| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Dhimmi Watch | Robert Spencer | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog |  |
|
|
||||||||||
|
|
Over the years we have posted many articles about Pakistan's Islamic schools, showing how they are an ever-fertile breeding ground for jihadists. Here is yet another. Its heading reads: "Pakistan's Islamic schools have been accused of fomenting extremism. But, while their curriculum is avowedly narrow – Koran-memorisation all day, every day – their mullahs are at pains to distance themselves from violence." I wonder if it occurred to the Telegraph editors that spending all day, every day memorizing a book that exhorts believers to "kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" (9:5), "strike the necks" of unbelievers (47:4), make war against Jews and Christians (9:29), beat disobedient wives (4:34) and the like might do a good bit to foment "extremism" in itself.
Well, at least they aren't reading the Book of Joshua, eh, Ralph? I guess that explains why so many more violent extremists are turned out by Baptist Sunday schools than by these madrassas, eh?
"By the book," from the Telegraph, with thanks to all who sent this in:
...Estimates vary, but according to the Pakistan government's religious-affairs ministry, up to 1.5 million of Pakistan's 30 million school-age children study in the country's Islamic schools, or madrassas. Mostly they are the children of the poor, who choose the madrassa over failing government schools.Except for a handful of establishments that have agreed to 'modernise' a curriculum first introduced in the late-17th century, Pakistan's madrassas teach only one subject – the Koran. At this typical urban madrassa, the Jamia Anwaria, in a lower-middle-class suburb of northern Lahore, the pupils are devoting themselves to a single, all-enveloping task – namely committing to memory the more than 6,000 verses of Islam's holy book.
All of them. By heart. During that period all other subjects and ambitions – maths, science, history and humanities – must be put on hold.
Only about 40 per cent of the average class will succeed. A few of these will go on to higher learning, studying the hadith and sunnah, the sayings and example of the Prophet Mohammed, which explain the words they learnt by rote as children. An even smaller number will enter the religious establishment, to become clerics and teachers themselves.
It is, by any definition, a narrow education and one that has been the focus of growing world attention for its role in fomenting the kind of narrow, anti-Western ideology that is at the heart of the current inter-national jihad being waged in Afghanistan, Iraq and beyond.
The fact that two of the July 7 London bombers visited madrassas in Pakistan before the attack – and the current investigation into Pakistani links to the alleged plot to bomb transatlantic flights from Heathrow – has once again raised questions over the significance of Pakistan's madrassas in the fight against Islamist terrorism.
However, contrary to the impression sometimes given by the popular press in the West, madrassas are educational institutions, not military training camps. The only gun on view at the Jamia Anwaria is an ancient shotgun belonging to a security guard dozing on a chair outside....
What a silly, naive paragraph. There are no guns, thus there is no military training. It appears that the Telegraph also never considered the possibility that the madrassas play a role in indoctrination and recruitment, in the service of the same jihad that those undergoing military training are hoping to advance.
The size of the task confronting the students, or talibs, becomes clearer when the madrassa's leader, a genial cleric called Mohammed Khalid Anwari, who fulfils the dual roles of maulana (mullah) and head teacher, explains that none of the children can understand a single word of the sacred book they are learning.
This phenomenon recurs, of course, everywhere that Muslim students are not native speakers of Arabic. And even Arabs today don't speak 7th-century Qur'anic Arabic. It is quite common for even devout Muslims in some places not to have any clear idea of what the Qur'an actually says -- which accounts for some, but not all, of the people who indignantly deny what I report here and in my books about the teachings of Islam.
The Koran is an Arabic text, but the students, many of whom have received basic education before entering the madrassa, are literate only in Urdu. The two languages share an almost identical script, which allows the children to read the words, but not understand them....And what if one of these younger children were curious enough to ask about the meaning of the words? 'If they ask, I tell them the meaning,' the teacher explains. 'But usually they don't ask. Sometimes, when they first arrive, they want translation, but over the passage of time they stop asking questions.
It is not required to understand.' It is this blind faith and obedience required from all students that marks out the madrassa. Secular Pakistanis scornfully describe it as a 'medieval mindset' which Pakistan's increasingly powerful religious establishment uses to control the minds of the masses.
Korans wrapped in clothIn the Jamia Anwaria a list of school rules hangs in the maulana's office: students are forbidden from reading newspapers, playing games inside the madrassa or any 'personal activity'. In the classroom they must read only the Koran.
Idle chatter or fooling about of any kind is not tolerated. Outside class they are permitted to play cricket (the maulana has been known to umpire) or other games. However, by the standards of many rural madrassas this is considered liberal, and even dangerous, practice.
To succeed, the maulana explains, requires great discipline, which is inculcated by a school time-table that reads like that of a Victorian English public school. The chanting and memorising begin at 7am, continuing unbroken until 11.30am. Then there is a break for lunch, which is cooked by the female students, says the maulana, to help them learn how to be 'dutiful wives'.
The boys, who eat, study and pray separately from the girls, race upstairs to a landing above the mosque where they devour platefuls of pilau rice, scooped up with their hands.
They sit on both sides of a long, thin plastic tablecloth with one leg tucked beneath the other. Everyone sits in identical fashion – 'because that is the way the Prophet sat,' the maulana explains proudly.
At 2pm the chanting of verses starts again for another three hours. At 5pm there is two hours of play-time, during which the children either sleep or stretch their legs outside. At 7pm there is another hour's study before dinner is served.
Only then do the exhausted students go to bed. Some go home to their parents, who are mostly shopkeepers and poor merchants, while those who live at the madrassa sleep on rush mats laid out in a simple room above the mosque.
In order to better understand the ideology that underpins institutions like the Jamia Anwaria we visit one of Lahore's oldest and most historic madrassas, the Khuddum-ud-Deen, to which the Jamia Anwaria is affiliated. The madrassa is run by the Deobandi movement, the same radical sect of Islam that created the Taliban, who, until they were ejected in 2001, strove to establish a 'model' Islamic state in Aghanistan.
The Deobandis, formed in the 19th century by a group of Islamic scholars who wanted to purify Islam from the corrupting influences of Hinduism, remain a powerful force in fundamentalist Islam. They are devoted to the establishment of a broad Islamic state, openly espousing what one liberal Pakistani think-tank, the Sustainable Development Policy Institute, described in a report on Pakistan's education system as an 'exclusionary and sectarian worldview'.
