Vermin tend to flee from the light.

Posted by: Truth at August 28, 2006 5:48 PM

is this Carl guy a muslim? or just a know-it-all westerner?

Posted by: FedUp at August 28, 2006 5:51 PM

He knows he can't hold a candle to Robert.

Posted by: freewoman at August 28, 2006 5:53 PM

why if Carl is a muslim he hasn't got a changed muslim name?

Posted by: FedUp at August 28, 2006 5:54 PM

He has intellectually invested so much into his 'scholastic' study of Islam that his very identity depends on it. I think he probably fears that you will undermine, subvert and indeed dismantle that framework which provides a sense of self and would therefore lead to a personality breakdown and disintegration.
That goes for a billion and a half others on this planet.

Posted by: johndoe at August 28, 2006 6:00 PM

Dear Mr. Ernst (not that he has the guts to read these forums),
You sir, are a coward to be stripped of your so-called academic pedigree...along with your unused spine.

Luvs,
Q.I.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at August 28, 2006 6:12 PM

Johndoe:

Excellent analysis. I am glad to see people understanding that aspect of human psychology and why so many resist change.

On the article:

Spencer is right on the money. These liars make accusations based on false evidence. They do not consider it a red flag that their accusations are without evidence because all of their accusations ultimately are without evidence. Accusations they do not respect are ones with evidence.

They are liars at their core. Evidence is the core component of a language entirely foreign to them.

Posted by: NovaRocketMan at August 28, 2006 6:12 PM

"I am not interested in having a debate with you, and I stand by my remarks on the biased and nonscholarly nature of your publications and publishers."

What exactly does "stand by" mean to this man? He's been soundly challenged to defend and substantiate his remarks and yet he merely childishly clings to ad hominem.

At least we know what "not interested" means (afraid).

I hereby declare Robert the victor by the concession of his supine opponent.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at August 28, 2006 6:17 PM

seriously l do not understand how anyone who can read and can follow logic, have a mind, has humanity can ever become or remain a muslim. muslims are creatures of comfort and must be in total denial of the very religion that cannot be found acceptable for most people. it is the brave person such as "Ayaan
Hirsi Ali" who can find islam detestable and stand up to it.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 28, 2006 6:17 PM

seriously l do not understand how anyone who can read and can follow logic, have a mind, has humanity can ever become or remain a muslim. muslims are creatures of comfort and must be in total denial of the very religion that cannot be found acceptable for most people. it is the brave person such as "Ayaan
Hirsi Ali" who can find islam detestable and stand up to it.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 28, 2006 6:18 PM

"I am not interested in having a debate with you, and I stand by my remarks on the biased and nonscholarly nature of your publications and publishers." = "I'm just better than you, I won't debate you and that's that, a cat's a cat and that's that."

What a big baby.

Posted by: Frank at August 28, 2006 6:22 PM

Carl Ernst is an artful dodger same as the other "Islamic Scholars" who are too chickensh!t to debate you. They much prefer corrupting their students. They fight you in cowardly ways same as Muslims prefer.

"War is deceit" - Muhammad

Mr Spencer- I've heard you on the radio and you whip out the Koran citations, chapter and verse, quicker than the best preachers can cite from The Bible

Posted by: dennisw at August 28, 2006 6:22 PM

If I were an alumnus of UNC, or if I were ever contacted by them for a donation, I would decline with an explicit explanation that I do not wish to support a University which employs such a "scholar" as Carl Ernst.

Posted by: del at August 28, 2006 6:30 PM

Carl Ernst is entranced by the Sufi trance dancers. Someone who has written so much about Sufi mysticism only has one foot in the real world, if that. Such inordinate interest in Sufism shows he's going to buy into the Ummah's irrationalism and will accept the Muslim spin on other matters

http://www.unc.edu/~cernst/
His publications include Sufi Martyrs of Love: Chishti Sufism in South Asia and Beyond (co-authored with Bruce Lawrence, 2002); Teachings of Sufism (1999); a translation of The Unveiling of Secrets: Diary of a Sufi Master by Ruzbihan Baqli (1997);Guide to Sufism (1997); Ruzbihan Baqli: Mystical Experience and the Rhetoric of Sainthood in Persian Sufism (1996); Eternal Garden: Mysticism, History, and Politics at a South Asian Sufi Center (1993); and Words of Ecstasy in Sufism (1985).

Posted by: dennisw at August 28, 2006 6:31 PM

No doubt scholars like Carl Ernst are the reason academe is held in such (ahem) high repute by so many non-academics. His time and massive intellect are too valuable to waste entering the lists with authors who address their work to a popular audience. Don't worry guys, just let the egg heads sort this type of problem out. Go back to watching tv re-runs and drinking cheap beer. The elitist w@nker!

Posted by: MP at August 28, 2006 6:35 PM

Money can buy many, many things.
Carl Ernst is secularist, not Christian.
It's easy to scare people of no religion because this world is all they have.

Under the sword, strong Christians and muslims are harder to convert, vis-a-vis. Athiests are easy. Fox news men said they are forced to convert to Islam, they were scared. They also want to make money and news in muslim world; that's all they have in this world.

The time is ripe for Islam: there are less Christians and more agnosticts and athiest in America and Europe.

Posted by: abdullah_karim at August 28, 2006 6:37 PM

I'm not surprised at the decline of the invitation.

Those who denounce those of us who promulgate the truth about Islam and jihad obviously know that they cannot make any case for their denunciations.

I do many posts about Islam and jihad on my blog, providing my own opinion based on the evidence I find. And since the Mohammed cartoon thing happened, I've been relentlessly soaking up whatever information I could. I now understand that the root cause of jihad is Islam. But leftists who want to believe that the root cause is "Western foreign policy" or something and who believe that negotiation is the answer to conflict with IslamoNazis... they'll basically claim I'm wrong, even calling my blog a "hatefest", but they never, never attempt to prove that I'm wrong. For they realize they cannot.

Most folks want to believe that Islam is about peace and tolerance... because it's just too hard for them to come to grips with the reality that Islam is actually a barbaric ideology of supremacism and imperialism which literally requires jihad of all able-bodied Muslims. Most folks cannot apprehend the reality that human beings can literally be programmed via a "religion" to become machines of hatred, death, destruction... literally tools of Islamic imperialists hellbent on the takeover of the world and its ultimate Islamification. This is what we're dealing with. This is jihad as I see it at the moment.

I believe that Islam should be sternly and unequivocally advised that should it refuse to reform and shed the ideologies of supremacism, brutal, murderous intolerance and imperialism it continues to hold, then it may well end up being wholly defeated in a World War it might start. Islam could continue to exist peacefully in the world only if it reforms to become acceptable to the rest of mankind. No ideology founded upon supremacism and world domination can be tolerated.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at August 28, 2006 6:38 PM

I think most 'Islamic Scholars' are used to debating in strictly islamic environment, i.e. only in the places where 'Sharia' law is being practiced and the contestants can be charged with blasphemy and executed for just questioning the word of Kuran.

Posted by: pagan at August 28, 2006 6:39 PM

There is no debate in muslim world.
One person talk; all the rest follow obidiently.

Posted by: abdullah_karim at August 28, 2006 6:43 PM

Gee, you'd think Ernst would jump at the chance to discredit a dangerous rabblerouser like Spencer. Perhaps in his single-minded pursuit of The Pure Truth he has forgotten his public responsibilities? (Irony.)

Posted by: snowpea at August 28, 2006 6:46 PM

Ernst is sticking with Bert and his other Sesame Street pals. He doesn't have what it takes to play with the big boys.

An immoral, dishonest, unprincipled college professor with a flabby intellect. What were the odds?

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 6:46 PM

To most of the outside world the mention of UNC-Chapel Hill evokes images of NCAA championship teams, a competitive public university with a light price tag, and good party times on Franklin Street. But to those of us who sought an unbiased education we were greeted with an unexpected surprise: a faculty teeming with socialist sympathizers. And this was 15 years ago.

I cannot imagine how leftist and spineless these people have become by now. Oh wait - I can: witness the kid glove treatment of Mohamed Taheri Azar, aka the Tarheel Jihadist, by the administration and local yokles. So I am not surprised that Ernst has avoided a one-on-one with Mr. Spencer. When one is used to debating hungover 19-year olds the prospect of squaring off with an actual adult must be more than a little uncomfortable. This reminds me of the socialism professor at UNC who awarded me a C+ on a paper I wrote lambasting communism. After several sessions arguing my case he bumped it to an A-. They have nothing to stand on.

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 28, 2006 6:48 PM

"The time is ripe for Islam" -abdullah_karim

-I would suggest that the time is ripe for Islam to fall to its knees.

