Indonesia is a moderate country, but it has elements within its society that are anything but. Some of these elements are ensconced within the government, and they protect jihadis. None of the Bali terrorists have been executed, and its jihadi leader, Abu Bakar Ba'asyir, is walking free and boasting of an islamic conquest of Australia and the wider civilized world.

American foreign policy concerning Indonesia is woefully inadequate. If Team Bush doesn't wake up, a moderate ally could become a major breeding ground for terrorists. If a Democrat becomes President in 09, that's a given.

The American public displays a level of self destructive ignorance concerning this enormous country that makes the administration look positively prescient. It will be our fault if we allow Indonesia to become a jihad factory.

Bangung, America! Indonesia punya banyak muslim fanatik. Tidak tidur, orang America.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 12:42 AM

Oops! I meant to write "Bangun, America." Most people don't care enough about Indonesia to notice, of course.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 12:54 AM

Indonesia is more harsher to drug trafficers than to terrorists. What is wrong with these people????

Posted by: Sti at September 6, 2006 1:15 AM

The vast majority of Americans, don't even know where indonesia is! Maybe we should petition them to change their name to indoamnesia!
The huge population of muslims that reside there, must feel comforted by this anonimity. They can proceed with their required participation in the jihad againt the "unbeliever" completely unimpeaded!
What happened to people learning geography , history and what type of people live in these foriegn lands?

Posted by: attila911 at September 6, 2006 2:07 AM

The article didn't mention it, but I heard on talk radio that the website was published some hours BEFORE the bombing. Can anyone confirm this?

Posted by: Xero G at September 6, 2006 2:31 AM

Eight years, but of course there is no way he will be in prison eight years from now. Every holiday, it is tradition in Indonesia to reduce the sentences of prisoners, as seen here and here. Eight years becomes four years becomes two years becomes 6 months.

Only in Islamic nations would they think of rewarding criminals on holidays. Remember that Mohammad, the slave-owning, caravan-raiding mass murderer/pedophile is "uswa hasana", and "al-insan al-kamil", the Perfect Man.

Posted by: special_guest at September 6, 2006 2:38 AM

Indonesia, like Turkey, is anything but "moderate". The Islamization of Indonesia is well on the way, including the fanaticism. Hijab was nowhere to be seen 30/40 years ago, now all you see is hijab!

Here's the latest:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/indonesia_to_kill_six_australians/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 6, 2006 4:20 AM

Henry, I hear you brother! I agree.
Many people will back you up on this on.
The trouble is that left wing left handed vegans and co DO NOT UNDERSTAND what is going on here. Most MP's and Senators have not read the Koran and don't want to tackle the real difficult issues.
Do you know if Robert has advised a Western government regarding their respective muslim population? I read an article last year that the Blair Labour goverment engaged the services of a member of the Muslim brotherhood "Radman" to advice them on how to understand their respective muslim populations. I mean, HELLO!

Everyday there is hate being preached in the Mosques, loud speakers calling for death to American and Israel. Burning flags of Western countries that provide, clothing housing, safety and aid to Muslim countries. Hostage taking, cutting off heads, terrorist acts, shootings. This is the desire of Satan, not the work a loving,living and forgiving God.

It boils down to 1 simple thing, following the Koran.
The Western governments need to understand the dangers of the Koran. That's why I think it's important for educated people like Robert and people from this website to take this to the next level. Robert/Henry you have my vote as Senator! Hell I'll run as well!
People, who's going to step up to this challenge? Back us up!

Posted by: SandMonkey at September 6, 2006 4:38 AM

Yes, he posted reportedly 1/2 hour before the attack occured, according to

Australian News

Posted by: Texnoterror at September 6, 2006 5:46 AM

Headline: "High school computer teacher jailed for eight years for Bali bombings"

Headline: "We have the Islamic right to kill these journalists and media"

Birds of a feather. As Waffa Sultan once pointed out, many Muslims don't see "the other" as human unless they are Muslim. I think she would agree that absent "the other" Muslims will turn their violence upon each other and then upon themselves.