The madrassa's leader, Maulana Ajmal Qadri, who is widely revered by his followers as a Muslim pir (saint), makes no apology for his beliefs. 'In our madrassas, we teach the Koranic jihad,' he says. 'This refuses to admit the supremacy of anyone, or any power, but Allah. We believe that the Muslim way is the supreme way, that the Islamic principle is best and that what the rest of the world does is not up to the mark.'
And so begins a two-hour disquisition on the failings and corruptions of the West that are a familiar part of thousands of sermons delivered every Friday – the Muslim holy day – to the faithful masses across Pakistan.
Read it all.
Posted by Robert at September 9, 2006 7:21 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
"Well, at least they aren't reading the Book of Joshua, eh, Ralph? I guess that explains why so many more violent extremists are turned out by Baptist Sunday schools than by these madrassas, eh?"-Robert
As has been pointed out via this site, all of the scriptures of the Jewish and Christian Bible are recognized as having human instruments with regard to God's communications with man, and hence there is a well developed tradition of interpretation of the scriptures among Jews and Christians. So many of the violent parts of the scriptures (especially the old testament)are considered to reflect a primitive culture and are largly ignored by Jews and Christians. (Though I don't know much about the Indian Hindu religion-I'll bet that this is true with them too.)
On the other hand, as we are taught via this site, every word of the Koran is considered to be the exact words of God as taken in dictation via Gabriel by Mohammad. Hence calls to violence against unbelievers in the Koran are not open to interpretation. Hence, as has been pointed out via this site, Islam is the only major religion with a well developed theology that mandates violence against unbelievers. That is an imortant fact in understanding the issue of Jihad (and JihadWatch).
The well developed Islamic theology that mandates violence against unbelivers is the problem and the difference between Islam and the other major religions on earth. That difference is "true Islam".
Posted by: Frank![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 9, 2006 8:10 AM
The Koran is an Arabic text, but the students, many of whom have received basic education before entering the madrassa, are literate only in Urdu. The two languages share an almost identical script, which allows the children to read the words, but not understand them....
And what if one of these younger children were curious enough to ask about the meaning of the words? 'If they ask, I tell them the meaning,' the teacher explains. 'But usually they don't ask. Sometimes, when they first arrive, they want translation, but over the passage of time they stop asking questions.
It is not required to understand.' It is this blind faith and obedience required from all students that marks out the madrassa.
This doesn't make sense. If the students do not understand the Koran, what exactly are they learning? How can they be indoctrinated if they do not understand the language? Are there any classes in Udru teaching them how to be religious Muslims?
What is the relationship between the content of those classes and the Koran?
What a poorly written article.
Posted by: george_rem at September 9, 2006 8:39 AM
It must take enormous determination not to see what's before one's own eyes to wish away the connection between core Islamic doctrine and the chronic bloody violence Islam inflicts upon the world. If only that sort of dogged resolve could be put to constructive use!
Of course, the question of supreme importance is: if a straightforward factual account such as this one won't open people's eyes, what would? Must we watch a mushroom cloud rise over Manhattan or Washington before we awaken, as a nation, to the world's peril?
at September 9, 2006 9:07 AM
Hi, George,
"This doesn't make sense. If the students do not understand the Koran, what exactly are they learning? How can they be indoctrinated if they do not understand the language? Are there any classes in Udru teaching them how to be religious Muslims?
What is the relationship between the content of those classes and the Koran?"
:) There is no need to understand the Language as the alphabets of Urdu & Arabic are the same and its just ROTE learning.
Its not Learning or Understanding its just Indoctrination of some MAD verses uttered by a highway robber turned prophet in 5th century.
Do not think this Is a school or institute this is only a Factory which produces dumb and Mad Suicide bombers who will blow or do anything to PROTECT THEIR GOD" (Do creator needs protection from his Creation??) BUT thats what the Madrassas teach. TO PROTECT THEIR PROPHET & RELIGION AT ANY COST.
Posted by: Jimmy at September 9, 2006 9:07 AM
Robert-
I think I'm becoming a good student at the JihadWatch school. I'm getting it, though it takes time to understand the issue in depth. It's not about learning by rote-that's for sure.
Posted by: Frank at September 9, 2006 9:16 AM
Here is some related info:
If you go here, and read the lead article, then you, our American friends and allies, may have some understanding of what we Brits are up against.
I know Blair (Bliar, as we call him) has a good press in America, but it is his government that is doing all this.
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
Also, this is the first paragraph of a letter on the British National Party's web page (that's those fascist - Nazi even - islamophobic racist pigs and monkeys, as described by our politicos and MSM) today:
""What freedom of speech?
I'm all for freedom of speech & equal rights but it seems like we are the only people going along with this ruling, I cannot hold up a placard voicing British rights/beliefs without being branded a racist I would probably be arrested for doing so anyway, yet I have to accept what seems like nearly every weekend a rally voicing Muslims beliefs & how bad the west is treating them. I live near Regents park & was shocked to see the police just stand by when the demonstrators of the cartoons brandished their placards with the most violent & racist remarks written on them. When a passer-by protested to these he was forcibly removed by the police & was told either shut up & drive away or be arrested! Does freedom of speech only work one way? ""
This is Bliars government in action, and perfectly illustrates what we Brits are up against. Don't criticise us too much - we're doing our best within the law - but regarding the law - there's a "Fix" been put in to tie our hands behind our backs.
There's some promising news from Holland though - is this a good sign, or is it a good sign (taken from Up Pompeii, comments on the "Only 1 in 5 Britons would feel comfortable eith a Moslem neighbour" article. (Scroll down a little on the Up Pompeii page):
""A bit of good news from the Dutch front. I have just been reading the Dutch teletext and a school in Utrecht has suspended muslim woman teacher for refusing to shake hand with male teacher. Did you see that they used the M word. It seems that before the Holidays she had no trouble doing it, but now she refuses to do it. My God what a difference six weeks holiday makes. She has most likely been on holiday in Saudi and her brain has stopped working. She has to go before a commision for equal treatment. I don't know what he English equivalent is but I think you get my drift. I'll keep you informed of developements.The head said that he doesn't want any of his teachers taking a political or religious stand at school as it sets a bad example for the students. First bit of common sense I have read in years.""
5:21 PM, September 08, 2006
We ARE going to overhaul this problem. Polling news from Denmark too, regarding Islam, is also showing a change in attitude in the general population.
Unfortunately, it's the governments, not so much the populations, that are the problem. And the MSM, of course.
Take care, it's rough out there.
at September 9, 2006 9:53 AM
Jimmy: I cant beleive that these students graduate without understanding one word from the Koran.
