The Pope will issue an apology. You'll hear the usual "we respect islam, religion of peace, blah, blah, blah,....

Bet on it.

Posted by: ranoir at September 16, 2006 8:39 AM

Please see my Letter to Pope Beneduct XVI in the
September 15th Blog post:

"Muslim anger over papal comments grows"

Posted by: alert-up-usa at September 16, 2006 8:42 AM

As per Muslim scholars this last (chronological) chapter on the Koran is the final word re the Muslim and his attitude to the unbeliever. It mandates violence against the unbeliever. People get it. Islam is not a religion of peace. To believe otherwise is deception, self-deception or ignorance. The facts are the facts.

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=HolKora.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=9&division=div1

Posted by: Frank at September 16, 2006 8:49 AM

The Vatican spokesperson made the comment in the wake of criticism from some Muslim circles over the Speech that the Pope gave on Tuesday at the University of Regensburg.

'What is at the Pope's heart,' said Father Lombardi, 'is a clear and radical refusal of the religious motivation of violence.'

Here is the link:

Indian Catholic - http://www.theindiancatholic.com/newsread.asp?nid=3429

Indian Catholic reproduces the Papal discourse that has turned controversial.

Posted by: alert-up-usa at September 16, 2006 8:50 AM

Oh well, I really didn't want to go to mass every Sunday anyway.

Kidding aside, this is very disappointing. Although it does prove the point this sight has been making all along. Insinuate that Muslums are violent and they react with violence. I still don't understand why people can't see Islam for what it is.

Don

Posted by: Don at September 16, 2006 8:50 AM

Muslims are offended by the truth. Islam mandates violence against unbelievers as per the final words on the matter noted above. To deny this obvious truth is contemptible.

Posted by: Frank at September 16, 2006 8:55 AM

I figured as much........this pope is going to have to face the truth; islam will NOT be mollified about anything.

They HATE the pope going back to the 'crusades' which they speciously regard as the beginning of islamic wars. The islamic conquest of Christianity really began before Muhammed was room temperature in his grave. You can look it up.

If I were the pope, I would get a bomb proof limo, stat.

Posted by: n.a. palm at September 16, 2006 8:57 AM

Perhaps the Vicar of Christ will crawl on his knees in front of an assemblage of Muslim clergy to atone for his blasphemy, but I doubt that such an action would be judged sufficient.

If the Pope were seized and beheaded in St. Peter's Square, I don't think anything would happen other than the construction of the usual ad hoc memorials of flowers, children's drawings, and, of course, teddy bears.

The West is dead. We must welcome our new Muslim overlords.

Posted by: Norseman at September 16, 2006 8:57 AM

In German, the Pope is reported by FAZ as probably having used the verb "bedauern" - "to regret". Which is something else again from being "sorry" and "upset".

„Der Heilige Vater bedauert sehr, daß einige Passagen seiner Rede für Muslime beleidigend geklungen haben könnten“, teilte der Kardinal-Staatssekretär Tarcisio Bertone in einer Erklärung mit."

http://tinyurl.com/zmm54

Posted by: halldor at September 16, 2006 8:59 AM

reposted from thread below, quote from article below

'the pope's position on Islam was unmistakably in line with Vatican teaching that the Church "esteems Muslims, who adore the only God."'

If one person says, "I know John, he is 6', 33, a lawyer, and has brown hair and blue eyes," and someone else says, "I know John, he is 5'4", 65, a retired fire-fighter, is naturally bald and has green-eyes," then the two are most-likely talking about two different people.

As an atheist, I've said it before, but the Christian god and Muslim god are two different gods. The religions ascribe to their gods entirely different charactaristics. They are mutually incompatible. You can't have a god of "love your neighbor as you love yourself" and "As you do to the least of your brothers, you do unto me" be the same god who says, "kill for me and get 72 virgins."

Muslims know this, they do not beleive that Jesus Christ was the son of god. Their god did not send his son to die for our sins. I was taught in Catholic school that my god did send his son to die for us on the cross. That belief lies at the very heart of Catholic doctrine, and yet the Vatican wants to paper it over because of fear of Islamic bed-wetting.

O.K. and Islamic bombers, too.

Posted by: ryoga at September 16, 2006 9:02 AM

Thus far, the Pope said he's sorry that the Muslims are upset, which is not the same as saying sorry for the contents of the statements. The Muslims are essentially asking him to apologize for (allegedly) making a false statement, and I doubt that the Pope will bend that far.

Posted by: Archimedes at September 16, 2006 9:05 AM

The Pope should not be sorry for telling the obvious truth. He sought a dialogue on the subject of violence to get people to convert to a religion that is contrary to a just God.

Unfortunately he ends up getting a violent response from Muslims which is what most of us could have predicted here on Jihadwatch. It will be just a short matter of time before we will see reports of the first deaths over his comments as the usual clerics whip their flocks into frenzies as they did during the cartoon controversy.

There will be as usual no calm, and objective discussion over the Popes comments and they will respond to his comments with their all to often violent behavior and most will have not even read what the Pope actually said.

