Seems the Brits are waking up! The slimy Slug Inayat Bunglawala is taking another pasting today on the Guardian Unlimited CiF: The comments are amazing! Plenty of quotes from the Quran:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2006/09/talking_to_alqaida.html

This follows on from last week's spat:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2006/08/an_honest_debate.html

Posted by: mekkarekka at September 5, 2006 7:26 AM

>>>Yesterday, his shocked family protested: "Our son is no terrorist."

LoL.....which mo family is going to admit their sons are terrorists:))

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 5, 2006 7:27 AM

mekkarekka

I posted to Bunglawala's blog. Lot's of fun there. Brit's aren't taking any crap from this pasty faced, mealy mouthed Musulman

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/inayat_bunglawala/2006/09/talking_to_alqaida.html

Posted by: dennisw at September 5, 2006 7:40 AM

So combine criminality and an intense hatred of a society that has you sussed. You want revenge for your own inadequacy; you want to get back at that society because you have failed to take on board the education and the opportunities that are available to EVERYONE but still it is society’s fault.

What to you do?

Perfect answer, join up with the other deluded no-mark’s in converting to the “Religion of Peace”. They of course tell you that your revenge, your hatred and spite is a holy duty. What more justification do these pathetic idiot’s need?

Posted by: Turbinehead at September 5, 2006 7:47 AM

Abu Abdullah was arrested in this sweep!! That is one nasty looking thug. He's of Turkish Cypriot extraction. Former soccer coach. Now full beard and full time thug in service to the phony god Mohammed he worships

PHOTO:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/front/map/abdullah.html

Posted by: dennisw at September 5, 2006 8:00 AM

"Beatrice said: "Gilbert was a strong Christian like the rest of the family until he got married. Now he wears Muslim clothes and goes to the mosque, but I accept his new religion, which he keeps to himself."
Beatrice, a gospel choir singer, said she learned her son had been arrested when police phoned her .... He didn't come home and I was worried. "

Beatrice, you are an embarrassment to Christianity. You obviously don't know anything about Christian doctrine, and absolutely zero about the "new religion". How the hell did you "accept" it?

A gospel singer! What are you singing now? "oh lawd my baby, my BABY!! oh lawd hep me!" You didn't give a sh_t when he became apostate from Christianity, why should you give a sh_t now?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 5, 2006 8:12 AM

Please believe me when I say that the vast majority of British people are heartily sick of the rabid murderers in our midsts. We would like nothing better than to have them all deported... but our pathetic 'government' is hamstrung by its own Human Rights Act. It seems the rights of terrorists take presidence over those of us normal people...

Posted by: StevenXBrown at September 5, 2006 8:19 AM

It is pretty ironic that so many of these men were of West Indian origin. It is especially interesting to note that the 40th anniversary (20 April 1968) of the famous “Rivers of Blood” speech by Enoch Powell is coming up in just about 18 months.

Quote,
...here is the means of showing that the immigrator communities can organise to consolidate their members, to agitate and campaign against their fellow citizens, and to overawe and dominate the rest with the legal weapons which the ignorant and the ill-informed have provided. As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood".

The speech finished Powell off as a politician and his views were derided as extreme and racist. He was concerned at the number of West Indians coming to the UK would be a destabilising force. At that time, the West Indians were a decent law abiding group and it seemed a bit hard to believe. However, I bet Powell never imagined that it would take one generation and contact with Islam to turn West Indians into killers for the pan-Arabic cause! History never turns out exactly as you think.

Poetically, he may have seen the Tiber but many of us are trying to ignore the same image of the Thames…and maybe later, the Potomac.

Posted by: Peterborough at September 5, 2006 8:25 AM

Concerned Citizen, yes your's was my first response too, but it my be wrong.

This guy's mother is devout Christian who maybe just wanted the best for her son, and has zero 'real' knowledge of Islam. Her son is not going to reveal a plot's plans(or extremist notions) to his mother. He was probably 'told' not to breath a word to anyone. Recall M. Atta et al. They were also warned not to tell anybody.

So here you have a Christian lady, a hard working immigrant, who wants the best for her kid, without true knowledge of Islam, and even if she had such knowledge, would it have made a dime's worth of difference?

Now, all is lost for her. She lost her son to a cult of a religion. He and she wouldn't been in jail, branded a traitor, without his conversion and embrace of Islam. In that, I truly feel sorry for her. So young Christian kids . . . especially those from poor, black, immigrant communities . . . are targets for 'submission' to Islam. Makes sense; a good recruting ploy for the Islamists, jail is another. Go after the young, down on their luck, at the margins of society. It is not an exuse of this guy's actions, but I can't help to feel deeply for his mother.

Blaming her is like blaming a mother because her son is hooked on heroin. Maybe she was a bad mother, but kids have some feel will too, or maybe he was just a bad seed; again, this is not her fault.

In a world without so many Muslims in England, in a world without Islam, these young mother's of Christian Immigrants in England might have turned out differently. I make a distinction between this Ghadan(Pearlman) or Lindh; these specific guys were rich--but, obviously, screwed in the head(and screwed to hve screwed up parents); but the 'story' with these Christian immigrants to England and their son's conversions could be an entirely different thing.

Posted by: biorabbi at September 5, 2006 8:25 AM

>>>Yesterday, his shocked family protested: "Our son is no terrorist."

LoL.....which mo family is going to admit their sons are terrorists:))

Posted by: Crows&Cows

They only brag about their sons after they have blown themselves up and killed a load of innocent civilians.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 5, 2006 9:01 AM

I can't help but wonder, what possesses a free thinking individual to decide to join a cult and blow themselves up?