Surely there are Urdu translations of the Koran. How can they make good jihadis and suicide bombers without understanding the words of their god?
Posted by: george_rem at September 9, 2006 10:01 AM
Whoa...those poor brainwashed kids. I would be tired to if I had to chant useless garbage all day long. Maulana Qadri needs to be thrown away for all the children he has abused. He is one very disgusting individual.
Posted by: BIRDDDOG at September 9, 2006 11:00 AM
Madrassas.... my favorite places for a filming of Girls Gone Wild.
I wonder: how many of these Hooper Youth 'schools' are in operation in the US? Sieg hell!
Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at September 9, 2006 11:04 AM
Mr. Spencer, your point is exceptionally well taken. What should we expect from a religion that teaches FIGHT UNTIL THERE IS NO GOD BUT OUR GOD. Add to this daily brainwashing sessions of memorization the Koran in all its particulars and add annual rituals of training from childhood young boys to slit the throat of helpless large living breathing animals, and you shape the behavior of a psychopath. It is not the Manchurian candidate. It is the Moslem candidate. P.S. My comments are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Jihad Watch. If CAIR is reading this, CAIR kindly direct your criticism of my negative portrayal of Islam to me alone.
Posted by: David England at September 9, 2006 11:08 AM
Simply -- they are rote memory vessels awaiting to be filled (with a proper Islamic interpretation) at a later date. It will be a soul stirring epiphany when at last the meaning unites with the word of Allah -- completed vessels content with Shariah and Jihad in its various forms.
Posted by: TheEvidentSmoke at September 9, 2006 11:12 AM
INSANITY.
I mean, deep-set insanity.
The cacophany of the insane din and chatter, in no sort of snych whatsoever, pounding at your ears and your brain ALL DAY LONG, year in, year out...
No wonder they are just downright effen insane when they finally 'finish' and come out of that place.
And, too, how the F*CK can any country expect to exist, let alone compete, in this world when ALL their children learn is how to 'pray'?? I've often wondered just why it is that there are so many young men available to demonstrate, riot, burn effigies, and rampage daily in Islamic countries, and now I know. They are taught exactly NOTHING, no skills whatsoever, to be able to support not only themselves, but a family as well.
Talk about stuck in the dark ages.
And that is exactly where they will remain.
I swear, I count down the years until the oil in the middle east dries up and all these countries have exactly NOTHING to sustain themselves and their populations. Oh, yes, when that day comes I will giggle with glee.
*spit*
Posted by: JenBee at September 9, 2006 11:12 AM
JDAM.... when you CAIR enough to send the very best.
- US Air Force
Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at September 9, 2006 11:13 AM
RE: "It is not required to understand."
This is the most critical reason the majority of Pakistani people are not becoming educated and civilized in the 21 century.
Blind faith and obedience required from all students in madrassas leads to an incredible dumbing down of Pakistanis in Pakistan.
Contolling the massses with the Koran through memorization and rote is no way to advance a society. The cult like mindset of Pakistani Muslim educators must be stopped if S.E. Asia ever hopes to become a civilized society.
The west has every reason to be concerned about the proliferation of madrasses in S.E. Asia.
Madrasses promote hatred for the west and glorify the Muslim terrorist. If the west truly wants to win the war on terrorism, it must realize that the most effective way to end the long siege of terrorism is not just by fighting jihadis in the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan. Rather, the west has to do much more in Pakistan's clasroom to educate the average Pakistani about the ways of the world, fostering integration into a globalized society.
By helping the average Pakistani to become free from the dysfunctional tyranny of Islam, the west gains more recruits to stop the flow of support for violent jihad.
Posted by: Johnathan at September 9, 2006 11:41 AM
Robert:
Great commentary.
If only the drive by media would understand the mindset of islam, what it actually says and requires - we would be much further ahead.
Also thanks for your review of Fallaci's latest book.
This site has to be in the very eye of the storm, where it is incongruesquely quiet.
Ibrahim H,: we're on to you.
at September 9, 2006 11:44 AM
If we had a CIA that operated effectively overseas in its clandestine endeavors, these madrassas would be high on the target list. Case officers and their specops partners should be infiltrating these places at night and burning them down, along with the instructors and imams. If possible, the kids should be spirited off to anywhere but a Muslim country (or Neverland for that matter) in order to save them from a life cursed by Islam. What passes for child abuse in the majority of the world is 'education' for these people. I feel sorry for these kids - especially since we'll have to kill them when they become adults.
Posted by: MadrassasippiBurnin at September 9, 2006 11:47 AM
Muslims believe that they must be able to recite that koran in arabic. Too bad that vast majority of muslims don't speak it. They recite it over and over again not knowing what they are saying or reading.
Phximan: if it is true that they have little idea of what the Koran actually says, then what is the source of their fanaticism? Koran is Muslims' ideological basis for terror. How can Pakistanis engage in, say, suicide bombings without having read and understood the Koran?!
Maybe Robert or Hugh can explain?
Posted by: george_rem at September 9, 2006 12:12 PM
'I swear, I count down the years until the oil in the middle east dries up and all these countries have exactly NOTHING to sustain themselves and their populations.'~ JenBee
Jen, you just left me wondering: could that be part of a hidden reason for the islamic movement to create a world-wide Caliphate? That they know the power of their (mostly 'secular') governments will fail with the oil, and they are now trying to ramp things up in order to maintain that power afterwards?
I'm a bit sleepy just now, hope that made sense.
Posted by: Gary at September 9, 2006 12:15 PM
"Pakistan's madrassas teach only one subject – the Koran. At this typical urban madrassa, the Jamia Anwaria, in a lower-middle-class suburb of northern Lahore, the pupils are devoting themselves to a single, all-enveloping task – namely committing to memory the more than 6,000 verses of Islam's holy book."
"All of them. By heart. During that period all other subjects and ambitions – maths, science, history and humanities – must be put on hold."
Now we know why all of the tecnical support and customer service centres are in India and not Pakistan.
I can just imagine the converstaion:
"Hello, I have a problem with my computer"
"Infidel, Mohammed did not have a computer therefore they are un-Islamic you Kuffar"
Posted by: johnb at September 9, 2006 12:17 PM
I read where in 2002/3 there were over 2000 complaints of sexual abuse at Pakistani Madrasses. Only 200 had been investigated. No arrests were made.
at September 9, 2006 12:26 PM
Reading this thread brings up more questions than comments. There are some good points made -
Jimmy writes - Do not think this Is a school or institute this is only a Factory which produces dumb and Mad Suicide bombers who will blow or do anything to PROTECT THEIR GOD" (Do creator needs protection from his Creation??) BUT thats what the Madrassas teach. TO PROTECT THEIR PROPHET & RELIGION AT ANY COST.