Any provocation will do when it comes to criticism of Islam. No doubt some cleric,iman, or sheik will even go as far as to issue a fatwa against the Pope for even daring to comment on Islam.

Posted by: Mackie at September 16, 2006 9:07 AM

Does he believe in the message of Christ? Does he believe that the message of Christ has informed Western Civilization? Does he see the need, the desperate need to sever jihad from islam? If so, regardless of offense, then he must return to this topic again, and again, and again. If he is serious about restoring a Catholic, a Christian soul to Europe, then he'll have to return to this topic.

But if he's ready to make his peace with a "new Europe," where the Church returns to the Catacombs, then he'll just spend the rest of his tenure making articulate speeches about issues not very important to Europeans.

He can be substantial, significant, or he can be a time server. He can be like Shakespeare's Henry V, who said he would "show my sail of greatness and rouse me in my throne of France...," or he can spend the rest of his tenure pondering the dark clouds that overstretch his homeland, and doing nothing about it.

Lastly, and this is important, IT WASN'T JUST THE MUSLIMS THAT FORCED THIS RHETORICAL CAPITULATION, rest assured, EVERY FOREIGN MINISTRY IN Europe was on the phone DEMANDING the Pope back off of his comments, and what's more, DEMANDING THAT ANY SUCH CAMPAIGN OF SEVERANCE OF JIHAD FROM ISLAM cease forthwith.

AND OUR OWN STATE DEPARTMENT WAS NO DOUBT demanding him to stop, lest by his statements our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan become more precarious.

THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLES OF THE WEST demanded the Pope step back, and it was probably that, which brought forth these pusillanimous statements.

Posted by: Dan at September 16, 2006 9:11 AM

If he was looking for an easy Pontificate, then he should have refused the job point blank. Remember, when a Pope is elected, it's not obligatory that the one elected ACCEPT the job. By tradition, a Cardinal comes up to the guy elected, and asks if he accepts, {accepto} or declines to accept, {non accepto}. Giussepe Siri refused in the election that finally went to Paul VI.

If he didn't feel himself equal to the vast challenges that he knew, MORE THAN ANYBODY else, were incumbent on the next pope, then he should have declined.

We're in a civilizational battle, the Church is at the heart of that battle, especially for Europe, he can no more dodge this one, than we could dodge the Second World War.

He should say "screw it," and come out blasting. Point out the appeasement demands from the European governments, point out to ordinary Europeans that their governments are involved in a censorship effort against the Vicar of Christ on earth, point out the consequences of the islamicification of Europe, point out the historical horrors strewn throughout the history of islam. Let 'er rip.

Posted by: Dan at September 16, 2006 9:18 AM

The proper way to apologize would be to regret any offended feeings, but not to regret the essential message, which is very valuable.
But let's face it, the Muslims are just looking for an excuse to violently vent their hatred and intimidate the Infidels. Makes 'em feel big and powerful, yip, yip.

Posted by: jewdog at September 16, 2006 9:20 AM

For Christs sake, why can't the West ever demand apologies from the Muslims? It seems they can say and do whatever they want.

That worthless Muslim bastard that said that the Pope will go down in history as another Hitler because of what he said, ought to apologize. We should demand that. MANY Muslims should apologize.

Posted by: XY at September 16, 2006 9:24 AM

"the Pope appeared to endorse a Christian view"

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1999376,00.html

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at September 16, 2006 9:26 AM

Also, "bestürzt" - if that's the word the Pope used - doesn't really mean "upset", but rather "taken aback", or "shocked".

Posted by: halldor at September 16, 2006 9:26 AM

"9.5": "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

It looks like the Pope has been ambushed. But if he acts like a good dhimmi the mentally ill will give him a break.

Posted by: Frank at September 16, 2006 9:46 AM

The Catholic church is a highly diplomatic entity. They may fall back for a while, but the fact that the comment was issued, is in itself enormous. The reaction, furthermore, already stresses the real meaning of this whole situation. A tactical retreat, if it happens, will be performed with utmost ambiguity. And it will only lead to further efforts to demonstrate Islamic intolerance.

Besides, Catholic media in Italy have already begun an incredible and absolutely new anti-Islamic campaign. Subtly.

Patience is a virtue.

Posted by: roguereligion at September 16, 2006 9:58 AM

"he hopes they will be helped to understand the correct meaning of his words"

Posted by: alwaysinfidel at September 16, 2006 10:11 AM

MUSLIMS are Hipocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!
ISLAM is a lie from satan, intended to deceive people from the truth, which is JESUS CHRIST, and so destroy those people who believe the lie!!!!!!!!!!!

Nuff said.

Posted by: DiscipleofJesusChrist at September 16, 2006 10:18 AM

Cardinal Bertone (second day on the job) released a statement (read it on my CatholicReport.org website) that Pope Benedict "regrets" any offense taken by Muslims. I am sure Cardinal Bertone is receiving all kinds of calls for a clarification from besieged Catholic clergy in the Muslim world. The words "sorry" don't appear. Pope Benedict is simply saying he regrets some found those words offensive. The statement is a reinteration of Catholic Church teaching. This was an attempt to give some cover to besieged Christians in the Muslim world. It does not say the pope is sorry or asks for forgiveness.

