http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=405238&in_page_id=1811&ct=5#StartComments

"The late Pope John Paul II spent over 25 years to build bridges and links with the Muslim community. He showed the world that its perception of Islam was false and that we are peace-loving people.

Didn't the late Pope get shot by a muslim?

Posted by: Borg at September 15, 2006 4:59 PM

A "humorous T-shirt" was once available that said, "If guns are outlawed, how will conservatives win any arguments?" Well, that sentiment wasn't good for much more than a chuckle, but one must wonder: If Muslims were to cease being feared for their propensity to violence when they feel "offended," would anyone pay attention to them at all?

Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at September 15, 2006 5:02 PM

If Pope Benedict apologizes, for speaking the truth, I will be very disappointed.
I might even say some harsh things about islam.

Posted by: Atheist_Kafir at September 15, 2006 5:03 PM

the vatican source said: "My personal reaction was"

1) who is the vatican source?
2) I am not interested in the personal opinion of an anonymous vatican source.

Posted by: FedUp at September 15, 2006 5:04 PM

Benedict XVI needn't say anything more, nor should any "Vatican spokesman" put any words into his mouth.

Like the cartoons extravaganza, this is about power and intimidation by the muslim dons (ie, imams), nothing more, nothing less. I personally wish the Pope had been much more direct about the islamic scourge, but certainly understand that there are Catholics and other Christians who are very much in harm's way in dar-al-islam and he has their safety in mind.

Posted by: Infidel33 at September 15, 2006 5:12 PM

“And in the religious league division one today we had a mighty struggle between the two leading sides, that saw the ace goal keeper known as the ‘Pope’ using his massive intellect to put one between the extremist goal posts straight from the Christian box.”

“No I must disagree with that statement! Muslims had no idea that the Pope was going to shoot at the goal, so the reaction of our defensive players is completely justified! They may have let the goal in but they had the effigies burning within seconds. Our manager will have the goal disallowed within days.”

“But the fact remains the goal was in.”

“No it was not. If you ask the referee he will tell you that goal was out.”

“We found the referee, well most of him anyway.”

"Then the goal was out, and that is Allahs will!"

Posted by: Mert at September 15, 2006 5:23 PM

"Have you noticed that "radical Christians," although just insulted by Rosie O'Donnell, are not rioting or threatening anyone's life?"

Well, how much has to happen to Christianity world wide before a group of Christians have said "enough?" Will Christianity and the rest of the world say "enough" or "uncle?"

I would like to discuss a really baaaad group of Christian fanatics - they are annoying, arrogant, and constantly in you face. Some of these screaming fanatics actually attended Notre Dame University.

If the only rabid Christians on this planet exist in football stadiums on Saturday, we are hopeless. Possibly the only thing that would send people into a murderous rampage would be the end of football from a fatwa by the Mufti of South Bend.

Satire or sarcasm? All non-muslims of this world must begin thinking of the possibility of a future war the likes of which we have not seen.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 15, 2006 5:24 PM

The Pope is also implying but not saying you god and our God are not the same God.

And honestly, this really needs to be pointed out to the world. There are so many religions in the west and so much propaganda that islam is pushing that their god is the same as the Christian god. I speak to so many people across the US that say exactly that. "We have the same gods" or "The Bible and the quran are the same books". When asked how do you know that? They say well our church told us that, or the newspaper said that, or we invited muslims into our Christian church and they told us that.

I wish the MSM would run with the headline "Pope declaires Catholic God and muslim god are not the same gods".

Posted by: alaskan1000 at September 15, 2006 5:24 PM

Why does it always fall on us, the Westerners, to always bend over backwards to 'build bridges' or 'reach' to the Muslim community? Why cant the Muslims living in the West conform to our standards?
Have we forgotten that this is OUR house, and that we should be making the rules?

Posted by: george_rem at September 15, 2006 5:32 PM

I am not a Catholic, but I support the freedom for the Pope to say what he thinks. This freedom is something Muslims do not have. Muslims do not even have the freedom to entertain the question of whether Islam is false, because even the contemplation puts them to being a kafir. Muhammad got his followers to murder those people who dare criticize him.

And I think the Pope knows full well the difficulties it may cause his flock. Yet, there is still a need to say it. Dhimmitude has never brought the believers anything, except perpetual dhimmitude, forced conversions and even death.

And the Pope ought to remember that the Bible itself says that true believers will be martyred in the End Times. It is already happening today for Christians under Muslim rule, and the days are coming closer and closer as we watch the rise of Islam, the making of the Caliphate. What the Pope ought to do is also prepare the believers for this eventual martyrdom.