"Protecting their prophet" seems, to me, to be a secondary, unlinked part of the Koran. I don't recall getting any impression of having to "protect the prophet" in any Koranic verse of in the 7th century rantings of the jihadists. Protecting Islam, yes, but protecting the prophet seems a stretch. Unless we lump the cartoons in with "protecting" - but I see that more of an insult to Islam and the prophet more than a protect the prophet deal.
However, if "protecting the prophet (piss be upon him)" is a theocratic part of the Islamic guidlines, then Jimmy nailed it - why does a creator need protection from his creation?
And I think another question was properly raised - Do madrasses exist in the US? Morever, would we know? They aren't hidden in Pakistan or other pro-Islamic countries, but it would seem reasonable to hide them here. But "reasonable" never has been part of the jihadist menu. Perhaps Robert could do a post on the influence of madrasses here in the US, if there are any.
I'm sure our friend Hooper-boy would be willing to give us all sorts of data on that. As soon as infidel pigs fly.
Posted by: tblubrd
at September 9, 2006 12:52 PM
WHO CARES what they learn if anything..??!! AS LONG as they DON'T come over here.. stay AWAY from Europe and the USA and I don't give a profit's beard's ass what they do!! And NO foreign aid next earthquake/tsunami.
God is doing the dirty work and we shouldn't interfere :-)
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 9, 2006 1:14 PM
The truth about the jihad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGoaG_J7lts
at September 9, 2006 1:14 PM
"For us the family is the key, it is sacred."
And then:
"Shahid, who has lived at the madrassa since the age of three, has been spared a life on the street. The maulana says that Shahid was 'given' to the madrassa after his father remarried and his new wife refused to accept the boy"
Just love the disconnect here!
Poor little mite.
Posted by: Silvester at September 9, 2006 1:48 PM
"Idle chatter or fooling about of any kind is not tolerated. Outside class they are permitted to play cricket (the maulana has been known to umpire) or other games. However, by the standards of many rural madrassas this is considered liberal, and even dangerous, practice.
You bet this is dangerous, playing games is verboten by Mein Islam (Quran). Playing an Infidel Dog game is worse.
From george_rem: "Surely there are Urdu translations of the Koran. How can they make good jihadis and suicide bombers without understanding the words of their god?
Translations of Mein Islam into other languages are classified as interpretations. Here is a discalimer from the USC Islam web page
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
"Note that any translation of the Qur'an immediately ceases to be the literal word of Allah, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in its original Arabic form. In fact, each of the translations on this site is actually an interpretation which has been translated."
An "interpretation which has been translated," how's that for Islamic double talk.
The more I understand Islam the more I am convinced of its falsehood.
Robert's new book should be translated into Arabic with this disclaimer:
"Note that this translation of "The Truth About Mohammed" ceases to be the literal word of Robert Spencer, and hence cannot be equated with the "The Truth About Mohammed" its original English form. In fact, the translation is actually a rendering of a transcription which has been translated."
Posted by: Pelayo at September 9, 2006 2:06 PM
So, Pelayo the multitude of non-Arabic speaking suicide bombers killed themselves in the name of god whose words they never understood, only on the say-so of some madrassah boss?!
That's pretty amazing.
Posted by: george_rem at September 9, 2006 2:18 PM
From now on I think I'll refer to the Quran as Mein Glauben (My Idea). If it's OK with Marisol et al.
at September 9, 2006 2:28 PM
"This doesn't make sense. If the students do not understand the Koran, what exactly are they learning? How can they be indoctrinated if they do not understand the language?"
They learn obedience and not to ask questions. Eventually, when they do understand they will know instinctively not to question the scripture.
Actually, this makes perfect sense. The nonsense that one finds in the Quran could hardly be accepted without a systematic brainwash at childhood.
at September 9, 2006 2:37 PM
Assalamau Laikum,
The Koran in Madrassas is read in Urdu for the most part. This is to teach the childrens how to read (mostly) and write (a little) as they grow up.
Most Madrassas are free and you often see childrens in the same family ...some go to school and others go to Madrassas. They are bhais...but they could be from different families.
What you peoples miss here is that these childrens are set for life in the way they think and act ...along Koranic rules.
Please note though that very few move onto learning in Arabic or move onto learing more about the true meanings or differences in ideology. Mostly they see that the west is richer ...is kafur...and therefore they are being "shagged" somehow.
Most peoples it has to be said are too busy for "jihad"...mostly it is trying to scrape a life together.
This is the realistic picture...you peoples need not fear the amount of peoples going to Madrassas ...only that some are troubled and need to see the golden age of Islam to return.
Posted by: Naseem at September 9, 2006 3:18 PM
I think the kids at the madrassas would be better off learning the Hokey Pokey...
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/hokey.htm
Posted by: Frank at September 9, 2006 3:19 PM
Did anyone else notice this delicious contradiction?
"In our madrassas, we teach the Koranic jihad," [the madrassa's leader, Maulana Ajmal Qadri said]. "This refuses to admit the supremacy of anyone, or any power, but Allah. We believe that the Muslim way is the supreme way..."
Can anyone see the Muslim way out of this contradiction? It's simple really. Too simple; and that's the problem.
Posted by: remote_control at September 9, 2006 3:34 PM
This NYT article GLOWS with happiness at the increase in muslim immigration.
September 10, 2006
More Muslims Arrive in U.S., After 9/11 Dip
By ANDREA ELLIOTT
America’s newest Muslims arrive in the afternoon crunch at John F. Kennedy International Airport. Their planes land from Dubai, Casablanca and Karachi. They stand in line, clasping documents. They emerge, sometimes hours later, steering their carts toward a flock of relatives, a stream of cabs, a new life.
This was the path for Nur Fatima, a Pakistani woman who moved to Brooklyn six months ago and promptly shed her hijab. Through the same doors walked Nora Elhainy, a Moroccan who sells electronics in Queens, and Ahmed Youssef, an Egyptian who settled in Jersey City, where he gives the call to prayer at a palatial mosque.
“I got freedom in this country,” said Ms. Fatima, 25. “Freedom of everything. Freedom of thought.”
The events of Sept. 11 transformed life for Muslims in the United States, and the flow of immigrants from countries like Egypt, Pakistan and Morocco thinned dramatically.