The Free World will rise when it's good and ready and crush Islamic imperialists. Believe it. The Free World defeated Islam's brothers, the Nazis. Hitler was a pathetic failure and had no choice but to blow his brains out, unable to face reality. The same thing will eventually happen with the IslamoNazis.

I'm not impressed in the least by Islam. It's pathetic. Delusional. It's all about the dogma that whoever follows that death cult is superior to all who don't. Pure delusion.

Killing those who don't agree with Muslims? An admission of failure of the ideology. They cannot defend it; therefore they kill those who question it. I feel nothing but disdain and contempt for that sort of thing.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at August 28, 2006 6:51 PM

Robert called him out....and he blinked.

The willingness (or lack of) to openly defend a challenge to one's beliefs is integral to the presence or absence of integrity. I've had my ass kicked in a parking lot...and in a discussion forum...(just ask Hugh).

But you don't walk away from a challenge if you believe in yourself and what you stand for.

Carl Ernst deserves nothing but pity; he's a coward.

Posted by: Cornelius at August 28, 2006 6:53 PM

Canadian_sentinal,

If Islam can continue to exist and an ideoligy of supermacism can not be tolerated in the world, then why Islam can not be telerated and continue to expand?

Syria was a Christian country, now Muslim.
Lebanon was a Christian country, now muslim.
Abyssnia was a Christian country, now Etiopia and muslim.
Indonesia and Malaysia was Budists, now Muslim.
Egypt was Christian, now muslim.

Soon, America and Europe.

Posted by: abdullah_karim at August 28, 2006 6:53 PM

"There is no debate in muslim world.
One person talk; all the rest follow obidiently"

--That's true. After all, "Islam" means "submission".

Which is anathema to freedom, upon which the Free World is based.

Therefore, Islam is anathema to the Free World.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at August 28, 2006 6:55 PM

As Ali Sina says: a religion (sic) based on on a foundation of sand cannot hold up to criricism and debate. Faux educators like Ernst knows that ultimately he has nothing to stand on. A few well placed blows by Robert and his career and his religion tumbles into the ocean.

Abdullah: Don't think the agnostics and athiests aren't up to your Muslim charade. We are not going to get entangled in biblical quotations verses Kranic crap. We're coming right at you. In the front lines. Wherever you wish to display your rubbish. We've no need to respect your meataphysical perversions. We know what you want to do with our human race. Do not question our courage or believe we have no morals or are unwilling to die for the things we believe in.

Posted by: Briars at August 28, 2006 6:55 PM

Since when is Ethiopia Muslim?

Posted by: Cornelius at August 28, 2006 6:56 PM

There is no Truth. There is only position. Islam from its birth was based on fake complaint, a fake Truth but a perfect position. It's all phony. But it's a Fictive Reality that holds water. So to speak.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at August 28, 2006 7:01 PM

abdullah_karim:

"It's easy to scare people of no religion because this world is all they have."

I disagree that religion can give hope, only truth can give hope. "Religion" is but a word we use to describe invisible things. Hope must stand on truth or it stands not at all.

The Left and Islam are already bound. The roots are the same, but the words change: what do we expect from the religion of lies and murder? That they should not lie? That they should understand themselves and not be hypocrites full of lies?

Posted by: NovaRocketMan at August 28, 2006 7:02 PM

Abdullah:

Islam is a joke. Any American President could wipe out the entire muslim world with the push of a button. So could the leaders of Russia and China.

Eventually, one of them will.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 7:02 PM

Rober Spence challenges and live in hiding, lest he be murdered by muslims.

Carl Ernest has no place to hide and need money to earn at the university; therefore, submit to fear. This life is all he has. Yah?

Ladies and Gentlemen, run for you life, Islam is coming.

Posted by: abdullah_karim at August 28, 2006 7:03 PM

Abdullah:

Islam is a joke. Any American President could wipe out the entire muslim world with the push of a button. So could the leaders of Russia and China.

Eventually, one of them will.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 7:04 PM

Abdullah:

Islam is a joke. Any American President could wipe out the entire muslim world with the push of a button. So could the leaders of Russia and China.

Eventually, one of them will.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 7:05 PM

Abdullah Karim, believe whatever you wish.

But the day will come when you see Islam fail.

Freedom is stronger than hate; stronger than supremacism.

You think you're winning? Fine. Continue with the delusion.

But know this: you are opposed. And the opposition to you is growing day by day.

The people of the Free World are quickly learning what you are really about.

And we will not submit. We will not be Dhimmis.

If this means you must therefore attempt to kill us in the name of Allah, then we will fight.

In war, there is a victor and there is a loser.

If I were you, I wouldn't trust some book that says you'll be the victors.

For you are led to believe that we are weak; but you judge a book by its cover.

In America, there is a saying: "Don't tread on me". That saying is accompanied by a rattlesnake. So if you, the Islamists, tread upon the Free World, you can expect a deadly counterstrike.

Just look at the awakening of the Netherlands and Australia. They're now standing up to Islamofascism.

And this is only the beginning.

You underestimate the Free World. But go right on ahead and do whatever the fantastical book tells you.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at August 28, 2006 7:06 PM

Islamists are like vampires under the light of Truth. They need to work in the dark. They yearn and suck for the blood of life but as much blood as they swallow they still remain dead.

Posted by: Briars at August 28, 2006 7:08 PM

pagan:

"I think most 'Islamic Scholars' are used to debating in strictly islamic environment, i.e. only in the places where 'Sharia' law is being practiced and the contestants can be charged with blasphemy and executed for just questioning the word of Kuran."

That is what I have found. I have spent a lot of times debating with cultists of various types on the Usenet and such over the years. Islamists are in the category of "afraid to talk".

Cults - whatever your definition - have a commonality in that they must strictly ban outside information or their illusions begin to fall. The weakest ones, the craziest ones, are strictest about this.

Islam has survived and thrived all of these years because of their strong society, partly. Get a Muslim in the "world" and apart from his people and they don't last long.

Posted by: NovaRocketMan at August 28, 2006 7:10 PM

Well, canadian sentinel is a brave man who will fight to death, but all the rest will lose heart.

Not many are as brave as you.

Athiests and agnosticts will become muslims, and in turn they will bring sword to you.

Posted by: abdullah_karim at August 28, 2006 7:12 PM

Abdulla:

I run into muslims now and then. They don't even have the balls to look me in the eye. The only time muslims talk tough is when they outnumber their enemies ten to one, or anonymously through the internet. Usually not even then. Muslims are the most contemptible cowards in the history of mankind.

If I were to run into you, I could spit in your face, and you wouldn't do a damn thing about it--and we both KNOW IT, don't we boy?

There will never be enough muslims in America to do do more than snivel and moan every time islam is ridiculed by your betters.

You weaklings have been relegated to the world's most worthless real estate, and soon you won't even have that.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 7:20 PM

Where do these people get off thinking because you're an atheist you'll automatically become a muslim? I would think if an atheist were to choose a God, he would choose one who is kindler and gentler than an allah. After all, just because you don't believe in a God, doesn't mean you're going to go out and start killing people in the name of one. Which is what you'd have to do when you became a muslim. It's in their war manual.

How in the world would an atheist become a muslim , and believe in the koran, when he knows the world isn't flat, doesn't set in a mud puddle, satan doesn't sleep in your nose or pee in your ear, flies don't carry cures and mountains don't hold the earth down?

How anyone would believe in the koran is beyond me. How anyone could follow a maniacal criminal like ole mo , is also beyond me.

Posted by: freewoman at August 28, 2006 7:21 PM

Found this on Following Muhammed: "Those of us who have studied the text of the Qur'an, the writings of the great poets, and the history of Islamic civilization feel very keenly the distortion and perversion of Islamic symbols and authority perpetrated by these modern extremists. How much more anguish is felt by the vast majority of Muslims, who loathe acts of terrorism at the same time that they deeply resent the continued imposition of neocolonial influence over their countries?"
This is quite commen by western scholars of islam, because they would damage their relativation in the islamic world.

Abdullah: The west needed historically only half generation to from fully peace to near destroying itself and the world through war. With the end of the cold war, all option are again open. So nothing holds it back. When you are evil you could say that osama is playing with an pandora box. I see this in quite many debates, their the speakers transfer their world view to the otherside. But normally they didn't have the same view. To make the thing worse, you approximate that the west will behave like yourself, which mean absolut static. It's iretate only you, but without recognice that this is the strengh of the western culture, you see this point only as a weakness. But how could you approximate the near future when there is something whole unpredictable like the west?

Posted by: Ariuvist at August 28, 2006 7:22 PM

My, but you are indeed delusional.

Delusion is a serious handicap. Handicaps in war are deadly.

