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Violent protests feared. Seething spreading elsewhere -- because the Pope dared suggest Islam is violent. None of those protesting seem to have realized that the best way to refute the Pope's statement that religious violence is unjustified would be to eschew religious violence.
From AP:
ISTANBUL, Turkey - Pakistan's legislature unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top Shiite cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him of reviving the mentality of the Crusades.
Ralph Peters will no doubt be along presently to call the pontiff a right-wing bigot with genocidal longings.
Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad....Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-rooted party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet or, worse, a deliberate distortion.
"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz told Turkish state media. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."
"Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words," Kapusuz added. "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini."
Even Turkey's staunchly pro-secular opposition party demanded the pope apologize before his visit. Another party led a demonstration outside Ankara's largest mosque, and a group of about 50 people placed a black wreath outside the Vatican's diplomatic mission.
Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said the pope should explain and "tell us what exactly did he mean. ... It can't just be left like that."
Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi has tried to defuse anger, saying the pope did not intend to offend Muslim sensibilities and insisting Benedict respects Islam. In Pakistan, the Vatican envoy voiced regret at "the hurt caused to Muslims."
But Muslim leaders said outreach efforts by papal emissaries were not enough.
"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology — not through his officials," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon's most senior Shiite cleric, told worshippers in Beirut....
In Cairo, some 100 demonstrators stood outside the al-Azhar mosque chanting: "Oh Crusaders, oh cowards! Down with the pope!"...
In Britain, the head of the Muslim Council, a body representing 400 Muslim groups, said the emperor's views quoted by the pope were bigoted.
"One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor's views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism," said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council's secretary-general.
Many Muslims accused Benedict of seeking to promote Judeo-Christian dominance over Islam....
Few in Turkey, especially, failed to pick up on Benedict's reference to Istanbul as Constantinople — the city's name more than 500 years ago — before it was conquered by Muslim Ottoman Turks.
Actually it remained Constantinople, although under the Turkish yoke, until the early 20th century.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel defended the German-born pope, saying his message had been misunderstood."It is an invitation to dialogue between religions and the pope has explicitly urged this dialogue, which I also endorse and see as urgently necessary," she said Friday. "What Benedict XVI makes clear is a decisive and uncompromising rejection of any use of violence in the name of religion."
In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.
"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.
Great. Memo to Ibrahim Hooper of CAIR: I'm a Catholic, and I volunteer for this dialogue.
Posted by Robert at September 15, 2006 11:31 PM
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"One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor's views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism," said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council's secretary-general.
I LOVE this bit!!
Isn't this how all high-ranking muslim mullahs behave?
What a joke!
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at September 15, 2006 11:45 PM
Western nations, and Christianity, are expected to maintain a defense against all forms of foreign predatory totalitarian systems. The Pope represents the frontline of Western Christianity.
While Islamic officialdom maintain the façade of peace, their aggressive global totalitarian aspirations and religious texts justify perpetual violence against others. Without plan and action, non-Muslims will witness the destruction of their own history, tradition, culture, and civilization.
at September 15, 2006 11:54 PM
You dare insult the peaceful religion of Islam? You must DIE. We will kill all of your children, rape your wife and abuse your farm animals until you scream “islam means peace” Allah hu Ackbar, cough, cough spit, we are a peaceful and benevolent society who invented all nice things like, light bulbs and chocolate Easter eggs, praise be to allah and his earth bound flunky mohammad and his camel Winston Salem (we also invented cigarettes) One more crack from your Pope and we will stop shopping Walmart and make stupid demands and if you really piss us off we will release a video. Accept islam now or we will regroup and think of something else that makes us mad.
Posted by: Ronin at September 16, 2006 12:04 AM
No peace marches? No non-violent protests? No linking hands and singing kumbi'yallah? No sit-ins? No walk-outs? Violence from the religion of peace? Say it ain't so! Or ae they afraid that "the mentality of the Crusades will be revived" with the same disasterous results for islam as the last time? One can only hope....
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 16, 2006 12:07 AM
Someone here is in dire need of a world history refresher course. Hint: it's not the Pope and it's not the 'infidels'. I have never in my life come across a group of people who are so bigoted and when confronted with the truth of how they are, are so unwilling to hear it. The United States needs to close its borders and stop all immigration. I'm afraid it may be too late for Great Britain and other European countries. The few countries that believe Israel has a right to exist need to band together for Israel's protection. Let the Muslims practice their 'non-violent' religion secluded from the rest of the world. We don't want it.
Posted by: backwoodsgranny at September 16, 2006 12:12 AM
My only hope and prayer is that the excellent information posted on this site and others like it will spread far and wide all over the world, and that many people will learn the truth about Islam.
