm plumb tuckered out. This time, I'll concede.

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 7:10 PM

As Dave's Den pointed out in a previous thread, Lebanon's westernized areas are miniscule compared to the general population. Watcher, I've been lurking and learning here an awful long time. I've yet to see an argument from anyone espousing Islamic viewpoints that can hold a candle in the debate, from either a rhetoric or factual standpoint.

I have been thinking in the last couple of weeks, why don't Islamic countries have navies? Why was America such a threat in 1801? Why do Islamic apologist sites write false and cherry-picked histories? Why is al-Jazeera such a funny and sad place to visit?

What would it be like if I were afraid every single day of my life that someone would beat me or kidnap my husband or threaten my children because they control my life and my freedoms have been usurped? I would act like you, I think.

As a total tangent, we were watching "V Is For Vendetta" last night. I wasn't thrilled about watching it going in because I abhor the idea of terrorism being glamorized. Later in the movie I realized the unintentional parallels the Wachovia brothers had made: they were trying to say that Western societies were on their way to fascism and that the people must rise up and take them back. What they actually showed was the Islamic fascist states of today: the abject fear and decimation of its citizenry. Then, in the movie, the people rise up. But I have been hard pressed to find places other than Iraq where the people rise up. I am here to learn the answers to these questions.

Watcher, if you were in the society you hope to achieve in Lebanon, the one that you aspire to when the Palestinians "become the majority again", you would not have access to this web site any longer. That would not mean we have gone away. We would just be planning (again) another way to free you and make it so you can post here again.

Please try to help us understand why Islam is better than no Islam. I await a reasoned response that relies on a prima facia case for Islam, and not a political screed.

I look forward to being part of this community.

Posted by: winoceros at August 5, 2006 7:12 PM

Or, to be more precise, our culture of rationality suffers from being enthralled by the dominant paradigm of PC multiculturalism. (See my latest blog essay on this by clicking my name below.)Posted by remote control

Great sentiments but problematical as reason and belief cannot reside in the same mind.

Reason is antithetical to belief, belief exists in defiance of reason.

And what proportion of the Muslim world are believers? 100%

Of the western world, especially the U.S. of A? 80%?

We are thus doomed.

Posted by: Nariz at August 5, 2006 7:16 PM

Previewing your Comment
If anyone wants to see what intelligent courage can achieve against apparently overwhelming odds, let them study, from a purely military standpoing, Garibaldi's astounding campaign of May-October 1860 in southern Italy, from the apparently crazy (but really supremely competent) decision to send his outnumbered and out-armed volunteers charging straight uphill at the enemy (but the hill was terraced, each step providing cover for the attackers as they came on in short sharp rushes; result, they were practically covered all the way to the top), to the final strategic triumph at the Volturno River, where 20,000 volunteers outmanouvered 50,000 committed and tenacious enemies. Garibaldi consistently out-thought, outmanoeuvered and, where necessary, outfought the enemy. He kept his eye to the front line, stopped panicking troops by his own presence, and directed reserves where they would be most needed. He played notorious tricks like shooting a few muskets in an echoing valley to make the sound like hundreds, but he also knew when to commit everything he had to a man-to-man melee. But the point is, all his daring, even occasional gambling, and his speed of manoeuvre and belief in attack, were based in the fact that he believed in the cause he fought for, and he knew that every last one of his volunteers did so as well. He knew that he could trust them to risk their lives for freedom, individually and collectively. The generals he opposed had no such confidence, and though their troops remained brave and willing to the end, they themselves failed: they did not have the moral strength to endure doubt or defeat. After the battle of Volturno, they still outnumbered and outgunned Garibaldi's men - but when their king asked them to go back to the offensive (and their troops would have loved to, as well), they refused. They lacked backbone. And this is the difference. When free men come to grips with tyrannies, that is always the extra soldier in the field: the moral convinction and personal commitment of a soldier from a free country. Pericles, in the speech Thucydides ascribes him, said the same thing 2400 years ago. Nothing has changed since.

Posted by: Paolo at August 5, 2006 7:26 PM

Watcher Who? I don't see his post.