Posted by: mustang65 at September 5, 2006 9:05 AM

Biorabbi,

I appreciate your sentiments, but the crux of my exhortation is a response to "I accept his new religion".

Based on what?!? That he "keeps it to himself"?

She was and is a bad mother. If instead of saying "I accept ...", she had said, "I tried talking to him ..." you wouldn't have been bothered by my post. I pity her, too. She's wrapped up in the trappings of her faith without the substance, and now has lost her son because of it.

She couldn't have stopped him from becoming a Muslim. But she can't claim the name "Christian" and "accept" it. An atheist or animist parent shouldn't "accept" such without investigation, either.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 5, 2006 9:20 AM

Biorabbi, thanks for saying some of what I was going to say. A Christian mother, not knowing what the "draw" of Islam is for her son, might be relieved that even if he's left his own religion, he's at least still "religious." Unfortunately, the draw of Islam really does seem more and more to be its violence and its encouragement to act out many of one's worst impulses -- at least for men.

It's significant that most other belief systems (including secular ones) base their truth claims on ... well, truth. Someone converting to the belief system would do so on the grounds that the system had somehow proven itself to be a valid way of looking at everything. Islam's call to conversion is entirely different; it's based on power. Not just the threat "convert or die," but even the claim that "Islam is stronger," a claim we've been hearing more frequently these days. Not that it's true, but that it holds power. There's little attempt to convince intellectually, but rather a call to join the winning army: might makes right. And that's a powerful appeal to people already inclined toward arrogance and violence.

Posted by: Columba at September 5, 2006 9:27 AM

"A Christian mother, not knowing what the "draw" of Islam is for her son, might be relieved that even if he's left his own religion, he's at least still 'religious.'"
Posted above.

What an impotent, misty accepting portrait of motherhood and Christianity you two paint.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 5, 2006 9:43 AM

Oh, and Concerned Citizen, apparently we were posting at the same time (and we may be doing it again, even as I type), so let me clarify what I meant by the "relief" of the mother. She most likely saw that her son still believed in God (i.e., Allah, and whether we believe Allah is a valid deity is immaterial here), and trusted that this tenuous link to the divine was better than his becoming a complete atheist. She may even have been impressed by the fact that he prayed five times a day, without understanding the nature of the prayers. After all, haven't many other people fallen for the propaganda about the Religion of Peace and its inner struggle for virtue and all the rest of the veneer? There are even Christian clergy who refer to Islam as "one of the world's great religions." What was this woman to think?

I may be misreading her mindset, but there's no call to single her out for anger or call her a bad Christian, when we really don't know how much she knows about Islam or what her initial reactions actually were. For that matter, we don't even know that her comments were reported accurately. I'd rather consider her misled and misguided than actively in favor of apostasy.

Posted by: Columba at September 5, 2006 9:43 AM

From
convert or die
to
convert AND KILL

A big progress.

Posted by: POITIERS-LEPANTO at September 5, 2006 9:50 AM

Yes, Concerned Citizen, I see we were posting at the same time again! So let me add a few notes. No, I don't think all religions are alike, and I'd be heartbroken if someone I loved left the Catholic faith, which I believe to be absolutely true. (Please, people of other religions, don't jump all over me. If I didn't believe it to be true, it wouldn't be my religion.) But I also have many friends who are Protestants, Jews, agnostics, and atheists, with a couple of Hindus thrown in for good measure. A few are even fallen-away Catholics (who don't see themselves as fallen away, but rather as having found more valid truths). I have to "accept" the way they've gone in order to accept them as friends, but that doesn't mean I think their ideas are equally valid. They're mistaken, but until they do things that I believe to be evil, I must trust in God to use whatever link they have to Him to draw them to Him at last.

Does that clarify things for you a bit? My belief in my own religion is adamant. But all I can do for those who've turned away from it is pray for their return -- and work against any evil that they may do. I even pray that the Muslims who truly seek the Good and mistakenly serve the evil may someday discover the true face of the One they thought they were serving.

Sorry to sound so sententious.

Posted by: Columba at September 5, 2006 10:00 AM

"What was this woman to think?"

Columba,

If only ever she was "to think".

Yes, I agree I have animated her in my own mind into a prototypical somnambulant lemming of a mother and Christian and I am projecting on her, and all like her, my animus for those so incurious of their faith and the interests of their offspring that they allow each to be violated without notice.

But, since we don't actually "know" Beatrice, we otherwise would have nothing to talk about, would we?

If this is the quality of "motherhood" and "[inset faith belief system here]" that we find acceptable, we are in a lot of trouble.

Beatrice -- quit the damn choir, and instead spend your practice time with your nose in the Qur'an and dedicate your life to preaching to your son in prison, because they are certainly preaching Islam to him in there.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 5, 2006 10:00 AM

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! ... Who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away justice from the righteous man!"

Most Christians are ignorant of true Islam and the teaching of the Qur'an. They had better wake up and trade their ignorance for knowledge and wisdom; otherwise, the "Religion of Peace" (aka, the religion of Satan, or Shaitan) may consume them or their spiritual babes. When evil masquerades as light, and its ministers as ministers of righteousness -- then spiritual discernment and knowledge is needed, not ignorance. Wake up, true Christians!!!

