"I have the highest respect for Islam"

Would he like to proffer a couple of good readons as to why?

Posted by: Uriel Septim at August 27, 2006 7:38 AM

"I have the highest respect for Islam ... but it was something we felt we had to do because they had the guns and we didn't know what the hell was going on."

Memo to Mr. Centanni: maybe now you have the highest UNDERSTANDING of Islam. Perhaps you also know what's "going on", that is, there is a transnational Islamic inspired jihad against you and everyone on this planet who is not Muslim or not Muslim enough. And hopefully you understand that, although your gainful employment with a large media outlet provides you with social status in the US, it does not amount to a hill or hijabs in the middle east and elsewhere. You are simply another target for these vermin. It's great news that you're released. But please don't assail us with stories of the magnanimity of your captors or regale us with praise for the religion of peace. Puke.

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 27, 2006 7:39 AM

Piecefool Religion Indeed.

This very same story has been oft repeated throughout the Indian subconitinent - historians have lost count or rather conveniently brush such things under the carpet. Aurangzeb - held in highest esteem by the Muslims and - conversely, hated by Hindus for no reason other than 'offering hidus to be honoured with Islam' .... Guru Tegh Bahadur - the Sikh Guru and his disciples gave up thier life to defend the Hindus.

Sat Sri Akal. [Peace always Triumps]
Jo Bole So Nihal.

Posted by: binge_drinking_pig at August 27, 2006 7:42 AM

"I have the highest respect for Islam ..."

Oh, for Pete's sake! What the hell does it take anymore?!

With my big mouth, I can only imagine what fraction of a second I'd live after telling these vermin where to stick their koran, sociopathic "prophet", and his sock puppet god.

Actually, I'd probably shehada-dada like an old pro.

But you sure as hell wouldn't hear me saying that I "respect" their filthy ideology when they no longer had their guns pointed at my head.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 7:43 AM

Well, this has to be one of the most cowardly things I have heard in a very long time.

Really despicable behavior.

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 7:46 AM

Now that's he's Muslim I hope they give him the full body cavity search at JFK when he gets back to the states! You never know!!! Let's see if he refuses a drink on the flight on the way back. "Martini, Mr. Centanni?" "No ma'am, I'll stick with the Allah special: one glass of date juice with a sprig of fig and 72 ice cubes." LALALALALALALALALAALALLA

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 27, 2006 7:49 AM

Oh yeah, Mr. Centanni?

When you were hangin' out with your new respectable homies, did you happen to hear anything about the other "guest" currently partaking of palestinian arab "hospitality"?

Cpl. Gilad Shalit?
Remember him?

I do.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 7:50 AM

Does anyone think they've secretly exchanged John Walker Lindh and John Allen Muhammad for these guys? I wonder if Pelosi cut the deal... she cares so deeply for Al-Lindhabbib.

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 27, 2006 7:52 AM

I know this is impolitic to say, If Islam is indeed The Religion of Peace, then where are the universal condemnations coming from Muslims in public on this forced conversion? (Cricket, Cricket)

Posted by: Thunder Pig at August 27, 2006 7:58 AM

From FOX: ‘Palestinians who helped achieve their release.’ ‘Mobbed by Palestinian groups to wish them well.’ Smiling pictures of Hamas and Centanni. Not a negative word about the kidnappers. ‘Nothing against Islam.’ ‘Highest regard for them.’ 'Treated with the utmost respect and hospitality.'

Lets hope that this was part of the negotiated settlement. And that Centanni and FOX renege and come clean on the deal once he’s clear of the vermin.

And the latest: 'This strange splinter group.'

Posted by: limes at August 27, 2006 8:04 AM

I bet they were lobotomized. Nobody in their right mind would adopt a death cult as their chosen "religion".

Posted by: idontslam at August 27, 2006 8:06 AM

Re: Freed Fox reporters: we were forced to convert to Islam

We may see the Stockholm Syndrome at work with these victims.

The use of force is the ultimate abandonment of reason in logical argument. This kind of thinking, on any large scale, will result in a culture of violence, and probably in the end a culture of mass suicide in a denial of reality.

Forced acceptance of a belief-system must create a culture of public hypocrisy in which few have the courage to practically solve pressing societal problems. Boris Yelsin once noted that the enforced conformity of the Soviet System (I think he said "We became a society of hypocrites")was lethal to creative thinking in the USSR.

I dislike organized religion, though I understand the human needs it addresses. But I note that Jesus never condemned a sinner, he condemned hypocrisy. Deceit is corrosive to our sense of reality, to what is truly in our self interest. Our minds are made to deal with reality in this world, to deal with facts and truth. That is why we humans are so bothered by the question Why? We can't really rest until we provide ourselves with answers our questions. We must know facts, truth. Hypocrisy is our adversary in that.

Islam is a religion of hypocrisy and force, it promotes the abandonment of the faculties of reason that God created in our minds. Islam is a labyrinth of deceit and self-deceit.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20030324.html

Posted by: Frank at August 27, 2006 8:07 AM

I hope these two journalists realize that now that they have converted, they won't be allowed to change their minds and leave Islam. After all, the punishment for apostasy is death.

Posted by: lakeside at August 27, 2006 8:13 AM

Isn't lying and deceit part of Islam?

Perhaps these guys only converted due to the gun and video camera in their face, the uncertainty of their future....

Perhaps they thought if they lied about it for a while to get out of their hands, they might live. If anybody understands "acting" these guys would. The islamos might have been tricked by one of their own "holy" edicts of deceit.

We will see if these reporters actually stay "converted".

Posted by: alert-up-usa at August 27, 2006 8:19 AM

"No, those jeans don't make your butt look big."
"Delicious meatloaf, mom."
"Yeah, mom and dad, straight A's this semester."
"Only one glass of wine with dinner, officer."

See? It ain't so hard.

"Yeah, yeah. No god but allah and mohammed is his prophet. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Sure, sure, I mean it. Now will you quit pointing that lovely assault rifle at me?"

But that respecting islam crap after being released? Even I wouldn't be able to tell that whopper.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 8:23 AM

"I have the highest respect for Islam ." are these two clowns for real, or are they still held at gunpoint until they get their butts out of the mid east?
l saw the newsclips this morning of the two reporters being released to the PA officials, and the reporters looked terrified. You heard all day yesterday from Abbas how "he" was promised that the Fox reporters would not be harmed. you see its not for the safety of the reporters, but pa muslims need reporters to spread their lies. The muslim Palis need the media more than we need them. so that is why media is their "sared cow". The Israeli and US governments should do is kick out all media for a few months. see how the palis scream more.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 27, 2006 8:26 AM

Once they leave the country, I think their story will change.

Since Islam is not a religion, but a doctrine based upon false theology which supports domination and destruction... these guys have not agreed to anything religious or spiritual.

It is the same as POWs confessing to "crimes" and "love for their captors". Once home, and out of the clutch of the enemy do you really think the POWs were communists?

I think we need to give these guys a break, until we see them either continue to support Islam once home, or return to their former belief systems and denounce their conversions.

Posted by: alert-up-usa at August 27, 2006 8:27 AM

The gospel writer Matthew was once a gangster-tax collector (they were extortionists who tax-farmed, they broke people's legs, and skimmed off the top. But they met the money number.). Jesus must have known Matthew was no hypocrite when Jesus called him.

Matthew 23-Some of what Jesus says re deceit, hypocrisy:

23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.

24 You blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel!

25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and unrighteousness.

