What a brave man. The least the rest of the news industry can do is publicise what has happened.

The public generally (and those idiots on the Left in particular) need to become totally disgusted with these maniacs. Only then will the politicians feel the need to start acting.

Posted by: Celsius at September 29, 2006 5:59 PM

Prudence and Moderation. Yes, that is what is necessary for one to live as this world is increasingly threatened by our peaceful friends.

Are any of the one billion, 300 million Muslims ready to kill this gentleman employees of the state? Would the act of killing him show prudence and moderation? If not, what shall the punishment be?

Posted by: Alara at September 29, 2006 6:05 PM

Prudence and Moderation?

I said yesterday on this site: "Our tolerence will do us in someday"

I guarantee you, there is not one government in the world who has the foresight and the guts to stand up to the rising islamic threat until it becomes way, way, way too late.

Posted by: sounder at September 29, 2006 6:09 PM

Muslims=Thugs

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at September 29, 2006 6:16 PM

To show your support, please sign the petition on ResilienceTV :
http://www.resiliencetv.fr/modules/epetitions/petitions.php?petitionid=14
The translation of the text of the petitions is the following :
There have been death threats against a courageous professor of philosophy, Robert Redeker, and his whole family (he must change dwellings every nights as recommended by the special services of anti-terror police). These death threats started a day after the ban of a Mozart Opera in Germany(because of the decapitated heads of Poseidon, Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad). and a few days after Pope Benedict's speech on the impossibility of a rational link between God and violence.... Robert Redeker has just declared that he is not supported by teachers' labour unions, nor by his ministry. Show him that he is not alone any more !!! You can post your comments (see at the end of page) We invite you to sign this petition.

Posted by: brubos at September 29, 2006 6:17 PM

Gilles de Robien, the Education Minister, yesterday expressed "solidarity" with M Redeker, but also warned that "a state employee must show prudence and moderation in all circumstances".

There's always a "but." Freedom of speech is essential, but... people should be allowed to say what they want to, but...

The "but" is usually followed by "freedom of speech is not freedom to offend" or "religion must be respected." You are free to have any opinion you want to, as long as it's the correct one.

Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at September 29, 2006 6:24 PM

Dominique de Villepin, the French Prime Minister, said that the threats were "unacceptable".

Yes,that is very very unacceptable and very naughty too. Furthermore, it's downright mean. A great defense against death threats coming for a head of state. No doubt that is all he will do, lest he provoke another round of Ramadamn riots.

Redeker and his family should be allowed into the US as refugees since they are true victims of oppression.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at September 29, 2006 6:29 PM

Yipee! Now we have another religious and holy obligation to KILL! KILL! KILL! KILL! How dare you call us and the Quran a religion of violence.

Posted by: elbowroom at September 29, 2006 6:35 PM

Actually, only 1 billion 299.9 million. The other hundred thousands are "moderates", who are only ready to watch and cheer.

Posted by: Infidel33 at September 29, 2006 6:40 PM

Mr Redeker just discovered the consequences of not recognizing the PC atmosphere that exists in France vis a vis Muslims. Totally glossed over the anti-Semitism that existed. How else could he have later stated with a straight face that 'the education ministry had left him alone and abandoned. He said the ministry "has not even contacted me, has not deigned to get in touch to see if I need any help."'? Did he not see this coming?

Okay, just this year alone, we had the Danish cartoon rage, the plot to blow up 12 planes, the Pope rage, the Berlin opera cancellation, and now this. Eurabia, what exactly is your tipping point? Or is it that having endured the White Nazis the last millenium, do you think that it's now the turn of the Arab Nazis?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 29, 2006 6:59 PM

RS,

Sounder, said: "there is not one government in the world who has the foresight and the guts to stand up to the rising islamic threat until it becomes way, way, way too late."

He is so absolutely correct. This was the French governments response in your story above: "a state employee must show prudence and moderation in all circumstances". THIS is the official state response. Probably because the state doesn't want their beautiful marble office buildings blown up.

Until it is the official STATE opinion that islam and muslims must go (when WILL that ever happen,) this is what will happen to me if they can find me. And a whole lot of other JW visitors. Right now, today. And you know it, RS.

Stop beating around the bush, RS. Tell us the truth, RS. Tell us, directly, here at JW, that if I call a press conference tomorrow and tell a truth about islam, some muslims will begin their hunt for me, and not rest until my head no longer meets my neck. Are you willing to say this, so succintly, here? RS?

Posted by: Art Cove at September 29, 2006 7:34 PM

re. the comments and emails such as this one this poor brave French teacher received:

[
Another e-mail says: "You will never again be safe on this earth. One billion, 300 million Muslims are ready to kill you."
]

And what happened to that small minority of violent moslems? 1.3 BN sure seems LIKE ALL OF THEM to me!

Surement, monsieur le mufti, vos deconnes, n'est-ce pas?

I wish the brave M. Redeker all the best! Merci, merci MILLE FOIS, Monsiuer Redeker pour avoir la courage!!!

VIVE LA RESISTANCE!!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at September 29, 2006 7:37 PM

Note to Ynkedoodl2, re: nariz... he (she?) is a long-time (muslim?) troll, bent on creating a divisive atmosphere under the guise of a 'secularist' with an extreme hatred of Christians. Engage at risk!

Have a good, Safe weekend, everyone.

Posted by: Gary at September 29, 2006 7:43 PM

The West is weak and reeks of it. Like a dog Islam sniffs it out.

We must find our strength again by a return to our Christian roots. Where is our zeal for the Truth--Islam does not even possess the truth yet their zeal exceeds ours.

http://www.realclearreligion.com

Posted by: genevieve at September 29, 2006 7:50 PM

I have been reading "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance". After the reaction to the Pope's speach, I was beginning to wonder if we were all dhimmi's, and we just hadn't relized we gave up and surrendered.

Now, from all places, France, (who knew?) a proffesor with courage. Where is all the news media outrage?? Where's Katie Couric, with relevent news?? Where's 60 minutes?? Did anyone hear anything about it in the media?? I didn't.
I mean they gave the muslim rage over the Pope's message for days. I guess its ok to ignor the whole muslim-murder thing, after all free speach is dead, right?.
Play it safe media, ignor it at least until he's dead, safer yet buried, Hey, lets just forget the whole thing.

Posted by: Aprilyn at September 29, 2006 7:54 PM

These are animals posing as human beings who are making these threats. I say cage 'em and hook 'em up to the electric chair before they carry out this horrific crime.

The electric chair is merciful, compared to what was threatened to be done to this poor teacher and his family. Capital punishment would be more than just.

Posted by: champ at September 29, 2006 8:06 PM

I read the article by Redeker (the other is just too long for my poor brain right now.)

Wow, for this he is getting death threats? How terrifying this must be.

WHY isn't this sort of thing being shouted from the headlines? Why, oh why? How utterly maddening.