You are wrong... dead wrong that "all the rest will lose heart". Again, you underestimate us. For I am not alone. You have no idea.

Atheists becoming Muslims? Only if they're insane. Only if you threaten to kill them otherwise. This is the kind of people who become Muslims? Insane folks and pussies? Pathetic.

And you believe you're superior just because you believe in some guy named "Allah"?

My-o-my... now I've seen it all... a nutcase for real!

Just stay out of my world. You are not welcome here. If you don't agree with the gifts of freedom, democracy, the rule of law (not Islam) and human rights, then if you're here now, go back to the Islamic world, live in a cave, hump a camel, whatever you do... just get out of my country. I'll not have some supremacist plot to kill me in my own country just because I'm pursuing my own destiny and you don't like it.

"Religion of peace and tolerance"?

But my fellow Free Worlders, does this Muslim sound the least bit tolerant or peaceful?

Look closely. This is the enemy. Get used to it.

Posted by: Canadian Sentinel at August 28, 2006 7:23 PM

Under the sword, strong Christians and muslims are harder to convert, vis-a-vis. Athiests are easy. Fox news men said they are forced to convert to Islam, they were scared. They also want to make money and news in muslim world; that's all they have in this world.

Athiests and agnosticts will become muslims, and in turn they will bring sword to you.
Posted by: abdullah_karim

You are full of shit.. to date the converts to Islam have come mostly from the ranks of Catholics, and these are the most virulent and adamant of Muslims.

Saying the Shahada to spare one's life is not a conversion at all (except in the infantile and disorganized mind of Muslims). I am an atheist, but formerly a Catholic and ain't no way I would become a muslim.. I am not stupid, nor easily brainwashed (which is why I am no longer a Catholic).

I would, however to save my life, mutter crap I don't believe in such as the Shahada.. but that doesn't mean I believe or that I am a convert (except in the disorganized and infantile mind of the muslim).

But you are right about one thing, Centanni and Wiggim make their money from being given access to the Muslim for the news services that they serve, so there is more than a bit of the profit motive as motivation for their sham of a Shahada.

But no real atheist or agnostic will take up the sword for Islam, and no sentient being, no logical being, no rational being will or could become Muslim, only infants, fools, and mentally disturbed can or will go that route.

Posted by: Nariz at August 28, 2006 7:24 PM

The Left and Islam are already bound. The roots are the same, but the words change: Posted by: NovaRocketMan

Statement is an unsubstantiated non sequitur and as unreasonable and illogical as those made by muslims..

NovaRocketman you are undistinguishable from a muslim.

You are not left therefore you have no idea what the "left" is bound to, therefore can't say that the Left is bound, in fact "left" comes in many shades, and many a Jihad watcher (and serious fighting anti Jihadis) are actually leftists, whereas "brave souls such as you" limit your activity to posting inane comments on websites that support your point of view.

The Choir doesn't need more voices, the preacher doesn't need more people in the pews, what is needed however are soldiers in the field.. and frankly right wingers don't make good soldiers in the battle for ideas..they won't even speak up much less raise their head above the fracas unless they have backup.

Show us your stuff, your intellect, your soundness, your steadfastness, your ability to defend yourself by joining this Forum and taking on the muslims, and their right wing (yes I said right wing) dhimmi's and allies, (and yes there are a few leftists there, but mostly right wingers former FREEPERs. Show us your moxie dude, show us the man that you are.. I'll check the users list to see if NovaRocketman shows up.

Posted by: Nariz at August 28, 2006 7:36 PM

A quick note - I have blocked abdullah_karim in the interest of keeping him from derailing the thread any further from the topic of Carl Ernst's reply.

Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor

Posted by: MarisolJW at August 28, 2006 7:37 PM

Unlike a certain poster who is posting here, the good news is that the Christian faith is booming in the globlal south. Sub Saharia Africa, Asia, and Latin America is seeing huge growth of new believers. The Christian faith of the global south is very much Bible based and conservitive. These countries are now even sending missionaries not only to the Middle East but even to the West to evangelize it once again. The good news is that the Gospel is going to the four corners of the world.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 28, 2006 7:55 PM

MarisolJW,

Thank-you for blocking that troll. It is important to not feed the trolls, better yet, block them.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 28, 2006 7:56 PM

http://www.jhfc.duke.edu/ducis/civilizations/_ernst.html

"CARL ERNST is a specialist in Islamic studies, with a focus on Iran and South Asia..... A faculty member of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill since 1992, he is now Zachary Smith Professor." He is also very afraid of debating lil ole' Robert from JihadWatch.-LOL

Posted by: Frank at August 28, 2006 7:57 PM

http://www.jhfc.duke.edu/ducis/civilizations/_ernst.html

"CARL ERNST is a specialist in Islamic studies, with a focus on Iran and South Asia..... A faculty member of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill since 1992, he is now Zachary Smith Professor." He is also very afraid of debating lil ole' Robert from JihadWatch.-LOL

Posted by: Frank at August 28, 2006 7:57 PM

I am not interested in having a debate with you...

Look! The emporer has no clothes.

Posted by: limes at August 28, 2006 8:00 PM

Look who owns him.

Posted by: Beagle at August 28, 2006 8:05 PM

Check out this page that details how some Kuwaitis have lined Carl Ernst's pockets with $30,000 cash via the Bashrahil Prize given in Cairo: http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1223
[snip]
She concludes, "Some cultivated Arabs believe that the author [Carl Ernst] joins his voice to the voices of the elite thinkers (like Edward Said) in rejecting the notion of an absolute totalizing concept of Islam, which customarily appears in the form of fundamentalist groups, as Islam in the eyes of the West.[snip]

http://uncpress.unc.edu/book_news/news_ernst.html

Posted by: markjames at August 28, 2006 8:14 PM

"Abdullah Karim" was a real muslim like Ernst is a real islamic scholar. Just another low-life trolling for juicy anti-islamic quotes from "right-wingers," and trying to stir people up.

His phony broken English was pretty funny though--especially when it would miraculously improve when necessary.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at August 28, 2006 8:23 PM

Karl Ernst was one the leaders of the Storm Troopers. This guy looks familiar. I wonder if he is related to that Ernst. I would not be surprised if he was a relative...LOL. Maybe he has good reasons for hiding out....

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:iymmhXGC3OUJ:www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm+karl+ERNST,+nazi&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=27

Posted by: Frank at August 28, 2006 8:28 PM

Frank,

"Zachary Smith" Professor??

I didn't know that!

Oh, the pain!

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at August 28, 2006 8:28 PM

Beagle/Mark; great links

If conservatives of African descent are called Oreos, what do you call a white guy who accepts tens of thousands of dollars in 'awards' and makes statements like:

'She particularly emphasized the point that my book makes regarding phenomena such as extremism and terrorism, as being the results of particular modern political mentalities rather than being somehow essentially part of Islam.'

This point probably earned the Professor a free tank of gas.

Posted by: limes at August 28, 2006 8:29 PM

"Dear Mr. Spencer,
I am not interested in having a debate with you, and I stand by my remarks on the biased and nonscholarly nature of your publications and publishers.

Sincerely,
Carl Ernst"

These aren't nice things to say, but, strictly speaking, Mr. Ernst does not admit here that what Spencer says is wrong. Having bias and being 'nonscholarly' do not imply falsehood. If they did then every newspaper editorial ever written would contain nothing but falsehoods.

That is not to say that one should agree that Spencer's works are 'nonscholarly'. Ernst seems prone to using adjectives related to academia in creative and incredible ways; he dares to list Mark Levine's web page as an 'academic site'.

Here is Levine's nauseating biography from that site, and Hugh Fitzgerald's tribute to Levine, which should be posted in the halls of the history department at UC Irvine.

http://www.meaning.org/levinebio.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004273.php

Levine the scholar. Spencer the nonscholar. A strange world to live in indeed.

Posted by: JTF at August 28, 2006 8:36 PM

Instead of a debate, why not a specific question that deserves to be answered.

A few years ago, entering freshman at the University of North Carolina were required to read "Approaching the Qur'an: The Early Revelations" by Michael Sells. This bowdlerized version of the Qur'an, turning it into some kind of cross between Rumi and Omar Khayyam, conveyed absolutely nothing to those hapless freshman about what Islam, or about what the Qur'an, is all about. Leaving aside the Sunna, reducing the Qur'an to those softer "Meccan" suras," it was a guide to nothing at all.