26 You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the platter, that its outside may become clean also.

27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Posted by at August 27, 2006 08:46 AM

Posted by: Frank at August 27, 2006 8:48 AM

You can all relax they are no more muslim than I am. They went through a tragic event and were forces by muslims to forcible convert. As soon as normal people convince them they are safe the conversion will go right out the window. It takes time to recover from the mental abuse they went through. The one thing they have not addressed is switching back to whatever religion they really belong to will cause a death penalty from the muslims. Once in the cult you are in it for life, forced or not. Hopefully, positions, as news people will be high enough of a profile to protect them. Still if they tell too many negative stories about the experience they remain at risk. You can bet the kidnappers now know their addresses and details of their daily lives, wives, children, schools, you get the idea.

Posted by: Ronin at August 27, 2006 9:03 AM

Guys,

please, let's remember that they had to speak like that because they were UNDER SERIOUS THREAT TO BE KILLED.

It's too easy for us who are sitting in our homes to assume that they shouldn't have said what they said.

What if we experienced such a horrible experience? Would we say - while terrorists have their guns aimed at our heads - "Islam is a shit religion?"

Of course we wouldn't. Please, try to understand that the experience Centanni went through is not one of the best he has ever went through.

Yes, Islam is not a religion of peace, quite the opposite, as Robert writes.

BUT, in order to come out alive from a kidnapping, one is forced to lie and speak what he/she really doesn't think. So, Centanni has not converted to Islam. He said that in order to be freed.

Is this too hard to understand?

Posted by: stefania at August 27, 2006 9:16 AM

Folks, you need to chill. I would gladly "convert" to get a loaded gun away from my skull, knowing I was just a short flight back to sanity where I could renounce my conversion safely.

Posted by: kamala at August 27, 2006 9:24 AM

I doubt Centanni and Wiig will stay muslim any longer than it takes to get to civilization. Maybe they will report how vile and treacherous this cult REALLY is. Maybe he will come out and refute the old saying, "religion of peace". Of course they wouldn't be able to stay in the middle east after that.

Posted by: freewoman at August 27, 2006 9:25 AM

This is silly. I'm glad the survived this experience and commend them for keeping a cool head under the circumstances. They were not "forced to convert", they were "forced to declare the muslim oath at gun point." Hell, I'll tell you my name is Mabel, if you stick a gun in my face, but I won't change my driver's license after the gun is gone. I advise these gents to go home, have a beer and a bbq pulled-pork samich, turn on women's beach vollyball, and thank whatever god they beleive in, if any, for living in a civilized country where all these things are availible.

What is odd, is how can anyone beleive that a threat of death will get a man to honestly change his religious convictions? It just goes to show how backward these people are.

Posted by: ryoga at August 27, 2006 9:28 AM

Re: "You can all relax they are no more muslim than I am."

I think you are right. But what vicious bastards would do this to them, force them to accept a belief-system, make them hypocrites in order to save their lives? I have nothing but contempt for these ignorant Islamic clowns who make people submit to their demented belief system. The silence of the Islamic clowns can be heard everywhere re this.

I probably would have done the same thing that they have had to do to save their lives. But afterward, I would hate the bastards who made me violate my self-respect and code of honor.

Posted by: Frank at August 27, 2006 9:39 AM

Although I agree some here have been a little rough on Steve and Olaf, you need to back up and re-read Ronin's post at #261897.

In the minds of their captors and potentially a billion or so more, they are Muslim now.

How would you like to have that hanging over your head for the rest of your life? Did they know that when they said the shahada, gun point or not? Do they know it now?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at August 27, 2006 10:09 AM

WEll, no one forced them to say that "the Palestinian poeple are a very kind people, etc."

I have heard this before from journalist kidnapped by these "kind" people.

These animals are not even kind to their own kind.

As for their saying they "converted" it doesn't suprise me. Another pair of spinelss jounralists spoiled babies who think they can talk themselves out of and into anything.

Posted by: scribe10 at August 27, 2006 10:30 AM

WEll, no one forced them to say that "the Palestinian poeple are a very kind people, etc."

I have heard this before from journalist kidnapped by these "kind" people.

These animals are not even kind to their own kind.

As for their saying they "converted" it doesn't suprise me. Another pair of spinelss jounralists spoiled babies who think they can talk themselves out of and into anything.

Posted by: scribe10 at August 27, 2006 10:31 AM

This is the theatre of the absurd. These guys will say anything to stay alive until they are out of there. They are forced to tell obvious lies as cheap Hamas propaganda for the dhimmi suckers in the West.

Posted by: johndoe at August 27, 2006 10:33 AM

I'm so glad Steve Centanni and his cameraman are free. His forced conversion mollified the Muhammadans enough to set him free. I would do the same. I would say their Shahada to get out of their clutches.

Muslim oaths are not binding on me because the whole religion is phony and based on the ravings of false prophet Muhammad

Posted by: dennisw at August 27, 2006 10:43 AM

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1690675/posts

Throughout the article, the writer refers to the Arabs as stupid, hypocrite, and uncivilized. in a separate clause, Ben-Zvi refers to Muhammad as a false prophet.

The affair was first revealed in the Israeli-Arab newspaper Kul al-Arab, which quoted the article. According to Adalah, the article is packed with severe racial incitement, slander, and insults to the religious sensitivities of the Muslims living in Israel.

In the article, published in the ultra-Orthodox newspaper "Hassidic World", author Yitzhak Ben-Zvi writes that "the Arabs are a people similar to donkeys… they are a vile nation of savages… they have a great desire to murder and are even worse than the Nazi enemy."

Posted by: dennisw at August 27, 2006 10:45 AM

First of all, I'm glad they are free. Take the next flight home, and other than Israel, to all FNC journos, don't operate in that region.

I agree with most of the above posters that as a coerced conversion, it shouldn't be looked at as genuine. And they are still in danger while they are there. The way to get them out is fly them back here, and after they've had their break, then see whether they renounce Islam or not. If they don't, treat them as Stockholm syndrome patients rather than normal people.

They should be aware that the penalty for apostacy is death, and with that in mind, it's up to them whether they want to make public their apostacy or not. But if they do, they should also make clear that they know about the death for apostacy penalty, and that they would take the appropriate security measures.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 27, 2006 10:52 AM

I have a SERIOUS question to ask all Christians on this board.

If someone held a riffle to your head and asked to you renounce your faith in Jesus Christ and to convert to Islam....would you?

What would you folks say about all the martyrs in history who burnt at the stake rather than to convert to what they believed were faiths OTHER than true Christianity?

If Islam starts to spread by the sword here in the US, will Christians agree to convert rather than die for their faith in Jesus?

Will true believers profess that Islam is the true faith? A religion of peace?

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 10:54 AM

One more thing - if they are still in Gaza, their statement about their highest regard for Islam should be taken as being for public consumption there. Also, if they are probably blank re: what Islam really is, it should neither surprise nor outrage anyone. But they ought to do what we have, educate themselves about their new religion, and proceed from there.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at August 27, 2006 10:54 AM

THE BBC - JUST LIKE LIVING IN CHINA!!!

The viewpoint from the UK: SKY news had this story just after CNN/international, and both channels were talking about, firstly the conversions, and then the revelation (oh what a surprise!) that they had been forced.

The BBC, on the other hand - no mention at all!! Eventually, they announced that the hostages had been released, but there was not one word about conversion.

The other channels were going through the usual motions about wondering what on earth could motivate the "militants", but I could see clearly that it was a symbollic attack on the West. Get the journo's, scare them a bit - Stockholm Syndrome - here's your Koran, lets all have a bit of a chant - and away you go to tell how nice the muslims are, actually. Oh! And don't forget to not call them Fascists any more!

The BBC didn't waste anytime wondering about what it meant. I took this, in conjunction with the massive ommision about the conversions, as an indication that the BBC know very well what is going on, but are in wilful denial.

It occured to me that if the BBC were the only news outlet available to Britons, then it would be just like living in China.

You want to do your country a favour? Well, let's start by getting rid of the BBC.

Posted by: FREE LEE at August 27, 2006 10:55 AM

I'm ordinarily the devils advocate, as in the Jill Caroll case where I thought it was easy to recognize when someone is being forced to do/say something under duress.