Posted by: Mo at September 29, 2006 8:15 PM

"a state employee must show prudence and moderation in all circumstances".

Sounds like the motto embroidered on a f-cking Puritan sampler. Don't mean to offend the feminists but he is what down South they used to call "an old maid in britches".

God save Europe.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at September 29, 2006 8:20 PM

Dominique de Villepin, the French Prime Minister, said : "We are in a democracy, everyone has the right to express his views freely -- of course while respecting others. That is the only restriction that is acceptable on this freedom.

Always with the disclaimer about "respecting others." Does that hold for Nazis Mr. Dominique "Philippe Pétain" de Villepin? What a dhimmi-coward, with that disclaimer his defence of Robert Redeker is meaningless. Freedon of speech actually includes the right to be disrespectful. One only has to read the quotes from Democrats about President Bush to see what I mean.

Posted by: Pelayo at September 29, 2006 8:28 PM

Both the article by Redeker, and his description of his current plight, sent to his friend Andre Glucksmann, are harrowing.

I urge others to read the entire text at Michelle Malkin's website, and to sent Redeker's article, and Egon Flaig's article, and Redeker's description of his current situation, far and wide, urbi et orbi. To everyone you can possibly think of, and then have them send it on again to everyone else.

Only thus.

Posted by: Hugh at September 29, 2006 8:57 PM

only muslims get to say bad things....everyone knows that....

Posted by: chrisinsouthc at September 29, 2006 9:12 PM

I wonder if Voltaire ever dreamt that his play re Mohammad (which was really an attack on the dogmatic fanaticism of the Church of his time) would ever really be about Mohammad in 2006. Voltaire would probably say modern Muslims have the same demented mind as the narrow self-serving clergy of his time, that it cannot create any new science, any great universities, or defend itself by reason, that soon all the world will laugh at "the perfect man" of Islam as living in the best of all possible Muslim worlds.

Posted by: Frank at September 29, 2006 9:38 PM

We are in a demon-oacy, everyone has the right to express his views freely -- of course while respecting others. That is the only restriction that is acceptable on this freedom.
unless of course you refuze to be a good litte diimmti and tell the truth about islam the vilent evil cult then the relegion of peace and its followers will fill you or try to kill you

Posted by: islamakapigeaters at September 29, 2006 9:50 PM

Moi, aussi, Monsieuer Redeker. Je vous remercie et souhaite la securite et sante pour vous et votre famille. Vous avez dit la verite, et la verite ne passera pas pour eternite, malgre le malin des hommes.

I do thank God for those who are joining Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald and many others in speaking out against the evil teaching of Islam.

Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty at September 29, 2006 9:59 PM

Two points:

On FOX tonite, Newt(whom I respect and admire) reminded us how happy the folk in Kabul were after being allowed to listen to music, put the woman clothing into mothballs. He reminded us there is just a tiny minority of 'fascists' who are the problem. When pressed by Bill he threw off something like maybe 5-10 %. Come on Newt: you are way too smart for that! First, even if you really believe that, isn't 5-10 % enough to make a whole lot of trouble! I reject this whole aspect of labeling everything. Fascism. Yea, there are some issues in common, others not so common. Islam is a political ideology of supremcy, but also a religion. Nazis were more contrained by geography if nothing else; Islam is far from constrained. There are Mosques in each state. Too say, "Islam means peace, but there is a tiny minority of deviant fascists within it" is deceptive and wrong. One, while Newt is a very bright guy, is he Robert Spencer? Has he really studied Islam? Here again we get this naive crap so out of touch with reality. Second, you really don't understand the fabric of the closed system of Islam, so once again this talk about "a tiny minority of extremists who pevert the word of Islam?"Who is Newt to understand that point? Has he read the Koran? Are traditional Catholics wrong? Have they hijacked Christianity? Has Falwell? Don't ask me, I'm Jewish=). What I mean is if one hasn't read James, Luke ect(I've only read the Sermon on the Mount and watched The Passion), how on gods green earth can you really say, "Falwell or whomever or whatever sect of Christianity has hijacked the faith."

My aim here IS NOT to compare Falwell or Catholicism to Islam. My aim here IS TO show that people who don't understand or have studied a religion to make these blanket statements is just off kilter. This is not confined to Newt or the GOP, but to all of our country. To assume that 'all people are good, and all three faiths of Abraham believe pretty much the same thing' is just as wrong as saying, 'a tiny minority of fascists hijacked a great religion which means peace.' Who knows more about Islam? Bush or BinLaden? Condi or protestors the world over? And if you don't understand a religion, and if you fail to grasp its closed system, its total commitment, its emphasis on the sword, its regard for nonbelievers, its demand for action, its total political philosophy, its policy of deception, how can you possibly know who are the deviants? I now consider myself self educated on Islam, but not an expert. Look at the so-called neoconservative school of foreign policy . . . Wolfowitz, Rummie, W whom believe democracy is the tonic for 'the trouble in the middle east.' Then look at the neo con haters like Chris Mathews or many other left singers. Do these two groups share anything in common. Yes. A total lack of understanding that Islam is more than just a religion.

Point II: Others might agree with the scourge of Jihadist growth, but would urge 'restraint,' 'understanding' and 'capitulation.' This too shows a lack of understanding of Islam. For there is no true capitulation except dhimmitude. Crtical mass of Islamic immigration? 1-5-10-15 %? What is the magic number where youths burn down half of Detroit? We have a healthy dose of dhimmitude with just a few percent!

My larger point: one can be resolute, bright, honest and polite at the same time. Ever see Robert Spencer shout down an opponent or resort to personal smear? I havene't. He uses quotes(in context) and facts to make his arguement. Look at the latest Pope(My Pope if I might say with true admiration). He's both a scholar, a realist, using fact and the long sword of history to make points. The whacked-out response only proves his point. But many in the press and other segments of society attack him! or attack a lampooning cartoonist! or scholar! Shut down the debate! For it is Islam itself that cannot stand scrutiny, cannot stand the purity of open inspection, cannot stand a "dialogue among equals' between Catholics and Muslims or Jews and Muslims. This is the point--and, of course, the central problem as well.

The response of Islam to free speech, to satire, to woman and to open debate has done more to turn the West against her than any terror attack against NYC, for it shows that the issue is not 'a tiny minority of fascists beheading a great religion,' but rather the multidimensional, closed system of Islam itself.

Posted by: biorabbi at September 29, 2006 10:00 PM

Re: A philosophy teacher today described how he was forced into hiding after a newspaper article in which he attacked Islam provoked death threats against himself and his family."

Robert Redeker is a Candide character who has to listen to Muslim and Multi-cultural Pangloss tell him that everything is for the best, that there is no effect without a Koranic cause in the best of all possible Muslim worlds. I'll bet Voltaire would would a hilarios play about this and have his life threatened by Muslims. But Voltaire would win in the end, will win in the end.