Posted by: Dave at September 16, 2006 10:29 AM

Rogue, could you give us some more details about that campaign in the Italian media?

I hope you're right.

It's difficult to be patient.

I'm with XY, why aren't our leaders demanding apologies for 9/11, for Beslan, for Madrid, for the various skyjackings, for having to pour HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS into security for any international athletic endeavor, all to protect ourselves from "terrorists." But in fact, everybody knows who we're trying to protect ourselves against, muslims. Why aren't apologies being demanded for every outrage perpetuated by muslims over the last several decades.

What the hell is the West waiting for? They need a fricken invitation, they got one, it was delivered on September 11th.

When has "mainstream" islam ever apologized to the West for anything?

I don't know of any such apologies, can anyone recall any?

Posted by: Dan at September 16, 2006 11:43 AM

The Saudis take a break from persecuting religious minorities to comment....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1157913640650&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

They're not violent, just angry, ok?

http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,21985,20426263-5005961,00.html

Posted by: Mr Krabs at September 16, 2006 1:21 PM

It seems that everyone is missing the truth, the Pope knows it, he told us all. Now the devil people, I E the Muslims, want an apogee, I say go strait to Gahanna, all of you Muslims, spawn of the devil. They want a fire storm, I say we give them one, about 6.000 degrees. With a 600 mile hour wind.
Your Muhammad is a lie, your lie is out in the open, and all the killing will only seal your fate.
How does it feel now that the world knows, the only apologue you will get from me, "FRACK YOU"
Muslims are the serge of the earth, they rank right up their with the Black Death of the dark ages.
It has already started, soon killing Muslims will be like killing a skunk. It has to be done, I used to worry about them.
But now I laugh at you Mohamed, may a camel caravan take a rest stop in your devil mouth.
Everyone needs to watch Obsession the movie, then you will see the truth.

Posted by: ironkitten at September 16, 2006 1:23 PM

It is interesting to note that Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran in order to walk down the path of reconciliation with Islam. What steps will Pope Benedict XVI now be willing to take in light of the recent furor created by statements he made that outraged Islamic leaders?
find the pope’s speech fascinating. He was simply expressing facts of history by quoting from an Islamic source.

However, don’t expect Benedict XVI to initiate a “new trend” that would confront the Islamic world. I would suggest that the controversy created by Pope Benedict’s remarks will only facilitate further dialogue between Islam and the Roman Catholic Church.

There are two reasons why I can make such a prediction.

First, the Roman Catholic Catechism states:

841
The Church’s relationship with Muslims.
"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst who are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day. [6]"
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, (Liberia Editrice Vaticana, Liguoria Publications, Liguoria, MO), 222.)

The Roman Catholic Church supports the idea that the God of Islam is the God of Catholicism. Certainly this view would be a common denominator for the cause of peace.

Second, there is a common fascination with Mary the mother of Jesus by both Islam and the Roman Catholic Church. This will be a second great reason to bring Catholicism and Islam closed together.

While the pope’s current remarks seem to be divisive, I would suggest time will show the pope and the Catholic Church will soon make amends with Muslims.

Watch for a closer unity of Roman Catholicism and Islam in the future.

This “peaceful” unified religion will be in the name of Christ but it will be anti-Christian.
RO

Posted by: bondservant at September 16, 2006 1:28 PM

Muslims need to understand....the pope's comments were in German. The words, "evil", "inhuman", and "sword" were mistranslated from the original German text. So you must know German in order to understand what he truly meant!

No, waitaminute....the pope was actually translating comments from a 14th-century Byzantine emperor. So now, you must know emperor Manuel II Paleologus' language (whatever that was) to know what HE truly meant!

//taking page from Muslims' Arabic-only playbook

Posted by: yadayada at September 16, 2006 1:49 PM

The Coptic Pope -- the one held hostage by the Muslims of Egypt, subject to their pressures, aware of the potential for mayhem and murder visited upon the Copts by Muslims at any time -- has denounced the Pope of Rome. We understand this. We understand that he is held hostage, and we dismiss these remarks even as we now dismiss the Michel Sabbaghs and Naim Ateeks and other "Palestinian" islamochristians who, out of internalized fear, and also in some cases a misplaced identification of "Uruba" or "Arabness" with Islam (an identification that Muslim Arabs insist on forcing on everyone who uses Arabic, and only the Maronites and the Copts, and not even all of them, have refused to fall for this aggrandizing and false definition of "Arab").

But here's the point. What if a world fearful and confused, and with those whose duty it is to instruct us unable to instruct us out of that fear and confusion or, still worse, out of a diseased sympathy for Muslims, a belief that we should not tell the truth about Islam but try only to "win hearts and minds" of Muslims by lying to ourselves, as well as to them, about the nature of Islam -- when the evidence is not only in the texts, not only in the 1350 years of Jihad-conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims, but in the behavior of Muslims, mobs and rulers, clerics and generals and political figures and so-called "intellectuals," alike, all over the world.