But five years later, as the United States wrestles with questions of terrorism, civil liberties and immigration control, Muslims appear to be moving here again in surprising numbers, according to statistics compiled by the Department of Homeland Security and the Census Bureau.
Immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia are planting new roots in states from Virginia to Texas to California.
In 2005, more people from Muslim countries became legal permanent United States residents — nearly 96,000 — than in any year in the previous two decades. More than 40,000 of them were admitted last year, the highest annual number since the terrorist attacks, according to data on 22 countries provided by the Department of Homeland Security.
Many have made the journey unbowed by tales of immigrant hardship, and despite their own opposition to American policy in the Middle East. They come seeking the same promise that has drawn foreigners to the United States for many decades, according to a range of experts and immigrants: economic opportunity and political freedom.
Those lures, both powerful and familiar, have been enough to conquer fears that America is an inhospitable place for Muslims.
“America has always been the promised land for Muslims and non-Muslims,” said Behzad Yaghmaian, an Iranian exile and author of “Embracing the Infidel: Stories of Muslim Migrants on the Journey West.” “Despite Muslims’ opposition to America’s foreign policy, they still come here because the United States offers what they’re missing at home.”
For Ms. Fatima, it was the freedom to dress as she chose and work as a security guard. For Mr. Youssef, it was the chance to earn a master’s degree.
He came in spite of the deep misgivings that he and many other Egyptians have about the war in Iraq and the Bush administration. In America, he said, one needs to distinguish between the government and the people.
“Who am I dealing with, Bush or the American public?” he said. “Am I dealing with my future in Egypt or my future here?”
Muslims have been settling in the United States in significant numbers since the mid-1960’s, after immigration quotas that favored Eastern Europeans were lifted. Spacious mosques opened in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York as a new, highly educated Muslim population took hold.
Over the next three decades, the story of Muslim migration to the United States was marked by growth and prosperity. A larger percentage of immigrants from Muslim countries have graduate degrees than other American residents, and their average salary is about 20 percent higher, according to Census Bureau data.
But Sept. 11 altered the course of Muslim life in America. Mosques were vandalized. Hate crimes rose. Deportation proceedings were begun against thousands of men, and others were arrested in an array of terrorism cases.
Some Muslims changed their names to avoid job discrimination, making Mohammed “Moe,” and Osama “Sam.” Scores of families left for Canada or returned to their native countries.
Yet this period also produced something strikingly positive, in the eyes of many Muslims: they began to mobilize politically and socially. Across the country, grass-roots organizations expanded to educate Muslims on civil rights, register them to vote and lobby against new federal policies such as the Patriot Act.
“There was the option of becoming introverted or extroverted,” said Agha Saeed, national chairman of the American Muslim Task Force on Civil Rights and Elections, an umbrella organization in Newark, Calif., created in 2003. “We became extroverted.”
In some ways, new Muslim immigrants may be better off in the post-9/11 America they encounter today, say Muslim leaders and academics: Islamic centers are more organized, and resources like English instruction and free legal assistance are more accessible.
But outside these newly organized mosques, life remains strained for many Muslims.
To avoid taunts, women are often warned not to wear head scarves in public, as was Rubab Razvi, 21, a Pakistani who arrived in Brooklyn nine months ago. (She ignored the advice, even though people stare at her on the bus, she said.) Muslims continue to endure long waits at airports, where they are often tagged for questioning because of their names or dress.
To some longtime immigrants, the life embraced by newcomers will never compare to the peaceful era that came before.
“They haven’t seen the America pre-9/11,” said Khwaja Mizan Hassan, 42, who left Bangladesh 30 years ago. He rose to become the president of Jamaica Muslim Center, a mosque in Queens, and has a comfortable job with the New York City Department of Probation.
But after Sept. 11, he was stopped at Kennedy Airport because his name matched another on a watch list.
A Drop, Then a Surge
Up to six million Muslims live in the United States, by some estimates. While the Census Bureau and the Department of Homeland Security do not track religion, both provide statistics on immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries. It is presumed that many of these immigrants are Muslim, but people of other faiths, such as Iraqi Chaldeans and Egyptian Copts, have also come in appreciable numbers.
Immigration from these regions slowed considerably after Sept. 11. Fewer people were issued green cards and nonimmigrant visas. By 2003, the number of immigrants arriving from 22 Muslim countries had declined by more than a third. For students, tourists and others from these countries who were designated as nonimmigrants, the drop was even more dramatic, with total visits down by nearly half.
The falloff affected immigrants from across the post-9/11 world as America tightened its borders, but it was most pronounced among those moving here from Pakistan, Morocco, Iran and other Muslim nations.
Several factors might explain the drop: more visa applications were rejected due to heightened security procedures, said officials at the State Department and Department of Homeland Security; and fewer people applied for visas.
But starting in 2004, the numbers rebounded. The tally of people coming to live in the United States from Bangladesh, Turkey, Algeria and other Muslim countries rose by 20 percent, according to an analysis of Census Bureau data.
The uptick was also notable among foreigners with nonimmigrant visas. More than 55,000 Indonesians, for instance, were issued those visas last year, compared with roughly 36,000 in 2002.
The rise does not reflect relaxed security measures, but a higher number of visa applications and greater efficiency in processing them, said Chris Bentley, a spokesman for United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, part of Homeland Security.
Like other immigrants, Muslims find their way to the United States in myriad ways: they come as refugees, or as students and tourists who sometimes overstay their welcome. Others arrive with immigrant visas secured by relatives here. A lucky few win the green-card lottery.
Ahmed Youssef, 29, never thought he would be among the winners. But in 2003, Mr. Youssef, who taught Arabic in Egypt, was one of 50,000 people randomly chosen from 9.5 million applicants around the world.
As he prepared to leave Benha, a city north of Cairo, some friends asked him how he could move to a country that is “killing people in Iraq and Afghanistan,” he recalled. But others who had been to the United States encouraged him to go.
It was the same for Nora Elhainy, another lottery winner, who left Casablanca in 2004 to join her husband in Queens. “They think I am lucky because I am here,” she said of her Moroccan friends.
When Mr. Youssef arrived in May 2005, he found work in Manhattan loading hot dog carts from sunrise to sundown. He shared an apartment in Washington Heights with other Egyptians, but for the first month, he never saw his neighborhood in daylight.
“I joked to my roommates, ‘When am I going to see America?’ ” said Mr. Youssef, a slight man with thinning black hair and an easy smile.
