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Pakistani protesters shout slogans to condemn Pope Benedict XVI for his remarks about Islam which hurt the sentiments of Muslims, Friday, Sept. 22, 2006 in Lahore, Pakistan. Protests continued to demand that Pope apologize fully for his remarks on Islam and violence. Placard on right reads 'Enemy of Islam, down with the illiterate Pope.' (AP Photo/K.M.Chaudary)
Tiny Minority of Extremists Update from AP, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:
JERUSALEM (AP) - Thousands of Muslim worshippers staged marches against Pope Benedict XVI in Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza on Friday, waving green Hamas banners and denouncing him as a "coward" and an "agent of the Americans."The demonstrations in the Middle East, as well as smaller rallies in Pakistan and Malaysia, came as Benedict invited representatives of Muslim countries to meet Monday at his summer residence, the Vatican said....
At Islam's third-holiest shrine, the Al Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem, hundreds of worshippers hoisted black flags and banners that read, "Conquering Rome is the answer." Protesters chanted, "The army of Islam will return." The march dispersed peacefully.
In the West Bank city of Nablus, Hamas supporters took to the streets after prayers, shouting slogans against the pope and waving Hamas flags. Raising their hands to the sky, the more than 2,000 protesters chanted: "We put up with hunger, detention and occupation, but we won't put up with the offending the prophet. We sacrifice our lives for you prophet."
Marching in the streets of Nablus, the protesters called the pope a "coward and agent of the Americans."
In northern Gaza, more than 1,000 Islamic Jihad supporters shouted in praise of the prophet, and waved black flags. Khader Habib, an Islamic Jihad leader, told the crowd that the pope's comments "indicate that this pope doesn't understand Islam or the prophet."
Actually, the murderous violence, threats and intimidation of Pope Rage suggests that he, or Manuel II Paleologos at least, understands Islam and the prophet quite well.
In Ramallah, hundreds of Hamas supporters marched around the city center.Hundreds of radical Islamists chanting "Down with the pope" rallied in several Pakistani cities.
More than 500 supporters of a coalition of six Islamic parties, called Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal, or MMA, demanded the pope's removal and accused him of supporting the policies of President Bush.
"If I get hold of the pope, I will hang him," Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a senior MMA leader, told protesters in Islamabad, who carried placards reading "Terrorist, extremist Pope be hanged!" and "Down with Muslims' enemies!"
Strange that "...on the cross," the second part of Hafiz Hussain Ahmed's threat, seems to have vanished.
In Karachi, another MMA leader, Ghafoor Ahmed, accused the pope of wanting to force "Christians and Muslims against each other.""We condemn the pope. We will not tolerate insulting remarks against Islam or our Prophet Muhammad," Ahmed said at a protest that drew about 300 people.
Another 200 rallied in the eastern city of Lahore, while several dozen protested in Multan.
The demonstrations came a day after 1,000 clerics and religious leaders met in Lahore and called for the pope's removal and warned the West of consequences if it didn't change its stance regarding Islam.
Thursday's meeting was organized by radical Islamic Jamaat al-Dawat group, which runs schools, colleges and medical clinics. In April, Washington put the group on a list of terrorist organizations for its alleged links with militants fighting in the Indian part of Kashmir.
After the meeting, a statement was issued demanding the West "change its stance regarding Islam (or) it will face severe consequences." It did not elaborate.
It also said that jihad was not terrorism and that "Islam was not propagated with the sword."
Malaysia's opposition Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party staged demonstrations outside mosques nationwide, calling for the pope to fully retract his remarks. In Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia's largest city, some 150 party members chanted "Stop the insults" and held a banner that read "We Muslims are peace-loving people."
Of course. Just pay no attention to that nun-shooting, or to the thousands upon thousands of acts of violence perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam since 9/11.
Posted by Robert at September 23, 2006 8:45 AM
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Savages, the lot of 'em.
And yet every day I'm online I read about person after person (or group after group) comparing Christianity to Islam as if they were remotely similar.
Posted by: Mo![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 23, 2006 9:05 AM
Perhaps if they spent a little more time in school and a little less time rioting in the streets, they could learn to spell.....I didn't know that Muhammad was "HOLLY" prophet....as one of their signs reads.
at September 23, 2006 9:06 AM
Mo' was no prophet let alone a "HOLLY" one. http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/proofs.html
Posted by: dennisw at September 23, 2006 9:13 AM
"Holly prophet Mohammed..."