Posted by: TheEvidentSmoke at September 5, 2006 10:14 AM

I reckon Turbinehead hit the nail on the head. Black boys are noted for low academic achievement, as are Muslim boys. Therefore their job prospects are lower. As a black professor said, "black boys are more interested in rap music than education", and Muslim boys seem to be too Koran-orientated. And low aspirations combined with Islam is a lethal concoction. Yet Hindus, Sikhs and Orientals are generally high achievers and have career prospects similar to white kids. And amongst girls, there seem to be little difference academically across the board between white, black, brown or Oriental, and therefore career opportunities.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at September 5, 2006 10:22 AM

Police believe the group were training to become suicide bombers at a secret camp at Jameah Islameah school in Crowborough, East Sussex.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

The demise of a great society from within is assisted by allowing terrorists training camps to operate and teach in your own lands....England and the USA.......

Does any know if this Jameah Islameah school has been closed down???

If not, why not since England is ahead of the USA in being able to arrest terrorists???

Posted by: Texican at September 5, 2006 10:29 AM

The Bunglawalla-ding-dong offers a bit of Da'awa and outright stupidity. But he seems to believe in his 'Islamic duty' which comes as no surprise. From his writing on the Guardian blog:

MITNAGEDET: If you are really interested then have a read of the following BBC interview I did almost five years ago. I answered a question about bin Ladin in it which may serve to answer your query. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/forum/1555032.stm

And despite what you and the Sunday Telegraph may, Omar Abdul Rahman most certainly did not bomb the World Trade Centre, although he was convicted in a controversial trial in the US on a conspiracy charge. He is a blind man, you see. The Sunday Telegraph is not my paper of choice as you can imagine!

So much for Bunglawalla...

Abdul Rahman may be blind, but he is still the one who instigates and plots and sends his assassins out to kill, maim & destroy. Just like old bucktooth Abu Bakar Bashir of the Bali-bombings 1 & 2... Does that make him 'innocent?' What makes his trial 'controversial?' The blind bastard is in prison for that reason exactly, he should have never been allowed to enter the US in the first place!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 5, 2006 11:13 AM

Europe & North America needs to wake up and let this be a lesson for increasing islamic radicalism from within.

These nations need to close their borders and conduct a full investigation of every applicant before coming to these countries, even if this pre-approval process takes 10 years.

In the meantime we can work to find the terrorists within and deal with them accordingly under the law.

It is disturbing these "sleeper" citizens can be stirred to hateful murderous islam so easily and quickly without much warning.

Sounder

Posted by: sounder at September 5, 2006 11:14 AM

Why would anyone convert to Islam in the first place. New converts have not studied the Quran to any extent, they dont have it memorised, they cant get the real meanings because they cant read it in Arabic. Yet, they not only convert to a religion they know little or nothing about, but they are ready in seconds to kill for it.
The answer is simple...contact with the demon Allah creates psychotic episodes in submitters. It's not Islamophobia, it's Allahphrenia. Allahu Akbar is the battle cry of the demented Allahphreniac. The answer is to do away with Allah...discredit him untill no one wants to submit. 'God is God' may have some merit, but 'Allah is God', does not...

Posted by: duh_swami at September 5, 2006 11:16 AM

Bungie's defense of Rahman is ridiculous.

How many people did Adolf Hitler personally kill?
Charles Manson?
Pol Pot?
Joseph Stalin?

Rahman could have been a disembodied talking head in a jar and that wouldn't obviate his responsibility.

It's a sad commentary on this world that anyone would actually sign a paycheck over to this idiot.

Posted by: Eisenhund at September 5, 2006 11:23 AM

duh_swami, their brainwashing techniques must be incredible to say the least. We should find out how it is done and use it for our own protection!

Sounder

Posted by: sounder at September 5, 2006 11:23 AM

Inayat Bunglawala - Idiot Bullshitwala would be more appropriate.

Posted by: Fred at September 5, 2006 12:18 PM

Why would anyone convert to Islam in the first place. New converts have not studied the Quran to any extent, they dont have it memorised, they cant get the real meanings because they cant read it in Arabic....

Because duh_swami, as in every other religion out there...apart from biblical christianity...it appeals to mankinds desire to be righteous by their works....rather than by the completed work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Such religion would appeal to someone who hates themself and wishes to be something other than what they are. Someone who still wishes to retain control - rather than completely submitting to will of the Creater God of the Universe.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 5, 2006 12:34 PM

ALSO, when you eliminate God from a society...there will be a vacuum. I sat in a Church of England meeting and heard a Vicar AND a so-called missionarry from Lebanon say that Allah was the same as the God of the Bible. The 'missionary' then prayed in arabic using the name ALLAH.

So, if the church of England can be THAT screwed up...then don't be at all surprised if it not only loses all members..apart from those who enjoy the pc social club it now represents...whilst disenchanted Brits look for answers elsewhere.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 5, 2006 12:39 PM

Hmmmm....how strong a Christian could he be if he converted to the dark side? I'll bet the muslims baited him by using sex,(rape, polygamy, temp marriages, virgins in paradise, children, homosexuality, farm animals) maybe by the fact that as a muslim, the world OWES him everything, and maybe it just fit a criminal lifestyle he was destined for. They might have convinced him there is more to life than being a video store clerk. His mother is in denial.

Posted by: freewoman at September 5, 2006 12:55 PM

Concerned Citizen and Columba: This is how I as an Italo-American, Roman Catholic see it: Beatrice is certainly no Saint Monica. But then most modern day Christian women are not.

No, Beatrice, your son Gilbert, was not a "strong Christian" any more than Steve Centanni of Fox News was. St. Cecilia, St. Lawrence, St. Lucy, and my patron saint a young Roman girl, St. Agnes were STRONG Christians. They matched their spirit with their blood and gave their all. They are worthy of the name "martyr" not some dufus who walks into a crowded subway train with a bomb strapped to him. He is a murderer but not a martyr. It is precisely that early Christian SPIRIT and that FORTITUDE we must recapture in the West of any remnant of Judeo-Christian culture is to survive. I believe the sailors at Lepanto exhibited it and again King Jan Sobeski at Vienna's walls.

