It remains to be seen what would Bush do or tell the American people on Sept. 11th about our 'front line ally' on terror has given a safe cave to the most wanted terrorists on this planet?

Posted by: OneEyedWink at September 5, 2006 6:56 PM

Remember the Bush Doctrine? That the US would make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them? Hopefully someone in Washington still remembers it.

Speaking for myself, I much prefer the Limbaugh doctrine: Real peace is achieved when one side completely defeats the other, and dictates the terms of surrender.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2006 7:00 PM

I believe Bin Laden is in Iran....And Bush knows it.President Bush today...........Now, I know some of our country hear the terrorists’ words, and hope that they will not, or cannot, do what they say. History teaches that underestimating the words of evil and ambitious men is a terrible mistake. In the early 1900s, an exiled lawyer in Europe published a pamphlet called “What is to be Done?” — in which he laid out his plan to launch a communist revolution in Russia. The world did not heed Lenin’s words, and paid a terrible price. The Soviet Empire he established killed tens of millions, and brought the world to the brink of thermonuclear war. In the 1920s, a failed Austrian painter published a book in which he explained his intention to build an Aryan super-state in Germany and take revenge on Europe and eradicate the Jews. The world ignored Hitler’s words, and paid a terrible price. His Nazi regime killed millions in the gas chambers, and set the world aflame in war, before it was finally defeated at a terrible cost in lives.

Bin Laden and his terrorist allies have made their intentions as clear as Lenin and Hitler before them. The question is: Will we listen? Will we pay attention to what these evil men say?

Posted by: storagemanager at September 5, 2006 7:02 PM

There is nothing in this report that wasn't widely known a few years ago. OBM is safe cuz if the States apprehends him and the Pakis go off the deep end.

No doubt about how explosive the Pakis are; Hindu + Moslem = Explosive.

The quickest route to a nuked-up Islamic Republic is to nab Osama and watch Musharaf topple to Koran waving firebrands.

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

George and Condi have no interest in capturing Osama cuz they cannot let go of the fantastic dream George articulated so well on the evening 9/12.

And, for all their blustering about the lack of focus on fighting al-Qaeda, the Democrats would be even more hamstrung in this matter.

So where do we turn. Inward? Away from the ballot box? Towards Mecca? You can run, but you can't hide. The Moslems have even NZ, Ireland, and Finland covered. There is not where to hide. Eventually, we must stand and fight in place.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 5, 2006 7:16 PM

Alarmed Pig Farmer.......President Bush told the American public he understands today...I have been one of the most vocal hear on this...But today................Just as we must take the words of the Sunni extremists seriously, we must take the words of the Shia extremists seriously. Listen to the words of Hezbollah's leader, the terrorist Nasrallah, who has declared his hatred of America. He says, "Let the entire world hear me. Our hostility to the Great Satan [America] is absolute. Regardless of how the world has changed after 11 September, 'Death to America' will remain our reverberating and powerful slogan: Death to America."

Iran's leaders, who back Hezbollah, have also declared their absolute hostility to America. Last October, Iran's President declared in a speech that some people ask -- in his words -- "whether a world without the United States and Zionism can be achieved. I say that this goal is achievable." Less than three months ago, Iran's President declared to America and other Western powers: "open your eyes and see the fate of pharaoh. If you do not abandon the path of falsehood, your doomed destiny will be annihilation." Less than two months ago, he warned: "The anger of Muslims may reach an explosion point soon. If such a day comes, America and the West should know that the waves of the blast will not remain within the boundaries of our region." He also delivered this message to the American people: "If you would like to have good relations with the Iranian nation in the future, bow down before the greatness of the Iranian nation and surrender. If you don't accept to do this, the Iranian nation will force you to surrender and bow down."

America will not bow down to tyrants. (Applause.) President Bush today

The Danger is real....and now the President has joined his voice to those of ours

Posted by: storagemanager at September 5, 2006 7:32 PM

I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED IF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS , AS THEY LIKE TO BE CALLED,READ THESE SITES AND ACTUALLY GRASP OUR WAY OF LIFE??? Either way, they seem to be comfortable in their decisions . As a wise person once said, walk softly but carry a BIG STICK!!!

Posted by: OLD SARGE at September 5, 2006 7:36 PM

Since this is my first comment on this site i have no problem waiting for some clearing house to figure if i am legit ,i too have patience and dicipline , something i learned as an AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: OLD SARGE at September 5, 2006 7:42 PM

Although Papa Smirk seems to be getting better advice describing the enemy lately, I still see little to justify the BS WMD diversion of our forces from the initial mission of capturing Bin Laden "dead or alive" and totally attriting the Taliban, or other cells in whatever country they might be. All I see is endless moving of the goal posts, from WMD to promoting a Terrorist University in order to fight them "over there", or from wanted "dead or alive" to not even mentioning Bin Laden in the recent paper put out on Terrorism.

If this article is in fact true, I can't think of a more despicable act by a foreign government that is supposedly an "ally."

Posted by: amana39 at September 5, 2006 7:49 PM

Call this what it is, the surrender of pakistan. As a nuclear power their surrender to islamic fascists speaks for itself. Our troops are now surrounded and our options are simple. We also surrender or we prepare to annihilate them.

Posted by: Ronin at September 5, 2006 7:52 PM

"The surprising announcement comes..."

What is surprising?

Pakistan is a Muslim country. Its military and intelligence service (ISI) are run by jihadists. Its border towns and cities are dens of vermin mixed with a blend of Imam-ic charm and down-home roasting of infidel slime. So, naturally, these people love UBL. After all Usama is the most popular boy's name in Pakistan. And why is it so surprising that the government would grant him immunity? Because Pakistan is a US ally? HA! What a joke... I give Musharraf fewer than 2 years to live. He'll suffer the same fate as Shah Massood. Boom.

Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at September 5, 2006 8:00 PM

... open your eyes and see the fate of pharaoh.

Damn these Moslems are good. First they tell us that Abraham was a deeply offended angry Moslem screwed by manipulative Jews; but now the Pharaoh too?

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

Must it be so hard to nut the Big Lie theory? The logic or math behind this equiation can't be such a terrible intellectual challenge, must it? I mean, I know we're dealing with elites who attended finishing schools, but c'mon!

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

Harvard. Yale. Stanford. Duke. Brown. Columbia. Georgetown. Notre Dame. Northwestern. Cornell. Penn. Southern Cal. Berkeley. You know the list.

I will, however, very reluctantly give a heavily qualified pass to Dartmouth. I think.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 5, 2006 8:04 PM

Posted by: amana39.......With all due respect your post shows you really dont understand Islam...or what the President is doing....He all almost spelled it out today....ears people.

Posted by: storagemanager at September 5, 2006 8:06 PM

Bush Administration might be naive enough to feel surprise and outraged. THose who have dealt with Pakistani establishment knew it from the begining. It is not that Pakistani Army has sufferred 'humiliating defeats', it the well known fact that there will be a revolt in the army if Pakistani Government orders army to go behind taliban with full capacity. Expecting a country formed on the sole basis of Islam to fight taliban is a wishful thinking.
And as Pakistani and US governments have repeated asked India, one would like to ask US government, 'what is the proof that Bin Laden is there is Pakistan?'

Posted by: pagan at September 5, 2006 8:08 PM

It just goes to show the contempt Pakistan has for all the people murdered on sep11 and they have shown they are a terrorist nation.

Fighting the Taliban in Afganistan is now an act of futility it will be like U.S ground forces not being able to go into North Vietnam.