Posted by: Frank at September 29, 2006 10:06 PM

Jesus Saves.
Islam Raves.
Burma Shaves.

Posted by: Hugh at September 29, 2006 10:07 PM

I'll bet Voltaire would write a hilarious play about this and have his life threatened by Muslims. But Voltaire would win in the end, will win in the end.

Posted by: Frank at September 29, 2006 10:08 PM

Hugh-

I'll bet you could write a Candide type satire on all this. And you would not have to hide because you are really a KGB agent that no one has ever seen. But seriously-I'll bet you could write a great satire similar to Candide re Islam....

Posted by: Frank at September 29, 2006 10:18 PM

Henry -

Perhaps the way around being 'religiously correct' with Muslims is to stop thinking of Islam as a religion. The more I study this so-called religion, the more I'm convinced that it's a political system DISGUISED as a religion.

If you remove the notion that this is a religion, then certain short and long-term strategies become very clear -- like -- this political system has got to be completely and utterly destroyed!!

I'm all for treating religions with respect, but that is not what we're dealing with.

Posted by: champ at September 29, 2006 10:34 PM

In other words -- we need to bomb the crap out of Iran and other terrorist entities.

Posted by: champ at September 29, 2006 10:38 PM

Brubos, thanks for sharing the petition with us and I did sign it. It's a bit difficult if you don't know French, but I'm sure the intelligent readers at Jihad Watch will figure it out. I do sympathize with that poor man, and Dominique de Villepin is an ass.

I'm beginning to have nightmares from Muslims, reading these stories daily of their brutal crimes against innocents around the world. I am so aware, but yet so helpless to stop it alone.

Posted by: Bonniea at September 29, 2006 10:47 PM

I read Redeker's article and listened to an interview.
He is a person of integrity who loves European values and would like Europe to remain European.
He stood for what the pope said.

My impression is that increasingly average Europeans will drift away from multiculturalism forever.
Multiculturalism has failed because a certain religion (Islam) has been allowed to disrespect the rules of the multicultural game.

Islam thinks it can get away with its blatant lack of respect for other religions, ways of life and opinions.

Posted by: rocky at September 29, 2006 11:34 PM

I think that we are looking at a true Theocracy here. It is much like the political systems that we see around the time of Christ. I do believe that Islam is much more than a religion. It has elements of socialism in it. It has economic values. It has a class system of citizenship. It is truly multi-dimensional as described above.

The best thing that can be done is expose it to the light. The light of truth about Islam will destroy it.

God willing, of course.

Posted by: credit man at September 29, 2006 11:41 PM

Ah, the religion of peace. And another interesting tidbit is that the New Age followers, and other anti-war-on-terrorism folks think that Islam and Christianity are mirror images of each other, just as dangerous as the other. Just ask Rosie O'Donnell. Thing is, I can't seem to locate where in the Bible it states to behead unbelievers, and I don't ever recall reading in the news about Christian Jihadists with explosives strapped to their bodies killing children and innocent civilian pawns.

Posted by: Douglas V. Gibbs at September 29, 2006 11:45 PM

Gilles de Robien, the Education Minister, yesterday expressed "solidarity" with M Redeker, but also warned that "a state employee must show prudence and moderation in all circumstances".

Gilles de Robien, the Education Minister, yesterday expressed disagreement with the would-be murderers of M Redeker, but also warned that "people can't be expected to hold back from murdering imprudent state employees."

Posted by: traeh at September 30, 2006 12:32 AM

Gilles de Robien is basically putting the blame on Redeker.

The spirit of Vichy France lives on in people like that cowardly Education Minister, only that now the enemy is not Nazism but Islam.

Posted by: rocky at September 30, 2006 1:30 AM

Genevieve said:

"Where is our zeal for the Truth--Islam does not even possess the truth yet their zeal exceeds ours."

The Second Coming

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with a lion body and the head of a man.
A gaze as blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

William Butler Yeats

Posted by: atheling at September 30, 2006 1:55 AM

Rocky you are correct.

Blame the victim.

You made be do it.

You made me feel this way.

You know all of the co-dependency stuff.

These are all familiar Islamic sayings.

God willing, of course

Posted by: credit man at September 30, 2006 1:56 AM

Infidel Pride wrote:

Eurabia, what exactly is your tipping point? Or is it that having endured the White Nazis the last millenium, do you think that it's now the turn of the Arab Nazis?

The truth is Europe (especially France) was playing with Nazis in hope they would crush Soviet Union, which they fear (and rightfully) the most. Taking into consideration european anti-semitism on the genetic level the death of millions of Jew wouldn't be too much a price for that. Europe still thinks that it can do dirty work with the hands of Arab Nazis, but today's target is USA.

Posted by: Hell Awaits at September 30, 2006 2:03 AM

M. de Robien would be well advised to remember that "Ueberlieferungsgeschichte...is a longer and nobler name than fudge

(Housman).

Dominic.

Posted by: necessitasnonhabetlegem at September 30, 2006 2:11 AM

Atheling:
Yeats' poem surely never seemed more fitting than it does today.

Posted by: traeh at September 30, 2006 2:21 AM

Professor Redeker's article has this interesting insight:

"This opening to others, specific to the West, is a secularization of Christianity that can be summarized thus:the other person must come before myself. The Westerner, heir to Christianity, is the that exposes his soul bare. He runs the risk of being seen as weak. With the same ardor as Communism, Islam treats generosity, broadmindedness, tolerance, gentleness, freedom of women and of manners, democratic values, as marks of decadence. They are weaknesses that it seeks to exploit, by means of useful idiots, self-rigtheous consciences drowning in nice feelings, in order to impose the Koranic order on the Western world itself."

Posted by: Zeno at September 30, 2006 2:42 AM

atheling:
Is Muhammad in fact a beast of prey with the mere head of a man, like the creature in Yeats' poem? Islam does often seem senselessly ferocious, as one might expect of a lion with only the head of a man, a lion with the cleverness of a man, but a blank cleverness yoked to devouring will.

...a blank gaze as pitiless as the sun. Is he now slouching toward Bethlehem to be born in some sense? That line too seems to resonate, as one looks about at current circumstances.

Posted by: traeh at September 30, 2006 2:43 AM

zeno:
Love thy neighbor as thyself is not just a Christian belief. It's a form of the "golden rule." Islam is one of the few religions that does not subscribe to it. Actually, orthodox Islam does apply the golden rule in a limited sense: to Muslims only. The golden rule is found in most traditions in some form or other.

Christianity also says be as clever as serpents. If the West followed that more adequately (not just the "harmless as doves" part), there would not be so many naive attitudes toward Islam.