Hmmm, I didn't know Muslims even celebrated Christmas. Fa la la la la etc...
at September 23, 2006 9:19 AM
"Benedict invited representatives of Muslim countries to meet Monday at his summer residence..."Will he offer more equivocating blather or once again speak clearly and forcefully about Islam? Advance or retreat? His erratic behavior these past 2 weeks has not been encouraging.
at September 23, 2006 9:23 AM
*yawn* Obviously they have *way* too much time on their hands and equally obvious they have *no* idea of what the Pope actually said.
Posted by: fireangel at September 23, 2006 9:29 AM
..."It also said that jihad was not terrorism and that "Islam was not propagated with the sword."
And we'll kill you if you don't believe that.
Posted by: arjun.sevak at September 23, 2006 9:39 AM
an Islamic Jihad leader, told the crowd that the pope's comments "indicate that this pope doesn't understand Islam or the prophet."
The truth of the matter is that the Pope really understands Isalm and their murderous cult leader
mohammud. The more these islamic monsters protest and burn, the more they wake up the PC crowd in the West. keep protesting and burning you foolish muslim
horde, you show youselves quite well.
at September 23, 2006 9:43 AM
Mo wrote:
"...every day I'm online I read about person after person (or group after group) comparing Christianity to Islam as if they were remotely similar."Including Pope Benedict, who quoted Nostra Aetate this past week:
The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God[...] finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting."So the Vatican declares that Muslims and Christians worship the same God? But I thought Muslims worship Allah. Is the Pope saying Catholics also worship Allah? And that Muslims value "the moral life", same as Catholics? -- well they sure have a funny way of showing it.
It's all very confusing. Maybe the Pope will clear this up on Monday.
Posted by: Zeno at September 23, 2006 9:43 AM
Would Americans marching in Washington hold up signs in Arabic? Would French people in Paris hold up signs in Chinese? Would Chinese in Tienanmen Square hold up signs in Spanish?
Of course not. But all over the Muslim world, there have been signs, often badly spelled, but often too carefully printed in many copies, and always in English.
Why?
Just as the "Palestinians" always hold up signs in English when they wish to denounce Israel or the United States, the Muslim protestors want to be caught on television, want to make sure that their slogans are seen by the Western -- i.e., English-speaking public.
These are not spontaneous demonstrations. They are carefully planned. They are orchestrated. They are intended not to convince the Infidels, but to scare them. They are part of the propaganda of the Jihad -- the part that says "strike terror" in the hearts of all those who would dare to oppose the spread of Islam. And the Pope, and anyone at all who dares to suggest that Islam is not quite so wonderful as Muslims are taught to think it is, is daring to oppose the spread of Islam.
And to threaten him, to promise to crucify him, to call for the destructio of churches and murder of Christians in Gaza and elsewhere that Muslims rule, to scream that the Vatican will be ours, no all of Rome will be ours, no all of Italy, all of Europe, and eventually the whole Infidel world will be ours -- "morgen die ganze Welt" -- is part of the emotional terrorism that, alas, in many places, including the editorial boards of some well-known newspapers, appears to be working.
But really -- for how long? How long will this continue, until a sufficient number of people in the West, or in the rest of the non-Muslim world, finally realize that whatever the differences within their own ranks, they are as nothing compared to the abyss that separates Islam from all the rest?
Posted by: Hugh at September 23, 2006 9:49 AM
So muslims view a pedophile/ rapist/ slaver/ muurderer/ caravan robber/ warlord/ terrorist/ lousy poet as their "holy... pride and honor"? No wonder they so-called "religion" is so f*cked up.
Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at September 23, 2006 11:11 AM
Zeno:
Without trying to anticipate anything the Pope might say or not say on the topic your question raises, I think its safe to say this much.
Since the word "Allah" simply means God (or more specifically "the God" - the grammatical use of the determiner "the" for proper nouns follows from grammatical rules found in other languages as well, such as Greek) I think we can safely conclude that the intent and understanding among Moslems is the worship of the one God. The word "God" after all, is generic.