Once Musharraf is killed or overthrown and the facists take over they are going to have Nukes ready to fly.

I saw a documentry where the former head of Pakistani Intelligence stated that Bin Laden is a freedom fighter.

Posted by: stevenz at September 5, 2006 8:08 PM

I would hope this Pakistani statement would be enough to finally move Pakistan from the "With Us" column to the "Against Us" column. We've pussyfooted around all these years--put up with Dr. Khan and company's handing out nuclear know how and materials to every thug in the world, we've put up with the Pakistani Intelligence Service's support of terrorists and half-hearted cooperation in and sometimes downright obstruction of the GWOT; we've been afraid to call Pakistan on all sorts of things becasue we were afraid that, if we did, they'd jump into the "Against Us" column. Well, it seems to me that, with this statement, they've just sauntered over into the "Against Us" column all by themselves .

Posted by: GaryK at September 5, 2006 8:10 PM

Has't Paki army and intelligence been in more or less open collusion with al-Qaeda from the outset?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 5, 2006 8:15 PM

The timing is a hint. The pakis are scared. islam goes with the winner; it is possible they think someone is actually going to hurt us (5 year anniversary coming up). We don’t have to worry about America being destroyed in a surprise attack we are too big and powerful for that. Our subs can destroy the world and would if we were somehow crippled as a nation. We could be severally damaged but we would launch immediately and islam would be no more. A big smoking crater is a small price to pay to end islam permanently.

Confucius say “not a good plan to screw with second term president".

Posted by: Ronin at September 5, 2006 8:24 PM

Here is an outrageous solution:

(1) The U.S. should pay Pakistan however much they want to give Waziristan its national independence. The place does nothing to contribute to the Pakistani economy and is just an endless hole for government aid. They'd probably be glad to get rid of it.
(2) The U.S. should then declare war on Waziristan for harboring the Taliban and al Qaeda. Bush Doctrine, remember?
(3) The U.S. should blast and burn that Godforsaken place back into the Stone Age.
(4) The U.S. should offer the rebuilding contract to Haliburton.
(5) The U.S. should give it to the Pope as a Christmas present.

Posted by: Kreuzueber Halbmond at September 5, 2006 8:24 PM

Unlike most I take the time to listen to sources, with whom I am not especially in agreement or comfortable, because one learns many things that one otherwise would not learn if one tuned and turned out sources with whom one did not agree.

(One learns nothing from sitting in the pew or singing to the choir).

An interview today with Robert Fisk

ROBERT FISK: Yeah. Well, he -- I mean, I didn't question him about it, because it seemed to me that he had basically dealt with this on Saturday night, because in his speech he talked repeatedly about Islamophobia and the way the media hypes constantly and changes the direction.

And I wasn’t really interested in it, because, you see, from my point of view, I think there is a Muslim nation, which is extremely dangerous to the West, which is packed with Taliban and al-Qaeda supporters and which does have a bomb, and it's called Pakistan. And that's the real crisis. And the more you get involved in discussing the crisis in Iran, the crisis in Iran, the crisis in Iran, you help to put building blocks and foundation stones underneath the Bush administration’s policies, because it's the story. And I think Pakistan is the story. I think Pakistan is a very dangerous place. I think Pervez Musharraf is playing this balancing game between the military and the ISI, the Intelligence Services, and the Taliban supporters and the large number of extreme Sunni groups in Balujistan and other parts of the northwest territories........

AMY GOODMAN: Would you call Musharraf a military dictator?

ROBERT FISK: Oh, he is a military dictator. I always call him the president-general in my articles, which is what he is. If you talk to him, he actually admits that, quite frankly. I mean, given the status, the state in which Pakistani democracy existed and the amount of corruption in it, you can see how he can claim to power quite well.

But the fact is, he knows that the Pakistani ISI, the Inter-Services Intelligence, is giving intelligence and money to the Taliban. I mean, the Taliban, around Kandahar Province now, are rich with cash. They've got a lot of money. Now, where’s it coming from? It’s probably coming, a little bit of it, from Iran, which originally used to talk about the “Black Taliban” and didn't like them, but now it’s quite happy to keep them where they are to keep the Americans busy. And a lot of it must be coming probably from Saudi Arabia via the ISI in Pakistan. But, of course, this is a subject which is not going to be discussed upfront between the Americans and Musharraf, because he’s our friend in the war on terror. That’s part of the scenery, and you mustn’t sort of strip any wallpaper off, because you might not know -- you don't know what you’re going to find behind it, do you? Source

I also learned from Fisk (much of that interview was discussing Ayatollah Khatami's visit to the U.S. and Lebanon, that Ayatollah Khatami will be meeting with (gasp) the Pope

Read it for yourself

ROBERT FISK: I don't think it's got anything to do with that. I think he has a tremendous standing as a scholar throughout the Islamic world, which is why he got a visa. If he had too close a relationship or even too hostile a relationship with Ahmadinejad, I don't think he would have got his visa to the United States. I mean, the mere fact that this big meeting here was effectively a meeting of Sunni Muslims -- there was not a lot of Shiites around that I have seen. It's pro-Saudi in its essence. The mere fact that it regarded him as such an honored figure to come, from the Shiite world and as a leading Shiite cleric, speaks for itself.

In fact, he's going from here to Geneva, where he's founded an institute, I think for civic responsibility or civic society. And he's then going to meet the Pope in Rome in October. He’s going to meet the Archbishop of Canterbury. He’s receiving an honorary degree from a university in Scotland in the United Kingdom. So, this is a man who has considerable status. But whether it's the status of a Nelson Mandela or the status of a Kofi Annan, which I would rather not have at the moment, I’m not sure.

Fisk said that Nasrallah lied when he said that if he thought even 1% that Israel would retaliate that he wouldn't have kidnapped the Israeli soldiers

ROBERT FISK: Well, I woke up on the morning of July the 12th, which was my birthday, Amy. It was my 60th birthday. And I received -- I hadn't exactly been partying, but I certainly got up late that morning. I got a phone call from a friend in Paris, who said, “Well, you've certainly got a birthday present today.” And I said, “What do you mean?” A classic case of the journalist who didn’t know what was going on just south of his own apartment. Of course, my friend said, “Well, you know, two Israelis have been kidnapped, captured, and three others killed.” And I thought, “Damn! You know, that's going to be a war,” because I knew that Ehud Olmert was going to do the usual Israeli policy of savage attacks against Lebanon as a result.

AMY GOODMAN: Hezbollah says they didn't know that.

ROBERT FISK: Well, Hezbollah, I think, is telling us a whopper. Nasrallah said, “Even if we had known one percent, we wouldn't have captured their soldiers.” Nonsense. I think the Hezbollah knew exactly what the Israelis were going to do, and they needed to flex their muscles and show their bravery, which it was, although, of course, it was a reckless kind, when you also bring upon death to more than 1,000 people, almost all of them civilians.

They had clearly, with massive bunkers, underground storage depots, planned that war. They hit a warship. They hit an Israeli warship and almost sank it. They hit it on midships, killed four sailors and set it on fire for 15 hours. That wasn't because some guy got up in the morning and ate his morning minutiae with cheese and said, “Oh, let's hit a warship today.” No, that had been planned weeks, months before. You can't just set that up, like that. And, of course, now, according to Seymour Hersh, we are led to believe and it’s possible that the Israelis planned their war for months before. It's possible, as Nasrallah said, that the Israelis were planning a September offensive, which would have led to even more civilian casualties. Well, maybe, but he didn't tell us that beforehand, didn't give us a warning of it, did he -- if he knew it.