When someone has a gun pointed at you and demands your watch, you give him your watch.

In this case, the statements are perhaps a mis-statement by the freed Journalists. Maybe they work closesly with muslims in that region and intended to say "I have great respect for the muslims I work with..."

Who knows for sure, only time will clear it up.

In any event, these coerced statemens are a gold mine. Much like coerced statement of downed American pilots by Communist regimes, they are forever there on film to see what an evil idology is capable of.

Much attention should be paid on our side to exactly how the muslim world reacts to these gunpoint conversions. I'm quite sure the ummah are abuzz that this 'proves that islamic captors are merciful and treat captors well' and 'the journalists were glad to denounce their Crusader-Zionist masters.' Expose it when it happens! Get that B.S. out in the open for people to see what the world is dealing with.

Posted by: GreatShaitan at August 27, 2006 11:05 AM

Just another reporter who is willing to do or say anything to continue operating with the enemy. Hey Steve, now that you have converted you have two choices, dress and behave exactly like a muslim or get out of islamland. If you are a reporter that lives and works with the enemy you are a collaborator. There is no middle ground in this Global struggle.
You are with us or with the enemy. I have zero respect for Fox news but that is nothing new. Just think where we would be if we all behaved this way. They will use this as propaganda, hoping it will help convert others. If they capture you, you must assume you will be killed in the most hideous way.

Posted by: tgusa at August 27, 2006 11:23 AM

I meant rifle. You could also say sword, etc.

I am not acting as judge and jury here, I don't even know if the journalists were Christians.

I just want to know what others think and when others feel it is acceptable to 'convert'by threat of death.

Do you folks think the apostles would have converted if their lives had been threatened?

What should be the example Christians follow?

Where do you draw the line?

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 11:27 AM

Some folks on this board may not be aware that Fox News and Sky News are owned by the same person. Fox News is far right.....Sky News is far left. Hmmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 11:28 AM

"And that Centanni and FOX renege and come clean on the deal once he’s clear of the vermin".

I hope that is the case limes but exactly how does one come clean after saying all those nice things about mo and his moon god. I would feel very, very unclean and only "mohammed, spit be upon him" at every chance I got could come close to clensing myself and hoping that I didn't turn into another Yvonne Ridley.

Posted by: William The Crusader at August 27, 2006 11:32 AM

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1232231,00.html

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 11:33 AM

What bothers me most is when Steve said, "The Palestinians are a beautiful people."

The deal to get the reporters released may have required them to do a photo op with the Hamas PM and say a couple pro-Pali things, but they seemed to put too much heart and conviction into it.

Plus the nonsense about kidnapping and poor treatment of "guests" activity being condemned by most Palistinians or being out of character for Gaza is disgusting. Gaza is a place that has had lawlessness, terrorist murder, and hatred for Jews and other Infidels the defining characteristics of the local Arabs.

The behavior we are seeing in Gaza is typical of Jihadists throughout history, not an isolated incident by an otherwise "beautiful people" and "great religion."

Posted by: 4infidels at August 27, 2006 11:34 AM

Eisenhund, I agree, once I was out of danger, I certainly would not have any kind things to say about my kidnappers. Respect for Islam? Respect for the KKK, Nazis?

One of my slogans: "Have Grudge, Will Travel."

Posted by: Pelayo at August 27, 2006 11:34 AM

“Their "conversions" don't mean a thing though. Really, who cares if they had to take some pagan oath to come out alive? They aren't muslims.”
Americaningermany

I wish they were. We do not need human rubbish like them.
One thing is to “convert” under extreme circumstances, but there was no call to praise Islam.
It was done with view to the future, so they can continue to leak the Muslim’s asses and be paid for it

Stefania.
What if we experienced such a horrible experience? Would we say - while terrorists have their guns aimed at our heads - "Islam is a shit religion?"Of course we wouldn't.

Stefania, speak for yourself. It is an insult to some of us. Not everyone thinks life is worth everything and anything. For some of us dignity is far more important.
It is a shame that so many people readily accept any action to save a life. In my eyes the life after loss of dignity is not worth to be saved.

Posted by: pong at August 27, 2006 11:38 AM

And I wouldn't have anything nice to say about the culture that produced those kidnappers.

Remember: Those in the Pali gov't that helped free the reporters are unrepentant, genocidal, mass murdering, terrorist jihadists...as are their rivals, their allies, their security forces, their so-called political wings, their state-sponsored media and their official Islamic preachers.

Those leaders are from the same mindset, culture, religious and tactical outlook as the "street gangs" that the news media frequently talks about.

Posted by: 4infidels at August 27, 2006 11:42 AM

And I wouldn't have anything nice to say about the culture that produced those kidnappers.

Remember: Those in the Pali gov't that helped free the reporters are unrepentant, genocidal, mass murdering, terrorist jihadists...as are their rivals, their allies, their security forces, their so-called political wings, their state-sponsored media and their official Islamic preachers.

Those leaders are from the same mindset, culture, religious and tactical outlook as the "street gangs" that the news media frequently talks about.

Posted by: 4infidels at August 27, 2006 11:43 AM

And I wouldn't have anything nice to say about the culture that produced those kidnappers.

Remember: Those in the Pali gov't that helped free the reporters are unrepentant, genocidal, mass murdering, terrorist jihadists...as are their rivals, their allies, their security forces, their so-called political wings, their state-sponsored media and their official Islamic preachers.

Those leaders are from the same mindset, culture, religious and tactical outlook as the "street gangs" that the news media frequently talks about.

Posted by: 4infidels at August 27, 2006 11:43 AM

I am going to withhold judgement for a few days, let’s see what they say when they are back among family and friends. Two things to remember: the terrorists are smart they know where these folks live and can count on other muslims to attack their families if they embarrass islam. Also, I have a concern as they are reporters, they will have to go back into muslims countries. They are released, not safe.

The Goobs,

As far as a gun to my head conversion, I for one would prefer death. Not just because I would worry about insulting my God, I wouldn’t give the terrorists the satisfaction. Truth be told most of us regular posters have broken sharia law and true muslims should hunt us down and convert us or kill us for our posts. Most of us regularly insult (as they see it, I just use the truth) the prophet and islam. We have all seen the types of letters Robert receives and I don’t remember him ever saying anything but the truth. If anything Roberts postings are among the most unbiased and un-hateful on this site. On the other hand, my own posts have continuously been erased, as I tend to use more emotion than brains. I don’t think Christians are any braver than anyone else is but I think a practicing Christian would also prefer death, a name only Christian would be a 50-50 split. That’s just my thoughts, I really don’t know, as I have not been to any religious establishment for some time.

Posted by: Ronin at August 27, 2006 11:44 AM

I'm puzzled by this comment by Robert Spencer in his introduction to this entry:

"since the Muslim prophet Muhammad couched his appeal to Islam in terms that made it clear that a negative response would result in loss of property and exile..."

I thought Mohammed couched his appeal to Islam in at least two major instances (to the Persian ruler and to the Byzantine ruler) in terms of "Convert to Islam or I will militarily attack you."

That's unequivocably an attempt at forcing conversion -- in a context, furthermore, of a grandiose imperialistic conquest. So why the gingerly tentativeness in Spencer's locution? Spencer's locution is akin to a soft and subtle arpeggio from a bass clarinet, when it should have been the sennet from a clarion trumpet.

Posted by: Television at August 27, 2006 11:48 AM

Forced conversion at gun point to the religion of peace; HOW SYMBOLIC IS THAT? Of course it represents how most people throughout Asia,The middleast, and North Africa became Muslims in the first place by force and fear(convert or die) over the past nearly 1.400 years.

Yes a little Stockholm Syndrome should have crept into Steve Centanni's psyche after such an experience and he needs some time to shake it all out.