The boll weavil eating away at our will to defend ourselves and our Faith with our lives is the 20th century ecumania and syncretism. I am not suggesting we return to burning heretics at the stake. However, with the wishy-washy, limp-wristed ministers/priests spewing their non-judgmental, pacifistic, syncretist pablum and remaking a god in their own mincing, spineless image, it is no wonder that boys seeking a strong God/Man would reject the Jesus these panty-waist modernist ministers have been pushing. Osama and his ilk are betting that their boy Mo and his god, Allah, are going to exude the appeal of the "strong horse" in this clash of cultures.

Posted by: bevc at September 5, 2006 12:57 PM

Re: More converts to Islam held in new wave of UK arrests

An Indian friend (non-muslim) has the opinion that a lot of the converts to Islam are people with low self-esteem, that the belief-system gives them a supremacist view of themselves. I guess, in that sense, it is a mask for insecurities.

Curiously, when we were talking about the foiled plot (of some weeks ago)to bomb the Taj Mahal, he said that he didn't care if Jihadists did blow it up. I asked him why, and he advised me that it was built by a bloodthirsty Muslim who cut off the arms of the workers when it was finished. He seems to view it as a symbol of oppression of non-muslim people. I reminded him that it's an important tourist attraction. He said, "I don't care. Let them blow it up." I don't think he's a likely convert to Islam. He has high self-esteem.

Posted by: Frank at September 5, 2006 1:19 PM

In algeria, the very few marriages between muslim males and christian women end up with their own children (raised as muslims) verbally abusing their mothers and calling them dirty, filthy etc.

All with the instruction of the imams and local neighbourhood.

Why this devout christian woman didn't do anything to prevent his son to marry a muslim woman? why she didn't do something real like dishonorim at any chance.

That's what is useful to do when your son or a member of the family wants to join the cult

Posted by: FedUp at September 5, 2006 2:13 PM

Many people in England are sick of arguing with these people and they are bored of listening to reasons why they are upset or disenfranchised, or just pissed off because it is Tuesday.

The government as a responsibility to consider the wishes of the indigenous population in policy making, and when the people decide that the government no longer represents them in matters as important as the security of the nation, then the population will take steps to defend themselves. The onus is on the government to recognise the grievances of the public, and if they do not they are responsible for the result. At the end of the day Tony Blair is a public servant even if he has forgot it in his quest for a legacy.

The Youtube videos of British men threatening Muslims in much the same way as Muslims threaten us, was attributed to far right extremists by the Times without them even speaking to the men in the video. Is it not possible that these men were publicising their anger at Britain being used by the left as the ultimate chemistry set for experimentation of a new world order.

Nobody gave them permission to play with the fabric of our society and if the result is hatred and violence in response to the hatred and violence they have invited into the country, then they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I am not racist. My anger is directed at those who wish us harm. My distaste for Al-BBCeera stems from the fact that they wish to distort the news to fit the left wing agenda they learnt in university. I don’t mind living in a country that as many different cultures, as long as nobody tries to bully me into living their way. I can go to America to live American culture. If I want Islamic culture then I can move to Lahore as Misbah did.

If Pakistan offered a wage and benefits far higher than Britain could. I wonder how the Pakistani population would react to millions of British immigrants taking jobs and wandering around after a few beers in shorts.

Posted by: Mert at September 5, 2006 2:46 PM

Curiously, when we were talking about the foiled plot (of some weeks ago)to bomb the Taj Mahal, he said that he didn't care if Jihadists did blow it up. I asked him why, and he advised me that it was built by a bloodthirsty Muslim who cut off the arms of the workers when it was finished. He seems to view it as a symbol of oppression of non-muslim people. I reminded him that it's an important tourist attraction. He said, "I don't care. Let them blow it up." I don't think he's a likely convert to Islam. He has high self-esteem. Posted by Frank

I share your friend's views on the Taj. The historical baggage aside, the existance of this monument has been a major inconvinience to all people living in the vicinity - from flight paths having to be altered, to that entire place getting a white elephant treatment. I view the Taj, and other historical 'monuments' that the Mohammedans built - like the Red Forts, tombs of various sultans/badshahs, etc as Jahiliya. Once they are eradicated, it will free up a lot of real estate, particularly in Delhi, which is currently extremely congested to the point that any new development of things like Tech parks has to be done in suburban areas well outside the capital.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2006 3:00 PM

"It is pretty ironic that so many of these men were of West Indian origin."

Not at all. The West Indies were conquered and colonized by evil Westerners, and anti-Western antipathy has been simmering throughout Latin America (varying in degree from place to place) for centuries). An anti-Western antipathy is part of the non-white cultures of the Third World in general. Islam can easily exploit this because most Muslims are non-white and non-Western.

"At that time [1960s], the West Indians were a decent law abiding group..."

I wouldn't make any blanket statements like that.

Posted by: remote_control at September 5, 2006 3:11 PM

"His mother Beatrice, 53, said former video store worker Gilbert, one of five brothers, converted from Christianity to Islam two years ago before marrying his Muslim wife, Shawnette."

Gilbert and the Shawnettes -- the latest sensation from MoTown!

Posted by: remote_control at September 5, 2006 3:14 PM

Ipride-

He called it "a monstrosity": you and Hament have the same thoughts on the matter. BTW, thanks for that advise on the google spell check. It's a great help.