Fisk also said that Hizballahs rockets on Israel were a war crime.

Interesting tidbit here

AMY GOODMAN: The Israeli Foreign Minister Livni Tzipi says that they will not negotiate with Syria until it stops supporting Hezbollah and Palestinian extremists.

ROBERT FISK: You know, it's funny, the self-delusion of everybody -- the Americans, the Israelis, and the Lebanese and the Hezbollah -- is quite extraordinary. The other day, it is a fact that the Lebanese army captured some missiles from the Hezbollah, right? And everyone assumes, “Oh, they stopped them bringing them in from Syria. They obviously blocked the roads, right? They were re-supplying [inaudible].” And the Israelis have no idea what’s going on in Lebanon, because their intelligence is rubbish, total rubbish. Forget Mossad and Shin Bet. This is legend and song.

How I know this is a fact, the Lebanese army got the missiles, because the Hezbollah were trying to ship them back across the border into Syria and out of southern Lebanon to protect the missiles, in case they were found. And the Lebanese army picked them up, not being brought in to re-supply, but being taken out, because the Hezbollah wanted to protect their weapons. That's the real story of Lebanon. It's always the mirror image. It’s always the opposite of what you think.

Posted by: Nariz at September 5, 2006 8:31 PM

point is that even if Bin boy laden is killed, it wont make a difference..but main point this shows how much pakistan is not serious in fighting terrorist. US needs to get more ties with India, insulate pakistand, and further rerstrict any immigrations from there. would be a good start. let them fester in their filty country.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at September 5, 2006 8:35 PM

LOL, just read the comments. Storemanager, you live in a reality of your own creation. You are so funny. Why so believing and worshipful of Bush? He isn't a prophet, nor a god, nor a chosen disciple of god.. he is merely a man, and not a good man, an honest man, nor a decent man at that.. his idea of fun as a kids was sticking firecrackers in the anus of cats and blowing up frogs..he hasn't changed.

Leopards don't shed their spots.

Posted by: Nariz at September 5, 2006 8:40 PM

Well I hope OBL gets comfortable with his new Pakistani arrangement, so comfortable that a CIA predator finds him and puts a Hellfire down his throat. Could be a "smoke grenade" to flush him out...

Posted by: systems_eng at September 5, 2006 8:57 PM

Just a thought. Anyone seen Musharraf since this was announced, on TV or heard his voice on the radio? Is he still healthy? Maybe there is way more to this story.

Posted by: Ronin at September 5, 2006 9:00 PM

"The surprising announcement..."

Pakistan publicly admitting their relationship with UBL and the Taliban is in itself surprising, especially since they could have easily remained silent. They have been on the fence for a few years now, doing just enough to stay on the U.S. side of the terror war. The real question is why the need for a public proclamation and why now?

Posted by: s at September 5, 2006 9:08 PM

Nariz,
You might as well go back to smoking dope as to listen to that fool Fisk - smoke clouds within smoke clouds, he's sort of like a castrated George Galloway - a coven of fools.

Sooner or later a special ops team will off Laden and Zawahiri.

Sooner or later most of the Paks in Britain will have to wend their way back to the offal hole mother country.

(what I like about this site is that we might all have the same goals or ends, but we seek and suggest different routes to get there)

islam is a cult of hate lies and deception trying to invade us under a cover of "liberal religious tolerance"

Ibrahim Hooper: the bigger your butt, the more you have to cover - and your idiots are busting out all over - you cant hide their behaviour or talk it away. Look in a mirror.

Posted by: dgene at September 5, 2006 9:15 PM

Somehow, I doubt it's Bush.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2006 07:00 PM

Yet, Bush as the president/commander-in-chief is responsible. Besides, was it not Bush who called Pakistan, an ally in 'war po terror' (whatever that means) after Pakistan's involvement in 9/11, Daniel Pearl's murder and nuclear proliferation to Iran and Libya?

Even if it is not "him", Bush cannot avoid the responsibility, given the office he holds.

Posted by: Alert at September 5, 2006 9:25 PM

No emmigration from Pakistan to any countries except muslim countries. The pakistani's are problems everywhere they go. Cut off ALL travel to and from Pakistan. No vacations, no madrassa's, no immigration from there. Period.

Posted by: Borg at September 5, 2006 9:45 PM

Hopefully this will lead Bush to come to the shocking realization that no islamic country will help on the war on terror. And Pakistan is the leading exporter of jihad in the world. We all want Bush to understand that the problem is not select leaders from select countries. The problem is the islamic populations of all islamic countries. The only moderate leader of an islamic country, Musharref, the only one to denounce islam, is the only one who looks to be headed for an early retirement. And all because the people of his country do not support him. Because they are islamic.

While we are in "negotiations" with Iran to stop them from developing a single bomb, it could be that jihadists get many bombs simply by overthrowing Musharref.

I believe that the Iranian bomb program may be a red herring after all. Once Musharref is gone, the entire Pakistan arsenal will be in the hands of Bin Laden and Co. Then the war on terror will be redundant.

This will be a positive development, though. It will clarify things. It will put a state to previously state-less jihadists. It will separate us into our respective camps now that THEY will have their own aresenal and won't have to rely on mickey mouse train bombings that liberals can whitewash, or the media can downplay. It will allow the US to focus on one country, a country that does not produce oil, and to see that the people of that country, do IN FACT, support Bin Laden and the islamic cause.

I welcome the overthrow of Musharref, and Bin Laden getting his hands on those nukes. Then we can settle this thing the way it should have been settled on September 11, 2001. The war on terror will be over and the THE WAR will be on. Finally.

Posted by: August22 at September 5, 2006 9:49 PM

Solution: Any treaty will not be with legal US. Find out where he is. Bomb him like we did Zarqawai. If he's dead he'll be REAL peaceful.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 5, 2006 10:03 PM

If "reliable" sources like ABC, a jihadi general, Richard Clarke, and the Nixon Center claim that Pakistan is granting Al Qaeda autonomy, it must be true.

I think I'll wait and see what actually happens. I'm not going to take the word of such world class liars. Taking Bin Loser into custody if the army withdraws obviously wouldn't even be an option, so Major General Jihad Khan sounds like he's blowing smoke up our a$$es.

I'm interested in what Musharraf has to say about this alleged "peace agreement." If Pakistani troops withdraw from from North Waziristan, it will be on his authority.

A pull out would allow American forces to go in without jeopardizing the lives of Paki troops, who would only get in their way. The "humiliating defeats" alleged in the ABC article could not be inflicted on American forces.

Assuming the withdrawal story is true, the questions to ask are: Is Musharraf going to give Bush the official go-ahead to go in and hunt for Bin Loser? Will Bush do it on a wink and nod, while Musharraf "officially" protests? Will Bush go in against genuine protests by Musharraf?

Time will tell.

One thing is for sure: As long as Bin Loser lives, he faces capture by the US--no matter how ABC spins it.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 5, 2006 10:11 PM

Kreuzueber Halbmond wrote:

Here is an outrageous solution:

(1) The U.S. should pay Pakistan however much they want to give Waziristan its national independence. The place does nothing to contribute to the Pakistani economy and is just an endless hole for government aid. They'd probably be glad to get rid of it.
(2) The U.S. should then declare war on Waziristan for harboring the Taliban and al Qaeda. Bush Doctrine, remember?
(3) The U.S. should blast and burn that Godforsaken place back into the Stone Age.
(4) The U.S. should offer the rebuilding contract to Haliburton.
(5) The U.S. should give it to the Pope as a Christmas present.