Forced or not, many fundamentalists in the umma will consider him now a Muslim convert and if he now comes out and says he is not ,then he risks being branded an apostate. Time to leave the region for a different assignment Steve. Don't stick around and become a misunderstander like so many are in the MSM.

Posted by: Mackie at August 27, 2006 11:50 AM

I have not been to any religious establishment for some time. Ronin

Ronin, same here. It is helpful to keep in mind that the Church is not an establishment or organization. It is the Body which is the Church, not a building or organization.

I agree it will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next few days. I only raised the question because, upon hearing of their 'conversion', in my own mind I wondered how acceptable this type of conversion will be if Islam begins to be spread by the sword in the West. This is quite possible in future if our governments fail to address the problem of Islam as a religion.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 11:52 AM

Crusader; Hope rings eternal but doesn't win today, Ailes was on live after Centanni was safety in Israel. Nothing but praise.

I'm wondering was other concessions were made in the week of negotiations.

Posted by: limes at August 27, 2006 11:57 AM

Unfortunately, the released journalists are not free anymore to choose their religion. They are Muslims and subject to their laws, which punish an apostasy by execution. If they recall their 'conversion', they can be executed. This should serve as a lesson to those who still naively think that Islam is a religion of peace...

Posted by: Bo at August 27, 2006 12:02 PM

Who would you rather be remembered as/compared to? Nathan Hale, Simon Peter(John 18:15-18, 25-27) or Steve Centanni? I know where I stand, how about you?
http://darter.ocps.net/classroom/revolution/hale.htm

Posted by: tgusa at August 27, 2006 12:02 PM

"A statement from the captors before the men were freed had said the two journalists had to choose either Islam, a tax imposed on non-Muslims to be paid to a Muslim ruler, or war."

Ahhh! The ulitmate Muslim invitation. Did anybody catch that? Robert and Hugh have been pointing out the three choices for years. And now we have a couple of bonafide, non-Muslim, western journalists who have been offered the choice and have chosen. What does it matter whether they meant it or not as to whether it will stick to them? Do you think that all the people in all the other countries that used to be mostly Christian and are now Muslim who were forced at gunpoint or rape-point or whatever to make the choice didn't mean it? They seem to be pretty darn Muslim now.

And on another point, how will the two journalists stay in that part of the world and do their jobs without being expected to act as Muslims? How were those guys grabbed in the first place? Do you think that the people who grabbed them aren't going to be watching their every move? But don't worry...even if those guys were grabbed again and roughed up or killed for not following their new religion no one in the west would make the connection, because afterall, Islam is a religion of peace and it's only been hijacked by extremists. There are plenty of useful idiots in the west who will buy that line to their dying day because it's easier than putting down their chardonnay and brie and having to actually do something about it.

Goobs,

You ask some very valid, if unpopular questions about the value of one's core values, belief system and integrity. It is historical fact that Christians died horrible deaths and underwent unbelievable torture rather that deny that Jesus Christ is King of the universe and that we are subject to Him. He also gave us the tremendous gift of free will, so that every one here on the earth is free to choose Him or reject Him. I've often thought of what I would do if I were in a similar situation. I believe it would probably be an unbearable place to be in, but bear it I must and I would have to choose Jesus Christ over even my life. Because what value would my life be worth if knowing Christ I rejected Him for the Satanic god, Allah? What good is it for a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? If I was weak, like St. Peter briefly was, and denied Him, what kind of mental anquish and torture would I then undergo because I had denied my Lord and my Friend? What kind of anguish will the two journalists undergo because they lied? Does anyone think that they thought Islam was a good idea before they were forced to convert? If so why hadn't they converted before now? And, as many people have wondered here this morning, do they have any idea what kind of consequences they will now suffer because of their choice?

The thought of having your picture on the internet with your severed head on your back for all the world to see must have been completely sobering to these two individuals and I can understand them wanting to protect their lives at all costs. But the thought of wilfully being enslaved under that putrid regime is more than I could bear, especially if I had to give up Jesus to do it.

Give me (religious) Liberty or give me death.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at August 27, 2006 12:06 PM

tgusa, let's not forget Matthew 10:33

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 12:07 PM

The typical American is among the freest people on the planet. Where else can you have a circle of friends which includes, parachutists, boaters, bikers, kayakers, and countless sports enthusiasts, who play or watch hours and hours of human based challenges, all contrary to islam. We are a threat to islam because our day to day existence is based on our ability to find relief from the daily grind through activities we choose. We will not easily be lead down a path designed to control us through mindless repetition. We are a nation of rednecks and cowboys (I mean the lifestyle not racially), living freely and under our own code of justice. The term “American” alone is an international symbol of the rugged individualist. islam is a controlling rule set designed to enslave and force everyone into a very narrow mindset and lifestyle. I don’t think they two lifestyles are compatible nor do I think they ever will be. Force can cause a few weeker Americans to convert, they rest of us will go down swinging the biggest hammer this world has ever seen and most likely the last one.

Posted by: Ronin at August 27, 2006 12:08 PM

How much jakat tax did they have to pay? They owe Allah lots of bucks. Pretty words are not enough, the Imams need cash. Did they write a check made out to Allah? What happens to a muslim who refuses to pay jakat? Is refusal to pay the same as apostacy? Now Cetanni and Wiig are jihadists by 'obligation'. Will they strap on a bomb or blow something up? What if they refuse martyrdom...when they hand Cetanni his explosive belt will he still have the 'highest respect' for Islam???? Inquiring minds want to know...

Posted by: duh_swami at August 27, 2006 12:09 PM

As I said above, I am not judging them. I am not to judge. That is for the Lord.

I feel very sad for the journalists. Very sad for what they felt they had to do.

I too wonder if they will suffer as Peter did, the knowledge that they rejected Jesus to save their lives.

Living with that knowledge would be very hard to bear.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 12:15 PM

I'm glad they were freed, converted or not. It's not going to matter much--after all, the days in which a man would lose his honor by converting to Islam at gunpoint (see John Galsworthy's The End of the Chapter)are long gone.

I would tell the guys "Welcome back and stay put. The organizations that employ folks like you are becoming irrelevant. Even Fox. No sense in endangering your lives for paltry reporting and faked events. Find more meaningful venues, like nature photography and hurricane-season coverage. And stop acting out your romantic phantasies of "living dangerously"--like Mel Gibson--in pursuit of the best snapshot and the most catchy quote. They are likely to be staged."

Posted by: ovidius_naso at August 27, 2006 12:28 PM

I just hope when my time comes I'm not reduced by the horror of it to a simpering, blubbering coward. It is impossible to say how one might act when faced with torture and beheading, and we shouldn't be too hard on those who break under the strain, as have several kidnapped infidels whose last acts were to star in jihadist home videos.

It's difficult to predict how one might perform in a football game, too, which is why we practice before the game. So I'm practicing. Please repeat often, after me, and maybe when our time comes maybe we'll be able to say to our captors:

There is no Satan but Allah, and Mohammed is his butt boy.

I too have the highest regard for Islam.

Posted by: Haid Dasalami at August 27, 2006 12:29 PM

Haid Dasalami-

"It is impossible to say how one might act when faced with torture and beheading, and we shouldn't be too hard on those who break under the strain, as have several kidnapped infidels whose last acts were to star in jihadist home videos."

Absolutely. Even brave Julius Caesar, when he was captured by pirates and held for ransom, played Stockholm Syndrome. But as soon as he could, after his release, he hunted down his captors and hung every one of them.

Posted by: Frank at August 27, 2006 12:37 PM

Centanni's career as an "objective" reporter is over. I'm sure he will write a book, then become an occasional commentator when there is another kidnapping, now that he's "experienced".
Maybe he'll take time off to really learn something about his religion of respect.
Nothing good comes from Islam.