Only three months later, when he began selling hot dogs on Seventh Avenue, did Mr. Youssef discover his new country.
He missed hearing the call to prayer, and thought nothing of unrolling his prayer rug beside his cart until other vendors warned him against it. He could be mistaken for an extremist, they told him.
Eventually, Mr. Youssef found a job as the secretary of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. He plans to apply to a master’s program at Columbia University, specializing in Arabic.
For now, he lives in a spare room above the mosque. Near his bed, he keeps a daily log of his prayers. If he makes them on time, he writes “Correct” in Arabic.
“I am much better off here than selling hot dogs,” he said.
Awash in American Flags
Nur Fatima landed in Midwood, Brooklyn, at a propitious time. Had she come three years earlier, she would have seen a neighborhood in crisis.
Hundreds of Pakistani immigrants disappeared after being asked to register with the government. Thirty shops closed along a stretch of Coney Island Avenue known as Little Pakistan. The number of new Urdu-speaking students at the local elementary school, Public School 217, dropped by half in the 2002-3 school year, according to the New York City Department of Education.
But then Little Pakistan got organized. A local businessman, Moe Razvi, converted a former antique store into a community center offering legal advice, computer classes and English instruction. Local Muslim leaders began meeting with federal agents to soothe relations.
The annual Pakistan Independence Day parade is now awash in American flags.
It is a transformation seen in Muslim immigrant communities around the nation.
“They have to prove that they are living here as Muslim Americans rather than living as Pakistanis and Egyptians and other nationalities,” said Zahid H. Bukhari, the director of the American Muslim Studies Program at Georgetown University.
Ms. Fatima arrived in Brooklyn from Pakistan in March after her father, who has lived here for six years, successfully petitioned for a green card on her behalf. Her goal was to become an interpreter and eventually practice law. She began by taking English classes at Mr. Razvi’s center, the Council of Peoples Organization.
She has heard stories of the neighborhood’s former plight but sees a different picture.
“This is a land of opportunity,” Ms. Fatima said. “There is equality for everyone.”
Five days after she came to Brooklyn, Ms. Fatima removed her head scarf, which she had been wearing since she was 10.
She began to change her thinking, she said: She liked living in a country where people respected the privacy of others and did not interfere with their religious or social choices.
“I came to the United States because I want to improve myself,” she said. “This is a second birth for me.”
---
Immigration needs to STOP. Especially from muslim countries. Why let in MORE of the ones who want to destroy the country.
at September 9, 2006 3:37 PM
What they learn in school.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/16.htm
Posted by: Borg at September 9, 2006 3:39 PM
And this from littlegreenfootballs-
---
Saudis Sending 15,000 Students to US to "Stem Unrest"
The Saudi government has approved its largest scholarship program in history.
They’re planning to send 15,000 young students, indoctrinated to despise infidels by the Wahhabi educational system, to the United States: Huge Hike in Number of Scholarships. (Hat tip: Sabra.)
KING Abdullah, who is also the chairman of the Higher Education Council, has approved a program to allocate 15,000 scholarships for study in the US and 3,000 in some Asian countries.
Announcing this here Monday, Minister of Higher Education Dr Khalid Al-Anqari said this is the largest scholarship program by the government so far.
The program will include doctorate, master’s, fellowship and bachelor degrees, according to the Saudi Press Agency (SPA) report.
US college administrators are overjoyed at this windfall: U.S. Schools Compete for Saudi Students.
MANHATTAN, Kan. — Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah.
The program will quintuple the number of Saudi students and scholars here by the academic year’s end. And big, public universities from Florida to the Kansas plains are in a fierce competition for their tuition dollars.
The kingdom’s royal family — which is paying full scholarships for most of the 15,000 students — says the program will help stem unrest at home by schooling the country’s brightest in the American tradition. The U.S. State Department sees the exchange as a way to build ties with future Saudi leaders and young scholars at a time of unsteady relations with the Muslim world.
Administrators at Kansas State University, an agricultural school surrounded by miles of prairie grass, say the scholarships are a bonanza for public education. “The Saudi scholarship program has definitely heightened our interest in that part of the world,” said Kenneth Holland, associate provost for international programs. “Not only are the students fully funded, but they’re also paying out-of-state tuition.”
Kansas State has boosted efforts to court Saudi officials in the last year, flying administrators and department heads to the Saudi embassy in Washington. It’s paid off: last month about 150 Saudi students started classes there, each funded to the tune of about $31,000.
Saudi Embassy spokesman Nail Al-Jubeir said 90 percent of the 10,229 Saudi students the U.S. State Department has registered for the fall semester will also get such scholarships.
By January, U.S. government officials say the program will expand to 15,000 students, which means Saudi Arabia will send more foreign students to the U.S. than Mexico or Turkey. As funding for the scholarship program expands, those numbers are likely to grow.
“This is a critically important bilateral relationship,” said Tom Farrell, a deputy assistant secretary for academic programs at the State Department. “It’s an opportunity to increase understanding of Saudi Arabia for the United States and of the United States for Saudi Arabia.”
College administrators say common misperceptions about the oil-rich nation make it crucial to create a tolerant environment for Arab and Muslim students, who have been singled out for scrutiny since the Sept. 11 attacks five years ago.
So, as Kansas State students enjoy a string of home football games this month, they also are preparing for the campus’ first celebration of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month.
“We really want to make this special. We’re going to truck in halal food from Kansas City,” Holland said. “The Saudi government is trying to place the students in a variety of institutions across the country, but where you get the competitive advantage is how you treat the students when they get here.”
---
Great, just what we need. Selling out.
at September 9, 2006 3:47 PM
Naseem, we do not "fear" islam or muslims, only pity them that they are so easily deluded by the lies of the koran and unable to accept the truth of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross because He loves them as much as he does us.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 9, 2006 3:53 PM
"...none of the children can understand a single word of the sacred book they are learning."
I wonder if the Mohammedan children in this country understand a single word in the sacred book they are learning? There are plenty of Submission (islamic) schools here, and one must ask what is being drilled into those little skulls. Is it the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Gettysburg Address? I sincerely doubt it.
The Islamic Schools' League of America has a lofty goal for the young.
Quoting from the main page:
"The Islamic Schools' League of America envisions and works towards the day when Islamic schools will be the preferred centers for learning and leadership that nurture and encourage America's youth to develop their innate creativity and inquisitive nature in the pursuance of academic excellence while anchoring their hearts and souls in a moral framework of a God-centered life."