Sells himself, I think, may even be coming around to the fact that his recension has missed something. He may, by degrees, come to realize that his "Approaching the Qur'an" deceives. But he has his own investment in it, and perhaps his reluctance to realize the folly of offering young people, young Americans, a further prolonging of their misundsterstanding and naive trust that "all religions teach the same thing" -- of course they don't -- might be understood on that basis (it would be fascinating to hear from Michael Sells himself on whether he now has just a bit of a doubt about what, for example, the great Western scholars of Islam, and of the Qur'an -- let's try to imagine what Crone or Hawting or Ibn Warraq or Luxenburg would make of this, or what any of the thousands of native speakers of Arabic who have become defectors from Islam would say about the pedagogic value of "Approaching the Qur'an."

Yet Carl Ernst, a professor at the University of North Carolina who taught Islam, was all for this exercise in disinformation. He saw nothing wrong, he saw everything right, in pushing this forced mental march through what essentially is no different from the propaganda of an army of apologists who, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, have been having the time of their lives pullng the wool, through the deployment of taqiyya and tu-quoque, over the eyes of all kinds of unsuspecting Infidels.

So at least one question -- not a debate question in the context of some non-appearance with Robert Spencer, but a question that has been waiting to be put, so that a clear answer might be given, needs to be pointedly put to Carl Ernst, who no doubt is infuriated by the notion that anyone outside the cozy and well-patrolled confines of MESA, MESA Nostra, should have the gall to ask him anything, much less expect him to supply an answer.

But such a question exists. And Carl Ernst owes an answer to that question, owes it to the affected students who in the past were required to derive their knowledge of Islam from "Approaching the Qur'an," owes it to the parents of those students, owes it to other faculty members in the University of North Carolina system who may not like the idea, may not approve of the idea, of that kind of apologetics calling into question support for the university, from intellignet and inquisitive alumni, and trustees, and members of the North Carolina legislature. Not everyone on that faculty is a wilting violet, not all will be inclined to defer to his "credentials" and his "expertise" quite so readily as he may think -- there are all kinds of deservedly self-assured people on the faculty there who may have taken it upon themselves, in the years since that brouhaha over Required Reading, to find out for themselves, by reading and studying, not only what the Qur'an contains, but what it means, and what "naskh" or abrogation means, and further, what the hadith are all about, and what is the tremendous significance of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, and every detail of his life, including the Khaybar Oasis attack, the decapitation of the Banu Qurayza, the assassinations of Asma bint Marwan and Abu Akaf, and of course little Aisha, on her swing, and with her toys.

And this is the question:

Why did you, Carl Ernst, who knows the contents of the Qur'an, knows about the interpretive doctrine of abrogation, knows the hundreds of violent verses against the Unbeliever, knows what the Qur'an has been taken to mean through time and space by Believers, knows of the uncomromising division between Believer and Infidel, knows what the Hadith -- the Hadith of Al-Bukhari and Muslim -- further offer as a gloss on the Qur'an, and what the Sira, the biography or biograpohies of Muhammad, offer by way of the Perfect Man suitable for emulation -- why did you not only see nothing wrong, but everything right with the idea of inflicting, as a requirement, on innocent incoming freshman, at a time when it was clear that an intelligent knowledge of Islam was important for reasons of national security, and was not something to be trifled with -- why were you so enthusiastic about the use of that so-called version of the Qur'an, that travesty known as "Approaching the Qur'an: The Early Revelations" (or was it "The Lyrical Suras" -- I forget) which even its compiler, one suspects, must be beginning to question.

Don't answer here. Forget Jihad Watch. But in another forum, answer that question. Answer your colleagues. Answer those students and their parents. Answer discontented alumni, and trustees, and members of the legislature of North Carolina, some of whom will have the contents of this query made known to them, and not all of them are likely to be charitable when egregious examples of educational malpractice are brought to their attention.

Posted by: Hugh at August 28, 2006 8:40 PM

"A faculty member of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill since 1992, he is now Zachary Smith Professor"

Jihad hit the heart of his university, and he still filters that datum through his PC Multiculturalist template. It's easier than thinking.

Posted by: remote_control at August 28, 2006 8:43 PM

Robert, perhaps by "biased and nonscholarly " he is referrring to your quotes from the koran. After all, you can't quote from a more biased and nonscholarly work than that absurd piece of seventh century fiction.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at August 28, 2006 8:54 PM

The link given above leads to a picture of Dr. Carl W. Ernst, as he receives the Distinguished Prize in the Humanities at the Bashrahil Prize award ceremony in Cairo on July 4, 2004. Here is the accompanying text:

"UNC ISLAM SPECIALIST WINS NEW ARAB PRIZE

(Chapel Hill, N.C.) Dr. Carl W. Ernst, professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a leading scholar of Islam, received a major new prize from an Arab cultural organization in Cairo on July 4.

The Distinguished Prize in the Humanities, which carries a $30,000 cash award, was established this year in Egypt by the board of trustees of the Shaykh Muhammad Salih Bashrahil Prize for Outstanding Cultural Achievement.

Ernst won one of four distinguished prizes awarded in different fields to recognize "an Arab who stands out for his pioneering role and impressive accomplishment on the Arab cultural scene, or a notable figure, Arab or foreign, whose role has been effective and influential in the fields of social and humanistic activity."

Ernst was awarded the prize for his recent book Following Muhammad: Rethinking Islam in the Contemporary World (UNC Press). The book introduces readers to Islam’s ethics, practices, spirituality, and culture, while clarifying the diversity and debate within the tradition. It concludes with an overview of critical debates on important contemporary issues such as gender and veiling, state politics, and science and religion.

Other distinguished prizes were awarded to Amre Moussa, Secretary–General of the Arab League, and to the prominent Arab poet Adonis. Ernst was the only American among eight winners of the distinguished prizes and juried awards.

The Bashrahil Prize, awarded for the first time this summer, aspires to be comparable to the Pulitzer Prize in the United States, or the Booker Prize in the United Kingdom, as a recognition of literary and cultural achievement.

The prizes honor the late Shaykh Muhammad Salih Bashrahil, who was an eminent philanthropist in Mecca.

"I am particularly encouraged by this honor conferred by an Arab cultural organization, especially at this time," said Ernst, who presented a brief acceptance speech in Arabic. "This recognition of my book is an important statement about shared humanistic values that transcend political boundaries. It is also a great honor for me to be recognized alongside such outstanding contributors to modern Arabic literature and culture."

Departing from the usual Arab–centric bias, Ernst's book addresses Euro-Americans and illuminates the diversity of Muslim societies and thought. It describes how Protestant definitions of religion and anti–Muslim prejudice have affected how Islam has come to be viewed in Europe and America. It also explores the contemporary importance of Islam in both its traditional locations and its new homes.

"Numerous publications repeat incessantly the charge that terrorism is inseparable from Islam," observed Ernst. "I argue to the contrary that we must seek instead what others have called a dialogue among civilizations. Knowledge and respectful exchange should be our goals, rather than conflict. I am hopeful that my book, both in English and in translations into other languages, will help enable increased communication and dialogue between Americans, Europeans, and Muslims around the world."

Following Muhammad is being translated into Arabic, Indonesian, and Korean.

"My principal goal has been to change the focus of humanistic study in the American academy, so that Islamic culture and civilization are included as normal subjects of study, rather than as exotic and remote topics of interest only to specialists," Ernst said.

Carl W. Ernst is Zachary Smith Distinguished Term Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Ernst is also author of Sufi Martyrs of Love: Chishti Sufism in South Asia and Beyond, among other books.

Following Muhammad was published in hardcover by the University of North Carolina Press in October, 2003. The paperback version will be released on August 30, 2004.

The book was published in the United Kingdom, Europe, and the Middle East under the title Rethinking Islam in the Contemporary World by Edinburgh University Press."

Why do I suspect that "Following Muhammad" would not be recognized by Snouck Hurgronje, or St. Clair Tisdall, or Sir William Muir, or Tor Andrae, or Maxine Rodinson, or David Margoliouth,or Joseph Schacht, or Ignaz Goldziher, as presenting a recognizable view of Muhammad, while the straightforward presentation of Muhammad's life, as set down by the most authoritative Muslim biographers, which is what Robert Spencer has done in his forthcoming (October 9) biography of Muhammad -- "polemical" and "unscholarly" as Ernst may try to dismiss it, as will 3/4 of the membership of MESA Nostra, while the remaining 1/4 will be secretly delighted with Spencer's book, and only wish that they had dared to produce something similar, but had too much, departmentally, to lose, so it required an intelligent outsider to do the necessary job, and Spencer came along, and did it.

Posted by: Hugh at August 28, 2006 8:55 PM

Carl Ernst's book on Muhammad leaves out all the unsettling and disturbing and indelicate parts, and gives us something as if viewed through Karen Armstrong's vie-en-rose tinted glasses, or to bait-and-switch those metaphors, appears to be just one muddy footstep behind the jogging shoes of lean, mean John Esposito in the Apologist's Marathon, which Esposito has won as many times as the East Africans win the Boston Marathon, but judging by Ernst's recent Cairo prize, he may be coming up on the outside, threatening Esposito's lead, and yes, my god, yes, there may be an upset in the offing.