Posted by: crusader rabbit at August 27, 2006 12:39 PM

They can not be judged for what they did to save their lives???? Yes they can! Yes, threat against their lives may explain it; yes, many of us might have done the same. But that does not make it right. May all of us pray for the strenght to stand up for WHAT WE ARE when the time comes.

Posted by: Bo at August 27, 2006 12:40 PM

Right on, Bo.

This is a good time for everyone here to ask themselves, how would I respond? Because we deplore the fate of those who became Dhimmi's to save their hides, but if we don't know what we believe in we will probably falter at the crucial moment and perhaps be lost forever along with them. That seems to be what happened with the two journalists.

I bet in their wildest dreams they never expected to be offered the three choices. And since they are among the media elite that continuously spout, like a mantra, that Islam is a religion of peace, they most likely would not have even contemplated what they do believe or don't believe as they were packing their sunscreen and extra shorts.

Now they can never go back to any of those Middle Eastern countries without risking their lives. But because they don't even know that they don't know, they probably will, under the false illusion that Fox news has some sort of magical power to protect them and before long we will hear about them again, only they won't be telling us about it themselves because they will no longer be able to. I hope that this is not the case but doubt that it will go down any other way.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at August 27, 2006 12:56 PM

Well. I will not discuss the "conversion" that seems to be the main point of interest of the Gentle Readers here.
I would like to highlight another point instead.

The dead silence of the Administration for all these days.
American Citizen kidnapped ? Silence.

I don't feel very much protected.

Now we know that the paleos can indeed do whatever they want. America doesn't move.

This is the center of this sad story for me.

Posted by: POITIERS-LEPANTO at August 27, 2006 12:57 PM

Ergo, in such a circumstance, the Church teaches that you have the right to say anything you want to say.

Henry, none of the other believers that I know (i.e. The Church) has ever taught me that it is okay to lie.

Most importantly, where did Jesus ever tell Believers it was okay to lie?

Which of the apostles- in the end - lied to save their lives? Peter lied early on, before receiving the Holy Spirit, and suffered emotionally a great deal. He quickly knew that he had failed Jesus. However, in the end, his courage, which I believe was a gift of the Holy Spirit, allowed him the strength to speak out the truth, regardless of what the outcome would be.

In the end, the apostles considered it an honor to die for the sake of Christ.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 1:00 PM

This was staged, just a publicity stunt. Where Fox screwed up was when they vetoed Geraldo's idea of showing him in camouflage and face paint, M16 and all, liberating the hostages.

Posted by: george_rem at August 27, 2006 1:11 PM

What would civilized world do if the following happens.

Suppose a bunch of people in California say the following.
1) There is only one god called shalalah. Any one denying is worthy to be put to death.
2) ooohlala received revelations from shalalah called al-duran. Shalalah will not reveal it to anyone else further. Meaning Ohoohlala is the last guy to receive revelations from shalalah.
3) According to these revelations those who believe in al-duran will go to heaven with 27 virgins.
4) believers in al-duran will have to eat Giraffe meet. Men will have to roam with undees and topless. Women would have to be covered head to toe.
5) Believers in al-duran are the rightful inheritors of the world. All the resource and women of this world are form them. Believers in al-duran can exterminate anyone denying supremacy of al-duran.

6) blah blah.

What would civilized world do

a) Will we say that believers of al-duran have right to their views and they are for peace.
b) Will we say that this is a evil cult and not a religion? Arrest anyone propoundin this.

Posted by: Desi at August 27, 2006 1:14 PM

There are two ways of looking at this (that I can think of right now).

You can think like a suicidal fool or think like a warrior.

You can throw away your life with some symbolic act of defiance and get your head cut off...

Or you can tell the mohammedan cockroaches anything they want to hear, use their arrogance against them, get free, come back, and punch their tickets.

Just know, if you're my enemy, I'm going to snipe at you from a distance, call in airstrikes and artillery, ambush you, cut your throat in your sleep, and lie to you. I will use your arrogance and stupidity as my most powerful weapons to exterminate you.

If you're smart, you won't offer the shehada garbage. You'll shoot me as soon as you catch me.
I will tell you whatever you want to hear, whatever will help me get into a position to kill you.

Would I say I believe in Big Al and Mo Dogg to save my ass? Damned straight.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you'll live very long afterward to enjoy it.

That's just this former soldier's take on it.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 1:31 PM

I certainly hope I wouldn't say anything to save my life. I would never want to give them the satisfaction.

I would say, instead, "If you love the Jews, make me a martyr."

heheheh

Posted by: August22 at August 27, 2006 1:36 PM

"It is impossible to say how one might act".

We can all take a lesson from these gentlemen,

On September 23, 1779, John Paul Jones fought one of the bloodiest engagements in naval history. Jones struggled with the 44-gun Royal Navy frigate Serapis, and although his own vessel was burning and sinking, Jones would not accept the British demand for surrender, replying, I have not yet begun to fight. More than three hours later, Serapis surrendered and Jones took command.
Or,
In June of 1813, Captain James Lawrence, in command of the U.S.S. Chesapeake, engaged the British frigate H.M.S. Shannon just outside Boston Harbor. After a short, bloody battle, the Chesapeake was seriously damaged and her captain lay mortally wounded. Reportedly, Lawrence died with his last command still on his lips: 'Tell the men to fire faster. Fight 'til she sinks, boys. Don’t give up the ship.'
Or,
Winston Churchill’s speech before Commons (June 4, 1940)
We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old.

Desi, “Suppose a bunch of people in California say the following”.

Not a good idea in most parts of the state.
http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/states/ca.html

Posted by: tgusa at August 27, 2006 1:36 PM

"Forced conversion" ???
I have trouble with this phrase, as there is no "conversion" unless you were something to start with.

Posted by: DhimmiNot at August 27, 2006 1:39 PM

Eisenhund, thanks for reiterating my position. I have no emnity for anyone who must mouth a few platitudes to win their freedom from these murderers.

I am reminded of the Spanish Conversos, Jew in the late 1400s who professed to be Catholics rather than admit to their Jewish heritage and by burned at the stake. What purpose would have been served if they all admitted they were Jews? They would have all ceased to exist, hardly a worthy goal. God, if you believe in him, does not want you to die for him. He will know that you do not mean it when you mouth a few stupid words. Christianity does not need more martyrs. This ain't the 300s.

Leave the death-love to the Muslims. Do not condemn these people for choosing to stay alive by means THAT HARM NO ONE. Lying to thugs is not a vice. And dying for no good reason and when it can be avoided is not a virtue.

Posted by: ryoga at August 27, 2006 1:43 PM

So...these guys are now Muslims. How strange. I suspect the BBC will now bend backwards to hire them.

Posted by: george_rem at August 27, 2006 2:00 PM

I would say, instead, "If you love the Jews, make me a martyr."

heheheh

August 22, THAT was funny! :o)

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 2:01 PM

The Goobs-

I cannot speak for the two gentlemen involved, and will neither condone nor condemn. But since you posed the question, for myself,I would find death preferable to accepting that vile oath.

Posted by: Sencit at August 27, 2006 2:01 PM

have a SERIOUS question to ask all Christians on this board.

If someone held a riffle to your head and asked to you renounce your faith in Jesus Christ and to convert to Islam....would you?

What would you folks say about all the martyrs in history who burnt at the stake rather than to convert to what they believed were faiths OTHER than true Christianity?

If Islam starts to spread by the sword here in the US, will Christians agree to convert rather than die for their faith in Jesus?

Will true believers profess that Islam is the true faith? A religion of peace?

------

Goobs, this is an extremely serious thing to a Christian.

A Christian would NEVER say this proclamation: Allah is one and Mohammed is his prophet. It is a direct denial of Jesus Christ. Why? The idea of 'God is one' is a denial of the Trinity, the Sonship of Jesus Christ. The Bible says that to do this makes one an 'antichrist'.