Al-Mahdi & AntiChrist

Posted by: yaqub at September 15, 2006 5:33 PM

Also, why is the Pope made the villain here?! It seems that everybody in the media and politics is condemning the Pope. How depressing to have the Muslim mobs dictate what we can or cannot say in the heart of Europe.

Posted by: george_rem at September 15, 2006 5:35 PM

So what's the lesson to be learned here? To never tell a maniac with a knife that he's a maniac with a knife?

No. The Pope carefully crafted his lecture to argue that the use of violence to promote religion is opposed to true faith. Granted, it is an error that Christians have too frequently fallen into, but it is an unChristian error. That is, violent promotion of Christianity is itself in conflict with Christ's teachings. Violent promotion of Islam is not in conflict with Mohammed's teachings. Check the Gospel. Check the Qur'an.

The Pope's words were made in spite of the maniac with the knife. They were uttered to those who have yet to even understand that there is a maniac with a knife, ready, eager, overjoyed at the prospect of being outraged once again. These words teach an important lesson to those still asleep.

Posted by: Chatillon at September 15, 2006 5:45 PM

Pelayo,

I was handed a leaflet by a bunch of singing Christians when I was on my way to the market. When I had a moment to read the leaflet it told me that Atheists will burn in hell.

As an Atheist I can’t say I was really chuffed at being told that I must agree with these innocent looking Christians or spend an eternity with Saddam and the Devil having kinky sex.

But no worries they were just kids on the street and they knew no better. Having looked at them I also doubt that any one of them would be useful in a fight.

I have never been asked to join Islam by a group in the street. They just don’t operate that way. But while the Christian pestering group printed up leaflets of impending doom the Islamists force you to meet your maker.

In the current climate it would be difficult for the Islamists to kill a Pope and it not be seen as an act of all the Muslim community. By attacking him they lose in the eyes of the Catholics.

But if he apologises we all lose. Imagine the head of the Catholic church apologising because a Pakistani or Turkish official took offence?

Posted by: Mert at September 15, 2006 5:56 PM

The whole Pope Flap shows who really insults Islam. When have we ever seen the headline, "Osama fears for his safety after hijacking Islam"? When have we ever seen angry Muslim protestors burning images of Osama, instead of brandishing them for the cameras?
Yes, it is quite interesting how Muslims never seem to be really bothered by all the beheadings, terror attacks, riots and murders. "Moderate" Muslims say that these people are perverting the teachings of Mohammed and the Quran, but they never actually do anything about it, or get angry. When an infidel seemingly misrepresents Islam (or just tells the truth about it), you've suddenly got death threats, demonstrations and riots going on, at worst.

But when the Pope suggests Islam is violent, Islam becomes...violent.
I'm a little puzzled by this. If Muslims aren't born with developmental disorders, they should be able to figure out the irony in becoming violent when someone suggests that you follow a violent religion. Maybe the Quran doesn't teach irony. There's also another problem: if Muslims are violent and see no problem with that, why do they get offended when someone says that Islam is violent? My theory is that they need to silence anyone who speaks the truth about Islam. Infidels must not know anything about Islam's true nature (you'd think that infidels would become aware of it when Muslims act violently, but that's nothing that a little dhimmi propaganda can't fix).

Here a question for you Moral Equivalence fans: Have you noticed that "radical Christians," although just insulted by Rosie O'Donnell, are not rioting or threatening anyone's life?
I've been watching Penn & Teller's Bullshit! recently, and they've repeatedly attacked or ridiculed several aspects of Christianity. As far as I know, there have been no riots, death threats or assassination attempts.

Moral equivalency seems to be one of the most fundamental cornerstones of modern thinking. Everything in the universe must be morally equal. A simple example: when a person is horrified by what's being done in Islam's name, he simply states that all religions are evil and must be eradicated. Why does he say that, instead of just blaming Islam? Moral equivalency. It's unacceptable that one religion is any different than another.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at September 15, 2006 6:05 PM

Mert, I gather by your posing that you are still alive. That is the difference, being annoyed of dead.

Remember as a atheist you must accept Islam or die, because there is no Book of Atheism.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 15, 2006 6:12 PM

There are few things that the muslims could do to work the destruction of their jihadist fantasies than try to kill the Pope, or blow up portions of St. Peter's Cathedral.

Just watch.

If they hit Florence, if they hit some treasured cathedral or chapel in Europe, just watch the yelp of pain from the nerve they will have struck. There's reasons so far muslims haven't gone after such significant artistic monuments. And that's they DON'T want to rile up Europeans prematurely. They want to hit them, but not rouse them, they want to brag about tweaking them, but they don't want to have to scamper for the hills in a panicked flight. They want the thrill and titillation of killing Westerners, but the last thing they want is Navy Seals of British SAS guys tracking them down to their lairs. Because, there isn't any taqiya or bullshit that will spare them when they meet those guys.

