Still no word of any Western Religious figure suggesting that the vile and incendiary remarks made each and every Friday by a great many Muslim Clerics should have them held to the same standard.

No, of course not.

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at September 21, 2006 3:39 PM

Enraged over the Pope's suggestion that Islam might be violent, Islamic clerics and scholars demand his removal and threaten jihad violence if their demand goes unheeded.............
................................................

The first sentence says it all. Can't get their way, they'll kill you.

Posted by: freewoman at September 21, 2006 3:43 PM

I heartily agree - the pope should be removed!

I was surprised by the Pope's 'insulting' remarks last week. I was surprised because it was clear enough to me to be understood as a measured critique of the islamic world. It wasnt insulting. It wasnt new, wasnt unique, and carefully measured to show that in the last 600yrs since the initial statement was made that things really havnt changed.

I was then dismayed when the holy-see issued "weasel words" after the initial response by the Religon Of Peace(tm).

I was angered by the continual backpedalling of the Vatican on this issue. "Not really what I meant", "Wasnt my words", "Deep respect for islam"

Damn it. Quit already. Go home. The last thing the west needs is for an iconic leader to backpedal in the face of "jihad threats because of your words".

Dmimitude in a textbook package.

For a moment I had thought "wow, the Pope is calling em like he see's em. How refreshing! Maybe there is really a backbone in western leadership!" But thats all faded now.

Why dear americans was it ok to be unequivacaly "anti-Soviet" for decades, unflinchingly staring down the potential of ICBMs. Yet, we're all cowards to a loosely organized band of thugs and school-boy-bullies. Even GW is tepid about it. The latest self-serving czarist Putin is shy to say it. Now the Pope too...

Dear God, where did all our balls go in such short notice?

Posted by: MikeMontana at September 21, 2006 3:48 PM

Freemuslims.org wrote the following article. It's one of the few but at least it's not total silence. Here's an excerpt and a link to the rest.

Benedict the Brave
September 20, 2006

The pope said things Muslims need to hear about faith and reason.

It's a familiar spectacle: furious demands for an apology, threats, riots, violence. Anything can trigger so-called Muslim fury: a novel by a British-Indian writer, newspaper cartoons in a small Nordic country or, this past week, a talk on theology by the head of the Roman Catholic Church.

In a lecture on "Faith and Reason" at the University of Regensburg in Germany, Benedict XVI cited one of the last emperors of Byzantium, Manuel II Paleologus. Stressing the 14th-century emperor's "startling brusqueness," the pope quoted him as saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Taken alone, these are strong words. However, the pope didn't endorse the comment that he twice emphasized was not his own. No matter. As with Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses," which millions of outraged Muslims didn't bother to read (including Ayatollah Khomeini, who put the bounty on the novelist's life), what Benedict XVI meant or even said isn't the issue. Once again, many Muslim leaders are inciting their faithful against perceived slights and trying to proscribe how free societies discuss one of the world's major religions.

http://www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=1730

Posted by: citycat at September 21, 2006 3:51 PM

Pope quails before Islamic fury

http://www.jnewswire.com/article/1129

“The pope’s secretary of state said in a statement that Benedict’s position on Islam was unquestionably in line with the Vatican’s traditional teaching that Rome “esteems Muslims, who adore the only God.”

Hmmmm So then, Benedict is implying that Jehovah is the same as the Islamic moon god allah?

I would have thought that HE, who claims to be Christ’s representative here on earth, would know the difference.

Guess there's no chance then that he'll be giving them the Gospel anytime soon.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 3:52 PM

Christianity and Islam - Can both be right simultaneously ? If yes, are other religious belief systems are as good as Christianity ?

Posted by: MP at September 21, 2006 3:58 PM

MP Wrote "Christianity and Islam - Can both be right simultaneously ? If yes, are other religious belief systems are as good as Christianity ?"

No. They can not be right simulatenously.

Islam demands the death of insulters, and non-converters. It rationalizes the killing of those perceived to be a barrier to its religon. As a special bonus, islam states that ppl of Jewish faith are specifically worthy of pain, suffering and death. This isnt open for interpretation, its explicitly stated as such in muslim scriptures.

Christianity does not glorify murder. You may correctly point out that hasnt been the actual path, and you'd be correct on points. But, not on core ethics.

No matter what evils have been committed by christians, it doesnt take a theologian to say that core christianity deplores murder and infliction of suffering upon anyone, regardless of their faith. Christianity didnt come up with this idea on its own, its the simplified view of Judiasim.

So, there is no room for "moral relavitism" here. Hardcore muslims declare you and your children are acceptable targets for the betterment of their own salvation.

Can you share a world with this mindset? I can not.

Posted by: MikeMontana at September 21, 2006 4:09 PM

I think I will join the Height-Asbury Non Denominational Freebase Assembly of God.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 21, 2006 4:12 PM

MikeMontana,

I think he backpedaled because he had to consider the physical safety of Catholic (Uninate) denominations in the Muslim world. He knows how Mohammedans can become unhinged when they perceive a slight against their beloved prophet.

Posted by: spencerd at September 21, 2006 4:14 PM

Something big and bad is going to happen soon. I can practically feel the seething from here.

Posted by: Beagle at September 21, 2006 4:18 PM

The Pope can step down when the following things happen:

1)Iran overthrows its theocracy

2)Saudi Arabia gets rid of Wahabbism.

3)All these clerics who claim the Pope hasn't apologized begin to apologize for inciting violence

Until these things happen Islam and all its crazed dogs can go straight to hell.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at September 21, 2006 4:21 PM

On 19th September, an Italian EU diplomat and his wife were found with their throats slashed in their house in Rabat, Morocco. The Moroccan police and the EU are downplaying it as a burglary (items were indeed stolen), but apparently some Italian newspapers have raised questions that it may have been related to the Pope's speech. Moroccan papers have also mentioned it could be 'islamist'.

Apparently murders, particularly of foreigners, are rare in Morocco, and there was 'no need' to kill the couple.

http://trans.voila.fr/voila?systran_lp=fr_en&systran_id=Voila-fr&systran_f=100000000000&systran_url=http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=10246

http://trans.voila.fr/voila?systran_lp=fr_en&systran_id=Voila-fr&systran_f=100000000000&systran_url=http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=10261

Posted by: Silvester at September 21, 2006 4:24 PM

"I think he backpedaled because he had to consider the physical safety of Catholic (Uninate) denominations in the Muslim world. He knows how Mohammedans can become unhinged when they perceive a slight against their beloved prophet. Posted by: spencerd"

I can't recall any of the disciples backpedalling once the Church was established. They did not waver in speaking the truth, even at the cost of imprisonment by the religious leaders of their day. I recall that Stephen spoke the truth and was stoned to death.

They certainly would NEVER have implied that any false god was the same as Jehovah. I think they believed their duty as servants of Christ was to spread the Gospel.

We are to stand firm in the truth. There will always be martyrs....right up to the end (according to the Scriptures).

I am disappointed.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 4:26 PM

Sorry, those links are bad. Here are links for the French article, click on British flag for translation.

http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=10246

http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=10261

Posted by: Silvester at September 21, 2006 4:27 PM

Re: Muslims adoring the same G-d as Christians and Jews.