It is an insult to all those thousands, perhaps millions of martyrs who refused to make this proclamation (and other similar ones) to say that it is OF NO CONSEQUENCE.

It is a horrible insult to them.

Someone can recant Jesus Christ all they want, it is their choice, but please don't denigrate those who refused to to endanger their souls.

Jesus said, 'What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?'

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 2:01 PM

ryoga, none of us should condemn them. I agree with that statement. It is for God alone to judge.

I am however questioning what we should do here in the US if Islam begins forcing converstions when they become the majority?

Do you believe that martyrs who refused to deny Christ, died a pointless, meaningless, avoidable death?

Who are the martyrs in Revelation that are surrounding the throne?

What was the point of martyrs being mentioned in the scriptures if it is okay to lie to save your life?

This isn't the 300's....but what happens in the future if all Christians 'convert' to Islam to save their lives? Do you think they will be equal to the martyrs around the throne?

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 2:08 PM

-ryoga,

You're welcome, though I think we're approaching the same point from two different angles.

-tgusa,

It's one thing to go down swinging when you have no choice. It's something else entirely when the enemy, through oversight or hubris, allows you to maneuver yourself out of an adverse situation and into a more advantageous position from which you may pursue his eradication. Sun Tzu covered this a long time ago.

Despite the old joke, there is a difference between a retreat and a tactical withdrawal.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 2:08 PM

I remember hearing a story about Russian soldiers that broke into a church during a service and announced..."those of you who are not prepared to die for your faith, leave". At that point, many of the people left the building.

Then, according to the story, the soldiers put their weapons down and explained that they just wanted to know who it was safe to worship with. It was a sort of, separating the sheep from the goats....the wheat from the tares....

It is possible that someday Christians living in the West may be challenged as to whether we belong to Christ or whether we are prepared to publically deny Him to save our lives.

It's certainly not a pleasant thought. Many Christians around the world regularly die for their faith. This happens all the time.

I just wonder how prepared the Church would be here in the West.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 2:22 PM

POITIERS-LEPANTO, “American Citizen kidnapped”?
They all take their cue from their hero Mike (Journalist First, American Second) Wallace, taped at Harvard late 1987. As Robert Spencer said on Radio last week, some of us will, and have cast their lots against us. Not one drop of American blood for any “American Second”.

Eisenhund,
I agree, I would always prefer to live to fight another day. However, when faced with the choice of capture and the possibility of becoming a propaganda tool for the enemy not to mention the horrific treatment you would endure, I would rather not be taken alive. For example, if Mr. Centanni would have resisted and been killed, what would be the storyline now? Would he be a rallying cry for Freedom and Western values, who knows.

Posted by: tgusa at August 27, 2006 2:27 PM

It really astounds me that some people around here can't tell the difference between converting to something and just mouthing some words that a schizophrenic zombie murderer wants to hear.

Do y'all really think your god is so stupid that he can't see into your heart and tell the difference? Do you really think he wants you to throw away what y'all consider his gift to you of life rather than say a few words to save that life?

It's not faith that's talking.
It's pride.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that supposed to be a sin or something?

When offered gunbarrel proselytism:
Faith says, "God knows my soul and heart.
He wants me to live. If he didn't, he'd take me."
Pride says "I'm not going to give the bastards the satisfaction."
The cold warrior heart says "When I come back in a few days, what should I bring? The 7.62 or the .338?"

Seems to me, if God wants you to become a martyr, he'll tell you. Until that happens, don't be in such a hurry.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 2:32 PM

"""Pride says "I'm not going to give the bastards the satisfaction."
The cold warrior heart says "When I come back in a few days, what should I bring? The 7.62 or the .338?""""

Pride is love and preservation of SELF. Love of Christ is a denial of self.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 2:39 PM

tracks. It's up to the individual to evaluate the situation and wargame, as much as possible, various courses of actions and their likely outcomes. Problem is, many people don't have these tools and aren't used to thinking in adversarial scenarios. What you or I might do in Mr. Centanni's place may or may not be what he did, or may be but for different reasons.

Most people, it's just to get out alive.

I'll readily admit, I have a certain latent sociopathic streak. I don't like people pointing guns at me. I hate people threatening me. In this situation, I have two priorities:

Priorities are subject to change with changes in circumstances and opportunities.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 2:44 PM

I heard Tammy Bruce say on her show yesterday that she believes this 'new' jihad organization is a sham, and that this was staged to make HAMAS looks moderate - look like the 'good guys' who got these two released.

Just a PR stunt.

If this is the case, which only makes sense, then it is doubtful if these guys were ever at danger. Giving in to them was just a waste. Very wasteful in many ways, including the fact that the Islamofacists will use this to benefit them in many videos, wasteful in that it makes Americans looks very weak and without principal, without integrity.

What a shame.

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 2:48 PM

To live life as though this is all there is....is to preserve one's life with everything they have. To go for the gusto. To get all the toys one can get before they die. To fear death. Ultimately, we ALL die.

To live life knowing that this life is only temporary...that there is eternal life after...that everything here is a 'chasing after the wind'...that knowing and living for Christ is all that is truly of any real value....

Well, living like that gives one a different perspective when they are being asked to renounce Christ.

If I were put in the horrible position of denying Christ by converting to Islam, I could not help but think of the consequences before opening my mouth.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 2:50 PM

A point to those who go to the M.E. If you find yourself in a place where you are under threat of capture, you must decide then if you will allow it.

This reporter can't walk away from what he said, it is on video, the world will see it. If he states he lied, his work from now on will be cast with suspicision, reporters don't "lie".

Our soldiers, Army & Marines know, capture serves the enemy, so don't go there. You won't get out without some loss, faith, money, or life.

He knew where he was going, it was a choice, it leads to others.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at August 27, 2006 2:51 PM

And throwing away one's life needlessly is SUICIDE. I think I heard somewhere that God frowns on that kind of thing.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 2:52 PM

Damn! Top of post got cut off.
Shoulda been:

-tgusa,

I think you and I are running along parallel tracks. It's up to the individual to evaluate the situation and wargame, as much as possible, various courses of actions and their likely outcomes. Problem is, many people don't have these tools and aren't used to thinking in adversarial scenarios. What you or I might do in Mr. Centanni's place may or may not be what he did, or may be but for different reasons.

Most people, it's just to get out alive.

I'll readily admit, I have a certain latent sociopathic streak. I don't like people pointing guns at me. I hate people threatening me. In this situation, I have two priorities:

Priorities are subject to change with changes in circumstances and opportunities.

Posted by: Eisenhund at August 27, 2006 3:02 PM

""""And throwing away one's life needlessly is SUICIDE. I think I heard somewhere that God frowns on that kind of thing"""".

'Taking' one's own life is suicide. If someone else KILLS you because you do not agree to convert or to deny Christ.....you are murdered.

Example... Jesus GAVE his life willingly, and it was not suicide.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 3:06 PM

Maybe these journalists spoke the shalala words because, they knew that on one hand they would eventually be released and they would renounce islam when freed. On the other hand, if they really thought that they would never leave or really have to stay in the cesspool of palistine, they would have taken the bullet.

Better dead than islamic for sure.

Posted by: freewoman at August 27, 2006 3:07 PM

""""Maybe these journalists spoke the shalala words because, they knew that on one hand they would eventually be released and they would renounce islam when freed.""""

That may have been their plan...we'll see. So far, I have only heard that 'Islam is a religon of peace'from them.

I wonder if journalists...like our politicians...have been brainwashed somehow into actually believing that Islam is peaceful. How on earth can they see the evil acts of Islam and still claim over and over that it is peaceful?

Perhaps they have been ORDERED to say Islam is peaceful? What is preventing them from telling the truth?