Posted by: Frank at September 5, 2006 3:53 PM

the muslims baited him by using sex,(rape, polygamy, temp marriages, virgins in paradise, children, homosexuality, virgin farm animals)
++++++++++++++++++++++

Yep, the virgin farm animals gets 'em to convert everytime.

Posted by: Texican at September 5, 2006 3:58 PM

By the way there is good evidence that the Taj Mahal was not built by the Muslims, but was in fact converted out of an existing Hindu temple by enforced Hindu labour. Which would seem about par for the course.

Posted by: Holger Dansker at September 5, 2006 3:59 PM

Oh joy, now a rabid fire-breathing Catholic is entering the fray along with his rabid fire-breathing legalistic Protestant brethren. We can rest easy now.

bevc wrote: "The boll weavil eating away at our will to defend ourselves and our Faith with our lives is the 20th century ecumania and syncretism. I am not suggesting we return to burning heretics at the stake."

Well bevc, that's real big of you. Maybe, judging from the abusive vitriol of your message, you'll be content to just line them up against the wall and shoot them, a nice, clean, painless death. Or perhaps behead them; that's a fairly quick, if grisly, death, if it's performed skillfully.

I am a Christian, but I for one am not interested in joining forces against rabid fire-breathing religious fanatics with other rabid fire-breathing religious fanatics. They're all motivated by the same reptilian impulses.

I believe in a strong secular state that allows for freedom of religion but does not impose any one religion on anyone. Japan, a highly successful secular (AND free and democratic)state, is a good example. I also believe in secular public education. Political Islamists have grossly violated these principles all over the Western world, because they don't or refuse to understand where religious freedom ends and where the state's obligation not to impose religion begins.

The legalistic Christians of the Religious Right in the U.S., who have since the wake-up call of 9/11 latched gleefully onto the fight against radical Islam even though in the past they have openly supported repressive Islamic regimes (before they clued into the fact that these people really DON'T LIKE Christians, even those who share their hatred of secular society, women's rights, gays, sexual freedom and liberalism), don't seem to understand this distinction very well either, or else are wilfilly blind to it.

Now I'll stand back and wait for the usual barrage of vicious personal attacks...

Posted by: angloirishslav at September 5, 2006 4:42 PM

Infidel Pride wrote: "I view the Taj, and other historical 'monuments' that the Mohammedans built - like the Red Forts, tombs of various sultans/badshahs, etc as Jahiliya. Once they are eradicated, it will free up a lot of real estate, particularly in Delhi, which is currently extremely congested to the point that any new development of things like Tech parks has to be done in suburban areas well outside the capital."

Monuments like the Taj Mahal are not the cause of Islamic jihad. Blowing them up to make room for more important things like "Tech parks" may please barbarians like you, but it won't make the world any safer for democracy.

Posted by: angloirishslav at September 5, 2006 4:50 PM

dennisw

Saw some of your posts on CiF. Also Emperor's clothes, null and scuzzlebutt. What a canning Bunglawalla is getting. I'm surprised after the last canning, Guardian has gave him another shot.

Have you ever seen this site

http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/

It is Jihad Watch UK.

Posted by: DP111 at September 5, 2006 4:52 PM

Yesterday, his shocked family protested

Its the same routine, "Shocked, shocked I tell you. He is such a nice boy - kind, polite, wouldnt hurt anybody, and pious. He goes to the mosque and contributes to charity".

This is getting tiresome. Have heard the same refrain from the families since 9/11. I remember Ata's father with the same excuses. Isnt it time the United Mosque committee, handed out a new set of "shocked" phrases that families of terrorists can use?

Posted by: DP111 at September 5, 2006 4:55 PM

Looks like Britain is paying the price now for its nieve multicultural madness.

I visited UK last year and when i went 2 london, i can tell you i really noticed a change in ethnic demographics. Every second or third woman on the streed was dressed as darth vader. Fucking disgusting

Posted by: Philip_Hollywood at September 5, 2006 5:07 PM

DP111
I see you at LGF and here.
I registered last week to try to get in on the Bungle fun but his blog was closed to new posts. So I gave a few comments this week. I intend to come back every week until Bungle is so embarrassed he will close down the blog.

My hat's off to the Guardian UK newspaper for providing blog and discussion space

That Bunglawalla is a perfect example of the slow Jihad, Jihad by increments that Hugh talks about. It's disgusting he lives in a free civilized nation. Yeah, I realize he was probably born in the UK. If anyone was rightly pegged as wogs it's the Pakistani Muslims. Hindus never deserved it.

Posted by: dennisw at September 5, 2006 5:08 PM

angloirishslav

Only a total moron compares the religious fundamentalists of the USA to world wide Muslim fundamentalism. Being Jewish I'm a neutral party. I don't see our Christian fundies here (USA) terrorizing anyone or chopping off heads. You're an educated fool. Happy now?

Plus they support Israel against the Jihad
Which side are you on?

Posted by: dennisw at September 5, 2006 5:14 PM

Muslim immigrants’ higher birthrates will replace traditionally Christian Europe with an Islamic majority within this century. Abu Abdullah has 4 children. The birthrate for the indigenous UK population is below replacement. These arrests come as Tony Blair's New Labour announce free contraception for under-age school children. Don't expect Muslims to head the abortion/contraception message New Labour preaches.

Posted by: SleepyCat at September 5, 2006 5:20 PM

I wonder how the press will reconcile the converts jumping on the jihad train? Since they can read the translated koran in English, it cannot be claimed that they were manipulated by unscrupulous imams and mullahs. These people made a conscious decision to take up arms in the name of their new religion. The UK must awaken soon and start deporting muslims en mass if they are to stay a free nation.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 5, 2006 5:45 PM

All of them are the sons of families who came to Britain from Jamaica and the West Indies.

perhaps the Brits should send these newly converted muslims to Dafur, they could blend in well with other muslims.. oh you mean they would be killed by the arab muslims... oh my these newly converted retards dont know that? well send them off now!