Theologically speaking... there is only ONE G-d period. There may be many false gods, or images of god, but there is only one true G-d.

Therefore, since Muslims claim Abraham as their father, as do Jews and Christian; one can say that Muslims worship the G-d that Abraham knew.

However, this DOES NOT mean that Muslims have a correct and full picture of G-d.

Thus, both Christians, Jews, and Muslims have differing views on the full character and actions of G-d.

On a personal level, I would say that radical Muslims have a woefully screwed-up vision of G-d. As a Catholic I would aknowledge that they still strive to worship the one true G-d despite their totally screwed up view of who G-d is.

Re: The Vatican's response.. quite frankly on a personal level I wish they would cut the PC crap and really tell it like it is. However, I understand their role to continue to respect what is true and good in the Islamic faith and to press for a non-violent solution.

However, as I've said before, how the heck do you defeat a violent enemy with a non-violent solution?

Posted by: Monkeywho at September 21, 2006 4:27 PM

The best thing to do is just laugh at this demand and the pompous threats.

There will never be compromise.

Ridicule, that's all it is worth.

Posted by: Turbinehead at September 21, 2006 4:29 PM

Mohammad was a liar....a child molester..a murderer and a thief...I have more is that enough for a fatwa?

Posted by: storagemanager at September 21, 2006 4:33 PM

Oh and another thing. I notice that these "holy" nutters ALL agreed.

I bet if one of them disagreed with the demands or threats he would have been torn to pieces by his Peaceable chums. Break ranks with such a self-righteous mob and yer dead-meat!

Posted by: Turbinehead at September 21, 2006 4:34 PM

From the clerics' joint statement:

The pope, and all infidels, should know that no Muslim, under any circumstances, can tolerate an insult to the Prophet (Muhammad). ... If the West does not change its stance regarding Islam, it will face severe consequences.

Posted by: Null at September 21, 2006 4:34 PM

Doesn't anyone see the humor in the Muslims getting mad and threatening to destroy churches and kill christians (and carrying it out) because the Pope quoted a Christian emperor who said that Islam is exactly what the muslims now are showing it to be. Aren't they proving the quote to be true by their actions?...which means shouldn't they be mad at themselves for slandering Islam and its prophet?

Posted by: Matt_the_American at September 21, 2006 4:42 PM

Mohammed had some knowledge of what Christians and Jews believed - that there was only ONE Creator God. He then chose one of his HUNDREDS of false gods and appointed HIM as being THE god.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I were to go out and pick up an idol and appoint it as god, would that idol become GOD? NO WAY.

Mohammed took information from the OT and NT and twisted it to lay claim to historical facts. Of course, they did not want to be the offspring of Ishmael (given that Issac was the promised son of Abraham), so they changed THAT story too!

Appointing a false god, does not make that false god become THE God. IF SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT, IT IS NOT THE SAME.

People create gods to suit their sins all the time. They say things like "my god would never do this or my god would never do that".....fact is THEIR god couldn't do anything anyway, because their god does not exist.

Allah is a false god of a demonic religion. Remember, Paul said that any other gospel is a doctrine of demons. Remember, their religion started hundreds of years after Christ.

I have heard the excuse at a CoE service in England, that Muslims lack understanding.

They lack no less understanding that someone who is not saved. What makes me disgusted is when I hear vicars and now the pope teaching that allah is the same as the God of the Bible. That sort of appeasement is blasphemy.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 4:44 PM

Mohammad was a liar....a child molester..a murderer and a thief...I have more is that enough for a fatwa? Posted by: storagemanager

Another EXCELLENT reason to know that allah is NOT the God of the Bible and Mohammed is NOT a superior 'prophet' (what Islam says Jesus is) to Jesus Christ.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 4:46 PM

monkeywho,

I agree.

I don't think there IS a nonviolent solution. Well, in the case of Iran massive sanctions would be a good non-violent solution. Unfortunately, our "allys" Russia, France and China are against those.

Posted by: citycat at September 21, 2006 4:48 PM

Doesn't anyone see the humor in the Muslims getting mad and threatening to destroy churches and kill christians (and carrying it out) because the Pope quoted a Christian emperor who said that Islam is exactly what the muslims now are showing it to be. Aren't they proving the quote to be true by their actions?...which means shouldn't they be mad at themselves for slandering Islam and its prophet? Posted by: Matt_the_American

Exactly. They PROVE that Islam is NOT a peaceful religion by the violence and hatred they spew when anyone suggests that Islam is not a peaceful religion!

What's amazing is how stupid the world seems to be (including the media and the politicians) when it comes to seeing the obvious.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 4:49 PM

The meeting was organized by the radical Islamic group Jamaat al-Dawat, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of Kashmir....
..... "Jihad is waged to rid an area, state, or the world of oppression, violence, cruelty, and terrorism, and bring peace and relief to the people. History is full of incidents where Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians," it said.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 21, 2006 4:58 PM

On a side note, regarding those 1,000 imans that are meeting in Pakistan, what was their GPS coordinates? Just curious and happened to be sitting next to a cute little red button.

Another side note, I am not Catholic but are there any Catholics in the world that are upset about this and have taken to the streets? I have not seen any. You get someone like Sinead O'Conner that mocks the Pope and the Catholics take to the streets. You get muslims that want the Popes life and head, and the Catholics are silent. The Pope is not my leader so I was just currious if there were any men in the Catholic religion anymore. Even Madonna's recent tour with her hanging on a cross with a crown of thorns got more reaction from muslims then from Catholics. It's not just a social club is it?

Posted by: alaskan1000 at September 21, 2006 5:02 PM

The Goobs

You make some valid points, but the Pope realizes that the dwindling Christian minorities in Muslim lands perhaps don't wish to be martyrs. Furthermore, he realizes that if major pogroms against Christians do start breaking out in the Dar es Islam the post Christian West will not lift a finger to stop the slaughter.

I too am disappointed. But not at the Pope but at Islam and its western defenders.

Posted by: spencerd at September 21, 2006 5:03 PM

The very demand that the Pope should resign or be removed shows that they do not know what the Hell they are talking about. A Pope does not resign (only one ever did so, and it is generally agreed that was not a good idea) and cannot be removed by anyone, for any reason. Not even by a General Council of the Church. There have been Popes who have been scoundrels, Popes who have lost their faculties, Popes who have been imprisoned by their enemies (from Pope Martin I, jailed in Crimea by the Byzantine Emperor, to Pope Pius VII, incarcerated by Napoleon), but not even the most powerful of these men has ever managed to depose a Pope. These fools are asking for the impossible.