No. The bullying, the fear for how murderous Muslims may take out their anger on helpless Christians within the Muslim lands (knowing full well, as they do, that nothing will be done -- not even expulsiion -- to Muslims in Dar al-Islam), must not be allowed to hamper discussion. Nor should leaders -- or anyone in the Western world, or anywhere in the Lands of the Infidels -- be inhibited one whit by the attempts to silence or force apologies and implied obeisance (and of course some kind of implied promise "not to do that again")from the Pope.

Learn from the Pope, if you are a Christian.
Learn from Oriana Fallaci, if you are not.
Learn from Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina, if you were born into Islam and know there is something terribly wrong with it as a belief-system, but don't quite -- out of a tangle of confused emotions, including contempt for much of what the infidel world offers, and filial piety -- know what to do.

Posted by: Hugh at September 16, 2006 1:49 PM

The papacy needs to grow its balls back. Jesus was no apologist: He called evil “evil.” The papacy’s inaction against the non-religion Islam for the last half a century has allowed a scourge to invade our lands. It also allowed deception to continue unchallenged. The papacy must proclaim, “Down with Mohammad’s monarchy! Down with the Umma! Down with Islam!”

How sad it has come to this. All throughout Europe, including in England and France, there are now foreign people who inhabit land as occupiers: Muslim areas that are no-go zones. Then they complain why they are so economically disadvantaged, after importing the Arab world into civilization.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183

Alas, we are heading straight into a Lebanese World War:

http://www.cedarland.org/war.html

Posted by: ofcourse at September 16, 2006 1:53 PM

I think that the Pope succeeded in sending a clear message.
Apologies or not.
He has changed the situation, the West is no longer silent nor "America-GreatBritain-Australia" only.

Posted by: POITIERS-LEPANTO at September 16, 2006 1:53 PM

Another Apology from Turkey, via national newspaper "Hürriyet".
Columnist Mehmet Yilmaz criticized türkish protesters that they should first read the full speech by the pope, and then put his quotations into context.
Minister of Religion, Ali Bardakoglu, who yesterday sharply criticized the remarks from the pope, today had to admit that he had not read the speech. Now he will get the whole speech translated from the German.

Posted by: cosmicAvenger at September 16, 2006 1:54 PM

Ok, the Pope hurt their feelings, so sad. Now we have "demands" made buy 3rd world masses on a symbol and the Leader of the Catholic Church. I got it. I understand the anger. How dare the Pope use a quote and not have it cleared first by the muslim equivalent of trailer trash.

I totally understand the worldwide anger. What I don’t understand is why they are not making demands on sunni muslims who kill shia and shia muslims who kill sunnis. How can the words of one man cause more anger than the carnage they cause themselves? The simple answer is they are afraid to complain and make demands on other muslims, it is easier to cower and hope they kill others in your community and skip over you. No doubt they also drop dimes on neighbors and relatives in a futile attempt to draw attention away from themselves. Left alone they are far more of a danger to themselves than the entire western world. If I were a muslim I would be ashamed to complain about words in a speech when my people slaughter themselves. It is time you muslims reset your priorities.

Posted by: Ronin at September 16, 2006 1:55 PM

bondservant:
ou mentioned that: Watch for a closer unity of Roman Catholicism and Islam in the future.

Allow me to disagree:
Some lucid and committed non PC writers like Anne-Marie Delcambre have pointed out the same.
But there are many Catholic theologians, like Hilaire Belloc, who very clearly stated that islam is a heresy, not a real religion.
And many present-day Catholics lean towards these thinkers, especially since present-day islam goes from one violent act to the other in order to draw attention upon itself.

The truth is that in Catholic circles Islam is known more for violent actions than for constructyive work. So by mentioning God or the Virgin Mary the Muslims don't fool anyone.

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 1:59 PM

I wonder if Muhammad was still alive today, whether he would rule Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, and most other Muslim countries better than their current dictators. What do you think?

Posted by: ofcourse at September 16, 2006 2:00 PM

By the way what the Pope said:
„Der Heilige Vater bedauert sehr, daß einige Passagen seiner Rede für Muslime beleidigend geklungen haben könnten“
roughly translates as:
"The Holy father regrets that certain parts of his talk could have sounded offensive for Muslims..."
Which puts the ball on the Muslim court for being so whiny.

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 2:04 PM

There's a world of difference between 'sorry' and 'taken aback' or 'shocked'.

Back when the MSM was rooting for the more progressive candidates, I think I remember them deriding this pope as being a rigid enforcer of traditional teachings.

Lets hope it was more than spin.

Posted by: limes at September 16, 2006 2:04 PM

ofcourse:

Present day societies, even in the Arab world, are infinitely more complex that the ancient Qureishi tribal society.

He had his time and his place. Now there would be others who would put him off and in some of those societies now, thanks to modern Civil Codes (adopted in Egypt for example after Napoleon) child abuse would be persecuted.

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 2:08 PM

About the campaign on Catholic media. I am referring to radios controlled by the Catholic church. These radios are usually absolutely multicultural, bent towards appeasement, and hypertolerant.

I have heard distinct reference to an "Islamic threat" and even "trial from God", in two distinct occasions, just parsing through channels while driving, and the comments where being made by priests as well.