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at September 5, 2006 6:20 PM

Monuments like the Taj Mahal are not the cause of Islamic jihad. Blowing them up to make room for more important things like "Tech parks" may please barbarians like you, but it won't make the world any safer for democracy. Posted by: angloirishslav

Given that Hindus aren't going to blow it up (or else, they'd have done it by now), I'm perfectly happy to sit back and let Muslims do it. All I'd hope for is security at that place, and others, to be completely withdrawn (so that no security officials get maimed or killed), and just sit back and watch.

P.S. In case you haven't figured, the cause of Islamic Jihad (what other Jihad is there?) is ISLAM!

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2006 6:49 PM

Vitriol? Praising the courage of Jan Sobeski at Vienna while decrying the dearth of such leaders in today's mainstream churches is hardly vitriolic. In my post, I was speaking about the CULTURE of the West (the totality of socially transmitted beliefs, behaviors, institutions and all other products of Western thought and works)and not a particular governmental form. Afterall the West has encompassed democracies, federal republics, kingdoms, parliamentary monarchies, etc. But saving the culture necessarily entails pondering First Principles as the very word "culture" derives from the cultus - the manner and object of worship. Christianity and Judeo-Christian principles are at the heart of Western Culture even when the EU trembles to mention it in their constitution or judges try to excise it from daily American life.

If we believe that Truth cannot be known or even sought, if we fear making distinctions between good and evil, right and wrong, we are no longer a culture but a society in freefall and decay.

The comment about the propensity of men to admire and seek out a strong horse is Osama's not mine. But he is correct.

Posted by: bevc at September 5, 2006 6:54 PM

"Since they can read the translated koran in English, it cannot be claimed that they were manipulated by unscrupulous imams and mullahs."
-Bohemond_1069

Did they read the koran in English? Well there ya go! We can't blame islam because these guys aren't real mohammedans. After all, the handbook can't be accurately translated into any other language, so if one hasn't read it in Arabic, one is not a real mo.

Phew! That's a load off my mind. Think I'll go back to sleep.

Posted by: Eisenhund at September 5, 2006 6:57 PM

Every second or third woman on the streed was dressed as darth vader. - above

Did any of them call themselves Abu Luke?

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 5, 2006 7:25 PM

Bevc, I agree with you. I sincerely pray that (a) I'll have the fortitude of the martyrs if I'm ever called on to give my life for my faith, and (b) I'll never have to face that decision. I also agree that a strong religious faith isn't necessarily a dangerous one to nonbelievers; it all depends on what that faith teaches. As you said, strongly believing Christians and Jews don't routinely threaten nonbelievers with death. For that matter, even angloirishslav, who's so critical of the strongly held beliefs of others, seems pretty adamant about his/her own beliefs -- and yet he/she hasn't offered to kill us for not agreeing. (I hope!)

I hope you didn't misunderstand me as endorsing syncretism or relativism. It just disturbed me to hear someone reviled for what seemed ignorance rather than moral turpitude. She may very well have been subjected to the syncretistic eyewash for years -- even, as I said earlier, from the pulpit of her own church. Is she wrong? Yes. Is she culpable for the error? Only God knows. (I invoke Thomas Aquinas for this idea. Can't get any Catholicker than that, right? :-) )

By the way, I'm a convert from atheism to Catholicism. I took a lot of verbal flak from the atheist and Jewish sides of my family, but never any threats of bodily harm.

Posted by: Columba at September 5, 2006 7:46 PM

Bevc and Columba,

I agree with you both on your points regarding the paucity of and great need for men and women of genuine "strong faith" in these times.

I'm sorry to "revile" the woman, but she didn't exactly follow the prescription for dealing with apostates or "false believers" (same God, Jesus is our prophet, too, etc.), did she? What if she had? What was her responsibility to know, merely depending on the topic coming up at church?

Forget that she claims to be a believer. Shouldn't your random generic mother (especially if she has seen a newspaper or television or internet news in the last five years) followed up to see what he was into when he wasn't grubbing off her table? "I accept (not accepted) his faith". Can you imagine being haunted by those words and not having bothered to see if the pabulum she was getting in her bottle was true? Her son was following a pedophile murderer!!!

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at September 5, 2006 8:20 PM

Judging by the article, he was probably about 21 when he got married. He may have just been a Christian in name only and decided to convert to Islam to marry a beautiful woman.

Posted by: non-redneck at September 5, 2006 9:17 PM

Black populations have been targetted for Da'wa in many Western countries. Islam is presented as a vehicle of protest and as a vehicle of social justice. It is, of course, neither, but rather a belief-system that encourages slavish submission to "Allah" and "Allah knows best," but also legitimates slavery, the institution of slavery.

Why, then, has the case not been made, have black ministers not been aided to make, the case against Islam? Why have they not been given support by governments or foundations, to publicize the history of Arab slavers, who took far more black Africans and kidnapped and then, in the case of the young black males, castrated them on site, and only then took them by slave coffle or dhow to the slave markets of Islam (see "The Hideous Trade"). Since Arab societies -- are the most openly racist on earth, as students (one I know, who had learned about wonderful Islam from Bruce Lawrence of Duke, was surprised, and confused, and horrified to discover in Cairo -- or was it Damascus? -- the remarks about blacks made openly to him -- it is only a matter of assembling the evidence, and presenting it, and re-presenting it.