Posted by: Dan at September 15, 2006 6:30 PM

But as an Atheist I have no need for moral equivalency in any matter that is religious.

As many Atheists do, I refrain from pushing my side of the argument because the world of religiousness spread before me is so vast and volatile it is often better to keep quiet.

But that does not stop me identifying Islam with a man who lived in a cave and Christianity with a man who rebelled against Roman rule.

The ultimate insult to people like me who wonder not about whether God or Allah came first, but what was here before the Big Bang is that religion is killing the world.

I back the Pope because he speaks the truth about Islam, but the day religion leaves politics will be a happy day.

Posted by: Mert at September 15, 2006 6:33 PM

"If they hit Florence, if they hit some treasured cathedral or chapel in Europe, just watch the yelp of pain from the nerve they will have struck. There's reasons so far muslims haven't gone after such significant artistic monuments. "

Even if they blow up the sistine chapel, there will still be multi-culti leftist idiots that will say "our art has been destroyed forever because of the irresponsability of the... POPE"

Posted by: FedUp at September 15, 2006 6:39 PM

I thought it interesting to see that the Pakistan Legislature agreed to condemn the Pope but absolutely will walk out of the Legislature if laws are passed that BAN RAPE.

Muslims have their prioritys.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at September 15, 2006 6:47 PM

From Francis W. Porretto above:

"If Muslims were to cease being feared for their propensity to violence when they feel "offended," would anyone pay attention to them at all?"

If you take away their oil and their hair-trigger violence, no one would give a rat's about what Muslims said or did in their own countries. It's only when they try to export their behavior to other countries that cause people to ever have a problem with Islam.

Posted by: ryoga at September 15, 2006 6:49 PM

I hope the Pope does not get timid decides to keep his mouth shut from now on. That would send another message to the islamic world that bullying can silence anyone, even a Pope. That would only embolden them more.

I fear however that the Pope will shut up. I don't think he has the spine to say, "Sorry, but I stand by what I said. Islam has issues."

I think we have head the last anti-islamic words from his holiness' mouth.

If I am wrong, and he backs up his words with more words, I will convert to Catholicism. Or become a German.

Posted by: August22 at September 15, 2006 6:53 PM

Very good one: "The whole Pope Flap shows who really insults Islam. When have we ever seen the headline, "Osama fears for his safety after hijacking Islam"? "

These things are absolutely infuriating. Islamists have a religion of murder, suicide, and blasphemy. Whatever it may have been in the past... today it is a religion of human sacrifice in the Name of God. (Granted, their "allah" is intended to be God, but their scriptures show they have no idea who He is.)

Who, then, are these savages to say anything else?

This is what they are, and they are this way because of the poison of Islam.

The entire peace of the planet is in danger because of one thing: Islam.

These creatures... are savages. Even these new protests continually confirm this. They hold murder frenzy marches. Death marches. They get together and celebrate murder and slander... as we might celebrate football or some literary achievement.

Islam has brought nothing but death to the world.

It is unfortunate that they had oil on their lands, because otherwise, today, they would still be living in their caves.

The Jed Clampett of the world is the Muslim... only this hillybilly isn't a kind person... but a savage creature who lusts for human blood and is driven by the darkness of lies.

Posted by: NovaRocket at September 15, 2006 6:53 PM

I am so dreading the depression, the despair, the feeling of disgust and helplessness when the Pope apologizes.

I dare not let myself hope for anything more.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at September 15, 2006 8:05 PM

Grew up Catholic but havn't been a practicing anything for years. If the Pope holds his ground and doesn't cave into the pressure I'll go to mass every sunday.

Posted by: Don at September 15, 2006 8:11 PM

FINALLY! How refreshing to have someone brave enough to expose Islam for exactly what it is. Thank you, Pope Benedict, for having the backbone that seems to be lacking in most world leaders today.

Now we Christians need to get behind the pope. We need to speak out against injustice, be defenders of truth, and get back down on our knees in prayer!

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

Posted by: Ginger at September 15, 2006 8:24 PM

Mert wrote: "The ultimate insult to people like me who wonder not about whether God or Allah came first, but what was here before the Big Bang is that religion is killing the world."

Although I am not an atheist I can understand that feeling, although it's regrettable because I believe religion, faith in a higher power beyond human understanding, can also be a force for good in the world. But we don't see much evidence of the good side of religion anywhere in the world these days.

Making crude, "one-is-just-as-bad-as-the-other" moral equations between so-called Christian fundamentalists and so-called Islamic fundamentalists is clearly wrong-headed and offensive, because the evidence doesn't support it now. People are right to take issue with that. Christianity certainly went through not one but many periods of mass corruption, fanaticism, mob violence and bloody repression, but we're over that now, thanks be to God.