Very soon, with the development of the techniques for extracting oil discovered in Colorado (an oil field with more oil than all of the Mideast) and the huge oil field recently discovered in the Gulf south of New Orleans, we may soon see the defunding of Jihad madness.

I do not have any great knowledge of the science involved in the discovery of the oil fields noted. However, It appears that they were discovered using a technology that identified them from satellites in space. I noted that the name of the discoverer of the technique was a man named Gold (probably a Jewish scientist). Mr. Gold may soon be worth more than all the gold in the world for Infidels.

Posted by: Frank at September 6, 2006 6:59 AM

I thought there have been two separate terrorist attacks on Bali, not one.

Posted by: remote_control at September 6, 2006 11:13 AM

memo to Jeff Bargholz: Indonesia is NOT a moderate Islamic country --for the reason that there is no such thing as "moderate" Islam. Now, although Islamic ideology can be illegally diluted with outside ideas and concepts of restraint, the dismal fact remains that the Republic of Indonesia is part of the Islamosphere where the Kuran is required to be practiced to the letter. With each passing year, Indonesia moves inexorably closer to being such a fundamentalist Islamic state. You will note as well that litle or no political will exists in Indonesia to change this. And of course this is NOT going to change.

Nothing you or anyone else can state will change this either.

Also, if you believe Indonesia to be 'moderate' why did Indonesians slaughter over one million Christians in 1965? In 1998, there were well-substantiated reports of Muslim Javanese attacking, capturing, and incinerating (yes, burning alive)Chinese Christians in cities such as Surakarta(see Huaren.org for photos of this, if the website is still up). Charred corpses-- while the perps of such horrors were never arraigned? What sort of 'moderation' is THAT, may we ask?????

What Jakarta's PR strategy appears to be is to show a PRETENSE OF MODERATION to the world community. But that phony air of 'moderation' the Republic of Indonesia is presently wearing is overdue to disappear altogether. When it does, beware. Indonesia will then almost certainly prove itself to be an enemy state. A state which the United States will probably wish it hadn't had a hand in helping to found (which it did, shortly after World War 2, when it hadn't realized where Indonesians' affiliations stood).

Posted by: pythagoras at September 6, 2006 4:12 PM

MEMO TO atilla911:

More Americans are familiar with Indonesia than you realize. Not so long ago, it received close to one million American visitors a year. Most Americans DO know where it is. Before it turned into the ghastly Islamofascist carnival of carnage it is today, I EVEN WENT THERE. (Would I go there now? probably not, nor would most westerners I suspect).

Now, as for a change of Indonesia's name? Here's another idea: The Republic of bin-donesia!

Posted by: pythagoras at September 6, 2006 4:20 PM

sheik yer'mami:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you're full of crap.

Hijabs are seen in America. Is America a country of muslim fanatics? Muslims aren't the only Americans and Indonesians to wear headscarves, by the way.

Hijabs WERE seen in Indonesia 30-40 years ago, and they categorically are NOT all you see today. Hijab heads are a minority in Indonesia. Middle aged and older women wear them primarily to cover their hair, because they aren't styling their hair and dressing up to attract men anymore.

Even the fanatics refuse to wear burkas. They wear something called a "jilbab," which is basically a shirt with a hood.

The vast majority of the women who wear jilbabs are not the least bit fanatical. They usually wear them with tight jeans or a skirt. You will see them in every darkened movie theater, engaged in heavy petting sessions with their boyfriends. Jilbabs are worn mainly by young women. Why? Because their parents usually force them to wear them in an effort to project an image of family piety. Once they move out on their own, the jilbabs usually come off and stay off.

Indonesia is nothing like Turkey. You aren't overstating the level of fanaticism there, you're inflating it beyond belief. The islam practiced by the overwhelming majority of Indos is nothing like the islam of the Middle East. In fact, it's islam in name only. True muslims consider it to be heresy.

Indos dig the Western lifestyle. Even the country's largest islamic organization, Nahadlatul Ulama--which runs most of the country's madrassas--is a moderate organization. It espouses the separation of mosque and state, tolerance for religious minorities, and modernization.