The problem is that the profile that Islamic theology projects upon this one God is one that, in many respects, is often very different from that ascribed to him by Christian and Jewish theology. It would seem, though I'm far from expert in this, that Islam's "theological ontology" if I can put it that way, is influenced by a confusing array of Gnostic, pagan and Monotheistic sources, including, according to others who post in this forum, the ancient Arabic moon god, whom pre-Islamic Arab religion had already come to identify as the supreme - and therefore the "one" - God. The outcome of all of this is that Islam believes in the "One God" in principle, a principle that Catholic theology, of course, is bound to agree with, but Islamic religion and ethics end up being driven by completely different imperatives than their Judeo-Christian couterparts. Sincere, honest, peaceful Muslims, striving to act according to the dictates of conscience and seeking genuine holiness are, of ourse, seeking the one God. By definition, since there is only one, this is the same God that Christians and Jews worship.
So the statement of the Pope and of Nostra Aetate, which draws on an earlier statement of Pope St. Gregory VII, are consistent with Catholic doctrine, but this does not alter the fact that the Islamic view of God is problematic for Christians. I think we have to conclude that if there was a supernatural force influencing Mohammed's experiences, it was, at least beginning in the years when his "revelations" began to assume their violent character, not the One God, but an imposter.
Posted by: templar at September 23, 2006 1:20 PM
Islam WAS indeed spread by the sword--so who cares if these morons tell us lies to the contrary, since we all know for a fact they're lies anyway.
It's no wonder that Muslims can't stop telling lies about Islam, because like APF said, Islam is so rotten that telling the truth about it can be construed as defamation. Now,
THAT'S ROTTEN.
Posted by: pythagoras at September 23, 2006 1:54 PM
"Benedict invited representatives of Muslim countries to meet Monday at his summer residence..."
Will he offer more equivocating blather or once again speak clearly and forcefully about Islam?
More blather. He won't dare speak forcefully about islam at this point
Advance or retreat?
Full retreat; as quickly as possible.
His erratic behavior these past 2 weeks has not been encouraging
If he wants to keep the church alive he must do what what it takes to make that happen.
Frankly, if the isalmics are willing to murder nuns I cringe at the thought of his longevity under the circumstances.
If the pope calls for a crusade against islam -- I'll go down to the nearest archdiosis and join!
Neither will happen -- and I have a bad feeling that the last Pope named Peter; may soon be named.
IF THIS POPE WOULD STAND HIS GROUND AND BE AS FORCEFUL AS THE POPE IN 1854 WHO (I need to look it up, but I thought it was Pious X) SPOKE OUT AGAINST DEMOCRACY -- THIS POPE WOULD ENJOY A VERY LONG TIME IN OFFICE!
Unfortunately, I don't see this ending good.
at September 23, 2006 2:14 PM
Witness:
It would be best not to pre-judge the Pope's words or actions. There is likely something much greater, a grand design, at play here that will take some time to emerge clearly into the light of day, something much bigger than what he might say in any one particular statement on any one given day.
I suggest you take a look at the latest article over at www.chiesa.espressonline.it, especially sections 3 and 4 of that posting.
I believe Sandro Magister has a contact inside the Vatican, perhaps more than one. He certainly has keen insight into what's going on, and seems to be very good at knowing what is being planned there and what the Holy See intends to do. He is seldom, if ever, wrong.
The Pope must be cautious, taking the safety of Christians in the Islamic world into account, and will consider his words accordingly, but I don't think we should conclude that he is simply going to be intimidated into silence, much less that that is what has happened so far.
Posted by: templar at September 23, 2006 3:16 PM
Its troo! I always sed
Popp is ilitterit!
at September 23, 2006 3:23 PM
Zeno,
Templar explained very well the Church's "regard" for Islam.
I think Benedict's desire to converse with Muslim leaders is an attempt to find common ground with them.
Muslims are monotheist. So are Christians. That's common ground. What Benedict would like to propose is that the God of Christians, who is the God of Abraham and Moses, is also the Allah who Muslims worship.
However, the Muslim's perception of Allah is twisted. That is where the heresy begins. The Pope's duty is to gently explain that the God of Christians revealed Himself fully to us through the person of His Son, Jesus Christ.
Seriously, do you think the Pope is going to initially tell us men of the west to fight Islam before trying to use diplomacy and conversion? All men of reason wish to find non violent means to solve problems without compromising their positions and the Pope is doing just that.