Actually, all people have to do is visit sites like "Ask the Iman" to find out how bizarre and hateful Islam is.
Read some of the inquiries, especially the ones from women, to be introduced to a frightening and repressed world where god is your harsh and bloodthirsty enemy. You will live in fear of your spiritual leaders and of your male family members.
Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 16, 2006 12:35 AM
"My only hope and prayer is that the excellent information posted on this site and others like it will spread far and wide all over the world, and that many people will learn the truth about Islam."
Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty
They are spreading! One MSM paper here in Australia has a columnist/'blogger who is very well aware of this site, and LGF. He gets mentioned on LGF every now and then.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/
As much as I find all this rather depressing, I am spreading the word because I am not going down without a fight - even in this humble capacity. It's my duty.
Sometimes it is great to read like-minded opinions. It's also good to vent.
Posted by: Gramfan at September 16, 2006 12:43 AM
"In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics."
From what I have read of the Pope's earlier writings, it looks like the Pope understands perfectly well. Hence the problem for Islam. Maybe CAIR are going to try to deceive the ordinary Catholics in America.
at September 16, 2006 12:47 AM
Any more argments needed against Turkey joining the EU??!! They don't even allow building of churches.. what do you think they allow Synagogues in that rogue nation.
I say.. let's FREE Constantinople and return it to its rightful owner the GREEKS..!!
let's move Pislam back across the Bosporus and establish FORTRESS EUROPE **NOW** !!!!
Let us remove the threat lurking within. The multikulti enablers and Fifht Columnists shall apply for asylum in the Pislam client countries..
The REST of us will be JUST FINE amongst ourselves. In return we should pledge safe haven to all persecuted minorities.. the Zororastrians.. the Copts.. the Druse.. the Jews and any others who are being persecuted by these mufti fools.
we need to live separately from these mindless devils.
GET THEM OUT OF HERE
at September 16, 2006 12:49 AM
Oh.. one more thing re. Turkey in the EU.. it was GWB pressuring Europe for years to take them in.. he even used words like racism.. is he PAID by the SOWdis or what..? or is he thinking this would weaken Europe which he may view as an economically competing bloc?
why else would he push such insanity? Turkey is NOT European and NEVER will be!
They think we sheeples [sic]
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 16, 2006 12:52 AM
LONG LIVE DENMARK!!
Germany is about to JOIN you!!!
Who is next..? When will our British brothers.. and our French.. Join the RESISTANCE that started in Denmark last year and now is spreading to Germany and the Vatican? The people of the USA shall witness the first timid signs of encouragement from Europe. They deserve nothing less from all of us! Let us join in the fight! I am ready. Are you?
LONG LIVE THE IMMORTAL POPE BENEDIKT!
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 16, 2006 1:01 AM
A perfect strategy to wake up the sleeping masses.
Keep them ranting and raving and firing their kalishnikovs. From Motoons to the Pope to Israel. Let's keep them cranked up.= homosexuality, pedophilia, slavery, beheadings violence, bombings assassinations and on and on and on
Allah is satan, Mohammed is his prophet.
Muslim pride and egos. hurt feelings.
Pump up the violence.
Show us what you Muslims are really made of. Wake up the sleeping giant. You will not know what hit you.
at September 16, 2006 1:03 AM
Down with the Pope? OK, fine:
Then down with the Ayatollah, and al-Ahzar, and all the imams of the ummah, and all of islam, for the shahada, which is an uncompromising rejection of Christianity as blasphemy. And - as islamic apologists everywhere say unendingly, they who decry question of the mythical 'Allah' but encourage question of the document Holocaust - is not the insult to God the greater of the evils? Then let islam be silent, and the shahada spoken no more, out of fear of offending this being that is not known - discounting wild speculations about a 'missing text'.
Why not? Islam: know your limits. Speak no more the shahada. It is insulting.
Prophet Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at September 16, 2006 1:03 AM
"You dare insult the peaceful religion of Islam? You must DIE. We will kill all of your children, rape your wife and abuse your farm animals until you scream “islam means peace” Allah hu Ackbar, cough, cough spit, we are a peaceful and benevolent society who invented all nice things like, light bulbs and chocolate Easter eggs, praise be to allah and his earth bound flunky mohammad and his camel Winston Salem (we also invented cigarettes) One more crack from your Pope and we will stop shopping Walmart and make stupid demands and if you really piss us off we will release a video. Accept islam now or we will regroup and think of something else that makes us mad. "
Posted by: Ronin
Great post, Ronin!! I enjoyed that!