Posted by: roguereligion at September 16, 2006 2:08 PM

I'm sorry guys, but it really is as bad as it seems. Cardinal Bertone's full remarks can be read here:

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/18815.php?index=18815&po_date=16.09.2006&lang=en#TRADUZIONE%20IN%20LINGUA%20INGLESE

Here's the *real* relevant passage:

"As for the opinion of the Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus which he quoted during his Regensburg talk, the Holy Father did not mean, nor does he mean, to make that opinion his own in any way."

So no, the Pope isn't apologizing for his remarks. What he had instead done is that the "conservative" interpretation of his speech is wrong. The Pope does not share JihadWatch's opinions vis-a-vis Muhammad and Islam.

I feel so let down.

Posted by: DominvsVobiscvm at September 16, 2006 2:11 PM

It is important to remember that the Pope does not speak for every Christian. Quite a while ago, there was something called the reformation. Many groups understood then that the Roman church had left the historical and Scriptural doctrines of the early church, so they left it and began meeting in their own groups. Down from the early church also came the Baptists and many others who are not protestants, but diligently clung to the traditional teachings of the church as given by the scripture, not the words or traditions of church leaders.

I am really sad that the Pope issued an apology. Instead, he should have issued a challenge to Muslims to begin proving they are peaceful. Show us that they can live side by side with people who do not share their vision of god. Somehow we have managed to leave in the dusty past the practice of killing those who would not convert to Christ; hopefully Muslims will get there as well.

Also, it bothers me to see posters talk about killing Muslims. I don't wish to kill anyone. Rather we should be praying that the liberty of the gospel of Christ can set the prisoners of Islam free, as we have been made free by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 16, 2006 2:12 PM

It seems to me that most Muslims don't accept the fact that Christianity and Islam do contradict each other, are mutually exclusive and contain doctrines and beliefs that will offend the other. They don't seem to understand it is the job of the Pope to uphold Christian Doctrine even if those doctrines offend them.

For example ALL Christians DO NOT accept Mohammed as a Prophet of God. Therefore it is impossible for Christians to show respect to Mohammed in the way Muslims want.

They (Muslims that is) assume that because they have a Prophet mentioned in the Koran called Isa ibn Maryam who shares some vague characteristics with Jesus that they are showing respect for Christianity and Jesus; while at the same time accusing Christians of blasphemy and rejecting both the divinity of Christ and the crucifixion. (Both core beliefs of Christianity the last time I checked).

It seems to me that Muslims want the West and Christianity to defer to them without reciprocating true respect for either Western Secular values or Traditional Christian beliefs.

Posted by: Swiss Tony at September 16, 2006 2:14 PM

The muslims are, by their actions, proving that Islam is indeed a violent religion, and that muslims are violent.(And exceedingly arrogant, as well as insecure, the arrogance of the muslim is a product of his insecurity and justifiable sense of inferiority, his arrogance, violence and blustering are mechanism by which he compensates for his inferiority).

Muslims are demanding that the Pope be physically punished (i.e. killed) for insulting their pedophile pseudo prophet.

They have firebombed churches in Nablus today.

And the Imam in charge at Georgetown, University has stated that the Papal apologies are not enough.

Despite the obvious fact that the actions and reactions of the Muslims are proof that Islam is a religion of terror and violence that is spread by the sword, I fully expect B16 to prostrate himself in front of and personally apologize and beg forgiveness of the Muslims, thus passing to them a very, very important victory in the jihad, the supplication and diminution, the subordination of the Catholic Church to Islam.

That he said "I regret" or anyother turn of phrase is disappointing, and that he felt he had to apologize or regret to Muslims is proof that terrorism works.

How much more proof is needed.

Posted by: Nariz at September 16, 2006 2:16 PM

An academic lecture is to be censored for political reasons? This censorship enforced by violence, threats and intimidation?
Where have we heard this before? Sounds familiar...I do remember something like this from school history lessons..what was it now...something like the truth censorship...can't remember...something about you can't tell the truth and history is to be rewritten...what was it now...can't speak the truth if it's against a certain political agenda...I wish I could remember what it was...

Posted by: EnglishBlondie at September 16, 2006 2:24 PM

I guarantee most of those dumbass protesters don't even know that the hell did POPE said. Most of them didn't even hear his speech or can even understand english or whatever language POPE was speaking in!
The Madrassas told them that "pope said this and lets go burn some shit!! because we are muslims and we can do anything to the westerners, even the POPE, and get away with it.

Posted by: vonbueren at September 16, 2006 2:38 PM

What the hell is the West waiting for? They need a fricken invitation, they got one, it was delivered on September 11th.

Posted by: Dan at September 16, 2006 11:43 AM

Dan,

By now, the west should have realized that their leaders are NOT leaders. They are career politicians who have come to office, not as statesmen but as a politicians. What is worse is like Dubya, who uses the office to persecute Americans and dance to his wealthy wahabbi master's tunes, the "leaders" won't think twice before selling the people who elected them. In other words, by electing the "leaders" west has, western civilization has signed it's own death warrant.