Are they blind to the truth?

Are they lying to the public via orders from their employers?

Are they lying to secure their careers?

I have often wondered how Bush can lie to the public by saying Islam is a religon of peace and then call himself a Christian.

Either he does not know the truth about Islam....a scary thought, him being the leader of our country....OR, he is lying for political reasons....a scary thought....because it brings to question the truth of his faith AND whether he simply used Christians/Christianity to get elected.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 3:20 PM

Random thoughs . . .

1. Good from the Pali standpoint. We've heard spouted from numerous FOX reportage over the past few days . . . the Palis are a. wonderful people, b. beautiful people, c. wonderfull hosts . . . and that the 'hostages' are guests and being a guest in very important in Pali society. Centeni and Olaf.

2. What will this episode say to future Gaza intrepid journalist sleuths who wish to report in a fair and balanced manner? What does it say when the kidnapper is not arrested? I guess all coverage coming out of Gaza will need to be taken with a grain of salt.

3. While I will not criticize Steve C for his statements in durress or afterwords, I must confess it did sicken me a bit to watch him 'stargazing' the Hamas thug in chief. Couldn't Steve think of any good questions to ask? How about what are you going to do to arrest my kidnappers? Perhaps that wasn't in the approved script.

4. I'm a bit annoyed by the constant FOX mantra that Steve and Olaf were trying to tell the Palis story and their guest status needs to be protected . . . is this the job of a journalist? to tell somebody's "story," or to tell the truth? because, my friends, telling one's "story" and telling the truth are not one in the same. This is not the covering of Martin Luther King's movement in the 1960's, and if a reporter thinks it 'is,' then he should be emplyed by the Palestinian Authority and not by FOX news.

5. The Palestinian People are 'beautifull people.' I thought all the beautifull people lived in LA, but I digress.

6. Finally, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame one me. It will be interesting to see how this shapes coverage of the "story" out of gaza. Will Steve now report the stories in robes? or will his reversion back to Christianity be respected? by the beautiful people? who just had you as prolonged guests? Steve C can retain some credibility by reporting out of DC or someplace like that, but he'll need to get further kicks of excitement from Bungee Jumping.

7. Finally, what is all thos malarky about 'voluntering' to 'tell the story' of the Gaza people? I thought journalists were giving assignments--or--somebody was asked to cover this assignment. The question I would want asked is this: how will such kidnappings, conversions, threats and, at times, murder color how journalists report the news, or tell stories.

Once upon a time, in a crowded land, there were a beautifull people who liked to collect guests and war booty. They were of warm generous spirit, until they cut your head off.

Posted by: biorabbi at August 27, 2006 3:30 PM

""They were of warm generous spirit, until they cut your head off.

Posted by: biorabbi""

Uh, biorabbi.....you shouldn't really say things like.....the cut your head off part......

remember...cough....Islam is a 'peaceful' religion

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 3:41 PM

I can't help wondering how the comments on this thread would have differed if one of the reporters had taken the rifle shot to avoid the forced conversion and the other said he converted and "respected" Islam, Palestinians are beautiful people, blahblah.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at August 27, 2006 3:44 PM

Infidel Pride said

they ought to do what we have, educate themselves about their new religion, and proceed from there.

They are probably buying thousands of cellphones, learning how to build detonators and how to hide their religious appearance from the infidels, and building a sniper nest inside their car trunk even as we speak. Then they'll discreetly start attending the "Beheading 101" classes at their nearest mosque.

After their reporter's initiation into Islam, I wonder if Fox will start to report on the "real" Islam, not the phoney-baloney Religion of Peace "Killing one man is like killing mankind" fiction. I doubt it.

Posted by: special_guest at August 27, 2006 4:00 PM

Eisenhund. “I think you and I are running along parallel tracks”.
That is a fact.

Centanni is free, and the message for us Infidels is… Go peacefully when we come for you, we will treat you well (give you showers and stuff). How many unsuspecting Infidels will believe this message with disastrous results? Isn’t there a word to describe Centanni’s post-capture ROP monologue? This incident illustrates the extent of media Dhimmification. The fact that Western media believe they can cover this Global struggle from the middle shows that they are either Lunatics, Dhimmi’s or perhaps they really do understand they will be killed if they report the truth. The jihadi’s fake everything openly and nothing is said yet when the President mispronounces Nuclear they (msm) are all over him. What is wrong with this picture?
The real message is, if they will sell themselves out this fast they will sell the rest of us out even faster.

Posted by: tgusa at August 27, 2006 4:02 PM

Over one hundred comments, that's too many to read all of them.

Mr Centanni is now in a predicament, if he repudiates his conversion, he is now an apostate. Now he has a death threat forever following him.

I guess Fox will have to remove him from the ME and send him to cover Jon Benet.

Posted by: Pelayo at August 27, 2006 4:04 PM

Some on the board would have respected or even admired the reporter who did not convert...that is if he was killed for his faith....

Some would have respected the one who denied Christ to save his earthly life.

Some would have criticized the martyr as being a fool for throwing his earthly life away.

Some would have criticized the journalist who converted for throwing away his eternal life with Christ.

Some on the board know that it is not our place to judge the journalists, that is for God.

We can all think about what we will do if we are ever faced with the same situation.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 4:11 PM

I can't find the post now, but someone implied that Christ died willingly. I never heard that in Sunday School. I think that he was being held prisoner by some Roman guards with swords and knives. Escape was impossible.

Posted by: Pelayo at August 27, 2006 4:14 PM

Now that I have read some more comments, This needs to be added. If Centanni had refused to convert and been killed, his body would have been found in an alley somewhere. We would know nothing about the circumstances. Without the knowledge of what his captors wanted from him, his death would have been pointless. What good is martyrdom if no one hears about it? Where would the inspiration be?

This is for Centanni and his conscience to deal with.

In my case, I would be trying to get even.

Posted by: Pelayo at August 27, 2006 4:29 PM

can't find the post now, but someone implied that Christ died willingly. I never heard that in Sunday School. I think that he was being held prisoner by some Roman guards with swords and knives. Escape was impossible.

======

It says so several places, here is one of them:

John 10:

11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 5:04 PM

"We would know nothing about the circumstances. Without the knowledge of what his captors wanted from him, his death would have been pointless. What good is martyrdom if no one hears about it? Where would the inspiration be?"
posted above

If you haven't watched the video yet, refresh the JW homepage or go to LGF. Afterward, imagine watching that video with you reciting the shahada in Arabic, announcing the new Arabic name you've chosen, then the statements after release "I've learned a lot about Islam", "I have the greastest respect for Islam", etc. Imagine your children, your grandparents watching it. Would martydom be pointless, just because we didn't hear the predictable tripe (we know what the captors wanted) coming from their own mouths? Are their children and grandparents "inspired" by this?

My greatest fear is I would do the same. I hope I am less likely after watching the video.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at August 27, 2006 5:15 PM

I'm surprised that with over 100 comments on this thread, nobody has mentioned Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. Who knows what went on during his captivity, and how it differed from Centanni's, but he died reaffirming his faith and his family, as an honest man.

Centanni has his conscience to deal with, but after his "Stockholm Syndrome" outburst, Fox News viewers will never be certain of his objectivity in examining the Middle East or the Muslim world in general. He has no business covering those topics anymore, and if Fox management is smart, they'll find him something else to do.

Posted by: materialguy at August 27, 2006 5:21 PM

Materialguy, you are right.

We must remember the bravery of Daniel Pearl.

What a huge difference between the two men.

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 5:25 PM

I'll say it again: I hope when my time comes I don't turn pussy.

For those of you who think there's nothing to be gained from flipping your captors the bird, I beg to differ. We are not always required to do what is best, but we are always reqired to do what is right. It's NOT OK for a Christian to deny his faith to save his life, although as I stated above, I certainly wouldn't presume to judge one who does so out of his fear.