Then there is the matter of Arab supremacism as reflected in the behavior of Arabs toward black Africans today. After the Six-Day War the Arabs simply bribed a few African leaders to cut ties with Israel, and in cutting those ties, the extensive and very successful agricultural aid programs of the Israelis in black Africa were also cut. In Mauritania and Sudan, and possibly Mali, blacks are still enslaved. As for the Sudan, 1.8 million non-Muslim blacks in the southern Sudan have been killed over the past two decades by actions of the Arab Muslim government, and now the same kind of mass-murder has been underway, for the past two years, in Darfur, this time the victims being not non-Muslim blacks but black African Muslims, naturally regarded as inferior by the Arab Muslims.

And would not the ban on music in Islam -- a ban sometimes, very narrowly, ignored, but wherever Islam arrives with a vengeance, as with the Taliban or Khomeini or in Saudi Arabia, the role of music diminishes or even disappeares.

There is more. But that's a start.

Governments in the Western world should focus on the campaigns of Da'wa. Merely by appealing -- through clever propaganda that has nothing to do with the truth of Islam, which is discovered, if at all, only when one is already in too deep to get out, out of fear, or out of brainwashing, or out of self-brainwashing -- to the innocence and the resentments of many (as for that "social justice" business -- just look at the distribution of wealth all over the Muslim world, from the Al-Saud family in Saudi Arabia, the Al-Thani in Qatar, the Al-Sabah in Kuwait, the Al-Maktoum in the U.A.E., or Khaddafy's rule in Libya, or Mubarak's family-and-friends plan in Egypt, or the Assad dynasty in Syria, or the Hashemites in Jordan and Sherifians in Morocco, or the generals who rule and steal in Algeria, or the zamindars and generals in Pakistan, and that should shut everyone up about "social justice" in Islam, and so too should the marked contrast between the rich (from oil, of course) Muslim states and the poor ones, with the latter getting what aid they do get from Infidels, not from rich fellow members of the Umma al-Islamiyya.

Governments in the Western world have to recognize Da'wa, which signs people not to save their souls, but to swell the ranks, to sign up recruits for the Army of Islma, is more of a threat to the present and future wellbeing of Infidels and their legal and political institutions, and social arrangements, and freedom of thougt and skeptical inquiry and artistic expression, than are these assorted acts of terror on which the Buth Administration insists on putting all of its attention, so stupidly, so dangerously, so ultimately ineffectively.

Campaigns to counter Da'wa, to immunize Infidels against its sinister and meretricious siren-song, can easily be developed. I could do it myself, with the right support. Campaigns to not only counter Da'wa, but to force Muslims in the West to confront the actual contents of Qur'an and Hadith, and the actual figure of Muhammad, by constant and public demonstration by Infidels that they know what those texts contain, know what Muhammad said and did, and are fully aware of what that necesssarily means for Infidels. That will force at least some Muslims to stop the nonsense, lies, or for some, merely an evasion of the reality of this belief-system that they pretend can somehow be harmonized with Western freedoms, modes of thought, and institutions. Islam contradicts those freedoms, and works to deny Infidels their civilizational achievements.

This should be in everyone's mind, should be understood, should be easily retrieved, should be made the subject of endless commentaries and conversations.

The nonsense and lies should no longer be tolerated. Not anywhere in the Western or Greater Infidel World.

Posted by: Hugh at September 5, 2006 11:03 PM

My post didn't last long on the Bunglawalla-blog, a few hours at the most, before it was 'discontinued'...

Seems there is not much 'tolerance for diversity' and opposing views at the Guardian!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 6, 2006 12:05 AM

I don't understand the reason that black people are interested in Islam.

Will someone please show them the historical facts?

The largest slave trade of black Africans were organized by Muslims, not white European Christians.

Mohammad did not care much for blacks.

Mohammad owned black slaves.

Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads". (Sahih Al Bukhary vol. 1, no. 662 and vol. 9, no. 256).

In another Hadith, Mohammed is quoted as saying that Blacks are, "pug-nosed slaves". (Sahih Moslem vol. 9 pages 46 and 47).

Read about slavery in Islam.
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/BehindVeil/btv5.html#owner

Posted by: Johnathan at September 6, 2006 1:08 AM

angloiriwhslav, what's a "legalistic" Christian?

Posted by: Susanp at September 6, 2006 1:09 AM

Please believe me when I say that the vast majority of British people are heartily sick of the rabid murderers in our midsts. We would like nothing better than to have them all deported... but our pathetic 'government' is hamstrung by its own Human Rights Act. It seems the rights of terrorists take presidence over those of us normal people...

Posted by: StevenXBrown at September 5, 2006 08:19 AM

Steven, can't this Human Rights Act be repealed? Laws are repealed all the time, or amended. Is this connected to the illustrious EU membership?

I'm all for human rights, but when a country is forced to accept criminal, terrorist immigrants because they claim their human rights might be violated, doesn't that infringe on the human rights of the indigenous citizens by exposing them to derelicts, perverts, and violent sociopaths?

I don't know how accurate these reports are, but I recently read several lengthy articles about crime in the UK, which now exceeds the crime rate in the US. Both articles stated that crime is not punished in the UK, at least not "minor" crime, which includes burglary, assault, domestic violence, shoplifting, arson, and many other serious issues. This is putatively because the social engineers (left-wing morons) have decreed that prison does not rehabilitate or deal with the "root" causes of crime. Typical left-wing jibberish and BS. I really feel sorry for the law-abiding citizens of the UK, who are forbidden to defend themselves and are at the mercy of a system that refuses to punish criminals.