Not so outrageous...

The UN, Arab League, Organization of Islamic States would agree to #1 - they would have one more country to aid them on their quest to islamify the planet...one more vote at the UN, one more country to hate Israel and America.

Before #2 and # 3, we could send a bloody pig's head in a package to them (an offer they can't refuse)...

Although on #3 - that place is already in the stone age...how 'bout the ash age...

# 4 Halliburton is spinning off the engineering construction business (KBR) in 2007 - what a way to start their business off with a bang...absolutely no pun intended...

Posted by: religion of(blown to)pieces at September 5, 2006 10:23 PM

From the White House’s 2006 archives…

“Five years ago, Pakistan was one of only three nations that recognized the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. That all changed after September the 11th. President Musharraf understood that he had to make a fundamental choice for his people. He could turn a blind eye and leave his people hostage to terrorists, or he could join the free world in fighting the terrorists. President Musharraf made the right choice, and the United States of America is grateful for his leadership. ... Pakistan now has the opportunity to write a new chapter in its history, and the United States wants to build a broad and lasting strategic partnership with the people of Pakistan."
President George W. Bush, February 22, 2006

....

Pakistan is one of the largest recipients of U.S. security assistance.
 The United States has pledged $1.5 billion of Foreign Military Financing to Pakistan from 2005-2009.
 The United States supports Pakistan's defense needs through sales of advanced systems.
 Last year, the President also announced the United States' intention to move forward with the possible sale of F-16 fighter aircraft to Pakistan.

If the story is accurate, President Bush will be enlightened, angry, and feel far more free to operate in northern Pakistan.

If the story is spin, we've been granted greater autonomy in northern Pakistan.

I hope the story is accurate.

Official 'Fact' Sheet.

Posted by: limes at September 5, 2006 10:25 PM

If "reliable" sources like ABC, a jihadi general, Richard Clarke, and the Nixon Center claim that Pakistan is granting Al Qaeda autonomy, it must be true. - above

The story is indeed ridiculous, and hard to believe-- so much so that I did not post it without first looking for corroborating sources. A few of them:

al-Jazeera
Rediff
Daily Times (Pakistan)

ABC just did the best job I could find of framing it in terms of implications for the "war on terror."

Posted by: MarisolJW at September 5, 2006 10:26 PM

our allies seem to be running thin...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5318354.stm

Posted by: chinkinthearmor at September 5, 2006 10:47 PM

I welcome the overthrow of Musharref, and Bin Laden getting his hands on those nukes. Then we can settle this thing the way it should have been settled on September 11, 2001. The war on terror will be over and the THE WAR will be on. Finally.

Posted by: August22 at September 5, 2006 09:49 PM

If only we were that lucky.

Posted by: km at September 5, 2006 10:49 PM

George and Condi have no interest in capturing Osama cuz they cannot let go of the fantastic dream George articulated so well on the evening 9/12.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 5, 2006 07:16 PM

By now, it is well known that "the fantastic dream George articulated so well on the evening 9/12", was nothing but an empty promise, if not a down-right lie, while "dhimmi-blind" Condi sees 'benevolence (!?) in the hear of Islam'. So much of Bush's 'war on terror' and the ally the Islamic/terrorist republic of Pakistan.

Posted by: Alert at September 5, 2006 10:49 PM

Bin Laden shouldn’t be worried, he can always come over stateside and start up his road construction company again (peacefully) as a Disadvantaged Business Enterprise under Chapter 49 of the Code of Federal Regulations. I didn't need the work anyways...

§26.67 What rules determine social and economic disadvantage?
(a) Presumption of disadvantage. (1) You must rebuttably presume that citizens of the United States (or lawfully admitted permanent residents) who are women, Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, Asian-Pacific Americans, Subcontinent Asian Americans, or other minorities found to be disadvantaged by the SBA, are socially and economically disadvantaged individuals.

Disadvantaged Business Enterprise Criteria .

Posted by: limes at September 5, 2006 10:54 PM

Many, too many people know, must know where OBL is hiding. That is unlikely to be a cave, but much rather a larger city. "Civilians" protect him...
It is quite impossible NOT to know after all this time for the Pakistan security spooks where he is.

How many billions did the US 'donate' to Pakistan to buy their 'help' in the "WoT?"
In any case too many, far too many. What has the Bush-administration got to show for it? Little if anything. Pakistan wants more incl. F-16 fighter jets.

Mushi is holding on to his seat for now, he is the best we can get for our money. Whatever comes after him will be worse, no doubt.
Bush is now back to fighting "extremism"- in his latest speech.

No, we are not getting anywhere with this, not yet.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 5, 2006 11:12 PM

If a hellfire missle from a Predator Drone falls in a Pakistani forest full of Taliban, and there are no Pakistani army troops to hear, does it make a sound?

Posted by: j.pickens at September 5, 2006 11:17 PM

storage manager said :
"The Danger is real....and now the President has joined his voice to those of ours"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Talk is cheap, so what's he going to DO about it ? Is he going to stop Iran from getting a nuke or just talk ?

Posted by: bondservant at September 5, 2006 11:46 PM

The naked truth is that the ENTIRE civilized world is incapable of disarming approximately 2,500 Hezbollah guerillas in Lebanon dug into a few hundred square miles.

Pakistan has a similar 'loss of sovereignity' problem. And now that I think of it, so does part of Malmo, Sweden!

Posted by: poetcomic1 at September 6, 2006 12:00 AM

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFF!!!

Posted by: BIRDDDOG at September 6, 2006 12:10 AM

Marisol:

I didn't claim the story was untrue--I just pointed out the unreliability of the sources quoted, among other things. Al Jazeera, Rediff, and the Pakistan Daily times are even more unreliable than the primary sources.

I wasn't attacking the messenger (you,) just the message. I prefer to take a "wait and see" attitude--as I'm sure you do as well, despite your obvious distrust of the Bush administration. I enjoyed your article.

Just so you know, my name is Jeff Bargholz, not "above." Don't intentionally slight me by refusing to acknowledge me personally.

I haven't done that to you, and I don't plan to.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 1:13 AM

Jeff, I've paid my money...

Posted by: limes at September 6, 2006 1:31 AM

The Texas Twit doesn't get it. None of his cabinet/handlers seems to get it. And I doubt whoever replaces him in '08 will get it.

"It" is this: we aren't at war with Islamofascists, Shi'a extremists, or isolated nutbags who have "hi-jacked the 'Religion of Peace.'"

We are at war with Islam. It is Them or Us. We didn't want it that way or make it that way, but that is how it is.

I prefer Us.

Posted by: give me doughnuts at September 6, 2006 1:45 AM

August22 said

I welcome the overthrow of Musharref, and Bin Laden getting his hands on those nukes.

Why? Why should anyone have to hope that OBL can attack us with nuclear weapons, in order for us to take the jihad seriously? Why can't we, today, five years after 9/11 and countless jihadist attacks since then, take the jihad seriously NOW? Why can't the Administration tomorrow, or 5 years ago, take the fight to the real jihadists (as in Pakistan), instead of chasing phantom WMD's in a country without ties to jihadists? Why can't our borders be sealed tomorrow, or 5 years ago, and not allow any more Muslim immigration? Why is it going to take another, or worse, attack like 9/11 for anything to happen?

