The problem, for you proponents of a "peaceful Islam," is that we understand the real--the true--Islam only too well.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at September 9, 2006 8:34 PM

I think I have a pretty good understanding.
After all, I got a crash course less than 5 years ago.
And several refreshers since. I'm a good student.

Posted by: Kim Hartveld at September 9, 2006 8:55 PM

"America is not Islamaphobic, it really just doesn't understand the religion at all"

That is changing as the vast majority of Americans understand that Islam is the only major religion on earth with a well developed theology that mandates violence against unbelievers. Even "liberals" are starting to see that fact re Islam. These guys don't get it as they continue to fart platitudes that Islam is a religion of peace. Meanwhile, folks see a Muslim shooting Jewish women in Seattle,or plowing down people in San Fransisco, or blowing-up trains in India, and watch the president of Iran deny the Holocaust and threaten to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and see black Africans being exterminated by Jihadists in Sudan, etc., etc.

We are well on the way to understanding the religion, just as Osama Bin Laden understands it when he told the world that "True Islam" mandates violence against Infidels. He's right.

Posted by: Frank at September 9, 2006 8:58 PM

Like many Americans, I was indifferent to Islam before 9/11 - I actually believed that Islam was a "religion of peace." After 9/11, like many Americans, I started asking questions about Islam, and how Islam could be used by someone as motivation/justification for such a heinous act. I started asking questions. I started reading. I started debating it with friends, which encouraged further research.

The more I learned about Islam, the worse it got. Besides the astonishing amount of violence perpetrated in the name of Islam, I learned how controlling and intolerant Islam is. I learned how Islam does not allow its adherents to exercise free will or freedom of conscience. I learned that Islam is a religion of compulsion. I learned the true depths of misogyny as taught by Islam. (I could go on, but I'd be preaching to the choir.)

When I was younger and read Revelations, I wondered how anybody could do some of the things described in Revelations. Then in the past couple of years, I've seen news reports coming out Islamic regions in the Middle East showing Muslims doing those things. I have come to the conclusion that Islam is the Church of the Devil prophesied of in the Bible.

I truly feel sorry for the many Muslims who have never had a chance to exercise freedom of conscience, and sincerely hope that someday they will have a real opportunity to make an informed choice with regard to their religious affiliation and which god they choose to worship.

Posted by: Bad_Attitude_Infidel at September 9, 2006 9:06 PM

Still, I think it is great that the term islam is even being used in a discussion about terrorism. Used to be, and still is in Europe, that such a connection is not being made.

That is great progress. It seems almost as if the ummah is in defence mode. That is good. We want the heat, heat from such things as 9/11, or even just an anniversary of 9/11, to remain on them. Let them continue to flail their hands in their convoluted defence that islam is not terror. Used to be that this topic wasn't even up for discussion. Now it is.

I have noticed that it seems with this battle for survival we are in, that what is bad, yes, gets worse. Which makes us pessimistic. But what is good, seems to be getting better.

That means that the political dhimmis are becoming more craven. But the MSM is covering the muslim angle a lot more and the population, consequentely, whether the media likes it or not, is being educated, or at least, exposed to this muslim/terror connection for the first time. That is a big improvement.

Before, muslims didn't face allegations that they are a problem for society. Ten years ago who talked of such things openly? Nobody. Now those allegations are surfacing, they are being put on the front pages of major newspapers and on the CNN website. And muslims are forced to deny it.

All the while this is happening, their jihadist brothers are plotting the next train or airliner massacre, while their Iranian and Pakistani brothers are plotting a nuclear strike.

This is good. More bad press for them, more eyes see the light, more and more the islamic defence becomes convoluted. And more and more the ummah in the west get impatient with da'wa, tired of Taqiyya, and start talking in plain, militant tongues. Muslim impatience with da'wa and anger with us, and subsequent lust for jihad, fuel the education of the naive westerner more than any of us can ever do by spreading the word.