The Indonesia you described simply doesn't exist. I don't know where you got your inaccurate descriptions from, but you need to read something else. There's a reason Western tourists travel to Indonesia instead of the Middle East, and the people there are a big part of that reason.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 4:58 PM

Pythagoras:

See the comment I made to Shiek yer'mami above.

"There is no such thing as moderate islam."

That's true. Indonesians don't practice islam. They practice a heresy based on islam.

"The Republic of Indonesia is part of the Islamosphere where the Kuran is required to be practiced to the letter."

Bullshit. The Indonesian government does not practice jihad. Pancasila is the state ideology, and it refutes the tenets of islam in no uncertain terms. The 5 principles of Pancasila are:

1. Belief in one God.
2. A just and civilized society. (Equal rights.)
3. National unity.
4. Democracy guided by representatives of the people.
5. Social justice for all Indonesian people.

Does that sound like the bloodthirsty oppression of the koran? The Indonesians don't think it does, either.

"With each passing year, Indonesia moves inexorably closer to being such a fundamentalist Islamic state. You will note as well that little or no political will exists in Indonesia to change this. And of course this is NOT going to change."

DEAD WRONG. 56 national legislators recently urged President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to abolish sharia-based bylaws already in place in some regencies and cities, or risk the country's disintegration. They presented a petition which included signatories from MUSLIM-based political parties. The House Members said local administrations' implementation of the bylaws contravened the 1945 Constitution and the five principles enshrined in the Pancasila state ideology. Home Minister Muhammad Ma'ruf promised every bylaw judged unconstitutional or in violation of the five basic principles of the state Pancasila ideology would be revoked. The signatories also noted that sharia based bylaws are unenforceable, because the public refuses to abide by them.

Muslims did not "Slaughter" a million Christians in 1965. That's a pinko lie. Most of the people targeted were members of the Indonesian communist party. Ethnic Chinese were also targeted by ethnic Malays.

I'm aware of the muslim violence in Indonesia. I've seen it first hand, and defended myself from it. It's foolish and disingenuous to characterize all of Indonesia as an immoderate country based on the actions of the worst element in its society.

Aside from the people killed on 911, at least 668 people have been murdered by jihadis in America since 1993. Is America an immoderate country? Are we going to join Indonesia in your imagined fanaticism?

There are elements in the Indonesian government that promote or excuse crimes against religious minorities, but it is not the official state policy. Your accusation is wrong.

When America forced Holland to grant the Indonesians "independence," the "affiliations" of the people were not heavily islamic. Suharto promoted the growth of islam during his reign, because he foolishly thought he could use it to his advantage.

Most Americans don't even know WHAT an archipelago is, much less WHERE Indonesia is. Young Americans are especially ignorant.

You obviously didn't learn much about Indonesia while you were there. Your insinuation of insider knowledge is belied by your wild claims concerning conditions on the ground. Did you learn your Indonesian civics lessons in a 5 star hotel in Hindu Bali?

There are only two things you know about Indonesia. Jack, and shit. Saya jauh lebih banyak tahu tentang Indonesia daripada kamu akan pernah tahu. Goblog!

Nothing you or anyone else can state will change this either.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 6, 2006 6:29 PM

Jeff Bargholz: We take exception to your comments. If you were so sure you were right about Indonesia, there would be no need for you to make such personal comments both about me and about Americans in general on the topic, would there? The fact that you have done so undermines my confidence in the depth of your knowledge and your perception of what is going on there.

Your analysis of Islamic influence in Indonesia has failed to convince me, I'm afraid. You apparently don't realize you are NOT the only person who has access to the same information about Indonesia you do; nor do you realize that your interpretation of this information is not the only one possible.

You have omitted several important points about Indonesia and Islam. All of them more important than the definition of the word 'archipelago.'