I wasn't around at the time, but I doubt that people on December 8th, 1941 were sitting around hoping that the Japanese invaded California and Oregon and Washington state, because then FDR could really start to take on the Axis powers. And I know that on December 8th, 1941, FDR didn't declare war on Mexico, and announce that after the military defeat, we would stay in Mexico, rebuilding their infrastructure and giving them "democracy" and vowing to stay there until the Mexicans decided it was time for us to leave, no matter what the cost to us in lives or money, and all the while Germany continued to threaten the world and grow their sphere of influence.

This Administration's strategy, or lack thereof, is stunningly, breathtakingly, insane.

Posted by: special_guest at September 6, 2006 2:03 AM

August22:

"The only moderate leader of an islamic country, Musharref, the only one to denounce islam.."

musharraf is such an OUTrageously crafty, consummate,born taqiyya Terrorist that at times he unwittingly provides macabre chuckles too.

When asked by some reporters whether he had really killed one of his deadly proteges,(as he periodically *does*, to lull the gullible into somnolence) pat came his facile rely:

"yes ,i am 200% sure" followed within hours by "now, i am 500% sure".

Like a fatal strain of malarial germs in one's blood stream, they ( islimes the world over) only *appear* to go dormant wreaking undetected havoc all the while.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 6, 2006 2:07 AM

Jeff Bargholz said

Don't intentionally slight me by refusing to acknowledge me personally.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. In the interest of clarity, I almost always attribute a name to a quote, even though sometimes it might give the impression that the response is directed at a person, rather than the ideas that were stated, and cause hard feelings.

But in this case, the lack of personal attribution seems to cause hard feelings, though I'm sure nothing could have been further from Marisol's intention.

Marisol doesn't. Robert does. Hugh doesn't. No big deal, really.

Posted by: special_guest at September 6, 2006 2:21 AM

"if you kill enough of them, they'll stop fighting"- Curtis LeMay

beautyful saying and so true to war.

problem is- it goes both ways.

how many have we lost to the Jihadies?

and we are already stopping the fight.

Posted by: samUwell at September 6, 2006 2:55 AM

"I think there is a Muslim nation, which is extremely dangerous to the West, which is packed with Taliban and al-Qaeda supporters and which does have a bomb, and it's called Pakistan."

This Comment by Robert Frisk is "200%" :) True.

If the world wants to live in PEACE then we must destroy this Nation and must make the Mullahs & Madrassa educated Military of Pakis to accept other beliefs and Cultures too.

I don't understand Why the Hell USA, UK, Holland,Germany and other European Countries are still giving Visa & Emigration facilities even though it is Clear that the TERRORIST EPICENTRE is in Pakistan and the Citizens of Pakistan(read muslims) WIll NEVER EVER integrate with the Host nations culture and Laws.

Posted by: Jimmy at September 6, 2006 4:46 AM

Ronin:
"Call this what it is, the surrender of pakistan. As a nuclear power their surrender to islamic fascists speaks for itself. Our troops are now surrounded and our options are simple. We also surrender or we prepare to annihilate them."

Well, there you have it. Pakistan will now supply Iran with a nuclear weapon. Peachy.

Naturally, since we "made friends" with Musharaf as our ally, we will do nothing.

Let's hope this lame-duck president will surprise us all with a last effort on his way out to send a wake up message to these Muslamanuts. Not just in one country but in all they are in. We must have embedded undercover in their sleeper cells who will do the job from the inside out. and all at once with one coordinated message.

This would let them know we are not fooled by these ridiculous threats and nitterings. We would be fighting them on their own level with their own tools. Don't arrest them. Infiltrate them, then anihilate them. Our time. Our choice. Our place.
Oh, and when the job is done, wrap them in pig skins, leave one alive to tell the tale, as did General Pershing in the late 1890's.

I believe in creating rapport with communication delivered at the level of the recipient. Otherwise, there will be no communication.

Posted by: alert-up-usa at September 6, 2006 5:58 AM

Bush gets played by everyone because he's a simpleton. Putin, Fox, Musharff, Chalabi... and even wants to give Iran a reactor and all sorts of welfare if they promise not to build nuke weapons.. He'll never learn. Seriously for our safty he needs to be impreached and a real wartime president needs to be appointed.

Posted by: Zebo at September 6, 2006 6:42 AM

musharraf is such an OUTrageously crafty, consummate,born taqiyya Terrorist that at times he unwittingly provides macabre chuckles too.

Yes, he is crafty, but not a jihadist. He is still the most moderate islamic leader. And because of that, his own people are unhappy with him. That's the point.

Posted by: August22 at September 6, 2006 7:00 AM

Why? Why should anyone have to hope that OBL can attack us with nuclear weapons, in order for us to take the jihad seriously?

Because that is the only thing that MIGHT wake us up. And waking up to the threat of islam is the most important step in defeating it. The biggest complaint of anti-jihadists is that the da'wa continues unabated because our leaders, and our people, have not woken up to the peril that islam represents to our civilization.

This is not about a war on terror. Not for me. This is about the dissolution of our civilization. While our authorities are fighting a war on terror, they lose the plot. Stopping the next truck bombing, does nothing to stop the da'wa. Only by waking up to the insidious nature of islam, can the da'wa be curtailed. And the only way to wake up 300 million people is with a bang.

Posted by: August22 at September 6, 2006 7:06 AM

Despite this latest treachery by Pakistan, the Bush admin will accelerate its shipment of F-16s that Pakistan needs badly.

So much for the War on Terror. :P

Posted by: sanman at September 6, 2006 7:54 AM

Despite this latest treachery by Pakistan, the Bush admin will accelerate its shipment of F-16s that Pakistan needs badly.

So much for the War on Terror. :P

Posted by: sanman at September 6, 2006 7:55 AM

August 22,

You are entirely Wrong Friend,

In 1999 when Mushraff took over Pakistan reigns in a coup and till 2001 No One knew him Even President Bush did not knew his name when asked by a reporter to Name the Ruler of Pakistan.

But 9/11 changed all, Pakistan was going through its worst Political & economic crisis even a break up of Pakistan was on cards. BUT as a god sent oppurtunity Mushraff joined Bush camp not because he wanted to go after Terrorists (Taleban was the own creation of Pakistan and Pakistani Madrassa educated religious Bigots"Talibs" all came form Pakistan's NWFP)but out of Necessity.

Also note that the ISI (Pakistani Intelligence Agency) comes direct under Mushraff's jurisdiction who is also President cum COAS.

Mushraff is Number ONE crook and Jihadist. In front of Foriegn Journlist he will wear a liberal COAT and in company of Mullahs he will wear Fundamentlist Coat.

Posted by: Jimmy at September 6, 2006 8:26 AM

Jeff Bergholz writes:

"A pull out would allow American forces to go in without jeopardizing the lives of Paki troops, who would only get in their way"

The reason why American forces didn't go into Pakistan, or even go into the part of Afghanistan on the Pak border, in large numbers was not because we cared about Pak troops "getting in our way." It was because Musharraf asked us not to. He knows how weak his government is, sitting atop a huge radicalized Muslim population; and the presence of a big American "footprint" might so antagonize the Pakistanis as to get him overthrown altogether, and replaced by a radical regime that would hand al-Qaeda some nukes to play with.

Failure to put enough troops on the Afghan-Pak border to seal it, helped Osama to escape from Tora Bora back in November 2001. When the Afghan War started in October 2001, I predicted that if Osama managed to escape from our trap there, we might never catch him. He did, and we haven't.

And that dynamic is still as true today as it was 5 years ago, which is why American troops are not going to go there in large numbers.