And this gives you an idea of where Islam, at least this kind of Islam (for the freemuslims.org article reminds us that there are good guys, even there), is consistently wrong. They simply ask for the impossible, every time. Take our wretched media. Our media, we all know, are madly and gutlessly grovelling in the dust at the feet of the most debased jihadis. But that is not enough. We hear that the Muslims want to buy up even more of our media, and that their Western-born mercenaries are telling them that they must become "more media-savvy". To us, this sounds like insanity; and to a very large extent, it is. The thing is that, even as neutered, gutless and anti-American as these wretched media industries are, they simply cannot, for the sheer number and force of events, help reporting a great many incidents in which the words "islam" and "muslim" are associated with violence. And the Muslims in question cannot bear it; cannot bear that the slow, continuous dripping of news however censored should associate them, rather than the Chinese or the Australian Aboriginals, with terrorism; cannot abide to have that image. Who, me, a terrorist? Never! And instead of doing something about the reality, they want to tamper with the image. They cannot stop terrorism, even if they wanted to, but they want us to stop talking about it. They have people among them who love to inflict terror (and who consider themselves justified by their own holy books), but at the same time they do not want us to be scared of them. Islam must inflict terror on its enemies, but those enemies should not cultivate Islamophobia. These men simply demand the impossible; they demand not only a contradiction in terms, but a contradiction in terms of their own behaviour.

And they can never achieve it. The Communist tyrants of old wanted to suppress the exchange of ideas in their own countries alone - in the expectation that one day the tide of Marxist Historical Forces would extend their rule to all the world. But even in their maddest moments they did not imagine that they could, until then, suppress the exchange of ideas in territories that they did not dominate militarily and politically and on which they could not unleash their secret police. These maniacs seriously think they can. They seriously think that they can impose rules on the way in which we speak about them and about their religion among ourselves - that a Danish cartoonist, most likely an atheist, cannot draw a cartoon intended for other Danes without their permission; that the head of the Catholic Church may not preach a sermon to a hall full of academic dignitaries probably not a single one of which is Muslim, without the Muslims allowing it. This is tyrannical enough if you just state it, but it becomes sheer insanity when you start thinking what it involves. What, of all the infinite exchanges on newspapers, television, books, internet, all sorts of public spaces where a few or many people congregate and meet - silence all these? Control all these? Even Spinoza knew better: his strange defence of religious liberty is based on the idea that it is tyrannical (and I would say insane) to try and extend the powers of the State (or of any body) beyond what it can physically do, and no body of any kind can exert control on the human soul. A fortiori, then, in this world of infinite and nearly countless communications, how can these maniacs achieve what they want? It is not a matter of values, even, but simply of conditions: they do not have the power to do so, nobody has.

And that means not only that they are insane, but that they will go on being frustrated for ever. However hard they try to terrify us into declaring that they are not terrifying, they cannot do it. They are bound to hear the noise of Western talk condemning them for ever; rejecting them and their prophet; making, time and again, statements that offend them. They will be rabid as long as they live, and never have what they want.

Posted by: Paolo at September 21, 2006 5:04 PM

"LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) — About 1,000 Muslim clerics and religious scholars meeting Thursday in eastern Pakistan demanded the removal of Pope Benedict XVI for making what they called "insulting remarks" against Islam."

Later....

"The meeting was organized by the radical Islamic group Jamaat al-Dawat, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of Kashmir...."

Seems like an auditorium in Lahore would have been a good place to drop a daisy-cutter.

Cheers

Posted by: Mr. Arbroath at September 21, 2006 5:04 PM

Here is a picture of how Muslism gave relief to a Christian highschooler in Malasia...she is the one who survived. The others were relieved of their heads.

Machete attack survivor working on rehab
Christian high school girl was only victim left alive in ambush by Muslims

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52070

Posted: September 21, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Noviana's injury

The only survivor of a machete attack by radical Muslims on four Christian high school girls successfully has had surgery on her massive injury, and officials with Voice of the Martyrs say they are working on additional treatments for her.

As WND has described, Noviana Malewa and three of her friends were walking on a school path Oct 29, 2005, when they were assaulted by jihadists wielding machetes. Three of the girls were decapitated and Noviana suffered a massive slash that ran from her cheek to her neck.

Posted by: Abby at September 21, 2006 5:10 PM

Perhaps we should demand the immediate turnover to the U.S. of OBL, Zawahiri etc. or warn the clerics of Pakistani consequences.

Posted by: Abby at September 21, 2006 5:12 PM

Just get it started you cowards..............

Posted by: Texican at September 21, 2006 5:18 PM

I too am disappointed......at Islam and its western defenders. Posted by: spencerd

I'm with you there! Sick of the lack of willingness for our governments in the West to call a duck a duck.

I'm not a Catholic....but I was for a little while, pleased that the pope didn't apologize but rather said that he was upset with the 'reaction' from Islam about his speech.

Unfortunately, the latest statement, for me, was a disappointment.

I KNOW our politicians and media cannot be trusted to speak the truth...not if it will cost them their cozy jobs and their money and power.

I just didn't know that they could manipulate the pope too. I'm just angry that no one seems to have the courage to fight back and not flinch. I HAVE heard one pastor on the TV (Rod Parsley - Breakthrough) who has been saying it like it is regarding islam, allah, etc.

I can't stand his screaming and I hate the background organ music, designed to fire folks up, but he HAS had the courage lately to say it on the television week after week. I wouldn't be surprised if he or the organization gets threats or attacks. But at least someone is telling the truth!

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 5:24 PM

"Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians,"

Thats just too funny..............

Maybe "Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people" means that people will attain peace in there deaths.

Posted by: thehappyinfidel at September 21, 2006 5:28 PM

Further clarification:

Allah is actually a personal name and is not a universal arabic designation for deity.

Which is why I get perturbed when I hear the translation "God willing." This is incorrect. It should be Allah willing.

Therefore, I would not say that Allah is the same as the Christian G-d as I would not recognize Allah as being a proper name of the G-d.

Remember Paul told the Romans, when he say an altar to the UNKNOWN G-d at Apollo, that he would tell them about the unknown G-d which they worship.

Posted by: Monkeywho at September 21, 2006 5:30 PM

"Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians"
Yes, muslims relieved them of their lives, their wealth and their posessions. The world would be a better place if islam were removed forever.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 5:30 PM

Monkeywho, you are absolutely right. I once heard a vicar say that allah was just an arab word for god. I then noted that different languages would have their own word for god. So why then, would all Islamic countries, who have many different languages, use the name allah?

Because it is a proper name of course.

Ask a Muslim, if they worship Jehovah, the God of the Jews and Christians. Ask THEM if Jesus Christ is the son of God. You will get no on BOTH counts.

If something is different, it is not the same.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 5:37 PM

MaxInfidel:

Do you have to insult the Pope and Catholics too? We get enough crap from Muslims, liberals like Rosie O'Donnell (how do you like being in their company?) and now you.

It's obvious that you'll never make it to public office. This is a delicate situation here. The Pope DOES have to be mindful of those who will suffer (and already have suffered) as a result of those barbarians reacting to his words. He is trying to galvanize Europe against Islam without alienating them with invective.

MikeMontana: this goes for you too. I haven't noticed too many Protestant leaders (other than the retired Bishop of Canterbury) taking any bullets by criticizing Islam. They're too busy sniping at the Catholic Church (The Whore of Bablyon, as they like to call it).

I'm fed up with reactionary yahoos like you two who can bluster and criticize without pausing to think about the big picture.

Posted by: atheling at September 21, 2006 5:44 PM

We cannot bomb Pakistan back to the stone age because the country has been living in it ever since the 8th century A.D.