Posted by: traeh at September 30, 2006 2:57 AM

Well, i am a muslim, and i do the prayers and the fast, which mean that i am "very muslim".. but let me tell you something, i have never read an invitation to violence inside the coran! maybe inside the interpretation of the muslims the violent ones, the coran even says, a man who kills a living soul or what ever being, without no law, he is as if a one who killed all the people on the Earth.. which mean that the jihadsits in the eyes of the coran are killers and criminals

more, during the brilliant period of the islamic "republique" .. there was many atheist, they where philosophers, scientists..etc and no body touched them.. so how we know about their writings in our days..

one more thing also, in islamic republique, there was christian, jews, and many other small sects.. all they lived in peace.. and with respect, and no body hurt them, i can tell that the catholics may killed and tortured peoples in the name of God, which we have never seen in islamic countries..

the problem, in what's happening in our days, is that we try to divulgate the reality, i dont know why, and to show the islam as a symbol of violence, which is not of its nature, but in the nature of some of his violent followers, who are not a real muslims in the eyes of a muslim like me!

any way, try ,dear readers, to read the coran, if you are interested, and to see your self how it ask people to do good things, and to be peaceful!
thanks,

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 3:04 AM

To Karma:
I respect your right to believe what you want. That's what differs me from your fellow muslims.
What is actually written in Quran doesn't matter a thing, but only what believe it's followers does matter and brings threat to us all, including you, wether you like it or not.

Posted by: Hell Awaits at September 30, 2006 3:14 AM

traeh:

It would seem so... I was really focused on the "the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity" verse in reference to Genevieve's comment that the Muslims are zealous and the West is apathetic.

Yet I would equate the pitiless gaze of the desert beast with Islam.

karma:

You practice crappy taqqiya.

Posted by: atheling at September 30, 2006 3:15 AM

The horrible thing about it all; it is a one-way street. Why is one religion/ideology more superior to others by the law and the media?

A muslim can threaten death; terror and beheading and not to mention all sorts of tortures to the infidel....yet no one says anything. Why? Yet reverse it and either a fine, jail, calls of being a bigot are sounded out. Not to mention the poor victim and all the suffering he/she has had to endure. Let's not forget the media either...

This is truly an upside down world. All should be treated EQUAL in the eyes of the law irregardless of ones faith/culture.

When will the leaders of the west stand up to these BULLIES?

Posted by: Suz at September 30, 2006 3:26 AM

I am deeply grieving for Mr. Redeker. Aside from being kept hidden from potential Muslim killers, the Republic that based its existence on reason is not doing anything against his opponents.

The French authorities are merely waiting for the storm to calm down and subsequently ignore him, like they did with Bat Ye'or and Anne Marie Delcambre.

Europe has lost the initiative. Now the initiative is in the hands of the Muslims and the European authorities are merely trying to patch up things as best as they can.

Posted by: rocky at September 30, 2006 3:53 AM

hmm, atheling , the taquia.. no i am not, because i told you that i am muslim, and more i am very muslim:)

well, let's remember and get back in the time, to see when the "jihadist" began to represent a horror for the occidentals.. it began first in afghanistan, when the USSR get into the country to occupy it, at that time the US governments had fed them (i mean afghan revolutionist against the occupation of their country by USSR) with weapons and arms.. because poor afghans had no money.. when the USSR failed and divided.. the US guys continued to feed the with arms, why i don't know!.. then suddenly they said that afgans are against US.. well, why only US and why not against the dictators and the governments of "arab" countries, who are lazy and not help their people, and not let the democracy take its place among the poor people.. i mean, if the jihadists were truly muslims, they should better try to help the poor people, and to take the power from the "arab" governments, and let the democracy take its place, as our ancestors did in the first days of islam..

my opinion is, there's a game here, the story is not convincing, the jihadists, there's someone who give them weapons who support them, and they need a lot of money to do what we see they are doing on the tv.. where's their money? in which banks?.. how they communicate, how do they arrange their attacks.. this is mystery..

thanks,

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 4:04 AM

karma:

Wrong. The Jihadists started in the 7th century.

Posted by: atheling at September 30, 2006 4:12 AM

I'd urge anyone to visit cities like Marseille, Toulouse, Lyon etc. Couple a months back I took the TGV train to Marseille, and it was as if stepped out a station too far and ended up in Tunis, Tunesia. French cities in the south are heavily colonized by North Africans, hence the islamization we are witnessing with all the bad things it brings.

Jan.

Posted by: Jan Vink at September 30, 2006 4:21 AM

LET'S KEEP IT REAL:

WHEN IN DOUBT - THROW THEM OUT!!!

Posted by: germaninamerica at September 30, 2006 5:05 AM

in this way, atheling , you treat all muslims as jihadists:) this is not true and we are not jihadist, the prophet said: the bigger jihad (to fight) is against your own self, to fight all the bad ideas, habits and to live honestly.. the "small" jihad is to go for the cause of God.

in fact muslims conquered first the arabia, but they did so because they became strong, i.e they have never committed suicid inside the arabia, they have fighted in real wars, not against weak people, and armless civil, but against strong fighters using the horses and the old war machinery, and like did Napoleon, the Romans, the Perses..etc.. don't tell me why they fight, i think this is nations nature, when they became more stronger, they wanted to have more earth, so they fighted against the Romans in palestine, syria, irak..etc during this, they have respected the old religions, i mean, the christians who choose to keep their faith, they were respected, they have never destructed a church or a synagogue.. or even a budha status..

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 6:09 AM

well, americaningermany , i know that this is anti-jihad site, but that does not mean you don't accept guests even those who do not agree with you, else you will be an extremist like your jihadists not mine, i told you they don't belong to islam, they do not practice islam like other pious muslims.

Also, let me tell you, in islamic web sites and especially arabic ones, as i know this language, there's many arab atheists who mock from the islam.. and nobody hurt them..

i guess if your myth of "jihadist" is real, they should bombe the atheist in their lands before the western countries;)

thanks,

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 6:18 AM

ok, you prove, americaningermany , that you are not open minded, so me too i don't care about what you say.. but to be honest, what you say make me sad! .. not because of you only, but because i see this narrow point of view everywhere, even in muslims .. which is bad for the people on the Earth.

thanks,

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 6:52 AM

"Another e-mail says: "You will never again be safe on this earth. One billion, 300 million Muslims are ready to kill you." "

So much for George W. Bush, Daniel Pipes and other apologists for Islam. Here we have a true portrayal of the number of jihadists on the earth. 1.3 billion.

Posted by: monk at September 30, 2006 6:58 AM

And so Europe heads further and further into the abyss that we fought so hard against during the second world war - that abyss called fascism - only last time the threat was from Hitler-Mussolini-Stalin and this time the threat comes from the Abdul-Mohammed-Rashid's of this world. The day draws nearer when ordinary Europeans (or at least those of us with eyes that can see and ears that can hear) will end up having to offer refuge and a safe hiding place in our homes to these new 'refugees' - the 'refugees' who in their own country speak their mind and are persecuted and forced to flee as a result. These are the true heroes of our time - the people who deserve the utmost respect for having the guts to say things as they are.