Posted by: Gramfan at September 16, 2006 1:07 AM
Oh, and by the way I will no longer pay the jizya (infidel tax) when earthquakes or tsunamis or any other catastrophy strikes Muslims. No more contributions to aid them. That must, also, give them swelled heads when they see us infidels trying to outdo each other giving them money. I'm fed up.
Posted by: nberio at September 16, 2006 1:10 AM
Well its certainly good to see they are expanding their range of totalitarian dictator insults. I am getting real sick of the Hitler thing. At least now the Pope is a Hitler and a Mussolini. I still hold out hope they won’t forget Mao and Stalin. I mean, all evil dictators deserve equal time don’t they?
Posted by: tgusa at September 16, 2006 1:11 AM
LET them wreak havoc in Germany as they did in Paris and hopefully the hun will get up off his knees and GO FOR THE JUGULAR!
Bring it on you mosbots!! Zeigt was ihr drauf habt, ihr Schweinemuftis! Es ist höchste Zeit, daß ihr geht!
Sorry for the German cursing in this forum, but I have to deliver word from the German Street!
They can now be considered forewarned. As they like to do to us in their stupid little videos they like to release. We do not demand conversion.
ALL WE DEMAND IS: get the HELL OUT!!
Wir haben genug!
We've had ENOUGH!
The Pope is a True European Hero and I hope he will fight on! Take his place amongst the GREAT Jan Sobieski and the IMMORTAL Charles Martell. Yes and Winston Churchill too. Europe has been splintered and fighting amongst ourselves.. THOSE DAYS ARE ABOUT TO BE OVER!! We are speaking to each other.. we native Europeans are UNITING.. Yes.. across borders and states! We reach out to our brothers not only in the USA and Israel, but ALL and ANY nation whose people are threatened by Pislam.
Fight on Brothers! FIGHT!!!
BRING it ON, pislamo-boys!
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 16, 2006 1:19 AM
LET them wreak havoc in Germany as they did in Paris and hopefully the hun will get up off his knees and GO FOR THE JUGULAR!
Bring it on you mosbots!! Zeigt was ihr drauf habt, ihr Schweinemuftis! Es ist höchste Zeit, daß ihr geht!
Sorry for the German cursing in this forum, but I have to deliver word from the German Street!
They can now be considered forewarned. As they like to do to us in their stupid little videos they like to release. We do not demand conversion.
ALL WE DEMAND IS: get the HELL OUT!!
Wir haben genug!
We've had ENOUGH!
The Pope is a True European Hero and I hope he will fight on! Take his place amongst the GREAT Jan Sobieski and the IMMORTAL Charles Martell. Yes and Winston Churchill too. Europe has been splintered and fighting amongst ourselves.. THOSE DAYS ARE ABOUT TO BE OVER!! We are speaking to each other.. we native Europeans are UNITING.. Yes.. across borders and states! We reach out to our brothers not only in the USA and Israel, but ALL and ANY nation whose people are threatened by Pislam.
Fight on Brothers! FIGHT!!!
BRING it ON, pislamo-boys!
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 16, 2006 1:19 AM
It's great to see the Pope growing a pair...if only our leaders in the USA would follow suit.
Posted by: ReligionofPeas at September 16, 2006 1:33 AM
Sure hope I'm wrong in my opinion about this flap, but the way the west continues to cave to the Muzzies demands, the Pope I believe, will, in the "spirit of peace and understanding" issue an apology within a week.
Posted by: krkrjak at September 16, 2006 1:41 AM
Perhaps the west finally has a leader who is not afraid to let the Muslims know that he has got their number.
Posted by: wallyUK at September 16, 2006 1:44 AM
Rise up, oh Muslim faithful. Become enraged, unhinged, suicidal. Your god needs his own creation to defend his honor. (what kind of powerless god is that?) Attack, burn, destroy, kill. Show the world how peaceful Islam really is.