Posted by: August22 at September 9, 2006 9:09 PM

I am not Islamophobic, I am Jihadophobic. It's not an imaginary phobia either, and I'm not too particulary fond of rattlesnakes. Rattlesnakes, copperheads, and jihadists - all the same to me.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 9, 2006 9:18 PM

the problem with imbeciles like this Claiborne and people like him, is that they are so blind to the reality that is right in front of their faces, they totally ignore the truth. they are so wissy and
dont want to seem sooooo judgemental, that they give islam a blank slate. Claiborne and his ilk should be turned off from the moment they open their mouths, what a bunch of ignorant liberal mouth pieces.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at September 9, 2006 9:44 PM

Ya know what is really galling about THEM. It really is an Arab/Muslim superiority thing. THEY think we are stupid.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 9, 2006 10:07 PM

How do Muslims believe they can permanently both have the Qur'an - and the Hadith -- available to all Believers, and made available, in bowdlerized form, for Westerners as well, and not have many of those Infidels at long last actually read the texts for themselves, and then read to find out how contradictory or seemingly contradictory passages in the Qur'an are reconciled, and then will read hundres of the Hadith, an unforgettable experience for those who want the full effect of Islma, and finally will find out, eventually, not what the ernsts and armstrongs and espositos have by way of instruction to offer us, but what the earliest Muslims offer by way of the Muslim view of what Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, said and did.

One simply cannot both have the texts widely available, indeed quoted again and again at Islamic websites, and yet hope to hide forever the meaning for Muslims which those texts possess, and have possessed for more than a thousand years, when the gates of Ijtihad were slammed shut, that is to hide them from Infidels, not Infidels vulnerable to the siren song of Da'wa, or Call to Islam, but Infidels who want simply to find out what it is that makes the observable behavior by Muslims, and the attitudes they demonstrate, and the atmospherics of Muslim societies, what it is, what they are.

The apologists have had a field day for several decades. That has come to an end. Fewer and fewer people -- far fewer than are among those who presume to lead, to protect and instruct us -- are still willing to accept the nonsense and lies and hemidemisemiquavers of half-truths, as they may once have been.

Posted by: Hugh at September 10, 2006 1:02 AM

I typically ignore articles which use such mindless jingos as "islamophobia".

Americans are not scared of Islam. Why is it Muslims hate us? They hate us far more then we hate them. They personify hatred. They hold death marches and burn our flags and pray and shout in public that they want to murder us.

They blame us for their cursed lands. Their lands bear nothing. Ever. They are cursed and godforsaken.

God has blessed our land and cursed theirs. They are Cain, full of murder for us.

Cain! Repent, and God will bless your land.

Instead... they will not. They are liars, devoted to evil... they do not care that their land rots away, they do not care that the work of their hands produces only dust. They do not care that their children starve and suffer from horrible diseases. They keep to their blasphemous religion of murder.

We are obviously and richly blessed by God.

We are the Christian nation. That is how they see us. They are right.

One lie Europeans often like to pose to Americans is that we are so anti-Cosmpolitan. This is a typical stereotype perpetuated by the Left, especially European Leftists.

They forget, our nation, like some others, but not theirs... stands on their ideals. We have freedoms they dare not touch. Freedoms inherent in our Constitution. We have one in seven Americans today as a current immigrant. There is no "American" in race... (excepting natives, perhaps, which were and are quite sparse)... there are Europeans, Asians, Australians, Africans... people from all over the world.

Muslims pour into our country for a better life. They get it here.

But can anyone visit their country or move there, even despite the fact that their countries are all failures in every way? No. Not safely. They will kill you. They are savages. They are not friendly people. They are murderous to outsiders.

So, they live among us, and prosper... while they hate us and plan to kill us... and we can't even live among them, or even visit them safely... because they are the same savage, bloodthirsty, blasphemous horde that they were seven hundred years ago!

Thankfully, from them, however, we have such great fictional stereotypes as the Sand People in Star Wars... and the Klingons from Star Trek, though!

Thanks, Muslims for that!