Posted by: I predict a riot at September 30, 2006 7:10 AM

Hi all,
According to "Hellenic Nexus" Magazine the albanian illegal migrants (who are moslems) in Greece are in possession of 300,000 AK type rifles and are ready in taking action when it will be needed.
Not only that, but according to the 'Defense & Foreign Affairs' Magazine (August issue), Turkey will invade northern Iraq in order to suppress the Kurds (and, of course, gain access to the Mosul petroleum sources) and at the same will attack Greece and Cyprus, in order to gain total control of the Eastern Mediterranean. So, the mongoloid mujahadins will start their campaigns from the East Europe. EUROPEANS, WAKE UP!!! BEWARE OF THE TROJAN HORSES THAT ARE CALLED ILLEGAL MIGRANTS!!!
See for more details:
http://noiri.blogspot.com/2006/08/special-analysis-defense-foreign.html

Posted by: AllahIsDead at September 30, 2006 7:33 AM

sure i watch the news, and in my writings i am trying to give you how an "ordinary" muslim see the things, and the events..

for the 11 september, till now there's many ambiguity around the whole story, first i don't know how can you imagine a person who had just some manuals and guides of how to pilot a plane can take it, and go on.. even more how he or they were able to control the direction of the plane, notice that they were in a far distance from the place of the "crime".. a professional pilot need in general to communicate a lot with the base in order to have a clear idea about the air, and the directions.. other thing, they said they found arabic manuals of how to pilot a plan in their stuffs.. which is confusing, a person who had studied in the US and live there, in general, has no need to read in arabic, even it's not accurate to write technical stuff in arabic :).. i am sorry for those innocents, but on the other hand, please do not forget the poor civil irakis who suffer from the war on their land, and the palestenian, or lebaneese, chechan.. and many others.. not only your homeland suffer, others also, but no body care!

for the russian, the chechen are nationalist, the russian do not let them rule their country by them self, they occupy it.. they have the islam identity, so the media love to call them "jihadist", which is not the case of the pasque, the corses, or the irish, which we call them "natinalist" or "separatist" ;).. if you are muslim and fight you are jihadist, else you are some one who fight for his freedom .. strange no?!

Posted by: karma at September 30, 2006 7:46 AM

The Muslim mind is a big-baby mind (throwing tantrums, lack of reason, treating belief as fact, etc.) and is the very opposite of the mind of a man such as Voltaire. I'm sure Voltaire is watching all of this from the next world with his keen eye and sharp mind. With his great wit he would poke fun at affluent Arabia that has not one great university, but plenty of schools to cripple minds and roasts girls (2002)because they were not wearing veils to cover their faces, he would laugh at a Muslim world that produces less new science than tiny Israel, that must subsist (like a parasites) via intellectual jizya from the creative minds and inventions of the non-Muslim world. Voltaire would laugh at this intellectual wasteland that desires to brink their demented mind to the whole world-and thinks it's a gift from God.

Someday, in the not so distant future, the world will laugh at this superstition that was once taken seriously. Voltaire will prevail.

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 7:49 AM

Karma said:
>>the christians who choose to keep their faith, they were respected, they have never
>>destructed a church or a synagogue.. or even a budha status..

Are you joking? Take a look at the link below

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5C75FA08-95CE-48CE-8ACA-AE6AFE6F0B8E.htm

They’ve burned 5 Christian Greek-Orthodox churches (that predate the birth of the sick religion designed by your sick perverted prophet aka Muhammad The Pedophile). And they were burned for what the Pope has recently said. This is the Relegion of Peace(TM)????? They burned the wrong dogma churches just for burning someone or something. Like all the barbarians did in the past!

Posted by: AllahIsDead at September 30, 2006 7:57 AM

I can just imagine what Voltaire would do with the character of billionaire Osama bin Demented. Instead of founding schools dedicated to free minds, to development of science, of great medical breakthroughs, bin Demented considers it a good thing to kill the creators of the kidney dialysis machines that keep him alive. Yes indeed, we see the march of the demented, the rage of the childish, the inventors of fatwas, and since they produce less new ideas, new science, than "apes and pigs"-what does that make Muslims? Less than "apes and pigs"?

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 8:05 AM

What will amaze people in the not very distant future will be how people in our time ever took this Islamic superstition seriously, even accommodated it. Islam is a Salem Witch hunt gone global.

Why does anyone have to accommodate a belief-system because it is called a "religion"? Are we not superstitious for doing so? Muslim infantile-rage is a spectacle of silly men in religious costumes peddling and demanding a demented non-scientific point of view, throwing tantrums. When people see other people as "apes and pigs" is that not superstition? Is that not mental illness? These silly inventors of fatwas want to kill people who invent cell-phones. Why are we taking this belief-system seriously? We too must face reality and stop being superstitious.

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 9:02 AM

Karma said:

one more thing also, in islamic republique, there was christian, jews, and many other small sects.. all they lived in peace.. and with respect, and no body hurt them,

END OF CITE

Have you noticed the general approach to things in this modest muslim? Let the world become an islamic republic and we will allow you keep to your petty old religions and small sects.
Well, you WILL NOT HAVE MY WORLD, Karma.
By the way, take a look at the pictures

http://beslan-2004.front.ru/
http://0911.rambler.ru/db/911/

and do not forget Budenovsk and Moscow.
Why muslims choose a children's hospital as a target? Why that Sumir Cuntar (oops, Kuntar) choose a family with small children as target? Why not go and assault a military base? I tell you why -- there are big tough guys with arms there. And children basicaly do not possess fire arms.

Posted by: Hell Awaits at September 30, 2006 9:06 AM

Voltaire might say: Frank has it right. Islam is just another damn superstition and the human race has had its mind shackled by this nonsense for too long. Non-Muslims are superstitious if they give accommodation or tolerance to something because it is called "religion". It is superstition. Stop being concerned about sensitivity to childishness and tantrums, to silly men barking about Superstitionphobia. That's not rational. God made your minds to reason, to question, and not be silent just because self-serving clowns in religious costumes and hats call something "religion". Some of them are laughing at your superstition.

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 9:35 AM

From American in Germany,

"I'm all for the U.S. and allies to pull OUT of the Middle East and leave them to fight their own bloody wars and kill themselves off. The sooner, the better.

I'm tired of seeing my countrymen wasting their lives, time and money on ungrateful thugs who know nothing of a democracy and don't want it anyway.
It's like throwing pearls to swines. They don't and won't appreciate anything."

Perfectly summed up.

Get out.

Waste of good money and even more valuable lives.

All those leaders who thought it a good idea? Well, the Romans had a way of dealing with incompetency within the ranks.

BUT we're digressing.

From now on, I vow to name my newborn son, "Robert", with a middle name of "Redeker".

There. Damn all good THAT did, the bastards have still won, and I fear that Europe is lost.

FUCK.