Posted by: Xero G at September 16, 2006 1:45 AM
MAYBE THE MUSLIM MUTANTS ARE STARTING TO CATCH ON.....WE HAVE HAD IT WITH YOU PRIMITIVES!!! YOUR RELIGION IS NOT A RELIGION IT IS A BLASHEMY AGAINST MANKIND. YOUR ACTIONS OF MURDER, BURNINGS, RAPES, BEHEADINGS. YOUR OUTRAGE AGAINST ALL CIVILIZED THINGS MAKES US HATE YOU MORE WHERE ONCE WE TRIED TO UNDERSTAND YOU AND GIVE YOU THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. YOU ARE HANGING YOURSELVES BY YOUR HATE AND MOB ACTIONS AND WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN DEMISE> MULLAHS GET OUT OF TOWN!!! THE WORLD IS STARTING TO REALIZE THAT YOU ARE NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE, BUT THAT YOU ARE A BRAINWASHED BUNCH OF FOOLS. HATERS OF MANKIND, HATERS OF WOMEN, HATERS OF ANYTHING THAT IS GOOD. WELL KEEP THIS UP AND YOU WILL EVENTUALLY BE SMASHED AND DESTROYED AND YOUR ADHERENTS WILL BE SOON BE FREED. WE WILL NOT ALLOW YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET ATOMICS WHICH WE KNOW YOU WOULD USE AGAINST CIVILIZATION...WE WILL DESTROY YOU.....SO KEEP IT UP.....YOUR END IS COMING....IT IS WRITTEN. YOUR PROPHET MOHAMMED WAS A MURDERER AND APSOTATE. MAY HE BE DAMNED FOR ETERNITY. WE HATE YOU AND WILL DESTROY YOU.
Posted by: Truthseeker at September 16, 2006 1:47 AM
they compare the pope to hitler and mussolini...
they have short(or just convenient) memories...the arabs were allied with hitler and mussolini in world war two...
islam is on the march and i am glad that the pope brought this into the light...
radical islam means never having to say you're sorry ;&
it is all well and good that each race/religion/nationality/etc. wants to be treated the same civilized way...how about they all behave the same civilized way !!!
Posted by: religion of(blown to)pieces at September 16, 2006 3:02 AM
they compare the pope to hitler and mussolini...
they have short(or just convenient) memories...the arabs were allied with hitler and mussolini in world war two...
islam is on the march and i am glad that the pope brought this into the light...
radical islam means never having to say you're sorry ;&
it is all well and good that each race/religion/nationality/etc. wants to be treated the same civilized way...how about they all behave the same civilized way !!!
Posted by: religion of(blown to)pieces at September 16, 2006 3:03 AM
they compare the pope to hitler and mussolini...
they have short(or just convenient) memories...the arabs were allied with hitler and mussolini in world war two...
islam is on the march and i am glad that the pope brought this into the light...
radical islam means never having to say you're sorry ;&
it is all well and good that each race/religion/nationality/etc. wants to be treated the same civilized way...how about they all behave the same civilized way !!!
Posted by: religion of(blown to)pieces at September 16, 2006 3:03 AM
I just got home and had a look at the Hindi daily. muslims went crazy in the cities of Bhopal, Ajmer, and Lucknow. There are pics of burka clad women rallying in Bhopal and LONG bearded men screaming in the streets of Srinagar. The daily actually had the nerve to say that the Pope only repeated what the Byzantine emperor said about mohammad (the "prophet" was not used by the daily). It also said that mohammad was cruel and inhuman.
I feel good.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 3:18 AM
god bless the pope.
Posted by: alwaysinfidel at September 16, 2006 3:23 AM
The unique problem is that some catholics will die for these words, islam is like that. Now the Pope must be like he has been silent, he has spoken, now he has to be silent. It´s the best.
Posted by: Franze at September 16, 2006 3:32 AM
The Pope dared suggest Islam is violent.
Did the Romans crucify?... Yes.
Did the Jews crucify? ... No.
Did the Christians crucify... No.
Did the muslim crucify ...
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null
Posted by: kasper1062 at September 16, 2006 3:33 AM
"they compare the pope to hitler and mussolini...
they have short(or just convenient) memories...the arabs were allied with hitler and mussolini in world war two..."
posted by religion of(blown to)pieces
,,,,and are calling him a Zionist as well!!!!
Sign of definite brain-damage!
arjun
How is it over there? Do you think it will get worse?
The whole thing is here:
http://www.theindiancatholic.com/newsread.asp?nid=3429
at September 16, 2006 3:52 AM
THE POPES JOB IS TO PROTECT CHRISTIANITY.
he has sent a message to christians all around the world. now all those that have had their head in the sand will listen.
expect more ambiguous messages.
at September 16, 2006 3:53 AM
"Muslims Offended by an Inconvenient Truth"
http://www.rightlinx.com/?p=208 Posted by: McCain at September 16, 2006 4:04 AM
Gramfan,
Thanks for the link. Yes, the protests marches shall take place in my city today, and news is coming in from several other cities about the protests there.
What I find encouraging is that the newspapers did not criticize the Pope. They merely said that he was quoting a Byzantine emperor. The dailies I read are the largest circulating Hindi and English ones over here, and since they have taken a stand (albeit gingerly) with the Pope, and mentioned "Byzantine" means that lots of people right now are either googling the word, or going to a local library. Some will end up on anti jihad sites like ours. A lot will wake up. His Holiness has made a big move. Now if only he takes a firm stand.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 4:18 AM
Gramfan,
Thanks for the link. Yes, the protests marches shall take place in my city today, and news is coming in from several other cities about the protests there.