First, the Indonesian Armed Forces actually control Indonesia and have ruled it with an iron fist since the country's inception. Yes, Pancasila reflects non-Islamic elements. But it has never been made clear whether or not the Indonesian Armed Forces answers to Pancasila in practice (it would appear that it does not). Certainly, the Indonesian Armed Forces could override it if they wish, and that appears to have been the case with the country since its inception. So, it may well be that Pancasila has been made politically moot by the heavily-Islamic Indonesian Armed Forces. You will remember that Ousamah bin Laden publicly praised the Indonesian Armed Forces for conducting its massacres of civilians in East Timor; a crime for which those who perpetrated these massacres were (surprise) never brought to trial. I wonder why that was so...

Secondly, the Indonesia Armed Forces has created at least two internationally notorious Islamic terror organizations, the better known of them being Laskar jihad which massacred thousands of civilians (Christian) in Maluku province. Ambon City has yet to recover from this network's devastating assaults by Laskar Jihad. Ambonese Christians have yet to see any of their assailants of this terrorism organization brought to trial. Guess why? Jakarta is coddling terrorists, at the same time it is using proxies to attack and kill Christians across the 'archipelago.' Sound familiar? It should. 'Fundamentalist' Islamic governments do this all the time in the Middle East. Hey, I thought you said Indonesia was different from the Middle East. Sadly, I am not sure.

After 9-11, a number of al-Qaeda operatives who had been apprehended in Spain told authorities they had received their training in Indonesia. I have read that the Indonesian government does indeed collude with 'fundamentalist' Islamic governments (it trades with them too) and was well aware of the presence of al-Qaeda terrorism traiing camps on its territory; what it did was cover it up.

You have also avoided the topic of 1965, when more than one million Christians were murdered by Indonesians. Try asking their families if they think THAT was the result of bloodthirsty Islamic oppression. By the way, Nahdlatul Utama was involved in those events.

There is also the matter of the Indonesian Armed Forces massacring thousands of Irianese, who posed little threat to the Indonesian national identity. These people never saw justice for Jakarta's brutality either, did they? If this wasn't Islamic morality at work, what sort of morality was it? Pancasila? Tell us, please, Jeff, why couldn't Pancasila at least stop the Indonesian Armed Forces from committing such crimes? Wouldn't you say maybe it is because it is not Pancasila that actually runs Indonesia but the Islamic Indonesian Armed Forces that runs Indonesia?

In 1999, I vacationed at a remote "archipelago" in Indonesia (I will not reveal where in Indonesia they are). In the still of the night (night after night) I heard loud, continuous explosions reverberating across the tropical sea. Many other people there reported hearing these too. The locals explained it was fish-dynamiting on the reefs, which is what I thought it was. However, months after my return home I read of massacres by al-Qaeda throughout the area. And, later, I read that atolls near the islands I had been staying at had been used at that time as bombing practice by al-Qaeda operatives. If as a casual visitor I ran into this, how rare could such a thing be in Indonesia?

Tourism to Indonesia has been declining in recent years. One main reason for this is that, with Christianity and non-Islamic peoples under attack there (with the full knowledge of this situation by the national government and a murderous, Islamic military that has been linked to al-Qaeda)there is a real possibility that western tourists might not be safe going there. And I'd say that is a legitimate point.

ps-As for Indonesian PEOPLE in general, I actually lke them. Too bad Islam neutralizes individual persons, otherwise Indonesia might be a rather wonderful place.

Posted by: pythagoras at September 6, 2006 11:40 PM

Pythagoras:

Spare me your flat Earth descriptions of Indonesia. The real Pythagoras would be appalled. It's ironic that Columbus proved the world was round by trying to sail to Indonesia, but irony isn't the only thing lost on you. It's painfully obvious that you don't know dick about the country. Whining about the well earned insults I slung your way cant hide your ignorance. I suspect you're mildly masochistic.

The dual function (defense and government participation,) of the military was introduced by Suharto when he opportunistically seized power during the attempted communist coup of 1965. After he was deposed, that function came under fire. It is being phased out as we speak.
ABRI (the military,) never ruled Indonesia. Suharto used it to solidify his hold on power, but after he went, power fell to the elected government.