Posted by: Hugh at August 28, 2006 9:02 PM

Ernst admits in the Preface to Following Muhammad that his treatment of Islam in that work is 'sympathic', which is an admission of bias:

"What is offered here is a sympathetic yet reasoned and analytical view of the Islamic religious tradition and the contemporary issues that Muslims face."

And his sympathies are made clear in later comments about his intention to humanize Muslims, whom he has come to know and love. Does such commentary belong in a nonbiased, scholarly work, even if true?

And then he says this about the form of the book,

"To make the book more accessible, I have written it in the form of an essay, only lightly burdened by notes except to give due credit or pointers to additional sources, including materials available on the Internet."

Are 'essays' that lack adequate references and evidence 'nonscholarly'? Such 'essays' should, at the very least, not count as high scholarship.

So, at best, Following Muhammad, by the author's own admissions, is biased and to some degree 'nonscholarly'.

These should not be considered bad things by the author of a work like Following Muhammad.

Posted by: JTF at August 28, 2006 9:13 PM

FELTHY KUFFAR U ALL WILL ROT IN JAHANNAM INSHALLAH WITH YOUR IDOLS AND CROSSES AND STARS OF DEVIDS AND WE WILL BE THE BLESSED IN JANNAH WITH ALLAH AND ALL HIS RASOOLI PROPHETS

IS THERE LIMITS TO YOUR HATRED OF TRUTH
IS THERE LIMITS TO YOUR IDOLATRY
IS THERE LIMITS TO YOUR DFIANCE OF
"ALLAH"
IS THERE LIMITS TO YOUR MATERALISM GREED
IS THERE LIMITS TO YOUR DEVIATION FORM STRAIGHT PATH OF "ALLAH"

"LA ILAHA ILA ALLAH MUHAMMAD RASOOLALLAH"

"SALAAM" TO ALL "TRUE BELIEVERS"

DEATH TO KUFFAR PIGS AND APE AND DOGS

Posted by: ABUHURAIRAH at August 28, 2006 9:22 PM

Well, canyou feel the love and peace yet? Our visitor above is a prime example of the RoP®

Posted by: Carolyn2 at August 28, 2006 9:25 PM

"I am not interested in having a debate with you, and I stand by my remarks on the biased and nonscholarly nature of your publications and publishers."

- Carl Ernst, UNC

One could ask precisely how Ernst's publishers are UNbiased, so different from Spenser's, so ecumenical, so open, so honest. What is his distinction? Where are his markers of veracity? What is his evidence?

I am torn. Is he cowardly, or actually fraudulent? Unsubstantiated rumour is not what university professors are supposed to engage in. This is intellectual dishonesty at best.

As a member of academia, I find myself embarrassed by Ernst. Apologies to all around.

Prophet Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at August 28, 2006 9:25 PM

ABU clearly has never been with a woman. Perhaps a goat or a small chicken.

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 28, 2006 9:26 PM

It is quite obvious that Dr. Ernst does not want to debate Robert for fear of losing his current standing in the 'intellectual' mohammedan world. A debate with our host would require him to rethink and redefine the flawed concepts he embraces about the submission cult. Dr. Ernst would have to make admissions to the truth and would not be able to refute the facts that would documented in a debate with Robert.

The esteemed professor of the 'religion of peace' is practicing the mohammedan art of deception or 'taqiyya'. In Ernst's eyes, the subject must not be debated or discussed, because in reality his positions are indefensible in the light of truth. And to protect himself from having the truth revealed, and thereby losing credibility, Ernst attempts to dismiss Robert and place him on a lower level by using the terms "biased" and "unscholarly". Any debate would require this proponent of mohammedism to give direct answers documented by passages from the quran, thus assuring his defeat and a win for the side of truth. Robert wins by default.

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith." (Surah 5:101-102).

Posted by: Kreuzueber Halbmond at August 28, 2006 9:27 PM

ABUHURAIRAH URKTUL ISLAM ABEED.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at August 28, 2006 9:37 PM

Be nice Bohemond; the poor guy is suffering 70 generations of 'Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another.' - 48:25

Posted by: limes at August 28, 2006 9:43 PM

ABU, are you Carl Ernst, aka the Imam of Franklin and Rosemary? Come on! Out with it! LALALALALALALALALALALALLALALALAALAL... show your burka baby!!!

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at August 28, 2006 9:44 PM

Limes, I forgot that islam is the religion of piss. So piss on him and his household.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at August 28, 2006 9:46 PM

HOHO........... THAT WAS GOOD!!!!!
ROTFL!!!!!!!!
SORRY... COULDN'T RESIST IT!!!!

Posted by: ABUHURAIRAH at August 28, 2006 9:50 PM

ABUHURAIRAH, if there is one thing I am sure of, it is that you and your co-religionists will spend eternity with allah.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at August 28, 2006 9:54 PM

My sincere apologies due to:
Carolyn2
Bohemond_1069
MadrassasippiBurnin
limes

I had the pleasure of making an acquaintance of
a brainwashed Muslim fool, that's the way he used to talk.

Posted by: ABUHURAIRAH at August 28, 2006 9:58 PM

Abuhurairah, aka Chinubhai (we have your IP address):

Not funny. It's bad enough that one troll derailed the thread.

Posted by: MarisolJW at August 28, 2006 10:00 PM

Folks,

I think the trolls are all coming out of the woodwork!

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at August 28, 2006 10:26 PM

Robert,

Ernst evidently isn't interested in the empirical truth about the Islam that kills apostates and discriminates against women, etc., but would rather pursue his fantasies about Sufism (I wonder if he's read al-Ghazali?). Sometimes it takes a direct challenge to expose their clear bias. Here we have seen a scholar who makes strong claims but won't back them up. I give him an "F."

Posted by: Archimedes at August 28, 2006 10:36 PM

Hugh,

Hell of a question....beautifully worded....and one that David Horowitz would undoubtedly endorse whole-heartedly.

Posted by: Cornelius at August 28, 2006 10:36 PM

Back on topic. I’ve spent the last seven years in a brutally competitive industry, where ‘institutional’ respect means nothing. I’ve worked with guys with PhD’s (every one had it on their business cards), MBA’s, BA’s, and on down. I can make a definitive statement that if there is a correlation between educational achievement and success in the marketplace, it is a negative one.

The richest man I’ve ever met worked for the government, until he became disabled at a young age. Unemployed, he picked up a hammer and started building houses. He was smart, schrewd, and worked long hours. He achieved success and kept going. And you should see how bank presidents cow-tow to him today.

With two exceptions, the people that I’ve met who have achieved true success in the marketplace have not attended college.

I am not interested in having a debate with you…

Pedant.

Posted by: limes at August 28, 2006 10:36 PM

Definitions :

"biased" - not willing to believe Islamic Propaganda

"nonscholarly" - means "non-Leftist"

Posted by: non-redneck at August 28, 2006 10:42 PM

Carl Ernst is too modest. Not only is he a prize-winnig author, recognized for his services to the better world-wide appreciation of Muhammad with his book, a masterpiece -- what Robert Spencer only pretends to be able to do -- of haute vulgarisation, and might as well hold the haute. That book, or rather that series of essays, is by authorial intention devoid of the usual apparatus criticus of scholarly books. Apparently Carl Ernst wished to put off, off, those scholarly lendings, and to let down his hair, and deliberately present the kind of "unscholarly text" (no doubt contributors to the Encyclopedia of Islam will sniff, but let them -- what do they know?), easy on the footnotes, in order to find and please that wider audience that perhaps had eluded him with his previous scholarly contribution "The Shambhala Guide to Sufism" which, I am informed, was a book that Clarendon Press would dearly like to have published, if Shambhala Publishing hadn't gotten there first, and as for the reaction to that book in the Departments of Islamic Studies at Leiden, Aix-en-Province, and Cambridge at the news, later on, that the author of "The Shambhala Guide to Sufism" had received tenure at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill -- well, I don't have to tell you.

Here is an interview with Carl Ernst, previously reprinted at Campus Watch:

:Questions and Answers with Carl Ernst on the Bashrahil Prize for Outstanding Cultural Achievement in the Humanities awarded for Following Muhammad: Rethinking Islam in the Contemporary World (UNC Press, 2003)
UNC Press
May 7, 2004
http://www.unc.edu/%7Ecernst/FollowingMuhammad/Q&A.htm

How was the book nominated?