What I find encouraging is that the newspapers did not criticize the Pope. They merely said that he was quoting a Byzantine emperor. The dailies I read are the largest circulating Hindi and English ones over here, and since they have taken a stand (albeit gingerly) with the Pope, and mentioned "Byzantine" means that lots of people right now are either googling the word, or going to a local library. Some will end up on anti jihad sites like ours. A lot will wake up. His Holiness has made a big move. Now if only he takes a firm stand.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 4:18 AM
Thanks for the link Gramfan. One of the stranger and more amusing things I've encountered in the debate about islamofascism is the very kind of aversion to rationality that Benedict talks about: that is, I've been (wrongly) accused on islamic forums of being i) a Christian or ii) a Jew, and in either case of trying to "hamstring" God with rationality. (The stone-age argumentative points that invariably follow such a declaration don't bear mentioning.) As Benedict puts it:
"The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: Not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God's will, we would even have to practice idolatry."
The truly surprising - and amusing - thing is that the very same people would then turn around and demand that I agree with them that Christ's divinity was false, since "who would imagine that God would enter the world in such a lowly way?". I was a little surprised to enter into the debate as a defender of Christianity per se (for my not being a practitioner, rather than any aversion to it), but no one really ever seemed able to realize the logical conflict in the simultaneous notions that i) God is outside rationality, operating as a fickle, flightly entity, and then ii) that selfsame God would absolutely, postively, archly certainly, never, ever, ever enter the world being born of woman.
I was tempted to ask - since islam's opinion of woman is so low - if it would have been better if she'd been born of man, but never did. I wonder if the denial would have been based on the fallback to rationality, or denied under 'fickle nature'. Who knows?
Geoff
Posted by: Geoff at September 16, 2006 4:21 AM
Once more we are witness to the foot stomping and child like tantrums of the Muslims. Violence is the hallmark of those who are very low in self esteem.
May I add that many Christian leaders have time and again criticized Hinduism, and I as a Hindu feel proud that my religion hasn't been liquidated even after 150 years of British rule in India ?
Posted by: rajagopalan at September 16, 2006 4:22 AM
Gramfan,
Thanks for the link. Yes, the protests marches shall take place in my city today, and news is coming in from several other cities about the protests there.
What I find encouraging is that the newspapers did not criticize the Pope. They merely said that he was quoting a Byzantine emperor. The dailies I read are the largest circulating Hindi and English ones over here, and since they have taken a stand (albeit gingerly) with the Pope, and mentioned "Byzantine" means that lots of people right now are either googling the word, or going to a local library. Some will end up on anti jihad sites like ours. A lot will wake up. His Holiness has made a big move. Now if only he takes a firm stand.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 4:24 AM
The Pope's quote:
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."The Pope did not criticize this quote, so it appears the Pope is condemning Islam as "evil and inhuman".
Let's see if he now backs down in the face of Islamic and Liberal fury, and issues an apology or "clarification". If he does, then woe to the West. If he does not, then il Papa has just stood up and thrown down the gauntlet.
Wonderful.
Posted by: Zeno at September 16, 2006 4:24 AM
Pope Benedict is a relevant figure in present-day Europe. He is identifying and unmasking the enemies of Christianity and of our civilization.
The reactions of the Muslims are only confirming that they are indeed our enemies. They would prefer an irrelevant Pope and the silly talk about 'tolerance'.
Islam is not peaceful and certainly blesses violence. I don't think the muslims can fool anyone anymore by pretending the contrary.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_churches
If it looks like a duck, feels like a duck and smells like a duck... well it is a duck!
Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 4:36 AM
"Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said the pope should explain and "tell us what exactly did he mean. ... It can't just be left like that."Indeed, it can't just be left like that. It will be interesting to see what the Pope says next. Posted by: Zeno
at September 16, 2006 4:36 AM
Pope Benedict is a relevant figure in present-day Europe. He is identifying and unmasking the enemies of Christianity and of our civilization.
The reactions of the Muslims are only confirming that they are indeed our enemies. They would prefer an irrelevant Pope and the silly talk about 'tolerance'.
Islam is not peaceful and certainly blesses violence. I don't think the muslims can fool anyone anymore by pretending the contrary.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_mi_ea/palestinians_churches
If it looks like a duck, feels like a duck and smells like a duck... well it is a duck!
Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 4:36 AM
I just got home and had a look at the Hindi daily. muslims went crazy in the city of Bhopal, Lucknow and Ajmer. In the city of Bhopal women in burkas took out a rally carrying signs that read "Pope ke man mein paap hai, mazhab-e-islam pak hai" (Pope's mind is sinful, islam is sacred). There are also pictures of a rally in Srinagar, in which men with long beards are screaming their heads off. The newspaper itself mentioned that the Pope only repeated the words used by the Byzantine emperor to describe mohammad (no "prophet" was used by the paper), and that islam was spread by the sword, and it is cruel and inhuman.
I feel good.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 5:02 AM
I just got home and had a look at the Hindi daily. muslims went crazy in the city of Bhopal, Lucknow and Ajmer. In the city of Bhopal women in burkas took out a rally carrying signs that read "Pope ke man mein paap hai, mazhab-e-islam pak hai" (Pope's mind is sinful, islam is sacred). There are also pictures of a rally in Srinagar, in which men with long beards are screaming their heads off. The newspaper itself mentioned that the Pope only repeated the words used by the Byzantine emperor to describe mohammad (no "prophet" was used by the paper), and that islam was spread by the sword, and it is cruel and inhuman.
I feel good.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 5:03 AM
What's going on ? I made the comment right above 3 hours back. It never showed up, so I made another that is higher up. Now two of these surface. ? ? ?
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 5:22 AM
Rocky said:
"If it looks like a duck, feels like a duck and
smells like a duck... well it is a duck!"
Yes, but they'd have us believe it's a seagull in a burka.
It's goose is cooked, whatever it is.
Posted by: Xaragma at September 16, 2006 5:24 AM
Easy solution to this problem...
Nuke Mecca and Medina!!! Cut off the head, and the rest is easy.
Then destroy the Al-Aqsa Mosque and build Solomon's temple.
Problem is no-one's got the guts to do it 'cause there's no unity amongst non-muslims. Too many fukking apologists to take care of first.
Have a super weekend, my buddies!
Vikk.
Posted by: Vikk at September 16, 2006 6:09 AM
Reviving the Crusades would not be a bad thing - the Crusades were defensive.
Having said that I hope that the Pope doesn't suffer from his statement. I also hope he doesn't back down but expands on it.
Posted by: CrazyFool at September 16, 2006 6:28 AM
Turkey is accusing Pope of reviving the Crusades.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 16, 2006 6:37 AM
Oh, gosh. Not angry Muslims again! Run for the hills!
I'm just going to keep saying/typing this until it sinks in:
Islam is the Enemy.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 16, 2006 6:47 AM
"In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics."
The only understanding required is to know that Islam is a lie, a fascist ideology of hate, a twisted perversion of Judaism and Christianity and that if we do not stand up to this cult today, we will go to our graves understanding that we have let down our children and grandchildren in a fashion that none of us could bear to live with anyway.
Posted by: Foehammer at September 16, 2006 6:51 AM
May the Pope continue to quote any and all previous texts on islam. All muslims will do, is come right out and prove his point. Eh, nariz?
Posted by: Gary at September 16, 2006 6:55 AM
I guess the guardian newpaper in the UK will follow up with last weeks editorial about how we need Turkey. I guess we will need Turkey even more now? Don't think so.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at September 16, 2006 7:17 AM
"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages"
Not sure if they meant that as a compliment.
Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at September 16, 2006 7:18 AM
PERSON IN THE WORLD ON THE BIG STAGE TO SAY THAT THE KORAN WAS AN EVIL BOOK THAT SAID EVIL THINGS WAS POPE BENEDICT THE SIXTEENTH - HE WAS THE FIRST TO TELL THE WORLD THE FULL TRUTH ABOUT THE KORAN!
I wish this were true; but unfortunately it is not. The pope said nothing of the kind; in reality the pope did not say what his position was in relation to the quote.
Here is the painful reality!
The Vatican spokesman, Federico Lombardi, told Vatican Radio: "It was certainly not the intention of the Holy Father to undertake a comprehensive study of the jihad and of Muslim ideas on the subject, still less to offend the sensibilities of the Muslim faithful."
You faithful Catholics perhaps meaning well, are putting words in your pope's mouth and attributing to him things that are not true.
Don't believe me! Believe your own clergy then, and your pope's representatives in particular!
Father Miguel Ayuso Guixot, head of the Vatican's Pontifical Institute for Arabic and Islamic Studies, told the Guardian he feared the Pope's words had been "misinterpreted". He added: "The Pope has worked tirelessly for inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue and for tolerance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,,1873914,00.html
Now before you well meaning catholics go ballistic on me and start accusing me of being anti-catholic because I don't agree with your assessment of what the pope said, consider this one:
chief Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi in a statement ...