Posted by: Alert at September 16, 2006 2:40 PM

The truth has a way of spreading under its own power. Have any of you ever seen a non muslim point a muslim out of a crowd and exclaim “there goes a faithful follower of a peaceful religion?”

Posted by: Ronin at September 16, 2006 2:42 PM

MUSLIMS are Hipocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!
ISLAM is a lie from satan, intended to deceive people from the truth, which is JESUS CHRIST, and so destroy those people who believe the lie!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: DiscipleofJesusChrist at September 16, 2006 10:18 AM

Worse, muslims are barbaric killers, as prescribed by their 'holy book', that urges every 'good muslim' to wage jihad aganst non-muslims. Put simply, there is the 'Umma' and the 'unbelievers'.

Posted by: Alert at September 16, 2006 2:43 PM

bondservant: "Watch for a closer unity of Roman Catholicism and Islam in the future."

"This “peaceful” unified religion will be in the name of Christ but it will be anti-Christian."

Your post isn't the first time I've seen this conspiracy theory. I can tell you right now that some "Reformist" Christians' theology is so anti-Catholic that they are blinded to history. Ever hear of Lepanto and the Siege of Vienna? The spirit of those heroes is still alive amongst Catholics. It's the same spirit of the Cristeros and the Carlists during the Spanish civil war. Even if the hierarchy goes PC, we will not forget our duty to the Catholic Church's consistent teachings over the centuries. We have to defend the remnants of Christendom.

Posted by: M. Joseph at September 16, 2006 2:51 PM

vonbueren,
Right that is the foundation of islam: don't use your brain, just let yourself be manipulated by the imam next door.
Islam and intelligence,as rational enquiry, are at odds, like M. Houellebecq pointed out (and went through a court case because of this.)

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 3:01 PM

Stand Fast:

There's very little that is Biblical or "Traditional" in Protestant Christianity, save for the elemtns these churches have retained from Catholicism.

Unless by "Traditional" you mean elements from various pre-Reformation heresies, like the Gnostics, or even Muslims themselves.

For "Traditional" Christianity, look at the churches which actually have verifiable roots and succession from the Apostolic churches: Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, et al. These churches are nearly identicial in their doctrine, and bear little to no resemblance to the Protestant Christianity invented in the 16th century out of thin air.

Posted by: DominvsVobiscvm at September 16, 2006 3:02 PM

Well my dear Rocky when RCC Canon states Muslims and the RC worship the same "god" that is the foundation of heresy and error. RC allows that "Allah" and the God of the Bible are one and the same. They state the "plan of salvation" is for all who acknowledge the "creator" , huh ? I don't see anything in there about the atoning death of Jesus on the Cross as the "way" to salvation. Which is the cornerstone of "salvaton". On the contrary Islam teaches "god" has NO son ! So how can the RC state Islam and the RCC worship the same god ? The Bible states if you deny the Son you den the Father. And without Christ as your savior one is dead in his sins. Yet the RCC say all who "acknowledge the "creator" ( I guess that's AA speak for "god as you precieve him) are in the 'plan of salvation'.........So actually the RCC is leading Muslim folks to hell by telling them they are within God's plan of salvation by worshipping "Allah", even though they vehemently state Allah has no son, and Jesus was merely a prophet.
There will be much hand holding and "coming together" in the future, there will be a "well we have more in common, same god, same belief in "mary", Abraham, then we have differences"...stay tuned......and kumbaya

Posted by: bondservant at September 16, 2006 3:04 PM

ROCKY,

thanks. well said!!

Posted by: vonbueren at September 16, 2006 3:07 PM

bondservant: "Well my dear Rocky when RCC Canon states Muslims and the RC worship the same "god" that is the foundation of heresy and error. RC allows that "Allah" and the God of the Bible are one and the same."

Let me quote the authority on this site, Robert Spencer, from his own book "Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics," co written with Daniel Ali, a convert from Islam.

Q: Doesn't the Catechism of the Catholic Church teach that all religions (including Muslims) worship the one true God to a greater or lesser degree?

A: Not precisely. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that "[t]he plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day" (CCC 841).

This is a carefully worded statement that warrants close examination.

"The first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham." This statement is not saying that Muslims actually believe in Abraham's faith, bt only that they profess to hold the faith of Abraham. Professin and possessing are two different things: for example, there are certainly many more Christians who profess Christ than are people who actually live for Him.

"Together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." Again, this statement is very carefully worded; it does not say that Muslims adore the same merciful God, but only that, like us, "they adore the one merciful God." Strictly speaking, the Catechism simply does not address the question of whether Allah, as worshipped in Islam, is truly the same God revealed in the Old and New Testaments. It should be noted, however, that Pope John Paul II, commenting on this same Catechism citation, indicated in his May 5, 1999 general audience that Muslims and Christians beleive in the same God (www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2muslm.htm). (Note: John Paul II was not giving infallible teaching at this general audience.)

Also, Spencer wrote in that book, "To be unwilling to bring the Gospel of Christ to Muslims would be to fail to acknowledge its uniqueness and power. Those who invoke the Catechsim must also reckon with the fact that in the Catechism itself the Church is 'urged on by the love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world.'"