Posted by: champ at August 5, 2006 9:14 PM

POV INFIDELS:

CLEMENZA

"Come over here, kid, learn something. You never know, you might have to cook for twenty guys someday. You see, you start out with a little bit of oil. Then you fry some garlic. Then you throw in some tomatoes, tomato paste, you fry it; ya make sure it doesn't stick. You get it to a boil; you shove in all your sausage and your meatballs; heh?... And a little bit o' wine. An' a little bit o' sugar, and that's my trick.

SONNY (after entering the kitchen)

Why don't you cut out the crap. I got more important things for you to do.

(then)

How's Paulie?

CLEMENZA

Oh, Paulie? Won't see him no more...

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 9:48 PM

Hugh sounds like a boring meal, l mean just tomato,oil, and some sausage/meatballs? cant forget the garlic, but then if your cooking for twenty guys, they most likely dont much difference. just keep the wine flowing... yuck

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 5, 2006 10:19 PM

Well, don't stay for supper then. And remember: Take your gun. Leave the cannoli.

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 10:28 PM

you could improve the dinner with some home made pasta, add a few piece of hot pepper, basil, taragon, and things would spice up.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 5, 2006 10:33 PM

I don't think I'm making myself clear.

Posted by: Hugh at August 5, 2006 10:54 PM

does not surprise me in the least, Cdn sometimes are too subtle for their own good, l am told.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 5, 2006 10:59 PM

Ginro and others, This is not a battle cry but it is one of my favorite quotes. From Adm. William F. Halsey, "I will not rest until the Japanese language is spoken only in Hell." We can change that to the obvious concerning the Arabic language. He also said that a good Japanese was one who has been dead for six months. Halsey was a great Naval officer, but is hatred of the Japanese got in the way of his better judgement during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

Also, it was either Sheridan or Sherman who replied, when asked about killing Indian children, "Nits make lice." That was said to a reporter. Imagine that happening now. We have sunk into language googledygook where everyone is afraid to speak their minds for fear of being figuratively or even literally crucified.

Our nation (US) desperately needs some courageous people in the Whitehouse and Congress.

Posted by: Pelayo at August 5, 2006 11:01 PM

Crusader battlecry: 'Kill them all and let god decide'

Posted by: albion at August 5, 2006 11:09 PM

albion

"Crusader battlecry:"

"Kill them all. God will know his own."

(Allegedly) spoken outside Beziers (add your own aigu), France. They slaughtered every man, woman, and child in the tiny town. Not just the mostly harmless Cathars, but Catholics as well. It's infamous, not famous.

Posted by: Beagle at August 5, 2006 11:40 PM

Archimedes and Everyone,

We should not bother trumpeting the false Islamic prophecy of demographic doom. In many places this is either overblown or outright false. The looming Arab majority in Israel is a hoax; you can read about this at www.pademographics.com. This study has had a very big effect on the debate, with good reason. The Arab fertility rate is declining everywhere.

Similarly, the Muslim rate of growth in India is nowhere near the rate needed to become the majority anytime soon. At current rates this will take until the 2300's, and present trends have a way of not continuing. Britain has 1.7m Muslims out of over 60m. It is a problem, but not yet forboding doom. Resolute nations like Denmark, Netherlands and Germany have all but stopped Muslim immigration. In these countries the Muslim fertility rate, while higher than the rest, are declining, as they are in France. There is still a demographic threat but it is managable if these nations rationalize their immigration policies, which thankfully is slowly occurring.

I am not saying the demographic issue is not cause for concern, but the end is not yet near, even for Israel. Muslims love triumphalism, but usually it is just hot air. The greatest thing we have to fear is fear of Islam and Muslims.

Posted by: Quijybo at August 6, 2006 12:42 AM

Morgane writes: I smile every time I
see another 'Bottoms Up' and wonder what happens to the flatulent among you.

Here's a recent post from sonja at Faithfreedom.org forum:

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: muslim farting practices
Some illuminating quotes from Bukari's/Muslim's hadiths-

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The prayer of a person who does Hadjat (passes urine, stool or wind) is not accepted till he performs (repeats) the ablution." A person from Hadaramout asked Abu Huraira, "What is 'Hadjat'?" Abu Huraira replied, " Hadjat means the passing of wind from the anus."