As for what we have to gain in such a situation by refusing to submit, for those wh don't belive in eternal life it should still be compelling that principle is indeed worth dying for. For when the last card is dealt, it's still their idea of a hand versus ours, and our enemies are indeed willing to die for theirs. I assert that we will never be able to defeat them without the same commitment.

As I say, I pray I am not weak when my time comes.

Regards,

HAID

Posted by: Haid Dasalami at August 27, 2006 5:55 PM

Pelayo

Jesus had ONE purpose in coming to earth...to die for our sins. Unfortunately, some organizations have taught that the Jews killed Jesus.

Pelayo, since God sees the end from the beginning, then He knew what would happen to Jesus before it ever happened.

The Jewish religious leaders 'accused' Jesus, the romans sentenced him and carried out his crucifixion...

Many have focused on His suffering ...rather than focusing on WHY Jesus willingly gave his life.

If there had been ANY other way, the Father would not have required that Jesus die for our sins. See: Luke 22:42

Since God said that the wages of sin is death...then sin required the death penalty. Jesus paid that debt on behalf of the world and it is a gift from God for all that will receive it.

As August22 said above. One of the best verses that show that Jesus was not murdered but gave up his life is the following:

John:10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 NO ONE TAKES IT FROM ME, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Also see: 1 John 3:16

What organizations should focus on is his victory over death...his resurrection and the wonderful love and mercy of God that He provided us a means of forgiveness for the penalty that He required.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 6:13 PM

None of us should judge the journalists. That is for God.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 27, 2006 6:16 PM

Thank you Haid, you are exactly right.

Don't forget, we haven't seen any proof that this kidnapping was anything but a deception to make HAMAS look like good guys.

These two men have me so disgusted with Fox News, I will never watch it again.

They still haven't recanted their 'conversion'.

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 6:19 PM

Excellent points, Biorabbi.
The Pal's being good, wonderful people, wonderful hosts. The journalists being treated as guests - very important.etc., etc.

Usually when accepting a dinner invitation, or a visit to someone's home, the thought never crosses my mind that before carving the turkey, the host might pull out a gun and make me repeat his version of "Grace" or die.

Bush (I supported him!) and his ilk, and the whole bull-dust about "religion of peace" and all the sweet characteristics of Saracen hospitality.
It seems that the leadership of the West has been radically castrated. They do not dare call a spade a spade. Imagine Eisenhower telling the world that National Socialism is a peaceful party, but that a few German Nazis had hijacked the Party.
The only thing worse than these political sycophants, are the liberals who blame the West for a) the problems in Mohammed-land and b) use this as an excuse for the terrorists.
Maybe if the West (USA and G Britain) had offered jobs to young Germans in the 1930's there would have been no holocaust.
It's just inSANE!

Posted by: Sansantiago at August 27, 2006 6:57 PM

I’m ready to cut Centanni some slack, even after watching his propaganda piece now posted. Watching the release video, the man was terrified, and I probably would have been too. Quoting Eisenhund:

‘Despite the old joke, there is a difference between a retreat and a tactical withdrawal’

Centanni is now a worldwide celebrity. He has the stage. If he doesn’t seize the moment by doing a special where he renounces his conversion, rats out whatever connections the kidnappers have to Hamas, and shines a spotlight on the true nature of Islam, he WILL be a pussy. He used the West’s political capital to save his own neck, and owes us something back.

Posted by: limes at August 27, 2006 7:01 PM

The Palestinians are a beautiful people." my God, do these reporters come out of the sixties hippie crowd or what! l mean they have very little self respect left, what a bunch of cowards. they can at least stop with all the BS, stay quiet and get the hell out of Gaza. but now they are trolling so low for the love of these lovely palestinians it makes me want to puke. l hope they come to their senses, but somethings tells me they are so stupid, or pc misquited. now Fox can send the work with Hezbos in Lebanon.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 27, 2006 9:36 PM

Centanni is now a worldwide celebrity. He has the stage. If he doesn’t seize the moment by doing a special where he renounces his conversion, rats out whatever connections the kidnappers have to Hamas, and shines a spotlight on the true nature of Islam, he WILL be a pussy. He used the West’s political capital to save his own neck, and owes us something back...

--

You are absolutely right.

I'm still waiting to hear the renouncement.

All I've heard so far is pandering, pandering...

Posted by: Kay at August 27, 2006 10:04 PM

It very easy to condemn these Men..who imprisioned at gunpoint and threatened by all forms of abuse such as decapitation folowed by Exsanguination. Which dependant on the methods utilised ...are slow and excruciating. Reduced to nothing more that butcher meat for the dogs.

I have experienced being held prisoner within my work place by a severly paraniod rapist ,convicted of murder.
When I INTERVENED TO ASIST his fellow inmate ,already severley injured, he turned on me. There were no panic buttons and no one to see or hear my plight and most inportantly I was contained in a small tiled washroom.....slippery from the victimns blood and bodily fluids.

All I had was a broom handle and my crisis training.....I was terrified in the only way understood by those who have faced their extinction.

Fight I did for my lfe and suffered multilpe cutthroat razor cuts to legs and arms...while being terrorised by the venom and references to his earlier sucess. Years of Martial arts traing and the use of the broom handle some how kicked in and I eventually sudbued him.

It changed me irrevocably , despoiled my view of the Healing profession I loved ...took months of heart searching to be finally at peace again.

I recount this for these two men's entiltlement to
a fair and just crack of the whip....

It all to glib and hypocriticle to sit in ones safe and warm family home and be brave.

Fireside warriors have in my opinion no right to say they would rather die than convert.

UNTIL IT's YOUR NECK ON THE BLOCK...ITS ESASY TO PONTIFICATE AND JUDGE !!
Their ordeal is now entering a new harrowing ..from aka the press, from their employers , the security services and every two bit media whore who will want another piece of their Soul.

I say to you both ...fate has smiled on you ...make her proud and use this to temper your spirit and not debase or disease it.

My condolances to you and all who have went before. I for one salute your courage !!

Posted by: Kelticman at August 27, 2006 11:05 PM

Kelticman; Things seem simple from afar. Maybe this Theodore Roosevelt quote will ring true:

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

Posted by: limes at August 27, 2006 11:19 PM

That being said, a sixty-year-old man made a conscious decision to accept risk. He made statements counter to his Country's interest in order to get himself out of a jam. And I think he has an obligation to correct the record in a very public way.

Posted by: limes at August 27, 2006 11:28 PM

Not only do I have the right but I have the obligation to say I would rather die than convert. You are not the only one to have undergone a REALLY unpleasant experience during this lifetime and lived to tell about it.

Two of the questions posed by the Goobs at 10:54am this morning were these:

"If someone held a rifle to your head and asked you to renounce your faith in Jesus Christ and to convert to Islam...would you?

If Islam starts to spread by the sword here in the U.S., will Christians agree to convert rather than die for their faith in Jesus?"

As a Christian, I would have no other choice BUT to say no, I won't convert and then let the chips fall where they may. And that is not suicide, it is a choice to stand up for what one believes in against an enemy that has no honour.

For those who think that my kind of thinking is just throwing away my "life with some symbolic act of defiance," let me straighten you out.

There was a Polish priest named Maxamilian Kolbe who was arrested by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz during WWII. While there a prisoner escaped from the camp and in retaliation the Nazis decided to choose ten men out of the camp to die. One of the men was a father of several children and when he began to weep at the thought of dying, Fr. Kolbe volunteered to take his place. Fr. Kolbe and the others were given no food for two weeks. As the others died, Fr. Kolbe was there to hear their last confessions, to comfort and console them. Eventually the Nazis shot him full of poison and he also died. Did he throw his life away? True, he could have kept his mou