However,I've been pilloried often on this site not for that kind of crude and stupid statement, which I have never made, but for pointing out that the potential for fanaticism exists in every religion, and that this is something the evidence clearly supports. Fanatic elements of the Sikh community in Canada bombed an airplane in 1985, killing over 300 people. Yes, Canada's worse act of terrorism in history, and to date, was committed NOT by radical Islamists but by radical Sikhs. These people also persecuted and terrorized moderates in their own community over a period of years. Their cancerous influence seems now, at long last, to be dying out, but it's not something we can ever be totally secure about. Nor are the various neo-Nazis and White Supremicists around the world, NEARLY ALL OF WHOM claim to be Christians (the KKK, Aryan Nations, militia movements, Christian Heritage Party, Christian Identity, Church of Jesus Christ Christian, as one has called itself - real original name there)likely to completely die out any time soon. And until they do we have a right to be wary of anyone who overtly waves the Christian banner in this struggle, as commentators to this site do on a nauseatingly regular basis.

We also have a right to be wary of those same people who claim that Europe's troubles are due to its losing its "Christian identity", as if everyone starting to go back to church again would somehow make everything right. Europe has not had a very strong Christian identity for a long time; most so-called good churchgoing Christians in Europe, with some heroic exceptions, stood idly by and did nothing while millions of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, leftists, and others were marched off to the death camps. They knew exactly what was going on and didn't care. Now the subsequent generations of Europeans are having to live with that collective guilt. So they can be forgiven, I think, for resisting the idea that all they need now is a little more God in their lives.

It is NOT Islam vs. Christianity; it's a particularly vile, anti-social, nihilist and now dangerously widespread form of Islam against basically the rest of humanity.

Posted by: angloirishslav at September 15, 2006 8:39 PM

I'm ready to join the Catholics -- the trouble is, I don't believe in God, virgin birth, or any of that stuff.

We seem to agree on the important stuff though.

Posted by: Hyman Roth at September 15, 2006 9:10 PM

Pope is slated to meet with Iran's Khatami in October, which will make for an interesting meeting in light of the Pope's comments.

The following adds a little context to the Pope's comment in his speech:

"In the seventh conversation ('diálesis' -- controversy) edited by professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the jihad (holy war). The emperor must have known that sura 2:256 reads: 'There is no compulsion in religion.' It is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under [threat]. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Koran, concerning holy war.

Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the 'Book' and the 'infidels,' he turns to his interlocutor somewhat brusquely with the central question on the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words: 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'

The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. 'God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably ('syn logo') is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats.... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...'" [end quote]

Too bad we are not dealing with "reasonable" Muslims, but only with evil and inhuman adherents to Islam who cannot be accused of misinterpreting their scriptures! The so-called "moderate" Muslim has nowhere to go, since they cannot appeal to their holy book in order to condemn the so-called "radical".

But we all know this, because we have taken the time to educate ourselves in search of the truth behind Islam. The "religion of peace" is Satan's counterfeit to bring the world into uncontrollable chaos through very "unreasonable" people. At this point, reason will not prevail ... it is futile.

The Pope was not cruel or unreasonable with his comments (unfortunately, he was speaking the truth!), but he is being victimized by the poor innocent victims, the "unreasonable" Muslims.

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (The Book of the People)

Posted by: TheEvidentSmoke at September 15, 2006 10:46 PM

Yaqub,

I went to that website and read for a quite a long while. I tried to email the site but was unable to do so. The site does an excellent job of aligning the different aspects of Isa vs Jesus and Mahdi vs Antichrist. Excellent job! Is there a way to contact the webmaster? I would like to suggest a couple of things, ie the 'Trinitarian' aspect and the physical description of the Dajjal, both very important points - and both totally the opposite of what Christians believe the Antichrist will be. God bless you and thank you for the link.

Posted by: Kay at September 15, 2006 11:46 PM

Those that may threaten the Popes safety should be aware what the consequences their words will surely bring. Catholics will not stand for violence aimed at this truly Holy Man. The hypocrisy through out the Islamic world is staggering, after all what was the faith that befell the old Byzantine Empire? Jihad = mass murder, massive forced conversion, beheadings and
rape, all weapons used historically to spread this so-called religion of peace.

May God Bless and keep close the soul of Oriana
Fallaci. a true heroe.

Posted by: sul3j at September 16, 2006 12:11 AM

I hope that Benedict never apologizes for what he has quoted.

Personally, the only people that should apologize are the Muslims that incite violence against Christians.

Posted by: Marie at September 16, 2006 3:33 PM