The only good news out of this (such as it is) is that if Osama and al-Qaeda are given an ostensibly safe sanctuary inside Pakistan, as years go by they may get careless and Osama may emerge into the open just long enough for our Special Forces to take a shot at him. But that could take years; Osama is too smart to think the U.S. won't still be after him, so he's going to remain in hiding long after this agreement is reached.

Posted by: Steven L. at September 6, 2006 11:42 AM

What am I entirely wrong on?

I never said Musharref is an ally. Pakistan under his rule has been an exporter of jihad. But Musharref is the only islamic leader to badmouth islam. That is a fact. And for that, he is unpopular with his own population.

Posted by: August22 at September 6, 2006 12:26 PM

special_guest writes:

"I wasn't around at the time, but I doubt that people on December 8th, 1941 were sitting around hoping that the Japanese invaded California and Oregon and Washington state, because then FDR could really start to take on the Axis powers.

After Pearl Harbor, the whole country was united to fight Japan. But the only reason FDR was able to declare war on Nazi Germany as well, was because Hitler stupidly declared war on the U.S. first. Otherwise I'm not sure Congress would ever have passed a declaration of war against both Japan and Nazi Germany.

(Hitler was not obligated to declare war on the U.S. The pact he signed with Japan obligated Germany to come to Japan's aid if Japan were attacked by the U.S. first. But since in this case it was a clear case of Japanese aggression, Hitler could have played his cards shrewdly, sent Roosevelt his condolences, stayed out of it entirely--and World War II might have turned out very differently. But Hitler's mania, once again, got the better of him.)

Now in the current so-called War on Terror, the American public is still united on the need to defeat al-Qaeda. But that's a far cry from saying that the American public, and Congress, will support waging war against any Islamic country Bush wishes to go to war against.

Posted by: Steven L. at September 6, 2006 12:28 PM

Steven L. said

Not true.

Uh, which part isn't true? That I was not around in 1941? That American citizens did not hope Japan would deliver a second, more powerful, blow to the U.S.? That I doubt it? That FDR was going to take on the Axis powers, as soon as the U.S. was attacked, not five or ten years later?

Germany declared war on the U.S. the same day that the U.S. declared war on Germany. The conservatives were very isolationist and anti-war before Pearl Harbor, but as you agree, the country was united after Pearl Harbor. I cannot imagine a scenario where the U.S. would have stood by and watched Germany take over Eurasia, no matter how much taqqiyah Hitler spouted.

But here is the interesting part:

Now in the current so-called War on Terror, the American public is still united on the need to defeat al-Qaeda. But that's a far cry from saying that the American public, and Congress, will support waging war against any Islamic country Bush wishes to go to war against.

"...the need to defeat al-Qaeda". There are so many jihadist groups out there, al-Qaeda is only one. That is why it is so frustrating when a jihadist strikes in the U.S. or elsewhere, and the only media/government response is "he had no known links to Al Qaeda", therefore it's not terrorism, no need to worry.

And who is the one that painted this conflict, over and over, including to the present, as being against Al Qaeda, not a war waged by Islam, the Religion of Peace, that Noble Religion, against non-Muslims? Who should be giving speeches explaining to the U.S. citizens about why readers of the Qur'an think that they are justified, or even mandated, to commit violence against non-Muslims? Who should be building a concensus about the real enemy, not picking one small faction and pretending that is the enemy?

Secondly, I don't accept the premise that the only, or best, way to fight the jihad is by "waging war against any Islamic country". Instead of trying to spread democracy at gunpoint in the Middle East, how about protecting democracy within the U.S.? How about sealing the borders, how about restricting jihadist immigration, how about educating the people about what the Qur'an actually says? We can do all those things, and nobody dies. And when an Islamic nation threatens our existence with WMD's, we destroy that WMD program, while keeping U.S. troops as far out of harm's way as possible. But here's the difference: we don't stick around and "help" our sworn enemies rebuild so they can do it again. If we can sow discord between Muslim factions, then let them fight each other. If true democratic movements arise in Islamic lands, we can support them.

I enjoyed your posts, BTW.

Posted by: special_guest at September 6, 2006 1:22 PM

August22:
But Musharref is the only islamic leader to badmouth islam. That is a fact. And for that, he is unpopular with his own population.

If what you say is true(badmouth islam), why is the islamist MMA supporting his govt.?

Posted by: infidel11 at September 6, 2006 3:07 PM

He has suffered several jihadi assassination attempts. His government is hanging by a thread. He's a little too cozy with Bush for their liking. Kind of like the House of Saud, except worse. And if he goes, Bin Laden gets the nukes.

Posted by: August22 at September 6, 2006 3:25 PM

He has suffered several jihadi assassination attempts. His government is hanging by a thread. He's a little too cozy with Bush for their liking. Kind of like the House of Saud, except worse. And if he goes, Bin Laden gets the nukes.

August22, your ignorance makes me laugh. If Musharraf were to criticise Islame *let alone badmouth) he would be imprisoned under the Blasphemy laws of his country, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The assasination attempts appar dodgy, they might have franed up the whole incident to get western symptahies.

General Musharraf is a military dictator and ex-director of ISI, the shady pseudo-militray organisation that has been the umbrella for umpteen organisations that have waged jihad against India, Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammed etc. Infact even Taliban is an ISI progeny.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at September 6, 2006 3:50 PM

Jimmy:

"Mushraff is Number ONE crook and Jihadist. In front of Foriegn Journlist he will wear a liberal COAT and in company of Mullahs he will wear Fundamentlist Coat".

Absolutely.

All the assassination attempts, I repeat, were (are) stage managed to hoodwink the West into believing he stood (stands) in relief from the terrorists/jihadists.

Old habits die hard. The West is simply unable to jettison this sluttish paramour called pakistan. Be it musharraf or any arraf makes no difference. Of course far better than india which is the worst possible slut that is hell bent on servicing its most bestial abusers for FREE.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 6, 2006 4:02 PM

Crows&Cows, I agree that India should take a leaf outta the Pakistani book. Create a 9/11 sort of tragedy and get billions of $$$ in aid.

Posted by: infidel11 at September 6, 2006 4:21 PM

Infidel11,

Perish the thought for God's sake. May such tragedies strike the jihadis alone the world over. Total annihilation of evil is Wealth and Peace.

The import of what I wrote:

India has not given up pining for reunion with pakibeggardesh. Has been making only masochistic appeasements to jihadists both within and without.

Conquering one's stoop is far more gracious than "stooping to conquer".

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 6, 2006 4:42 PM

I'll take a Indian slut who services for free any time.

I don't think we should underestimate our Indian friends. I have many and they're smart people. They're not stupid about the threat either. They tell me stories about the local mo-foes running up the Paki flags any time India plays that country in a cricket match. How infantile. I think they should boot any idiots left behind after the partition who insist on indulging their Paki - fantasies in like manner.

I think we should do some more offshore outsourcing regarding the Paki matter and hire the Indian army to march across the border to hook up with NATO Forces coming from the other side. That's Afghanistan for the Americans out there. We don't look at maps enough you know. Wouldn't that be good? We can probably save money outsourcing to the Indian army as well. They would march twice as many kilometers (that's 0.6 of a mile all you Americans out there) for the same $$$ and wouldn't ask for a pension in 20 years either. Good fellows all.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at September 6, 2006 5:04 PM

Bush gets played by everyone because he's a simpleton.