Very unexpectedly, I was contacted by Dr. Seham al-Freih, a professor of Arabic literature at Kuwait University, on May 7, when she called to ask me to accept the prize. I had never heard of the Bashrahil Prize, because this year is the first time it has been awarded. After making inquiries, I learned that the foundation established for the Bashrahil Prize is an organization dedicated to the support of literature and culture, and on that basis I was happy to accept the award.

How did Dr. Al-Freih become aware of the book, and why did she nominate it?

Dr. Al-Freih visited North Carolina in January 2004 to take part in the Muslim Networks Consortium meeting held at Duke University; she had been invited by Prof. miriam cooke (Duke) when the latter visited Kuwait to evaluate the Arabic program at the university there. The Muslim Networks Consortium, now consisting of nearly thirty universities in the US and a number of other countries, was created by a group of scholars at Duke and UNC, based on a series of seminars that began in 1999. The aim of the Muslim Networks Consortium is to create new models for Islamic studies, moving away from academic Orientalism, Middle East area studies, and inter-religious dialogue. By using analytical tools such as network analysis, and by embodying a new academic network that cuts across existing boundaries between academic disciplines and geographic regions, this group hopes to bring Islamic studies into the heart of the humanities and social sciences in the American university, instead of relegating them to the status of an exotic subject reserved for specialists. Literature and the arts are key elements for the Muslim Networks project. Among the fruits of the Muslim Networks Consortium is a new publication series called Islamic Civilization and Muslim Networks, published by the University of North Carolina Press; my book Following Muhammad is the first book of the series, and its publication was one of the items discussed at the workshop.

Dr. Al-Freih was very impressed by what she saw of our efforts, and she expressed the wish to support this new initiative. As a member of the jury for the Bashrahil Prize, she was in a position to take action by nominating Following Muhammad for the prize at its board meeting in May; she did so with a 7-page letter in Arabic that summarized the contents of the book and highlighted its main features, especially the fact that it is written in a clear style that is accessible to non-specialist readers.. She particularly emphasized the point that my book makes regarding phenomena such as extremism and terrorism, as being the results of particular modern political mentalities rather than being somehow essentially part of Islam. She concludes, "Some cultivated Arabs believe that the author joins his voice to the voices of the elite thinkers (like Edward Said) in rejecting the notion of an absolute totalizing concept of Islam, which customarily appears in the form of fundamentalist groups, as Islam in the eyes of the West. Through the attempt to demonstrate that there is pluralism in Islam, this diversity reaches the difference of traditions in Muslim societies wherever they are. The author also calls for the need to recognize the importance of seeing these different kinds of pluralism within Islam."

Why was Following Muhammad nominated for this prize, rather than other books on Islam?

Muslims around the world have become acutely aware that, especially since the terrorist attacks against US targets in September 2001, there has been a spate of publications in America that have increasingly argued that terrorism is inextricably associated with Islam. These anti-Islamic publications range from the urbane and scholarly condemnations of modern Islamic countries by Samuel Huntington and Bernard Lewis to the rabid denunciations of Islam emanating both from right-wing think tanks and fundamentalist Christian organizations. This stream of negativity causes considerable concern in majority Muslim countries, since these books offer, explicitly or implicitly, a justification for new military incursions that will inevitably be seen as a new colonial regime to the peoples of the Middle East.

Following Muhammad is not an apologetic defense of Islam, nor was it written by a Muslim; defenses of Islam based on Islamic ideals are indeed readily available, but they fail to address the questions raised by the conflicts of recent years. By offering a reasoned critique of colonialism as well as a critique of ideologies like fundamentalism, Following Muhammad demonstrates that it is possible for an American author to provide a fair-minded introduction to Islam for non-Muslims. The book also provides access to Islamic civilization and culture from aesthetic and ethical perspectives, which can be appreciated by readers of any background, and it makes clear how the Qur'an and especially the Prophet Muhammad function as centers for the values and aspirations of Muslims from many backgrounds. Moreover, by emphasizing the multiplicity and pluralism characteristic of Muslim societies throughout history, the book makes it possible to reconsider the phenomenon of Islam from a non-fundamentalist perspective (whether on the part of Muslims or non-Muslims).

What is the purpose of the prize, and who were the other winners?

The Bashrahil Prize for Outstanding Cultural Achievement was intended primarily as a recognition and encouragement of artistic creativity in the different areas of Arabic literature. In this respect it aspires to achieve what the Pulitzer Prize does in America, or the Booker Prize in the UK. While certain other major cultural prizes have existed previously in Arab countries (e.g., the King Faisal Prize offered by the Saudi government, and the Owais Prize awarded by the Arab Emirates), the Bashrahil Prize is distinctive in being offered by a private family foundation that is headed by an eminent contemporary Arab poet, Dr. Abdullah Bashrahil. With this award, Dr. Bashrahil and his family honor the memory of their father, the late Shaykh Muhammad Salih Bashrahil, who was an eminent philanthropist in Mecca (known particularly for his founding of an important hospital and also for an equestrian school there).

Juried prizes were offered to the following individuals in different fields of Arabic literature, each of whom received $25,000:

Poetry: Chawki Bazih (Lebanon)

Short story and novel: Nabil Sulayman (Syria)

Humanistic and progressive essays: Dr. Yumni Tarif al-Khuli (Egypt, the only woman to receive a prize this year)

Criticism and literary studies: Dr. Muhammad Lutfi al-Yusufi (Tunisia)

Although the board of trustees for the prize had initially decided to award one Distinguished Prize (to Amre Moussa), after discussion of additional nominations, they awarded three more Distinguished Prizes in different fields; all of these received $30,000. The by-laws of the prize describe the Distinguished Prizes as being given "to an Arab who stands out for his pioneering role and impressive accomplishment on the Arab cultural scene, or a notable figure, Arab or foreign, whose role has been effective and influential in the fields of social and humanistic activity."

Politics: Amre Moussa, Secretary General of the Arab League

Literature: Adonis (Ali Ahmed Sa`id), the well-known Paris-based poet of Syrian background

Palestinian Figure: Poet Harun Hashim Rashid

Humanities: American writer, Professor Carl W. Ernst, for his book Following Muhammad.

Who is Dr. Abdullah Bashrahil?

Dr. Bashrahil belongs to a family of south Arabian origin (Yemen, Hadramaut) that has been in Mecca for many years. He also heads the Bashrahil Development Group, a large financial and trading conglomerate in Saudi Arabia. He has published 8 volumes of poetry since 1978, one of which (Sun Medals) is his poetic response to American writers reacting to the 9/11 attacks. His Arabic poetry combines both classical and modern forms, and his writing has been described as progressive and even as feminist in its portrayal of women.[1] He also supports a number of philanthropic organizations, and is Chairman of the Board of the hospital established by his father.

What happened after you were nominated?

Dr. Bashrahil invited me and my wife, Judith Ernst, to come to Cairo for the ceremony on July 4. My acceptance initiated a sequence of communications leading up to our trip to Cairo in early July, and these were conducted largely through the medium of Arabic, by fax and phone. Since I use Arabic primarily for reading classical texts, and I'm not used to composing Arabic prose, this was a challenge, but with the editorial help of a couple of experienced Arabist friends, we were able to maintain communications. Throughout this whole experience, one of the most important things I have come to appreciate is the centrality of the Arabic language for the tasks of inter-cultural communication that lie before us.

As the time grew near for the trip, I had written out in advance the remarks I was asked to make as a brief acceptance speech (5 minutes). I also concluded that it would be important to translate them so I could deliver them in Arabic, both as a convenience for the largely Arabic-speaking audience expected in Cairo, and as a gesture to the fact that the Bashrahil Prize is largely focused on encouraging creative achievement in Arabic literature. It took me at least as long to translate the text as it did to write it. My translation fortunately received some polishing, thanks to the winner of the juried Bashrahil Prize in the poetry category, Lebanese poet Chawki Bazih; he very kindly went over it to improve the style and vocabulary as we sat together in the lobby of the El Gezirah Sheraton the day of the ceremony. The fact that I gave my remarks in Arabic was much appreciated (they had not expected this, and they in fact had arranged for someone to summarize my talk in Arabic – she and I joked about this afterwards).

What was the awards ceremony like?

In a dining room at the El Gezirah Sheraton in Cairo on the evening of July 4, about 300 invited guests plus dozens of reporters were present for the ceremony and following dinner. At the head table were Dr. Mufid Shahab (Egyptian Minister of Higher Education), Dr. Ghazi al-Aridi (Lebanese Minister of Culture), Amre Moussa, Dr. Abdullah Bashrahil, and Dr. Salah Fadl (former Director of the Egyptian National Library), all of whom made remarks, as did each of the awardees after the presentation of the prizes, in a ceremony of about two hours. It was especially well received when Amre Moussa announced that he was donating his prize money to the Arab representation at the upcoming Frankfurt Book Fair, an amount which Dr. Bashrahil consequently doubled to the amount of $60,000.