The crimes in East Timor after the vote for independence were carried out by ABRI backed thugs. ABRI did not participate openly. Most of those responsible were avoided justice because of the elements within the government I educated you about.

These elements created Laskar Jihad--not ABRI. The bigotry and violence practiced against the Ambonese, Torajans, etc., is not only based on islam. It is also Javanese bigotry. The ruling Javanese (who were handed their elite status by America,) are actively trying to supplant other ethnic groups. They are universally detested by other islanders, who describe them as treacherous liars and thieves.

There is no concerted effort by the government to impose islam on all of Indonesia, and the Christian areas have managed to repel attempts to do so by islamic elements within the government. The Dayaks of Borneo sent the islamic Madurese fleeing for their lives, and don't allow islam to flourish there.

Al Qaeda agents have operated extensively in America. Is America a jihadist country?

1 million Christians were not murdered in 1965. You are either misinformed, or a bald-faced liar. Either way, your word is worthless. Communists and ethnic Chinese were the main targets. Small numbers of Christians were targeted by local muslim thugs only. There was no pogrom.

America used to practice slavery. Do you condemn it for that? No? Then don't condemn Nahdlatul Ulama for alleged past crimes.

No Papuans have been killed for jihad. They have been killed to prevent them from gaining independence. Don't try to conflate this evil with the evil of islam.

Indonesia IS an archipelago. You cant reveal your super secret archipelago vacation location within Indonesia, because there is no such thing as an archipelago within an archipelago. Thanks for proving my point about the ignorance of America's youth.

The Moluccas, which you are obviously referring to, have never been attacked by Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations have found refuge in Indonesia, but attacks against Christians are carried out by Indonesian muslim groups. The Ambonese are much larger and more powerful than the wimpy Malays, and despite repeated assaults, the Ambonese have been kicking their asses for decades.

Tourism is not in decline because of the Indonesian government. I believe THAT is a legitimate point.

If Indonesia were the islamic hell you caricature it as, you wouldn't "like the people in general."

Do yourself a favor. Stop arguing with me about Indonesia. You don't speak the language, you don't understand the cultures, and you don't know the country's history. You aren't doing yourself any favors by engaging me. For your own sake, give it up.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 7, 2006 1:15 AM

Jeff Bargholz:

Apparently you harbor the notion that hurling epithets and insults at those who disagree with you constitutes legitimate discourse. It does not. I recommend that you stick to the facts (if you could so much as identify one). But doing so is clearly a waste of time because you do not apparently enjoy sufficient soundness of mind to do that.

It would seem that you are a wannabe Muslim who is spewing taqiyya a la Indonesia--which is fine by me. Go ahead. But you're not fooling anyone here.

Not a single thing you have said here is true.
The Indonesian military DID create jihadist terror networks and DID conspire with al-Qaeda. And Ousamah bin Laden DID praise the Indonesian military for its attacks on the East Timorese in the late 1990s. Scream it's not true. But it IS. And there were members of the Jakarta 'parliament' that were complicit in it.
You are very much aware of that. You did not even represent anything I said in your 'rebuttals.' Again, fine. And I repeat one million Christians were massacred in Indonesia. There are Indonesian Christians who have immigrated from there who maintain this, and I believe THEM and NOT YOU.

We hope that Indonesians someday find a way out of Islamia. Islam is the root of most of the countruy's problems. You aren't helping either I might add--enabling Islam.

That said, I will leave you to the paranoid delusions in your fantasy world that truly does NOT exist.

ps-I'm 'engaging' you? Don't flatter yourself. I am LAUGHING at you.

Posted by: pythagoras at September 7, 2006 2:45 PM

Mr Bergholtz is demented if he believes Indonesia is a moderate country.
Also The Australian drug mules are facing the death penalty, why should it be any different for people who murder with bombs.