Posted by: NovaRocket at September 10, 2006 1:57 AM

There are some kids in New York who don't understand Islam at all.
Five years ago they went to school one morning and then their parents didn't come to pick them up in the evening.
They were waiting and waiting and waiting...
Meanwhile the Palestinians were throwing a party.

Posted by: rocky at September 10, 2006 5:04 AM

WRONG.......WE UNDERSTAND! WE KNOW THEY WISH US HARM. BETTER TO KILL THEM THAN BE KILLED.

Posted by: Truthseeker at September 10, 2006 8:47 AM

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!!!

I HATE ISLAM AND TRUST NO MUSLIM ANYWHERE ON EARTH BECAUSE I LIVED AMONG THESE ALIENS IN SAUDI ARABIA. THEY FOLLOW THE BELIEFS OF A WARLORD WITH A TASTE FOR SIX-YEAR OLDS. HENCE, THE "PERFECT MAN." ISLAMAPHOBIA IS THE RATIONAL REACTION TO BEING EXPOSED TO ISLAM. ISLAM IS A PLAGUE ON HUMANITY. IGNORANCE OF ISLAM MY ASS. HATRED OF ISLAM IS RATIONAL!!!!!!!!

DEATH TO SHARIA, DEATH TO THE MULLAHS AND THE MUTAWAHS.

NEVER TRUST A MUSLIM; HE HAS RELIGIOUS SANCTION TO LIE. NOTHING GOOD HAS EVER COME FROM ISLAM. LOOK AT THE WHOLE ISLAMIC WORLD; IT'S ETERNALLY BACKWARDS.

ISLAM IS PURE EVIL.

Posted by: ThirdWorldHeaven at September 10, 2006 8:56 AM

I am very impressed with Robert's research and articles which are well written.

Americans are not ignorant. For the most part we are intellegent and discerning of that which is the truth and that which is not. Nor are we Islamaphobes. One does not have to read the Quran and its appendices, nor does one have to talk to Muslims to try to 'understand that Islam is a religion of peace.' One only has to observe the actions of Muslims in the US as well as in the middle east, to understand that Islam is a religion of death. Those that are engaged in this religion revel in death, other peoples' or their own. One's actions speaks louder than words.

There are no moderates in Islam for the following reasons: 1) in order for islam to reform itself, it must either modify the Quran and say that over the last 1300 years, the Quran was miss interpreted and all the scholars that did the interpretation was wrong. Or 2) say that Mohammad was incorrect in his intepretation of what he was told. Either way if you say that Mohammad was wrong, then he ceases to be a prophet. Or if the Quran was miss-interpreted all those years, then the Qoran ceases to be a holy book.

You cannot have the Quran without the prophet nor the prophet without the Quran. Without one or the other, Islam ceases to exist. Because the Quran is the prophet's thoughts and ideas and the prophet presented those ideas and thoughts, Islam cannot be modified without one or the other ceasing to have relevance.

Those muslims who claim to be moderate, are just unwilling to take on the task of jihad. Muslims first allegiance is to Allah. Their second is to other muslims.

They don't even have an allegiance to their own families. How can they have an allegiance to the United States?

Posted by: ranger2 at September 10, 2006 1:46 PM

While I certainly hold no candle for Islam (I am a Christian--meaning that I believe that Jesus is God incarnate, died on the cross for our sins, and rose from the dead), there is a grain of truth in stating that Americans don't understand the religion at all.

First of all, there is a misunderstanding that Islam is somehow "just like" Judaism or Christianity. Second, there is a deep misunderstanding of how important the concept of violent jihad is in the foundational Islamic texts. Third, there is the misunderstanding that there are Muslims and Muslims--no community of over a billion people is monolithic.

Fourth, elite Americans tend to be not only ignorant, but also patronizing towards anyone who takes an historic religion seriously. The idea that breaking away from the inherited faith (although, if you're Roman Catholic or Episcopalian, you may keep with the forms)is a necessary rite of passage for entry into the elite is a dangerous one, and it's coming home to roost in our conforntation with the Islamic world.