What is your reaction to the prize?

It is of course a surprise to receive this kind of honor unexpectedly. Beyond that, I think any scholar who studies a foreign culture would be tremendously gratified by this kind of recognition, coming from a cultural organization in the region that he or she is concerned with. I am particularly encouraged by this honor conferred by an Arab cultural organization, at a time when unfortunately relations between the U.S. and Arab and Muslim countries are in such a difficult situation. The study of civilization and culture is concerned with the long view, and the award of this prize for my book is an important statement about shared humanistic values that transcend political boundaries. It is also a great honor for me to be recognized alongside of such outstanding contributors to modern Arabic literature and culture.

Has there been any controversy about the award of one of these prizes to an American writer?

No; far from it. There has in fact been controversy about two of the other Distinguished Prizes, however, for reasons both political and religious. There are a number of people in the Gulf countries (especially Kuwait) who criticized the award made to Amre Moussa, since they still object to the political stand he took against the 1991 Gulf War when he was Foreign Minister of Egypt. In addition, conservatives in Saudi Arabia have vociferously criticized the award to Adonis, since, as a poet who has embraced post-modernism, they regard him as having abandoned traditional Islam. Dr. Bashrahil vigorously defends the award made to Adonis, however, whom he admires as a pioneer and a revolutionary figure in modern Arabic literature, and he objects to the tendency to restrict freedom of thought revealed by this criticism. The nomination of Following Muhammad has, in contrast, been warmly received in the press and by many individuals.

What kind of publicity has the award to Following Muhammad generated?

A good deal of attention has been given to this award in the Arab press, and Dr. Bashrahil gave nonstop interviews for some days afterward. I was interviewed by at least a dozen TV, radio, and newspaper journalists in the first couple of days after the ceremony, both in English and in Arabic, including two interviews with major newspapers that lasted over an hour. An associate of Dr. Bashrahil, an eminent Egyptian poet named Ismael Okab, invited me and my wife to his home on the Mediterranean coast, and he interviewed me extensively over two days before writing his report for The Literary News (Akhbar al-Adab), a well-known weekly journal on Arabic literature that is distributed in the Middle East, Europe, and America. Dr. Seham Al-Freih will also write an article for the Kuwaiti press providing a precis of the contents of the book.

What's next after the prize?

We spent a fair amount of time with Dr. Bashrahil over the next few days. We discussed the publicity that is being prepared for the book by UNC Press and Knowledge Foundry, an advanced instructional unit dedicated to producing MediaBooks emerging from selected UNC faculty research projects. This initial publicity will include a dedicated website (www.FollowingMuhammad.net) that will give details about the book, the Bashrahil Prize, and the pedagogical philosophy underlying the multimedia extensions being planned for Following Muhammad.

Dr. Bashrahil also invited us to join him in Alexandria for an evening of celebration of Arabic poetry (his and others') hosted at the Alexandria Center for Artistic Creativity, a charming and beautifully restored 19th-century palace that includes a school of fine arts.

Dr. Bashrahil plans to commission an Arabic translation of Following Muhammad, and hopes to distribute it extensively in the Middle East. I will consult actively with the Arabic translator to ensure the highest quality in the translation, which I am also doing with translators of the text into French, Turkish, and Persian.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Fatima Sadiqi, Images of Women in Abdullah Bashrahil's Poetry (Beirut: Arab Institute for Research and Publishing, 2003)."

Read his responses. Take his measure. Think about his occupying a tenured professorship -- a named chair -- at one of the best, and most desirable universities in the United States. Worried about the state of Islamic studies in the United States?

If you wish to worry more, google "MESA Nostra" and "Jihad Watch" and "Posted by Hugh." There is no importance in being Ernst. He is one of many. They have the field surrounded.

Posted by: Hugh at August 28, 2006 10:49 PM

One must extend a little forgiveness to Carl Ernst, Ernst Zundel and . . .

y: ABUHURAIRAH at August 28, 2006 09:22 PM

Did you notice the frustration and rage expressed by comments all in upper case?

Those poor Islamonazies. There are Persian supreacists who once ruled the ME and now Mahoud *Almondjeans has had a vision and he thinks they should rule the whole ME once again.

Islamonazies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Qatar, Saydi Arabia, Northern Iraq, Turkey, Morrocco and Egypt are just a few who totally reject the prospect of Iran [Persia] Shia rule.

Frustrating bug that is. Bad for Iran.

Muqtada al-Sadr running around with the *Black bands* kidnapping Sunni and beheading those who don't pay the reansom. Bad for Iran.

Alzawiri handing out money to the confused people of Lebanon for repair of their houses, not realizing it is only a down payment for when their homes are smashed again in the next conflict. Bad for Iran.

Hezbullah is really the Army of Iran. The Lebonese are going to wake up to the fact that homes should be smashed in Iran, not Lebanon. Bad for Iran.

Syria too fears the Persians and never want to be enslaved by them. Bad for Iran.

So you see the Islamonazies have many painful dilemmas to deal with and you must allow them to scream and yell in frustration.

They are so mad they just want to smash everything, including themselves.

Bad for Iran. = TG

Posted by: Anthony Robinson at August 28, 2006 10:51 PM

Baneful influence, Robert? Apparently Abu thinks so, but Abu thinks a lot of abberated things. Reading between his lines I come up with this:
THERE is no LIMITS TO Islams HATRED OF TRUTH
THERE is no LIMITS TO Islams IDOLATRY
THERE is no LIMITS TO Islams DFIANCE OF
"ALLAH"
THERE is no LIMITS TO Islams MATERALISM GREED
THERE is no LIMITS TO Islams DEVIATION FORM STRAIGHT PATH OF "ALLAH"
Sounds like the creed of one of those atheists turned muslim. How about that ABU?? Did Dr Ernst teach that to you?
And by the grease of Allah, ABUHURAIRAH,...'pigs apes and dogs'??? Cant you do any better than that? Allah is disapointed and you know what that means. Never, and I mean never, disappoint Allah. Good luck.

Posted by: duh_swami at August 28, 2006 10:58 PM

Isalm through out history gained grounds passively through setteling lands that it not thiers, then mulplied like roches living like parasites; exactly simmilar to what is happening currently in europe, or aggresivly through the sword "eg. Suadia Arabia flag", kill any one one in their path.

Iraq, syria turkey, egypt , north africa and Isreal were all none arab none muslim countries, arabs had no civilizartion; they leached on the indigenous people, copts, assyrians, chaldeans and creeks, the arab muslims are occupiers and need top get out of there, and hopw could they demand the isreali leave thier land, Isreal is theirs.

Whoever takes by sword, shall be taken by sword, it is the 21 century, we do not need swords, we have the nukes, we do not need to bother with carcasses, HAHA, HAHA we won.....you will see.....

Posted by: aisha at August 28, 2006 11:10 PM

" Islamic scholar Carl Ernst can be found" under a rock as far as l am concerned. this man has been bought by arab muslim petro dollars. only fools follow such men. yes l some regular person but l have more common sense than all those elites who think they can pass off islam as a religion of peace. l say drag them off to Sweden for a sex change, and send them off to Saudi Arabia, and see how well they profess to love islam.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 28, 2006 11:10 PM

aisha you make me laugh, we dont have to do much, the muslims are killing each other faster than Bush could hope for.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 28, 2006 11:15 PM

TRUTH. Stick it to 'em Robert.

Posted by: Matt at August 28, 2006 11:20 PM

Seeing posts such as the allcaps screed by ABU elicit emotions in me starting at anger and getting more primitive by the second.
Therefore, I was pleased that he at least came forward and admitted to trolling, and even apoligised. It brought my blood pressure back to normal.
Not that funny......but not that bad.

Posted by: OneEyedJack at August 28, 2006 11:20 PM

It's a shame that Mr. Ernst wants to attack Mr. Spencer instead of debate the subject. I, for one, would like to hear it. To me, the more information, the better.
Incidentally, I went to a UNC campus and one of my professors was a Muslim sympathizer too. I remember the day after 9/11 happened, all of us students were asking her to give her take on the situation. She said (as well as I can remember her words correctly) "You can't expect America to go swinging a big stick at the world and not get punched in the eye for it."
Maybe it's something about UNC professors...no, wait...most of them are like that.