Posted by: Zebo at September 6, 2006 06:42 AM

So, Dubya is a 'simpleton' for his low-wit timidity? He is not a 'simpleton' when it comes to opening borders for his corporate chronies, when it comes to holding hands with his wahabi business fiancerrs, when it comes to denouncing his fellow American minutemen. And finally, to use government machinery to help his wahabi financers off to safety after his fellow Americans were murdered.

Simpleton, huh?

Posted by: Alert at September 6, 2006 5:15 PM

Vikrant, you have no clue. How can they imprison the president when he is the dictator of Pakistan? To imprison him, they would have to overthrow him. And that is the danger he faces everyday from the jihadists. That's my point. Let's talk reality and not hyperbole.

Here is the quote straight from the horses mouth. Musharref is comparing muslim societies with those of the world:

Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race. The time has come for Islamic nations to take part in collective self-criticism.

That quote is one of the most popular quotes on these pages. And I like to use it when debating islamic apologists.

I know you're indian, so you hate the pakies, so do I. I'm not defending Pakistan, I'd like to nuke them.

My point is that Musharaff is not Bin Laden. Can you imagine bin laden saying that?

Posted by: August22 at September 6, 2006 6:11 PM

One quality that I come to respect about Pakies is that they are consistent when it comes to lying.

There you have it today a denial of this story from yesterday. I guess they are pressing 'W' for fast delivery of F16s. Why would a peace loving Jihadi country like Pakiland would desperately want F16s? Perhaps, it will give them some sort of legitimacy of bragging rights in South Asia.

Folks, Pakiland is a serious threat to the entire civilized World. You only have to listen to the news originating from them. It scares me shitless to think that these nit-wits are capable of delivering nuclear weapons if they were cornered. Thanks to Netherlands for helping them to build Nuclear capabilitites in the first place.

Posted by: OneEyedWink at September 6, 2006 6:14 PM

Steven L.:

Save the Tora Bora DNC talking points for Michael Moore and the other bookstore latte lovers.

Paki troops would get in the way of any US troop movements, even if they were cooperating with them. If a large hunt for Bin loser is launched in Waziristan, it would be better if Paki troops were elsewhere.

Bush will send as many troops into Pakistan as he thinks are necessary to do the job if he thinks Bin Loser is there--regardless of your idiotic, politically partisan predictions. Maybe you should give him a call and tell him you know for a fact he is hiding there.

Dolt.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 6:49 PM

This is terrible news! The Pakistani military isn't going to catch Bin Laden? But ... we were all counting on them. What are we gonna do now!

Posted by: Malta_1565 at September 6, 2006 7:37 PM

... just so you know, I put the word "sarcasm" in XML style angle brackets in the commnet above but they were stripped out when it posted.

Posted by: Malta_1565 at September 6, 2006 7:41 PM

Folks, Pakiland is a serious threat to the entire civilized World.

Posted by: OneEyedWink at September 6, 2006 06:14 PM

Look at Pakistan's track record:

- "Islamic Republic of Pakistan".

- Terror in Kashmir since early 90s.

- Hijacked Indian Airlines Flt. 814 to release :
1. LeT chief Mahmood Akhter
2. Ahmed Omar Shiekh (the murder of Danny Pearl).

- ISI supporting Taleban in Afghanistan.

- One of the countries to recognize Taleban.

- Funded 9/11.

- M Q Khan proliferated nuclear secreats.

- Housed KSM and Ramzi-Bin-Al-Shib.

- Prevented US forces from capturing Bin Laden.

IF that i snot a terorrist nation, what is?

Posted by: Alert at September 6, 2006 8:05 PM

Today we are the poorest, the most illiterate, the most backward, the most unhealthy, the most un-enlightened, the most deprived, and the weakest of all the human race. The time has come for Islamic nations to take part in collective self-criticism.

My point is that Musharaff is not Bin Laden. Can you imagine bin laden saying that?

Posted by August22 at September 6, 2006 06:11 PM

August22, You realize that the above that you so fondly quote, means nothing when it comes to Infedels. Musharraf and Bin-Laden belong to the "Umma", if you know what that means.

Posted by: Alert at September 6, 2006 8:13 PM

Can we disband the Musharraf fan club? He's very much on the side of Jihad - as his speech to his own country in Urdu in the wake of 9/11 amply demonstrates.

P.S. Alert, I wasn't implying that Bush isn't responsible: I was implying that Bush can't be one of those who remembers the Bush docrine.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 6, 2006 8:14 PM

OneEyedWink:

"One quality that I come to respect about Pakies is that they are consistent when it comes to lying".

PreCISEly! Same applies for fire and brimstone belching mullahs as they explicitly state their mission.

It is the leftists,msm,islime apologists and sinister agendas bearing vested interests in denial mode, charlatan *godmen*, useful & useless idiots who are more culpable.

A_Plague_on_Both_Houses,

The pathetically wry irony is Hindus who are well aware of mo's threat are few and defanged. As the indian state wields brutally ruthless power.It has ALways been a khanisthan practising sham thaqqiya democracy (as Sanman says- red green alliance).No accountability, no punishment for CRIMINAL corrupt politicians.

When pukisthan could not blow up *indian* Parliament due to shortage of igniting stuff, a HINDU had written :

"Had I been there,I would have tossed my cigarette lighter".

India has all the intelligence but wantonly clueless.West has the will but dunno about intelligence (read paki fascination).The Indian flight was hijacked by pakis,one of them a british citizen who was welcomed back to safety there. (adding "terrorists" would be tautological)The newly married HINDU bride on her honeymoon was handled as per koranic injunctions after the defending Husband's throat was slit and body dumped in Dubai....

The sleaziest sluts of india wanted more cricket,cross border "good will" (SIC) tangoeing...need I say more?

August22,
When the inshaallah earthquake struck muzaffarabad, the pukis made a bonfire out of koran copies to warm themselves up.Would you say they are all innocent,democracy thirsting islime denouncing poorest souls?

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 6, 2006 11:42 PM

August 22,
"I know you're indian, so you hate the pakies, so do I. I'm not defending Pakistan, I'd like to nuke them."

Its not only them its the Ideology which is to be seen off or brought to common sense.

When the ideology teaches "IF you kill an infidel or Die killing, "you will get 72 virgins & 12 pearl Like Boys :)this is the MOST WORST & deplorable Verse which must be abolished and which is causing all the Suicide bombing.

A sex hungry Muslim (almost all are LUSTful Dogs) will do anything to get the 72+12 ecstasy.

Dear Crows&Cows

To an extent its right the Indian Govt is gutless BUT as in every Democracy the Indian Govt has also got a visionless LEFT and a Anti Indian Muslim Minority.(around 10 million).
Also the world and Islamic countries will start to CRY wolf If India attacks the Jihadist Terrorist camps of Pakistan.

Posted by: Jimmy at September 7, 2006 4:15 AM

Dear Jimmy,

Thanks."There might be a million reasons but NEVER a single excuse".One Englishman said that.

Indians CANNOT escape from their share of well deserved bloodiest blows. Call it tsunami/pestilence/plague/natural disasters/earthquakes /whatever....know these also constitute God's panoply of Weapons.

"A cloistered virtue can never be praised either"
which is why I admire ISRAEL and America who do *care* for their citizens and *attempt* to.India has been collecting weapons to display during parades....What would you call a person who barks despite having dogs?

Thigh slappers and moustache twirlers are only fit for perniciously idiotic indian movies.