Posted by: Kepha at September 21, 2006 5:46 PM

Let them keep up their rants and demands. Maybe Pakistan will be removed.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 5:46 PM

atheling,

actually Frank Graham (Billy Graham's son) got a lot of flak for calling Islam "evil". But that was before Muslims got so worked up. And of course, Frank Graham was not as high profile as the Pope, supposedly the head of Christendom (unfortunately, most Muslims have no idea that there are the Orthodox and the Protestants, as well).

Posted by: yaqub at September 21, 2006 6:07 PM

Assalamau-Laikum all,

Boy you peoples have pissed off some of the worst lunds in Pak. The one thing for sure is that these peoples try and put into practice what they preach..a nasty faithful lot.

His Hollowness I think was trying to be a smart and to an extent he has been....but I believe he has also been surprised by the extent of the anger.

So what have we all learned by this exercise.

1) That there are huge number of violent jackass muslims worldwide...but we knew that already, none can compare to the Ahmadi.

2) That the pope has been intimidated never to repeat the exercise...yes that has been a disappointment to at least to maxinfedel and the vile "fedup".

3) MUslims now know that the pope has shown a lack of courage and faith. If he had these in abundance (like the muslim) i.e had complete faith in Jesus then he would have completed his sentence..."I am sorry that muslim peoples are angry...those words (of Manuel II) do not represent my view which is "that you are a bunch of lying, dying violent scums just like Manuel II said".

He did not utter his own words , and whether they would be true or not is irrelevent. What is important is that he did not say them because he lacks faith in his god.

Now look at the muslims...vile horrible vitroel has been spoken by them ....but here is the thing....they back their prophet completely and expected to be supported and rewarded by Allah...no questions asked.

This is why even YOU people lost faith with the pope...you are running around aimlessly...desperately looking for someone who rocks...but it ain't Benedict.

Yes I am saddled by morons on either side in Lahore...but the Kafur is saddled even more so.

Smoke that in your pipe.

Posted by: Naseem at September 21, 2006 6:11 PM

yaqub:

Thanks for the reminder. He got flak from the liberals, and has been quiet ever since. I don't see Max and Mike mocking him. I suspect this is just another opportunity for anti-Catholic bigots to join in the crowd. I hope they like the (Muslim) company they keep.

Posted by: atheling at September 21, 2006 6:12 PM

And verily I saith unto thee that when any 1000 'slammi clerics or 190 taliban mourners may gather unto themselves in one place, that the wonderful star known as GeePeeEss will guide the ever-present flying Angel of Righteousness to deliver unto them their just reward.

Posted by: turn at September 21, 2006 6:13 PM

Events are moving along so fast, I'm amazed and gladdened.

With the rising tide of raging Moslem lunacy, hopefully the retrograde elements in the West will be too off guard to formulate a response. Hopefully, the increasingly revealed vile nature of Islam will encourage the West to rise up and rid itself of Islamic filth.

And yes, there are "good" ones, but, as everyone knows, there were good Germans, even good (or not horrible) Nazis and good Japanese and we slaughtered them all in the name of national survival, the good and the bad, equally. The "good" ones should convert out of that horror as soon as possible to spare themselves. Anyway, I'm not so sure about their "goodness". What excuse can they have for confessing to the creed of a murderous pedophile?

It needs to be eliminated and erased from our memory.

Posted by: Seymour Paine at September 21, 2006 6:19 PM

Let's get off this Jehova-and-allah-are-the-same kick once and for all. They are not the same. Any one who even thinks that is more than just a plain fool. Do you realize that any belief in the Jehova/allah connection is a belief that Jehova (God)delivered an entirely different message ot the Arabs? Islam is a absolute denial of Jesus. Ask yourself what parts of Jesus's sermons were incorporated in the Quran? Look for them, they ain't there.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 21, 2006 6:27 PM

Naseem:

You are a troll. A raghead one at that. I was cordial to you initially, but now I'm taking the gloves off.

You want to mock the Pope for moral cowardice???

YOU WANT TO HEAR ABOUT MORAL COWARDICE, YOU STINKING COW TURD? HOW ABOUT THE MUSLIM COWARDS WHO BEAT AND RAPED A NINE YEAR OLD GIRL BECAUSE SHE'S A CHRISTIAN? HOW ABOUT THE COWARDICE OF THE MUSLIM RAT SCUMS WHO SHOT A NUN IN THE BACK?

Do you support that? You are wrong about Benedict. He is not a firebrand, nor does he use vitriolic rhetoric, which is what you Muslim Morons are used to because you are all too stupid to comprehend anything that contains logic and reason. You people are too stupid to understand subtlety, therefore I'm going to hit you over the head with my not-so-subtle logic stick:

*The Pope did not apologize or backpedal the words of the Emperor. He apologized for the REACTIONS to the words. In other words, the apology was for those who suffer at the filthy bloody hands of MUSLIM PIGS who murder and rampage.

*The words of the PC police at the Vatican (and unfortunately they exist) are not the personal words of the Pope.

*The Pope is NOT surprised at the reaction of the MUSLIM PIGS. Guess what? The Vatican has an Intelligence Agency too and they knew full well what the response would be. The response is always the same: threats, violence, and murder.

*No Catholic I know of is in despair over this. Those postings of MikeMontana and MaxInfidel reflect that they are not Catholic, and perhaps not even Christian - I wouldn't gauge their response as a meter for Catholic attitudes on this matter. Catholics are pissed off. And we're gonna show it at the polls.

You really are laughable. If Islam wasn't such a vile, lethal cult it would be laughable. But mark my words, cow turd:

ISLAM IS GOING DOWN. MECCA WILL NO LONGER EXIST. WE IN THE US ARE TIRED OF PUSSYFOOTING WITH YOU POISONOUS SCUM AND WE'RE GONNA VOTE FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENT WHO HAS THE BALLS TO NUKE MECCA.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, bitch.

Posted by: atheling at September 21, 2006 6:31 PM

"If the West does not change it's stance against islam, it will face severe consequences."

And if the WORLD gives islam all that it demands,we will still face severe consequences.

"History is full of incidents in which Muslims waged Jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians."

Because nobody really wants to live a life void of constant UNPROVOKED warfare in the name of allah(not God), they just don't realize it.

Posted by: We need G.C. Scott at September 21, 2006 6:45 PM

Naseem,

This is why even YOU people lost faith with the pope...you are running around aimlessly...desperately looking for someone who rocks...but it ain't Benedict.

Posted by: Beagle at September 21, 2006 6:45 PM

You cannot reason with "Naseem." A brainwashed, zombie muslim cannot be reasoned with. They'll forever "reason" that actions committed by their brethren is NOT violence, because they only REACT to violence, which in their mind is anything spoken "against" their god and prophet. They only REACT to those who "oppose" their demands to submit to their "religion."

The first full-scale genocide in the last century was committed by these islamic zombies against the Armenian Christians from 1915 to 1922. They deny that it was a "planned" genocide, since "people died on both sides." In other words, when some Armenians fought back (opposing their demand to "relocate" to concentration camps, where hundreds of thousands of Armenian Christians starved to death), they claim these Christians committed "violence" against the Islamic authorities. The resulting 1.5 million who were murdered by these filthy Islamic Turks were done away with in order to bring about "peace." (If nobody's left to oppose you, then you get "Islamic peace".)