"It is clear that the Holy Father's intention is to cultivate a position of respect and dialogue towards other religions and cultures, and that clearly includes Islam."
No freinds, it is not my "anti-catholic hatred" it is your Vatican's policy!
Frankly, I feel let down. I was hoping that Benedict would clearly come out against islam, but he has not and will not!
And if you are reading more into what Benedict said, that what he actually did say, then you are just as NUTS and as CRAZY as the islamics who are also accusing him of the same lie!
What I was hoping Benedict would say was "Damn islam!" "Damn mohammad!" "May all the immams who praise this devil be consigned to the ever lasting flames of hell!" assuming of course, there is such a place.
If he had said something like that, I might even consider becoming catholic myself!
at September 16, 2006 7:27 AM
should the pope apologise?.
http://mail.google.com/mail/?view=att&realattid=f_es5w3zin&disp=inline&attid=0.1&th=10db64a61bf4efea
at September 16, 2006 7:37 AM
CNN now says that the Pope is "very upset" that his statement has caused such offence.
He will cave.
Posted by: August22 at September 16, 2006 7:42 AM
we are not a violent religion, and we will kill you if you say otherwise.
Posted by: David England at September 16, 2006 7:45 AM
should the pope apologise?.
FOR WHAT!!!????
Is it now a crime to quote from an ancient text that is historically critical of islam???
Now, the pope should not apologise!
The islamics should apologise to him; and so should his own "faithful" who are hell-bent on putting words in his mouth!
The only thing Benedict did was to quote someone elses words; for this, he should apologize?
Respectfully, such a question is also NUTS!
Posted by: witness at September 16, 2006 7:46 AM
All I can say is that it's about time that the Vatican take a stance on the whole jihad thing, because it's a basic moral issue.
Posted by: sanman at September 16, 2006 7:54 AM
The Pope dissed liberalislam's jihadist allies, and The New Duranty Times is offended:
"He needs to offer a deep and persuasive apology"The Pope may be able to endure mere Muslim outrage, but let's see how long he can withstand the united fury of our liberals. Posted by: Zeno
at September 16, 2006 8:14 AM
Well I guess it's all academic now as the Pope has apologised.
Pope 'sorry' for offence to Islam
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5351988.stm
Didn't take long, did it...
Posted by: Humbug at September 16, 2006 8:23 AM
Letter sent to Pope Benedict today 9/16/2006:
Holy Father,
Thank you for your recent lecture in which you rightfully quoted the truth of Islam.
Your words are true, and the quote you used is well founded and accurate, as you well know.
Having the courage to state the truth and STAND BEHIND IT is a RAY OF LIGHT & HOPE to ALL CHRISTIANS.
NON-VIOLENCE is truly the answer. We stand behind you.
Just one reference from you - just one - even just using a quote, albeit truthful and accurate, and the Muslim world goes off the hook.
After all the violence perpetrated by Islamic Jihadists against innocent people the world over for the past 1000 years, the many videos by so called 'religious leaders' of the Religion of Peace calling for the complete annihilation of the 'west' - the reaction seen around the world in response to your one lecture reveals:
1. People are listening to you, Holy Father. Not only Christians, but all others.
2. The response from Islam is a full demonstration of their intolerance for any statement revealing the true nature of their belief system (not religion).
3. Your courage to make the allusion to the set of discourses in a university setting. The Muslim moderates say they want to have an open discussion - but I think not. They simply want a venue to say what they really think, and play themselves to be misunderstood victims. Look at the streets in New Delhi, Turkey, etc. They have chosen that as their venue, and are acting out the very reactionary and violence they say is not their way.
Again, Holy Father, hear my plea - Do Not BACK DOWN! We all know you have a spine made of steel. We know you will continue to espouse the Holy Trinity and non-violence. Please continue to make the distinctions you have made, and stand for the message of our Lord Jesus Christ.
While it may incite violence from the Muslims, you will be in the right - preaching the non-violent way of Love.
As you can see, words and ideas are at the heart of this issue, and you have chosen well.
Thank you and God Bless You.
William A. Fulbright
- a very concerned Roman Catholic
--
Bill Fulbright
Sam Adams wrote:
If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest
lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
at September 16, 2006 8:35 AM
al Reuters now says: "Pope sorry for remarks"
...but is he really? here's the statement the Vatican issued, according to Reuters:
"Confirming his respect and esteem for those who profess the Islamic faith, he (the Pope) hopes they will be helped to understand his words in their true sense."...apparently that's ALL the Vatican statement says. So the Pope is "Confirming his respect and esteem for those who profess the Islamic faith...", but NOT for Islam -- he still respects and esteems the poor misguided sinners enslaved by Islam, but he says nothing about respecting or esteeming Islam. Then he goes on to say that he hopes they "will be helped to understand his words in their true sense." The true sense of his words, as I understand them, are meant to reject violence in the name of religion, since "not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature" (from the Pope's speech).