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 7, 2006 5:01 AM

Hi
"which is why I admire ISRAEL and America who do *care* for their citizens"

Agree with that,

BUT let go 100 reasons India got its legitimate chance to finish Jihadist camps of Pakistan when they attacked parliament (Craddle of democracy) BUT still India did not attack them. I think Indians are too much carried away by the Ghandhian Philosophy of Non-violence.

Israel is one of the most strongest nation with a very good WILL power. I too admire their GUTS.
If Israel did not have the Guts it would have been a graveyard by now.

:) I agree with you about the Indian Movies which are Idiotic and with no real life entertainment.

Posted by: Jimmy at September 7, 2006 6:03 AM

C&C, so true about the charade of 'peace process'.

Visiting a Indian website(rediff.com) on the day of bomb blasts in India, I was appalled by the pic that was shown on the news homepage: Indian Foreign Secretary handing a check of $25 million to the pakistanis for the earthquake relief. An act of astouding idiocy. But the comments on the webpage were quite refreshing and 99% of posters were against the Indian goverment's largesse.

World is waking up against the menace of Islam slowly but surely.

Posted by: infidel11 at September 7, 2006 6:13 AM

Jimmy and Infidel11 ,

The core reasons: Vast majority of contemporary indians, be they in any part of the world are Spiritually, Ethically BANKRUPT. Hypocrites. But full of grotesque pretentions. Insatiably obsessed with posterior gyrations of indian films but would thunder with holier than thou hubris...."you know,our Hinduism is the greatest,oldest...you know the Gita,the...err..hmm...Western values decadent....".

Lecherous gluttons, fawning over self pimping false prophets; by feasting & celebrating festivals *alone*, thinks, can earn a privileged position near God.

When I read, certain indian *silicon valley colonizers* thunderingly demanding to be christened "Veda managers" I guffawed out the loudest. I wrote to a jingoistic blogger:

"Had I been the President of America, would have socked and tossed you into the Pacific..." which of course he did not publish:))

The frogs that live in closest proximity to the lotuses do not know of the existence of Nectar in them.They are so endowed by the Maker, never to be able to extract also.It is the fortunate honeybees alone that are so Blessed!

Many Westerners with their sincere quest and laser like intellect have benefitted more from Upanishads and Adi Shankarar's Works etc, etc.

I would not be surprised if some indians are grating the Scriptures to try out some new fangled recipes! Ah yes, most indians suffer from *paralysis by analysis* and their definition of Democracy is :
*Buy the people, far the people, off the people* protected by Commandos...spiritual titans!!

Posted by: Crows&Cows at September 7, 2006 9:29 AM

THIS IS a good site..

I am heartened to see many people able to see through the charade of islam and muslims..

SOme of the muslims are good and moderate.. But most would not be ready to even say one word when fellow muslims with them in their mosques breath violence and hatred.. why?

Because they dont care about non muslims anyway..

I admire Bush, Blair and their conviction.. I only wish they were not democratic leaders.. If they had not been democratic leaders, they would have been better.. The idiotic and ostrich minded liberals have tied their hands..

and to Crows and cows...you are an idiot..

Dont think that pakis can get on with what they are doing.. Remember no one stays calm forever.. Indians do have a high tolerance to persecution.. But not forever.

THen NEW india you have not seen. The youth of modern India are not the same as the one bfore..

The next gen is aggressive and confident and has conviction..

Wait a decade or two and see. Pakis and guys like you who support pakis will get what you deserve.. A big hard kick in the B***.....

Posted by: 4freeworld at September 7, 2006 11:50 AM

Hey everyone..

Nothing like the power of a state..

I only wish all the free people of the world have the conviction and courage to encourage their leaders to use their armies to destroy ( i mean destroy.. not just conquer)..

The only way to kill a weed is to root it out and burn it.. Otherwise it will only fester and trouble you later...

Please do make an effort.. Please do forward all your enlightening thoughts to your friends. Enlighten your friends, brothers, families, colleagues on the dangers these muslim fascists pose to the world..

These muslim fascists are worse than Nazis.. Nazis dont stay with you and betray you..
THese muslims will stay in your country.. breed in your country.. and betray you..

I DONT KNOW IF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE.. BUT I READ ON REPORTS ONLINE...

MUSLIMS IN FRANCE, SWEDEN NORWAY, AUSTRALIA GANGRAPE CHRISTIAN WOMEN... AND CONVERT THEM INTO MUSLIMS..

PLEASE DO GOOGLE IT AND SEE FOR ITSELF. POOR NON MUSLIM WOMEN.. THEY SUFFER AT THE HANDS AND SEXUAL ORGANS OF THE MUSLIMS.. BCAUSE WE NON MUSLIM GUYS HAVE BEEN DUMB ENOUGH TO IGNORE IT..

NO LONGER..

EDUCATE ALL YOUR NON MUSLIM ( CHRISTIAN, HINDU, JEWS, BUDDHISTS, ATHEIST) FRIENDS OF THE DANGERS POSED BY THE EXPANSIONIST, VIOLENT KILLER BRAND OF MUSLIM..

IF ALL OF YOU DO THIS AND INCREASE THE AWARENESS, OUR LEADERS WOULD BE MORE WILLING TO DESTROY THE MENACE..

PLEASE HEED..START TODAY.. EMAIL YOUR FRIENDS.. CALL THEM.. WATCH NEWS WITH THEM AND DISCUSS AND ENCOURAGE AAND EDUCATE YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS...

Posted by: 4freeworld at September 7, 2006 12:02 PM

Hey everyone..

Nothing like the power of a state..

I only wish all the free people of the world have the conviction and courage to encourage their leaders to use their armies to destroy ( i mean destroy.. not just conquer)..

The only way to kill a weed is to root it out and burn it.. Otherwise it will only fester and trouble you later...

Please do make an effort.. Please do forward all your enlightening thoughts to your friends. Enlighten your friends, brothers, families, colleagues on the dangers these muslim fascists pose to the world..

These muslim fascists are worse than Nazis.. Nazis dont stay with you and betray you..
THese muslims will stay in your country.. breed in your country.. and betray you..

I DONT KNOW IF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE.. BUT I READ ON REPORTS ONLINE...

MUSLIM MEN IN FRANCE, SWEDEN NORWAY, AUSTRALIA GANGRAPE CHRISTIAN ( MOSTLY WHITE )WOMEN... AND CONVERT THEM INTO MUSLIMS..

PLEASE DO GOOGLE IT AND SEE FOR ITSELF. POOR CHRISTIAN WOMEN IN EUROPE AND AUSTRALIA.. THEY SUFFER AT THE HANDS AND SEXUAL ORGANS OF THE MUSLIMS.. BCAUSE WE CHRISTIAN, JEW, HINDU GUYS HAVE BEEN DUMB ENOUGH TO IGNORE IT..

NO LONGER..

EDUCATE ALL YOUR NON--MUSLIM ( CHRISTIAN, HINDU, JEWS, BUDDHISTS, ATHEIST) FRIENDS OF THE DANGERS POSED BY THE EXPANSIONIST, VIOLENT KILLER BRAND OF MUSLIM..

IF ALL OF YOU DO THIS AND INCREASE THE AWARENESS, OUR LEADERS WOULD BE MORE WILLING TO DESTROY THE MENACE..

PLEASE HEED..START TODAY.. EMAIL YOUR FRIENDS.. CALL THEM.. WATCH NEWS WITH THEM AND DISCUSS AND ENCOURAGE AAND EDUCATE YOUR POLITICAL LEADERS AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS...

Posted by: 4freeworld at September 7, 2006 12:04 PM