Quoting from the curriculum page:
"The second approach [for curriculum writers] is to attempt to rewrite the curriculum of every subject so that Islamic knowledge/thinking is integrated into every subject."
The "Entire Religion Approach":
"Proponents of this approach argue that Islamic studies should be an integral part of every subject, not related to just one Islamic studies class. Instead of studying the seerah of the Prophet in the religion class, for example, this approach would have it taught as an integral part of the history class. And the history class would not focus on American/Canadian history as it does in the secular books, but would focus on world history with an emphasis on the history of Muslims."
While it is important to know what is going on in Pakistan, it is also vitally important to realize that Mohammedan schools in our very backyard might one day easily become hotbeds for jihadist rhetoric. The danger is closer than you may think.
Islamic School Addresses in North America
Posted by: Kreuzueber Halbmond at September 9, 2006 3:53 PM
Borg, does it say how many Christian students the Saudis are taking into Saudi Arabia in this one sided "exchange"? If islam is "superior", as teh koran teaches, why are muslims always coming to Western universities and colleges for their educations? Remember when a snake bites there is an "exchange" of venom from the snake to its victim also.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 9, 2006 4:00 PM
Naseem, first it was you wild, slutty Paki womens with your bikinis and greeting infidels with assyougottalickem, and now this!
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 9, 2006 4:05 PM
http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002917.html
Bosnia: Former Muslim President Was Paid By Al Qaeda
When Alija Izetbegovic (pictured) died and was buried on the 22nd October 2003, only hours before the funeral the United Nations war crimes tribunal in the Hague had confirmed that he had been under investigation.
Izetbegovic had governed Bosnia-Hercegovina as President from 1990 onwards, and had seen the start of the civil war begin under his rule in 1992. He signed the Clinton-brokered Dayton Agreement in 1995 which effectively ended the conflict. He continued as vice president until 2000. Though he had a knack of persuading Western leaders that he was a benign character, the reality seems far removed from the image of a benevolent Muslim "grandfather".
Today, AKI reports that a Sarajevo-based weekly newspaper, Slobodna Bosna (Free Bosnia) has stated that Izetbegovic received money from the Saudi businessman Yassin al-Khadi (Yassin al Qadi). On October 12, 2001, Yassin al-Kadi was listed by the US government as a specially designated global terrorist for his support of al-Qaeda.
Al-Kadi's assets in Bosnia-Hercegovina were frozen in October 2001, at the request of the nation's Banking Agency. He had shares in the Vakufska Bank but these too were frozen, on the advice of the US.
In 1996, the report from Slobodna Bosna alleges, Izetbegovic received $195,000. The information on this transaction came from a British bank while al-Kadi's charity Mufavak was being investigated. In 2002 this charity was banned, but began operating again in Bosnia under the name "Blessed Relief". Mufavak had gathered $15 to 20 million from various sources, and at least $3 million had gone to Al Qaeda.
But the claims of Al Qaeda and Islamist involvement on the part of Izetbegovic go much deeper. In 1992, he invited in the Mujahideen from Saudi Arabia, who went on a spree of murder and decapitation. The government is now trying to revoke the citizenships of 1,500 of these, as was reported by AKI this week.
In 1970, Izetbegovic wrote "The Islamic Declaration: A Program for the Islamization of Muslims and the Muslim Peoples", which was disseminated clandestinely amongst Muslims, but was not officially published until 1990 when the communist system which had been led by Tito collapsed.
This document has been used by his opponents to validate their claims that he was at heart an Islamist. The invitation of the Mujahideen (shown below, marching through Zenica) to add jihadism to the volatile ethnic situation escalated the strong feelings in the region. According to Pogledi: "The mujahedin were "incorporated and subordinated" within the structure of the 7th Muslim Brigade when it was formed on November 19, 1992 . On August 13, 1993, the mujahedeen were organized in the "El Mujahed" unit. The Bosnian Muslim military command put this unit in the 3rd Corps area of operations and subordinated it to the command of that Corps."
But the claims of Al Qaeda involvement go directly to Izetbegovic's door. Terrorism expert Evan Kohlmann wrote a book, Al Qaeda in Europe: The Afghan-Bosnian Network, in which he details the involvement of Saudi Mujahideen in Bosnia and the rise of Al Qaeda.
Robert Spencer in JihadWatch quotes from this book:
Using the Bosnian war as their cover, Afghan-trained Islamic militants loyal to Osama bin Laden convened in the Balkans in 1992 to establish a European domestic terrorist infrastructure in order to plot their violent strikes against the United States. As the West and the United Nations looked on with disapproval, the fanatic foreign 'mujahideen', or holy warriors, wreaked havoc across southern Europe, taking particular aim at UN peacekeepers and even openly fighting with Bosnian Muslims at times. Middle Eastern religious and charitable organizations, largely based in and funded from the Arabian Gulf, were responsible for bankrolling this effort, and providing travel documentation for would-be mujahideen recruits.... many of the cell members - responsible for some of the most notorious terrorist attacks of the past decade - spent their formative years waging jihad in the unlikely Muslim land of Bosnia."
Slobodan Milosevic is widely regarded as a Serbian monster, but while he was on trial in the Hague, a British journalist Eve-Ann Prentice was giving evidence. She told the court in February that she had been scheduled to meet Alija Izetbegovic in November 1994. She said that while she and a journalist from Der Spiegel waited in a foyer for their interviews with the Bosnian leader, they saw Osama bin Laden being escorted into Izetbegovic's office. Judge Robinson cut short her testimony and declared it "irrelevant".
A damning critique of Izetbegovic and his Al Qaeda connections, written from a Serbian perspective, can be found in Serbianna, and more can be found in an article from the Toronto-based Centre for Peace in the Balkans. A highly critical biography of Izetbegovic, by Vojin Joksimovich, can be found HERE.
Posted by: Borg at September 9, 2006 4:14 PM
Horror of Horrors! Here Mariyah Moten is with her hated rival Miss India (hot chick)!!! Doesn't she know that she should be slitting her throat as an enemy of Pakiland and islam instead of smiling and embracing her???
http://www.grapex.net/gallery/v/pakistani/Mariyah+Moten/Mariyah+Moten++new+bikini.jpg.html
at September 9, 2006 4:15 PM
Bohemond_1069-
I don't think they care if students from the west go to school there. The only thing they would learn would be the koran so that would fit right in with their goals. The students being sent here are Operation Da'wa. Looking to convert and maybe to bring a few extra females home.