So the Pope hopes poor misguided Muslims will be helped to understand why violence in the name of Islam is wrong.
No Papal cave.
Yet.
Posted by: Zeno at September 16, 2006 8:45 AM
Whoops -- that should be:
So the Pope hopes poor misguided Muslims will be helped to understand why violence in the name of [strike]Islam[/strike] religion is wrong.
Big difference!
Posted by: Zeno at September 16, 2006 8:55 AM
Whoops again -- actual text of Vatican statement here.
The Pope caves.
Posted by: Zeno at September 16, 2006 9:27 AM
"he hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words"
Posted by: alwaysinfidel at September 16, 2006 9:42 AM
rajagopalan:
We are all in this fight together now. I never understood when I was a kid why there were Indians I'd meet who were absolutely lovely wonderful people and then I'd meet Indians who behaved in a most despicable way.. NOW I realize the "bad" ones were Muftis. Makes sense since I never met ANY Pakistanis I liked. The "bad" Indians were simply the "spiritual brethren" of the Pakistanis. And we know all about them!
To the rest of India: we are with you and we are just beginning to feel your pain.
Posted by: germaninamerica at September 16, 2006 1:59 PM
It seems to me that most Muslims don't accept the fact that Christianity and Islam do contradict each other, are mutually exclusive and contain doctrines and beliefs that will offend the other. They don't seem to understand it is the job of the Pope to uphold Christian Doctrine even if those doctrines offend them.
For example ALL Christians DO NOT accept Mohammed as a Prophet of God. Therefore it is impossible for Christians to show respect to Mohammed in the way Muslims want.
They (Muslims that is) assume that because they have a Prophet mentioned in the Koran called Isa ibn Maryam who shares some vague characteristics with Jesus that they are showing respect for Christianity and Jesus; while at the same time accusing Christians of blasphemy and rejecting both the divinity of Christ and the crucifixion. (Both core beliefs of Christianity the last time I checked).
It seems to me that Muslims want the West and Christianity to defer to them without reciprocating true respect for either Western Secular values or Traditional Christian beliefs.
at September 16, 2006 2:05 PM
arjun.sevak,
Your post appears MANY times. I'm wondering if JW & DW are under DOS attacks; I had a very hard time getting onto either one today.
Or maybe.....traffic has increased and people are flocking to find sources of info after this new Religion of Perpetual Outrage flap?
Posted by: Vee at September 16, 2006 2:17 PM
Word to a friend Henry: Even though you feel a need to emphasize or shout, don't type in all caps, all caps are unreadable (for some reason). Might I suggest that you embolden text.. To bold text in html merely type {b}bold this text{/b} but rather than using the { } marks use hash marks the upper case marks b over the comma and period on your keyboard. If I type them into this site, they will not appear on the display. bold this space you can do the same thing with italics using i instead of b.. e.g. italics this space combine the two bold and italics this space
Posted by: Nariz at September 16, 2006 4:07 PM
>>>>arjun.sevak,
Your post appears MANY times. I'm wondering if JW & DW are under DOS attacks; I had a very hard time getting onto either one today.
Or maybe.....traffic has increased and people are flocking to find sources of info after this new Religion of Perpetual Outrage flap?
Posted by: Vee
I had trouble getting back here late last night (morning in the US).
Vee I think you are right here. I couldn't get past the typekey page:(((
From what I have seen on the news here today they are saying the Pope is "upset" about what happened after he read his quote. The newsreader went on to say "he stopped short of a full apology". I hope that is right!
I think the mo's were just waiting and watching for another excuse to express outrage, victimhood, racism and islamophobia.
Possibly it didn't matter what the Pope said. Just the mere mention of islam without singing it's "praises" - ICK - was enough.
Good: let them do more of this and show the west what they are made of. Let's hope no one gets hurt as the Pope's life has been threatened.
ROP - yeah right!
at September 16, 2006 5:46 PM
There isn't much to say that hasn't already been said before.
The Pope says that Islam is a violent religion and what do the ragheads do? They go out and call for violence, riots and death to the Pope. They just proved his point about violence.
Like I always say, "Don't pay attention to what a man says, but pay attention to what he does!"
The ragheads are violent primitives and the only think they understand and respect is force. So let's give them some of our old nukes, we can transport them by B1 bombers, B2 bombers, B52s and cruise missiles.
Posted by: ranger2 at September 17, 2006 12:03 AM
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