Islam preaches "peace," in demanding that everyone else in the world submit to them, or else they will be put to death. Once all opposition to their demands for submission is put to the sword, the naturally "peace" results. Once everyone in the whole world becomes a mindless, head-thumping zombie, ONLY THEN will "peace" result.

You cannot reason with these people. You can only defend yourself against them. If they take to the streets of your towns and cities, then shoot them. Defend yourselves against these mindess, blood-thirsty savages.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at September 21, 2006 6:52 PM

Naseem, every time you open your mouth you astound us with your stupidity and ignorance. I see now why muslims forbid their women to speak to men in public. Speaking exposes the generations of inbreeding that has made you so retarded and submissive.
The Pope has shown remarkable courage and rare bravery by speaking the truth. He is open and honest. He will NOT apologize. A man does not apologize to wild dogs. The truth is what has set you rabid curs to howling so. You cannot stand hearing the truth about yourselves because it exposes you for what you truly are. Your muslim "fighters" do not dare speak and expose themselves. They scurry out from under whatever rock they are hiding under, take off their burkha, make a video denouncing the West, make their threats then run back into hiding like the rats and vermin they are. They are afraid to fight the Western armies face to face. They tremble and shit their pantys at the thought of fighting real men face to face. They are weak like a menstruating woman. That is why they use IED's and suicide bombs and pretend to be brave by blowing up unarmed women and children.
Go ahead, kill the Pope, attack our cities. We need an excuse to nuke Mecca, Medina, Lebanon, Iran and Paki-land, the lands of the unpure, inbred and feeble minded.
Assyougottalickem to you too.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 7:09 PM

Our problem is our own cowardice. Our problem is the unbelievable idiocy of our own media and a political class who is singing & dancing the appeasement-walz...

The self-flagellations never stops, the 'but-all-religions-are-violent' parrots are out in force and shout everyone down who tries to reason with the unreasonable...
Our problem is our dependence on trade with the 'muslim-world'- since they produce nothing, it is us who supplies them with everything- including aid, the Jiziyah....

Our fear to see the oil-supply disrupted paralyzes us, our fear of confrontation forces us to ever more concessions until there's nothing more to concede....

The pope's backflip is appalling and the apologies seem to make it worse, not better. Condi (as during 'Koran-rage') makes statements and apologies no one asked her to make,which in turn simply reinforce the perception of a headless and naive spring- chicken in a position she should never have been entrusted with.

No wonder the Islamic nightmare is out of control!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at September 21, 2006 7:11 PM

Naseem is upset at the West because her lund is now fertilizing poppies in Paki-lund. She is no longer a breeder, she is worthless in her society. All she has is her audience here. No one else will listen to her rants and raves.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 7:13 PM

Catholic catechism on Islam:

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims.
"The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]

If the Catholic Church is stating in paragraph 841 above, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that there are those within the Muslim community who may find salvation by becoming Christians and not remaining Muslims, then I would agree. But, it does not appear to be saying this.
What is disturbing is the statement that "together with us they [Muslims] adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day." So, Catholics and Muslims both "adore the one, merciful God." Quite frankly, it would seem that the Roman Catholic church has a faulty understanding of the God of Islam.

Islam acknowledges that it serves the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But in so doing it is stating that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, were Muslims! Furthermore, Islam denies that God is a Trinity.

"They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them," (Quran 5:73, Yusufali).
"They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve," (Quran 5:73, Pickthal

Posted by: bondservant at September 21, 2006 7:21 PM

My imaginary friend is more powerful than your imaginary friend.

Riveting stuff.

Still, I think I'll always have more patience with religious types who aren't offering conversion or death.

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at September 21, 2006 7:28 PM

Ahhh, the 6th Pillar of Islam at work on the international stage.

This force is the most powerful source of censorship on earth; it makes Marxist-Leninist, Stalinist, and Maoist censorship look like child's play, cuz it's pervasive and it could be anybody who murders you for speaking out against Islam

Anybody who's a Moslem, that is.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 21, 2006 7:45 PM

"Jihad is waged to rid an area, state, or the world of oppression, violence, cruelty, and terrorism, and bring peace and relief to the people. History is full of incidents where Muslims waged jihad to provide relief to people of many faiths, especially Jews and Christians," it said.

Do you suppose these geeks are lying, or are they actually occluded from knowing what should be readily apparent to all.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at September 21, 2006 7:47 PM

Here is an article from Catholic answers that explains the relationship of other religions to the Catholic Church:

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

Here is a reason that some textual clarifications needed to be made:

http://amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2006/09/stop_the_lie_be.html

God Bless the Holy Father!

Posted by: mojori at September 21, 2006 7:48 PM

"The 'pope and all infidels should know that no Muslim, under any circumstances, can tolerate an insult to the Prophet (Muhammad)....If the West does not change its stance regarding Islam, it will face severe consequences'."

Much ado about nothing.

It's interesting that as we speak Madonna is presenting a faux crucifixion of herself in her multi-million dollar concerts, insulting millions of Christians right and left. While I'd like to have a conversation with her about this, there is nothing in me that would like to kill her or even slap her face. That's not how we resolve conflict.

Now if over a billion people are telling me that I will face severe consequences,
(and we all know what those are,) for saying or even thinking something against some regular guy that they honor, I've got no problem seriously considering lobbing a nuclear bomb their way. That may get their attention. That may smack the dog on the nose. That may save western civilization. That WILL end their argument.

As far as the Pope goes, good luck on getting rid of him. There has been a Pope for two thousand years, ever since Jesus Christ instituted the office. He's not going anywhere. If the Muslims understood who is the ultimate Authority Figure regarding what goes on in this world they wouldn't utter such stupid rubbish.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at September 21, 2006 7:55 PM

Naseem -

I don't "get" your response concerning the Pope, because I've read many of your posts, and you've said the SAME thing yourself about radical Islam.

But every time a Christian speaks the truth about Islam you, and others like you, change your tune and get your panties in a bunch. Why the double standard?

Posted by: champ at September 21, 2006 7:55 PM

First of all there are many Catholics who have come out and openly agreed with Pope Benedict and commended him for his bravery. Also I commend those Muslims who are making the effort to join the rest of civilization.

Second, I continue to draw the line when it comes to the false statement that Allah is the name of a moon god. This nonsense has come from a very untrustworthy source, and therefore I believe that all good and well-intentioned Christians should refrain from referencing the Christian extremists.

Third, the CCC is correct in what is says regarding salvation. Catholics do not view salvation in the narrow Protestant sense of the word. We maintain that Islam does have some truth in it. We acknowledge what Muslims say: that the worship the God of Abraham. It is an acknowledgement that needs to be made, if we are going to be able to establish any form of dialogue with Muslims, and help those who are willing to listen to understand the truth about Jesus Christ.
In truth it is an acknowledgement that those who are not saved are those who do wicked things: such as threatening to kill the Pope, and blaspheming Jesus Christ.