It makes it easier to stay in country afterwards, too. All the easier to start a sleeper cell.
at September 9, 2006 4:17 PM
he Muslim way is the supreme way, that the Islamic principle is best and that what the rest of the world does is not up to the mark.'
well this paki is nothing but a big fat lying muslim, why do all those paki want to leave their wonderful pakistan? why they leave it fast enough.
well if the west is so wrong, send the paki packing back home. naseesms relatives should be the first ones to go back to pakistan. right now lol
at September 9, 2006 4:24 PM
Borg, I realize that. I was trying to be sarcastic. Saudi does not usually allow Christians or any other religions into their country, and almost never into Mecca and Medina. Just as well, wouldn't want any Christians there if and when the nukes start dropping.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 9, 2006 4:24 PM
hey Naseems, see what the paki schools are producing!
A prize winning bikini contest model who claimed she was the Pakistani representative has sparked outrage in the predominantly muslim country.
Stunning Mariyah Moten, 22, won the 'Best in Media' title - for being the most photographed and interviewed contestant - at the pageant in the Chinese resort of Beihai.
and you said pakistanis only want burkas! look at this lady, she is brave in her bikini! see what your country is hiding under those butt ugly burkas!
next time Naseems you need to promote grandma and moms over fifty in bikinis! lol
at September 9, 2006 4:34 PM
By helping the average Pakistani to become free from the dysfunctional tyranny of Islam, the west gains more recruits to stop the flow of support for violent jihad.
Posted by: Johnathan at September 9, 2006 11:41 AM
Just make sure the 'average Pakistani', doe snot slit your infedel throat.
Posted by: Alert at September 9, 2006 4:34 PM
Ah, those wild and slutty Paki womens! Reminds me of Steve Martin and those "wild and crazy guys"! Naseem, maybe if you wore a bikini once in a while instead of a burkah you could even find a new hubby.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 9, 2006 4:38 PM
WHO CARES what they learn if anything..??!! AS LONG as they DON'T come over here..
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 9, 2006 01:14 PM
Next thing you know, they come to a mosque near you, on R-1 religious visa. Thank you.
Posted by: Alert at September 9, 2006 4:40 PM
With a $5,000 US cash money top prize, news of this pageant will make a lot of Paki womens think about shedding their burkahs.
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?153100
"The Bikini winner was crowned "Queen Pearl" and received USD 5,000 in prize money; second and third place earned the title "Miss Pearl," and received USD 3,000 and USD 2,000 respectively, according to the pageant's organizing committee."
Naseem, looks like your granddaughters will be Coke-drinking, bikini-wearing agnostics. I hope you live to see it happen old girl.
at September 9, 2006 4:55 PM
There should be no surprise that Islamic madrassas emphasize the memorization of the Qur'an when you consider that Islam also teaches that Muhammad was the Perfect Man for all mankind to emulate and...Muhammad was illiterate!
Posted by: Xero G at September 9, 2006 5:23 PM
A few thoughts:
from above: (the) teacher, explains that none of the children can understand a single word of the sacred book they are learning.
and
And what if one of these younger children were curious enough to ask about the meaning of the words? 'If they ask, I tell them the meaning,' the teacher explains. 'But usually they don't ask. Sometimes, when they first arrive, they want translation, but over the passage of time they stop asking questions.
It is not required to understand.' It is this blind faith and obedience required from all students that marks out the madrassa.
...........
Ugh--even the most mediocre Western school is a beacon of enlightened reason in comparison.
............
from above: Everyone sits in identical fashion – 'because that is the way the Prophet sat,' the maulana explains proudly.
.............
Many people revere the works of Voltaire and Thomas Jefferson, without thinking that 18th century plumbing is the best suited to man's needs. This is so banal and literal minded. I wouldn't want to be stuck by dint of philosophy in *any* period, and I can think of few worse places and times to take as a model than 7th century Arabia.
.............
from above: The Deobandis, formed in the 19th century by a group of Islamic scholars who wanted to purify Islam from the corrupting influences of Hinduism, remain a powerful force in fundamentalist Islam.
............
It bothers me when non-Muslims refer to "the Prophet Mohammed" (rather than, say, "The Muslim Prophet Mohammed", or "Mohammed, considered a prophet by Muslims"). The above is much worse--"the corrupting influences of Hinduism"--how can the journalist use this so uncritically? I'm not saying they must be confrontational--merely that they should modify it as "considered by some to be corrupting" or some such--otherwise, it gives an unproven stamp to the idea that Hindu influence is "corrupting"..
................
tblubrd wrote:
"Protecting their prophet" seems, to me, to be a secondary, unlinked part of the Koran. I don't recall getting any impression of having to "protect the prophet" in any Koranic verse of in the 7th century rantings of the jihadists. Protecting Islam, yes, but protecting the prophet seems a stretch. Unless we lump the cartoons in with "protecting" - but I see that more of an insult to Islam and the prophet more than a protect the prophet deal.
.............
I'm no expert, but as I recall there is quite a bit in the Qu'ran about protecting "the prophet", This ranges from the physical down to the pettiest of perceived slights. At one point one of Mohammed's followers kills an old woman because she wrote mocking verse about "the prophet".
..................
Many people above have asked how hate could be spread by these schools if the students could not understand the text, but I believe the answer is in the same article:
And so begins a two-hour disquisition on the failings and corruptions of the West that are a familiar part of thousands of sermons delivered every Friday – the Muslim holy day – to the faithful masses across Pakistan.
............
Some of these "sermons" are so hateful that listeners emerge from the mosque whipped up and ready to do harm to any non-Muslim they encounter. This happened just recently to a Hindu man in India and a Christian in Egypt, attacked as Friday prayers let out.
Posted by: gravenimage at September 9, 2006 8:54 PM
Two comments:
First: Pakistan (though now more than ever protecting the Taliban and Osama via the autonomy granted Waziristan) is not an ally in the war on terrorism, but evidently Dubya and his cronies haven't got the memo /sarcasm/
Second: Sir Henry Morgan, I am fortunate (actually wise enough) to watch and depend on news sources other than that of my choir (of which I have none), as a consequence I know exactly what Britain and Europe are rolling over for Islam and why Europe will be Eurabia.. it is all about profits, exports (especially) trade, capital, market share, stock prices and of course availability to oil exports and favorable pricing from OPEC.. our dear capitalists will fellate anyone so long as it means profits, golden parachutes, perks and six or seven figure salaries.. after all they won't have to live with the damage done.
at September 9, 2006 9:10 PM
Comments are turned off and archived for this entry.
(Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Jihad Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.)