He just appointed a new Secretary of State, much to the dismay of the Curia insiders. Those insiders are "politicians", who are largely responsible for the weak, watered-down, lame appeasement policies we have witnessed over the decades. This new Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio, is not a diplomat. He is an evangelical cardinal, a true "pastor of souls", not a politician; he assumed his new office on the 15th of September. The former Secretary of State, Cardinal Sodano, a career diplomat, who accompanied the Pope to Bavaria, was not given a copy of the Pope's speech at Regensburg, for if he had been given it, he would have insisted on censuring the Pope's words. The fact that the Pope did not give Sodano a copy of his speech indicates that the Holy Father is deliberately taking a new approach to the issue of Islam.
Where else can the Pope start? He wants to save Europe from Islam. His first hope is to convert Islam with reason - to open their eyes to the possibility of looking at their faith and their Allah with a new mind and heart. He must try this. And if they refuse to hear his words, then he may end up doing what the Lord advised to his disciples in the event that their proseltyzing is rejected:
"Whatever place does not welcome you or listen to you, leave there and shake the dust off your feet in testimony against them." Mk 6:11
Posted by: atheling at September 23, 2006 3:57 PM
LOL, Templar, that's exactly the source from where I got my info!
Yes, chiesa is excellent and provides insight to the Vatican.
I find Fr. Fessio's talk about his "secret" visit with the Pope very telling.
Posted by: atheling at September 23, 2006 4:10 PM
Lahore, multan, rawalpindi and many other towns are in flames.
There is a deliberate attempt to fan aggression and deception in these regions by the local people.
The local people are further inflamed by inspired and deadly speeches by Mullahs and ayatollahs.
Well financed and motivated punjabi-arab axis of evil will not stop till the whole world is islamised.
The pope's comments are just an excuse for punjabi-arab axis to go that extra mile to pursue jihad
Posted by: mystichealer at September 23, 2006 4:58 PM
Thanx for the note, Atheling. There's certainly a lot more going on than meets the eye.
Keep your chin up, everyone! There's more to come.
"May you live in interesting times", says the ancient Chinese curse, and we certainly do. Interesting times in the past, have often brought about tremendous good once the dust of the crisis settles.
Somewhere, a long time, ago I read, and I'm sure its true, that at the root of every genuine curse is a blessing.
Posted by: templar at September 23, 2006 5:35 PM
Do these people EVER engage in any useful activities like going to work? They seem to have plenty of time marching and shrieking every single day about the usual things. Can you imagine if these losers spent all this time bettering their lives and countries rather than venting their spleens at every perceived slight? Building a better life for oneself seems more productive than attempting to destroy other people's accomplishments.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at September 23, 2006 9:30 PM
"If I get hold of the pope, I will hang him (on the cross)," Hafiz Hussain Ahmed, a senior MMA leader, told protesters in Islamabad, who carried placards reading "Terrorist, extremist Pope be hanged!" and "Down with Muslims' enemies!"
..................
Yes, the Pope is the terrorist extremist, but look who is threatening to crucify him.
Likewise, of course, Islam was not spread by the sword. No, the rapid spread of Islam throughout the Arabian peninsula, to Mesopotamia and Persia and North Africa was just the result of self defense.
from the Koran:
"Fight against them until idolotry is no more and God's relgion (Islam, of course) reigns supreme"
and
"Idolotry is more grevious than bloodshed"
Posted by: gravenimage at September 23, 2006 9:34 PM
but I don't think we should conclude that he is simply going to be intimidated into silence, much less that that is what has happened so far.
Well templar, I'm not catholic but I hope you are right!
While you and I will disagree vigorously over things like "the papacy," I would be very angry if something happens to him -- especially, because of this whole quotation business.
I will check out that website:
www.chiesa.espressonline.it
at September 23, 2006 10:54 PM
I like the line on the banner that a pedophile is their pride and honor.
Suits their general idiocy.
Posted by: rocky at September 24, 2006 4:57 AM
It strikes me that the Muslim world's reaction to the Pope's comments is just a huge case of projectionism. The Islamic intolerance of all criticism suggests to me that deep down most Muslims know that their 'faith' is morally and intellectually indefensible, so all free discussion on it HAS to be stymied. Yet subconsciously the truth about their violent creed is still there, hence all the manic, desperate projection onto the 'Terrorist' Pope and his minions such as devoted nuns in Somalia.
Posted by: Koranophobe at September 25, 2006 7:18 AM
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