What, then is Pope Benedict's thinking on the subject. One would need to look no further than "Dominus Iesus," the Vatican document that came out under his leadership when he was a cardinal.

"Certainly, the various religious traditions contain and offer religious elements which come from God, and which are part of what “the Spirit brings about in human hearts and in the history of peoples, in cultures, and religions”. Indeed, some prayers and rituals of the other religions may assume a role of preparation for the Gospel, in that they are occasions or pedagogical helps in which the human heart is prompted to be open to the action of God. One cannot attribute to these, however, a divine origin or an ex opere operato salvific efficacy, which is proper to the Christian sacraments. Furthermore, it cannot be overlooked that other rituals, insofar as they depend on superstitions or other errors (cf. 1 Cor 10:20-21), constitute an obstacle to salvation."

Posted by: M. Joseph at September 16, 2006 3:17 PM

Vonbueren,

For many catholics Islam is a despicable heresy and Muhammad an impostor.

Some conciliatory PC catholics don't represent the view of most catholocs, especially since even those RCs are aware that Muslims are not corresponding their goodwill. Nobody, I guarantee you can be so naive.

They know that islam has come to devour and destroy.
The present day Pope is trying to do away with naivety and illusions about islam.

there will be no Kumbaya.

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 3:33 PM

Many of you are "chomping at the bit" to criticize the Pope for anything.

First, many of you criticize him for not saying enough... Now, those same people criticize him for an apology he did not give.

Seems like whatever he does, it’s not good enough for many of you....

I guess it’s easy for many of you to criticize the only religious leader speaking out about islam to a world audience safely using an anonymous pseudo-name

How many of you "monday morning quarterbacks" have done anything except rant on this site about the dangers of islam while criticizing the one religious leader who has brought it to light...

Posted by: adobe at September 16, 2006 3:38 PM

Muslims may claim to be descendants of Abraham.
But from his son Ishmael, who was cursed as:

"A wild donkey of a man."

And Mohamed is clearly a false prophet.
No one who follows a false prophet will get to know the face of God.

Jesus said: " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the father except trhough me>"

So no chance for the Muslims to be equal to christians. they follow a false religion, a Heresy and they are under a curse.

No equality, no peace with them, no Kumbaya.

Finally, Islam is clearly "The Abomination that causes Destruction" mentioned in Revelation.

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 3:39 PM

adobe: "How many of you "monday morning quarterbacks" have done anything except rant on this site about the dangers of islam while criticizing the one religious leader who has brought it to light..."

Nail on the head!!!

Posted by: M. Joseph at September 16, 2006 3:43 PM

Bondservant,

Muslims and Christians don't worship the same God.

Precisely That is the theme of the Pope's comments, that the Christian God is based on logos (understood as reason) and is not random and unpredictable like the Muslim God.

God and Allah the same? NO WAY1

Posted by: rocky at September 16, 2006 3:44 PM

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood said a Vatican statement on Saturday saying Pope Benedict was sorry for upsetting Muslims with his comments on Islam did not go far enough.

"We want a personal apology (from the Pope). We feel that he has committed a grave error against us and that this mistake will only be removed through a personal apology," Muslim Brotherhood Deputy Leader Mohammed Habib told Reuters.

"Has he presented a personal apology for statements by which he clearly is convinced? No," he said.

link

Posted by: SleepyCat at September 16, 2006 4:10 PM

Muslims Offended by an Inconvenient Truth

at RightLinx

Posted by: McCain at September 16, 2006 4:13 PM

Has there ever been a headline in the "moderate Muslim" press like "Osama must
apologize for hijacking Islam"?

For once the Pope has it right. From its very beginning to present day, Muslims
have written, taught, preached, advocated and practiced violence in the name of
Islam.

In his farewell address in March of 632, Muhammad said, "I was ordered to fight
all men until they say there is no god but Alllah". "I shall cross the ocean to
pursue them untill there is no one on the face of the planet who does not
recognize Allah", Saladin, January, 1189. "We will export out revolution
throughout the world until the calls 'there is no god but Allah' and Muhhamad is
his mmessenger are echoed all over the world", Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini,
1979. "I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but
Allah, and his prophet Muhammad", Osama bin Laden, November 2001.

How many times to we have to hear this to get the message? Even our President
proclaims Islam to be a "religion of peace". If this perception is not confronted, straight on, the West will pay an enormous price that will make WWII seem like a walk in the park.

The Pope's message was clear and rational "violence and religion don't compute"
An apology for telling the truth? Never.