Narrated Abbas bin Tamim:
My uncle asked Allah's Apostle about a person who imagined to have passed wind during the prayer. Allah' Apostle replied: "He should not leave his prayers unless he hears a report or smells something."

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, "The prayer of a person breaks(brakes?) by breaking of wind from the anus." Once, after beans were served in walima feast at prophet’s house the isha prayer took two hours because prophet and all namazis were breaking prayer and making wudu (stone cleaning) repeatedly. Disruption was also caused by the namazis laughing out loud every time some one farted. Prophet had to finally turn around and stop them.

From Muslim:B40N6837
Prophet advised in regard to people laughing at each other’s passing wind from anus and said: ‘You laugh at that which you yourself do.’”
(This is the nearest you can get to an Islamic version of "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you - Sonja)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earnest Question 1: How and why does one "imagine to have farted"? Ans: Hey man, you could never tell with Mohmad - and he loved his slaves doing a little weasly taqqiya practice on him - never harmed anyone did it? ..heheh..

Earnest Question 2: What about the others sitting in the vicinity? Can they leave too on some pretext or are they obliged to sit through the headchurning emissions?
Ans: Tho the Hadith is silent on this - the poor bastards have to sit it out I guess. Please consult your local mulla and put him in a spin.

Earnest Question 3: It says that after the beanfest farting among the namazis, the "Prophet had to finally turn around and stop them." How did he do that?
Ans: Doesn't the Hadith clearly say he had to "turn around", ie face away from them? How much more explicit can one get than that?

Read more on muslim hygiene at: http://politicalincorrectblog.com/2006/05/03/use-of-islamic-knowledge-of-health-and-hygiene-is-a-must-for-all-muslims/

Posted by: Dunk at August 6, 2006 3:26 AM

Quijybo,

Thanks for the link to the Israeli stats. I'll include that in my file. Certainly one must be cautious in gazing into the crystal ball re demographic trends.

One difficulty re Israeli stats: I haven't seen all the reports yet, but those which I've seen indicate that the "Arab" fertility rates are declining. I suspect that the means are pulled down because of Christian Arabs' low fertility rates. It is the Muslim fertility rates that are of interest. The fertility rates don't need to be increasing, they just need to be higher than replacement and higher than the non-Muslim rates.

I will note this: If any country in the world is likely to take deliberate measures to prevent a Muslim majority from occuring, it is Israel.

Europe is a completely different story. Even if all European countries stopped Muslim immigration cold (which they probably will not do), the simple fact of the matter is that each generation of native Europeans is about half the size of the previous (i.e., the native European population will decline drastically if present trends hold), while each generation of Muslims in Europe will approximately double in size. In other words, each Muslim generation in Europe will be about quadruple the size of each native European generation. Also, the European population is older than the Muslim European population.

Another factor to keep in mind when dealing with projections, including those that say Muslim fertility rates will decline, is that these projections are based on including certain assumptions and excluding other assumptions. For example, declines in fertility rates among Muslims in the west are often assumed because assimilation is assumed. (E.g., the Muslim women will get more education, will take up careers, and have less children than they otherwise would). But Muslims generally don't assimilate in Europe. They maintain their cultural traditions. The projections also do not take into account that many Muslims are keenly aware of the demographic situation and are deliberately having large families; and they are advised to do so by their imams and their religious texts (i.e., they are engaged in demographic jihad). Still other factors include the so-called 'imported brides', whereby Muslim men will bring in multiple wives from other countries, marrying each one and then divorcing her according to secular laws, but remaining married to all of them in Islamic marriage, and having children with all of them. There are all sorts of Islamic factors such as this that those making projections do not take into account.

I have examined the CIA fertility rates statistics, and according to my informal and rather rough approximations, the fertility rate in Muslim-majority countries is on average 4.07. This gives us a good baseline by which to judge Muslim fertility rates generally.