Posted by: Kepha at September 10, 2006 4:59 PM

It's time for a genuine Islamic Reformation. I mean big time reformation "a la Martin Luther". Any small reform will not do. Any outside intervention (physical or ideological) will not do either. Reformation of and from its inner xenophobic core faith will sufice.
Where are the non-fundamemtalist leaders?
Am I dreaming? or waiting for GODOT?

Posted by: sammish at September 10, 2006 5:47 PM

Yeah, the root of ignorance is Islam!

Posted by: Jeff at September 10, 2006 7:40 PM

No doubt many Americans are ignorant of islam, but the most ignorant of all are the news media, elected officials, both local and national, and the self-annointed, non-muslim "experts" who go on televsion and parrot the hackneyed mantra: "Islam is a peaceful religion that has been hijacked by fanatics."

Five years after 9-11, not one putative scholar, expert, commentator, reporter, or politician has provided an accurate, uncensored explanation of islam to the American people via the mainstream news media. And that is an egregious dereliction of duty because it gives people a false sense of security.

Ron Claiborne is about as ignorant and dangerous as they come and until he knows what he's talking about, he should keep his damned mouth shut. What does "islamophobia" have to do with 9-11 anyway? Just like so many other bleeding heart liberals, he's more concerned about backlash against the muslim fifth column than the Americans who suffered and are still suffering from this devastating atrocity.

Posted by: Susanp at September 10, 2006 8:27 PM

We Americans are a funny lot. We like our lives. We are very intolerant of people who want to kill us. Yes, there are circumstances where we would give up our lives, but we want to make that decision for ourselves, not have someone make it for us. I know that's hard for people in the rest of the world (anf their sycophants in America) to understand, but we're just funny that way.

Posted by: Balrog at September 11, 2006 11:25 AM

I gotta laugh at this non-sense. Whe I was ignorant about Islam is when I thought it was a "Religion of Peace hijacked by extremists." As I became more educated about Islam and my ignorance started to shrink, that's when I became really concerned.

The more I learn about Islam, the greater my fear of Islam becomes. Now I believe there is no such thing as islamophobia, because fear of Islam is a very reasonable and justifiable thing for any Infidel.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at September 11, 2006 1:04 PM

"Those who have studied American attitudes toward Muslims say at the root of prejudice is ignorance."
.................

I get so tired of this argument. That antipathy is always based upon ignorance has become a truism. If you disagree in any case, you are--well, prejudiced and ignorant.

Of course, there are some cases where learning more about a situation makes it less daunting--finding out that garter snakes are not poisonous, that sushi really does taste good if you give it a chance, that Spanish isn't as hard to learn as you might think.

But I have found that there are many things that look *much worse* on closer examination--Stalinist Russia, The Maoist Cultural Revolution, the practices of organized crime. These were all things I considered somewhat negatively as a child, but there was also a lot of romantisism attached--closer study in all these cases disabused me of these notions.

Twenty-five or thirty years ago I thought of many Islamic countries as violent and backward, but no more so than much of the rest of the Third World. I knew a little about some of the airline hijackings, kidnappings and assassinations, but I often saw these as scattered events. I don't think that I really connected the Iranian take-over of the US embassy, PLO violence against Israel, and Libyan highjackings, except in the most general way. I also didn't know a great deal about Islam itself, except as one of the monotheistic religions that originated in the Holy Land.

Well, like so many others here, the more I learned, the more alarmed I became. I came to realize how much of the violence is religion-based, how bad things had gotten in Europe, how much of the Muslim world is becoming more hard-line, rather than more enlightened.

Also, the idea that many Americans have become "Islamophobic" because of George Bush could not be more absurd. He has been bending over backward--much too far, actually--being at pains to separate "moderate" Muslims from extremists, even when it is far from warranted.

Posted by: gravenimage at September 11, 2006 11:27 PM

We understand Islam just fine. We can even predict what Muslims are going to do next---KILL PEOPLE!

Posted by: pythagoras at September 12, 2006 11:10 PM