OHara

Posted by: OHara at September 16, 2006 4:26 PM

I am glad to see the Pope stopped short of an outright apology, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060916/ap_on_re_eu/pope_muslims
Noone should have to apologize for speaking the truth. I am glad to see this Pope is not a castrati. Islam has always been spread by the sword, war, violence and terrorism. Muslims seem to be proud of the lands they have taken by conquest but embarassed and angry when a non-muslim points out the truth. Screw 'em. If the truth offends them, or hurts their conscience, too effin bad. God bless Pope Benedict XVI. Long may he rule.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 16, 2006 5:03 PM

This is what I like to see, people standing up for their rights. The Muslims have made it a sin to do so.
You bunny huggers, go hug your bunny's and stay out of grown peoples business. Your options are childish, and don't belong in the real world.
Sense when do we have to debate this, the Muslim are trying to put a gage on the hole world.
Ask the Jews what happens when you do nothing, like my people they had an E.L.E pushed on them. That is what the Muslim are trying to do too the world.
For the bunny huggers an E.L.E is a Extinction Level Event.
They have said more than once, if they can not own the world, they want to destroy it.
I say we push a E.L.E back on the Muslims, by way of a plasma discharge, let them see the whit light from heaven.
The thing about free people, it does not take them long to do back, what has been done too them. Amen.

Posted by: ironkitten at September 16, 2006 5:49 PM

Apart from all the theological debates going on here the main upside of this incident is that many in the west will now have something to think about. Most people I know haven't got a clue about islam,no idea whatever!(other than what I have told them!)

If the Pope gets more people doing a bit of research, and hopefully, thinking a bit more that is a very good thing.

Is it possible that this was his "hidden' message among other things? I think maybe so.
I am sure he chose his words carefully and deliberately.

Posted by: Gramfan at September 16, 2006 6:13 PM

I'm not Catholic and tend to be somewhat ambivalent over what the Pope says, but methinks some of these Muslims doth protesteth too much. If the members of this "peaceful" religion take offence at being considered a bunch of murdering thugs, instead of having a temper tantrum every time someone remotely references this behavior, they might want to show the world that they aren't a bunch of murdering thugs. How can they do that? Have they ever thought of behaving in a manner consistent with what their religion supposedly teaches them, i.e. peace? Or can they not do that because their religion teaches how to wipe out all "non-believers" on the face of the earth?

Posted by: InfidelProud at September 16, 2006 6:48 PM

As predicted, the pope is backpeddling. He doesn't want a fight. He wants to go quietly in the night.

He screwed up in a fundamental way. If his purpose was to show islam as morally corrupt, he should never have used a quote from a Christian emperor. All he needed to do was to quote the koran itself. He could have used any number of real gems from the koran to show his audience the point he was making.

Then, the muslims could say squat, because he was quoting from their own book. Instead, the pope just quoted another Christian badmouthing islam. What good does that do to convince other Christians about islam? It doesn't. To convince other Christians, he needed to quote from the Koran.

That's what I don't get. Why did he not quote the suras concerning spreading religion by fear and violence? Then he would have put the muslim world on the defensive instead of the offensive. He would have had the muslim world backpeddling instead, trying to justify those suras.

Posted by: August22 at September 16, 2006 7:05 PM

I think the Pope's over-riding concern at the moment is to make sure that Turkey is excluded from the EU, and so prevent those demographic movements towards which its entry would lead. I feel the Islamic world has walked into a modest trap leading to one more PR disaster for it in the west.There will no doubt be more at calculated intervals, making the MSM consensus that the Pope has bungled or displayed his inexperience look increasingly silly. The upshot will be that at the end of the decade when all the referendums are tken on Turkish entry into Europe, to the surprise of the media, Europens will show that they would rather have the rattle-snake introduced into their environment than let any Muslim state in. Muslims everywhere will be doing all sorts of off-putting things in the next few years but there is always the danger that the Turks will keep a relatively clean nose and present themselves as secular, westernised people: that image is now a little less easy to keep up than it was last week.

Posted by: wallyUK at September 16, 2006 7:20 PM

If Muslims are still (although not for very much longer) the minority here in Europe and they manage to extract an apology from the leader of a billion or so Catholics - just think about the enormous possibility for the destruction of all Christianity in Europe when they become the majority. If Romans and the Vatican wish to take a look into their future, they should just book a trip to Constantinople. Wasn't there once a song with lyrics to the tune of 'the history book on the shelf...is always repeating itself'. How I miss Oriana Fallaci...

Posted by: I predict a riot at September 17, 2006 2:30 AM

I liked the way the Danes apologised for the cartoons, if any apology had to be made: 'gee, we're sorry you take offence so easily'.

Yes, I'm sorry to see humans reduce themselves to fanatical robot-like mobbists and prove the pope so right.

Posted by: Lili at September 17, 2006 4:54 AM

Most people are done with the Muslims, they have shown that the only thing they are interested in is killing. They will have a temper tantrum, over anything. Here is something they can get mad over.
All Muslims are "Dogs", they are like Pit-bull. Even if you are the owner, you don't trust them. They are the ones that caused the great flood, they are the surge that God him self got rid of once. But like a true plague, it is so hard to get rid of.
Now you can see it for your self, Muslims will continue to do anything they can to keep killing. Make up any excuse.
How are they to deiced what people should do and say, in the Bible, it warns us about the false profit, Mohammed is the false profit. I take off my shoe and show Muslims my soles.

Posted by: ironkitten at September 17, 2006 9:08 AM

Yes, to whomever reads this. I hate you raghead goat fuckers. Mohamed fucks goats in Hell. I hope you join him soon you sand sucking illegitimate bastard with no father.

Posted by: APOSTLE PAUL at September 18, 2006 2:29 PM