Regarding India, I won't comment until I've seen some other stats. But last time I checked, Muslim fertility rates are once again higher than Hindu fertility rates. And once again, because of the Islam-ideological factor that the projectionists may not be taking into account (i.e., cultural traditions, as well as deliberate demographic jihad in some cases), Muslim fertility rates may not drop, or may not drop as much, as non-Muslim fertility rates.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 6, 2006 3:31 AM

Chef Hugh frets --

"I don't think I'm making myself clear."

Posted by: Zeno at August 6, 2006 5:03 AM

Robert writes --

"Practically everyone in the world wants to come live in the West, and the Western intelligentsia is energetically dismantling everything that makes them want to come here..."

If a cure for the West's Liberal Immune Deficiency Syndrome can be found, then an effective resistance to Islamic invasion will be possible.

Posted by: Zeno at August 6, 2006 5:18 AM

I understand that the scuffle with "Watcher" was off topic but why exactly were his or her comments removed?

Shouldn't the whole readership of this site be allowed examination of the arguement above as well?

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 6, 2006 12:19 PM

Up to a point. The value of seeing the quality of thought and kind of argument must be weighed against the amount of distraction a particular troll causes. A handful of posts is one thing; 13-14 on a single thread by such a troll, and then the lengthy replies by others, get things off-track. This is not Hyde Park Corner.

Posted by: Hugh at August 6, 2006 3:38 PM

Hugh

In that case, can the various replies to the deleted items be deleted as well, just so that people who are reading this late aren't left wondering what the various posters are talking about? It's not a slight to the various posters, it just avoids confusing someone, who'd otherwise wonder about the refutation to an apparant canard that's been deleted.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 7, 2006 1:20 AM

In WWII, both sides together (Axis and Allies) spent $10 trillion on arms, etc., adjusted to present for inflation (factor of 10).

Islam has, since 1970, harvested a tax of $10 trillion in oil revenues from the West. It has used this bonanza to finance 1) armed jihad and 2) massive immigration (legal and illegal) into western countries.

Islam is thus preparing for a war against the West with an intensity equal to the efforts of both sides combined in WWII. This might suggest that the West should be diligently mobilizing on the scale of both Allied and Axis powers together in WWII. But whereas Islam is investing heavily in arms (including WMD) and is jihading in some 20 odd countries already, the West is largely behaving like Neville Chamberlain did in 1938. “ We have here a paper signed by Mr. Hitler…we will have peace in our time...”

In all the history of warfare in the West, I do not believe there are many case of a country allowing its potential foe to populate itself with enemy families which in turn facilitate the internal growth of Trojan horse populations. This is a strategy against the West for which there is little precedence. And we should note that a very significant part of the $10 trillion has already gone into this effort. They have told us that they will defeat us with the product of Muslim uteruses. But the pagan elites of both Europe and America pooh-pooh this danger, still enamored with the Chamberlain way.

It is time for the West to get on a war footing. It is time to enumerate and monitor the thousands of Trojan horses and their occupants in the West (mosques, Islamic “centers”, friendship societies, etc.), and to become ready to neutralize them in the event of a major attack. It is time to prepare detention camps for incarceration of fanatics until the “end of hostilities”, which may take a few generations.

It is time to suspend the “guns and butter” economy we are doing now and mobilize to a full “guns” economy. We need to re-arrange our strategic objectives accordingly. Instead of bringing democracy to Islam, we must focus on destruction of fanatical Islam.

Israel is at the forefront of the West’s war for survival. The West led by the US should commit to full support with boots on the ground to Israel as soon as possible.

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at August 7, 2006 2:03 AM

Jimmy Bones
Well said! Indeed, it would make theb greatest sense to ship out the islamic crap back to where it came from . It's probably too late to do so in Eurabia, busy looking on in benign senility while its house is being robbed in plain daylight, but the US still has a chance.. and the time is running out for it too.

Posted by: Dunk at August 7, 2006 3:54 AM

"This is not Hyde Park Corner."

Got it Hugh. Either defeat these trolls words within one post and shut them down in spectacular fashion or don't engage at all.

No prob.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 7, 2006 10:19 AM