If your home is invaded, your valuables stolen, your possessions damaged or destroyed, your person threatened with a weapon-weilding criminal, you cannot retaliate or defend yourself and your property, the police are useless, and the criminal is guaranteed impunity for his actions. Wow, what deterrents to crime! Next they will offer college courses on How to be a Successful Jewel Thief or Carjacking 101. Unbelievable!

Are these preposterous claims true? If they are, do the British people support impunity for criminals? Are the majority of crimes by any chance committed by "Asian" immigrants? Thirty years ago, the crime rate in Great Britain was practically non-existent. Thirty years ago, there weren't millions of "Asian" immigrants, and multiculturalism was a deformed fetus growing in the twisted minds of the leftist social engineers, their utopian future. It sure doesn't sound like utopia to me, but I haven't been there lately.

We have our share of problems here, but as I'm sure you have heard, the prison population in the U.S. is the highest in the Western world, and we still execute murderers. Maybe someday we will become as civilized as the Europeans. I sure hope not.

Posted by: Susanp at September 6, 2006 1:55 AM

They read the koran in English? Well there ya go! We can't blame islam because these guys aren't real mohammedans. After all, the handbook can't be accurately translated into any other language, so if one hasn't read it in Arabic, one is not a real mo.

Posted by: aynrandgirl at September 6, 2006 2:02 AM

I know this is somewhat off subject, but check out the "modesty gowns" manufactured in England for hospitaltized female muslims.(I find it hard to capitalize England anymore.)(Michaelsavage.com) You can hardly make out the womans eyes, can only see her hands. I 'm guessing allah f'd up on his creation of women, to warrent her to have to look like she's trick or treating.

Posted by: mustang65 at September 6, 2006 11:26 AM

"And would not the ban on music in Islam..."

It's not merely a ban on music, it's the puritanism behind it that would, and should, dismay particularly young African-Americans. Take a look at the TV shows Dance 360 and Soul Train (yes, it's still going after all these years): On the latter show, as the latest rap, hip-hop, soul and R&B music plays over the loudspeakers, the cameras move in and among male and female dancers, mostly black or brown, with a few whites here and there, the women wearing provocative miniskirts, high-heels, midriff-baring blouses, and cleavage-plunging necklines gyrating their hips in intercourse-miming moves, and the men doing likewise. On the former show, as a crowd of young people, men and women, all races, watches, participants from among them will volunteer to come out into the dance circle -- the "dance 360" -- to show off their dance moves, with women often displaying the most outrageously sexual kinetics with their lithe and flexible bodies.

These two shows, and the broader subculture they reflect which has infectiously influenced not only blacks but youths of all races throughout not only the US but throughout the world by now, must obviously deeply offend and outrage Muslims. When Muslims in their anti-Western apologetics frequently mention the "moral degeneracy" of America and the West, they never mention blacks, but surely, they must be thinking of them -- but perhaps cleverly neglecting to mention them.

And then, one wonders what American Muslims do during Mardi Gras in New Orleans? Good God, they must go into their basements and hide until it's all over! And what about Muslims in Rio de Janeiro, during Carnaval? The American Latin culture in general, with its rhythmic sensuality pulsating out of the wonderful mix of "branco, preto, mulato", must be anathema to American Muslims, South, Central and North.

Posted by: remote_control at September 6, 2006 11:41 AM

Reality check.........when and only when there are no more muslims will this world civilization be able to continue. Muslim goals are to convert and destroy. It is an ideology of misfits created by a man who wanted more than his share of female flesh. Mohammed subjugated women first then put this domination of fellow humans beings into mass production. Deport all muslims, close and burn all mosques, kill all terrorists........
that is the answer! Muslims beware, the world is rising against you!

Posted by: Truthseeker at September 7, 2006 6:37 AM

HI EVERYONE.
THANKS FOR SPENDING YOUR TIME TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS..

GOOD TO SEE SO MANY PEOPLE AWARE OF WORLD REALITY...

TRUTHSEEKER AND ARCHIMEDED KEEP UP THE WORK..

ISLAM IS MORE A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY THAN A RELIGION.. IT HAS MORE POLITICS IN IT THEN RELIGION/SPIRITUALITY..

CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING

CHRISTIANS ARE BEING WIPED OUT IN LEBANON..

HINDUS ARE WIPED OUT IN BANGLADESH AND PAKISTAN..

CHRSTIANS ANS HINDUS ARE OPPRESSED IN MALAYSIA ( ANOTHER ISLAMIC STATE IF YOU DONT KNOW )

PRETTY SOON, THE SAME MIGHT HAPPEN TO FRANCE..

ALREADY BULGARIA, BALKANS ARE CLEANSED.. MORE MUSLIMS THAN CHRISTIANS I BELIEVE ( IM NOT SURE.. THOUGH).

LIBERAL MEDIA AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS.. KEEP UP YOUR WORK.. GO ON LIKE THIS .. AND BY 1950, YOU WILL BE WRITING SHARIA COMMENTARY IN YOUR NATIONS.. ( YOUR NATION MIGHT TURN ISLAMIC.. )

THATS WHAT THE LIBERAL MEDIA AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS ARE DOING TO THE WORLD.. THEY ARE HELPING THE ISLAMISTS IN ESTABLISHING ISLAM IN THE WORLD..

I WOULD RATHER LIVE IN ANTARTICA THAN LIVE ALONG WITH YOU FOLKS WHO HELP WAHABIS MAKE WESTERN NATIONS ISLAMIC STATES

Posted by: 4freeworld at September 7, 2006 12:42 PM