Posted by: marilyn at September 7, 2006 7:30 PM

Pythadumbass:

Apparently you harbor the notion that hurling lies, misinformation, ignorance, epithets and insults at those who disagree with you constitutes legitimate discourse. It does not. I recommend that you stick to the facts (if you could so much as identify one). But doing so is clearly a waste of time because you do not apparently enjoy sufficient soundness of mind to do that. Your tiny penis is clearly to blame.

I'm a muslim because I don't lie bout Indonesia? Dream on.

Not a single thing you have said here is true.

The Indonesian Military is not a monolithic force capable of doing anything you accused it of. Indonesia is an incompetent, Third World country that cant unite behind any crime, much less jihad. you haven't provided any evidence to the contrary, much less proof. "Saying it don't make it so."

Osama's rantings don't contradict anything I wrote--in any way, shape, or form. I already described the jihadi elements in the Indonesian Parliament (Not the only government body, you hopeless ignoramus.) Stop trying to tar the entire government and country with the same brush. Next you'll claim that Howard Scream, Gollum (Harry Reid,) Nancy Pelosi (Plastic Lector-face,) Ketchup Kerry, et al. represent the American government.

I rebutted each and every one of your insipid claims. How many of mine did you rebut? None, of course. Facts are unassailable, so you didn't even try.

So you believe the "Indonesian Christians" and not me?

I AM AN INDONESIAN CHRISTIAN, YOU FUCKING RETARD! Saya orang Christian Indonesia--bodoh!

Telling the truth does not enable islam. Spreading misinformation like you have does.

You're laughing? Pull your pants up and you'll stop.

P.S., You were unable to refute a single statement I made. You ignored the majority of them. What does that tell you, bencong?

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 8, 2006 2:52 AM

Marilyn: Did you read anything I wrote? I don't believe you did. Go back and educate yourself.

Posted by: Jeff Bargholz at September 8, 2006 2:53 AM

Jeff is right. I live here and have taught Indonesian history. Actually, the rest of what he says about Indonesia is true too. I'd also like to add that Indonesia being the most populous Muslim country is a misleading. People here have to declare what their religion is on their KTP (ID card). There is no space for animist/spiritualist/paganist on the form so they get put down as a Muslim and there are a lot who follow the previously mentioned. A lot of Muslims who practice some form of Islam are spiritualist/animist first in belief and then Muslims. Mostly Muslims from West Java (Sundanese) and from South Sulawesi have a strong identification with Islam.

Muslims in Indonesia can probably be categorized into 4 groups besides the pagans:

NU - Indonesian Islam combined with Traditional islamic values. Spiritualism and Animism with Islam. 40 million adherents. NU paramilitary perform security for churches at Easter and Christmas.

Muhammadiyah - Reformist following a purer form of Islam. 28-30 million adherents

Radicals - MUI, MMI, Laskar Jihad, JI, Islamic Defender's Front. Vocal minority with backing of some politicians and government agencies and military/police.

Liberal Islam- lead by Ulil Abshar which places more emphasis on essence and not form. No pecis, jilbabs, and a lot more relaxed about their religion. Majority of Indonesians.

The majority of Muslims in Indonesia are more worried about how they're going to feed their family than about Islamc ideology or fighting terrorism. When push finally comes to shove I believe they will fight against the fundamentalists. The liberal Muslims are already doing this. Even my friends in Aceh don't want Shariah Law now. They see how restricting it is and that they don't need it. There is a movement there to have it removed and go back to national law.

Jeff, I know what you mean about the rest of Indonesia hating the arrogance of the Javanese. Orang jahat ya!! I've lived in Malang and Jakarta previously and watched them deal with other ethnics. They truly think they are superior yet they are the ones who I find culturally inferior and useless. Everywhere I minister, they complain about the Javanese government (funny they don't say Indonesian). Especially in Aceh!! I was outside of the big mosque in Banda Aceh one time and a bunch of Acehenese men told me that they are still slaves. I asked them what they meant and they said first they were slaves to the Dutch. Then they were slaves to the Japanese in WW II and now they are slaves to the Javanese. They asked me to pray for their freedom. Strange but I see their point.

Posted by: ManadoInfidel at September 9, 2006 3:13 PM