Fourth, there are many Catholics who are deceived about the truth concerning Islam. They need a dose of reality too. The deception comes from the fact that they rely too heavily upon a press that is only too willing to pull Catholics down in every possible way. If the press says: "the Pope should not have said that because some poor woosie Muslim might take it the wrong way", then they will agree with the Press, instead of taking the time to read the quote in its context.

I maintain that the Jihadis were looking for an excuse to begin to wage war on the Catholic Church, as representative of all Christians. Their demands that the Pope convert to Islam or else, should be a warning to all Catholics who flirt with the idea that we can live in peace with the Jihadis.

Posted by: Maggie4Life at September 21, 2006 8:37 PM

We ought to laugh at these people and their outrageous demands.Of course they are filled with RAGE AGAINST THE WEST- everything in their dreary,brainwashed lives makes them jealous of the things we take for granted and enjoy. Imagine if your only thrill was looking at the backside of a goat or praying 5 times a day beside hundreds of smelly,bearded men with some crazy cleric ranting on about how perfect Islam is...
See how eager Amadinejad & his Mullahs are to get to U.S and experience 'Western decadence'-wow-all those sexy Infidel unveiled women,sizzling pork,alcohol and unIslamic music.
Bet these religious hypocrites can't get enough;
like their Saudi Bros, they'll be guzzling alcohol,paying prostitutes etc-BEHIND CLOSED DOORS!!THIS IS THE NATURE OF ISLAM-VIOLENCE,LIES AND HIPOCRISY.Am glad they are 'exposing' themselves so even the dullest Infidel will know who they are and the Stone Age Cult they would impose upon us.In their Dreams...

Posted by: Morgane at September 21, 2006 8:51 PM

"""Catholics do not view salvation in the narrow Protestant sense of the word. We maintain that Islam does have some truth in it."""

Yes, and rat poison has SOME nutrition in it or the rat wouldn't eat it.

The devil is not stupid. Any false religion needs SOME truth to it...but it's the false part that will send folks to hell.

If Islam has ANY truth in it, it was truth that was taken from the OT & NT. Not truth that was given to a legitimate 'prophet' (Mohammed).

To respect and acknowledge Islam is to deny that there is ONE truth which is Jesus Christ and ONE gospel.

A willingness to accept other faiths as having legitimate value, is just what kind of thinking that is needed for one to be easily converted into the coming one-world religion under the anti-Christ.

As believers in Christ, we are to recognise that a person is either saved or lost...alive or spiritually dead and in need of salvation. There is ONE road to God and that is through Jesus Christ.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 21, 2006 9:12 PM

"We maintain that Islam does have some truth in it. We acknowledge what Muslims say: that the worship the God of Abraham."

- posted by Maggie4Life

Not this Catholic.

In my opinion Allah is Satan and Islam was conceived by Satan to distract and lead mankind, by threat and the point of the sword, away from Christ.

As Mary of Agreda writes in "The Mystical City of God", chapter 10, The Victory of Christ over Hell,

"in order that each squadron of demons might, with a specialized astuteness tempt men to different vices. They resolved to continue to propagate idolatry in the world, so that men might not come to the knowledge of the true God and the Redemption. Wherever idolatry would fail, they concluded to establish sects and heresies, for which they would select the most perverse and depraved of the human race as leaders and teachers of error. Then and there was concocted among these malignant spirits the sect of Mahomet."
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/7194/contents.html

Posted by: Mike_W at September 21, 2006 9:25 PM

I wholly support the bombing of Pakilund if they get Naseem.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 9:26 PM

Naseem---

What kind of smoke are you offering to pass around?

Is it some good stuff, or is it some really bad ----?

Posted by: SCV at September 21, 2006 9:35 PM

Quote:

"A recent study conducted by the Agha Khan Medical University concluded that 80% of the sampled children in Karachi had less than normal IQ level."

As would be for any child anywhere in the world who was denied the opportunity to be educated and learn how to be a respectible human being. Islamic "societies" teach their children only to hate Jews and Christians, and that killing for Allah is the highest duty that they can perform.

Take Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart as an infant, and put him into an Islamic "society," and you'll get a mouth-breathing, drooling imbecile.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at September 21, 2006 9:56 PM

Where is Pope Urban when we need him?

Posted by: David England at September 21, 2006 9:59 PM

Bohemond -- you crack me up!

Posted by: champ at September 21, 2006 10:06 PM

As usual, the radical Muslims get all the press.
Let's hear from the moderate ones for a change. Oh yeah-the only moderate Muslims are the dead ones.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at September 21, 2006 11:08 PM

Champ, TY.. The Goobs, the problem with islam is this: The koran says Jesus Christ is a prophet. If Jesus Christ IS a prophet, then His prophecies about His death on the cross and His resurrrection are correct which means the koran is wrong when it says "allah has no sons", for Jesus Christ called Himself the "Son of God" and made Himself equal to God when He said "My Father and I are One", and the koran says Jesus Christ did not die on the cross. If the koran is correct and Jesus Christ is NOT the Son of God and did not die on the cross then the koran is STILL wrong for calling Jesus Christ a prophet, because by God's standard in Deuteronomy 18, anyone who makes a false prophecy is a false prophet. Either way the koran is wrong and imperfect. And as all muslims know, God's word cannot have error in it.

Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 21, 2006 11:11 PM

We want the removal of all Islamic clerics and their banishment to South Shetland.

Posted by: rocky at September 21, 2006 11:38 PM

The point of the Church's teaching regarding Islam and other religions is as follows. St. Paul tells us God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth and that the one mediator between God and man is Christ (1 Timothy 2:4-5). God desires this, whether we like it or not. Some people throughout history have not and in the future possibly will not be able to hear the Good News of our salvation through Christ's life, redeeming death, and resurrection. If God in his plan of salvation speaks to these people through the voice of their consciences, and/or through whatever truthful elements of the religious tradition they have been exposed to if any, however imperfect, and they respond to God's voice and his grace to do good and avoid evil by his grace then they CAN be saved. The possibility exists. We don't know how, but with God all things are possible. BUT it is Christ who saves them, even if they never heard of him; when they meet him in heaven they will know that He saved them by his redeeming death. (Any other Catholics who read this and think I missed something or got it wrong, I stand ready to be corrected.)

Who would question the limits of God's mercy and his plan to save all men, in whatever way He chooses to do it, knowing that all men are saved by Christ? Should all men be condemned because by their own fault they have not been able to hear the good news of Christ's gospel?

From Dominus Iesus ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH August 2006

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

paragraph 22:

22. With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31).90 This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism “characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ‘one religion is as good as another'”.91 If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.92 However, “all the children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word, and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be more severely judged”.93 One understands then that, following the Lord's command (cf. Mt 28:19-20) and as a requirement of her love for all people, the Church “proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life (Jn 14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life”.94

The whole thing is worth reading for those interested in knowing the Church's teaching on Christ as the way, the truth, and the life.

Sorry for the long post.

Posted by: mojori at September 22, 2006 12:00 AM

The above should read:

Should all men be condemned because by no fault of their own they have not been able to hear the good news of Christ's gospel?