Posted by: ewha1 at September 30, 2006 10:12 AM

Karma...........

lol lol lol

Expert on September 11 as well huh?

let me guess.........."the zionists did it"??????

Posted by: W_D_J_D at September 30, 2006 10:22 AM

Monty Python. Kafka. You have nothing on reality. NOTHING.

"A philosophy teacher today described how he was forced into hiding after a newspaper article in which he attacked Islam provoked death threats against himself and his family.
Robert Redeker, 52, from Toulouse in south-west France, is receiving round-the-clock police protection and changing addresses every two days, after publishing an article describing the Koran as a "book of extraordinary violence" and Islam as "a religion which ... exalts violence and hate"."

Yes, I know we've done it to death, but, as we slowly sink beneath the waves, I think we have the right to mock oursleves.

Our beloved Paedo Worshippers ( Peace Be Unto Them )are going to KILL us for suggesting that they may, just may, be VIOLENT.

THERE. It wasn't too bad.

Posted by: ewha1 at September 30, 2006 10:26 AM

Karma is demented or a phony pretending to be a Muslim. If he is for real, then his type are killing the Africans in Darfur and he would like to see that done to Israel. However, Israel may be the karma of the Muslim Mideast for the genocide in the Sudan. The Muslim Mideast has bad karma.

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 10:34 AM

A manual trackback to my own take.

Posted by: dan tdaxp at September 30, 2006 12:04 PM

"Pierre Rousselin, the editor in chief of Le Figaro, apologized on Al-jazeera for the publication of the [Redeker] article. A number of Islamic countries, including Egypt, banned Le Figaro following the publication of Redeker’s piece. Mr Rousselin said the publication of the op-ed was a mistake. He said the article did not express the paper’s opinion. The article is no longer available on the Figaro website."

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006015.htm

Posted by: remote_control at September 30, 2006 12:07 PM

Karma -

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but why are all terrorists Muslims? Because of the Koran!

I don't know what translation you possess of this "holy" book, or what pages you have possibly torn out to satisfy your claim that there are "no invitations to violence", but let me tell me, the Koran IS in fact a book of violence.

I have read these passages myself, and so have many other posters here on JW. The Pope has read these violent passages, and so has this teacher, Robert Redeker. Are you saying that the Pope is wrong? Are you saying that Mr. Redeker is wrong?

Snap out of it, man!

You sound like a very nice, but very naive Muslim who wishes to protray his religion as peaceful so you can remain in your comfort zone; because if you were honest with yourself about what you have chosen to block out, then you would abandon Islam for true peace. Maybe you aren't quite ready to do that?

But do it!

Posted by: champ at September 30, 2006 1:11 PM

Karma ought to give karma sutra and piece a chance. It's a lot better than killing people.

http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/nektar/kma/main.htm

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 1:35 PM

Frank -- now that's what I call tacky! There are other websites that would welcome your brand of humor about sex.

Posted by: champ at September 30, 2006 1:50 PM

Karma
the coran even says, a man who kills a living soul or what ever being, without no law, he is as if a one who killed all the people on the Earth.. which mean that the jihadsits in the eyes of the coran are killers and criminals

Many here are aware of this extract of the koranic you quote,explain to us why you wrote this extract out of context

The full verse is

Al-Maidah 5-32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Al-Maidah 5-33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

Not so peace-ful,considering talking against Mohammed or Allah is regarded as spreading mischief in the land

May-be we should start applying the same laws upon muslims who spread mischief in our land,and start execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.

We are peace-ful infidels but We ordain for Muslims and the children of Islam that if anyone slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life,it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with Clear Signs, Yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

The punishment of those who wage war against the West and Democracy,and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion,or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter

Posted by: shiva at September 30, 2006 2:10 PM

There are many points for discussion in the above:

1. Catholicism is not Totalitarianism. The Inquisition is constantly misrepresented by those who hate the Catholic Church. The truth is in some cases, if it had not been for the Inquisitors, innocent people would have been lynched by the townspeople.

2. Something interesting that I noted in the discussion makes me think that some Muslims are guilty of Dualism. This is the same as the heresy of the Cathars, as well as the Manichees. God is not a God of Good and Evil. Satan alone is responsible for evil. Our God, the one followed by Jews and Christians alike is a God of Justice, Mercy, Love and Forgiveness. The God of Islam is the direct opposite, but that God is based upon Mohammed's perceptions of God. (say no more) Mohammed is a false prophet and he is the Antichrist.

3. The third point is that there are many who neither understand Christianity of Judaism. The precepts of Judaism are there to prevent sin, but with so many rules it is hard not to sin. On the whole, Judadism does not and never has advocated violence against others. The Scriptures do now show Jews going around acting insulted, demanding apologies and being determined to kill those who do not follow Judaism. Contrary to what Pong (I think it was) who claimed that Judaism was not meant to be spread, I would say that the person is ignorant with regard to the later chapters of the prophet Isaiah. The Chosen People were meant to be an example to the nations. They failed their mission.

4. Jesus did not advocate violence. He prevented the Apostles from having weapons and told them that they were not to take weapons on their missionary journeys. Someone who has read the Acts of the Apostles can read of the hazards faced by the Apostles, and especially those faced by St. Paul (the former Pharisee who was converted on the road to Damascus). St. Paul, the former student of Gamaliel spoke by using faith and reason, and he did win many converts, despite being thought of as a fool by many of the Gentiles.

Robert Redeker was brave to speak out, and the French Government should stop behaving like castrated eunuchs and start the process of expelling Muslims from those areas where they have built their enclaves.

5. It is disappointing to hear that Le Figaro apologised to the sleezebags, dogs and pigs.

Posted by: Maggie4Life at September 30, 2006 6:24 PM

Thanks Henry. Hopefully more readers/posters will take a closer look at Islam and realize that this is not a religion -- but that it's a new breed of communism birthed straight from the pit of hell.

Posted by: champ at September 30, 2006 6:35 PM

Jesus did not want his "followers" to act in a violent manor. Jesus said, "Vengeance is mine", and one day He will judge this world with a vengeance -- so I agree with you in part, Maggie4Life.

Posted by: champ at September 30, 2006 6:40 PM

champ-

I'm certain we are the same wave length on these matters. Folks like us are a little too human for this world.

Posted by: Frank at September 30, 2006 6:54 PM

"Jesus did not want his "followers" to act in a violent manor."

Not even in his "Father's house" where there "are many mansions..." (John 14:2).