Posted by: SpongeMom at August 28, 2006 11:40 PM

Good heavens, Robert, how on earth do you put up with the likes of Dr. Carl Ernst without completely losing your cool? In your position I think that I would be gnawing bits out of the ceiling by now. What an arrogant SOB he is! But remember Swift and take comfort from his appreciation of where currently you are with respect to him and his ilk:

"It is a maxim, that those to whom everybody allows the second place, have an undoubted title to the first"

You, sir, have such an undoubted title - in my book.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at August 28, 2006 11:43 PM

My e-mail to Dr. Ernst:

Dear Dr. Ernst,

Where I come from (think red, white, and blue) if you call a man out, you’re duty bound to engage him as an adversary. Should you flip him the bird, it will not suffice to decline his invitation to brawl. If you respond that his mother wears combat boots, you are simply a blowhard and a coward if you attempt to escape his fury.

Where I come from (think amber waves of grain) it’s put up or shut up. But you do not shut up. You couldn’t simply decline Robert’s Spencer’s invitation. You had to work in an affirmation of your contempt for him. So you flip him the bird and remind him his mother wears combat boots.

Where I come from (think apple pie) we eat spineless college professors for breakfast. Mr. Spencer comes from a quaint village nearby, and he too has an appetite for tenured jellyfish that won’t defend their positions in fair and open exchange. What I want to know is, aren’t you more than a little embarrassed to back down to a public challenge when you hurled the first stone? And the second?

Let me let you in on a little secret to which you are apparently oblivious. In the schoolyard when I was a boy and now in the global arena, punks like you are pathetic and are universally regarded so—that is, from Robert’s followers down to your Tar Heel students, everyone knows you’re a blowhard and a coward. No one is impressed with your CV that boasts a Stanford and Harvard education and prestigious cultural achievement awards if you haven’t the courage of your convictions.

Here’s something you may want to reflect on: the chasm between your worldview and Robert’s is humongous. Quite clearly, one of you is right and one of you is wrong. Alas, in the schoolyard the only thing that was proved was who the better fighter was. Gentleman’s duels only settled the question of who was the better (and faster) shot. But a free and open debate is where one proves who’s right and who’s wrong. In any venue, backing down proves absolutely nothing.

Put up or shut up (think home of the brave).

Sincerely,

Haid Dasalami
Dignus est quicum in tenebris mices.

Posted by: Haid Dasalami at August 28, 2006 11:47 PM

What a coward Mr. Ernst is.

Posted by: Job at August 28, 2006 11:57 PM

Haid Dasalami/

Indeed! My point exactly - and better put, damn it! Compared with Dr. Carl Ernst, Robert is, indeed, the more trustworthy. I would much rather play micatio in the dark with Robert than with the good Doctor.

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at August 29, 2006 12:32 AM

the biased and nonscholarly nature of your publications and publishers

At the same time, Ernst considers the Quran, hadiths, and sage writings of Ahmed Deedat & friends to be....what?

Posted by: yadayada at August 29, 2006 3:22 AM

Carl W. Ernst is Zachary Smith Distinguished Term Professor of Religious Studies

At least he didn't call Robert a "boobitty boob."

Posted by: Shy Guy at August 29, 2006 3:36 AM

"Following Muhammad" was published by a UNC faculty vanity press. I'm sure it lost money IOW North Carolina taxpayers picked up the tab for this Ernst goofball. Who then parlayed this book into a $30,000 welfare check from some Saudis who took a shine to this dhimmi. Got only 3 reviews at Amazon and all reviewers are Muslim. One might be a Christian Arab who has internalized dhimmitude
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0807855774

When Robert's book on Mo' comes out there will be at least 200 reviews and Amazon will have to monitor them because the Muhammadans will react virulently to this expose of their phony baloney prophet

Posted by: dennisw at August 29, 2006 4:41 AM

Dominic:
You quote Swift:
"It is a maxim, that those to whom everybody allows the second place, have an undoubted title to the first."

Did you know Swift was probably alluding to Plutarch? Specifically, to Plutarch's biography of Themistocles, the general most responsible for the ancient Greeks' nearly miraculous victory over the huge Persian fleet at Salamis in 480 B.C. or so. After the great victory, says Plutarch, the Greek generals took ballots, and

each one declared that the first place for bravery belonged to himself, and the second to Themistocles.

Thus Plutarch makes Themistocles' title to first place humorously clear.

Posted by: traeh at August 29, 2006 4:52 AM

Lol! I was going to comment on the "Shambhala Publishers" but Hugh beat me to it. I mention this only because Ernst was chastising Robert about non-scholarly publishers.

Ernst lists an essay by Bernard Lewis under the category of "Colonialism and Anti-Islamic Attitudes". This gives us some idea of what Ernst considers to be acceptable criticism of anything Islamic, i.e., none.

Re his book, "Following Muhammad," how far, and with regard to what?

Posted by: Archimedes at August 29, 2006 5:34 AM

It doesn't do our cause justice when people who use this forum scream "THERE IS NO LIMITS" (sic) over and over again in a posting. Subject-verb agreement never hurt anyone. The cause of awakening people to the dangers posed by fundamentalist Islam is damaged when some of its proponents present themselves as ignorant, illiterate boobs.

Posted by: desertdawg29palms at August 29, 2006 6:02 AM

Folks, the best way to answer this "professor" and others like him is to buy Robert's new book. Turn it into a whopping best-seller. It can be pre-ordered at Amazon.com.

Posted by: Frank at August 29, 2006 6:12 AM

Archimedes

Shambala Publishers
Shambhala Publications - 1.7 miles SW - 300 Massachusetts Ave, Boston, 02115 - (617) 424-0030

This publisher grew from the Shamabala Bookstore on Telegraph Ave in Berkley. It was a fantastic metaphysical New Age bookstore that I spent hours in, in my youth. I'm not a New Age devotee anymore
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=12-09-03&storyID=17903

Posted by: dennisw at August 29, 2006 7:16 AM

nariz!

Thank you!

You reminded me of the old saying: 'Converts make the worst fanatics.'

This is apparently true.

May you always remain atheist.

... 'cause we don't need another Torquemada.

Posted by: Gary at August 29, 2006 7:46 AM

dennisw,

Yes, I had a brief interest in that sort of thing in my youth as well, which is why the name caught my eye. Doesn't exactly fit my idea of objective scholarly stuff, but I guess Ernst could probably do whatever he wants. I'm glad to see he's receiving some "feedback from the community" in this thread.

Posted by: Archimedes at August 29, 2006 7:46 AM

None of the scolars in Islam seem to like to debate any longer...I suppose it's because people have made it their buisness to learn and now they can't deny the facts...Read and read more...Learn all you can...Watch the Islamic scholars of lies, crumble...That is good news, isn't it?!

Posted by: herself at August 29, 2006 8:33 AM

Many of the comments posted against islam were not but the mere words of adolesent/immature people who dont even bother to see "the other side of the coin" if any one of you have read the story of the blind men and the elephants then one would understant what i mean. one should see all fascets of any issue, if one does not, then it shows that one is to ignorrent to learn.

"The best reply to a fool is silence'"
- Ali Bin Abi Talib (RAL)-

Posted by: Umar at August 29, 2006 8:34 AM

I would like anybody to e-mail me in what they think about what i send.

Posted by: Umar at August 29, 2006 8:39 AM

Umar: "one should see all fascets of any issue"

Some facets are more important than others. If one of the facets is "kill apostates," and another is "kill those who curse the prophet," and another is "fight them until all religion is for Allah," and so on, why should we care about the nice Meccan "be patient with the disbelievers because they are senseless" facets?

In any case, aren't you tacitly admitting that there are some bad facets with your analogy above?

Posted by: Archimedes at August 29, 2006 8:52 AM

Umar: "one should see all fascets of any issue"

Some facets are more important than others. If one of the facets is "kill apostates," and another is "kill those who curse the prophet," and another is "fight them until all religion is for Allah," and so on, why should we care about the nice Meccan "be patient with the disbelievers because they are senseless" facets?

In any case, aren't you tacitly admitting that there are some bad facets in your analogy above?

Posted by: Archimedes at August 29, 2006 8:53 AM

Gosh, he SOUNDS like a Muslim. If you can't win an argument or answer a question....you change the subject, refuse to answer or lie.

Carl, you're an idiot.

Posted by: The Goobs at August 29, 2006 9:00 AM

Facts, facts, facts - the bane of those without facts. Those without facts tend to be liberals, leftist, anti-capitalists, anti-Americanists, pro-Islamic jihaditst terrorist fascist sympathizers, useful idiot, and other goofballs.

Robert, please, please, please keep smashing the facts into the Islamic terrorist sympathizers and into the public domain.

Eventually, after the Islamic terrorists WMD/nuke the US, those left will be able to pick up our provided information and then we will turn every townlet above 500