Posted by: mojori at September 22, 2006 12:02 AM

Another correction:

From Dominus Iesus ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH August 2000 (not 2006)

Long day.

Posted by: mojori at September 22, 2006 12:16 AM

Bohemond, you learning basic Hindi ? :)

Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 22, 2006 12:22 AM

"Yes, and rat poison has SOME nutrition in it or the rat wouldn't eat it.

The devil is not stupid. Any false religion needs SOME truth to it...but it's the false part that will send folks to hell."

What a marvellously malevolent world-view. Every faith other than Christianity is purely and simply a demonic creation to ensnare hapless souls, and merely believing falsehoods will send folks to hell. Your God, apparently, believes in thoughtcrime; He sends people to hell simply for failing to hold the right beliefs, even if they have no way to tell that their beliefs are false. How can you worship a being like that?

"To respect and acknowledge Islam is to deny that there is ONE truth which is Jesus Christ and ONE gospel."

This is a wonderful attitude. It was doubtless exactly what the Crusaders had in mind, when they went to Mass at the Holy Sepulcher with the blood of innocent men, women, and children still on them. Ah, but I forget, those were Muslim moon-worshippers, and moon-worshippers deserve no respect or acknowledgment, do they? The pagan Romans really did worship the moon, among other false gods. Yet St. Paul did not consider it wrong to respect and acknowledge what was right in their beliefs, as he did at Mars Hill. But, why should Catholics follow his example, when we have yours to imitate?

Which is genuinely un-Christian--the willingness to respect others and to value what is right in their beliefs, or the bigoted rejection of all non-Christians and their ideas as demonic? Who is really rejecting the Gospel?

"A willingness to accept other faiths as having legitimate value, is just what kind of thinking that is needed for one to be easily converted into the coming one-world religion under the anti-Christ."

Yes, we must always be careful of the seductive appeal of reason, goodwill, common sense, and humanity. All good Christians know that respect for others is merely one of the devil's many cunning stategems. These demons can serve only to keep our fanaticism and apocalyptic visions at bay, and that must lead straight to damnation. Far better to incite religious division, fan the flames of hatred, and babble about the End Times. This has worked so well in the past, it is sure to work one more time.

Posted by: anselm at September 22, 2006 2:19 AM

First to Anselm, you make some good points, even if I do not agree with all of your points. Since I am not freaked out about any coming one world religion (unless the warning relates to Mohammedism), then I remain unimpressed by Goobs and all the others who show so much bigotry towards the beliefs of others.

Second, to Mike W: I think that you missed the point entirely. As it happens I do think that Mohammed had an encounter with Satan. However, I am a reader of history, and from what I understand, Mohammed was influenced by the Arian heresy, which explains his denial of the Trinity. He was also familiar with the teachings of the Jews, as well as the paganism of his own region. That does not mean that I have to demean the name given to God by the Arab Christians - Allah. The fact is, Mohammed hijacked the name and created his own understanding of Allah to suit his own evil purposes. I see no reason to offend other Muslims on this board who belive in Allah who is their God, but not according to the way in which Mohammed taught the original cultists. These are people who are seeking truth, and we have the ability to lead them to the Truth by at least respecting their beliefs whilst showing them the way to Christ.

Third to Goobs: You need to learn to be more tolerant towards others. I am not talking about politcally correctness when I speak of tolerance. I am talking about learning to respect others so that they will in turn respect you. Jesus spoke out against many things, especially the injustices perpetuated by the ruling classes of his time. He tolerated the pagans and he taught the Apostles a valuable lesson about tolerance, and faith (reference: the Canaanite woman who begged Jesus to cure her daughter; also reference the Roman centurion who asked Jesus to cure his servant). In those days it was not the done thing to associate with pagans without being considered unclean. Jesus broke into those taboos. Should we behave like the Pharisees and Sadducees or should we follow the example of Jesus, and recognize what is good in the beliefs of others.

Fourth to Naseem: You do not know how silly and intolerant you sound. You seem to think that you are somehow superior to others, yet the diatribe that you spews shows your own inferiority, lack of understanding and lack of knowledge in spiritual matters. It would be a good thing if you took the poison that spews from your mouth and you doused your own kind with it.

Posted by: Maggie4Life at September 22, 2006 2:46 AM

I just saw on the Ignatius Press Blogsite that the Vatican's "apology" for the Pope was in Italian, using the words:

"sono rammaricato", which translates as "I am disappointed" or "I regret."

The English-speaking Press translated it as:

"I am deeply sorry"

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2006 3:43 AM

"We acknowledge what Muslims say: that the worship the God of Abraham. It is an acknowledgement that needs to be made, if we are going to be able to establish any form of dialogue with Muslims."

-posted by Maggie4Life

So you mean that I have missed the point that we need to establish a dialogue with Muslims, therefore we need to acknowledge that they worship the God of Abraham?

I'd prefer to go with Blessed Mary of Agreda's view of the truth about Islam rather than choose my facts to suit a desired solution.

In my opinion we are all born with an innate awareness of God and the ability to perceive God through our senses and through reason with our intellects.
So, I agree that it is possible for a Muslim to have an understanding of the one true God.
But that individual Muslim's understanding of God occurs despite of Islam not through Islam.

Apart from Mahommed's plagiarizing various Jewish and Christian texts I can see no link to Islam and the God of Abraham except perhaps, in a physical sense, Ishmael, that 'wild ass of a man'.
There is nothing remotely Abrahamic - as in the Judeo/Christian traditions of God - about Islam.

Certainly we should respect Muslims as God's creatures like ourselves, capable of learning the truth about redemption through Christ but I am not interested in respecting false and demonic beliefs.
Islam denies the divinity of Christ and teaches that Judas Iscariot died in Christ's place.
That reinforces my belief that the true author of Islam and identity of Allah is Satan.

I find your view a little patronizing towards Muslims.
Kind of like how one might treat a mental patient - humor them about their delusions while slowly leading them to a grasp of reality.
I'd prefer to call a spade a spade.

Posted by: Mike_W at September 22, 2006 4:42 AM

Assalamau Laikum Aethling,

You say "You want to mock the Pope for moral cowardice???"

Well no not really, I am just telling you how I see it.

You say "You people are too stupid to understand subtlety, therefore I'm going to hit you over the head with my not-so-subtle logic stick: *The Pope did not apologize or backpedal the words of the Emperor*".

The pope did NOT say what his own opinion on Islam was/is...why not that's my point on his lack of faith ..you call it moral cowardice.

Muslim say what they feel ...right down to the wire....no moral cowardice.

You say "ISLAM IS GOING DOWN. MECCA WILL NO LONGER EXIST. WE IN THE US ARE TIRED OF PUSSYFOOTING WITH YOU POISONOUS SCUM AND WE'RE GONNA VOTE FOR THE NEXT PRESIDENT WHO HAS THE BALLS TO NUKE MECCA."

Aethling...you sound ...really pissed off for me having a go at his hollowness. I think for the 1st time in your life you possibly will have known how muslims feel when their prophet gets ridiculed.

Aethling ...look at your words .....a little push on paper and the catholic dog of war comes out... ...just like the muslim ....not so surprising is it.