Posted by: remote_control at September 30, 2006 7:24 PM

americaningermany

All other posters - except Karma

Very good post. I’m not very good with words, but you expressed very well how I look at this subject. Speaking for myself, when I was first aware of Muslims, I viewed them with an open mind - hear that Karma. As time went by there was terrible crimes committed by certain people who turned out to be - Muslims. As americaningermany pointed out these criminal acts were inflicted all over the world by - Muslims. My mind started to close up - become narrow. Then the cutting off heads, teaching children seething hate and blowing up their own innocent citizens by - Muslims. The list goes on. Where is the outrage and efforts to put a stop to this madness from the Muslim world. There is none that I can see. All I see is whining and crying because sane people who have freedom of speech states the facts. That’s not good enough - now the Muslims want to take that freedom among others, away. So, what evidence do I have but to believe Muslims are the curse and scum of the earth.
americaningermany: Wouldn’t it be wonderful for Trolls such as Karma to sit back with an open mind and observe the macabre crimes done by evil jihadist criminals and realize what is going on. If the Muslims want to murder, bomb and kill their own people in their own country, I would think that is their own business. However, when they commit these crimes in every country including mine with the purpose of taking over, that’s when I have developed a closed mind. There - I’ve said as honestly it as honestly as I know how.

Posted by: THSIMJ at September 30, 2006 11:51 PM

mohammed was a child rapper

Posted by: Bassman at October 1, 2006 1:06 AM

Hey Frank -- I guess I misunderstood.

Bassman -- yeah he was! And a false prophet on top of it. Oh -- and lets not forget murderer, master manipulator, liar and delusion (probably from all the opium he used). What am I forgetting?

Posted by: champ at October 1, 2006 2:31 AM

Champ,

you are right, the Lord said "Vengeance is mine", but that does not mean that Jesus was advocating violence in this world ;-)

If one studies the Historical background to the Scriptures, a picture emerges of a lot of wars, not so much with Israel and Judea being the aggressors, but they were often the victim of the aggression of others e.g. the Persians, Syrians (Arameans)Edomites, Assyrians, Philistines and Babylonians, and then by the Greeks. The Romans were invited to Jerusalem but once they had arrived Jerusalem was under the control of Caesar.

The period of the invasions by the Assyrians and then the Babylonians is the background to the writings from several of the prophets. It was a period of shame in Israel and Judea because the people had been led astray and had started sacrificing to false gods, including Astarte. They even went as far as sacrificing their children. This is the background as to why the Lord allowed the Assyrians to overrun Israel and deport the people into the Diaspora. The Judeans lasted a little longer before they ended up in exile in Babylon. Even so, a small minority of the people were allowed to stay in Jerusalem.

A good case can be made for God using the wicked as a means of chastising His own. I certainly think that this is a process that has continued throughout time.

I do believe that the Islamofacist dogs will be defeated in the long term, and I do think that some of the pain that is being inflicted upon non-Muslims has been allowed to happen because of our seriously deadly sins. The west has been turning its back on Christianity. I belong to the Catholic Church, and I am proud to be a Catholic. I am also proud to be politically incorrect so that I can call a spade a spade. In fact I get annoyed when I hear people trying to stifle argument with such gems as "you are not being tolerant", if I express my opinion. That to me is garbage, since I am entitled to hold an opinion that is not so tolerant to those who are violent.

It is very hard trying to convince the politically correct amongst the Catholic faithful that Muslims who kill others by blowing themselves up will be counted among the wicked and not amongst the saints in heaven. The question that is raised is whether or not Muslims who have been brainwashed are responsible for their actions. Well, I happen to think that the majority of these Muslims are indeed responsible for their actions and when they come before God, they will find that their version of God as Allah was a chameleon. I think that I finally got a clue today when I realised that Karma thinks of Allah in the Dualist fashion. What karma said was like a wake up call. Theere are just too many heresies bound up in Islam to ever contemplate deserting God and agreeing to become Muslim. Islam is extremely perverted, just as the founder was perverted.

The vengeance that belongs to the Lord will be felt on the Judgement Day, when we are all brought before the Lord, and will know our final fate for certain. I maintain that those who are wicked, such as Osama Bin Laden will not be found amongst the saved. I do not necessarily subscribe to the idea that a deathbed conversion in sufficient for one who is wicked and has committed Mass murder. However, if such a conversion took place, then it would be up to God to make the choice regarding whether or not that 11th hour conversion has led to salvation. I think that for the 11th hour conversion to be sincere the person has to admit to the crime of the murder of a countless number of innocents.

What bothers me, and I am not American, is that the West, led by the USA has indulged in the killing of millions of infants in the womb. That killing has now extended to the elderly and the disabled. Perhaps some of the terror that is being experienced is meant to be a worning sign indicating that people need to repent of the murder that they have committed, whether it be murder in the womb or in the case of (b) "It is time for granny to go to heave", type attitude has indeed crept in and seems to have swallowed up the sensibilities of the alleged Christians and Jews who think that such things are acceptable before God.

Whilst I do not doubt that Muslims do believe in God, I do think that a great case can be made that the they do in fact worship a false god.

Posted by: Maggie4Life at October 1, 2006 5:54 AM

Just out of curiosity... when was the last time the papers were full of, say, buddists...or Sikhs...or Mormons acting like a pack of rabid dogs? frothing at the mouth and demanding death to someone who mad a factually accurate observation, not to mention wanting to murder their innocent families ? {not that innocence means anything to these sub-humans}.
Is it my imagination that this sort of psychopathic behaviour comes mainly from one "religion"?

Posted by: stdp1 at October 1, 2006 6:54 AM

Maggie4Life -

Absolutely! Jesus was not advocating violence in the world. But Jesus is not totally against it either, and scripture supports that view. He states that He will "wage war" in the Book of Revelation at His second coming (read Revelation).

And in other scriptures Jesus states that "kings and rulers have to the power to wage war", when defending our borders becomes necessary. Most people don't know this about Jesus, but He does supports our government to wage war should the need arise.

Posted by: champ at October 1, 2006 12:45 PM

Dear all,

Frank : you have right, muslim countries are now in the bottom, but don't forget how they were, there's 600 years ago.. everyone knows that they excelled in mathematics, astronomy, and chemistry.. in philosophy also, they have studied and commented the works of greeks old and great scientists..

now they are weak, there's many reasons i can not and i don't know all of them, but i see that it comes first from them, i mean muslims..they cannot understand that they have no "republic" .. they can not read the coran differently, i mean they can not interpret it without looking back to how our ancestors interpreted it, they have a rigid view of their religion, which weakened it, and i think this is not only the problem of islam, but also all other religions, like the christianity, and judaism.. now can you imagine a scripture from more than 3000 years promising an old people to have a holy land, how can you imagine, that this people exist till our days, and return back to have his land confusing no!:).. this is israel, that you are talking about, Frank, israel is created by the europeans; it was just right after the crimes committed by the europeans against the jews (by the way the jews were living in peace and very honored in muslim countries, and even when the new laic governments take the power, they were always respected) then israel has grown as a country on the "ruins" of a whole nation, the palestinians, those poor, were forced to leave their lands, later all the israeli governments were not based on religious principles, they do not respect the torah, or God laws, and more they kill people, they have money, from where, very easy from european nations who think they erase their errors while the 1945 and during all the past where all small sects and the jews communities suffered in europe!

to AllahIsDead :) .. (it makes me smile) anyway, we have never ever in the past seen a church or whatever temple or a status or .. burned or crashed or .. i tell you, when the islamic "republic" had the power, muslims respected all the minorities, by this mean, i don't tell you that i am for the islamic republic in our days, no.. never, what i say that in the past, the first muslims, they were pious and became strong, they started to occupy other's lands..and we can not re-live the past in our days, now things changed.. the religion is not the way to rule people, it's now something very personal, we live in society of multiple communities.. multiple faiths.. they "SHOULD" live in peace, in respect.. this does not mean to stop the "caricatures" or to restrict someone to analyse others faiths and even to critic it.. we need this different view, this help everyone to look at his self, to pay attention to his errors, because if we leave the religious all together without outer effects they become "rigid" which is the case of all religions in our days..

the events of burning churches is recent, burning mosques also in india is recent.. someone is working behind this, cause people in those lands lived always in peace, so why very recently they noticed their difference!!! and they started to fight !

To americaningermany, i am not apologizing, if so you should apologize as a german, the holocost of jews!.. and the sapin should apologize the "massacre" of original indians in the new world..
now for the russians.. and chechen, they are in war, so from the two sides we will see civil who suffer.. i would like to pay your attention to a point, every body talk about those childs, but no one talk about how the chechen there's 90 years or more were forced to leave their lands, they walked.. walked to turkey, they arrived then to syria, jordan, irak.. they were welcomed everwhere, the same, exactly the same happened to the armenians (who are chrisitian).. they left their land and came to syria, irak, jordan, lebanon.. they were also welcomed and lived there.. and they are both the chechen and the armenian very loved by the people there!! please try to see things as they are, not as you see them in the news:(, i mean go to the people in irak, jordan, syria and ask them..ask the chechen and the armenian there also..

Hell Awaits , i repeat, islamic republic is a myth in our days, me as a very muslim, i don't agree with it for our days.. we need a laic systems. well, in most "arab" countries there's laic constitution.. what you want more..

To Champ, wrong, there's many non muslim terrorist.. many examples.. the genocide of palestienians, of indians, of jews, of heretics in europe.. the slaves trade..etc
this is terror no!

and what peace you are talking about ; i am very happy because i am muslim:).. but what makes me unhappy is to see muslims of our days, lake of knowledge, lake of flexibility, lake of patience.. and i could say, in the eyes of the true islam, most of them, they are not muslims.. because islam asked them via the coran, and the prophet to do the "bigger jihad which is to developpe his self, to get rid of bad things the human may have to learn and to strudy, to work hard, but they don't hear it, they do the "small" jihad which they are only asked for in case of they are strong, and in case they have a republic, which is not the case in our days.. the jihad is new.. very new.. its support does not come from the inside, but from the outside.. from where no idea..wag the dog; is a good example it could let you know how media can affect everybody..

Shiva, nice to put the whole text, but let me tell you, it's not the whole text also, you have also extracted it from the whole context of the coran.. sure if you take this verses, you will say;;; oh what a violent book, it's exactly when you take from the new testament, some call for violence from the mouth of jesus.. it's not faire to do this.. so wether you read the whole book.. the whole, and say what you understand.. or you do not extract a small text out of its context.. you know this is not easy.. but in order to let the muslims understans others and others to understand muslims.. they should read and understand each other.. for me i have followed the coran, when God asked us to get back to the ancient scriptures of christian and jews.. so now i do respect them.. even i don't agree with many of their ideas.. but i should respect them.. but in case they, or whatever else try to kill me because i am muslim, or try to force me to do things against my islam.. i should resist.. i guess this is the idea of anyone believe in something that he sees his peace in it.

for the second verse, muslims could do so for those who make bad things against God and the law the messenger transmitted, this is like what any country do to people who do bad things against their laws.. now what are those bad things.. it's not democracy, it's not the science and the developpement, it's not being european or american, it's not having a certain belief.. it's against those who do bad things.. like criminals, theifs.. like distributing bad drogues, in few words, those who work to destruct the society and the republic! i guess the law in every country try to stop this kind of bad acts.. in islam there's not only one way to get rid of those bad persons.. you can choose your way ;).. i think in our days the best is to exile them from the land :) and to send them to europe and US :)

to THSIMJ, i told that the jihadists are not "real" muslims.. they are almost a gang of leased persons.. programmed to kill there self.. they have a lot of money to do what they are doing.. from where they get money?!

champ, again; when you talk about opium that mean you see islam like the days of crusade..

jesus is not like those of the crusade.. he is great.. but some of his followers are not very different from the jihadists .

Maggie4Life, we do worship God, which is described in our book exactly the same as your God in the Bible, and we says that he is unique, you too say the same.. then there's good probability for the two "images" of God to be talking about the same God :) in any case muslims think so; but western christians no, why i don't know.. notice that oriental christians believe that it's the same God :)

I think we still have time to remember, and to understand each other.. in order to have good life all together on our lovely Earth..

Peace..

p.s i am not a religion man; i am an ordinary person working in a technical field.. i have not great knowledge..i am just a reader of the coran.. i am a simple muslim like 99.9% of muslims in our days :/

Posted by: karma at October 2, 2006 5:40 AM

karma -

I wasn't saying that the ONLY terrorists are Muslims -- but that the MAJORITY of terrorists are Muslims. Think about it, any terrorist attack of significance that currently impacts our world was done by Muslims.

And Mohammad was not a great man -- unlike Jesus who was not only a great man, but He was God in the flesh. Jesus said that falsp prophets would come after Him, and sure enough, that's who Mohammad was -- a false prophet.

Opium was very widely used back in Mohammad's day as it was not illegal and easily obtained back then. Mohammad was delusional, and delusions are generally brought on by drug use. Mohammad also had hallucinations; that were probably brought on by drug use. That's why I referrenced opium as his drug of choice.

You need to examine this man, Mohammad, a little more closely, karma. There is no way you can honestly say that Mo was a righteous man when you consider how he lived and how treated other people/cultures.

Posted by: champ at October 2, 2006 11:48 AM

Karma -
The bottomline...Did Muhammad as the role model for all Muslims endorse the use of violence? Did he direct his followers to kill others that did not believe in his faith?

We all know the answers to these questions, don't we?

Now, here's what you need to ask yourself... "Does the core of my being tremble at the thought of following a religion founded and entirely based upon a single man who claimed no divinity, served as the religion's sole messenger, and promoted violence to further that religion?" Ask yourself this question just as you are about to dose off tonight and mull it over in your dreams. Whether you want to or not, you will now. It should scare the Hell out of you!!!

Humanity's (not just the western world's) fight is with Islam, not the so-called extremists, islamists, etc. for they are simply fueled by the Koran and haddith.

Posted by: thetruthskr at October 2, 2006 7:43 PM