Aethling it just goes to show as "Maggie4ever" says "We are all sons and daughters of Abraham"...we all follow the one god ...Allah

Allah Hu Akhbar...say it Aethling.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it "brother".

Posted by: Naseem at September 22, 2006 5:33 AM

Naseem,

I wish Mr. Bush would have had THE BALLS TO NUKE MECCA right after 9/11.

You destroy our symbols, we destroy yours.

Tit for tat.

Posted by: rocky at September 22, 2006 6:19 AM

The pope did NOT say what his own opinion on Islam was/is...why not that's my point on his lack of faith ..you call it moral cowardice.

What islam does is objective. The Pope most likely meant that it is not his opinion that islam is evil but rather that it is an objective fact of reality. No opinion can alter reality. The opinion of the Pope matters little. What does matter is what the flock of all Christians not just the Roman Catholics can witness in the realm of objective reality.

Reason your way through it. Or does islam not permit one to use reason, logic, science, and history to form conclusions?

Just what do you think we see?

I think I speak for many when I say we see a retarded culture based on human sacrifice.

Posted by: mtriviso at September 22, 2006 6:21 AM

Naseem

As we used to say when we were kids
" sticks and stones will break my bones but words .."
yes but words dont mean a f***.
This goes for all you other 'ol boys out there - the Holly Father is playing you muslims - he is acheiving exactly what he has set out to do. You see it is not the muslims that he is playing to - its the west - the christians - he has opened up the question " is Islam violent" and also got you muslims to answer it in the definite affirmative.
He is showing the west just exactly what Islam and the Muslims are - violent - intolerant etc etc.
What teh Muslims think of the holy father is irrelevent - its what the west thinks of the muslims that is important now. This is part of a strategy to educate and mobilise the west . The holy father knows exactly what you people are and now so do more and more of the civilised west.
You see when we eventually wake up from our slumber and wake we will we will have more than words to solve this problem.
p.s. what chance for turkey to get into the EU now - FUCK ALL!!

Posted by: johnmac at September 22, 2006 9:34 AM

"Naseem":

"Muslim say what they feel ...right down to the wire....no moral cowardice."

You confuse "moral cowardice" with proper manners and decorum. You see, Pope Benedict cares about what Christ commanded his believers to love those who hate us. The Pope believed that when he was speaking about the Almighty, that he is a God of righteous rationality, not insanity, perpetual rage, and blood-letting.

"Muslims say what they feel..." which is a shame, because that is a condemnation of the Muslim's ability to use their minds. They just use whatever knee-jerk reaction comes to them. They are as impulsive as amoebas.

Allah is the god of insanity, perpetual rage, and blood-letting. Allah is the god of death and damnation. Allah is the god of ignorance and stupidity. Mohammed is Allah's false witness, a "prophet" who never prophesied.

Posted by: yohannbiimu at September 22, 2006 10:38 AM

""""Should all men be condemned because by no fault of their own they have not been able to hear the good news of Christ's gospel?

Posted by: mojorI""""

There are hundreds of millions, if not billions, who have heard the gospel of Christ and have rejected it. People even rejected Christ when he was here on earth - including the religious leaders of that day.

How do we know that those who haven't heard would believe if they did hear?

God knows who would and who would not believe, and we can be certain that He will somehow get the gospel to everyone who would embrace it.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 22, 2006 12:22 PM

Maggie4Life and Anselem,

One can be respectful of others having their own beliefs without agreeing with their beliefs.

The Christians I know, which you would label 'bigots' or 'narrow-minded' are not the kind of folks that go around threatening others if they do not convert or the kind that marches with Islamists or the kind that says that Jehovah and allah are the same.

So, you think that religious exclusivism does violence to man's right to freely choose his belief system? You probably think that God would never reject a sincerely held religious belief system. That there are many roads to God. Even though we are told by the Scriptures that salvation comes by hearing the Gospel (the power of God unto salvation) of Jesus Christ and believing it.

Reality demands that there be unchangable absolutes. For instance, without definite and predictable physical laws, the universe could not function. Is it not reasonable that spiritual reality should be just as definately defined?

Suppose you went to your doctor for his diagnosis and he replied "I wouldn't be so narrow-minded and dogmatic as to cme up with a definite diagnosis. What would you like? Open-heart surgery has been very popular lately; or I could transplant a kidney. I think EVERYONE is entitled to the operation of his/her choice. Would you trust yourself to that doctor?
How can you trust yourself to the equally foolish idea that anything goes with God? That he has no definite diagnosis of sin and no definite remedy?

Imagine being in an airplane and an announcment comes from the cockpit ...."I'm not narrow-minded and dogmatic. I'll just punch some buttons and see where it takes us. All directions lead to the same destination" Would you want to fly with that fool? Wouldn't you prefer a narrow-minded, dogmatic, fundamentalist pilot who KNOWS where he is going and follows the rules to get there?

Your take on religion would bring untter chaos and destruction if it were put into practice in ordinary life. So why should it be acceptable when it comes to one's eternal destiny? Do you think God is less concerned about things of the eternal spirit than of the temporal body? Hardly.

See John 3:16

It makes no sense to set out from LA to New York without a map. How foolish would it be to refuse a map because maps are too restrictive? How much more foolish to insist that ANY road, sincerely followed, will get a person to heaven?

To NOT share the truth with the lost (someone who is not saved by the blood of Jesus Christ), is UNLOVING. You can't really LOVE someone if you don't care if they end up in hell.

I'm not interested in being PC 'religiously' and you really shouldn't label bible-believing Christians as bigots. This isn't any different than the media calling someone like Robert Spencer a bigot because he speaks the truth about the danger and goals of Islam.

Serving Christ is certainly not about avoiding persecution from other's who call themselves Christian. It's not about being wishy washy so that folks do not label you a biggot. It's about doing the work of the Lord which he commanded us to do....to share the Gospel with the lost. To love the lost enough to tell them the truth.

Posted by: The Goobs at September 22, 2006 12:54 PM

Naseem-cowturd

Yes, I am angry. It's called "righteous anger" and unlike you animal Muslims I don't go rampaging through the city looking for Muslims to murder and mosquest to burn.

You will feel the collective anger of the U.S. soon.

Enjoy.

BTW, if you hold a placard for the world to see, make sure it's right side up.

PS- That tent you wear looks like crap.

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2006 2:53 PM

Naseem your puppet prophet is roasting in his own hell, his virgins all look like miniture osama! hahaha.. keep burning the pictures of the pope, keep on your burka while you can. Western patience is well known, but it will run out, my advice to you is keep a picture of mecca, so when your memory is low you can still look at while it stood.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at September 22, 2006 4:49 PM

"If the West does not change it's stance against islam, it will face severe consequences."

My first post. Actually, the above statement from the Iranian cleric is a true statement when read with an inference. If the West does not change its [APPEASING] stance against Islam, it will [INDEED} face severe consequences {of an Islamic threat].

Posted by: Gabriel_the_American at September 22, 2006 6:40 PM

does anyone know whether the definition of the word peace is different in islamic countries than in the west?

Posted by: MowhammedismyThug,SickofIslam,ProudInfidel at September 22, 2006 10:05 PM